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  #391  
Old 09-30-2015, 03:46 PM
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wantomake wantomake is offline
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cold roll

Ufo,
Thanks. Ok I'll order me a bit of cold roll steel. I'm using the n52's 1/2" that madmack suggested use.

And just to be clear for any newcomers, the build MUST be exact. I was off 1/16" on rotor magnet placement and got bad results. But in the process of correcting the measurements.

Thanks again old friend,
wantomake
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  #392  
Old 09-30-2015, 06:13 PM
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Build your own Gaussmeter
Build your own Gaussmeter
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  #393  
Old 09-30-2015, 10:26 PM
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Or buy one already made if you are lazy like me. It's designed to measure WEAK electromagnetic fields put off by ghosts, but should measure a magnets field just fine,
Amazon.com: The Ghost Meter EMF Sensor: Home Improvement
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  #394  
Old 09-30-2015, 10:48 PM
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I want to use cold roll first as instructed so i can use my prize

metal later, after I am sure of shape. When I think cold roll I think

of pipe. If any of you know some of the uses for cold roll or what

things are made of cold roll, I would be interested to hear that.

I probably have lots of it but I am not sure. For instance PC power

supply cases do not retain magnetism so i conclude that that might

be mad of cold roll. Also Mack says heat up metal red hot with my

torch and that will ruin the metal ability to remember.

I see UFO has what looks like just any ole plate of soft steel.

I will continue to look for cold roll online till I figure this out.

Thanks for the help gentlemen. The Homemade Hall meter looks

good to me. Thanks Cristian
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  #395  
Old 10-01-2015, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
... Also Mack says heat up metal red hot with my
torch and that will ruin the metal ability to remember....
Red hot heat does not "ruin" a metals magnetic ability. It scrambles the domains until the next time it is magnetized. The steel ramps will magnetize, but it works to test the viability of the motor. The extended ends will help minimize the counter effects. The only thing we can't beat is the eddy currents, but I'm betting it's not strong enough to stop the working of this or Mack wouldn't have suggested it.

Nice find Dave for a sensitive Gauss meter. The neos will peg that meter if trying to get a reading. Even cheapo ceramics will peg it. It tops out a 5 milligauss ( .005 ) neos will be over 2000.

Randy
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  #396  
Old 10-01-2015, 01:30 AM
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Hey Randy

Thanks for pointing out the cheapo meters failures.

What about steel welding rod? Like Bedini always uses? Isn't

that a cold roll steel? Come on guys somebody knows.


$1 per foot

Order Mild Steel 1018 Rectangle in Small Quantities at OnlineMetals.com
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  #397  
Old 10-01-2015, 01:54 AM
kenssurplus kenssurplus is offline
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cold rolled vs more advanced material

Mikey here is your homework done for you:

Steel - Rod - Â*The Home Depot

If you are going to go buy some material to test with, why not buy the right stuff? Unless you are trying to show a replication failure, it seems that one would make the efforts to obtain the correct material to test with. Some of the knowledge to be gained can come best from using the right material doing the right tests as we have been instructed to do.

From a post about high silicon steel found here: Practical Machinist | LARGEST MANUFACTURING TECHNOLOGY COMMUNITY ON THE WEB
High Silicon Steel?

Quote:
"Silicone decreases the solubility of carbon in iron, and for this reason a stronger steel can be obtained with less carbon than can be obtained without the silicone. When present in high-carbon steels silicone increases the brittleness but it imparts dynamic qualities to the steel and is often used in spring steel. Silicone steels are widely used for electrical purposes where a high permeability with low hysteresis loss is required. When used in transformer steel, the silicone range is about four per cent to five per cent. They are also used where corrosion resistance at elevated temperatures is desired, as in valve stems."

Practical Metallurgy for Engineers; E.F. Houghton & Co., 1943

Sounds like transformer steel. Unless theres some other odd alloying elements like Cr or Ni, then it could be a high temp. corrosion resistant alloy.

My bet, Transformer...Make a welding transformer, or a beatin stick
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  #398  
Old 10-01-2015, 02:07 AM
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What Kind of STEEL? COLD ROLL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenssurplus View Post
Mikey here is your homework done for you:



If you are going to go buy some material to test with, why not buy the right stuff? Unless you are trying to show a replication failure, it seems that one would make the efforts to obtain the correct material to test with. Some of the knowledge to be gained can come best from using the right material doing the right tests as we have been instructed to do.
yes I quite agree Ken, my time spent is worth something and I think you

twisted my arm on that one. Thank you for you kind directions. I want the

good stuff. I didn't know where to buy that either. So there it is, website

and I am off and running for the grain oriented, if I want. Wait I don't see

the good stuff. Anyone want to show a source here in the states?

Deeply appreciated.

Maybe I'll find a price?
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  #399  
Old 10-01-2015, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
Hey Randy

Thanks for pointing out the cheapo meters failures.

What about steel welding rod? Like Bedini always uses? Isn't

that a cold roll steel? Come on guys somebody knows.


$1 per foot

Order Mild Steel 1018 Rectangle in Small Quantities at OnlineMetals.com
I wasn't pointing out the failures, I actually bought one. I was pointing out what it will measure. Welding rod will magnetize too and due to it being parallel to the magnet movement, give you eddy currents through the length. Just use what Mack or wantomake or U.P. or myself is using. Flat, rolled iron or steel. If its not thick enough, do like U.P. and weld a couple pieces together for the thickness you are looking for. I used pieces of scrap metal from a old network switch casing. Eh, not ideal, but good enough for POC. I started with 1/4 plate steel, but didn't have enough and I'm too cheap to buy it before I prove it.

Randy
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  #400  
Old 10-01-2015, 03:45 AM
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hot or cold rolled steel

To All,
I fabricated my second ramp from cold rolled and it was brittle even after using a torch (to cherry red)and shaping it. After testing it did get magnetized "south" on the tail end, and "north" at the 150° bend. But the tines didn't magnetize any. This ramp was 3/16" thick which doesn't attract the rotor mags but taught me what is needed to push them past the attraction magnet.

Today I befriended the local metal fabrication shop guy. He said the hot rolled is much cheaper and better to bend as we need. This also needs to be heated to cherry red when bending and shaping. But he knows nothing about the magnetism aspect of the metal. If any type will magnetize then why not use an easy to fabricate metal. 1/2" x 1/2" x 2 ft cost $3.

If off track then I don't want to cause trouble for anyone. This is what I'm trying at this stage for myself. I have many old generators, ac motors, scrap this and that. So follow the good info posted already for your builds.

wantomake
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  #401  
Old 10-01-2015, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
I wasn't pointing out the failures, I actually bought one. I was pointing out what it will measure.
Oh, I see I goofed again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
Welding rod will magnetize too and due to it being parallel to the magnet movement, give you eddy currents through the length.
Oh thats right John B. didn't use those super strong Neo's, gotcha.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
Just use what Mack or ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' myself is using.
10/Roger


Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
Flat, rolled iron or steel. If its not thick enough, do like U.P. and weld a couple pieces together for the thickness you are looking for. I used pieces of scrap metal from a old network switch casing. Eh, not ideal, but good enough for POC. I started with 1/4 plate steel, but didn't have enough '''''''''''''''''''''

Good enough, now that's the kind of info I am looking for. Old network

case, right. Just like a PC case material, just rolled up factory steel

sent down the line to a press to make a shape at room temp.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
I'm too cheap to buy it before I prove it.
Oh ye of little faith Squeak squeak.





Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
To All,
I fabricated my second ramp from cold rolled and it was brittle even after using a torch (to cherry red)and shaping it. After testing it did get magnetized "south" on the tail end, and "north" at the 150° bend. But the tines didn't magnetize any.
Thats what i was afraid of. I cut my transformer steel with a pair of

scissor style tin snips and wow is this thin metal hard to cut. There is

a slight burr so i gently correct all of the edges by tapping each piece

with a very small hammer. Very wide hammer head. First lay your pieces

on a 1/4" plate of steel that is not all beat up

The local scrap yard is bound to have a pile of transformers I can pick

through like those big welders have. Better yet, I will go find a fresh

piece of steel somewhere that is Si-Fe. That's SILICON STEEL and

I have always known that but every time I go look for some they are

selling a tractor trailer full.
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  #402  
Old 10-01-2015, 01:52 PM
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About Ramps Material...

Hey Guys,

The Ramp am working on is from Cold Roll Steel, a 1/4X1/4" SQUARE ROD-BAR sold at Home Depot...cheap...around $3.00, and I believe they also have the 1/2X1/2".

I did not torch it...it was bent cold as well and a lot of hammering and bench-vise pressing like seen on previous pictures...

[IMG][/IMG]

Now, the way I see this motor functioning...we are going to have permanent magnetizing-redirection of the Stators ending Pole to each corresponding Ramp, which would be eventually a next to each others chains of N-S-N-S-N-S...So, that means that each Stator would be inducing at all times each respective ramp which its fork tines are around their front end pole...as Rotor magnets would be ALL the same polarity...whether All North or All South (your choice) And what I mean by writing this...is that I don't see the point on being so "extremely picky" about the steel "memory" or spec's if Ramps would be ALWAYS getting same Influence/Induction at all times from either Stators or Rotor Magnets...

Hope you all understand what I mean...

As I also understand we still have no idea how the repulsion Ramps would look like...and then it could change this above scenario every 180º.

I also realize that Mack recommended to use low magnetic retention iron. And I have tested at many different models the cold steel rods...or flat strips...and I have not ever needed to red heat them...and so far they do not retain magnetism...

Now magnetic or electromagnetic machines that keep constantly swapping polarities in a symmetrical fashion does not require the steel to be that specific for magnetic memory retention, since every cycle they reverse so actually make an automatic "resetting" of domain orientation.

I would really spend more time on getting the closest gap possible...and the best, no cogging balancing which is ESSENTIAL for this motor to operate. And like Wantomake wrote before...the precision error should be minimized to almost a perfect zero error...even being a theoretical statement.

Just one degree or one millimeter difference between rotor magnets positioning would cause not to reach a perfect balancing...that simple...

[IMG][/IMG]

and remember Mack used automotive feeler gauges to set rotor shaft distances to rotor magnets...as well as air gaps and all measurements.


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #403  
Old 10-01-2015, 08:13 PM
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Siggi1974 Siggi1974 is offline
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Rotor setup

Hi,

Here my rotor design.

Best regards
Siggi
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  #404  
Old 10-01-2015, 10:11 PM
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Who said we ain't got a Running Motor Video!!??

Quote:
Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
Where is the video of your running magnetic motor ?
Hey Bogus,

Were you saying We ain't got a Running Motor Video?!!

Watch below:





MAGNETIC MOTOR RUNNING VIDEO

































Take care


Ufopolitics
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  #405  
Old 10-01-2015, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Hey Bogus,

Were you saying We ain't got a Running Motor Video?!!



Take care


Ufopolitics


Now that is funny



UFO, you are a hard man, thanks 4 giving your knowledge

freely.



I made another version of the cold roll ramp, not a problem.


Nice motor.:
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  #406  
Old 10-01-2015, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Hey Bogus,

Were you saying We ain't got a Running Motor Video?!!

Watch below:

...
Take care


Ufopolitics
U funny man

Randy
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  #407  
Old 10-02-2015, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
U funny man

Randy
Nice shot of the MADMACK motor. Some folks have all the fun.

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  #408  
Old 10-02-2015, 05:51 AM
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Ok.That was funny. What about the REAL running magnetic motor in REAL world ?
Btw you didn't realized I posted old patent describing similar embodiment with additional ratched device and lever? Two opposite side magnets must be moved simultaneously using lever and rotor is advanced by ratched device working on the shaft gear. it worked in 1918 and I'm sure it would work now
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  #409  
Old 10-02-2015, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
I posted old patent describing similar embodiment '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' it worked in 1918 and I'm sure it would work now
Posted it where, on your desktop? Where? I don't see anything.
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  #410  
Old 10-02-2015, 06:09 AM
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Newton's law always apply and I deduced "magnetic rules" from them ,one of them is :
if there are no combined forces (like aded torque from gravity or electric circuit) then
for magnetic motor to run in one direction it has to be a part of device moving in opposite direction, the overall movement cancel to zero momentum in outside point of view.

You can call it "bogus-law"
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  #411  
Old 10-02-2015, 06:11 AM
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you don't see it because I posted it on overunityresearch.com forum
but I'm not supressing information - I'm spreading it out
So here you have it......
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  #412  
Old 10-02-2015, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
you don't see it because I posted it on overunityresearch.com forum
but I'm not supressing information - I'm spreading it out
So here you have it......

Fair enough Bog-ManI'll try to make heads or tails out of this

patent. I think you are saying that I can learn a truth about

forces from this device? I don't know how good I am at reading

these documents shrouded with deliberate lies. If you could repeat

yourself as to what you have gotten out of this, maybe I will

learn something from it. What do you say about the Magnetic

motor patent? Yes it has a horse shoe magnet and gears.
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  #413  
Old 10-02-2015, 09:37 AM
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This is what you are trying to make : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw3iONtBM0E

but what I posted is much powerful based on the same principle, but obviously require very good skills in mechanics
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  #414  
Old 10-02-2015, 02:16 PM
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Completely Different Machines...

Quote:
Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
This is what you are trying to make : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw3iONtBM0E

but what I posted is much powerful based on the same principle, but obviously require very good skills in mechanics
Hey Bogus Man,

That Motor you have shown is all about "Moving Mechanical Parts" in order to achieve rotor spin...

The Concept displayed here by MadMack is all about STATIONARY Parts except the Rotor assy...So, Rotor Magnets are stationary/fixed to rotor plate, and so Stators, Ramps, Shunts, etc ...NONE move here at all except rotor assembly.

Stationary Ramps generate a Positive to rotation Unbalance to our previously balanced rotor-stators.

What's the matter?...didn't you watch My Motor Running Video?!...Didn't you notice ALL Ramps were stationary?

[IMG][/IMG]

The Motor you have seen on video is just a reproduction in CGI from the REAL one...which is still in the process to be finished.

There are many, many other motors like the one you have shown...where stators or ramps swivel/move...and that go faster too.


Take care and be patient...


Ufopolitics
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  #415  
Old 10-02-2015, 03:15 PM
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Nice rotor...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggi1974 View Post
Hi,

Here my rotor design.

Best regards
Siggi
[IMG][/IMG]

Hey Siggi, nice rotor design...

Just make sure the locking bolts-plastic washers do lock very secure, cause the stator's magnets are gonna try very hard to get them center aligned...basically the attract stage...throwing off your gap and angles.

I used four brass bolts-nuts plus a dual brass bracket to secure rotor magnets firmly.

Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #416  
Old 10-02-2015, 04:28 PM
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Thanks!

Hey Ufo,

thanks for the Feedback. Can you perhaps post a picture of your fixing? I am considering to fix the Magnet carrier completely by glueing after adjusting.....

Thanks again mate.

Best regards
Siggi
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  #417  
Old 10-02-2015, 04:50 PM
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Four Poles...not good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggi1974 View Post
Hey Ufo,

thanks for the Feedback. Can you perhaps post a picture of your fixing? I am considering to fix the Magnet carrier completely by glueing after adjusting.....

Thanks again mate.

Best regards
Siggi
Siggi,

I will later this afternoon...can't now.

Now, I wouldn't fix rotor magnets on just the two poles, till you have the next pair ramp, since as you add magnets poles you will have to keep adjusting...

I am also noting that you´ve already made holes at 90º for a Four pole...which is not going to work...the smallest number-combinations that will work is Six poles, meaning every 60º...as per Mack´s first post...


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #418  
Old 10-03-2015, 05:38 AM
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Hey Ufo,

I see... I will consider a six pole for the stator design already but will start testing and adjusting with a two pole rotor and check if I can do it, like explained by Madmack.

Best regards
Siggi
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  #419  
Old 10-03-2015, 09:26 AM
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I have some thoughts to share with those who have a balanced mag-motor

through following directions. Then we can add an attraction side fork

for the number 2 step in this process of moving forward. The question

arises as I have spun my 2 poled cell. How might the other side (Repulsion)

look compared to the attraction? The answer comes back like this.

This answer comes from common deductive reasoning some might

call speculative.

(1st) We must consider what we have been directed to do "UNDERSTAND"

understand what is going on with the first and second step. We see powerful

forces generated by neo magnets set to cancel each other. Always keep

this in mind. Next we divert the attraction side stator magnet pole with

what we call a ramp. This field is derived from the stator magnet, inducing

a rotor magnet into the direction of rotation for a time period until released.

The induction ramp accelerates the rotor magnet and does so without

any reversing effects by passing the ball so to speak. Passing the rotor

magnet through the window of the fork and allowing it to go free just

in time for the cancellation process.


So whatever is added to the repulsion side to create balance must also

release it's effects just in time for the repulsion side cancellation.


So I ask you this, as I asked myself the same question, what might the

repulsion side induction ramp look like? Or maybe you are thinking

that the repulsion side is left empty?

Or maybe it is not a ramp at all?


We know that the system cancellation has been referred to as

BALANCING the cell, so in order to achieve balance we might be

doing the same thing on the repulsion side as we have

been instructed to do on the attraction side? Or almost?



If this is true (Only a speculation) then a single cell needing to be

balanced might have the same induction ramp on the repulsion side to

aid the POWER STROKE. Then the repulsion ramp window would act

the same way to release the rotor magnet just in time to go through

the cancellation process once again.


Since the repulsion side is pushing the rotor magnet away from the

stator magnet a north pole rotor magnet would need a south field

induction ramp. So the forks would go on the back? I don't know if

that make sense. If so this would make a repulsion ramps shape

different. Or would the forks be closer to the stator magnets south?


All healthy questions.


However since repulsion forces are slightly weaker than attractive

forces the feeler gauges would need to come out. Another idea would

be to compensate for the weaker forces by a slight increase in mass

for repulsion ramps. Or changing the angle on the repulsion side to

a closer position as compared to the gap on the attraction side.

Again the feeler gauges come out.


As I said all speculation, but this is the way I think things through.

Balance must be maintained as well as induction.


As I see it now on the attraction side a north pole rotor magnet

is temporarily induced in the direction of rotation by a south field then

that field goes back to it's origin (STATOR MAGNET) for cancellation.


In the case of the repulsion side you can also deduct many things.

Starting with the fact that no physical space has been allotted for

a ramp to be mounted after the cancellation process. This leaves us only

a space to work with before the cancellation process takes place just as

we see with the attraction side.


The $50,000 question is what might the third step look like with these

facts in mind? What it looks like to me is the same process in the reverse

format. Just kidding around. I am only having fun

speculating. For those of you who do not understand, this is called

deductive reasoning. Mikey's Mental Pinball.

Either way this is an exciting moment in history if you ask me and we

will have to leave the next directive to our highly favored MadMack
.
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  #420  
Old 10-03-2015, 04:28 PM
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Think Simple

Mike,
In my opinion you have to expand your thinking beyond the polarity. If we think only of polarity, we have balance. No rotation. I'll refer to a comment I made earlier in this thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
Thanks for that Mack. It is the direction I have been moving. It has been my thought process that with the polarity in balance you must have another force to cause the rotation. That of inductive attraction, not polarity. If it was strictly polarity, you would have balance, an equal push and pull. Not a formula for movement.
The ramps on the attraction stator accelerates the rotor due to magnetic induction, not because the stator magnet is attracting.
Mike, when I refer to "magnetic induction" I'm talking about the attractive force between the rotor magnet and the iron, not the polarity. The reasons for the split is to minimize the inducement from the stator magnets. So you see, we are not sharing the polarity of the stator magnet with the ramps. Quite the opposite. The polarities of the stator and rotor magnets will come into play later. Once we have ramps that cause acceleration of the rotor with stator and rotor magnets in perfect balance.

What's worth repeating is there are two separate forces at work in this motor and are treated as separate with careful engineering and attention to geometry to keep them that way. The attractive force of a magnet to iron/steel and the balanced polarity forces of the magnets to each other. In my opinion, this is what makes this different from all the other "magnet motors" out there. No wasted movement to bias the magnetic fields.

Something to keep in mind, a magnet will seek the closest point to the middle of the iron mass. This is why we angle the ramps. The rotor magnet keeps trying to get closer by rotating to the smaller gap of the ramp. Simple.

Randy
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Last edited by tachyoncatcher; 10-03-2015 at 04:38 PM.
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