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  #1591  
Old 08-09-2017, 08:09 PM
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clarence clarence is offline
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Wrong amount

Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
Clarence,
Thanks for the information. That makes good sense.
26 grounding rods
26 connectors for wire to rod
26 rods at three feet apart in circle = 78 feet +-
78 feet #6 awg (green) wire (welding cable)on eBay 40' ($27) x 2
10 - 15 feet(?) From shop to circle #6 awg wire

Are my calculations right? Maybe. But it will take me a while to finish this. But will see what I can do.

Please everyone keep building. If this(?) can work from an inverter/battery setup, then if power outage of any nature happens you'll still have power.

If I remember correctly B&L started with this idea. There's more after this.
wantomake
Edit: I guess my coffee budget will get cut......well that's not going to happen !!!!
Wantomake,

26 feet X 3.14 = 81,64 feet plus your 15 foot lead in=96.64 feet you will need.
EDIT: DAMN were on page 54 - OMG. that was fast!


Later

Clarence
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  #1592  
Old 08-09-2017, 09:36 PM
digits10 digits10 is offline
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Two sets of gound rods?

Clarence,
Hope you don't mind the continued questions. I've got 25 more ground rods ordered. That will put me at 28 total. If I put them in similar to yours, but only do one side of my yard, do you think I'll have problems if I end up needing to add more later? If I put these in & connect with a single wire, and end up adding 32 more later, do you think I can just connect them together at the joint (two connections in order to keep the loop configuration)? Or, does it really need to be a single uncut piece of wire through the whole loop?
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  #1593  
Old 08-09-2017, 09:40 PM
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Quick update

Quote:
Originally Posted by digits10 View Post
Clarence,
With your success, it gave me the inspiration I needed to put in 3 8' ground rods tonight. I'm waiting for the 150v GDT's to come in. Can't wait to try this thing! I've got a pure sine wave inverter, so I'm very interested in trying it with that also.
To All,
I did try my inverter/battery setup to satisfy curiosity. It powered everything but it seemed to pull a few tenths more amperage from the inverter.

No smoke and nothing fried,
wantomake
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  #1594  
Old 08-09-2017, 09:42 PM
digits10 digits10 is offline
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Waiting

Well, it looks like it will take me a week to get everything and then some time to drive in those ground rods!

Clarence, have you tried this using your inverter & not being connected to the grid at all? Just curious if it works the same way.
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  #1595  
Old 08-09-2017, 09:51 PM
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You can add as you wish

Quote:
Originally Posted by digits10 View Post
Clarence,
Hope you don't mind the continued questions. I've got 25 more ground rods ordered. That will put me at 28 total. If I put them in similar to yours, but only do one side of my yard, do you think I'll have problems if I end up needing to add more later? If I put these in & connect with a single wire, and end up adding 32 more later, do you think I can just connect them together at the joint (two connections in order to keep the loop configuration)? Or, does it really need to be a single uncut piece of wire through the whole loop?
digits10

You can always add on as you like - as long as you keep the WHOLE THING IN ONE CIRCLE type configuration with only one feed line connected to it.
The wire should always be the same size. the number of connections you have to make get the circle built is not important.

Clarence
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  #1596  
Old 08-09-2017, 09:58 PM
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Marvelous simply marvelous

Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
To All,
I did try my inverter/battery setup to satisfy curiosity. It powered everything but it seemed to pull a few tenths more amperage from the inverter.

No smoke and nothing fried,
wantomake
Wantomake ,

Marvelous Ole Friend- just marvelous. when you get the chance you might give the directions on how you did it to the others.
I know they will be on pins and needles.

EDIT : IMHOP the extra amperage on the inverter was because the battery/inverter was acting as its own power company.

Bless You J

Clarence
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Last edited by clarence; 08-09-2017 at 10:06 PM. Reason: just saying
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  #1597  
Old 08-09-2017, 10:46 PM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
To All,
I did try my inverter/battery setup to satisfy curiosity. It powered everything but it seemed to pull a few tenths more amperage from the inverter.

No smoke and nothing fried,
wantomake
Wantomake,

What size inverter and does it have a GFCI plug in or no?

Clarence
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  #1598  
Old 08-10-2017, 01:50 AM
FRANKLIN FRANKLIN is offline
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I agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post
Wantomake ,

Marvelous Ole Friend- just marvelous. when you get the chance you might give the directions on how you did it to the others.
I know they will be on pins and needles.

EDIT : IMHOP the extra amperage on the inverter was because the battery/inverter was acting as its own power company.

Bless You J

Clarence
Yes I agree.
maybe somebody could write a list of the materials and the summary of the steps to build this one?

I see the two torids are connected to the positive wire from the energy from the house?
and the blue wire is the closed buckle?
also I see the blue wire has 15 windings around the toroid but are in opposite direction?
what I dId not understand is the withe pipe, it is being used just to keep in place the two toroids?

hope you can answer me
it is a success
FRANKLIN
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  #1599  
Old 08-10-2017, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post
Wantomake ,

Marvelous Ole Friend- just marvelous. when you get the chance you might give the directions on how you did it to the others.
I know they will be on pins and needles.

EDIT : IMHOP the extra amperage on the inverter was because the battery/inverter was acting as its own power company.

Bless You J

Clarence
Clarence and All,
My inverter is 2k watt with marine battery bank.

The directions is: I unplugged from mains power then turned and plugged into inverter. This inverter does shut off if a short or overload is present.
But like I posted- no improvement. I've got to put a descent ground grid in the correct configuration.

wantomake
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  #1600  
Old 08-10-2017, 02:44 AM
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????

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post
Wantomake,

26 feet X 3.14 = 81,64 feet plus your 15 foot lead in=96.64 feet you will need.
EDIT: DAMN were on page 54 - OMG. that was fast!


Later

Clarence
Clarence,
You posted the rods are 3 feet apart and minimum of 26 rods.
So 26 rods @ 3 ft is 78 feet right. I don't understand your math. But I'm enjoying football game and some brewskys. Will look at it tomorrow.

wantomake
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  #1601  
Old 08-10-2017, 04:46 AM
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I USED THE CIRCUMFERENCE FORMULA - 3.14 x 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
Clarence,
You posted the rods are 3 feet apart and minimum of 26 rods.
So 26 rods @ 3 ft is 78 feet right. I don't understand your math. But I'm enjoying football game and some brewskys. Will look at it tomorrow.

wantomake

Wantomake ,

Its best to use the formula for the circumference of a circle which is 3.14 times 26 (diameter) .
Instead of cutting the # 6 AWG wire or trying to thread all the ground rod clamps onto the wire and chasing them along as you go - put all the rods in the ground first. Start with the one that is going to have the feed line into shop or house and strip a 2 inch space on the end - clamp it tight and go to the next rod mark where the wire meets that rod and remove another 2 inch space of insulation the make the space of wire into a U bend and poke it into the clamp on the rod and tighten the bolt on the clamp and move on -
doing them all in the same manner!

Believe me you will need all of the 81 to 82 feet PLUS the 15 feet for the lead in connection.
BEEN THERE DONE THAt!

I like the brewskys but my only game is life.

Later,

Clarence
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  #1602  
Old 08-10-2017, 05:17 AM
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Just look closer

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRANKLIN View Post
Yes I agree.
maybe somebody could write a list of the materials and the summary of the steps to build this one?

I see the two torids are connected to the positive wire from the energy from the house?
and the blue wire is the closed buckle?
also I see the blue wire has 15 windings around the toroid but are in opposite direction?
what I dId not understand is the withe pipe, it is being used just to keep in place the two toroids?

hope you can answer me
it is a success
FRANKLIN
FRANKLIN,

First off All toroid transformers have TWO LEADS . Each one of them has a BLACK and a WHITE lead.
The BLACK Leads go to the HOT WIRE input.
The WHITE LEADS go to the NEUTRAL WIRE input.

Second - I have no idea of what you mean by a BUCKLE.
The CORRECT word for this devise is CLOSED LOOP.

Third - The blue wire has ONLY 14 wraps (turns).
The wraps ARE OPPOSITE each other with respect to each toroid transformer.

Fourth - The PVC pipe is a CRADLE from other years of build and I just used it to keep the two toroids JAMMED TOGETHER and not roll around or fall all over the place. The two toroids have to be opposed to each other AND TIGHT AGAINST EACH OTHER.

Fifth - I used 25 feet of the BLUE wire # 12 AWG tinned multi stranded wire.


Best, Clarence
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  #1603  
Old 08-10-2017, 02:08 PM
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Fuse results

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadman View Post
Put a couple of 1A fuses in the wires of the cord from the KAW meter. Then pull 27A current out to run your appliances.

If the fuses don't blow, that should put that argument to rest.

Cadman,

A 1 amp fuse on the neutral supply to the Toroids works without Blowing.
The fuse for the Line (HOT) leg that feeds the Toroids AND THEN CONTINUES ON as a LINE supply for loads is a MIXED ball game.
For a 25 amp TOTAL load it requires a 20 amp fuse and it will heat a little but NOT blow.

I spent time doing the math and it seems that for the said 25 amp load total
75% comes through the mains Line supply - the OTHER 25% comes THROUGH THE GROUND RETURN.
That's why a clamp meter would show the total 25 amps for the load.
It does NOT differentiate between the two sources but only shows the sum total for the load it is measuring.
Whether or not it makes sense - that is what is happening.

Best of the day to you sir!

Clarence
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  #1604  
Old 08-10-2017, 03:15 PM
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Voltage drop

Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
Clarence,
You posted the rods are 3 feet apart and minimum of 26 rods.
So 26 rods @ 3 ft is 78 feet right. I don't understand your math. But I'm enjoying football game and some brewskys. Will look at it tomorrow.

wantomake
Wantomake ,

I did some research on voltage drop.
The thumbnail shows their main comment from the NEC - National Electric Company .

Seems like for the series parallel LOADS like I am doing (and yourself)
that the EXPECTED voltage drop should be about 3% and up to 8% in some cases.

They also stated that for the couple of front loads VS the rest of the loads that using a larger circuit WIRE SIZE for these up front loads HELPS to MINIMIZE the expected voltage drop to the around 3% range, the wire size to the follow on loads ca be at the smaller normal wire size and still keep within the 3%.

In a nut shell- when a person would use two 100 foot lite weight extension cords to an outbuilding light and then switch on the light it would barely glow.
Then when they bought a heavy duty extension cord and used it as the FIRST extension cord to power the light and switched on the light it was as bright as expected. The ohm resistance in the first configuration created
the voltage drop and excessive current draw.


In my case I need to upgrade the wire size of the red wire from the toroid connection to the output terminal from # 10 AWG to #6 AWG and make it MATCH the Ground return wire size all the way to the load terminal.

This should help me to have less current draw and power MORE loads at the same time.

Will see!

Clarence
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  #1605  
Old 08-10-2017, 03:32 PM
digits10 digits10 is offline
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On power inverter

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post
Cadman,

A 1 amp fuse on the neutral supply to the Toroids works without Blowing.
The fuse for the Line (HOT) leg that feeds the Toroids AND THEN CONTINUES ON as a LINE supply for loads is a MIXED ball game.
For a 25 amp TOTAL load it requires a 20 amp fuse and it will heat a little but NOT blow.

I spent time doing the math and it seems that for the said 25 amp load total
75% comes through the mains Line supply - the OTHER 25% comes THROUGH THE GROUND RETURN.
That's why a clamp meter would show the total 25 amps for the load.
It does NOT differentiate between the two sources but only shows the sum total for the load it is measuring.
Whether or not it makes sense - that is what is happening.

Best of the day to you sir!

Clarence

From this, it sounds like much less net power would be available when using a battery/inverter setup not connected to the grid?
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  #1606  
Old 08-10-2017, 04:08 PM
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Size of inverter counts

Quote:
Originally Posted by digits10 View Post
From this, it sounds like much less net power would be available when using a battery/inverter setup not connected to the grid?
digits10

Its the size of the inverter that counts,
AND you have to bear in mind that the current/amperage being consumed is not really sensed by the inverter just like the same thing that happens with a mains system.

The MOST important thing for a battery Inverter system would be whether or not it can pull in enough energy to power a smart charger and keep its batteries at peak voltage.

Best to you Sir!

Clarence
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  #1607  
Old 08-10-2017, 04:15 PM
digits10 digits10 is offline
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Next

Clarence,
Thanks for the reply. I decided to pick up a hammer drill attachment - hopefully that will make the ground rod project easier!

You gonna fire up your inverter & battery bank to see what happens? I'm still probably 2 weeks out to get to that point.
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  #1608  
Old 08-10-2017, 06:23 PM
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Goal

Quote:
Originally Posted by digits10 View Post
Clarence,
Thanks for the reply. I decided to pick up a hammer drill attachment - hopefully that will make the ground rod project easier!

You gonna fire up your inverter & battery bank to see what happens? I'm still probably 2 weeks out to get to that point.
My main goal has been to power this setup with an inverter/battery with charger that would be totally self powered. But that's after my ground grid is in place. So I'm on snails pace now and hate it. The patent said B&L jumped their system off with mains then switch over to system powering itself. I think maybe with inverter/battery.
wantomake
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  #1609  
Old 08-10-2017, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post

I spent time doing the math and it seems that for the said 25 amp load
total 75% comes through the mains Line supply - the OTHER 25% comes THROUGH THE GROUND RETURN.
Hey Clarence

This statement will be attacked by critics thinking you mean 75%
of your power was coming from the mains off the grid. So please
let us all know what MAINS that 75% of the power is coming
from. Plz clarify that the mains you referred to have nothing to
do with the power company mains.

Possible change your wording to say "Power Bus" a separate designation
other than "Supply Line Mains", terms power companies use to talk
about THEIR grid.

Your mains and THEIR mains are not the same thing to you but others
may become confused.

Just watching your back.


PS The above statement could be easily misinterpreted and get
people thinking that your calculations show that you made a mistake
about getting the energy from the environment. Something that has
already happened once before.

Everyone knows that your experiment derives energy from the ground
rods so it looks like you might be saying that only 25%..................?



Thank you for your hard work of love and support to the sheepeople.
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  #1610  
Old 08-10-2017, 08:07 PM
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Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
Hey Clarence

This statement will be attacked by critics thinking you mean 75%
of your power was coming from the mains off the grid. So please
let us all know what MAINS that 75% of the power is coming
from. Plz clarify that the mains you referred to have nothing to
do with the power company mains.

Possible change your wording to say "Power Bus" a separate designation
other than "Supply Line Mains", terms power companies use to talk
about THEIR grid.

Your mains and THEIR mains are not the same thing to you but others
may become confused.

Just watching your back.


PS The above statement could be easily misinterpreted and get
people thinking that your calculations show that you made a mistake
about getting the energy from the environment. Something that has
already happened once before.

Everyone knows that your experiment derives energy from the ground
rods so it looks like you might be saying that only 25%..................?



Thank you for your hard work of love and support to the sheepeople.
BroMikey,

Thanks for the heads up!
Yeah, the only thing the Utility grid powers is the Two toroids, and that only amounts to .07 Amps. Every thing else does come from the ground.
After all , that's what their whole devise is all about and how they managed to get it done.

Hows's things going on your end? I have looked in at times on you work and photos . All of that seems Busy Busy Busy!

There has been a lot of posts and look ins from many members this last week ,That's for sure.

Thanks again for the advice BRO!
That I will keep in front of my noodle for certain!

Best wishes on your end BRO!

Clarence
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:09 PM
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Schematic

For those of us who have spent a career thinking graphically, here is a simple diagram of what I think Clarence's pictures show. Please advise if there is an error and I will redo it.
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File Type: jpg barbosa-leal.jpg (192.8 KB, 91 views)
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  #1612  
Old 08-10-2017, 08:43 PM
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Toroid part number and ordering information

Hello GoToLuc,

You had asked for the Toroid Part number and ordering information.

In the thumbnail attachment youwill see the old invoice fro Bridgeport Magnetics Company. Also you will see an image of what they look like.

You should be able to get a hold of them and order what you need from this information.

Hopes this helps Sir!

Clarence
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File Type: jpg Toroid Part number and oreding info.JPG (57.8 KB, 74 views)
File Type: jpg IMG00158_zpsmovjeioe.jpg (37.6 KB, 54 views)
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:16 PM
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Thanks Clarence for taking the time to post your Toroid details

Kind regards and thanks for sharing

Luc
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:35 PM
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Ordering

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotoluc View Post
Thanks Clarence for taking the time to post your Toroid details

Kind regards and thanks for sharing

Luc
Luc,

When ordering be sure to tell them that it will be for 220volt 50 Hz.
I believe that is right for your area if I remember right (hopefully).

Clarence
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:03 PM
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Gas discharge tube

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotdog View Post
For those of us who have spent a career thing graphically, here is a simple diagram of what I think Clarence's pictures show. Please advise if there is an error and I will redo it.
Hello
I saw your schematic.
Could you tell me more details about the gas discharge tube.
it looks like it is a SPRAK-GAP?
If I compare this schematic with the picture from clarence, it is the very small piece that is between the negative and the positive?

thanks

franklin
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:15 PM
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Gas Discharge Tube

Franklin,

That is the symbol for a spark gap. My component library did not have a real gas discharge tube. They are essentially the same by providing an arc-over when a certain voltage level is reached. If I remember correctly, Clarence said his is 150 volts, Mouser part number B88069X2840S102. In his picture it is in the upper left corner on a two-terminal block.
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:20 AM
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Good Deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post
BroMikey,

Thanks for the heads up!
Yeah, the only thing the Utility grid powers is the Two toroids...........

Hows's things going on your end?

I see everyone is getting excited and chiming in. It has been a long
wait but worth it after all. Yes my work is coming along slow because
I do not have much time each day to work on it. However the winding
table is finished.

Now back to your sweet setup. I see one schematic recently posted
and wondered if that is the entire circuit. Since I have already posted
earlier drawing that were inaccurate, perhaps I should update the
drawing.


It is no hurry, just whatever you want is fine. I see your wrap numbers
have changed slightly on the heavy electron captor amp section.

I am thrilled to see your victory, just get in there and do. That is your
motto. You are going to have folks clamoring from here to
christmas to test the waters now.

Be ready for anything
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:42 AM
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Hello Clarence. How are things? Haven't been following very closely for quite some time, but as I have mentioned in the past, do you get the same results when you are not connected to the mains, but power it from batteries and an inverter instead? I think this is an important point that should be made clear before other people go spending a bunch of money trying to build it.

From what I understood, you say the power meter shows it is only using about 8 Watts from the mains (0.07A current draw), so if your setup really is over unity it should be able to power microwaves etc. using just a battery and low power inverter to power it. If powering from the inverter doesn't work the same at all as when you are powering from the mains, then for certain your extra power is coming from the mains, and is not real free energy. So, to make it clear for everyone else here, when you use only a battery and inverter to power it (no mains connection at all, anywhere), does your power meter still show just 0.07A draw from the inverter output while powering your microwave, or is the current draw from the inverter much higher when using the inverter? Your best bet to really be sure what is going on would be to measure the current draw from the 12V battery using a clamp on current meter over a battery wire (set to measure DC current), as those portable power meters can sometimes be fooled depending how you hook things up.

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  #1619  
Old 08-11-2017, 02:23 AM
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ups for power unit

Hello Clarence, Congratulations on your work. I would like to know about what you think of using an online double conversion ups to power the system?
thanks.
flavio pereira
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by level View Post
Hello Clarence. How are things? Haven't been following very closely for quite some time, but as I have mentioned in the past, do you get the same results when you are not connected to the mains, but power it from batteries and an inverter instead? I think this is an important point that should be made clear before other people go spending a bunch of money trying to build it.

From what I understood, you say the power meter shows it is only using about 8 Watts from the mains (0.07A current draw), so if your setup really is over unity it should be able to power microwaves etc. using just a battery and low power inverter to power it. If powering from the inverter doesn't work the same at all as when you are powering from the mains, then for certain your extra power is coming from the mains, and is not real free energy. So, to make it clear for everyone else here, when you use only a battery and inverter to power it (no mains connection at all, anywhere), does your power meter still show just 0.07A draw from the inverter output while powering your microwave, or is the current draw from the inverter much higher when using the inverter? Your best bet to really be sure what is going on would be to measure the current draw from the 12V battery using a clamp on current meter over a battery wire (set to measure DC current), as those portable power meters can sometimes be fooled depending how you hook things up.

Hello Level

I think everyone has the same questions, all over again and from previous
posting it looks like wantomake is eventually going to do that test but
right now Clarence and a few others are spending time with the newest
alterations. Now everyone wants to know if the energy is coming from the
grid or our grid, from the mains or our mains, very confusing in and of itself
to use the same terms for THEIR grid and our GRID.

But like you say we don't have our grid set up yet.

From what I gather Clarence had thought for about 1 year he was not
getting any power from the utility company pole transformer, then he
measured something and I don't know how he arrived at the deduction
but said he basically had failed.

He did not fail completely, just a temporary set back. Now this new setup
seems to be nearly same as the old setup as far as I can tell so my question
would be, what test was made that change Clarence mind?

What test was it that Clarence made that caused him to think his first
setup was drawing power from the grid and what test was it that Clarence
made that showed him he was no longer getting power from the
utility company.

You see I don't know what test he made, you will have to ask him. It is
a valid question and I hope Clarence is up for it. We better let him do
more verification and I am sure he will clarify his reasoning for now
thinking he has something different than he had last year.

Believe or believe not don't mean zhit, we need more to go on than
what we have before the money is spent on all of these boxes.

Now are you happy with my reasoning LEVEL?

From the patent information the utility grid is required to make the unit
function? I am not sure, but if that is the case what is the reasoning
behind it? Most would say it is because some back flowing current is
being harvested in such a way that no meters can read it.

But Clarence was honest enough to own up to the fact that his first
setup was drawing power from the utility company transformer after he
defended that is was not for a year.

The question should be "what test did Clarence use that changed his
mind" helping him to know one way or another. I have read all of the
posts and I must confess it has been a long slow mess of tiring
changes from one experiment to another.

Clarence is a fighter and that is why he will not fail in the end.

PS I told you to be ready for anything Clarence and Level is back.

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