Energetic Forum  
Facebook Twitter Google+ Pinterest LinkedIn Delicious Digg Reddit WordPress StumbleUpon Tumblr Translate Addthis Aaron Murakami YouTube ONLY 13% OF SEATS AVAILABLE!!!*** 2017 ENERGY CONFERENCE ***


* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX


Go Back   Energetic Forum > >
   

Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator
Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #271  
Old 07-20-2016, 06:09 AM
Midaztouch's Avatar
Midaztouch Midaztouch is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Japan for 2yrs
Posts: 546
A1MoGen: 7 phases/7 coils

Dual commutator Tesla motors that used standard OEM brushes, 2 commentator segments = 2 coils energized
It was a very simple process to run the motor in series connection.
Pos to Neg to positive with the terminal cables.

For the A1MoGen, I don't recommend that the coils be run in series the traditional way of positive to neg to positive with the terminal cables...
I have reason to believe that the traditional way may hinder performance or maybe burn out coils.

A better approach is to actually making the coils look more like the three-phase motor's coil phases...
One wire makes two coils 180 from each other. This will allow you to use a thicker gauge wire.
*Important* You can Only use 1/one commutator!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz
__________________
 

Last edited by Midaztouch; 07-22-2016 at 11:39 AM.
Reply With Quote

Download SOLAR SECRETS by Peter Lindemann
Free - Get it now: Solar Secrets

  #272  
Old 07-20-2016, 10:21 PM
Midaztouch's Avatar
Midaztouch Midaztouch is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Japan for 2yrs
Posts: 546
Well, the "Brush" companies can do anything but for the amout of time, money and CAD designs for new brush plates and wider brushes..... It's not worth it for me at this time.


Time for my original plan, first plan, PLAN A!
1.) We will Do everything with the parts that we have already for the P56 frame kit!
2.) We will have over 4000 Rpms @ 36v
3.) we will have superior torque than the OEM



Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

Need a drill or drill press, a commutator pulley & 17awg
__________________
 

Last edited by Midaztouch; 07-22-2016 at 11:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #273  
Old 07-22-2016, 08:19 AM
Midaztouch's Avatar
Midaztouch Midaztouch is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Japan for 2yrs
Posts: 546
My original/1st plan ... Step one ... Brush plate mods!!!

First things first... I am NOT using two/dual commutators ... Just 1/one commutator!


https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=gxh9l6HNIKk


The Imperial kit included 2 brush plates = 8 brushes total

1.) Four brush units will be removed from one brush plate.

2.) The 4 units must be rotated 180 and fastened to the other brush plate with nuts and bolts. All 8 brushes will be on 1 plate!
(I checked the measurements. It fits)

3.) The tension springs must be inverted and rotated.

It's not 7 coils like I need for the full A1MoGen but we do have 3 ~ 4 coils but mainly 3 singular coils energized per pair-inputs...
* 2 brush pair-inputs X 4 phase singular coils(8 coils) = 16 coils max to drive the load! *

Keep it Clean & Green
Midaz

Work with what you have! #itwilldo
__________________
 

Last edited by Midaztouch; 07-22-2016 at 12:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #274  
Old 07-22-2016, 02:45 PM
bistander bistander is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 929
Unbelievable! ! ! !

So after all that, like a couple years of your BS about how great A1MoJo is, you're going to rip off one of his comms and cobble together some monstrosity which has no chance of working even a fraction as well as the OEM version.

Unbelievable! ! ! !
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #275  
Old 07-22-2016, 09:48 PM
Midaztouch's Avatar
Midaztouch Midaztouch is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Japan for 2yrs
Posts: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
So after all that, like a couple years of your BS about how great A1MoJo is, you're going to rip off one of his comms and cobble together some monstrosity which has no chance of working even a fraction as well as the OEM version.

Unbelievable! ! ! !
Dude

It is what it is. Using two/dual comms is very flexible. But...

Do you remember Hunting Ross? He did a single comm design. It's not as flexible as the tesla's dual comm motor but
it does the job/almost the same principles!


Just in case you may have overlooked it
Please read my quote from 2 days ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midaz
A1MoGen: 7 phases/7 coils

Dual commutator Tesla motors that used standard OEM brushes, 2 commentator segments = 2 coils energized
It was a very simple process to run the motor in series connection.
Pos to Neg to positive with the terminal cables.

For the A1MoGen, I don't recommend that the coils be run in series the traditional way of positive to neg to positive with the terminal cables...
I have reason to believe that the traditional way may hinder performance or maybe burn out coils.

A better approach is to actually making the coils look more like the three-phase motor's coil phases...
One wire makes two coils 180 from each other. This will allow you to use a thicker gauge wire.
*Important* You can Only use 1/one commutator!
It's just the way I see it when multiple phases (4) must be energized at once from the same brush!


Keep it Clean & Green
Midaz

Basically, this DIY A1MoGen build = 3~4 overlapping coil phases = max 100 turns of 17 AWG motor!!
Torque!? Not bad, not bad at all!
__________________
 

Last edited by Midaztouch; 07-22-2016 at 11:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #276  
Old 07-23-2016, 06:16 AM
bistander bistander is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 929
I remember H. Ross. From my recollection his motor wasn't much to talk about. Perhaps you can provide the link to something impressive that he did.

So why the about-face on your A1MoJo dual comm "Tesla's gift" super dynamo?

Did those world renowned motor professionals get back to you yet?

bi
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #277  
Old 07-23-2016, 08:06 AM
Midaztouch's Avatar
Midaztouch Midaztouch is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Japan for 2yrs
Posts: 546
A1MoGen has 93% coil usage

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
I remember H. Ross. From my recollection his motor wasn't much to talk about. Perhaps you can provide the link to something impressive that he did.

So why the about-face on your A1MoJo dual comm "Tesla's gift" super dynamo?

Did those world renowned motor professionals get back to you yet?

bi
Dude

Like I wrote before... "Nothing has been a GAME CHANGER so far."
Everyone has done a standard OEM brush setup.

I saw my vision from way back when. The only way to unlock the full potential is with extra and/or wider brushes. The A1MoGen is an alternative that use 26 coils out of 28 possible coils...

Basically, the 28 pole A1MoGen has 210 turns of 19awg passing EVERY pole! That means that EVERY pole, that is directly interacting with the stator magnets, is producing some serious torque!

93% coil usage for the A1MoGen -vs- 28% for past dual/single comms builds! That a 332% differance!!!
The full A1MoGen has more Mojo at one/1 brush set than any past build! Yes, it has real Mojo!

Bistander, if you can, correct me if I'm wrong.

Keep it Clean & Green
Midaz

The A1MoGen is Hot Rodding for Tesla's dual comm Brushed DC Motors! High-performance electric motors for cheap!
__________________
 

Last edited by Midaztouch; 07-24-2016 at 10:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #278  
Old 07-23-2016, 08:46 AM
Midaztouch's Avatar
Midaztouch Midaztouch is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Japan for 2yrs
Posts: 546
Bistander,

Get a grip son! Understand this....

Anything over 48v is an overkill! What you do pay for is amps!

If you dump 400amps into the full version A1MoGen/Jo! Your 0-60mph time will be... WTF!
And stay cooler longer!


Fact: Most people just want to have a good time with electric motors.

Stand Bi and think about that!
__________________
 

Last edited by Midaztouch; 07-24-2016 at 10:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #279  
Old 07-23-2016, 09:45 AM
bistander bistander is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 929
Showtime

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midaztouch View Post

The full A1MoGen has more Mojo at one/1 brush set than any past build! Yes, it has real Mojo!
Then put the thing in your motorbike and show us.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #280  
Old 07-23-2016, 10:26 AM
Midaztouch's Avatar
Midaztouch Midaztouch is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Japan for 2yrs
Posts: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Then put the thing in your motorbike and show us.
Yeah, It is about showtime!

Anyway, back to working with what we have... Yesterday I told you that I'm using one comm and modifying a brush plate. The modified brush set up will energize energize a maximum of 4 coils. To get the maximum benefit of the set up,
each Singular coil phase must be 9 Armature Poles.

Here's the break down with 17agw at one brush-pair
Singular coil phases(180 apart) are winded 9 armature poles

Pole #1 ---> O turns ---> Zero/0 torque
Pole #2 ---> 25 turns ---> start North magnetic... Repulsion mode
Pole #3 ---> 50 T ---> North repulsion
Pole #4 ---> 75 T ---> N. Bisector between poles 4 & 5
Pole #5 ---> 100 T ---> North repulsion
Pole #6 ---> 100 t ---> end North magnet
Pole #7 ---> 100 Turns ---> Zero/0 torque
Pole #8 ---> 100 Turns ---> Zero/0 torque
Pole # 9 ---> 100 t ---> start South magnetic... Attraction mode
Pole #10 ---> 100 t ---> south attract
Pole #11 ---> 75T ---> S. Bisector between poles 11 & 12
Pole #12 ---> 50 T ---> south attract
Pole #13 ---> 25 turns ---> end South magnetic... Attract mode
Pole #14 ---> O turns ---> Zero/0 torque

Basically, when all inputs are used, You have a max of 100 turns of 17AWG motor


Keep it Clean & Green
Midaz
__________________
 

Last edited by Midaztouch; 07-23-2016 at 11:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #281  
Old 07-23-2016, 11:46 AM
Midaztouch's Avatar
Midaztouch Midaztouch is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Japan for 2yrs
Posts: 546
Bi,

Since you know a lot about motors...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bi
I have followed Ufopolitic's thread and I am quite knowledgeable on electric machines.
And you said
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bi
Unbelievable! ! ! !

So after all that, like a couple years of your BS about how great A1MoJo is, you're going to rip off one of his comms and cobble together some monstrosity which has no chance of working even a fraction as well as the OEM version.

Unbelievable! ! ! !
It seem as thou it would be fitting for YOU to explain to everyone on how the OEM is so superior over the A1MoGen!?
Here's you big chance to educate the B.S.ers!

Don't let the crickets drowned your voice out! Because everyone on the forum knows that you know it all.


Waiting for you in detail technical analysis
Midaz
__________________
 

Last edited by Midaztouch; 07-23-2016 at 11:50 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #282  
Old 07-23-2016, 01:37 PM
bistander bistander is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 929
Just do it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midaztouch View Post
*Important* You can Only use 1/one commutator!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midaztouch View Post

My original/1st plan ... Step one ... Brush plate mods!!!

First things first... I am NOT using two/dual commutators ... Just 1/one commutator!
...
The Imperial kit included 2 brush plates = 8 brushes total

1.) Four brush units will be removed from one brush plate.

2.) The 4 units must be rotated 180 and fastened to the other brush plate with nuts and bolts. All 8 brushes will be on 1 plate!
(I checked the measurements. It fits)

3.) The tension springs must be inverted and rotated.

It's not 7 coils like I need for the full A1MoGen but we do have 3 ~ 4 coils but mainly 3 singular coils energized per pair-inputs...
* 2 brush pair-inputs X 4 phase singular coils(8 coils) = 16 coils max to drive the load! *

Keep it Clean & Green
Midaz

Work with what you have! #itwilldo
This is what I found unbelievable. ... you dropping A1MoGo to make a single comm motor with some 8 brush weird wound armature motor. I can't believe you can devise a winding pattern which would increase the coil utilization over that of the OEM verzion which is likely about 85% and only misses coils in the neutral zone (between magnets in essentially zero flux) and undergoing commutation. And I doubt you would be able to fashion a system to position 8 brushes radially around a commutator on a 4 pole machine and successfully commutate.

I don't think you know motor theory and I am not going to attempt to teach you. But I've been watching your posts since your run-in with Ufo on his Asymmetric thread. I just want to see A1MoJo tested on your motorbike.

From Nike: just do it.

bi
__________________
 

Last edited by bistander; 07-23-2016 at 01:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #283  
Old 07-23-2016, 02:22 PM
Midaztouch's Avatar
Midaztouch Midaztouch is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Japan for 2yrs
Posts: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
This is what I found unbelievable. ... you dropping A1MoGo to make a single comm motor with some 8 brush weird wound armature motor. I can't believe you can devise a winding pattern which would increase the coil utilization over that of the OEM verzion which is likely about 85% and only misses coils in the neutral zone (between magnets in essentially zero flux) and undergoing commutation. And I doubt you would be able to fashion a system to position 8 brushes radially around a commutator on a 4 pole machine and successfully commutate.

I don't think you know motor theory and I am not going to attempt to teach you. But I've been watching your posts since your run-in with Ufo on his Asymmetric thread. I just want to see A1MoJo tested on your motorbike.

From Nike: just do it.




bi
Thanks for your detailed technical analysis. It was amazing. It was packed with knowledge I didn't know.
You're great. You opened everyone's eyes...
to the stuff we already knew

Anyway dude, I'm busy... #workingwithwhatihave.

Btw... I wouldnt use a solid block for the brushes! I figured that out along time ago... 2yrs ago!

If your here to help or present new info, that's welcomed. If not, you bore me!

Midaz
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #284  
Old 07-23-2016, 03:36 PM
bistander bistander is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 929
Help?

OK. You don't do much in the way of conventional motor parameter calculation or measurement, so it is difficult for me (or anybody else, I suspect) to follow all the numbers of coil turns and equivalent wire gauge and somehow relate that to machine performance or quality. However I think I detect an error evident in recent posts where you appear to add both turns and wire size which erroneously yields a double benefit. It's like you cannot put electrical components in series and parallel at the same time. Either coils are in parallel and turns don't add, or in series and size doesn't add. You can't have both.

https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/a.../t-129536.html

Here is a link to a forum having a reasonably intelligent discussion concerning motor design constants like kv & kt, and parameters universally used in motor analysis. You'd benefit greatly to learn what they're doing and see how you can apply sensible techniques to your project instead of seemingly pulling numbers and brag out of your butt.

I'm going to leave you alone to play with your special gift from Tesla. I'm sure Nik would be proud of what you've accomplished with it. NOT one joule of work done. I can't wait forever to see you test it. It'd probably fail miserably anyway.

Good bye,

bi
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #285  
Old 07-23-2016, 06:27 PM
Midaztouch's Avatar
Midaztouch Midaztouch is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Japan for 2yrs
Posts: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
OK. You don't do much in the way of conventional motor parameter calculation or measurement, so it is difficult for me (or anybody else, I suspect) to follow all the numbers of coil turns and equivalent wire gauge and somehow relate that to machine performance or quality.
First of all, one speak for yourself! .. turns, wire gauge, torque, rpms, wattage... And... What was the baseline!


Quote:
However I think I detect an error evident in recent posts where you appear to add both turns and wire size which erroneously yields a double benefit. It's like you cannot put electrical components in series and parallel at the same time. Either coils are in parallel and turns don't add, or in series and size doesn't add. You can't have both.
if I have a mistake, post the mistake for everyone to get a better understanding ... Or

Quote:
You'd benefit greatly to learn what they're doing and see how you can apply sensible techniques to your project instead of seemingly pulling numbers and brag out of your butt.
pulling numbers!? I'm Bragging!? What are you talking about!? I checked for mistakes, everything seems to be correct! ...
YOU came here, wrote a a lot & brought NOTHING new to the plate except for YOUR attitude!

Quote:
I'm going to leave you alone to play with your special gift from Tesla. I'm sure Nik would be proud of what you've accomplished with it. NOT one joule of work done. I can't wait forever to see you test it. It'd probably fail miserably anyway.

Good bye,

bi
Since you're having trouble comprehending, I'm happy to leave you with this...
The Tesla dual/2 comm 3 pole motor can only be winded one way! Now expanded to many poles!

for nothing!
1+1=2 ... Not 11


Midaz
having fun working with the parts that I ALREADY have
__________________
 

Last edited by Midaztouch; 07-24-2016 at 10:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #286  
Old 07-24-2016, 10:03 AM
Midaztouch's Avatar
Midaztouch Midaztouch is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Japan for 2yrs
Posts: 546
Well, I wanted to share my plan for the Full Version of the A1MoGen before moving day. Now you know what my vision was, with the singular coils and extra/wider brushes. I was hoping to get modified brushes and brush plates from Imperial, which would have been the easiest way, but it is what it is.

Moving day is next week, flight to Tokyo 2:30 min, train 2hrs then walk 10 mins to the new house. After unpacking, I will have to find a shop that will let me use some tools. I wish I could have built the Full version but I will have to work with what I already have.

For people that have the Imperial frame kit, it has 4 stator magnets. That means that the single commutator design will work just fine, just not as flexible as the dual comms. If you choose this option you can modify your brush plate by putting on the 4 extra brush units. This will give you a max of 8 phase coils(16 coils) to drive the load compared to 8 coils from the past builds.

Living back in Tokyo, all the major electric motor players and events are within a 3hr train ride. I will link up with some players and maybe find a connection to get the brushes I want.

Anyway my fellow nerds, have a wonderful summer. As I always say....
Keep it Clean & Green!

Best of luck
Midaz

Ps. Think of the brushes as "Many Pulsers"(50%) for the Full Version of the A1MoGen.
__________________
 

Last edited by Midaztouch; 07-25-2016 at 12:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #287  
Old 10-06-2016, 08:38 PM
Midaztouch's Avatar
Midaztouch Midaztouch is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Japan for 2yrs
Posts: 546
Potential energy

Potential energy...

In the past, I should have used "potential energy consumption". Key word "consumption"

Increasing the overall "amps" population throughout the complete motor. Maintaining the higher rpm's associated with DC motors while increasing the torque... Without the motor smoking/burning up. Electric drag racing motor for wattage per kg

I thought about how electricity takes the path of least resistance.
1.)one power source
2.) three coils
3.) three magnets strengths(weak, medium, strong)

If one power source is feeding three coils at the same time and each coil has a different magnets/stator pressure(weak,medium and strong)...
Will the magnets effect how the three coils are populated with AMPS or will the AMPS population be the same???

Keep it Clean & Green
Midaz
__________________
 

Last edited by Midaztouch; 10-06-2016 at 08:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
d.i.y, electromagnetic, gift, observation, reactor, teslas, a1mo-gen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Please consider supporting Energetic Forum with a voluntary monthly subscription.

For One-Time Donations, use admin@ this domain > energeticforum.com

Choose your voluntary subscription

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v1.4.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2007-2015 Copyright - Energetic Forum - All Rights Reserved

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator

Tesla Chargers