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  #1141  
Old 10-10-2012, 12:24 PM
harctan harctan is offline
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So I was messing around with my fan trying out different things and I got it to self oscillate without the fan rotating as many others have reported before. It happened when I replaced the emitter-base diode from a 1n4007 to a 1n4148. At first the fan spins but as i increase the base resistance the fan stops but the coils keep oscillating. Then I can remove the fan and i can increase the resistance all the way to 10k and it still oscillates although it becomes silent. And it only works with the charge battery connected. The weird part though is that it only works with one particular transistor. NOT one type of transistor (I only use 2N3055 anyway) but one in particular from the 4 identical I tried.Go figure.
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  #1142  
Old 10-10-2012, 01:54 PM
harctan harctan is offline
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And the weirdness continues! I hooked the ssg circuit from the fan to my little monopole motor (skateboard wheel with 4 ceramic magnets). I tried all 5 transistors I had (2N3055),both used and brand new, while keeping all other components exactly the same. The same transistor that can make my fan self-oscillate is the same that works best on the monopole. It is the only one from the 5 transistors that can work with 470 Ohms base resistance and above and produce purple flashes on the neon. The rest need much less base resistance to keep the wheel rotating and only produce orange neon light. Any thoughts on this?
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  #1143  
Old 10-10-2012, 02:28 PM
harctan harctan is offline
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Ok, I looked at the transistors closer and realised that the one that does the "magic" is the only one that survived from the first batch that I bought some months back (the one on the right). The rest I bought later and from a different shop (at half the price). It looks like although they are supposed to be identical they differ somewhat and that makes a noticable impact on the system. I think it's time i visited that first shop again.
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  #1144  
Old 10-10-2012, 07:37 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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Originally Posted by mbrownn View Post
Yes, after 6 to 10 cycles you wont see much more improvement. To be honest I have never had good experiences with sealed gel batteries. I stick to the old fashioned ones you have to top up with distilled water.
Try to add a little distilled water to Sealed gel batts. I did this and seemed that they're began behaving better.
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  #1145  
Old 10-10-2012, 11:36 PM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Try to add a little distilled water to Sealed gel batts. I did this and seemed that they're began behaving better.
yes adding distilled water helps
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  #1146  
Old 10-10-2012, 11:39 PM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Originally Posted by harctan View Post
Ok, I looked at the transistors closer and realised that the one that does the "magic" is the only one that survived from the first batch that I bought some months back (the one on the right). The rest I bought later and from a different shop (at half the price). It looks like although they are supposed to be identical they differ somewhat and that makes a noticable impact on the system. I think it's time i visited that first shop again.
Maybe its the quality of the parts, I can only get cheap Chinese parts and some transistors work better than others but if i run my Bedini without a charging battery the the good transistors start to perform like the not so good ones. maybe they get partially damaged by the high voltage.
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  #1147  
Old 11-12-2012, 04:02 AM
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streamingindie streamingindie is offline
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Respect and promotion with brass spheres

I have a project that is going to be very public.
I would like to share this with you and refer your work and possibly give you funds for assembly of your chargers to support your research and do a fundraiser at the same time.

Check out the video on youtube here
Around the World on 80 watts 1 - YouTube
and let me know if I can get approval for your work, if you want the quick assembly fee I am planning and of course I would welcome any collaboration you are willing to engage.

This will be as big as we as a group decide to make it and in the video above I am showing my intent for full credit of innovators like you and this message shows my intent to share any profits that are made with your ideas and work.
It is a rough video yet as I need to give more details for the intent and execution of the Webseries and the ships logs. Let me know what you think. Of course I will take the video down immediately if you ask.
Respectfully
Streamingindie
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  #1148  
Old 11-12-2012, 08:52 AM
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streamingindie streamingindie is offline
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Additional note.

As an aside to this. The video is not to be the final release and is kept unlisted.

I had to use the build on this thread to recover my demo battery and had some rather strange occurrences with the noisy charger. It did however run for over a week on a 18 volt drill battery but wouldn't properly charge other drill batteries of the same type. (obviously a discussion for a different thread.)

My sincerest hope is that we can actually rally some efforts together and create a platform to reveal the truths of working technologies and by trial and test show practical solutions to larger problems.

I want to support the innovators and inventors socially and financially and will use any links to kits endorsed by the creators of those same devices as the proper terminals direct me to.

I believe that Mr Bedini and others here deserve a great deal more of both, and feel the same for you Imhotep, as yours was the first design I was able to make work and has that "Off the shelf practicality" that I needed to go from reader and researcher to builder and tester.

Again, Thank you.
Notes from any other members are welcome.
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  #1149  
Old 11-12-2012, 12:35 PM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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I think the reason for no one replying is your request for funds, its not really in the spirit of the thread or Imhoteps gift to us.

The IRO is an excellent device and is great for learning and recovering batteries but is a free gift to the people.

Try this one and then compare it to what you have then start a thread on it Circuit Simulator Applet
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  #1150  
Old 11-12-2012, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mbrownn View Post
I think the reason for no one replying is your request for funds, its not really in the spirit of the thread or Imhoteps gift to us.

The IRO is an excellent device and is great for learning and recovering batteries but is a free gift to the people.

Try this one and then compare it to what you have then start a thread on it Circuit Simulator Applet
This was not a request for funds.
I am not asking anyone to fund it from here.
I will obtain the funds myself and plan to pay for assembly and handling of the simple circuit.
I have already worked out all the logistics but wanted to bring the plan to this community.
If however the members here are all too beaten down by the ignorant and see my proposal as some money grubbing venture then the usefulness of this forum is only to accumulate data and I will just go on without you.

The free gift to the people is beyond most to assemble, simple as it is and I think it is the perfect device to bring the concept of radiant energy to the masses but hasn't penetrated the society to the degree to make a difference.
I had hoped that people here would be more interested in exposition. I do plan to give the information broadly but am trying to create a place to make something that will take the purpose to the next level.

So don't put me in the category of the cleptocracy that has a grip on mankind.
I am actually offended.
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  #1151  
Old 11-12-2012, 11:22 PM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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I apologize, I do not wish to offend, I'm simply pointing out a reason why there has been little response.

There has been many occasions where the work of members of this and other forums has been exploited, some of them have even had their ideas patented by others preventing them using their own device. Sad but true.

I agree that it is an under used technology and it is true that most people would not attempt to build such a device.

Did you take a look at the circuit I posted? It is a variant of the simple IRO which has been said to be more efficient. There are many such improvements that have been posted on this and other forums along with electronic variants such as the SG and SSG by John Bedini. The SSG by John Bedini is the simplest of these and is what this thread is about and using a computer fan to do it. The device is patented by the inventor but we are free to build one for our own use.
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  #1152  
Old 11-13-2012, 03:58 AM
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streamingindie streamingindie is offline
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Originally Posted by mbrownn View Post
I apologize, I do not wish to offend, I'm simply pointing out a reason why there has been little response.

There has been many occasions where the work of members of this and other forums has been exploited, some of them have even had their ideas patented by others preventing them using their own device. Sad but true.

I agree that it is an under used technology and it is true that most people would not attempt to build such a device.

Did you take a look at the circuit I posted? It is a variant of the simple IRO which has been said to be more efficient. There are many such improvements that have been posted on this and other forums along with electronic variants such as the SG and SSG by John Bedini. The SSG by John Bedini is the simplest of these and is what this thread is about and using a computer fan to do it. The device is patented by the inventor but we are free to build one for our own use.
I did and am digging into my own parts to test it out.
Thank you for understanding. the very last thing I want to be associated with is the type of exploitation you mentioned.
I want to create new attention and use the links to the actual inventor's products to get people to buy and support them.
By showing devices working in a high production value televised or high end (looking) web series I believe we can lend more credibility to the efforts of all.

That is why I brought this here.
I really am here to serve.
Bring attention.
Bring value.
Bring change.

Thank you for your response.
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  #1153  
Old 11-14-2012, 05:17 AM
Khwartz Khwartz is offline
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Originally Posted by streamingindie View Post
This was not a request for funds.
I am not asking anyone to fund it from here.
I will obtain the funds myself and plan to pay for assembly and handling of the simple circuit.
I have already worked out all the logistics but wanted to bring the plan to this community.
If however the members here are all too beaten down by the ignorant and see my proposal as some money grubbing venture then the usefulness of this forum is only to accumulate data and I will just go on without you.

The free gift to the people is beyond most to assemble, simple as it is and I think it is the perfect device to bring the concept of radiant energy to the masses but hasn't penetrated the society to the degree to make a difference.
I had hoped that people here would be more interested in exposition. I do plan to give the information broadly but am trying to create a place to make something that will take the purpose to the next level.

So don't put me in the category of the cleptocracy that has a grip on mankind.
I am actually offended.
Hi! I'm agree with you: there is a need to create the reality in large public that "radiant energy" exists and can be used.

I think even like a decorative funny desk object runing by itself could do that, if with a enough powerful fan that poeple could notice that it couldn't run indefinetely like this is the battery wouldn't be charged back itself continuously.

Regards.
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  #1154  
Old 11-15-2012, 02:56 PM
harctan harctan is offline
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Ok, so I have converted 4 different fans and after numerous tests my results so far have been ranging from average to poor. I have tried tuning them using different methods: with neon brightness, coil noise, highest charging voltage and finally highest speed to amp draw ratio using a tachometer. I have ran the fans from a pc power supply at 12V or 24V and at currents ranging from 30mA to 200mA. Test batteries are two conditioned 12V 1.3Ah sealed lead-acid. As a load I use a 12V 50mA light bulb. I will drain the battery using the light bulb down to a certain voltage (e.g. 12.00V), then let it rest. Afterwards I charge it with the fan for several hours, then let it rest. Finally I discharge it again using the same load down to the same voltage (12.00V in this example). During charge-discharge I monitor volts and amperes along with the time and so calculate watt-hours in and watt-hours out. I divide the two to get the charging efficiency. So far the best I have achieved is about 50% and that was at solid state self-oscillating mode with a slave coil parallel to the power coil. With the fan rotating it's far less at 20-30%. Nowhere near the almost 1:1 ratio (90%+ charge efficiency). I also tried cycling the batteries, using one as power source to charge the other and then swapping, but the results were the same. I don't know if I'm missing something here but I'm running short on ideas. Any input on this?
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  #1155  
Old 11-16-2012, 12:10 AM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Originally Posted by harctan View Post
Ok, so I have converted 4 different fans and after numerous tests my results so far have been ranging from average to poor. I have tried tuning them using different methods: with neon brightness, coil noise, highest charging voltage and finally highest speed to amp draw ratio using a tachometer. I have ran the fans from a pc power supply at 12V or 24V and at currents ranging from 30mA to 200mA. Test batteries are two conditioned 12V 1.3Ah sealed lead-acid. As a load I use a 12V 50mA light bulb. I will drain the battery using the light bulb down to a certain voltage (e.g. 12.00V), then let it rest. Afterwards I charge it with the fan for several hours, then let it rest. Finally I discharge it again using the same load down to the same voltage (12.00V in this example). During charge-discharge I monitor volts and amperes along with the time and so calculate watt-hours in and watt-hours out. I divide the two to get the charging efficiency. So far the best I have achieved is about 50% and that was at solid state self-oscillating mode with a slave coil parallel to the power coil. With the fan rotating it's far less at 20-30%. Nowhere near the almost 1:1 ratio (90%+ charge efficiency). I also tried cycling the batteries, using one as power source to charge the other and then swapping, but the results were the same. I don't know if I'm missing something here but I'm running short on ideas. Any input on this?
Those are the worst result I have ever heard of, not good at all. To diagnose your problem I will need a few questions answering.

What is the resistance of your coils?

How high does the voltage go when charging? For a 12v lead acid expect 14.4, if it is lead calcium it will be higher, 15+. If you are using gel cells they typically fail if they have been overcharged for any length of time.

What type of batteries are you using?

As far as I am aware, the high charging efficiency is only on lead acid/calcium type batteries and won't be on zinc carbon or nicad.

If the batteries are still recovering from being sulphated, the charge efficiency will be low like you describe but the recovery will only take a few cycles if you drive the voltage up to the maximum charge voltage.
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  #1156  
Old 11-16-2012, 09:23 AM
harctan harctan is offline
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Hello mbrownn. I appreciate you taking the time to troubleshoot this with me, it helps me not to give up on the project. The coil resistance in my fans are: 1st fan 70 Ohms, 2nd fan 50 Ohms, 3rd fan 16 Ohms(partialy rewired), 4th fan 5 Ohms(rewired). My batteries are 2 sealed lead-acid 12V 1.3Ah. I bought them new about 2 months ago and only used pulse charging on them. I have charged them all the way to 14.5V and they seem they could go higher but I didn't want to push them. In my tests I rarely charged them all the way because it would seem sometimes that they will need days to finish. Overall the batteries behave fine and I have no reason to suspect there is something wrong with them. On a side note, yesterday I tried the Bedini oscillator from patent US7990110 in it's simplest form (basically a solid state SSG). I haven't taken any measurements yet but it looks like the batteries are charging way better than they ever did with the fans.
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  #1157  
Old 11-16-2012, 02:28 PM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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With these batteries you want about 65ma input so you might need a higher resistance fan. you should aim for a 20 hour charge time for maximum efficiency. Your discharges should also be done over 20 hours at about 65ma, if you discharge in a few hours your battery efficiency drops right off. Your 50ma bulb isn't that far off and should be OK.

What ever your input current is, divide the Ah rating of the battery by it and that should give you an indication of how long to charge the battery with that current. If the battery does not reach fully charged in more or less that time, then it is sulphated or damaged. Badly sulphated batteries can take a week to recover their voltage.

When you discharge them, don't take the voltage down below 90% of the fully charged standing voltage, that can damage them. Don't let them rest for more than an hour when discharged as this is when they sulphate up.

Is it a lead calcium battery? If so then the voltage is higher, what is the make and model of the battery?

I had one lead calcium that was 15.9v fully charged, standing at 14.2 or so volts
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  #1158  
Old 11-16-2012, 10:15 PM
harctan harctan is offline
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My batteries are lead-acid and they are these: http://www.ultracell.co.uk/datasheet...s/UL1.3-12.pdf. In 3 of the 4 fans the input current is well within the C20 rating (65mA or less). I don't t discharge the batteries below 11.5V and I don't leave them standing discharged for a long time.
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  #1159  
Old 11-17-2012, 03:27 AM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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It does not look like these batteries are lead calcium, commonly they have the symbol PbCa written on them so recyclers know what they are dealing with.

Try using the fan to discharge the battery down to 12.02v, then recharge it with the fan. it should take the same amount of time to bring the battery up as it took to discharge it + or - 10%.

Try the same thing again on a different brand of battery.

I have read back through the thread and you do seem to be doing everything right, I suspect it is the batteries but cannot be sure. If you can get a very cheap motorcycle battery, the type that you top up with distilled water and try that. These are the best type to use with a Bedini in my opinion.

I use only 1N4007 for both diodes, 2N3055 transistors from china, a 5w wire wound pot and #27 wire, the fan only just runs slowly with a 12v supply at the sweet spot and will sometimes stall as the voltage drops but continues to self oscillate. With finer wire and more turns the fan runs fine, at about 30% of the unmodified fan speed. There is nothing special about what I use. and there is nothing special about the Bedini circuit. The effect is always in the battery, It is the pulsing that causes it and that is why I suspect the battery.

The only other thing it could be, other than defective parts, is that you are not on the sweet spot. This must be very frustrating for you.

The most common part to fail is the pot, carbon film pots cannot handle the power. If you are using a carbon film pot and it is getting warm then it is already burned out and you probably are not on the sweet spot. Sniff the pot, do you get that burned electronics smell or ozone smell?

Did you try a higher voltage supply?
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  #1160  
Old 11-17-2012, 09:05 AM
harctan harctan is offline
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Yes, my batteries do not seem to be lead calcium. I will try your suggestion and get a motorcycle battery to see if there will be a difference. I have tried 24V on two of the fans but the results were the same. I also use 2n3055 transistors and 1n4007 diodes. The pot is indeed carbon film but I never had a problem with them overheating or burning. As for the sweet spot it's highly unlikely that I missed it with all the tests I have performed. Also I'm baffled as to how you get these fans running with #27 wire. I never managed to get them running with anything thicker than #32 (0.2mm).
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  #1161  
Old 11-17-2012, 03:15 PM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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I used #27 wire in both computer fans and larger cooling fans, I can't remember the figures for the computer fan but this is for the larger 5" fans that I now use. My #27 wire coils were 5.2 ohms, with a 12v supply, using ohms law we would have a potential to run 2.3 amps through the coil which is 27 watts, but as you know the transistor cuts the current off. My average draw of current was 230ma which is 2.76 watts. As it is a bifilar coil it tries to push that power through the pot, no carbon pot would survive this power, that is why I use a 5w wire wound pot. At the sweet spot the resistance of the pot is around 68 ohms. Under ohms law we have the potential to put 164ma through the pot, again a carbon film pot would not survive.
On a computer fan the coils are much lower resistance and I had problems running it on 12v and usually used 24v I never did efficiency tests on the small fan so maybe I am misleading you there but the 5" fans were 90+% efficient, the best being 97% + or - 5% error.

My fan is similar to this WATER-PROOF FAN IP58 12V 0.5 A from Conrad Electronic UK

I suggest that if you are using a carbon pot either your resistance is too high or it is burnt out. This would explain why you are having problems to run your fan. If your fan does run it is likely that the carbon film has shorted and your resistance is too low. either way you wont be on the sweet spot.

Even with the standard windings of a computer fan, at 80 ohms, the carbon film pots tend to fail. I suggest that this may be the problem.
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:46 PM
harctan harctan is offline
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In the first picture I attach you can see a 5'' fan which I have rewired with #32. I had previously tried with #26 and #28 but they would not work no matter what I tried. They just didn't seem to have enough turns. Even with the #32 wire I cannot run it using 5'' fans (shown on the left). Even with 10 Ohms base resistance it just runs for a couple of seconds and then stops. I have to use the smaller 3'' fan. This one I probably haven't tuned correctly and also my batteries are too small for the current (~200mA). The other three fans (shown in the second picture) are within the C20 rating and I'm more confident about their tuning. As for the pots I use (also shown in the first picture) I have trouble believing there's something wrong with them since they seem to work fine, meaning that I can change the fan speed, neon brightness, amp draw by turning them with no problems whatsoever.
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  #1163  
Old 11-18-2012, 03:44 PM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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All we can do is a process of elimination, replace one part at a time until we find the problem.

I have had transistors that worked really well and then after disconcerting the charging battery while running to check with the neon they did not work so well. Its like they were partially damaged because they still checked out on the meter.

I never use a neon now but never run the fan without a charging battery connected.
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:06 PM
harctan harctan is offline
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Sounds like a plan. First I'll go get a motorcycle battery. I'll also get some new transistors and see if I can find a wire wound pot. We'll see what happens.
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  #1165  
Old 11-28-2012, 01:59 PM
harctan harctan is offline
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I got a flooded lead acid motorcycle battery 12V 4Ah to experiment with and see if I get better results. I'm currently taking it through charge-discharge cycles as to condition it. Meanwhile I've been playing around with oscillator software using the pc soundcard (and a voltage divider so I don't fry the motherboard). I read in other threads that some guys used an oscilloscope to tune their monopole motors with this simple method: increase base resistance until you go from one pulse per magnet pass to two pulses per magnet pass, then go down again to one pulse and that's it. I'd be interested to know if that is a valid method of tuning and if that would also apply to the modified fans. I attached the probes of my homemade oscilloscope between the collector and emitter of the transistor to see how it pulsed. The pictures I attach show the results starting with high base resistance and then lowering it. You can see that as I lower the resistance I get less pulses until I get only two with the one lasting much longer than the other (at 56 Ohms). But the sweet spot, using the neon to evaluate it (after I unhook the charging battery), is much closer to the first pictures where there seem to be more pulses. In fact in the last picture (at 56 Ohms) the neon doesn't light and the charging is very poor, if any. I'd like to know if these results are accurate and what do they mean exactly. Also is there some other way to use this basic oscilloscope in this project?

P.S. Mbrownn I read on the lockridge thread about your lab. I am sorry to hear that, I hope you get it up and running soon.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg scope1.jpg (14.5 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg scope2.jpg (14.2 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg scope3.jpg (14.0 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg scope4.jpg (12.1 KB, 11 views)
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  #1166  
Old 11-29-2012, 12:10 AM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Using a scope you want the highest voltage spikes, the number of spikes is not important with the fan. The single spike, double spike etc is more relevant to the bicycle wheel SSG. Your first picture looks more like what you should be getting.

Try measuring the charging battery with your scope, you should see small spikes and this is a lower risk of killing your computer. Tune so you have the highest voltage on the battery. you will see that these small spikes start at about 2v above battery voltage and then drop down to a few milli volts as the battery charges.

Thanks for your concern, its just what you get living in the third world. It isn't effecting my research as the motor we have is in the U.S. in the hands of another member.
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  #1167  
Old 12-08-2012, 09:41 PM
jessica.emanski jessica.emanski is offline
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I am kind of a newbie to this stuff but I have seen some Youtube videos of Imhotep's circuit and wanted to give it a try. I don't want to run a fan or motor, I just want to run lights (like a light bulb). I have seen a Youtube video were someone ran a light bulb for a couple days while the batteries were doing their charging. I also read mbrownn's post about his experience running lights while charging his batteries as having around 97-110% efficiency. So I have two questions: 1) What circuit would be best for running a light bulb?, and 2) What experience's have you had with lights as the load to your circuit? How long have you had the light shining for? Thanks so much for all your help!
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Old 12-09-2012, 03:52 AM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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97 to 110% efficiency is the overall efficiency when counting the fan power and how much you get in the charging battery.

I have not had much experience lighting bulbs with the fan, I don't know where you got that idea from I have lit fluorescent bulbs with the IRO, google Imhoteps radiant oscillator lite and you will find lots of information on this. Alternatively you could slave an ignition coil on the fan to light small florescents but Your charging efficiency will drop.

It is possible to replace the pot with bulbs of the same resistance on the fan and have them light up while it is running but you wont get a lot from one of these little fans.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:44 AM
newwalter newwalter is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
extension cord free energy

dear friends,

can anybody explain how that guy made it work?
I was trying to understand it but no successfull.

Free Energy Generator 2 - YouTube

I would be grateful if someone could tell me where is the hook
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Old 12-12-2012, 01:07 PM
harctan harctan is offline
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 86
Hello newwalter. I'm 99.99% confident that this video is fake along with other videos from the same user. He is probably using some trick (like a magician) to give the illusion that it works. It would be great if it was that simple but it's highly unlikely. Unfortunately there is a lot of noise when researching these kinds of technology and it can get furstrating trying to seperate the ones that are valid from the rest. I hope this helps.
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