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  #91  
Old 05-10-2015, 08:05 AM
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Progress Report on Circuits

This is my updated circuit as i build it.

I have tested sections of the entire circuit and now I am
adding them together to form a switchable multi-voltage
control.


THIS CIRCUIT IS INCOMPLETE,
WAIT TILL i REMOVE THE INCOMPLETE SIGN IN A DAY OR
TWO BEFORE PROCEEDING.


You will see that I have added some switches, 3 for different
voltages and 1 to change oscillator tank trigger cap resistances.
Sometimes batteries will make the circuit squeal so switches
help to cover a wide range of ENERGIZER operations.

Also I have added the SURGE LIMITER back into the circuit
to keep a stable reading for the CROWBAR voltage shutdown.

I am also widening the diagram to fit everything as I build.





Also the same picture diagram in BLOCK FORM. This might
help some of you to understand each portion of the entire
circuit and keep it clear in your minds as the circuit grows
in size. Remember I still need to add many things.



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Last edited by BroMikey; 05-10-2015 at 10:10 AM.
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  #92  
Old 05-10-2015, 07:50 PM
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SG oscillator

Hi Mikey, You've got everything under control and well protected, if I may make a suggestion I would use a resistive potential divider network to the gate of the control thyristor offering a more stabilised reference voltage point. The resistor network would need to be reconfigured for the gate trigger parameters of course. Are you're charging different battery bank voltage combinations with this set up? Certainly a versatile system, looking forward to your final design... nice work
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  #93  
Old 05-10-2015, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupe View Post
Hi Mikey, You've got everything under control and well protected, if I may make a suggestion I would use a resistive potential divider network to the gate of the control thyristor offering a more stabilised reference voltage point. The resistor network would need to be reconfigured for the gate trigger parameters of course. Are you're charging different battery bank voltage combinations with this set up? Certainly a versatile system, looking forward to your final design... nice work
Hey Dupe

Yes please I can use all of the help I can get. please show me.
I will redo it if I like it, please post your basic SCR and resistor
divider. I know I am rusty and lacking in many area's even
though I gettem to work.

Here is my update today. The dual switching fires at 73v,31v,15v
at the battery but the relay voltages are 10.5-11.5v with these
resistor switches.

My relays are well protected.

Whenever I put a zener on the gate the crowbar will not work.

Here is mine, please post a small diagram for me so i may try it.

And that goes for anyone else who is able to add to these simple
circuits without trying to make it fully programmable


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  #94  
Old 05-11-2015, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupe View Post
Hi Mikey, You've got everything under control and well protected, if I may make a suggestion I would use a resistive potential divider network to the gate of the control thyristor offering a more stabilised reference voltage point. The resistor network would need to be reconfigured for the gate trigger parameters of course. Are you're charging different battery bank voltage combinations with this set up? Certainly a versatile system, looking forward to your final design... nice work

Here is some of the data on the IGT ,volts

The Gate opens at .6v and 2 ma, this is where the circuit opens up. I
Don't know what happens after it opens.

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  #95  
Old 05-11-2015, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupe View Post
Hi Mikey, You've got everything under control and well protected, if I may make a suggestion I would use a resistive potential divider network to the gate of the control thyristor offering a more stabilised reference voltage point. The resistor network would need to be reconfigured for the gate trigger parameters of course. Are you're charging different battery bank voltage combinations with this set up? Certainly a versatile system, looking forward to your final design... nice work
Hi Dupe

here is the basic Crowbar circuit. Just down load it and alter
it the way you had in mind.

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  #96  
Old 05-11-2015, 08:37 PM
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Basic Crowbar Circuit

@ BroMikey
Hi have put together a circuit you can try out, just need to post the image over... have not got a clue how to send it on this site?

OK have worked out how to send a thumb nail image at least a start.
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  #97  
Old 05-11-2015, 08:56 PM
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@ BroMikey
This is my alternative crowbar circuit, the transistor is BC547 / BC182 and zener is 500mW details are open to experiment and a gate resistor can be included to suit device in use. two switch positioned shown for 15.2v and 12.7v

[IMG]Thyristor trig.gif[/IMG]
Attached Images
File Type: gif Thyristor trig.gif (6.4 KB, 140 views)
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  #98  
Old 05-12-2015, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupe View Post
@ BroMikey
This is my alternative crowbar circuit, the transistor is BC547 / BC182 and zener is 500mW details are open to experiment and a gate resistor can be included to suit device in use. two switch positioned shown for 15.2v and 12.7v

[IMG]Thyristor trig.gif[/IMG]

Thanks Dupe

My crowbar gate is half cracked open sometimes if a small
battery is sulfated and rejecting the charge. The spikes
can be trouble for gates I see.

In other words the LED gives off a pre-glow
very faintly lit. The spikes will eat my gate huh?

This version seems like an improved solution.

I think this is what you meant?

I will build it soon.



Okay I am back Dupe after some tests and it is confirmed
my LED on the relay is faintly glowing and it reads .5v there.
Of course for that LED to glow at only .5v during operation
shows that spikes are getting through.

I am doing your build now and will see the difference.

Thank you
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  #99  
Old 05-12-2015, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
Thanks Dupe

My crowbar gate is half cracked open sometimes if a small
battery is sulfated and rejecting the charge. The spikes
can be trouble for gates I see.

In other words the LED gives off a pre-glow
very faintly lit. The spikes will eat my gate huh?

This version seems like an improved solution.

I think this is what you meant?

I will build it soon.


You can possibly use a clamp suppression diode to add further protection to your circuit choose a voltage in excess of your maximum charging source voltage check their current handling capacity to match in with your designs.
My circuit should work ok for you ... I normally build on bread and use a variable PSU to finally check the trigger points etc.


Okay I am back Dupe after some tests and it is confirmed
my LED on the relay is faintly glowing and it reads .5v there.
Of course for that LED to glow at only .5v during operation
shows that spikes are getting through.

I am doing your build now and will see the difference.

Thank you
OK Mikey... should work fine, I always build my designs on bread board first before knocking up a circuit board this gives me a chance to trim values if necessary. If you have a variable PSU all the better.
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  #100  
Old 05-12-2015, 05:42 PM
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BroMikey's SSG

Just had a thought about your spikes!! you can get transient suppression diodes that will conduct above a given clamp voltage, might be worth looking into to add further protection. Hve a look here:-
http://www.protekdevices.com/Assets/...les/ta1001.pdf
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  #101  
Old 05-12-2015, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupe View Post
OK Mikey... should work fine, I always build my designs on bread board first before knocking up a circuit board this gives me a chance to trim values if necessary. If you have a variable PSU all the better.
Hello DUPE

Yes I have it assembled on a bread board and O use those bread board
jumpers you can buy on ebay. It really makes circuit building fast and
easy.

On the TVS end of things. I have seen these and have some but never
thought much about using them on an SCR gate. Why not. I can always
push one down into place to give it a try.Good thinking.

And on part voltages I agree for a 12v operation the device should
at least be rated for 35v-50v max so as not to damage.


I also have number of precision variable voltage supplies plus the
constant current. Yes I test this way at first you are right.

I am now looking at your circuit design.

Then when I look around at other similar circuits it looks
to me like the small switching transistor is some sort of
regulator?

I am not sure. Or is it that the transistor opens first and then the SCR?

I will finish it tonight.thanks to you.

Mikey
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  #102  
Old 05-17-2015, 01:02 AM
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hot resistors

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
Mike,
Do you have issues with the 47 ohm resistor heating up HOT in your old beast circuit.

I've been playing with the CPD mod and having heat issues with any resistor that I put in series with the cap/pot and the diode before the base of the transistor. Any suggestions? I've tried a 10k pot with a .56 uf cap and a 1.5 uf cap so far.

Al
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  #103  
Old 05-17-2015, 01:25 AM
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Study Guide

Here is my study guide materials for Bedini motors and solid state
oscillators. People want this guy gone. He gives away to many
secrets.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faXEPvdwEXg


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  #104  
Old 05-17-2015, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alman View Post
Mike,
Do you have issues with the 47 ohm resistor heating up HOT in your old beast circuit.

I've been playing with the CPD mod and having heat issues with any resistor that I put in series with the cap/pot and the diode before the base of the transistor. Any suggestions? I've tried a 10k pot with a .56 uf cap and a 1.5 uf cap so far.

Al
Yes I use 15 watt Ohmite stone resistors. If you run 15-16volts on the input
at 1/2 amp to 1 amp a 5 watt resistor is okay but if you turn the power
up to 2-3amps you will need higher wattages.

Now I use 220 ohm 7watt but they warm up at 5 amps so they are out
for my bigger machine coming.

I recently bought a bunch of 15-20 watt 220 ohm OHMITE blocks with the
large straps as legs as well as the 22 gauge wire legs. Also other types
of resistors exist that have axial leads and the compounds VS wire winding
run far cooler, spend the money.

I buy in bulk for the same price as you will buy 2 pieces. Look for the price break.

If they are to hot they will stink.

use these

10pcs 100 Ohm 100RΩJ 10 Watt Axial Ceramic Cement Power Resistor 10W 2823 | eBay


1 IRC 220 Ohm 10 Watt 5 Wirewound Resistor | eBay



These are my favorite ones, I asked this guy to give me a number to get
them for less money per piece and I think he let me have 20 resistors
a $2.50 unit price.

IRC PCL 15 Ceramic Cement Power Wirewound Resistor 15 Watt 220 Ohm 5 8926 NNB | eBay
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  #105  
Old 05-22-2015, 09:02 AM
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4,5,6 builds going on at once Can't see the end yet.

3 crowbar controllers, 2 SSSG oscillators, transformers.

I did some scope shots the other night of the air core oscillator
and forgot to take pictures. Great big spikes.

The other oscillator with the 6 LITZ strands with go to 250volt
in a few seconds.

























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  #106  
Old 05-22-2015, 09:49 AM
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I have changed the circuit again slightly. See if you can
tell where it is changed. The hint is look for the 8 pin
latching relay.

Today I charged a 12v battery hooking it up and leaving
then later when I came back I found that the relay and LED
had also discharged my battery a tiny portion on the
crowbar side.

I have added two pins on my latching relay so i can shut
both sides off, not just one side.

See what I mean?


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  #107  
Old 05-24-2015, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupe View Post
@ BroMikey
This is my alternative crowbar circuit, the transistor is BC547 / BC182 and zener is 500mW details are open to experiment and a gate resistor can be included to suit device in use. two switch positioned shown for 15.2v and 12.7v

[IMG]Thyristor trig.gif[/IMG]



Okay Dupe I reworked it for a 2n2222 and used 75 ohms at the
positive input terminal. Very cool running zener and stable latch.

I like the sound of the relay and I did not use a diode, but will.

thanks for the new circuit. It works very well.
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  #108  
Old 05-24-2015, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post



Okay Dupe I reworked it for a 2n2222 and used 75 ohms at the
positive input terminal. Very cool running zener and stable latch.

I like the sound of the relay and I did not use a diode, but will.

thanks for the new circuit. It works very well.
Your very welcome Mikey, well done. By the way just waiting a delivery of Alum to convert some of my batteries! Cheers Dupe
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  #109  
Old 05-24-2015, 10:30 PM
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Hey Dupe

Alum is the ticket for many batteries above 70 degree temperatures.

I have freshen up your circuit diagram with MY 2N2222 addition

If you have any other alternative circuits, please let me know.

Alternative circuits may turn out to be the main circuit.

I have not decided what the difference is yet other than the cap

increases holding time as well as stabilizing incoming energy so

the SCR does not trigger from minor fluctuation.



I have learned that the Bedini oscillator gives a surge of power

when starting the circuit and is enough to set off the

circuit over-voltage showdown.


Also when use with high energy capacitive discharging devices.

Use the surge limiter found in the diagram's.


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  #110  
Old 05-25-2015, 03:50 AM
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Just had a thought about your spikes!! you can get transient suppression diodes ................................[/url]
Oh yeah almost forgot to tell you something DUPE.

I was beating up this one set of oscillator components and didn't
realize I had some kind of leakage problems that was causing
strange things. As soon as I dumped the old parts and put a new
set on a broad everything went normal.

So my Led is not cracked open on .5v anymore.

These oscillators are strange indeed.
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  #111  
Old 05-25-2015, 07:46 AM
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I've had a few experiments with similar oscillators. One was on the toroidal core, the frequency was 2MHz.
It requires some really fast diodes.

regards
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  #112  
Old 05-25-2015, 05:11 PM
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Yes these oscillator circuits can create some hefty transient switching spikes rich in harmonics. Board layout also effects circuit stability, and a significant influence on other components and adjoining circuitry also. Adequate filtering and decoupling is important, anyway this project of yours is really coming together Mikey.
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  #113  
Old 05-25-2015, 05:27 PM
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Good point... Ultra fast switching diodes should be used for all HF applications with these and similar circuits.
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  #114  
Old 05-25-2015, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupe View Post
Good point... Ultra fast switching diodes should be used for all HF applications with these and similar circuits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by padova View Post
I've had a few experiments with similar oscillators. One was on the toroidal core, the frequency was 2MHz.
It requires some really fast diodes.

regards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupe View Post
Yes these oscillator circuits can create some hefty transient switching spikes rich in harmonics. Board layout also effects circuit stability, and a significant influence on other components and adjoining circuitry also. Adequate filtering and decoupling is important, anyway this project of yours is really coming together Mikey.
Thanks guys

Does anyone have anything to add??.. let me know I like new circuits.

I was really in shock when I dumped those clunky old slow diodes

for some fast diodes. Dem babies can really blow your doors off.

I think it almost doubled on the output.

Mikey
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  #115  
Old 06-01-2015, 03:24 AM
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This is the one I am working on this week. So far as of last night
I successfully switched 2 of the 3 stages as the voltage climbs.
The third stage tonight.

What that means is that as the battery charges up to 26 volts a
relay drops a resistor to lower input power to the OSCILLATOR in
GENMODE. One drops at 28 volts and at 31volts turns off so this
circuit will be updated for 24volt operation to all who use 24v.


It looks like the old air core Bedini Oscillator just aint gonna cut it
so I will change out the wire to get a better power output. The
one I had already uses 4 channels MJL21194 130foot coil of 22awg
chokes at 2 amps.

It was an old experiment that was targeted for under 1 amp. It is
highly efficient for cleaning up tiny batteries but I already have
that in 3 other units so this one will get upgraded to faster
diodes and more powerful transistors. Plus 6 strands of 20awg
wire. I want to try 3 strands per 200watt transistor and fast
diodes in this one.

I am using 75-90 foot Litzed coils that will produce over 300 volts
in seconds unlike the beginners model I built that can't get much
over 100 volts in a while.

A good length can be anywhere from 40 feet up to 300 feet
depending on what you want to do. In my case the energizers
need only high voltage radiant for occasional battery plate
clean up and GENMODE for current pulses.

I have found that the best trade off is to increase wire diameter
of shorten the coil length of 22awh and 20awg to increase
power production without forcing an over heating condition
through so much resistance.

Don't get me wrong, the super long thin wire has it's place say
running at 50ma off a solar panel out back very very efficient.
Scaling up to charge a 1000ah should be done with many many
strands of 20awg or use 14awg for fewer strands.

Personally I am getting to like 20awg wire because 6 strands
going to a single high powered transistor has more circular
mill diameter and produces radiant much more easily.

I will soon post more pictures of my tiny little brain storm.
I look at the circuit and think how much time I have put into
it and it is so small, hardly seems significant.

But it is significant to keep the oscillators/energizers from
burning up in all circumstances.
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  #116  
Old 06-01-2015, 03:51 AM
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One more thing about dropping resistors at 26volts and 28volts
and running a low powered long duration charge up to 31+ volts.
If you don't get this part of Energizing a battery then your battery
bank will not set at 13.2volts.

If your battery is setting at 13volts after a charge you are charging
to quickly and probably with to much power.

If you don't learn this, you won't understand why your battery
life is so short. My batteries have been run for so long the right
way that they are getting higher and higher.

My huge batteries sit at 13.5 volts now after 1 year of properly
handling them.

Thanks for listening.

Mikey
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  #117  
Old 06-01-2015, 06:53 AM
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Here are a few pictures posted on my website.

The long thin relay that is the largest is the latching relay.

All values will be posted some time in the future for this

24volt energizer and control board. The only diagram I have

so far is the one above maybe 2 posts back that has 3 channels.

That diagram is incomplete.

I have shown circuits that generally work and not testing is

underway.
















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  #118  
Old 06-02-2015, 09:38 AM
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Hi Dupe

I have a statement and a question for you.As I have
been building these control boards I find that your suggestion
to use 1 percent resistors is a good idea on the gates of the SCR's.

However one thing I am noticing (I am still using MY crowbar)
is that as I increase or decrease charging input current this
slightly changes the resistance level trigger.

For an example (Not that I need to yet) if I go from 2 amps
on the input all of the way down to 200ma I see a non linear
response.

QUESTION

As you put it before that it is a good idea to stabilize the gates
of the SCR's do you think that the voltage divider and zener
on your circuit will keep this from happening?

Okay again I am eventually going to make a more versatile
Energizer for experimental use that will go from 100ma all the
way up to 2 amps so I need to see my crowbars respond the same
at all amp input levels.

Do you think the circuit using the divider will keep my voltage
setting based on resistance for the gate closer to the same
at all inputs?

I can clarify further if you did not understand my statements.

I will try it soon in the next circuits. For now my 2 amp scooter
charger works okay because all of my amp levels
are planned out for each crowbar.

Either way I will have to try your circuit using the divider and zener
as it seems a to be the next best idea

Mikey PS i think your circuit is gonna bee a lifesaver, DUPE
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  #119  
Old 06-02-2015, 08:27 PM
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Hi Mikey, My circuit is based on monitoring the voltage as seen on the battery being charged i.e. 12v / 24v etc. Preventing an over voltage situation occurring. I kind of understand what you are saying... you need to control your charging current at predetermined levels you select? In which case say you want to charge at 2amps and no more or no less then your charge ideally needs to be a constant current source. To an extent depends on what method you are using to charge your cells of course! Dupe
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  #120  
Old 06-02-2015, 08:43 PM
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Mikey are you currently using your SSG board 3 charger. I notice this shows a 14v run battery how have you configured it?
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