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  #241  
Old 09-13-2015, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog-One View Post
The presenter is TinselKoala. No mistaking that voice and delivery.
I don't like that guys way of handling things. Thanks for the heads

up Dog

Quote:
Originally Posted by lorinrandone View Post
Thanks Mikey.
Much remains to be done. Hopefully not leave us Ufopolitics. He is the real motor that drives us forward
Regard. cristian
Yes I agree Cristian

UFO has a big heart, that is why he has so much going for himself

he is looking at sharing all of the time. He needs to rest up and most

of all he won't just talk all of the time till he is sure. He is doing testing.

Mikey
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  #242  
Old 09-13-2015, 08:46 AM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
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I believe that video OF Tinsels was taken down for a reason

Its a teaching video of sorts [I will clarify that with a query to him today at the other forum .
respectfully
Chet
Edit
here is the answer from Tinsel

Quote


I'm in no mood to discuss trivia at the moment... I just read Mark Dansie's report about MarkE.

I can tell you these things:

The device was originally designed by Overconfident, who died of a brain tumor (malignant melanoma) several years ago.
The video was put up on YouTube to prove a point to Omnibus and was taken down after only being up for 27 minutes, as soon as Omnibus had seen it.
All copies of the video available on YT are unauthorized, plagiarized and many have been altered in various ways. Someone copied it without permission in the 27 minutes it was up and reposted it and it's all downhill from there.

The device is now lost, but you know where it may be (even if you don't realize it).

Teaching? Yes, undoubtedly. Did anyone learn anything from it? I certainly did.
"If what you think you are seeing appears to violate some physical law or principle, examine your assumptions...."

Out of respect for the memory of Overconfident, I really don't want to discuss it further. It was done to death back in the day, anyhow.

end quote

I believe it was not a true event which was witnessed in the video ,I recall air or some other "assist" as a lesson to "the Buss" {member omnibus]
at OU.Com ,that is the reason for the poor lighting and "untypical [of Tinsels vids] focus and no panning of the area around the motor.

also to add it is sad to read of the passing of member Mark E
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  #243  
Old 09-13-2015, 10:44 AM
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lorinrandone lorinrandone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
I don't like that guys way of handling things. Thanks for the heads

up Dog



Yes I agree Cristian

UFO has a big heart, that is why he has so much going for himself

he is looking at sharing all of the time. He needs to rest up and most

of all he won't just talk all of the time till he is sure. He is doing testing.

Mikey

I appreciate what makes Tinsel Koala. It is a cerebral guy

-Ufo, sure this testing before stating something
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  #244  
Old 09-13-2015, 10:59 PM
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Progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post
...One last thing. Start thinking in three dimensions and give the “transition point” between the ramp and magnet some thought.
Mack

For my ramps, I am focusing more thought on attraction rather than polarity. Not that I am totally ignoring polarity, I'm not, but my ramps will be/are trapezoidal.
Good Luck,
Randy
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  #245  
Old 09-14-2015, 12:22 AM
Stealth Stealth is offline
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The major difference I can see is the orientation of the magnets. Two polarities and two polarity of ramps. Remember, everything in balance. North magnet and north ramp, south magnet and south ramp. Each ramp needs a slot to adjust the position to compensate for the magnet and ramp inbalancies. Using tow ramps and two magnets more than doubles the power. You can use ramps on each side of the magnets or on the top and bottom. The ramps create the gate for the magnets. When I have time I will make a diagram on my cad and post it. Good Luck. stealth
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  #246  
Old 09-14-2015, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
The major difference I can see is the orientation of the magnets. Two polarities and two polarity of ramps. Remember, everything in balance. North magnet and north ramp, south magnet and south ramp. Each ramp needs a slot to adjust the position to compensate for the magnet and ramp inbalancies. Using tow ramps and two magnets more than doubles the power. You can use ramps on each side of the magnets or on the top and bottom. The ramps create the gate for the magnets. When I have time I will make a diagram on my cad and post it. Good Luck. stealth
Thanks @Stealth,
That would be great. I think I understand what you are saying, but a picture/drawing would be enough to be sure. We all communicate a bit different and I have totally misinterpreted someone's description before. I think I agree with you to a point, but I need to see what you are speaking of to be sure.
Respectfully,
Randy
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  #247  
Old 09-14-2015, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
The major difference I can see is the orientation of the magnets. Two polarities and two polarity of ramps. Remember, everything in balance. North magnet and north ramp, south magnet and south ramp. Each ramp needs a slot to adjust the position to compensate for the magnet and ramp inbalancies. Using tow ramps and two magnets more than doubles the power. You can use ramps on each side of the magnets or on the top and bottom. The ramps create the gate for the magnets. When I have time I will make a diagram on my cad and post it. Good Luck. stealth

I think you have reason to put ramps up and down the magnets. I did some tests with a ferrite core U-shaped, and I found that the effect is much more relevant.
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  #248  
Old 09-14-2015, 03:21 PM
MadMack MadMack is offline
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Regarding the relationship between a rotor magnet and a ramp+stator magnet, resulting in the rotational force actually applied to the rotor, the key is the manipulation and directing of the forces available.

Magnetic attraction or repulsion is a force.
Identify when, where, and the direction of, the force(s) in operation between the ramp and magnets. Manipulate the physical construction of the ramp to make the forces work in your favor. The ramp is more than a curved piece of rectangular iron.

Food for thought:
1 force cosine 0 degrees = 1 force
1 force cosine 90 degrees = 0 force

If you would like to have a refresher on “Determining the Components of a Vector” see
Resolution of Forces

Mack
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  #249  
Old 09-14-2015, 04:22 PM
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Yeah!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post
Regarding the relationship between a rotor magnet and a ramp+stator magnet, resulting in the rotational force actually applied to the rotor, the key is the manipulation and directing of the forces available.

Magnetic attraction or repulsion is a force.
Identify when, where, and the direction of, the force(s) in operation between the ramp and magnets. Manipulate the physical construction of the ramp to make the forces work in your favor. The ramp is more than a curved piece of rectangular iron.

Food for thought:
1 force cosine 0 degrees = 1 force
1 force cosine 90 degrees = 0 force

If you would like to have a refresher on “Determining the Components of a Vector” see
Resolution of Forces

Mack
Thanks for that Mack. It is the direction I have been moving. It has been my thought process that with the polarity in balance you must have another force to cause the rotation. That of inductive attraction, not polarity. If it was strictly polarity, you would have balance, an equal push and pull. Not a formula for movement.

Mack: If this device has been built with some really good bearings and very little frictional loss, is there a danger of runaway? Or does this device, like a electric motor, reach a peak rpm based on some resonance point? I have to believe the later.

While I have the basic unit built, I decided it was more important to understand the geometrical relationships involved in magnetic induction and have built a number of test jigs to further that study. Most surprising from the dogma we have been taught since childhood. I am nearly ready to start testing acceleration.

Ufopolitics: Centrifugal forces are definitely at work here. On all sides .

Take Care,
Randy
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  #250  
Old 09-14-2015, 08:24 PM
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Thanks Mack
Resolution of Forces






I will refresh my "Vectors"



Vector Analysis Study Simplified



SOH,CAH,TOA.

A way of remembering how to compute the sine, cosine, and tangent

of an angle.


A way of remembering how to compute the sine, cosine, and tangent of an angle.

SOH stands for Sine equals Opposite over Hypotenuse.

CAH stands for Cosine equals Adjacent over Hypotenuse.

TOA stands for Tangent equals Opposite over Adjacent.


Mathwords: SOHCAHTOA


How to Use SohCahToa to Find the Trig Functions of a Right Triangle - For Dummies



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  #251  
Old 09-15-2015, 02:58 AM
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Hello Magnet motor mad men.

Here is a diagram that I am not sure is correct.

What has been pointed out is that we first determine the amount

of force of the traveling magnet by vector.

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  #252  
Old 09-15-2015, 04:35 PM
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Thinking 3D...Mack

Hello to All,

Sorry guys, I have been very busy...

But, ever since Mack gave Us the below post...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post

[...]

One last thing. Start thinking in three dimensions and give the “transition point” between the ramp and magnet some thought.

Mack
I stopped doing all this 2D CAD images...swapped program to a much expensive one...(MAYA) and really started "thinking" and building in 3D Models (I can animate it as well)...changes that could be done...plus all advantages that doing so could bring Us...

I can see the whole picture now...better balancing between Modules...plus, a more effective way to "project" Ramps Induced Poles into the Rotor Magnets (180º straight line)

But here they are sharing them with you all.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]



Like I wrote on the first image on top...it is better to imagine the angles between Planes...and not through Axes. (it tends to confusion)

The Ramps could easily be redirecting Stators Polarity to face Rotor Magnets at a very effective straight angle...in favor of rotation of course...


Regards


Ufopolitics

EDIT 1: Actually, if you've all noticed, the only change done here...is to adjust the Rotor Magnets based on their Y Axis...to about 30º inclination, while keeping the original 30º from our previous 2D Diagrams, as recommended by Mack.

Only thing is...that when we do this...then the third plane also gets inclined as well.
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  #253  
Old 09-15-2015, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorinrandone View Post
Ufo gracias. Propongo personalmente a los demas, la version de 4 polos. Es la forma mas sencilla que se puede llamar motor y que permite un ajuste bastante bueno para lograr el balanceo.Es mi opinion. Desde ahi , una vez conseguido,ya se puede pensar en añadir mas polos.De todos modos yo voy a construir un rotor de mayor diametro, porque noto una insuficiencia en hacer las pruebas con el. Si me recordó bien, MadMack recomienda construir un rotor amplio.
Atentamente. cristian

Translation:

Ufo Thanks,

I propose the four poles version, it is the easiest set up that could be called motor and allows a very good adjustment to achieve balance. Is just my opinion. Anyways I will make a rotor of bigger diameter, 'cause I feel too limited to make tests, I remember that Mack recommends to make a big rotor.

Regards,

Cristian


Hola Cristian,

Gracias, pero Mack escribió antes que el mínimo número de imanes en un rotor es de Seis (6) en su diseño.

Cuatro polos es demasiado ancho el espacio para las rampas (90º)...y recuerda que rampas muy largas tienen un recorrido muy corto, y no puedes adicionar alto torque.

Saludos


Ufopolitics

My answer translated:


Thanks, but remember Mack wrote that Six(6) is the Minimum number of poles in his design.

Four Poles is too much of a gap for ramps (90º), and remember that longer ramps will pivot much less, therefore, can't add much torque.


MadMack's Posts related to minimum six poles:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post

One set of magnets every 45 degrees works well. Magnets at 0, 90, 180, and 270 degrees in attraction. Magnets at 45, 135, 225, and 315 degrees in repulsion. This balances the side forces to the rotor shaft and stator housing. Magnet pairs every 60 degrees will also work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post

Did you use the same number of magnets as in the Bedini picture on the rotor?
No. The least was 6. The rotors diameter has a direct bearing on the output torque.
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  #254  
Old 09-15-2015, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Translation:

Ufo Thanks,

I propose the four poles version, it is the easiest set up that could be called motor and allows a very good adjustment to achieve balance. Is just my opinion. Anyways I will make a rotor of bigger diameter, 'cause I feel too limited to make tests, I remember that Mack recommends to make a big rotor.

Regards,

Cristian


Hola Cristian,

Gracias, pero Mack escribió antes que el mínimo número de imanes en un rotor es de Seis (6) en su diseño.

Cuatro polos es demasiado ancho el espacio para las rampas (90º)...y recuerda que rampas muy largas tienen un recorrido muy corto, y no puedes adicionar alto torque.

Saludos


Ufopolitics

My answer translated:


Thanks, but remember Mack wrote that Six(6) is the Minimum number of poles in his design.

Four Poles is too much of a gap for ramps (90º), and remember that longer ramps will pivot much less, therefore, can't add much torque.


MadMack's Posts related to minimum six poles:

UFO Saludos.
Como has visto, este hilo ya se murio. Solo Mike move algo, pero los demas, nada..... Estan construyendo el motor, o se dieron cuenta que es otro engaño mas.Nadie hace regalos como este, asi que no vale la pena romperte la cabeza con mas dibujos, porque este es el fin.
Me alegro por comunicar contigo y nos vamos a <<ver>> en otro hilo.
Atentamente. cristian alba
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  #255  
Old 09-16-2015, 12:48 AM
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Build

This is what ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS happens on these threads. When someone has a new idea, or an INTERPRETATION of what the original inventor came up with, instead of KEEPING IT TO THEMSELVES until they have positive results to show by taking that idea and APPLYING IT TO A WORKING MODEL, testing it, examining the test results and comparing them to a baseline BEFORE sharing them with everyone, we get EVERYONE'S UNTESTED IDEAS and this kind of input takes us down side tracks and away from the BASIC design we started with. WHY is that I wonder? I'm not saying that any of the ideas people have come up with are WRONG. What I am saying is, when one idea is on the table and twenty people toss in their idea that is UNTESTED and may have NO positive effects on the outcome, now the few people who actually BUILD are totally confused about which direction to go and the whole project gets sidetracked. Let's leave just ONE idea the table. If you have a modification, TEST IT and make sure it WORKS, and THEN share with the class.

I love all the graphics you guys are capable of coming up with. They are truly amazing. But I would trade them ALL for a crappy video of your idea applied to a model you have BUILT, showing that it works or doesn't work. I'm not trying to be rude or insulting guys, but build it, test it, and then show us what YOU did that was so significantly different that it caused the thing to work.

Again, I do NOT mean to be insulting to anyone, as I know you guys are putting in the time on this project and I am not right now. I'm just observing and getting frustrated.

By the way. I get to go home tomorrow and see if I still have a house. Will know by this time tomorrow. Then I can test some ideas I have been sketching out the last few days. I wish I was better with a cad program, but I am not, so I just draw crap on paper and then build it.

Dave
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  #256  
Old 09-16-2015, 01:19 AM
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Well here's some actual facts based on testing. I am still testing ramp geometries and inductive attraction. While my polarity tester says the ramp is all one polarity based on the inducing polarity of the magnet, the forces measured, say there are polarity gradients at work. In other words, when a north inducing magnet moves along the ramp, the magnet bangs into a compressed, south pole field at the end of the ramp. Just like Mack said and that book from the 1800s. Your hall devices won't measure it, but your cheapo compasses will. Go figure, dynamic fields moving around and compressing in the induced iron. Lol.

Stick with the basics. Like Dave said, make it as directed, then make it better. There are forces at work we ASSume to understand, but we don't. We've all been taught WRONG. Sorry, no videos published here. I don't want to send anyone on any bunny trails due to what they think they see. They're made, but I will hold them till the thing is fully constructed so you can see the why of what I have done. Besides, Mack has shared what I am testing.

Good Luck,

Randy
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  #257  
Old 09-16-2015, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
''''''''''''''''''''' I'm not saying that any of the ideas people have come up with are WRONG. '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

'''''''''''''''''''''''' now the few people who actually BUILD are totally confused about which direction to go ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''


I love all the graphics you guys are capable of coming up with. '''''''''''''''''''''''

Again, I do NOT mean to be insulting to anyone'''''''''''''''''''''



By the way. I get to go home tomorrow and see if I still have a house. ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Dave
Yes I agree this has become a very complex learning experience that is

taking much effort(Nothing ventured nothing gained) on our part and

since we don't have a crappy video

we can post different visual ideas on paper, a sort of door number one

or door number two or is it door number twenty

That is why we all need to chill. I have been through this before

with NDA folks who are in a straight.

I recently put some neo's on my test platform and have tried the butterfly

style and also the curved flat bars before and after or leading, lagging.

Each time I try a new idea, I gain more knowledge.


Ufo is good at graphics and I am a joke but we have to start somewhere.

It is like pinata, ya know blind fold the cronies give'm a ball bat

to get revenge at that swinging treasure just outside their reach.

Hit that thing boy, hit it.

We have posted a few ideas that were shot down now we know what

it is NOT.

I hope you still have a house when you get back. I just had a 4 foot

limb fall onto my old astro van from a 120 year old cotton wood tree.

I hope the whole thing never falls over because the base is 8 feet.

My Van crushed like a beer can

Hurry up and get back up here and keep us on track. We need your

help you know.
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  #258  
Old 09-16-2015, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Hello to All,

Sorry guys, I have been very busy...

But, ever since Mack gave Us the below post...



I stopped doing all this 2D CAD images...swapped program to a much expensive one...(MAYA) and really started "thinking" and building in 3D Models (I can animate it as well)...changes that could be done...plus all advantages that doing so could bring Us...

I can see the whole picture now...better balancing between Modules...plus, a more effective way to "project" Ramps Induced Poles into the Rotor Magnets (180º straight line)

But here they are sharing them with you all.

Like I wrote on the first image on top...it is better to imagine the angles between Planes...and not through Axes. (it tends to confusion)

The Ramps could easily be redirecting Stators Polarity to face Rotor Magnets at a very effective straight angle...in favor of rotation of course...


Regards


Ufopolitics

EDIT 1: Actually, if you've all noticed, the only change done here...is to adjust the Rotor Magnets based on their Y Axis...to about 30º inclination, while keeping the original 30º from our previous 2D Diagrams, as recommended by Mack.

Only thing is...that when we do this...then the third plane also gets inclined as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post
Ufo,

http://www.energeticforum.com/280084-post217.html
YES! Almost 100%.


When I started out I was looking for a way to prevent the rotor magnet from being pulled backwards to the iron ramp, like Shylo mentioned. I came up with the idea to blend the end of the ramp with a magnet to over power the backward attraction of the iron ramp so the rotor could continue rotating. By blend I mean a smooth transition from the ramp to the field of the stator magnet so the rotor magnet would not “feel” the switch. I wanted the rotor to see the attraction from the ramp just “disappear” at the end of the ramp.


One last thing. Start thinking in three dimensions and give the “transition point” between the ramp and magnet some thought.

Mack
Thanks for all your help UFO you truly are a wiz-kid of graphics.

I am reading Macks post here again and the 3D Mack is talking

about might be the way the ramps are to "BLEND WIT A MAGNET"

That is still 2D, See what I mean in his post?


I don't know how you got a 30 degree additional incline of the rotor

magnet of this Mack post. Did I miss a post?

Either way we are just getting started so hold on to that moment.
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  #259  
Old 09-16-2015, 05:04 AM
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Hello everyone
I personally do not ignore anyone. I would have liked communicate with you, but it only has thought UFO purpose. Each, are different (and above, I do not speak English). Ufo seeing this project so graphic - I do not mean that there is testing, my, i have hurry to build him (I am a craftsman details) using graphics Ufo, your comments and most importantly the puzzle game MadMack David has problems, but has presented its first steps, Mikey is the catalyst of this thread and not at last, this project takes Randy scientifically. Perfect. It is as it should be, but there is still a lack of communication. I personally do not mind opinions, suggestions (see Ufo style). So we have to choose if we are on hand or we go together. If you think
at some point i am leftover, i get out.
Regards. cristian alba
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  #260  
Old 09-16-2015, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by lorinrandone View Post
Hello everyone
I personally do not ignore anyone. I would have liked communicate with you, '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''' Each, are different (and above, I do not speak English).''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

If you think
at some point i am leftover, i get out.
Regards. cristian alba

Hello Cristian

No we are glad you are here. You have done us a great service to

show us the right direction for a magnet motor build. You are first

with me You are leading the way English? No, leading

the way by example, leading the way by being first to run your motor

better than any of us YET. We do not talk to you because we are

"afraid" you will not understand English and that this is a waste.


UFO talks to you in your own words.


I use the GOOGLE TRANSLATION and still the words are all wrong and

very confusing. The translation is broken and does not reflect the

true meaning.


But to me, you are the best one and the first to show us that OU is

possible with MADMACKS build. Great going.


Now what is all of this talk about going away?


I need you here Sir!!
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  #261  
Old 09-16-2015, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post

I am reading Macks post here again and the 3D Mack is talking

about might be the way the ramps are to "BLEND WIT A MAGNET"

That is still 2D, See what I mean in his post?


I don't know how you got a 30 degree additional incline of the rotor

magnet of this Mack post. Did I miss a post?


Mikey,

The way I interpret the last sentence of that Mack's post...:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post

One last thing. Start thinking in three dimensions and give the “transition point” between the ramp and magnet some thought.

Mack
Ok, we start "thinking" in 3D...and "obviously and basically" related to the "Transition Point" between Ramp and Magnet...As it is "basically" understood that He is referring to the "magnet" AT the Rotor and NOT to the Stator Magnet.

Stator Magnets are clearly defined (finally) the way they are set...facing axis straight as alignment/adjustment would be done within that specific line ONLY.

So, a TRANSITION POINT between RAMP and ROTOR MAGNET IN 3D...

So far we all have been "imaging" this motor ONLY in 2D...including the Ramps and Rotor Magnets relation (Transition Point).

What would be the ONLY other adjustment Axis to set this two components in 3D?

The "z" axis right?...and I wrote "y" axis (green) on the graphics above because MAYA uses it that way, my bad...but all is relative stuff friend...and with graphics is clearly seen that relates to the VERTICAL/UPRIGHT AXIS...either Z or Y.

Unfortunately for many here...but whenever we are referring to 3D suggestions and possibilities...we will need/depend specifically upon 3D Graphics to understand them properly.

Difference between 2D and 3D?...Just another "third" axis, but that axis generates two more planes intersecting with the 2D single Plane.

Anyways...that is my understanding from that short part of Mack's post...and surely I may be wrong...I may be "seeing more than was meant to be interpreted"...and that "more" may be totally wrong.

And related to 30º adjust to that vertical axis is just a random number...it could be any other adjustment ...however, the ramp should be able to also "move-pivot" within the same angle as your rotor magnet deviation...to effect the proper thrusting force.

However, if any of you guys, have another way to interpret this Transition Point between this two components (Ramp-Rotor Magnet) in 3D, please share it...


Regards


Ufopolitics
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Old 09-16-2015, 02:23 PM
mkt3920 mkt3920 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
However, if any of you guys, have another way to interpret this Transition Point between this two components (Ramp-Rotor Magnet) in 3D, please share it...

Ufopolitics
I think it refers to the ramp (possibly) being above the magnets. I think he wants us to be thinking of the magnetic forces above/below the 2D plane we are looking at. A ramp above the magnets could pivot so that one end of the ramp could be moved to the opposite end of the long stator magnet (for neutral or reverse effects). On the below image, maybe the top left end of has an upward bend or maybe the whole top line of the below image, above the rotor mag, "ramps" downward. What if the below was made from 3 pieces, joined at ends, would that "weakening" of the ramps inductive abilities help or hinder?

___
.....\___

(seen from above, looking down, please ignore dots on image)

Kent
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Old 09-16-2015, 03:33 PM
MadMack MadMack is offline
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Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
While my polarity tester says the ramp is all one polarity based on the inducing polarity of the magnet, the forces measured, say there are polarity gradients at work. In other words, when a north inducing magnet moves along the ramp, the magnet bangs into a compressed, south pole field at the end of the ramp.
Thank you Randy.

To be simple and practical, move the end of the ramp out of the way.
Split the single ramp before it gets to the stator magnet and put the stator magnet between the halves and don't assume the ramp touches the magnet on 3 sides. Splitting the ramp converts the single vector into two vectors and changes the angle of the vectors. Where do you wish to place the induced south pole field(s)? When do you want the vector to change? How rapidly should it change? Where will the point of maximum attraction be, rotor to ramp?

This is the area of success and failure.

Experiment and TEST everyone.

Good luck,
Mack

PS Yes runaway is a problem. It can accelerate to self destruction.
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Old 09-16-2015, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MadMack View Post
Thank you Randy.

To be simple and practical, move the end of the ramp out of the way.
Split the single ramp before it gets to the stator magnet and put the stator magnet between the halves and don't assume the ramp touches the magnet on 3 sides. Splitting the ramp converts the single vector into two vectors and changes the angle of the vectors. Where do you wish to place the induced south pole field(s)? When do you want the vector to change? How rapidly should it change? Where will the point of maximum attraction be, rotor to ramp?

This is the area of success and failure.

Experiment and TEST everyone.

Good luck,
Mack

PS Yes runaway is a problem. It can accelerate to self destruction.
Mack, you are a rare breed! I totally get this. The runaway made sense based on the principles at work. Therefore the need for a mechanical throttle/brake you describe. I'll bet you have quite a story about intellectual rights that would make the hair on our backs curl and our faith in mankind shrivel. You're one of the good guys.

Take Care,

Randy
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Old 09-16-2015, 05:27 PM
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fig 41

Madmack,
Are you referring to fig. 41 page 65 Manual of Magnetism book? So(if I understand at all) the ramp end is "Y" shaped with the attraction stator magnet placed with south facing the stator inside the "v". One side of the v is south induced, the other is north, creating 0 at the junction of the "v"? The front part of the ramp "Y" will be a north vector, while the magnet (front facing) is a south vector?

I drew this out to understand it, but if I'm totally way off I'll delete this post. Sorry no cad(wish I could) or pics, or YouTube , yet.

On my third scrappy build and nothing yet, at lest to help any.
wantomake
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:01 PM
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BroMikey BroMikey is online now
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Originally Posted by MadMack View Post
Thank you Randy.

To be simple and practical, move the end of the ramp out of the way.
Split the single ramp before it gets to the stator magnet and put the stator magnet between the halves and don't assume the ramp touches the magnet on 3 sides. Splitting the ramp converts the single vector into two vectors and changes the angle of the vectors. Where do you wish to place the induced south pole field(s)? When do you want the vector to change? How rapidly should it change? Where will the point of maximum attraction be, rotor to ramp?

This is the area of success and failure.

Experiment and TEST everyone.

Good luck,
Mack

PS Yes runaway is a problem. It can accelerate to self destruction.
Run Away rotor???

Here is my picture for the repulsion side.

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Old 09-16-2015, 10:21 PM
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Turion Turion is offline
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My interpretation of what Mack said is completely different then BroMikey's, but you won't see it here until I have tested it.

By the way. I got to come home today. The fire was held back at the end of my street, so no damage at all to my place except it reeks of smoke, and I lost all the food in the refrigerator and freezer since the power lines were burnt up. Have to go shopping tonight so we have anything to eat.

Thanks to everybody here who expressed their concern. My nerves are a bit frazzled as all I have done is sit around and wonder for five days whether 60+ years of accumulated memories were going up in smoke.

All my UPS deliveries were delayed, so the magnets I ordered are in limbo, but may show up in the next couple days. I hope so! Then I can get back to work and contribute again. Thanks again guys and get to work!

Dave
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Old 09-16-2015, 10:44 PM
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Woohoo

Glad your house was spared. I really enjoy your line of thought and heart to get free and useful energy for all.

And yes, back to work for me too
wantomake
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Old 09-17-2015, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Turion View Post

Thanks to everybody here who expressed their concern. My nerves are a bit frazzled as all I have done is sit around and wonder for five days whether 60+ years of accumulated memories were going up in smoke.


Dave
See THE LORD did have mercy on you, this was our prayer.

Never underestimate HIS Power to perform His Mighty Acts.

HE knows I need you back up and runnin the threads.
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Old 09-19-2015, 12:16 AM
MadMack MadMack is offline
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Guys, I'm sorry I can't post as often or as in-depth as I would like.

Cristian, for some inexplicable reason I have not been able to see your videos until tonight, so I could not comment. They were always just a blank page. After seeing them I must admit I am envious of your craftsmanship. While watching your latest 4 pole I noticed that you were holding the ramp on the wrong side of the stator magnet for your rotation direction. I have been describing only the ramp for the attraction magnet set, and that one starts out with the ramp gapped further away from the rotor and the gap gets smaller as the rotor magnet approaches the stator magnet, with the ramp ending in the general area of the stator magnet.

Ufo, my ramp pivot was nothing like the bell shape you posted so I can not comment on that. That is an interesting way to approach it though. For all I know it may be a much better design. Likewise for the compound angle stator magnets. I am sure there is much room for improvement in my design.

Wantomake, yes the ramp I described could be called a “Y” with the stator magnet in the “V”. Don't be so much concerned about which branch has what polarity, but more about where are the attraction and repulsion forces and the direction they have. There will be some back drag as the split in the ramp widens and this needs to be compensated for as best as can be. It might help to picture the ramp as more like a scorpion, with a shorter tail sticking up, a hump backed body with the rear end elevated, and claws extended ahead. Looking at it from the top, the body and claws would resemble a “Y” shaped tuning fork. The fork tines would be parallel just before the stator magnet, giving the rotor magnet attraction or repulsion vectors to the ramp of 90 degrees to the direction of rotation. As the rotor magnet gets to the stator magnet there is nothing but air between the two.

I would like to point out that I have said nothing about the shape of the very ends of the ramp at the stator magnet, where the ends terminate, nor the various degrees of slope and rotor magnet clearance the ramp may have along it's length.

Regards,
Mack
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