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  #661  
Old 11-05-2015, 06:33 PM
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wantomake wantomake is offline
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any progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post
Hi all,

attached just a rough hand drawing. Not included is the distance between a stator magnet and the next ramp, (in case of more than 2 setups around the motor), which should be equal to 1.5 - 2 times the distance between rotor magnet and ramp at the widest point.

I have not added the bent down part of the ramp as I'm having a hard time getting Madmacks last part. The induced poles are clear but some sentences I'm struggling with.
If you move (slide) a magnet over an iron bar with a spacer in between the only forces I see are:

-attraction towards the bar as the magnet approaches it

-constant force as you slide along

-magnet attracted back as it wants to leave the bar

I can't see any force that wants to hold the magnet in the middle…

Mario
Hey Mario,
I'm re-reading from post #1 and trying to understand what I missed on ramp building. Noticed the picture you posted which looks similar to J. Bedini all repulsion motor that Turion posted earlier. Did you get it to spin or accelerate past the stator magnet with out tapping it past?

Thanks,
Wantomake
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Last edited by wantomake; 11-05-2015 at 06:36 PM.
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  #662  
Old 11-06-2015, 05:49 AM
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BroMikey BroMikey is offline
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It's brainstorming type weather for putting together a MadMack

magnet motor. I will do a video also on how my rotor failed over

a measly micro smidgen got those magnets glued in good

enough to last me a lifetime and now I'll have to take a hammer

to them

Nothing takes the place

of a picture. It's worth a thousand words they tell me.


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  #663  
Old 11-07-2015, 10:56 PM
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Here is my complimentary video for step one in the

MadMack Magnet Motor design. For those of you just chiming in

wondering why people are still trying to make magnets a free energy

source let me say that magnets have always been that.


MadMack does not do video, therefore show and tell is an undertaking

of those who replicate verbalized instruction. MadMack spent 40 years

in the industrial engineering field and I am sure acquired

many expertise in that time.


During the course of years MadMack had studied patent documents

and in time built his first Magnet Motor of which he developed into more

advanced designs later on.


The video you see of me is what I have "Gleaned" from MadMack

and since I have always wanted to build a magnet motor Macks

information caught my eye right away.


Step one is (CENCELLATION) Also I am showing pieces of my build.

In step one 2 rotor magnets are faced off with 2 stationary magnets

called stator magnets. You will see.

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  #664  
Old 11-10-2015, 12:55 AM
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Madmack,
Hoping that all is ok after your surgery.

To All,
I've not had a chance to work on this project lately, hope progress has been made by someone out there.

Been reading and studying the Magnetism book and postings from Madmack to get better grasp of the ramp build.

wantomake
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  #665  
Old 11-10-2015, 01:58 AM
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has anybody heard from Mack ?

How's he doing after his surgery ?

thx
Chet
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  #666  
Old 11-10-2015, 02:52 AM
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Well I use to work at the hospitals and I can tell you sometimes the
patient is tested just before going in and a delay of a few days before
could be set so everything goes smoothly.

He may have just gotten home after a long wait, well I mean he doesn't
have to keep running back so much. I don't know about Mack but we
better let him rest for several weeks more. At our age getting cut don't
heal up at fast as it use to.

@Don't worry about anything Mack, my bearings are almost here
and my rotor got a pilot hole and circle in it last night. I have some
other materials on the way so when I can in the next few weeks I'll
be back to show everyone.

I heard UFO is working at multiple cells.

I have some brass inserts that are barbed and I have a $3000 ultrasonic
probe on like a drill press stand along side a giant heavy duty power
head to pump out the waves. These things work beautiful.

I am sure you know what i am talking about, you drill a hole alittle smaller
than the insert, much like you do when you drill and then tap a thread, put
you part over the hole in the acrylic and gently apply pressure.

This might be kind of nice so I can tighten things down without having
nuts sticking out the bottom plus the threads on these inserts equal
having say 4 nuts worth of threads so lock tight works great.

I know it is not that important for proof of concept.

There is something about drilling many holes in plastic that are better
filled in with an insert so maybe the plastic won't get weakened so
badly. My 1950 trim saw machining table makes nice cuts too.

Also I am still dreaming up ways to produce my first adjustable rotor
magnet mount and when I do you can count on me to show everyone.

I have an oven I heat plastic in sometimes so for the base I think I am
going to melt down some scrap HDPE I have into a 1.5" thick sheet
18" X 18" and man does that stink for a few minutes. I always melt my
plastic outside and in less than 30 minutes the part is on the cool down
phase.

I use a heavy steel plate bottom so it comes out super flat using sides
much like a concrete form looks only I just fill it to the top and let it cool.

I also need more time to measure magnets to see if this pile I bought
has 2 rotor magnets about the same, then another 2 magnets for
the next place around the circle. It seems like to me as long as the
sets are close to one another it will have fewer anomalies.

Once my rotor bearing and rotor are cut I am going to a happy man
since I won't have a floppy rotor like before. I was noticing just
how strong these 1/2" square magnets are and thinking how important
it is to have a good solid bearing to work with.

I don't know for sure if I am going to like the bearings yet til I try them
out. I will be better than the last set. Then there is the cuts to make
for the rotor mounts as they need to be identical to insure balance.

I have a million questions for you that will have to wait til I dig my way
out of all of this work that needs to be done first. By then it might be
somewhere between "TURKEY DAY" and "XMAS"

Hope you are well and feel up to hanging out on the thread say in about
a month, maybe less. Either way we have a lot to go on
that we received first hand from you that will keep us going for awhile.

Cristian is almost there.

Til then Macktake care of yourself and may THE KING OF GLORY
shine on you in HIS great kindness.
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  #667  
Old 11-12-2015, 02:15 AM
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Hey Mack

I been looking at bigger magnets again, like 1" at K&J Magnetics

and they sent me this warning video. Still waitin on bearings

and will be cutting my rotor that I got on it's own hub now.

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  #668  
Old 11-13-2015, 03:29 AM
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Hello Everyone

I got my bearings to day MACK. I should cut the rotor in tonight.

It really floats freely and nice, I love it. The rotor is 3/4" acrylic.

The bearings come empty and zerk fitting come with it. I like

the magic oils better. The rotor is rock solid, but I'll need more time Mack

2 weeks plus with these days ahead. You know what I mean

I'll BRB to show the nuts and bolts later.

You guys are awesome.

Good video's Cristian.
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  #669  
Old 11-13-2015, 08:55 AM
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Hi MACK and the Gang

Thanks Cristian, the washer is 304 stainless steel

Check this out guys, this is really really free and easy.




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  #670  
Old 11-14-2015, 11:02 PM
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Hi Mack, hope you are on the mend.

Hello to all, i finally had some time to make a rotor, am in the middle of my first Garlic harvest on the new farm, so time is scarce.

The rotor disc is form ply, which is cheap and reasonably stable, i will be starting with the magnets in line with axle, to alter the rotor magnet angle i will simply cut slots in the ply to desired angle and use the same magnet carriers, as the carriers are the hardest to make.

Now to make two stator magnet holders that are adjustable, in and out, and for angle.











Best Regards, Cornboy.
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  #671  
Old 11-15-2015, 07:05 AM
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Nice going Cornboy

I like to pick up ideas such as yours for the rotor magnets to
move.

This is what I did for a few minutes today. I got out my grinding table
It uses a standard grinder that is C-clamped to the table and the 2
bearings as well.

It really makes a nice edge if folks don't have their lathe yet. My
perfect circle is still here, it is 15" by 1" thick set up to do magnet
tests.

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  #672  
Old 11-15-2015, 04:07 PM
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wantomake wantomake is offline
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Nice build!!!

Good looking build Corn man,
Hope all goes smooth on your new farm and garlic crop. I've dreamed of a self sustaining farm with solar, wind, and magnet motor power!!

So you are going for the eight position rotor magnets. I like the holder design. Will they swing any to allow the 30 angle or just straight 180 on center like you show them? Maybe tilting the stator magnets to an angle will work as Madmack said. I'm curious to see your ramp setup.

@Bromikey,
Interesting way to get accurate rotor made for those of us without a lathe.

Always enjoy your great builds. Very encouraging and interesting,
wantomake
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  #673  
Old 11-15-2015, 07:43 PM
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Thanks for the kind words guy's.

@ Wantomake, i will use the same magnet holders, and just machine more slots to fit them in, at the desired angles.

The rotor holders will have a small amount of adjustment to balance out the forces.

I have made some very chunky, solid, stator holders that are fully adjustable, and will be trying small gaps between magnets, which requires a very strong embodiment.

Regards Cornboy.
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  #674  
Old 11-16-2015, 03:02 AM
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Excellent work Gents, keep stirring the pot so to speak.

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  #675  
Old 12-02-2015, 01:31 PM
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hope all is well

Mack
please send out a word on your health and well being.

in the mean time here is a man playing with tapers and attraction in a very
simple perhaps similar way ??.

youtube magnet rolling on narrow triangle metal a simple magnet ramp - Bing video

I found this originally here At Mark Dansie's site
Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg to form multi-billion-dollar clean energy fund - Revolution-Green

respectfully

Chet K
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  #676  
Old 12-02-2015, 07:56 PM
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Thanks Ramset

Nice ramp.

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  #677  
Old 12-03-2015, 04:21 AM
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Someone mentioned need for a few more fabrication building videos.

author states:
Dual Axial Flux Alternator. This is a prototype ELEMAN MAGNET MOTOR, OverUnity is iT or Not... Motor Generator or a Toy...This is a Homemade "ELEMAN" Magnetic Motor Self Running or Quantum harmonic Oscillator VS Bedini SSG MOTOR the same "project" that runs from one battery to charge a second battery. Test with CSB 12V 7.2Ah UPS battery Sealed Lead Acid rechargeable battery. Fact or Fake ? Comments are Always Welcome !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=mq98r-rdayo
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  #678  
Old 12-03-2015, 11:07 AM
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Building a magnet motor with adjustable mounts.

Here is my first step toward adjustable stator mounts.

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  #679  
Old 12-03-2015, 08:09 PM
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Just a few tips for those of you trying to build this on the cheap.

I rough cut my rotor with ANY kind of jig saw, scroll saw, band saw I can get my hands on out of 3/4 inch plastic. (I actually have all three) You can cut a smaller circle to go above the rotor and another one to go below the rotor to give it as much "thickness" as you can get. Glue or screw these in place so they will not ever be removed. Thickness adds stability. I drill the center hole through all three at the same time, and press a bearing into the center of the rotor. If you use TWO bearings...one in the top piece and one in the bottom, you REALLY have a stable rotor.

The hole in the center of the bearing is the same size as the shaft on my grinder. I remove the grinding wheel, put a nut and washer on the shaft, the rotor, and another nut and washer. Now I can spin the rough cut rotor at high speed on my grinder. I use this tool:

http://www.lewiscontractorsales.com/...FYdgfgod2LgAZw

to "true" the outside edge of the rotor down to the diameter I want while it is spinning at high speed.

Now I use a THREADED shaft. I find the area on the shaft where I want the rotor to turn. I fill in the threads there with JB weld where the bearings will make contact with the shaft. Then I slide the rotor down the shaft to that spot. I clean any excess JB weld off the bearing, so it doesn't harden on the bearing and keep it from turning properly. Then I put washers and nuts on each side of the rotor and wait for the JB weld to harden and "Lock" the rotor onto the shaft. Done.

I have been making my rotors for other projects this way for YEARS and it works extremely well. I usually only use One bearing and press it into my rotor, but some folks like overkill. This method is definitely overkill as far as stability is concerned. If you don't want to use the JB weld, put a spacer between the two bearings so that you can tighten the two outside nuts as tight as you want without pushing the bearing out of the the rotor. That will also work.
Dave
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  #680  
Old 12-03-2015, 09:13 PM
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Hi Dave
Great pointers. Could you elaborate on how you mounted the cheese
grater on the outer edge of the wheel? I my case I used the grinder
on the perimeter of the rough cut to lower high spots then keep moving
the grinder in till done.

In my case the shaft is bolted down with 2 six dollar bearings very securely
and when grinding this plastic almost an inch thick I must move so slow
at first.

Your idea using the grinder (I have one of those big dogs also) appealed
to me except I couldn't figure an easy holder for the cutter.

I already had the 12" x .8" 4 pound rotor spun up in my giant drill press
but everytime I tried to shave the edge all I got was hopping. I figured
I would need a holder of some kind.

Also in the above diagram you will note the added complications of
slotted adjustable mounts. It is very important that you make all
brackets adjustable, this is not so easy. It doesn't cost anymore
other than time and the exercise of the grey matter, but I have
found that to eliminate losses and optimize available forces it
becomes a paramount issue.

I can not explain the thrill I am getting over this project, I will be doing
a video sometime in the next month because my parts are coming in
slowly and time is spread thin.

But make no mistake, there are no short cuts to balancing this
cancellation magnet motor. If you adjust the stator magnet on the
repulsion side differently that the stator magnet on the attraction side
you will need to move the entire stator assembly over to achieve
cancellation as the angle of the forces will increase or decrease
the center line.

I have gotten cancellation at many different settings with stator magnets
angled opposite each other to increase the attraction ramping and still
maintain the null at the cross over centerline of 180 degrees.

I also use a 12" set of digital calipers to adjust my rotor magnets for
ensuring precision. You can't use a set of feeler gauges to set stator
to rotor magnet clearances if your rotor is of by 30 thousandths.

You will have to measure down to a few thousandths, say + or - .005?

If you are 20 thousandths out all of the time you will never make a
full motor fly. Besides it ain't that hard to do things right if you are
serious about learning this motor.

Close tolerances and all magnets adjustable please or continue to play
with the beginner stage.

Talk to us Turion, you are someone who has put his time into this kind
of building project for years. Thanks for the grinder idea.
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  #681  
Old 12-03-2015, 09:22 PM
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I bolted a flat metal strap to the back end of my "cheese grater" that has a hinge at one end so it can pivot toward the plastic rotor. It swings in and out. As you said, you have to move it in very slowly, but by stopping the grinder quite often, I can see when it is making contact all the way around the outside of the rotor. As soon as it is, I know the rotor is "round" and have a sanding pad I put in its place to "smooth" things out completely. Then I'm done.


Or, if you want to doit the way YOU did it without all the work and you have a few bucks.
Hub 1 2" Shaft Diameter with Keyway Meyer or Buyer Salt Spreader 36152 0202800 | eBay


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  #682  
Old 12-04-2015, 02:59 AM
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Excellent description Dave

You probably said that before but I must have missed it.

Here is what's up on my adjusters. As you can see cancellation center
will never be properly done in Fig B.

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  #683  
Old 12-04-2015, 04:53 AM
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Here is another angle of view for stator adjustments, included
is an attraction ramp. The ramp mounts are not yet shown.

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  #684  
Old 12-16-2015, 04:50 AM
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Video #1

If you haven't seen this video posted on O.U., you should

youtube magnet rolling on narrow triangle metal a simple magnet ramp - Bing video
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  #685  
Old 12-16-2015, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
If you haven't seen this video posted on O.U., you should

youtube magnet rolling on narrow triangle metal a simple magnet ramp - Bing video
]

Yes I saw this last month because I look every week for the latest
magnet motor info. I should have posted it then. The ball is hitting
the long tapered piece of metal and ramping from the pointed end
on up toward the ever widening section of the cut.

He needs to make it a "Y" shape so when it gets to the other end
it will release and keep on going. I just had to say that.
This gives me an opportunity to share my building progress.

I had to send 1 bearing back and send for a new one. Then another
part for tapping was wrong so I ordered again. It takes time to tool
up. Next I am sending for a cobalt drill bit and a cobalt M8 tap to
thread a stainless steel. My 1500 watt ultrasonic welder works great
for inserting brass nuts into plastic, well they're not nuts but they act
as nuts. They are called inserts.

I just got a perfect piece of lexan 1/2" last week for making mounts
and the inserts are close together so I didn't want a crack so using
the bullet proof lexan should solve the potential problem as seen with
acrylic.

I got my 40mm number M8 beveled brass machine screws. I still need
to decide on a platform other than wood so maybe I'll stick one of my
electric stoves out in the yard to melt a nice block out of a pile of
thick chucked of HDPE.

I also have the grain oriented transformer type metal but first I'll
do some forks out of cold roll again. I can't wait to get this setup
to where the magnets will cancel being only 90 thousandths clearance
from the stators. Then the stator magnet will be adjustable and I will
be having a ball.

I did some tests on my old setup that had stators pointed in opposite
directions with the rotor magnets on a 45. You reach a point where it
becomes a trade off for redirecting magnetic energy and drag or losses
as you all well know. The thing I saw was by angling the attraction
stator into the rotor angle I could draw the in coming rotor magnet
from a much further distance but to much makes it harder for the rotor
magnet to pass by easily.

Then the same thing on the repulsion side only stator is angled away
from the in coming rotor magnet as the back side of the repulsion side
stator is attraction nearest the rotor magnet and draws the rotor
magnet in just before cancellation occurs.

My 1/2" X 1" magnets are very powerful N42 and the rotor magnets
are 1/2" X 1/2" N52.

Having a blast because it makes sense where MOST other magnet
experiments did not do much of anything.

I am going to follow the steps as laid out by MADMACK. I hope he
made it out the other side of the surgery room without to many
crash and burn, bumps and bruises.

After the 1st of the year will be better for me anyway.
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  #686  
Old 12-16-2015, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Or, if you want to doit the way YOU did it without all the work and you have a few bucks.
Hub 1 2" Shaft Diameter with Keyway Meyer or Buyer Salt Spreader 36152 0202800 | eBay


Dave

Hey Dave
I am going over past posts and I missed this one thanks. I looked
all over for one of those and couldn't find one. My rotor is 11.7" dia
so do you think that hub should be made out of stainless??

I thought I needed Stainless like the hard drive bearings and hubs are.

It shouldn't effect your rotor being so much larger dia. But
thanks, I been wanting to see one of these and been looking at other
parts lately.

Yeah I like it already, I'll get 2.

Hey I found a stainless hub but I would need to drill it and tap.

12 x 1 2" w Hub Stainless Meat Grinder Mincer Plate Disc Screen | eBay
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  #687  
Old 12-16-2015, 04:35 PM
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With a 12 inch rotor, I doubt it matters WHAT the hub is made out of, as long as it isn't too BIG. The stainless one you found would probably cause some issues if it was made out of steel for sure. With a smaller build, say four or five inches, a small hub MIGHT cause some problems. If you want to know for sure, set your magnet on a flat surface and move a very small piece of steel toward it. See how close you can get before the magnetic field attracts the steel.

I've attached a rather crude drawing of what I am building for my rotor setup. Thanks to those who have come up with similar ideas and posted them here. I wanted to take it just a step farther. I will actually have two larger rotors with the rotor magnet BETWEEN them on a third small rotor. It gives me the thickness of rotor I want both for the "hub", (which is nothing more than a bearing pressed into each rotor with a spacer between them) and the outside edges which will be held apart by spacers, and where I want basically an "axel" to rotate my wheel containing the magnet. The "slot" in the top and bottom rotor allow me to move the "magnet wheel" in and out from center, and still gives the ability to rotate the "magnet wheel, to adjust its angle of attraction depending on the holes I have drilled around the circumference of the magnet wheel to align with the slot. As you can see from the drawing, the LARGER the magnet wheel, the more precise you can make your adjustments to angle the magnet,

I am still working on getting my 3d printer put together to make some of the parts I need, so it will be a while, but I haven't given up on this project. It may take me a while just to get the rotors made the way I want them, although TAP plastics has them all pre cut in different sizes and thicknesses. I may just have to grit my teeth and order them and worry about the damage to my wallet later.
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  #688  
Old 12-17-2015, 03:44 AM
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Yes I think you are right about the hub being okay so i probably
won't be to concerned. Did I hear you right that you are in the process
of doing a 3D print job on a rotor?
I was looking at printers the other day and it said it printed 1" Square
per 3 hours. Is that how slow these things are?

I am also under the impression that because the material is almost
microscopic that parts are stronger with less flaws so cracking
or weak spots are not present. I don't know how true that is but
it does make sense.

I saw that post of John Bedini doing some 3D printing here lately.

The CNC seems like it would be faster and I think the prices are
almost the same? Or is a printer more costly? I see the laser CNC
machines for 3-4 thousand.

Both seem like a step in the right direction so parts can all be made
identically. Like the window motor or SSG and now maybe the MADMACK.
Are you saying that you are printing a MADMACK magnet motor rotor?

Then you said multiple rotors and I couldn't help but think of how in
some cases this might be a way to make it easier to balance the machine.
Once a 2 pole cell is functioning good the next cell could be put on the
second rotor and the third for a 6 pole motor.

Is that what you were thinking?
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Old 12-17-2015, 04:45 AM
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We (Matt Jones and I) recently obtained a CNC machine and a 3d printer. Both of these are at Matt's place. I recently obtained a SECOND 3d printer (the exact same one) and am currently putting it together. I have plans to purchase the same CNC machine also. That way, even though we are on opposite sides of the US, we can reproduce identical products.

The 3d printers can take quite a while to print an object. It'snot like a copy machine.

I may print my rotors, just because I want the slots in them, or I may just cut some the way I always have and use some other method to cut the slot. Not sure yet.

I am using TWO rotors because I am making them out of thinner plastic and using spacers between the two rotors. I need to hold the 1" magnets between the plastic. Rotors cut out of 1" plastic are just too expensive.
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Old 12-25-2015, 05:42 AM
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Dog-One Dog-One is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 265
Tuggers

Not sure where people are at with this project, but I found a variation/twist that may give someone and idea they hadn't thought of:

https://sites.google.com/site/ageofm...motive-tuggers

Cheers!
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magnet, magnets, rotor, magnetic, ramps, stator, motor, set, torque, attraction, degrees, repulsion, symmetry, time, shaft, work, ramp, build, attracting, material, provide, forces, thing, means, possibly

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