Energetic Forum  
Facebook Twitter Google+ Pinterest LinkedIn Delicious Digg Reddit WordPress StumbleUpon Tumblr Translate Addthis Aaron Murakami YouTube 2020 ENERGY CONFERENCE - PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!!

2020 Energy Science & Technology Conference
PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!
http://energyscienceconference.com


Go Back   Energetic Forum > >
   

Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #631  
Old 10-26-2015, 07:20 PM
Siggi1974's Avatar
Siggi1974 Siggi1974 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 32
Small Vid

Hi All,

here a small vid of my test with the attraction ramp

Best regards
Siggi

Madmack Test Attraction Ramp - YouTube
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (94.8 KB, 36 views)
__________________
Asymmetry is the Key for free energy
Reply With Quote

Download SOLAR SECRETS by Peter Lindemann
Free - Get it now: Solar Secrets

  #632  
Old 10-26-2015, 08:43 PM
MadMack MadMack is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 73
First let me congratulate everyone. You have accomplished in weeks what it took me several months to do.

Unfortunately I have little time. There is a surgery for me in a couple of days and I will be out of touch afterwards, hopefully only for a week or two.

Randy,
That's about a perfect description although the tines could get closer to the stator until the very end, if desired. I think you have the acceleration part of that ramp tested to satisfaction so I would like to talk a little about that transition area between two stator nodes as I can see that most are thinking there is one ramp per stator magnet and nothing but air for many degrees between every two nodes. You and I are talking about a rotor mag transiting from an entirely attractive node to a repulsive node with attractive ramp.

Up until now everyone has been using a ramp material that has the same density (not mass) throughout it's length. It is possible to alter the density in the ramp or tines in order to reduce the induced magnetism from the stator magnet, should you desire to do that. How? By inserting thin slices of plastic, cardboard, enamel or other suitable material across the tine. This idea goes all the way back to Davis's Manual of Magnetism page 66 figure 45. Not only does it reduce the average density of a length of iron, it also increases the reluctance of that length. In addition the effect is variable simply by adjusting the ratio and thickness of nonmagnetic material to iron.
Does that sound useful?
You can test this effect with some tape, a stack of machine screw washers, paper or cardboard, and a somewhat weak magnet. Tape up a stack of washers, put the magnet at one end and use a small nail or paper clip to feel the pull along the length of the stack. Then try varying the stack density from one end to the other by inserting various thickness of material between washers. Move the magnet to different locations on the stacks too. Take a second weak magnet & test it's attraction and repulsion to stacks of various configurations. Try every variation you can imagine. Use a magnetic compass too, if you have one, while you're playing with that second magnet. Try different size washers together. I guarantee you will find this experiment interesting.


Cornboy,
The diameter of the rotor can't be determined in the beginning because the ramps and magnets and transition design that you use set the rotor diameter. I am not being vague, there is no way around this. After you have the acceleration ramps and the transition from one ramp to the next worked out then you know the exact spacing between your two stator magnets. Then the diameter can be worked out based on the number of stator ramps/magnets desired and the necessary clearance between rotor magnets and stator ramps/magnets. 12 is an arbitrary size that gives ample room for experimenting, measuring and testing with the 1/2 magnets. I had one rotor that ended up being 10.74 diameter and I can almost guarantee yours will be different.

Casting the ramps with pure iron dust sounds good but I can not verify it. I think we would all be interested in knowing for sure. I can only commit to what I know to work and that is transformer iron laminate.


Ufo,
Your videos are a great help to those who do not have your resources. Thank you for that as well as for your perseverance.
You have shown that the rotor magnets and ramps react very differently at opposite poles and increasing the rotor magnet angle has positive results with the repulsion side, but at the same time seems to have a more negative affect at the attraction side. So, is there a compromise that will allow the rotor magnet to work well at either pole?

Something to consider. Remember way back I said that you would want to try different magnet angles? Here are some combinations that no one has tested publicly.
Both rotor magnets straight to the center line with straight stator magnets.
Both rotor magnets straight to the center line with angled stator magnets.
Both rotor magnets straight to the center line with one angled stator magnet at a time.

With the rotor magnets in this straight configuration:
Angling the stator pole face away from the approaching rotor mag could add push after the rotor mag has passed center on the repulsion side.
Angling the stator pole face toward the approaching magnet could aid pull as the rotor mag approaches the attraction side.

Angling two adjacent stator magnets this way will alter the field between the two of them, and may alter the transition characteristics of the rotor as well.

BroMikey,
It's good that you are testing the pull and repel force as well as keeping an open mind on the magnet angles vs. rotation. I repeat now that I am no expert on magnetism, far from it. I solved this motor problem the same way I have solved every other engineering task in the last 40 years. By identifying the process, breaking that process down into separate distinct functions or tasks to be accomplished in sequence and solving those tasks one step at a time.
These are the tasks:
1. Provide a motive force or energy. This is the fields of the stator and rotor magnets.
2. Acceleration of the rotor. This is the acceleration portion of the ramps of course.
3. Decoupling the rotor magnet field from one stator field/ramp and coupling to the next stator field/ramp (in attraction) with minimal loss of momentum. This is the transition portion of the ramp(s) and the most critical step.

In order for the motor to run the following must happen, and this is written in stone.
The rotor must accelerate to or past the stator magnet position, then complete the transition to the next ramp with equal or greater rotational velocity than it entered the preceding ramp. That's it. Period. The end. Of course we want a greater velocity because equal velocity does not provide energy for work, only self rotation.

Cristian,
Keep us posted please.

It's taken hours to write this, I have to stop here. Sorry for the 'data dump', I wanted to get as much as possible written. To anyone I failed to respond to, please accept my apologies.

When I return it would be nice to see some good progress. I know you will succeed.

Best Regards to all,
Mack
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #633  
Old 10-26-2015, 09:27 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
Don't have gauss meter or know the math for the flux. So will do as many trys as it takes.
I think one of the calculators at K&J can be used somehow. Like the

calculator function that shows you how much metal is needed to keep

90 percent of the flux on one side of the barrier.


All I know is that I made a bunch of ramps and two of them need to be

discussed. Both of them are made using the same transformer electrical

steel and both have tines the same approximate length X width X thickness.


These two ramps were made from small amounts of electrical steel so I

wanted to use my only steel the best I could. That was what was in my

mind. Also the other thing was to make one adjustable.

The adjustment part was to make the long tines scissor in the middle so

they could be made to either follow the curve of the rotor arc plus also be

adjusted away from the arc, to see what might happen.


What I learned was that following the curve of the rotor arc uniformly

then also make the space between the tine and the arc decline

gradually.


So now lets go back to my best two ramps. The other of my best two

is cut from transformer core material also. Another important detail for

making an easy assembly of my "Y" ramps is that I use black electrical

tape to add the laminates together.

I have a call coming in so I will be back later with diagrams to finish this

entry. I'll show you some proportions.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #634  
Old 10-26-2015, 11:44 PM
tachyoncatcher's Avatar
tachyoncatcher tachyoncatcher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Counterspace
Posts: 414
Look at this motor, nothing is impossible.

Thank you Mack for all you have given and shared. God bless your journey through, to the other side of that surgery you trouble over. May it be in his will to allow you to continue your work after the surgery with a vigor that even you Mack, didn't realize existed within you. My thoughts and prayers, along with thousands of others, are with you.

God Bless Buddy,

Randy
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #635  
Old 10-27-2015, 01:19 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
Thank you Mack for all you have given and shared. God bless your journey through, to the other side of that surgery you trouble over. May it be in his will to allow you to continue your work after the surgery with a vigor that even you Mack, didn't realize existed within you. My thoughts and prayers, along with thousands of others, are with you.

God Bless Buddy,

Randy
I didn't know that. I use to work in the surgery rooms and watched the

open heart process. May God be with you Mack. You are in good hands

with THE KING. You can't lose, anyway it turns out. You will be back at it

batting a 1000 before you know it. Relaxation is your victory.


"Fear not little flock"
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 10-27-2015 at 02:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #636  
Old 10-27-2015, 02:06 AM
Cornboy 555's Avatar
Cornboy 555 Cornboy 555 is online now
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 803
All the best Mack, will be thinking of you, speedy recovery Mate.

Thanks for all you have shared.

Warm regards Cornboy.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #637  
Old 10-27-2015, 03:06 AM
tachyoncatcher's Avatar
tachyoncatcher tachyoncatcher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Counterspace
Posts: 414
For your consideration

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post
...
Something to consider. Remember way back I said that you would want to try different magnet angles? Here are some combinations that no one has tested publicly.
Both rotor magnets straight to the center line with straight stator magnets.
Both rotor magnets straight to the center line with angled stator magnets.
Both rotor magnets straight to the center line with one angled stator magnet at a time.

With the rotor magnets in this straight configuration:
Angling the stator pole face away from the approaching rotor mag could add push after the rotor mag has passed center on the repulsion side.
Angling the stator pole face toward the approaching magnet could aid pull as the rotor mag approaches the attraction side.

Angling two adjacent stator magnets this way will alter the field between the two of them, and may alter the transition characteristics of the rotor as well. ...
I have been working with 1/2" cube neos that Mack recommended and a setup with 3/4x2x3/8 in ceramics. My test bed is built in such a way that everything is easily adjusted. I have done most of my concept testing with the ceramics as I wanted to understand action/reaction of each configuration and the weaker magnets are easier to control.

Those of you with thinner magnets will have different results from the angles than those with cube/rectangle magnets. When angled the opposing pole on the magnets has a GREAT influence on the two magnets while they approach each other. We can leverage these forces to our advantage. In other words, the face of the magnets is not our only tool to gain bias. Mack eludes to this with the above quote.

An easy test. I'm going to guess most everyone here has used ceramics and has them laying around somewhere. Take two and hold them in your hands as if they where the stator and rotor in motion. Feel the forces at different angles, at different distances. Use the weaker magnets for this test. Compare thicker to thinner if you have them. You will see what I'm talking about.

It is easy to forget the forces all around the magnet as we focused on the faces and their comparative angle. We can use ALL the forces to our advantage if considered.

Then there is shunting. Shunting directs the magnetic flux and creates a new force ....

Mack has gave us much to think about. Much to do.

Take Care,

Randy
__________________
 

Last edited by tachyoncatcher; 10-27-2015 at 03:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #638  
Old 10-27-2015, 03:33 AM
wantomake's Avatar
wantomake wantomake is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 905
Get well soon

Mack,
I hope and pray a speedy recovery for you. Thanks for all you give and the patience with us.

wantomake
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #639  
Old 10-27-2015, 08:37 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,130
@All of the guys

You are all a bunch of gentlemen, Thank you!!

Remember eariler I told you I will be back? With a diagram?

This shows my tests. 3 ramps, bigger and bigger.

The thin one is dynamite, the increased mass ruins everything.

The top ramp works wonders using the flux properly.

The shape is not perfect because I can not draw it any better.

__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #640  
Old 10-27-2015, 02:55 PM
gene gene gene gene is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Northern Wisconsin
Posts: 257
Mack, Thanks!!

I pray for the creator to be at your side through this.

Best regards, Gene
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #641  
Old 10-28-2015, 09:05 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post
First let me congratulate everyone. You have accomplished in weeks what it took me several months to do.

Unfortunately I have little time. There is a surgery for me in a couple of days and I will be out of touch afterwards, hopefully only for a week or two.

BroMikey,
It's good that you are testing the pull and repel force as well as keeping an open mind on the magnet angles vs. rotation. I repeat now that I am no expert on magnetism, far from it. I solved this motor problem the same way I have solved every other engineering task in the last 40 years. By identifying the process, breaking that process down into separate distinct functions or tasks to be accomplished in sequence and solving those tasks one step at a time.
These are the tasks:
1. Provide a motive force or energy. This is the fields of the stator and rotor magnets.
2. Acceleration of the rotor. This is the acceleration portion of the ramps of course.
3. Decoupling the rotor magnet field from one stator field/ramp and coupling to the next stator field/ramp (in attraction) with minimal loss of momentum. This is the transition portion of the ramp(s) and the most critical step.

In order for the motor to run the following must happen, and this is written in stone.
The rotor must accelerate to or past the stator magnet position, then complete the transition to the next ramp with equal or greater rotational velocity than it entered the preceding ramp. That's it. Period. The end. Of course we want a greater velocity because equal velocity does not provide energy for work, only self rotation.


Best Regards to all,
Mack

I have been mad at myself for years that I couldn't figure out
a way to redirect the powerful forces coming off these Neo magnets.

You Sir have answered my prayer. I now can apply myself to learning
these motors, thanks to a starting point provided by YOU!!!

Yer my main MadScientist

Take your time and get over the hump. You are in good hands. "HIS"

You can't miss.

I have had little time to experiment but can't keep away from the this
motor. I did some tests where the tips of the tines on the attraction
side were the only thing near the stator(1/8") and this does good
but do that on the repulsion side and watched the incoming rotor
magnet go the other way.

Then I learned that the repulsion could use more mass as compared to the attraction? Maybe, we will see. Just letting you know where I am. The
density information blows a new whistle upstairs.To Kool.

Gonna cut me some milk bottle slats for makin stacks.

PS: A friend of mine had surgery on his hip and went back to work
ASAP? The week following fell off his tractor and injured himself
but not that bad. But because he was still healing from the previous
wounds, he died from the combined strain. He wouldn't rest and I told
him the week before he shouldn't be out here. He was 63.

Take care of yourself MACK.
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 10-28-2015 at 09:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #642  
Old 10-31-2015, 01:30 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,130
Hey Mack

I hope all is well. Gonna drop a line 4 ya to THE KING

I just bought 20 1" long by 1/2" rectangular NEO's that are 30lbs

pull force called N42's. The poles are on the ends thank you very much.

Next I bought 12 cubes 1/2" neo's pull force 32lbs called N50's.

I have some 3/4" Acrylic and am gonna afford some brass bolts plus

a nice bearing. I don't know on the bearing yet but I have seen

some nice one's in my time.


I wanted to let you know I am in for the long haul. When I move up to

1" neo's I will have documented your motor worldwide a piece at a time.

My last few tests have shown me that if I am to accelerate the rotor

magnet on the repulsion side I will need more mass. I am tempted to

use a modified ramp that let's me take flux off the back end of the

stator. But then again we need to remember to keep the balance or

cancellation event at the same time.


All magnet mounting will be done so each one is adjustable. Now that I

know forks need to go above and below the stator magnets, I am also

making mounts to hold the stator magnets from the middle.


It may not be needed but then I won't learn nothin if,in I don't try
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 10-31-2015 at 01:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #643  
Old 10-31-2015, 07:07 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by lorinrandone View Post
I sent in the private space of each one of the link by my last video, but is not interested, so i will make the public, having to comment on another forum. Who will be affected? I'm not
That is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNOhuYaU1WI
Put it back so I can copy to study. Yes I like that video.

Mack says the video is good one.
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 10-31-2015 at 07:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #644  
Old 10-31-2015, 07:20 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Hello Guys,



TESTING RAMPS III

Here is a video on the whole new set up am working on now...And...Idk if you guys had noticed, but I have changed the way I had the 30 angle configuration previously by the one shown by Mack on Page 15, Post 442

And not like I had it in previews build on videos as well in all my previous CAD's



Regards to All


Ufopolitics

Hey Ufo

I have been going over this material and my last statement on your

rampIII video and it seems I did not see things very clearly at the time.

Despite my inaccurate view at the time I'll have to say that your

video is right on. For some reason I thought the magnets were backwards

but it turns out that your magnets are on the proper angle and in the right

direction. Then your ramp shapes and differences are a good example

for me to try.

Thanks for the good video's.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #645  
Old 10-31-2015, 09:37 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,130
Hey guys

I have been hangin out havin the time of my life learning new things.

Enclosed are 3 Figures in the diagram. The first one is the very powerful

attraction side power stroke. But what of the repulsion side? Shouldn't

that be a power stroke also? UFO, let me say this to you. If we turn your

motor upside down and put the repulsion side on the top here is what

will happen. The rotor magnet ramping will not engage unless you force

the magnet past that certain break through area and then it will zoom

along. Nothing like the attraction side as far as I can see.

@ everyone.

The UFO video is a good start and shows me the repulsion side needs work

so I did some thinking and testing, hands on.

In Fig.B I have tried many configurations with repulsion ramp tines going

past the stator. I have increased the ramp mass, all of that. It doesn't

work right. It doesn't work as good as the attraction side and I want it to.

I want the repulsion ramp to pull as hard and strong as the attraction

side ramp and I wasn't ever getting that.

What I mean is I wasn;t getting the long distance attraction pull on

the repulsion side that makes for a longer more powerful run.

I want a power stroke on the repulsion side equally as strong.

Well, I got it this way. I don't know if it is right or wrong and I especially

won't know how that idea will effect the transition between cells.

I have not tried my new ramp with both ramps on yet.

I just wanted you all to see what I found.

__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #646  
Old 10-31-2015, 12:05 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,130
One more diagram for Ramp/Stator tests.

This is the way to go. Cancellation is much easier for step 1.

Then the pull back from the passing rotor magnet to stator is far

less. It is about losses "REMEMBER"

This arrangement with both changes makes both ramps equal

on acceleration. Guys try it, you will never look back.

__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #647  
Old 10-31-2015, 08:33 PM
tachyoncatcher's Avatar
tachyoncatcher tachyoncatcher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Counterspace
Posts: 414
Balancing

Quote:
Originally Posted by lorinrandone View Post
... My current problem is the precise balancing of the four poles that I use at this time. Ie it is not possible without full circle perfect balance....
Cristian,
I find weight balance the easy part. I either drill holes in the heavy side of the rotor. Or, if you find the imbalance to much for material removal, then drill holes in the light side and fill them back up with a epoxy/fiberglass resin and lead bird shot mix. I use fiberglass resin in place of the epoxy for composite mixes like that.

The tough part for me is getting the magnets all equal in strength. Mack shared the process for that here.

Regards,

Randy
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #648  
Old 10-31-2015, 08:58 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,130
This is my French!!!Oui, Monsieur

You are my friend. And teacher.

I am downloading now.





Quote:
Originally Posted by lorinrandone View Post
Mickey. A big shout out to you to others and especially to Mack.
I understand that you want to publish my last video, but is more comfortable waiting for the next because it is much more evolved. I mean that my progress with this engine are incredible. I have come | close circle more than once. My current problem is the precise balancing of the four poles that I use at this time. Ie it is not possible without full circle perfect balance. I am also using my sheets transformer ramps that are slightly different from the usual. I'll leave some pictures with the pair of ramps made my style. the NEXT step for me will make a six-pole rotor in a numerical milling cutter to eliminate balance problems. I came up idea of will check the effectiveness of the ramp using only a magnet. You will see the mode of behave the magnet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4SxXyvfk1I That's all for this time.
And Mickey, Thanks for keeping open thread
Best regards. cristian
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 10-31-2015 at 09:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #649  
Old 10-31-2015, 09:53 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,130
This one is even better. The opposing forces cancel, the induction

ramps attract very strong and once the ramping is done, cancellation

past both sides repel the rotor magnet in the positive direction.


A strong attraction is achieved for both ramps not just the attraction

side. The cancellation is easier and as the magnets leave the cancellation

area instead of being pulled back are both equally repelled.

BTW I thought I was the first man to invent this drawing then

I see people did that already but I just didn't see it til now.

Thanks to everyone, this is soooooo exciting, so rewarding to learn

new things. Thanks Mack.

PS.Note:
I am back after a few more tests. The repulsion side in this diagram needs

the stator magnet to turn away from the incoming rotor mag, while the

attraction side stator needs to turn into the rotor magnet. Since

this is not a uniform adjustment I had some concerns about the

cancellation effect. I set it up both ways by hand because all of my

test have been done this way from the beginning. What I found is that

the rotor magnets don't care which side of the stator pole, it is exposed

to, as long as the angles are the same on each side.

I have achieved cancellation many times using this diagram. Does

anyone understand what that means in terms of optimizing induction

forces and cutting loses? Please give it some thought.

This layout pushes as much as it pulls.


I mean to tell you this config might run on it's own. Barely.

__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 11-01-2015 at 10:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #650  
Old 11-02-2015, 10:49 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,130
Stator angle AND ramp mass effect on cancellation center line.

Some may ask why would I want to angle the stator so far over?

Because this increases induction power in ramps. The bottom dia.

shows how the ramp throws off the cancellation center.

Adjustable stator angle will give the power stroke more energy but

at the same time move the cancellation zone.

__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #651  
Old 11-03-2015, 12:07 AM
wantomake's Avatar
wantomake wantomake is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 905
observations

Wow, really slow here.

I've been testing different size laminated and iron ramps. The one common problem with each one is the polarization of the tines nearest to the stator mags. This seems to be a sticking point for the rotor magnets.

I thought my unbalanced rotor was the cause, so I painstakingly got it balanced. Then noticed the rotor still stopping at the same spot. The beginning of the forks is the sticking spot. With a small cheap compass found the tines polarizing in different ways.

Questions.
Does this slow the rotation from the fork to the stator magnets?
Can this polarization be stopped by bending the tines back toward the other end of the stator magnet?

Well the laminated iron seems to polarize less. But this is where I am at this time.

Hope all is well for Madmack,
wantomake
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #652  
Old 11-03-2015, 03:00 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
Wow, really slow here.
This seems to be a sticking point for the rotor magnets.
I am not sure how you look at polarize. This is how I view the process.

2 rotor mags, 2 stator mags and 1 ramp. Adjust stators till no sticky

spot is detectable and post video.


Next take that ramp off.

Next put the other side ramp on and repeat the adjustment.

No sticky spot.

Move one stator magnet while the other is fixed til equilibrium is

reached. With my biggest ramp attached to the attraction stator

my repulsion stator magnet is 1" off center. As well as angling.

No stick spot/polarization/magnetization/stuck. None.

Having 1 ramp on off balances the magnetic fields greatly yet after

both ramps are installed balance in restored.


To achieve balance with one ramp, ignore the fine print and go

outside the box. Move the stators around.

Macks last post suggest stator magnet testing for good reason.

It may look like the magnets are dead on using line of sight but those

distortions in the field lines say otherwise.


1 degree off on a stator is enough to keep you from balance. I have been

meaning to draw up a diagram showing the probability of field line changes

based of magnet angles with distance.
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 11-03-2015 at 03:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #653  
Old 11-03-2015, 09:02 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,130
Let me tell you where I am at in the process.

All my tests have been by hand and now that I am trying to

bring the magnets closer the forces are much stronger. So strong

that my bearing is letting the rotor flop. The rotor ends are moving

1/8th of and inch so everytime I try to force the magnets together

to get cancellation I fail. I ordered the magnets and brass. Last night

I pulled a 1/2" shaft out of a AC fan motor. Nice stuff. It's got to

be tight. I remembered Mack saying it is the little things that ruin

your project. Then I remembered Mack saying use a feeler

gauge to make spaces, and my rotor is moving 1/8"??? No NO

Then I see Cristian's ramps are very strong and when I look at my best

ramp I laugh because it flops all over. I liked that ramp.

Oh well I'll keep it all for a side line test jig.

My round magnets will go on the shelf in favor of square magnets at

which time I will let you all know what I see by comparison.



I can't get the ramps close enough to the rotor yet. $6 Each for these.


I will let you all know about my plastic later.

__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 11-03-2015 at 09:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #654  
Old 11-04-2015, 12:14 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,130
Thanks Cristian

I understand your post well. How about this? Oil Bearings many balls?

No my rotor is 12"

Boston Gear 5491 Anti Friction Ball Bearing 0 500" Inner Diameter 1 125" Outer | eBay


__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 11-04-2015 at 12:18 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #655  
Old 11-04-2015, 12:16 AM
tachyoncatcher's Avatar
tachyoncatcher tachyoncatcher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Counterspace
Posts: 414
Attraction Ramps

Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
... The beginning of the forks is the sticking spot. With a small cheap compass found the tines polarizing in different ways.

Questions.
Does this slow the rotation from the fork to the stator magnets?
Can this polarization be stopped by bending the tines back toward the other end of the stator magnet? ...
Hey wantomake,
When the ramp splits, some induction force is lost. I have found two ways to overcome this. Bring the ramp closer and increase the mass/thickness of the tines in the middle. Once the magnet gets close enough to the stator magnet, on the attraction node, then it will pull the rotor in. It was suggested to extend the tines beyond the attraction magnets to allow the next ramp to influence the rotation before the attraction ramp ends. It was also suggested to thin the attraction ramps to a point at their ends. I tried to bend the ends away and found that bending caused a two fold issue on the attraction side. It increased the force vectors to the rotor and the north pole polarity in the ends of the tines increase this stopping force.

While typing this out, I just realized something. Duh, I have been bending the ends of the forks away from the rotor. What if we take those north polarized fork ends and bend them toward the rotor instead? Maybe past the middle of the rotor magnet. Yes, they're north polarized, even though they wrap around the south pole of the stator magnet. The moving rotor magnet causes this.

Something new to try. --- thinking out loud ---

Cheers,

Randy
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #656  
Old 11-04-2015, 04:59 AM
wantomake's Avatar
wantomake wantomake is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 905
test standard

Thanks Cristian, Bromikey, and Randy.
Has a standard way to test ramps been posted yet? I've not seen one or I missed it.

This is how I test the ramp to find out if the rotor will be pulled past the stator magnet.
I move the rotor magnet slowly toward the ramp until it starts being pulled toward the attraction magnet. Let it freely move with no tap at all. This shows if there's any sticking point.

So far no acceleration past the stator magnet. Mind you if given a small tap it does accelerate past the magnet. And the balance is very good between the stator magnets.

I'm curious how you guys test your ramp.
Thanks guys,
wantomake
__________________
 

Last edited by wantomake; 11-04-2015 at 10:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #657  
Old 11-04-2015, 05:57 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
Thanks Christian, Bromikey, and Randy.
Has a standard way to test ramps been posted yet?

I'm curious how you guys test your ramp.
Thanks guys,
wantomake
I'll give that one a spin

(1) If your ramp does not come close enough to the rotor magnet
induction forces will not exceed the so called sticky spot.

(2) Single rotor magnet faced up with a single stator magnet might result
in a 30lb pull force at say a 5mm gap. When balance/cancellation is
achieved a pull force of 1 pound or less maybe considered normal.

(3) When step one is correct install a single ramp. If balance is lost then
repeat step one all over again till losses or the sticky spot is reduced
to the lowest level. Ramp tines to close to stator will greatly
increase imbalance.

(4) To test the ramp slowing bring the rotor magnet around until induction
from the "Y" ramp begins to pull the rotor magnet into it's field.

(5) If the rotor magnet is not accelerated sufficiently enough to make it
past the cancellation zone, ramp parameters should be reviewed.

(6) Ramp shaping, ramp angling, ramp mass should be changed so enough
momentum through acceleration can be realized to overcome the so
called left over magnetic lock.

(7) Ramp tine distance from the stator magnet and mass are a place to
start so increased inductive forces will eventually exceed the limited
cancellation losses.
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 11-04-2015 at 06:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #658  
Old 11-04-2015, 06:56 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by lorinrandone View Post
Hello everyone.
Look, everyone knows that I do not control the English. For this I pray, ..............................
Mickey, Bushing Bearing is good but we need to reduce the inside diameter to 10-12mm. cristian
Good picture Cristian. Okay I will use a small bearing.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #659  
Old 11-04-2015, 10:37 PM
shylo shylo is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 594
Nice work

Hi Christian,
You should put your ramps of both sides of the stator magnet.
I'm only using rotor magnets and layers of steel.
Watch how a magnet will be attracted, and then be hidden.
Just an idea, Nice work.
artv
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #660  
Old 11-05-2015, 10:18 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,130
I decided to start over going to step one.

I will be posting video about step one. In step one many possibilities

exist to achieve cancellation.

Mainly what I found with my rotor magnets is one side will cancel

while the other side is not. Since my rotor magnets are non adjustable

this stops me dead in my tracks. This junky test platform is good

for showing up sloppy work.

I'll be right back.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
magnet, magnets, rotor, magnetic, ramps, stator, motor, set, torque, attraction, degrees, repulsion, symmetry, time, shaft, work, ramp, build, attracting, material, provide, forces, thing, means, possibly

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Please consider supporting Energetic Forum with a voluntary monthly subscription.

Choose your voluntary subscription

For one-time donations, please use the below button.


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v1.4.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2007-2015 Copyright - Energetic Forum - All Rights Reserved

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator

Tesla Chargers