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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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  #1651  
Old 08-12-2017, 03:53 AM
FRANKLIN FRANKLIN is offline
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s

Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
Clarence,
Sorry, maybe too much coffee and not enough sleep.

Question my ole friend, you using the 150 volt GDT? I tried the 90 volt GDT when testing the inverter/battery connection. But after connecting a second load to the setup that 90 volt heated up to like 120į+ real quick.
I'm sure it's because my ground grid (dirt) is too small and it tried to do that "fool the meter thing".
That test proved more the extracting of energy from mother earth.

Work (part time retired), life, and the preppers, I can't get caught up here. Yes the end of the world is near cause of the crazies in North Korea. Not my view point of course.

My brains and energy is stretch thin these days !!!!!
wantomake
Hello
Do you know if it is possible to use IRON instead of COPPER to do the conections to the earth?
it is because the copper is very expensive.
and the IRON bars are cheaper, but I do not know what do you think?

thanks
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  #1652  
Old 08-12-2017, 04:38 AM
level level is offline
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Hello wantomake. Sorry I do not follow your comment. I have not been making any negative statements whatsoever. I have however been stating facts. You need to re-read the comments if you think I have been saying anything negative. Just because some people may not want to hear the facts, it does not make those facts 'negative'.

Someone asked what happened to B&L and I posted a couple of comments giving some factual info on what happened to them and what they are up to now. By no stretch of the imagination is that 'negative'. I provided links that backup what I have said. I am sorry if you find those facts 'negative'.

At this point, given that Barbosa and Leal appear to have completely dropped anything to do with the 'Captor free energy' devices that they were previously marketing, it appears most likely to me that they came to the conclusion that the jig was up and trying to pass off their ground loop devices as 'Captor free energy' devices was not likely going to lead anywhere but get them thrown in jail. I won't say that I think that it is for certain that it was a scam, but given that B&L have apparently now completely dropped anything to do with their 'Captor' devices and have started a new company that is marketing a new chemical process, it certainly might be the case.

Some people might speculate that their technology was 'suppressed', but given what we know about them and their devices, it seems more likely they stopped marketing them because they really only 'worked' by using a ground loop and by 'fooling' the power meter. Whether it could fool a power meter depends on where you live in the world (the type of mains power system that is used) and what kind of power meter you have on your house or building.

Also, don't forget that 'Ariovaldo' obtained an actual device that was made by B&L and neither the person Ariovaldo obtained the B&L device from nor Ariovaldo got it to work. The excuse by B&L to the original purchaser that they didn't have enough ground rods installed seems weak. Clarence put in a whole massive pile of ground rods and tried really hard to make it work and he didn't fare any better after two years. It really is not looking good at all for the B&L Captor devices at this point, in my own opinion anyway.

If some people think that people should only post comments here that promote a belief in something regardless of what the actual facts are, then I think that is not helpful for anyone. No doubt at least some people will appreciate knowing the facts of the situation before shelling out a bunch of money and effort to try something like this. There is nothing at all wrong with being realistic as far as I am concerned anyway.

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  #1653  
Old 08-12-2017, 04:48 AM
level level is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRANKLIN View Post
Hello
Do you know if it is possible to use IRON instead of COPPER to do the conections to the earth?
it is because the copper is very expensive.
and the IRON bars are cheaper, but I do not know what do you think?
thanks
Hello Franklin. I am not aware of anyone who was ever able to get a B&L device to show any over unity, so unfortunately no one knows what might work and what won't work. Your guess is as good as anyone else's at this point.

In theory, copper is a better conductor than iron. You can buy copper clad iron rods, which should be a bit cheaper than pure copper rods, but again keep in mind that it appears that no one has ever been able to get a B&L device to actually produce over unity. At least no one has ever been able to demonstrate any over unity in a reasonably convincing way with this type of setup other than what Barbosa and Leal have claimed in their videos and patents.

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  #1654  
Old 08-12-2017, 05:15 AM
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BroMikey BroMikey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post
BroMikey,

He seems to have gone from moldy bones to a study on passed Gas.
Wonder what his next study will be?

Clarence
I smell an old man's pipe as he goes off his rocker in a rocking chair
blues. Cain do this and Cain do that, same ole Level Bug out bag in
hand ole Level is ready. He is such a sweet heart just like so many
people who are a nervous wreck when it comes to electricity especially
utility mains, GOD FORBID.

Without us he would still be all alone in his coma rocking chair blues, so
it is good for level to rant a little.

Same ole BLUE MAN scare tactics. It's okay God makes all kinds.
Only a few engine men and so many brakemen. So he has got to recast
the thread in his own image after his likeness, THE BLUE MAN SYNDROME"

I remember when he first made this thread how he had what was equivalent
to a rusty iron wire stuck in the ground with a pale over his great big
hot light bulb. Then he made it into a joking mystery to mock the idea
by laying in wait to trap people really enthusiastic, so he could laugh at
them.

That says it all. Level loves to play tricks and his desire is to ruin.

That is how bitterness and hate manifest, it never hopes good tho it
will SAY it does. Actions can be weighted, they speak the very loudly.

Be ready for anything now that you have broken the glass ceiling.










Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
level,
I'm a little confused about your post here.

You say it's not to debunk this setup and that you are a nice guy.

But 8 of your 10 post have been negative or debunking.

People here are wanting to replicate this invention of B&L. Leave it be.

Aaron if I'm out of order, then I'll delete this post.
Since when should Aaron correct anyone for speaking their mind?
That is what Aaron is all about. He's here to see to it
that we are able to speak freely.
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  #1655  
Old 08-12-2017, 05:32 AM
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clarence clarence is offline
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Still the same braindead sxxt

Quote:
Originally Posted by level View Post
Hello wantomake. Sorry I do not follow your comment. I have not been making any negative statements whatsoever. I have however been stating facts. You need to re-read the comments if you think I have been saying anything negative. Just because some people may not want to hear the facts, it does not make those facts 'negative'.

Someone asked what happened to B&L and I posted a couple of comments giving some factual info on what happened to them and what they are up to now. By no stretch of the imagination is that 'negative'. I provided links that backup what I have said. I am sorry if you find those facts 'negative'.

At this point, given that Barbosa and Leal appear to have completely dropped anything to do with the 'Captor free energy' devices that they were previously marketing, it appears most likely to me that they came to the conclusion that the jig was up and trying to pass off their ground loop devices as 'Captor free energy' devices was not likely going to lead anywhere but get them thrown in jail. I won't say that I think that it is for certain that it was a scam, but given that B&L have apparently now completely dropped anything to do with their 'Captor' devices and have started a new company that is marketing a new chemical process, it certainly might be the case.

Some people might speculate that their technology was 'suppressed', but given what we know about them and their devices, it seems more likely they stopped marketing them because they really only 'worked' by using a ground loop and by 'fooling' the power meter. Whether it could fool a power meter depends on where you live in the world (the type of mains power system that is used) and what kind of power meter you have on your house or building.

Also, don't forget that 'Ariovaldo' obtained an actual device that was made by B&L and neither the person Ariovaldo obtained the B&L device from nor Ariovaldo got it to work. The excuse by B&L to the original purchaser that they didn't have enough ground rods installed seems weak. Clarence put in a whole massive pile of ground rods and tried really hard to make it work and he didn't fare any better after two years. It really is not looking good at all for the B&L Captor devices at this point, in my own opinion anyway.

If some people think that people should only post comments here that promote a belief in something regardless of what the actual facts are, then I think that is not helpful for anyone. No doubt at least some people will appreciate knowing the facts of the situation before shelling out a bunch of money and effort to try something like this. There is nothing at all wrong with being realistic as far as I am concerned anyway.

GO somewhere and find an empty closet - go inside - shut the door and stay there forever.
All you are is an annoying repetitious PARROT.

Clarence
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  #1656  
Old 08-12-2017, 08:33 AM
Coil Coil is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post
Coil,

First of all my setup does not have a GFCI in it.
It is simply plugged into a wall outlet.
The 150 volt GDT serves as the safety feature- for voltage surges, lighting strikes, etc.
A direct connection to ground WILL cause the Breaker to trip.
I did disconnect Both of the toroid neutral legs and the system still runs as before HOWEVER when a sizable load
is placed on the system the BLUE wire Loop DOES SHOW increased Amperage THRU IT ALSO. The thought that it does nothing at all is you know what.
With the system reconnected as should be the lenz-less oscillation of the loop
THROUGH the ground return DOES enhance (PUMP) the energy from the ground. So it truly does serve it's purpose .

Clarence
Hello Clarence

I donít quite understand your explanation regarding connecting the load directly to live and earth that will cause the breaker to trip. At the moment the load is connected that way. What is causing the breaker not to trip?

Have a nice day

Coil
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  #1657  
Old 08-12-2017, 09:21 AM
level level is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padova View Post
And OP level really sound's a bit negative
Not at all. Just being realistic. Clarence has been misleading people for two years on this. People should be aware of this. If Clarence had done some of the simple testing that was suggested to him right from the beginning two years ago he would have realized within a couple of weeks that there is nothing out of the ordinary going on with this setup. Maybe in another two years it will finally start to sink in with Clarence what a ground loop is and why you can't test this kind of setup using the mains if you want to have any hope of getting meaningful results, but I wouldn't count on it. Sorry if that seems negative, but it is just the reality of the situation.

In my opinion, people are just as well off taking one thousand dollars in cash out to their backyard and burning it all in a burning barrel. They will throw away about the same amount of money, but they will save a lot of time and effort doing it this way rather than wasting time on any sort of Barbosa and Leal setup. Just my opinion.

Reality, what a concept!

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  #1658  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:35 AM
pedroxime pedroxime is offline
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I have been several times in Brazil. Power electric companies are very very powerfull , the most odvious is they arrived to some deal to forget the full thing and focus in other projects.
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  #1659  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:15 AM
level level is offline
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Originally Posted by pedroxime View Post
I have been several times in Brazil. Power electric companies are very very powerfull , the most odvious is they arrived to some deal to forget the full thing and focus in other projects.
Hello pedroxime. Anything is possible, but if you take a close look at how these Barbosa and Leal devices were supposed to work, and all the internal components and the way they should be connected have been confirmed by a very thorough tear down of an actual B&L built device by Ariovaldo, then it seems unlikely that these devices did anything but rely on a ground loop and maybe fool the power meter in some countries. It seems more likely to me that it was made clear to Barbosa and Leal that they could go to jail for fraud if they continued to try to sell their 'Captor' devices and so they completely dropped them and moved onto something else.

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  #1660  
Old 08-12-2017, 12:55 PM
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clarence clarence is offline
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Misunderstanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coil View Post
Hello Clarence

I donít quite understand your explanation regarding connecting the load directly to live and earth that will cause the breaker to trip. At the moment the load is connected that way. What is causing the breaker not to trip?

Have a nice day

Coil
Hello Coil,

Fist of all , let me thank you for your question.
Your perplexity is justified. My reference to the breaker tripping only concerned the GDT circuit itself. I'm sorry that I did not make that clear.
The clarification for that is this, If the GDT were actually removed from that individual circuit it would in essence be a direct short and cause the breaker to trip and automatically shut the whole system down. That can also happen if the GDT is in place but is of a lower arc-over voltage than the system voltage - say for example 120 volts AC.if a 120 volt GDT were to be used it would automatically trigger because it is designed to do just that at that voltage. That is why any GDT used has tobe at a HIGHER voltage rating than the system is based on, That is why I use a 150 volt rated GDT in this circuit.
That let's it act as the safety feature for the whole system. ANY type of voltage surge will enable it to dropout the whole system and protect all the components and loaded items presently being powered by this system.
Please forgive me for not making that clear to you Sir.
And again , thanks for your question - hope this helps.

Respectfully ,

Clarence
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  #1661  
Old 08-12-2017, 04:15 PM
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clarence clarence is offline
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Off grid & running

Wantomake,

Early this AM (bout 2 AM) I simply unplugged my system from the AC wall plug
and plugged it into my inverter (3000 watt aims)- Its Smart charger was already connected to the battery/capacitor bank so i plugged it in as a load
on the setup.
Turned the inverter on and it started same as it did on AC. It keeps the battery level constant and runs light loads. It's been running for nine hours now so I'll just let it continue.

The limiting factor for loads is the Factory Built Amperage internal capability of of the inverter itself. AN inverter with internal design capability of 10 amps max won't handle but slightly less than that. Even tho its possible to pull large amp loads through the ground the inverter limit stops that from happening.

When you get yours going you can work all that out for your self as your needs see fit..

Hope every thing is coming along good.

Clarence
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  #1662  
Old 08-12-2017, 07:35 PM
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BroMikey BroMikey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post

Early this AM (bout 2 AM) I simply unplugged my system from the
AC wall plug and plugged it into my inverter (3000 watt aims)-
Its Smart charger was already connected to the battery/capacitor
bank so i plugged it in as a load on the setup.


Turned the inverter on and it started same as it did on AC. It keeps
the battery level constant and runs light loads. It's been running for
nine hours now so I'll just let it continue.

The limiting factor for loads is the Factory Built Amperage internal
capability of of the inverter itself. AN inverter with internal design
capability of 10 amps max won't handle but slightly less than that.
Even tho its possible to pull large amp loads through the ground the
inverter limit stops that from happening.

That is awesome, so you are running your system on an inverter and
it works the same within the limits of the device. Sweet deal, just
under 10 amps with your boxes to date. That is so cool.

So all you need is a 6000 - 8000 watt box to go on up to 20 plus amps.

Someone sold me one of those for $200 that ain't no money of course is
is the modified sine wave type but hey I hear the guys in the back ground
talking about going ups which is nothing more than a simple switching
toggle of mosfets thru a transformer block. It might lose a tiny efficiency
but that would be negligible.

You really are a phenomena
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  #1663  
Old 08-12-2017, 09:32 PM
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wantomake wantomake is online now
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Good time out

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post
Wantomake,

Early this AM (bout 2 AM) I simply unplugged my system from the AC wall plug
and plugged it into my inverter (3000 watt aims)- Its Smart charger was already connected to the battery/capacitor bank so i plugged it in as a load
on the setup.
Turned the inverter on and it started same as it did on AC. It keeps the battery level constant and runs light loads. It's been running for nine hours now so I'll just let it continue.

The limiting factor for loads is the Factory Built Amperage internal capability of of the inverter itself. AN inverter with internal design capability of 10 amps max won't handle but slightly less than that. Even tho its possible to pull large amp loads through the ground the inverter limit stops that from happening.

When you get yours going you can work all that out for your self as your needs see fit..

Hope every thing is coming along good.

Clarence
Clarence,
Thanks for your perseverance and just being patient all this time.

I'm away from home with the wifey celebrating our 40th. Yes it tells my age and craziness.

I'm so happy to open my Kindle fire tablet and the first post I see is this one. That's great and inspiring to read. If we can power this system with ONLY an inverter/battery setup, then the sky is our limit ole friend.

As a veteran missionary I've battled with devils, demons and yes people too. But to see this success will shut the mouths of the haters and tptb. There's no greater reward than helping others toward better living and finding FE from this our mother earth.

I appreciate you letting this ole Carolina coffee chaser be a part of this adventure plus know you as a friend.

J. or wantomake

Added comment: To anyone not adding to the betterment or helping this thread - I will not respond to any of your post. It's a waste of valuable space and time. Bromikey, Clarence, let's ignore the above mentioned and let them voice their opinions and then will go away.
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Last edited by wantomake; 08-12-2017 at 09:46 PM.
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  #1664  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:01 PM
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clarence clarence is offline
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Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
Clarence,
Thanks for your perseverance and just being patient all this time.

I'm away from home with the wifey celebrating our 40th. Yes it tells my age and craziness.

I'm so happy to open my Kindle fire tablet and the first post I see is this one. That's great and inspiring to read. If we can power this system with ONLY an inverter/battery setup, then the sky is our limit ole friend.

As a veteran missionary I've battled with devils, demons and yes people too. But to see this success will shut the mouths of the haters and tptb. There's no greater reward than helping others toward better living and finding FE from this our mother earth.

I appreciate you letting this ole Carolina coffee chaser be a part of this adventure plus know you as a friend.

J. or wantomake
Wantomake,

Good to hear back.
Hope that your off grid works as well.
Adding in other system additives that are known about already, such as solar
charging,larger battery banks, alternating battery banks, etc, can help also.
All things take time, but as long as we're breathing we may as well keep after it!
I'll be listening in, but silent for a while.
Also your added comment will be accomplished by me

Thanks J ,

Clarence
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Last edited by clarence; 08-12-2017 at 10:04 PM. Reason: sound advice
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  #1665  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:14 PM
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clarence clarence is offline
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Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
You see folks Clarence was absolutely correct on his connection
diagram. Let me paraphrase what he wrote:

He was up at 2oc in the AM, unhooked his device CAPTOR system
from the AC MAINS from the UTILITY GRID LINE coming from the
transformer on the POLE.

Is that clear enough for everybody?

Next Clarence substituted his boxes, being a alternating current inverter
that uses a battery to run power thru it. Clarence made the changes
by supplying his own personal home built mini grid to feed his carefully
engineered ground collection captor that harvests electrons from the
earth as specified by the patent.

Of course people/genius type folks could do things incorrectly by bypassing
the pole meter like our buddy here does and get themselves jailed or
wind up in court.

Things must be done properly by the patent.

To answer why the B&L company has evolved into a hydrogen production
facility is the same as Stehan Meyers after his brother Stan died, he was
given an offer he could not refuse.

Hydrogen is a controllable tech on the way and the captor is too
complicated for the average Joe blow. So produce the extra energy
then convert it to HYDROGEN and everyone is on the same page.

Otherwise the B&L boys would be tied up with more lawyer paper work
for decades while they grow old and give up. This is the way the
alphabetized agencies work. THEY target whomever THEY choose
such as we saw the IRS targeting patriotic American Militia who THEY
hate with a passion.

Making guys like Level look like tiny Tim wearing a pink tutu at a sit
down picnic lunch. As long as we do not get funding of 50 million to go
all out to remove the oil markets, we will be allowed to breath.

Like it or not, I have watched THEM murder many times in the
"INTERESTS OF NATIONAL SECURITY"

These people are heartless, brainwashed nerds, who have what they got by extortion.

As long as we do not try to save the world thru any multi million dollar
heroic plot to over throw the present system over night, we will be
safe.

One of Stan Meyers last boasts was that he had funding of over 50 mil
and that JESUS? told him that we now have the world powers by the
chandlers. Yes that is right Stan said JESUS TOLD HIM that it was now
time to take away the oil robbers power from them.


Don't be a stupid fool. This system is not going to end like that.

I Love you all, be safe and live life to the full in peace, arming yourselves
with the knowledge of clear thinking.

Michael Rowland
Central Kansas
USA
BroMikey,

Thanks BRO for your support.
Your good intentions are always open and evident.
I also plan on following Wantomake's advice about not answering those posts that are not for the betterment of all.

Thanks again BRO,

Clarence
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  #1666  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:48 AM
level level is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post
Turned the inverter on and it started same as it did on AC. It keeps the battery level constant and runs light loads. It's been running for nine hours now so I'll just let it continue.

The limiting factor for loads is the Factory Built Amperage internal capability of of the inverter itself. AN inverter with internal design capability of 10 amps max won't handle but slightly less than that. Even tho its possible to pull large amp loads through the ground the inverter limit stops that from happening.
Hello Clarence. Believe it or not, I do hope for your sake that you have found something that is really working differently this time around.

There is something that appears to not make sense with what you are saying here however, unless I am misunderstanding what you were trying to say.

Previously when you were connected with your current setup to the mains you said it was only drawing 0.07 Amps from the mains. So, if everything is working pretty much the same now when using a battery and inverter instead now, and your inverter is OK up to 10 Amps max, there should be no problem at all with powering all the same kinds of loads connected at the output which you said were pulling around 25 Amps from the ground wire previously. The current draw from your inverter should still only be 0.07 Amps if it is working the same as it was when connected to the mains. Therefore the 10 Amp current limit of your inverter should not be any issue at all. You should be able to use even a small 20 Watt inverter and it should still be able to work fine powering all those same amount of loads as you had connected previously. I would guess I am not the only one who is wondering about this. Why would your inverter need to be rated at higher than 10 Amps if it is working the same as when you were powering from the mains? The current draw from the inverter should only be 0.07 Amps if it is working the same, whether you have light loads or heavy loads connected, as I believe that is how you said it was performing when powered from the mains.

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  #1667  
Old 08-13-2017, 01:44 AM
digits10 digits10 is offline
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Progress

In between rain & humid sunshine, I've now got 28 8' copper clad ground rods down to ground level. A hammer drill is the only way to go! I still have to drive them down below the surface & connect the ground wire to them. I've still got a way to go, but I'm making some progress

Wanttomake - congrats on your 40th! We just celebrated our 13th. Guess I'm on the younger end of this spectrum, ha ha.

Clarence, I hope your 60 ground rods are copper clad & not pure copper, otherwise I might be in for a disappointment.

More later & thanks for all your work, dedication, advice, info
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Old 08-13-2017, 02:36 AM
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BroMikey BroMikey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post
BroMikey,

Thanks BRO for your support.
Your good intentions are always open and evident.
I also plan on following Wantomake's advice about not answering
those posts that are not for the betterment of all.

Thanks again BRO,

Clarence
I agree, it is a waste of time to engage people who side track from
the main attraction. You guys are so much better to listen to. Keep
at it.

Maybe someday we will all have the right schematic and the rest
of us can then be sure what the parts list is and start ordering.
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  #1669  
Old 08-13-2017, 02:44 AM
level level is offline
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Hello Clarence. I took a close look at your latest setup, and when connected to the mains it will still just be a ground loop from the mains hot phase wire through your ground rods and through the ground back to the grounded neutral wire on the utility box. Nothing has changed in that regard with this latest setup of yours. That would seem to explain why your setup can only power light loads when powered from your battery and inverter, as you described in your comment above. In other words, it is still the same old mains ground loop situation fooling your power meters.

You can easily confirm if this is the case or not by doing two very simple tests:

When powering from the mains:
When powering some large loads, set your clamp-on meter to measure AC current and measure the current on the 'hot' phase wire (should be the black wire) on your extension cord which is powering the whole setup. If this input hot phase current is way higher than 0.07A, such as in a high Amps range in proportion to the loads you have connected, then you know for certain that it is a mains ground loop fooling your power meter, since the ground loop return current bypasses the power meter.

When powering from the battery and inverter:
Simply measure the DC battery current in one of the battery wires going to the input of the inverter, and if this current is quite high in proportion to the loads you are powering, then you know all or much of the power is coming from the battery.


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  #1670  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:58 PM
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You are way ahead of me

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Originally Posted by digits10 View Post
In between rain & humid sunshine, I've now got 28 8' copper clad ground rods down to ground level. A hammer drill is the only way to go! I still have to drive them down below the surface & connect the ground wire to them. I've still got a way to go, but I'm making some progress

Wanttomake - congrats on your 40th! We just celebrated our 13th. Guess I'm on the younger end of this spectrum, ha ha.

Clarence, I hope your 60 ground rods are copper clad & not pure copper, otherwise I might be in for a disappointment.

More later & thanks for all your work, dedication, advice, info
digits10,
Thanks and right back at you there.

Yes the rods are just copper coated. At Lowes here in US, the cost is $11.95+- each. But they only stock 2-3 at a time. Make sure you use good screw clamps(the ones sold here are 5/8") to secure the #6 wire.
I tried different methods to connect wire to rod. Weather, rust and poor maintenance lead to bad connections for mine. I plan to purchase the hammer drill you mentioned to drive the rods. Then post hole dig about 4-6 inches down around each rod to make easy access for connecting ground wire. Lastly I'll cap each hole with 4" pvc pipe and end cap to keep grass,fire ants and weather from each rod. Will cut slots on both sides of non capped end of 4" pipe for ground (#6) wire. But will try to camouflage each one somehow because of nosy neighbors . There's a large area beside my shop that will mark with spray paint as I'm placing rods 3 feet apart and bury ground wire just below grass level.

Sorry the wifey and I are just sitting with tablets in hotel after good free breakfast good coffee and too much typing. It's what old couples do in the mornings. Haha....coffee?

Hope your answer didn't get lost in my musings,
wantomake
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  #1671  
Old 08-13-2017, 02:48 PM
Cadman Cadman is offline
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Clarence,

So glad you have switched to the inverter setup. When you get time would you mind reposting the battery / inverter / charger connections for everyone?

@Level
Clarence said earlier that he was just using the mains for convenience. So who cares if the mains setup is a ground loop? He reported the facts about the amp draw of the fused setup.

Personally, I don't care one bit if OU can be measured. The proof is in the pudding. If Clarence's setup can run the load longer than the battery with inverter alone, then that is all the proof needed. If you can't see the good of that then I don't know what to tell you. I see similarities with Turion's device here; recycling charges. Plus there is the possibility that additional charge may be extracted from the ground. This an open system.

You've made your point. So give it a rest, OK?

Respectfully
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  #1672  
Old 08-13-2017, 03:21 PM
level level is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadman View Post
Clarence,

So glad you have switched to the inverter setup. When you get time would you mind reposting the battery / inverter / charger connections for everyone?

@Level
Clarence said earlier that he was just using the mains for convenience. So who cares if the mains setup is a ground loop? He reported the facts about the amp draw of the fused setup.

Personally, I don't care one bit if OU can be measured. The proof is in the pudding. If Clarence's setup can run the load longer than the battery with inverter alone, then that is all the proof needed. If you can't see the good of that then I don't know what to tell you. I see similarities with Turion's device here; recycling charges. Plus there is the possibility that additional charge may be extracted from the ground. This an open system.

You've made your point. So give it a rest, OK?

Respectfully
Hello Cadman. This is not about 'whether OU can be measured', and never has been, as of course over unity is capable of being measured. If you are getting more power out than the total input power to a system, then that would be over unity. There is nothing complicated or mysterious about that at all.

What is of interest here is what is really going on in a B&L setup of this type. If you had bothered to actually read what I wrote above and considered what is being said, you would realize there is a very apparent problem with Clarence's latest setup. It performs great when connected to the mains, but Clarence stated that it causes the current limiting on his inverter to kick in when trying to power larger loads. That is a big warning sign. Let's not mislead people here. Clarence was suggesting that the high current on his ground wire (18A to 25A) when connected to the mains was not coming from the mains, and that is why he felt he had something special this time. If you have any doubts about this, go back and read Clarence's previous comments on this.

Anyone who cares to look will see that Clarence's latest setup has the hot phase wire going to one side of his load, and this phase current then returns through his ground rod array through the ground back to the grounded neutral on the utility box. In other words it is just another mains ground loop setup. That would appear to be why it performs great when connected to the mains, but apparently can only power light loads when connected to a battery and inverter.

I have suggested some very simple tests that Clarence can do to easily confirm where the power is really coming from in Clarence's setup, whether he is connected to the mains or to a battery and inverter. A person who is genuinely interested in trying to understand what is really going on would of course not hesitate to do these kind of basic tests because their goal is to get a better understanding.
The problem here Cadman is this latest setup by Clarence appears to be no different than any of Clarence's earlier setups other than this setup not having the high current 'captor loop', so chances are it is going to perform about the same as his earlier setups. I encourage Clarence to do some proper testing and confirm this for himself and report his results back here, as I would hate to see a bunch of people shelling out large sums of money on batteries and inverters and toroids and a whole pile of ground rods if this latest setup is really no different than Clarence's previous setups.


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  #1673  
Old 08-14-2017, 03:08 AM
Cadman Cadman is offline
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Level,

If I had bothered to read and consider what you wrote? How condescending. What you wrote about measuring between the battery and inverter is both pointless and short sighted.
What would be measured in that instance would be the current between the battery positive and the inverter and nothing else. That current should be many times the current drawn by the load for a 12V battery supplying a 120V inverter. Also current limiting kicking in is by design in the inverter indicating an excessive load on the inverter and nothing else.
To use your own words, let's not mislead people here.

Clarence is being straightforward. He was pulling a 25A load on a 20A fuse, though he didn't say for how long. If it was a sustained load for a lengthy period then where was the extra amperage coming from?

An extra 20% is nothing to scoff at . So how about we wait and see how the battery / inverter / charger performs?

.
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Old 08-14-2017, 03:37 AM
level level is offline
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Hello Cadman. I am sorry but you don't know what you are talking about. The tests I suggested are perfectly valid and were suggested for a very good reason. For a person who understands what is going on, the tests can quickly and simply determine where the actual power is coming from. The measured battery current times the measured battery voltage gives the total input power when using a battery. When powering from the mains, if all the current is coming from the hot phase, then it will be very close to the ground wire current. Please stop confusing matters. Thank you.
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  #1675  
Old 08-14-2017, 03:49 AM
FRANKLIN FRANKLIN is offline
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Somebody could tell me this please

Hello
I understood the circuit of the device that is on the picture that clarence posted before
What it is not clear for me, why on the picture of the final setup (attached the picture) the toroids look differenf in comparison with the picture of the toroids from birdgeport magnetics

Just tell me if you did a modification to the original toroids (I kow you added the blue wire, I saw in the picture very clear, but I do not know if there is another modification to the toroids).

thanks
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC00530 (1).JPG (388.4 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg IMG00158_zpsmovjeioe.jpg (37.6 KB, 18 views)
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  #1676  
Old 08-14-2017, 04:15 AM
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BroMikey BroMikey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadman View Post
Level,

If I had bothered to read and consider what you wrote? How condescending.

To use your own words, let's not mislead people here.

Clarence is being straightforward.
.
I have watched Level for 2 years post daily when his side is losing the
battle of confidence. His job is to thwart any good feelings of higher
level aspiration. You can't reason with that.

However your questions that should be asked are never addressed.

Good to have someone around who can point out this side winding
strategy so a newcomer does not get sucked in. We may not post
much for days and what is posted is all based on real hands on, totally
foreign to the non researcher.

Where is that extra 20% coming from? Good question Cadman

It is a process of deduction that gives us the answer. People who
consider themselves adept should at least answer those few basics.


Just like when Clarence showed the inverter results to be conclusive,
these same skeptics never want to go over the material or know how.

For weeks and months and years the inverter test was to be the final
test of surety and now that the results are in we do not hear anything
good. All we hear round about is that Clarence must be mistaken.

Or better yet Clarence is in effect a liar. Now that is what we are hearing
from the other side, in so many words. Of course these folks would never
come right out and say such a thing.

Many ground rods are a bunch of work all by themselves, then there
is all of the technical end probably far beyond the average cynic.

Yeah ole Clarence is just trying to make a name for himself, he thinks
he is really smart now doesn't he?Cynical, eccentric and skeptical
as the status quo.

Zero's without any ones.-------
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Last edited by BroMikey; 08-14-2017 at 07:48 AM.
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  #1677  
Old 08-14-2017, 05:09 AM
level level is offline
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:54 AM
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clarence clarence is offline
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They are the same ones

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRANKLIN View Post
Hello
I understood the circuit of the device that is on the picture that clarence posted before
What it is not clear for me, why on the picture of the final setup (attached the picture) the toroids look differenf in comparison with the picture of the toroids from birdgeport magnetics

Just tell me if you did a modification to the original toroids (I kow you added the blue wire, I saw in the picture very clear, but I do not know if there is another modification to the toroids).

thanks
FRANKLIN,

I don't know why you think you see any difference?
They are the very same ones in the image photo!
Years back I bought a total of five of them.
Two of them I sent to another member several years back so he could
do some building.
As you said yourself, the Blue wire is just clearly an overlay.

I don't mind the question, now you have the answer.

Respectfully,

Clarence
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Old 08-14-2017, 12:32 PM
Cadman Cadman is offline
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BroMikey,

I see. I guess, even if it was spelled out for some, they would remain closed minded and obstinate. Level refuses to see that the charger is on the high side of the inverter and it's output is fed back to the battery where it re-enters the cycle. Being on the high side it is a load and may possibly take in extra charge from outside the system. Measuring the amperage at the battery connection to the inverter includes the output from the charger and that point in the circuit is the entry point for the majority of the charge supplied to the load. Measuring at that location is not what is being drawn from the battery, it is what is drawn from the battery + charger.

But, I am told that I don't know what I'm talking about and only confusing matters so I'll shut up and wait for reality to assert itself.

Regards
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Old 08-14-2017, 04:25 PM
digits10 digits10 is offline
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Yeah

Cadman,
Can't wait to get off work today, so that I can work on wiring up my ground rods. Hopefully, I can help reality exert itself
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