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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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  #1081 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2012, 03:55 AM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khwartz View Post
Could be we should find this in academic physics too, could be around the Feynman's concept of "vector-potential".
Maybe, I am no expert on this so I put it in simple terms and let others come up with the complex explanation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khwartz View Post
If high voltage, looks to me quiet normal to have very little amps! for same wattage...

Would be interesting so to calculate the ratios to compare in terms of Watts. But needs to be done with True-RMS meters! but You told me, if I remember well, that measurements changes itself the values; right? :/
Yes, many have measured the output with the best equipment available and cannot explain it in terms of watts. The output is small when compared to the input, yet the charge found in the battery is almost equal to the input. They usually use the word anomalous when explaining the charging effect

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Originally Posted by Khwartz View Post
But to be "unnormal", I'm not sure for this evaluation. EM does exist in molecules and atoms. I'd be very curious to do same experiment in vacuum, to know if comes from air-molecules or directly form the (Dirac's) "plenum".
This has been done, even by NASA and the results support the existence of the plenum or aether.


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Originally Posted by Khwartz View Post
As electricity has much to do with waves, and as waves behaviour can produce kind of attractions, and that could be any flow of energy has a tendency to set the environment to follow the same path (the very venturi-effect), I would not be surprised that if the aether does exist, it would have same effect with high voltage than with high pressure (while, and it's very interesting for me: both are mathematically equivalent in physics equation in terms of behaviour). Hight pressure => hight particles or waves speed => venturi effect.
Being a mechanical guy I usually compare voltage with pressure or force but in relation to the Imhotep fan, where is the flow on the output? there is little or no amps. Some have used the word inertia to explain the charging but again the math does not add up. So in truth we cannot fully explain it without a second input that we cannot accurately measure, hence the explanation of radiant energy or the aether. Its deep stuff.

This simple fan device has done its job in showing us that there is more to this than we have in the standard electrical theory that is taught to electricians. It has also demonstrated that there is more energy in this system than we put in.
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  #1082 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2012, 09:16 PM
Khwartz Khwartz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrownn View Post
Maybe, I am no expert on this so I put it in simple terms and let others come up with the complex explanation.
ok

Quote:
Yes, many have measured the output with the best equipment available and cannot explain it in terms of watts. The output is small when compared to the input, yet the charge found in the battery is almost equal to the input. They usually use the word anomalous when explaining the charging effect
Here is a link which could interest you, it's about charging batteries too, but with "the big" system

Oscillating Harmonic Ripple Wave BATTERY CHARGING - YouTube

Quote:
This has been done, even by NASA and the results support the existence of the plenum or aether.
Could you give me links on this please, that I could check by myself the experimental conditions and conclusions?

Quote:
Being a mechanical guy I usually compare voltage with pressure or force but in relation to the Imhotep fan, where is the flow on the output? there is little or no amps.
Yes, but once again: if high voltage, of course few amps... The energy would be "communicated" by few charge-carriers but very high excited ones.

Quote:
Some have used the word inertia to explain the charging but again the math does not add up.
I'm still not convince on this statement.

Quote:
So in truth we cannot fully explain it without a second input that we cannot accurately measure, hence the explanation of radiant energy or the aether. Its deep stuff.
No problem with the "second input" if it energy form the plenum! Like we take energy from the wins, or more accurately from the waves of the sea.

Quote:
This simple fan device has done its job in showing us that there is more to this than we have in the standard electrical theory that is taught to electricians.
yeah, ordinary electrician, cause I am electrician

But there are whole area of EM theories which are not much known or used. Like sine a while EM is taught in terms of fields while it could be taught in terms of potentials.

this last viewpoint in EM physics is more fundamental and more general than fields expressions and could probably enlightening the phenomena we observe in these "exotics" experiments.

All what I dream is to have time to go through all this in mathematical terms, but I'm afraid I'll have never the time and the tranquillity to have the privilege to do so in this life before others could do so :/

Quote:
It has also demonstrated that there is more energy in this system than we put in.
Yes, looks like

If You go on the link I've pasted, you'll find some calculation I've made today about the vid in a comment. I think it demonstrate well an adding energy

Cheer.
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  #1083 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:28 AM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khwartz View Post
ok


Here is a link which could interest you, it's about charging batteries too, but with "the big" system

Oscillating Harmonic Ripple Wave BATTERY CHARGING - YouTube
I still do not fully understand his generator but his motor makes perfect sense to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Khwartz View Post
ok Could you give me links on this please, that I could check by myself the experimental conditions and conclusions?
I can't remember the sites where I read about this but I know some of NASA's 1000+ patents are related to the experiments they did. There was everything from complex homo-polar generators to the tether experiment. They did say in some of the experiments that they concluded that extra energy was entering the system and there was reference to the aether and other such terms but again what was key was environmental energy. I know on the tether experiment, they had a number of theories as to what happened as the voltage and power was way in excess of what they expected. They have now concluded that a plasma of air in the wire was to blame for the burn out of the tether but they haven't explained where the extra energy came from to cause the plasma in their explanation of the burn out. When I do come across the info again I will have to let you know where it is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Khwartz View Post
Yes, but once again: if high voltage, of course few amps... The energy would be "communicated" by few charge-carriers but very high excited ones.


I'm still not convince on this statement.
Do the volts times amps calculation for the input and output of the fan and you find that the output in watts is way lower than the input, yet the battery still charges at close to the input of the fan. The mathematics of that does not add up but clearly it is happening. When charging a battery with a fan I had an input of around 12v at 80mA the output was spikes of 17 at only single figure mA and that should not have charged the battery at near 1 to 1 with such a loss in power but it did. I would like mainstream science to look at that and try to explain it but as of now they have not looked at it and relied on Hollywood science to explain it.

Personally I think it is energy from the environment and I am sure you are familiar with the terms used to explain it. Can I personally prove it? only in so much as what the fan does and other such systems.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Khwartz View Post
I am electrician
Do you find the results anomalous? what is your explanation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khwartz View Post
But there are whole area of EM theories which are not much known or used. Like sine a while EM is taught in terms of fields while it could be taught in terms of potentials.

this last viewpoint in EM physics is more fundamental and more general than fields expressions and could probably enlightening the phenomena we observe in these "exotics" experiments.

All what I dream is to have time to go through all this in mathematical terms, but I'm afraid I'll have never the time and the tranquillity to have the privilege to do so in this life before others could do so :/
Clearly you do think there is more to it than standard electrical theory and I agree with you on that. There has been no advancement on the mathematics of this since Bedini in the 80's as far as I am aware so if you persist maybe you will be the one to bring new light onto the subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khwartz View Post
If You go on the link I've pasted, you'll find some calculation I've made today about the vid in a comment. I think it demonstrate well an adding energy

Cheer.
The initial voltage rise on a battery which is put on charge is not linear and does not make sense to me, but the fact is it does rise in such a way so we have to not make too much of this initial rise until it is better understood.

The statement he makes about three times is interesting as my calculations on a circuit I am working on is 2.7: Without losses, inductive kickback would be x2 then if it is a transformer as well would that make it x4. Now we add a motoring function to our transformer and we have x6 but the ohmic and iron losses soon take up the majority of that energy.

This isn't really about the fan so we should make a new thread to discuss it
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  #1084 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:28 PM
mrtonmoy mrtonmoy is offline
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  #1085 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2012, 10:46 PM
Khwartz Khwartz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrownn View Post
I still do not fully understand his generator but his motor makes perfect sense to me.
ok

Quote:
I can't remember the sites where I read about this but I know some of NASA's 1000+ patents are related to the experiments they did. There was everything from complex homo-polar generators to the tether experiment. They did say in some of the experiments that they concluded that extra energy was entering the system and there was reference to the aether and other such terms but again what was key was environmental energy. I know on the tether experiment, they had a number of theories as to what happened as the voltage and power was way in excess of what they expected. They have now concluded that a plasma of air in the wire was to blame for the burn out of the tether but they haven't explained where the extra energy came from to cause the plasma in their explanation of the burn out. When I do come across the info again I will have to let you know where it is.
Very interesting if the NASA have done such experiments

Quote:
Do the volts times amps calculation for the input and output of the fan and you find that the output in watts is way lower than the input, yet the battery still charges at close to the input of the fan. The mathematics of that does not add up but clearly it is happening. When charging a battery with a fan I had an input of around 12v at 80mA the output was spikes of 17 at only single figure mA and that should not have charged the battery at near 1 to 1 with such a loss in power but it did. I would like mainstream science to look at that and try to explain it but as of now they have not looked at it and relied on Hollywood science to explain it.
Yeah, that's why I would like to free me to entirely use my time for university-studies in physics to clear-up that kind of phenomena with laboratory experiments...

Quote:
Personally I think it is energy from the environment and I am sure you are familiar with the terms used to explain it.
Sad enough I thin I far to be able to, just have some path-concepts like the "potential-vector" I told you which is already old concept but like never used (about EM energy that could create electricity without magnetic field), and concepts of symmetries and anti-symmetries in particle-physics (symmetry: the flux are balanced in the exchanges of energy, and symmetries: unbalanced but doesn't mean something is wasted nor gain in the whole world but yes can be on a specific viewpoint or level of energy, like could be the hypothetical plenum energy that could feed our systems here).

Quote:
Can I personally prove it? only in so much as what the fan does and other such systems.
That's why I think rigorous laboratory-experiments looked to me very needed.

Quote:
Do you find the results anomalous? what is your explanation?
To speak about "anomalous", needs to say if reference of what criterion! Is that compare to the teaching of electricity in hight school? of the first years of University? or at the Doctorate level? these are not really the same basic concepts and many of the EM concepts are even not taught! (like the tow concepts I've referred too up to here).

I've already given you my idea of explanation: it's yes about plenum-energies been essentially waves energies that could be aspired by hight voltage EM-waves at specific frequencies. The fan itself could work as the waves generator with high voltage-spikes due to resonance phenomenon. But I'm not able presently to put this in mathematical terms, and that's why I would like to free me form my job to go through this one day....

Quote:
Clearly you do think there is more to it than standard electrical theory
No, all at the contrary: I do say anywhere that "standard electricity" should explain but it all depends of "which" level of "standard electricity" we talk about. But "yes", if you mean by "standard" the one taught in high school.

Quote:
and I agree with you on that. There has been no advancement on the mathematics of this since Bedini in the 80's as far as I am aware
They are many aspect of fundamental physic that are not known by non-specialist publics and even specialists. They are just not used or nor used in ways which probably couldn't bring to explain the results we talk about. Could be, they are not taught in the purpose to preserve the indeed "standard" idea of energy-conservation and mostly idea of general need for costing energy for fuel and nuclear lobbies; even if for me this law conservation of energy does exist but just depends on which level we observe.

Quote:
so if you persist maybe you will be the one to bring new light onto the subject.
Would be my very pleasure but life realities make me very very uncertain to be able to achieve that but in retreat while since it will have chances to be already done any way! (In fact, all this is probably done by several doctorates in physics and even by most notorious ones, like Karanev, but still not go enough in his work to say so with certainty).

Quote:
The initial voltage rise on a battery which is put on charge is not linear and does not make sense to me, but the fact is it does rise in such a way so we have to not make too much of this initial rise until it is better understood.
Could be.

Quote:
The statement he makes about three times is interesting as my calculations on a circuit I am working on is 2.7: Without losses, inductive kickback would be x2 then if it is a transformer as well would that make it x4. Now we add a motoring function to our transformer and we have x6 but the ohmic and iron losses soon take up the majority of that energy.
From Thane Heins experiments about hight impedance coils: the impedance lows with certain frequency and even more under-load.
As Tom Bearden looks to suggest, a part of the energy could flow OUTSIDE of the wires too (by "virtual particles"); so that ordinary Ohm-law could not apply.

Quote:
This isn't really about the fan so we should make a new thread to discuss it
Huum, yes, on the specifics, but not on the basics I think, not in the fundamental "laws" of EM-energy.

Sorry if you wait my next answer, you could wait 1 or even several weeks sometimes :/ But waiting this time, thanks for your always constructive conversation

And if you don't know what to do, this is a link which could answer few questions on fundamentals mathematics about EM

Professor Ph. M. Kanarev, Krasnodar

Especially "The New Law of Electrical Power Formation." about a common error in calculation of electrical power...

Cheer.
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  #1086 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2012, 12:30 AM
MacGyver MacGyver is offline
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now my interest has been sparked. i have 3 of these large computer fans to experiment with, i was wondering if the big fan could in turn power a smaller computer fan without stopping, may go for it and see if i freak out any of the guys at work. anyways, i was thinking of using a quick-connect and use the big fan to run a smaller fan in my grinding sheild at work to keep the air moving , which will be a great help to me during the summer months here. i will also have to get me another multimeter to check ohms and voltages and all so i can get this done right. i am also going to be checking at my local radio shack for the capacitor like in the video. they have almost everything else electronic. just think, if the big fan can run 24/7 by itself, instead of buying a small fan to go into the headboard of a bed, the computer fan could do the same thing.

once i find where i placed the fans and get them apart to modify them according to the videos, i will post the results of my experiments, and possibly even put some video onto youtube.
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  #1087 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2012, 11:10 AM
harctan harctan is offline
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Hello all. This is my first post here. Since I didn't have the courage to go through all the pages of this thread I must apologise in advance if this has been asked and answered before. First I think the claim of the title about free energy is ridiculous (please prove me wrong). Second I'm interested if someone has measured the efficiency of this modified fan compared to a standard one. Perhaps this could be done by using two fans, one modified and one not, and measuring the air flow with some simple method and finally comparing the run times when using identical batteries. On the modified one you could then swap the batteries until the batteries couldn't run the fan. So what I'm asking is if this design is overall more efficient or does it just take part of the energy that would otherwise be used to blow air and store it in the second battery.
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  #1088 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2012, 09:01 AM
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diScoVerY_01 diScoVerY_01 is offline
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hi Imhotep,i'm just new here. i found your thread so interesting. by the way, what can this thing do? what's the purpose of this thing? i'm just curious because i'm only a grade 8 student.
thanks in advance
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  #1089 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2012, 11:31 AM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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I haven't seen Imhotep post for a while, so I don't know if he will reply.

The Imhotep Fan is a simple and easy to build Bedini SSG energizer. It will charge almost any battery, even zinc carbon ones. When used on lead acid batteries it actually can improve their performance and capacity and even recover some dead ones. If tuned correctly it will charge at an efficiency of 95+% and power the fan at around 20% efficiency. That is a coefficient of performance of greater than one. Some call that overunity.

You can learn much be reading this thread or by going to Imhoteps forum where I am a moderator.

Imhotep's Lab Interactive FAQ - Index page
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  #1090 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2012, 05:31 PM
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WFTL WFTL is offline
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Smile Fan link

Greetings to all,

I am a newbie on this forum and enjoy the many topics being discussed although not real knowledgeable on electronics or magnetism. Not quite sure yet how to post to any particular post I've read as I am stumbling through all the protocol that is setup by the administrators of this site. I am in the process of building my first Bedini SSG unit. Been on YouTube to watch the many people who have built such units and I am anxious to get my first build going! I find that in my retirement there are many things that keep me busy and oft times my experiment gets set aside because of what I call a matter that has more importance, ie plumbing failures, electrical failures, etc. Little emergencies? I think I am working harder in my retirement than I did whilst being the laborer that I was in the working world.
Questions that have popped up in my mind about certain projects especially IMHOTEP's fan motor I need answers to. Can anyone tell me how one distinguishes whether or not a computer fan can be taken apart or not before one invests the capitol to do so? I went to the website (newegg.com), "theremarts" link, and ordered three fans. Receiving it in short time, I went to take one of the fans apart and could only get the retaining clip off and the fan blade. The unit with the coils would not come out and I think it is constructed that way. Anyway, busted up two fans trying to take apart that puppy. I notice that the brand name on IMHOTEP's fan was Jamicon but the fans I received from"theremart's" link to newegg are Masscool. So when I buy another fan, what brand name do I ask for so I can get one that can be fully disassembled as in IMHOTEP's experiment/instructions? I would appreciate some help brothers. Are the fans I bought so cheaply constructed that they are made disposable and non workable? Made in China vs made in Japan, does that make a difference? Thanks in advance for your help. Love reading all the posts even though some are way over my head,

WFTL
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  #1091 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2012, 01:09 PM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFTL View Post
Are the fans I bought so cheaply constructed that they are made disposable and non workable?
yes


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Originally Posted by WFTL View Post
Made in China vs made in Japan, does that make a difference?
No

They are all much the same, you will have to cut off some of the plastic on the center mounting to allow the coils to come off. The plastic is swaged over to prevent the coils coming off, its a simple task with a dremmel.
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  #1092 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2012, 06:21 PM
harctan harctan is offline
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I tried making this today. The stator of my fan motor is glued very tightly and the wire on the coils is too thin for me to use comfortably. So I broke loose the circuit board and removed the original wiring and replaced it with a bigger one of 0.4mm thickness (that's what I had lying around) at 25 turns for each coil. I used two adjacent coils as trigger and the other two as power coils. I used a single piece of wire for the trigger coils and wound the first cw and the second ccw. Same thing for the power coils. So it is like this: coil 1 trigger cw, coil 2 trigger ccw, coil 3 power cw, coil 4 power ccw. I used a 9v battery but didn't work. I tried all possible connection configurations. Then I tested to see if the induced current from the trigger coils (spinning the fan by hand) would open the transistor. It didn't. I rewired the trigger coils so they were both cw but still couldn't open the transistor. Obviously this won't work if the transistor doesn't get activated. So do I need more turns of a thinner gauge wire? If so what thickness could I use so I can wind it comfortably? Also is my wiring correct or do I need to change it?
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  #1093 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2012, 09:15 PM
Joit Joit is offline
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Do you have another fan by any chance?
To remove the Stator is actually simple, when you have an from a Pc Power supply. When you remove the fan, in the middle something like a splint, take a screwdriver and hit it out. This thing holds the stator actually.
Free Energy At Last Step By Step Must See
Your coils usual should work, even when something about 10 ohm resistance should on one coil.
Connect the outer wire from pin 1 to the inner wire (start) from coil2,
then you have them in serie.
Same for coil 3 and 4. Most Fans run with 2 Coils in serie, that the trigger point is between 2 coils. Then you got at 180° 2 coils for trigger and 2 as drive coils.

Last edited by Joit : 07-16-2012 at 09:17 PM.
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  #1094 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2012, 09:04 AM
harctan harctan is offline
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I did try to remove the stator with a screwdriver but the only thing I managed was to leave dents on the bearings. Perhaps in a different motor it would be easier. I found a thinner wire from a little tranformer (guessing about 0.3mm) and tried it for the trigger coils. I got about 50 turns on each but again I couldn't get the transistor to open. I'm guessing that unless enough induced current passes through the base of the transistor this is doomed to fail. Am I wrong about that? I'm sure I saw someone who replaced the original wires with thicker ones like I did but can't remember where I saw that. I would use the original wires but they are just too thin for my clumsy fingers. If someome has managed this successfully your input would be appreciated.
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  #1095 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2012, 12:00 PM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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The best way to wind it is bifilar, that is both the power and trigger coils are wound at the same time. So with two wires at the same time wind the posts CW CCW CW CCW.
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  #1096 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2012, 12:04 PM
harctan harctan is offline
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I was thinking about trying that. Also do you have any experience with the thicker wires that i used? Do you think they will suffice?
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  #1097 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2012, 02:42 PM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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I usually use #27 wire when I rewind and it works fine although its is higher power and better for motorcycle batteries you may begin to burn out your pots. I use a 5 watt wire wound pot now
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  #1098 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2012, 09:59 AM
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diScoVerY_01 diScoVerY_01 is offline
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can i replace the neon bulb?
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  #1099 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2012, 02:44 PM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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The neon is a safety device to prevent the transistor from getting damaged, It is not needed if you always have a battery on the output. It will only light up with no battery connected to the output.
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  #1100 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2012, 04:52 PM
Khwartz Khwartz is offline
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For none computer fans...

Hi, mbrownn! Nice to read your messages here again while I'm coming around, and seeing you have very worked out the subject and get on routine

I would like to ask you something: do you thing we could transform this kind of big electric fans to charge batteries continuously like you do with computer fans? and if yes, how?

Electric Fan : Cebu Appliance Center, Selling appliances and a LOT of other things since 1977.

Cheer, Khwartz.
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  #1101 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2012, 05:37 PM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khwartz View Post
Hi, mbrownn! Nice to read your messages here again while I'm coming around, and seeing you have very worked out the subject and get on routine

I would like to ask you something: do you thing we could transform this kind of big electric fans to charge batteries continuously like you do with computer fans? and if yes, how?

Electric Fan : Cebu Appliance Center, Selling appliances and a LOT of other things since 1977.

Cheer, Khwartz.
These motors would not work as standard and would need a lot of modification but Im working on a motor that could do that
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  #1102 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2012, 07:11 PM
Khwartz Khwartz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrownn View Post
These motors would not work as standard and would need a lot of modification but Im working on a motor that could do that
Ok, great, just let me know about the motor you're working on when ready

But about these classic big fans, what kind of modifications would be needed?

Where I go, people can't have many supplies and I would like to do with what they have already. Even to find wire coper, electronics, is not easy. So, all would be on modifying but with using the parts only of the fan itself! big deal, isn't it? But really, people are too poor where I go to do an other way :/
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  #1103 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2012, 03:13 AM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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The device I am working on is the Lockridge device.

These fans use a single phase AC induction motor, what we need for a Bedini circuit is bifilar wound coils or at least coils that have a transformer action between them and a rotor that has magnets. I did try putting magnets on the rotor of one of these fans and rewound the coils but the magnetic cogging was too great for it to run well with voltages suitable for transistors.

What you would need to do is wind four bifilar coils on the stator in just the way the computer fan is configured, then replace the rotor with one that has four magnets going north south as you go round. Ceramic magnets would be better as the neo magnets I used were too strong

These Bedini energizers have low mechanical efficiency so the fan would not be very powerful, probably only a fifth of the power of the induction motor.

An easier way to do it is build the SSG with the bicycle wheel but with multiple coils.
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  #1104 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2012, 08:23 PM
Khwartz Khwartz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrownn View Post
The device I am working on is the Lockridge device.
OK, Thanks for specifying, Mike. Could you propose me links which could give me the state of the art of this device?

Quote:
These fans use a single phase AC induction motor, what we need for a Bedini circuit is bifilar wound coils
Do you mean a pair wires wound in parallel around the same core? And if yes, with or without one extremity in common?

Quote:
or at least coils that have a transformer action between them
Like tow separated coils wound one on the other; one right on the core and the other wound on the other one? Or one coil on the half length of the core and the other on the other half length?

Quote:
and a rotor that has magnets.
Ok.

Quote:
I did try putting magnets on the rotor of one of these fans and rewound the coils but the magnetic cogging was too great for it to run well with voltages suitable for transistors.
About transistors: is that a complete obligation to use any? Do you think we can maintain the charge of a battery while making turn the fan but without electronic, like using at maximum electromechanisms?

Quote:
What you would need to do is wind four bifilar coils on the stator in just the way the computer fan is configured, then replace the rotor with one that has four magnets going north south as you go round. Ceramic magnets would be better as the neo magnets I used were too strong
Very nice that you saw that and share to me, Mike, I could win time and money without going on a noway path...

Quote:
These Bedini energizers have low mechanical efficiency so the fan would not be very powerful, probably only a fifth of the power of the induction motor.
Unless they could run indefinitely while connected to the battery, I would be very satisfy.

Quote:
An easier way to do it is build the SSG with the bicycle wheel but with multiple coils.
Yes, could be good idea cause I should be able to salvage few bicycles and that is cheap stuff.

But magnets would be still my problem. At least, with an alternator connected to a bicycle I could run it without any magnet inside, just having the battery to start it. But the problem is that for now, I don't know how to make it self-sustainable :/ Would You have an idea?

Cheer, Khwartz.
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  #1105 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2012, 12:50 PM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khwartz View Post
OK, Thanks for specifying, Mike. Could you propose me links which could give me the state of the art of this device?
Just read all threads started by me plus the lockridge thread and this will bring you up to speed with where we are at. There is no state of the art device as none of us has succeeded in getting it working yet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Khwartz View Post
Do you mean a pair wires wound in parallel around the same core? And if yes, with or without one extremity in common?
Yes, none of the connections are common.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Khwartz View Post
About transistors: is that a complete obligation to use any? Do you think we can maintain the charge of a battery while making turn the fan but without electronic, like using at maximum electromechanisms?
You need a switch be it electronic or mechanical on bedini type machines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khwartz View Post
But magnets would be still my problem. At least, with an alternator connected to a bicycle I could run it without any magnet inside, just having the battery to start it. But the problem is that for now, I don't know how to make it self-sustainable :/ Would You have an idea?

Cheer, Khwartz.
I have Ideas on how to do it but haven't been able to do it yet. If you read all the threads started by me, plus the Lockridge thread you will see most of my Ideas.
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  #1106 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2012, 07:57 PM
Khwartz Khwartz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrownn View Post
Just read all threads started by me plus the lockridge thread and this will bring you up to speed with where we are at.
Thanks.

Quote:
There is no state of the art device as none of us has succeeded in getting it working yet.
Ok.

Quote:
Yes, none of the connections are common.
Thanks for specifying.

Quote:
You need a switch be it electronic or mechanical on bedini type machines
I see.
Could you send me to good web materials about Bedini systems and the SSG; things that you have used and tested yourself and produce actual self-sustaining, even with batteries which don't diminish their charge even under load of the device?

Quote:
I have Ideas on how to do it but haven't been able to do it yet. If you read all the threads started by me, plus the Lockridge thread you will see most of my Ideas.
Ok, great! Thanks, Mike.
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  #1107 (permalink)  
Old 07-25-2012, 02:59 PM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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I have not been able to make a self sustaining device yet because the energy comes out in different forms ie torque, heat and electrical and the conversion losses have been to great. All batteries diminish under load but under certain conditions their charge and discharge rates can be anomalous and work in our favor.

Here is a good site for Bedini info Schematics Illustrated
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  #1108 (permalink)  
Old 07-25-2012, 07:39 PM
Khwartz Khwartz is offline
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Great stuff! in these pages, very thanks Mike

So you said you have nerver acheived until now true selfsustaining device, so i'm surprise of all these claims around, cause if it really works, I'm sure you would have make it run too!

So, why in this page you sent me too, we find a draw with "sefl runner":

Bedini-Tesla-Gray Home-Power
Posted: June 23rd 2008

Image 13a


Does it mean that all these guys blind themselves on the false results they could have, and don't want to face in what they fail to achieve self-running?

What do you think? What do you think it's going on around?

Cheer, Khwartz.
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:17 AM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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I wonder when people post "self runner", should they follow it up with a question mark or exclamation mark?

John Bedini's ferris wheel is self running but I haven't achieved it yet, maybe one day, and I am sure others have done it too but I have come to the conclusion it isn't going to be as simple as building the Bedini fan.

The self sustaining motors of the past have been Edwin Gray's, Tesla's and The Lockridge device amongst others. I believe all these had the same principals built into them although each was different. This is the direction I am going.

As I said the "overunity" effects in lead acid batteries are known and the best way to exploit this may be the Tesla switch. Overunity is common place in the real world, just look at air-conditioning units but I have never seen a self running air conditioning unit.

I truly believe it is possible and is only a matter of time before we have them. I don't believe these people are blinding themselves, I believe they are pointing the way.

Taking it from where we are now, why is there no interest in building air conditioning units on an industrial scale that power heat engines such as the sterling to generate power. The answer is cost, such a device would be very big when compared to the amount of excess power they produce and it is easier to dig coal out of the ground than spend money.

Stirling engines could also be used to increase the lowly efficiency of 27% of most power stations to close to 100% but that hasn't been done either.

When we have a device that is so blindingly obvious and cheap, it will happen.

So what about Bedini's circuit? Its a learning tool to show you that there are many more things going on in the system than you are told about.
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  #1110 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2012, 08:37 PM
Khwartz Khwartz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrownn View Post
I wonder when people post "self runner", should they follow it up with a question mark or exclamation mark?
Yeah, I see your point, but for now, I'm convinced that most of these guys blind themselves cause nothing is clear and by trying it we could meet the weakness of the devices by not reproducing the points that make the device overunity like.

Quote:
John Bedini's ferris wheel is self running but I haven't achieved it yet, maybe one day, and I am sure others have done it too
How can you be sure of something you haven't test yourself?! :/

Quote:
but I have come to the conclusion it isn't going to be as simple as building the Bedini fan.
Could be, but for me the strange thing, makes me thing there are lies around, it's that when we look and read at what they said, it looks rather simple, while indeed, no effective replications are made. I'm part of tow forums on free energy and despite of all clains since years and very motivated replicators, nothing occurs to be replicate-able after the claims of the first one.

Quote:
The self sustaining motors of the past have been Edwin Gray's, Tesla's and The Lockridge device amongst others.
For me, none of them has been able to prove honest results, I mean "infakable" devices and indisputable devices.

Quote:
I believe all these had the same principals built into them although each was different. This is the direction I am going.
I understand the way you think, and if there were good stuff around, I think it's the right way to do: see what all these experiments could have in common.

For me, I'm convinced there are 6 main points:

1. Pumping by high very short picks of voltage;

2. Conversion of cheap VAR in active power by capacitors, coils and batteries or other equivalent reversal receptors-generators;

3. Conversion of very cheap and easy to get energy in more on demand energies;

4. Superconductance like by resonating in conductors;

5. Back-EFM and use of general pendulum reactions;

6. Coupling with existent fields; like Earth fields or other permanent or permanent like fields like magnets.

Quote:
As I said the "overunity" effects in lead acid batteries are known and the best way to exploit this may be the Tesla switch.
You mean using spark-gapes or fast rotating switches to create very short on and off to create picks by coupling with coils or even capacitors?

Quote:
Overunity is common place in the real world, just look at air-conditioning units
For sure! I'm trained in engineering about all that stuff, and yes, overunity is common in the real world, even "infinite" overunity, like for wind-turbine or solar panels.

But the problem is not the overunity itself but the overunity in what I call mono-energy kind, conversions-like from electromagnetic energy to electromagnetic energy, or gravity to mechanical power, or caloric to caloric.

Heat pumps are true converters from electrical energy to caloric energy. We could say too from mechanical energy to caloric energy because the electricity is used to run a compressor which is in essence a mechanical device.

The COP (Coefficient Of Performance) just rate the "on-demand" energy (heat) under costly energy, even not caring about the caloric energy taken in in-put.

Yes, indeed: a heat pump has a poor "physical efficiency", if we compare the global demanded energy obtained in out-put to the global energy taken in in-put.

In in-put of the heat pump we have the calories of the outside which are pumped to be put in the "inside" (home, etc.), say C1, and the calories at the out-put, say C2.

One could very easy not notice that C2 > C1 in any case!

More than this: we have to add the electrical energy in in-put E1.

A part of this in-put energy is added to the output in form of caloric energy, but there are loses too. Say E2 the added energy.

At the end we have an "physical efficiency" of (C2+E2)/(C1+E1), with C2 < C1 and E2 < E1, so the efficiency is necessarily < 1 ("underunity), while for the COP it is only (C2+E2)/E1...

So, what we want is a cheap clean renewable energy in input and the demanded energy in output.

Note: I've written "physical efficiency" in quotes because the true physical efficiency is said always "unity", so equal to 1 while we compare ALL the input and ALL the output and that we consider that no energy can be created or lost.

Quote:
but I have never seen a self running air conditioning unit.
Of course! and I have just explained the reason

Quote:
I truly believe it is possible and is only a matter of time before we have them.
But "what"? the "mono-" or "uni-" converters I was talking about?

I think myself "yes" in EM/EM conversion, it has indeed theoretical reasons to believe it could happen and has happened already.

But it does need to consider the SPACE in-between the particles not as empty but as full of thinner energy; rather like turbulent winds in-between wind-turbines, or sea-waves in waves-generators. What Dirac named "plenum" instead of "vacuum", for very pertinent theoretical reasons.

Quote:
I don't believe these people are blinding themselves, I believe they are pointing the way.
As I've told you before, I rather thinking that most have blind themselves otherwise they would have been able to explain much more clearly why their supposed working devices were working, and replications would have bring near no problem. But yes, for me it doesn't mean they were not in the right path and have not touched pertinent points, enough to look further in their directions.

Quote:
Taking it from where we are now, why is there no interest in building air conditioning units on an industrial scale that power heat engines such as the sterling to generate power.
Your wrong, Mike, it is done and works perfectly.

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The answer is cost, such a device would be very big when compared to the amount of excess power they produce and it is easier to dig coal out of the ground than spend money.
I understand that you could think that but ideas has the capability to reduce time and energy needs.

Here a links to completed functional and affordable devices already on the market (even used to produce electricity in co-gen most often now):

Cleanergy - The world’s leading supplier of Stirling based climate neutral energy solutions

WhisperGenTM heat and power systems

http://www.solarthermalmagazine.com/...nergy-systems/

Quote:
Stirling engines could also be used to increase the lowly efficiency of 27% of most power stations to close to 100% but that hasn't been done either.
No, sorry, the limit, but easily reach now, is 40%, and it's because of the "Stirling cycle" itself, which is much more than inter-combustion motors or solar photovoltaic panel.

Quote:
When we have a device that is so blindingly obvious and cheap, it will happen.
Yeah, the problem is that "cheap device".

Because of the cost of the device, and even of the maintenance of the device, we, professionals in heat pumps and so on engineering, may use different COPs.

One, and I think it's the most important one, is a financial one:

THE FINANCIAL VALUE OF THE ENERGY DEMANDED PRODUCED UNDER: THE COST OF THE ENERGY IN INPUT + COST OF MAINTENANCE + COST OF THE DEVICE DIVIDED BY THE DURATION OF.

So yes, I'm agree with you: to bring real "free energy" means both having free primary energy in input but cheap device too.

Quote:
So what about Bedini's circuit? Its a learning tool to show you that there are many more things going on in the system than you are told about.
Of course, you can say that now after having tried to replicate with not very conclusive results, but it were not the claims of Bedini and the others who claimed effective overunity; right?

-------------

What about this:

Free Energy Magnet Motor (Engine) - YouTube

Do you think that the fields of the magnet could feed the coils well enough and synchronised in their path to do so? Could you test it, as I think you have already all material needed while not me for now?
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