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  #511  
Old 10-10-2015, 06:47 PM
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Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
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About a simple question...

Hello to all,

There are two comments from two different members building here and I am citing them both below...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
It was never intended to self run nor increase acceleration by means of only two modules, two rotor magnets and two stators!...come on friend, you know that.
No Ufo, I don't know that. In my mind and confirmed by Mack, each module is a duplicate of the first. A module being what you showed in the video. In my mind we should see constant rotation or even acceleration from one module. Unless excessive losses due to crappy bearings, or large berings and shaft are being used. Then, as we add modules we add additional power. If one module is insufficient to cause rotation on its own, then additional modules will not help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
With only TWO stators and all the magnets on the rotor correctly tuned, it will either self run or it won't. Adding MORE stators will NOT make it work if it doesn't work with two, so don't waste your time!!!!! More stators will make it run faster and stronger, but unless it runs with just two, it will NEVER self run.
Dave
I would like to know where in this Thread do Mack writes that just Two Stators with their respective Ramps...and the rotor with All Magnets properly set and aligned ...This configuration is supposed to deliver a continuous rotation?

Honestly, I have not able to found such info written by Mack here...So, and if any of you has found it, please, by all means bring it on!!

I have absolutely nothing against that possibility though...and as a matter of fact I will be VERY happy to be that way!!...since for me at this point due to personal circumstances is very hard just to build a single ramp...So, nothing would be more relieving than knowing just two ramps will do a full-constant rotation even at 2 RPM's ...I really could care less about torque and speed...BUT a FULL, Continuous rotation would be more than enough to demonstrate this motor works... that simple.

Mack, whenever you have a chance,...please, correct me if I am wrong...or the other statement(s) cited above.

Right now, I am building Two more Ramps...which are much longer than the ones seen on video...plus I have all rotor magnets mounted...

The Ramps on Video are 45º in a Six Module set up where I have spaces of 60º between rotor magnets-stators......So, I have decided to also make ramps adjustable from 50º to 55º to play with them...and of course...the limit would be right there...in order to have at least 5º to get stators in when the whole assembly is on.


Regards to all


Ufopolitics
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  #512  
Old 10-10-2015, 07:37 PM
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Geometry

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post
A simple experiment.

Secure one of your neos to something. Take a nail and holding it by both ends touch the pole of the magnet with the nail crosswise to the magnet. Feel the amount of force it takes to pull the nail off.

Take the nail and touch the magnet crosswise with the pointed tip of the nail over the center of the face so the nail contacts only half of the magnet pole. Compare the amount of force it takes to pull it away. It's noticeably less.

Now take the nail and place the point of the nail in the center of the magnet pole, but this time hold the nail vertical to the magnet like you are going to hammer it in. It takes a lot less force to remove the nail.

In Ufo's video, look at 2:46, as the rotor magnet passes the stator at the top.

So, if one was to terminate the ramp to a point. Say, ending at the middle of stator magnet. The ramps "hold" on the rotor magnet would be diminished by geometry, even though the magnetic induction force is the same, as in the nail example. It's all in the geometry. Big heavy induction at the beginning, with gradual release using two forces. Decreasing distance between ramp and stator which maintains the pulling force past mass center, and shrinking mass through geometry which minimizes the release forces.

My next test,

Randy
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  #513  
Old 10-10-2015, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
Mike,
Get rid of that candle video. It's not even a good fake and totally irrelevant to what we are doing/discussing here.
Thanks,
Randy
What candle video?

@Mack

at 2:46 minute it shows the rotor magnet slowing and just how little

kick force is present with all of that power available in magnets.
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  #514  
Old 10-10-2015, 08:46 PM
MadMack MadMack is offline
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Ufo,
I never wrote it because I never got a 2 pole like this one to actually motor. Logically, you would think that it would, but that was not my experience. I am not an expert on magnetics by any stretch of the imagination and I can only explain how this works in layman's terms. The back pull from a ramp has to be eliminated or dissipated as much as possible. The rotor acceleration has to extend to the point where the next ramp can start to take hold of the rotor magnet before any remaining back pull from the previous ramp can exert itself. Watch the video again about 1:07. You can see the acceleration out to about 210 clockwise degrees from vertical, then there is a tug that slows the rotor back down. It's not enough to stop the rotor but it does slow it down. Ufo, I do not want to discourage you but the two ramps in the video need more work. I hinted at that in my last post. The bottom one is OK but could be just a little better. The opposite ramps are not identical in my motors, in case that helps.

This motor is similar to an internal combustion engine in this sense; the power produced is a sum of the power pulses in time. The more pulses per second, the higher the rate of power produced. It's the same with a gas engine, more HP as the rpm increases.


Tachyoncatcher,
I can't come right out and say where the ramps terminate. Sorry, that's a gray area I have to avoid. Study my reply to Ufo above. Otherwise, you got the idea. Remember the vectors at all times.

BroMikey,
At 2:46 you can see the rotor magnet experience a strong back pull right past the end of the top ramp.

Regards,
Mack
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  #515  
Old 10-10-2015, 08:51 PM
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Too much beef!

Mack,
What i get from that video in slo-mo is there is too much metal at the end and the ramp extends too far beyond the stator magnets.

Also, watching this brought to mind an image of my rotor passing the balanced magnets with no ramp. There is an acceleration, then deceleration that takes place as the magnets pass each other. It has got me thinking about the accelerations side and the ramps. I wonder if we can use the ramp ends to extend that acceleration of the rotor as it approaches the stators.

Thanks Mike.

Cheers,

Randy
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  #516  
Old 10-10-2015, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post

Take the nail and touch the magnet crosswise with the pointed tip of the nail over the center of the face so the nail contacts only half of the magnet pole. Compare the amount of force it takes to pull it away. It's noticeably less.

Now take the nail and place the point of the nail in the center of the magnet pole, but this time hold the nail vertical to the magnet like you are going to hammer it in. It takes a lot less force to remove the nail.

In Ufo's video, look at 2:46, as the rotor magnet passes the stator at the top.


Hi guys

What I think Mack is saying is that surface area/mass of the fork tips

and exposure area are all part of tuning. Mack says that UFO's video

has a kick back at 2:46 like Shylo was talkin


Look at the ramps. And think think think.....


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  #517  
Old 10-10-2015, 09:41 PM
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Hi Friends,

I also think that the ramps need to be shorter and more sharp at the stator, otherwise the tuning process of rotor and stator magnets to pass without of only a little drag would not make sense.

Best regards
Siggi
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  #518  
Old 10-10-2015, 09:50 PM
MadMack MadMack is offline
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The blunt end of the top ramp. If the ramp is good up to that point then what if from that point on, the vector force between the ramp tines and rotor magnet remained at 0 while rotation continued and the attraction between the tines and rotor could also be reduced to 0?

Regards,
Mack
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  #519  
Old 10-10-2015, 10:06 PM
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Luke, Feel the force!

Uh, I mean spread the force vectors. Spread the tines at the end. Couldn't help myself.

Randy
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  #520  
Old 10-10-2015, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post
The blunt end of the top ramp. If the ramp is good up to that point then what if from that point on, the vector force between the ramp tines and rotor magnet remained at 0 while rotation continued and the attraction between the tines and rotor could also be reduced to 0?

Regards,
Mack
Hey Mack

I have this idea.

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  #521  
Old 10-10-2015, 10:46 PM
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Hi Mack,
That's good info ,understand that it is important.
Thanks artv
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  #522  
Old 10-11-2015, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shylo View Post
Hi Mack,
That's good info ,understand that it is important.
Thanks artv
hey Shylo

You were right in that a small kickback was there, I stand corrected.

However Mack did say that we are at the turning point and that even like

it is, the motor will run with 6 - 8 stations for ramps and magnets.

I have also been thinking about 8 stator magnets and ramps verses just adding

rotor magnets. And I think we need all of the ramps to make it go.
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  #523  
Old 10-11-2015, 05:03 AM
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Listen to this guy talk about shielding on a neo magnet N52

1" X 2" X 1/4" The goal is to create a one way force. He uses tin,
plastic spacers and dead carbon battery to space also.

It is not like our motor but he is the only one on youtube that
goes into great detail.

What if we could make the sticky spot 0 through shielding?

This is what he points out, that there is a sticky spot and

then he shows you his shielding solution. In our case we have

cancelled out much of the sticky spot and at the same time

are using the forks to redirect flux without moving parts. Now we

have been directed to further reduce any reverse pull, and shielding

maybe one answer.



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  #524  
Old 10-11-2015, 05:23 AM
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As we all know Mack has stated that fork tine terminations are

not revealed by him due to his more advanced work being patented by

another group. What if there were another material in the gap between

tine and stator magnet that constitutes terminate? I don't know, but at

the same time as we seek out the shielding benefits, I wanted to suggest

termination using the right shape or material might enhance what we are

desiring. A one way pull just like we have now but with 0 kick back.

It is just speculation on my part. Eddy currents are a powerful force.

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  #525  
Old 10-11-2015, 06:44 AM
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Basic shielding knowledge base.

Our target is MAGNETIC SHIELDING not EMI shielding.

If you are like me you want to know how thick a standard shielding

metal should be. 1/4" or .001. In these videos you can find answers.

What types of materials? Magnetic Shielding facts. Ferite shielding as well.

If we are going to advance the design we need to come up to speed

on available information so we may GLEAN, there is that word, something

through experimental data on this rig. Some of you more advanced builders

do not need to view these materials so bare with me and those who

are unfamiliar with basic shielding application. It appears that all motors

using magnets have some form of shielding that redirects flux to one side.

Such as a hard drive magnet making flux stay on one side. MuMetal is a

high nickel content alloy and is not needed for this demonstration.

Save your nickels.













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  #526  
Old 10-11-2015, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post
I have thought long and hard about revealing the results of my magnet motor experiments but time is my enemy and time is growing short. I want to get this information out before it's too late so I wish to present to you a simple concept for a successful magnet motor. It is a basic rule of nature and that rule is balance. Yin and yang. There is symmetry in nature wherever you look.


Mack
sorry Mack but your idea based on symmetry is lacking IF symmetry is the key to your idea.

Einstein and company made the same mistake over 100 years ago and the mistake was not noticed until 1956 when parity violation of the 'symmetrical' four forces was observed.

theoretically your idea is a FAIL and I suspect your idea will never 'fly'



Here is where the big boys went wrong.
https://at37.wordpress.com/2012/03/2...asymmetry-etc/

selah
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  #527  
Old 10-11-2015, 11:37 AM
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Sequential

Gentlemen,
I have had an epiphany that has kept me awake most of the night so here I am, early morning, pecking away. Mack, you have described your motor as a modular device and in the fact that there are two types of NODES repeated radially it is. However, I and a few others, have been thinking of this motor in a modular sense. That the gain is a result of the interaction between the components of each module. Therefore the assumption that one module, carefully crafted, should create success. But as you have stated,
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post
Ufo,
I never wrote it because I never got a 2 pole like this one to actually motor. Logically, you would think that it would, but that was not my experience.
This can only mean one thing. This is a sequential device. The gain is realized BETWEEN the nodes, not in the nodes. For the sake of clarity, I will refer to the simplest form of this device, the 2 magnets ( 1 stator, 1 rotor ) and 1 preceding ramp as a NODE. The main thrust is the result of the bias between the nodes through the use of induction. Polarity has NOTHING to do with the gain. The node construction is to create a unit that causes an inductive differential between the entry and exit of each node through the use of geometric principals and careful balancing of the associated magnet polarities.

This motor works because each node has an inductive differential and so you will only realize the gain when the nodes are close enough in proximity that the rotor magnets can transition each node inductively, but not so close that the magnetic polarities of the node magnets interfere with their neighboring fields.

From here on, I will be working with two models. A two node system to test component design of a node. A second model to which will have a full compliment of 6-8 nodes to test the differential between nodes. The fact that Mack has had success with an 8 node system, ( 8 stators ) is evidence to the fact that we are realizing gain through induction differential between nodes not polarities. With 8 nodes you would have two North nodes and two South nodes side by side.

I think by using the above descriptors and the realization of where the gain is coming from, many normally open minded people who have previously thought this impossible, might be able to shift their thinking to the possibilities here that Mack has so graciously presented.

To Greater Understanding,

Randy
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  #528  
Old 10-11-2015, 02:53 PM
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Wrong assumption....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raphael37 View Post
sorry Mack but your idea based on symmetry is lacking IF symmetry is the key to your idea.

Einstein and company made the same mistake over 100 years ago and the mistake was not noticed until 1956 when parity violation of the 'symmetrical' four forces was observed.

theoretically your idea is a FAIL and I suspect your idea will never 'fly'



Here is where the big boys went wrong.
https://at37.wordpress.com/2012/03/2...asymmetry-etc/

selah
Raphael,

Mack's set up STARTS by Symmetrically setting all magnets in the system...so he obtains a perfectly balanced symmetrical zero forces system, cancelled by each opposite and equal number of counter forces...so up to here the system is Symmetrical...BUT, in order to achieve rotation, his ramps are Asymmetrical and in "sequence"...that is what brings motion to this device.


That is my opinion.


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #529  
Old 10-11-2015, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
Gentlemen,
I have had an epiphany that has kept me awake most of the night so here I am, early morning, pecking away.

Hey Tachyon, that is called obsession...consult your psychologist...

Just kidding...LOL


Quote:
Mack, you have described your motor as a modular device and in the fact that there are two types of NODES repeated radially it is. However, I and a few others, have been thinking of this motor in a modular sense. That the gain is a result of the interaction between the components of each module. Therefore the assumption that one module, carefully crafted, should create success. But as you have stated,

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post
Ufo,
I never wrote it because I never got a 2 pole like this one to actually motor. Logically, you would think that it would, but that was not my experience.
Not only that Tachyon, but He also stated in that same post...:

Quote:
The opposite ramps are not identical in my motors, in case that helps.
Which means exactly an "Asymmetry" on both Ramps...we were working on perfectly symmetrical ramps, upper and lower...well...wrong.


Quote:
This can only mean one thing. This is a sequential device. The gain is realized BETWEEN the nodes, not in the nodes. For the sake of clarity, I will refer to the simplest form of this device, the 2 magnets ( 1 stator, 1 rotor ) and 1 preceding ramp as a NODE. The main thrust is the result of the bias between the nodes through the use of induction. Polarity has NOTHING to do with the gain. The node construction is to create a unit that causes an inductive differential between the entry and exit of each node through the use of geometric principals and careful balancing of the associated magnet polarities.
BINGO!!...I believe you nailed it on your first part of above paragraph...it is a sequential device...

Starting by just one single "Module" including its two opposite and Unequal ramps, does a part of the sequential rotation, where ramps are -in each module- in a Sequence between them, where one starts and before it ends, offering the possibility of back drag...then the opposite starts at its strongest attract and take off ramp...to complete the sequence, throwing a full power stroke.

Quote:
This motor works because each node has an inductive differential and so you will only realize the gain when the nodes are close enough in proximity that the rotor magnets can transition each node inductively, but not so close that the magnetic polarities of the node magnets interfere with their neighboring fields.

From here on, I will be working with two models. A two node system to test component design of a node. A second model to which will have a full compliment of 6-8 nodes to test the differential between nodes. The fact that Mack has had success with an 8 node system, ( 8 stators ) is evidence to the fact that we are realizing gain through induction differential between nodes not polarities. With 8 nodes you would have two North nodes and two South nodes side by side.

I think by using the above descriptors and the realization of where the gain is coming from, many normally open minded people who have previously thought this impossible, might be able to shift their thinking to the possibilities here that Mack has so graciously presented.

To Greater Understanding,

Randy
The way I am trying to understand this is comparing it to a gas engine like Mack cites as well...

The SUM from the Two Ramps in a single Module are what offers the "Full compression stroke travel" for a single cylinder, building up the sufficient travel angle plus speed to rotor, so that in the sum between the two ramps, Rotor accelerates enough to reach compression TDC, and pass that point, generating the power stroke for that "Module-Cylinder".

Which makes sense...because IF we have Two Identical Ramps...like I had on video...then rotor will find symmetrical balance with identically set opposite ramps...

Then as we add each additional Module...they should also be in sequence with previous one...related now to Power Strokes...meaning that before Module One completes its power stroke...we should have Module Two working at the compression stroke two in the first ramp on the sequence, NOT just starting...in order not to allow "decay" or slow down rotor...and so on...

Related to the ending from ramps...Mack wrote this post previously related to ramp construction:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post
Regarding the relationship between a rotor magnet and a ramp+stator magnet, resulting in the rotational force actually applied to the rotor, the key is the manipulation and directing of the forces available.

Magnetic attraction or repulsion is a force.
Identify when, where, and the direction of, the force(s) in operation between the ramp and magnets. Manipulate the physical construction of the ramp to make the forces work in your favor. The ramp is more than a curved piece of rectangular iron.

Food for thought:
1 force cosine 0 degrees = 1 force
1 force cosine 90 degrees = 0 force

Mack
Then his last post on the ends of ramps...:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post
The blunt end of the top ramp. If the ramp is good up to that point then what if from that point on, the vector force between the ramp tines and rotor magnet remained at 0 while rotation continued and the attraction between the tines and rotor could also be reduced to 0?

Regards,
Mack
Now picture the rotor magnet vector of force...then the ramps end shape we are using so far...it is NOT 90º...but blending through circumference of rotor...what do we need to do?

Bend the tines back to reach that 90º related to traveling rotor magnets bisectors...

It is actually the same thing he did at the start from each ramp...bend it backwards and away from rotation.


Anyways that is just my interpretation...and I could be completely wrong...

And by the way Tachyoncatcher...when are we going to get to see your video(s)??

I want to see that "monstrosity"...


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #530  
Old 10-11-2015, 05:36 PM
MadMack MadMack is offline
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BroMikey,
Sorry, the ends in that ramp picture are completely wrong. You are not paying attention to the force vectors. Please, unless you know something I don't, let's drop the shunt or shielding discussion for now. Ramps first. We have to bake the cake before adding the icing

@Tachyoncatcher,
Quote:
...you will only realize the gain when the nodes are close enough in proximity that the rotor magnets can transition each node inductively,
Excellent. Very close.

Let's talk about Ufo's test device again, there is that nice kick from his repelling ramp at the bottom. What is responsible for that? Is it the attraction to the ramp and it's attendant acceleration? Is it a repelling field induced in the ends of the tines as the rotor magnet passes? A combination of the two? Is an induced repelling field in the tines collapsing later and suddenly re-attracting the rotor magnet? If that is the case shouldn't the rotor magnet field be transitioning to the next ramp before that happens?
The top ramp exhibits different behavior. There is no kick at the end of that ramp. It looks like an attracting field is being induced in the tine ends. If that is the case we need to neutralize that ramp as soon as it has done it's job of accelerating the rotor by changing the attraction vector to 0 (tines parallel to rotor magnet arc of travel) and reducing the magnetic attraction as much as practical (gradually reduce the mass of the tines) until the rotor magnet field can transition to the next ramp.
It's not all about gain, it's about loss prevention too. The two types of nodes have different properties so the ramps must be different to properly utilize them.

@Ufo,
Is the above scenario an accurate description of what is occurring with your test device ramps?

Regards,
Mack
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  #531  
Old 10-11-2015, 06:09 PM
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Collecting Gleaned Nuggets, It could be bent at the end of the repulsion
UFO!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post

The first step is finished. You can balance the magnets as needed.
We are at the second step, developing the ramp for the attraction magnets, without the repelling set.
After that comes the ramp for the repelling magnets, without the attraction set.
At this point you can determine the best rotor diameter.
Then, combine the action of the two ramps as a pair on the stator.
After that comes modifying the magnetic fields with shunts to assist rotation.
Then you will know exactly how to build the motor.


think about the magnetic flux involved between the rotor magnet, ramp, and stator magnet. Picture the flow of the flux in all directions as the rotor magnet passes along the ramp, it always takes the path of least resistance. We want the rotor flux to transition between straight attraction to the ramp, then angle off to both sides smoothly while providing the least amount of back pull. As the rotor magnet gets closer to the stator magnet the flux will transition to an attraction mostly between the magnets and this is where the ends of the ramp need to lose their influence on the rotor magnet.



Mack

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post
Guys, I'm sorry I can't post as often or as in-depth as I would like.

Ufo, my ramp pivot was nothing like the bell shape you posted ..................



...... I described could be called a “Y” with the stator magnet in the “V”. Don't be so much concerned about which branch has what polarity, but more about where are the attraction and repulsion forces and the direction they have. There will be some back drag as the split in the ramp widens and this needs to be compensated for as best as can be. It might help to picture the ramp as more like a scorpion, with a shorter tail sticking up, a hump backed body with the rear end elevated, and claws extended ahead. Looking at it from the top, the body and claws would resemble a “Y” shaped tuning fork. The fork tines would be parallel just before the stator magnet, giving the rotor magnet attraction or repulsion vectors to the ramp of 90 degrees to the direction of rotation. As the rotor magnet gets to the stator magnet there is nothing but air between the two.

I would like to point out that I have said nothing about the shape of the very ends of the ramp at the stator magnet, where the ends terminate, nor the various degrees of slope and rotor magnet clearance the ramp may have along it's length.

Regards,
Mack



Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post

I guess my ability to convey a design with words leaves a lot to be desired so from here on I will use drawings. Look at this one, it accurately shows the angle of the fork tines. It does not show the reduction in cross section or the ends of the fork tines. The angle of the upward bend at the left of the fork isn't exact either.

In the top view, the rotor magnet (dashed lines) at this point of rotation will be strongly attracted by the stator magnet. From this point onward is where the rotor's attraction to the ramp should be diminishing and where the cross section of the forks will be decreasing. By the time the two magnets are aligned we want the attraction to be between the two magnets with as little as possible left between the rotor magnet & ramp. How well this is accomplished has a great affect on the performance.

Regards,
Mack
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  #532  
Old 10-11-2015, 06:12 PM
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BroMikey BroMikey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post
BroMikey,
Sorry, the ends in that ramp picture are completely wrong. You are not paying attention to the force vectors. Please, unless you know something I don't, let's drop the shunt or shielding discussion for now. Ramps first. We have to bake the cake before adding the icing

Regards,
Mack
Thanks Mack, I'll drop the shunting expose til later. ........No points

for termination..........
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Old 10-11-2015, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post
Let's talk about Ufo's test device again, there is that nice kick from his repelling ramp at the bottom. What is responsible for that? Is it the attraction to the ramp and it's attendant acceleration? Is it a repelling field induced in the ends of the tines as the rotor magnet passes? A combination of the two? Is an induced repelling field in the tines collapsing later and suddenly re-attracting the rotor magnet? If that is the case shouldn't the rotor magnet field be transitioning to the next ramp before that happens?
The top ramp exhibits different behavior. There is no kick at the end of that ramp. It looks like an attracting field is being induced in the tine ends. If that is the case we need to neutralize that ramp as soon as it has done it's job of accelerating the rotor by changing the attraction vector to 0 (tines parallel to rotor magnet arc of travel) and reducing the magnetic attraction as much as practical (gradually reduce the mass of the tines) until the rotor magnet field can transition to the next ramp.
It's not all about gain, it's about loss prevention too. The two types of nodes have different properties so the ramps must be different to properly utilize them.

@Ufo,
Is the above scenario an accurate description of what is occurring with your test device ramps?

Regards,
Mack
Absolutely right and got the message behind as well!...


Thanks Mack!


Regards


Ufopolitics
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Last edited by Ufopolitics; 10-11-2015 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 10-11-2015, 06:26 PM
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Siggi1974 Siggi1974 is offline
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Hi Mack,

thanks for that. This was pretty clear. However my question then would be, why we cannot use repelling stators only and tune all ramps identical

Best regards
Siggi
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Old 10-11-2015, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post
...
@Tachyoncatcher,
Excellent. Very close.

Let's talk about Ufo's test device again, there is that nice kick from his repelling ramp at the bottom. What is responsible for that? Is it the attraction to the ramp and it's attendant acceleration? Is it a repelling field induced in the ends of the tines as the rotor magnet passes? A combination of the two? Is an induced repelling field in the tines collapsing later and suddenly re-attracting the rotor magnet? If that is the case shouldn't the rotor magnet field be transitioning to the next ramp before that happens?
The top ramp exhibits different behavior. There is no kick at the end of that ramp. It looks like an attracting field is being induced in the tine ends. If that is the case we need to neutralize that ramp as soon as it has done it's job of accelerating the rotor by changing the attraction vector to 0 (tines parallel to rotor magnet arc of travel) and reducing the magnetic attraction as much as practical (gradually reduce the mass of the tines) until the rotor magnet field can transition to the next ramp.
It's not all about gain, it's about loss prevention too. The two types of nodes have different properties so the ramps must be different to properly utilize them. ...
Dear Mack,
With the North facing rotors, we are chasing a South field down the ramps on both ends. On the repelling side based on Ufo's positioning of the ramp on the stator magnet, I would say the added length is needed to provide a place for that south field to move to. This then gives us the attraction seen that pulls the repelling rotor toward the end of the ramp. His ramp design and placement does not allow for inductive kick and this can be seen in the video. So, I don't believe the moving South field disappears, but gets moved to the bottom of the ramp where the opposing north field is weaker. Then moves to the end to create the pull we see of the rotor magnet to the repelling stator magnet. Yum, yum, my words taste good. Lol. So polarity IS used as a tool to further bias the nodes at the stator magnets.

Now with that said the attracting side is wholly different. The ramp has an inductive kick in front of the stator, but that moving South field is still present in the ramp. With ramps, as Ufo has them, this would amplify the South field of the stator and extend it past the stator magnet giving us the seen braking. So my take aways are such:
Attracting side-
The attracting ramp must end ~ the middle of the attracting stator magnet to end that moving field even with the magnet, for now. The ramp should terminate in such a way that the force vectors are as close to zero as possible and the mass is minimized at the center line of the stator magnet. I believe the ramp should also be near the face of the stator magnet.

Repulsion side-
The ramps should extend beyond the repulsive stator magnet. The end should be blunt and not too close to the face of the magnet. Mass at the end for the moving field to travel to. See Ufo's video of bottom ramp.

Thanks you Ufopolitics for the excellent video. It has been a great learning tool when used in slow motion. The process I use to view Youtube video in slow motion is by downloading the video, then viewing it with VLC media player. This allows you to slow the motion down as slow as you like. Something Youtube lacks.

Thanks All,

Randy
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Last edited by tachyoncatcher; 10-11-2015 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 10-11-2015, 07:43 PM
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BroMikey BroMikey is offline
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I just stopped in to add another Mack Quote but I want to say this

break down in scientific terms by you Randy has shown me that you

are a very technical guy and this is a gift of yours. I can only observe the

gift and enjoyed your take on the motor.


@UFO, I know you saw it the first time


Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMack View Post

We want the rotor flux to transition between straight attraction to the ramp, then angle off to both sides smoothly while providing the least amount of back pull. As the rotor magnet gets closer to the stator magnet the flux will transition to an attraction mostly between the magnets and this is where the ends of the ramp need to lose their influence on the rotor magnet.

Mack




We are cooking now.
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Last edited by BroMikey; 10-13-2015 at 03:19 AM.
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Old 10-11-2015, 10:36 PM
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lorinrandone lorinrandone is offline
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Gentlemen
As you know I do not control the English, but there are important things to say. I, such as you have imagined, I have not abandoned this project, so I
tests and tests with different materials to achieve the optimal ramps. I personally believe that the final ramp is incomplete.
I also believe that the ramp repulsion, not very different from the ramp of attraction but both are united in a kind of X, placed between stators north and south by neighboring pairs
Thus the management of the force vectors explained, just acting the X ramp, also explained that at this time we can
determining the extent as said rotor had Mack, considering the extent of the rampe combo. I can be wrong and the master Mack, you can correct me. Good luck in getting this engine.
best regards.

Ufo te lo suplico - corregirme si ha salido mal mi ingles.

Caballeros
Como los ustedes saben , yo no controlo el Inglés, pero hay cosas importantes que decir. Yo, como se han imaginado, no he abandonado este proyecto, por lo qual hice
ensayos y pruebas con diferentes materiales para conseguir las rampas óptimos. Personalmente, creo que la rampa final es incompleta.
Tambien creo que la rampa de repulsion, no esta muy diferente de la rampa de atraccion sino que las dos, son unidas en una especie de X, colocada entre los estatores de norte y sur por parejas vecinas
De este modo se explica la gestion de los vectores de fuerza, solo actuando la X ramp, tambien se explica porque en este momento podemos
determinar la medida del rotor como habia dicho Mack, pensando en la medida de la combo rampe . Me puedo equivocar y el maestro Mack, puede corregirme. Mucha suerte en lograr este motor.
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Old 10-11-2015, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorinrandone View Post
Gentlemen
As you know I do not control the English..........................

Thus the management of the force vectors explained, just acting the X ramp, also explained that at this time we can
determining the extent as said rotor had Mack, considering the extent of the rampe combo.

I can be wrong and the master Mack, you can correct me. Good luck in getting this engine.
best regards.
Thanks Cristian

I know you are still here

This is my idea.

@everyone

My past mistakes have been cleaned up or corrected including the last
ramp diagram with points on it. I use a big red X.
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Last edited by BroMikey; 10-13-2015 at 02:55 AM.
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Old 10-12-2015, 04:20 AM
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aguy aguy is offline
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food 4 thought

food 4 thought
it seems to me that a magnet on acceleration away from like pole should pull next magnet through gate a if it cant then the rotor should be linked[geared?] to outer dia magnets so that can be flipped changing pole
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Old 10-12-2015, 06:13 AM
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BroMikey BroMikey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aguy View Post
food 4 thought
it seems to me that a magnet on acceleration away from like pole should pull next magnet through gate a if it cant then the rotor should be linked[geared?] to outer dia magnets so that can be flipped changing pole
Hello aguy

Can I make a statement? I have needed to say this for 1 month. Not just for

you aguy but for everyone. I am going to ask you some questions. When you

answer these questions, you will understand. Is this okay?

Here we go.

Question #1
Do the people coming here know who started this thread?

Question #2
Do the people understand that Mack has 40 years of professional
experience in the industrial engineering field???

Question #3
Do the people understand that this motor with it's parts, as we are showing,
come from old patents or what is called "PRIOR ART"????

Question #4
Do the people understand that this build has been done several times and
other more advanced motors besides????

Question #5
Do the people realize that they keep making comments that suggest
that this motor might not work unless we hear their input, when this
motor we are building has been built before and is running using
the basic principles from Prior art.

Question #6
Do the people understand that Mack is only giving hints from day to day
as a means of helping us to be recipients of a first hand step by step
investigation into a worth while direction??????

Question #7
Do the people passing by even read the beginning of the thread?

This is not a guessing game in the respect that no one knows how,
it is a hinting method so that we may use out minds as we proceed to
actually understand the motor we are building.

This investigation is being handled in a way so that we may have
time to throw out all of the dogma surrounding the lies that magnet
motors are worthless. The method you see of daily hints and coaching
is done so that success will take place at the same time we get
why that it works, not the other way around.

The way most people get messed up is that they try to figure it out
first and use some math to back it up and then they know it doesn't work.

This process is only for those who are willing to put their hand to a
project who's course has already been charted by a man who has them
running on many levels.

We are not waiting for anyone else, just MACK and Mack is not waiting
for everyone to come by to correct his motor, that has already been done.
Mack is waiting for a few of us serious builders to complete the steps
laid out by him.

Of course we are not trying to be hateful so we want to you to understand
these questions. We thank you for your kind words of concern and your
offering in the form of knowledge you have gathered over the years.

Thank you for your interest. I hope you can understand my questions and
will consider this project for yourself and your friends. This is a done did deal
not a fake/guessing of what might be in the sweet by and by.

I hope everyone is clear on these facts and I have written these words
to encourage you. Start this build today.
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Last edited by BroMikey; 10-12-2015 at 06:21 AM.
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