2020 ENERGY CONFERENCE - PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!!

## 2020 Energy Science & Technology Conference PRE-REGISTER NOW!!! http://energyscienceconference.com

 Energetic Forum Basic Free Energy Device
 Register FAQ Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
 Eric Dollard Magnetizer Products Tesla Chargers 2019 Energy Conference Energy Science Forum Donate Energy Times Advertising

 Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX

#1651
05-30-2017, 06:44 AM
 Mario Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 423
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Turion My problem now is the output of the generator seems to only meet the demand. Connect to a battery, it only outputs 12 volts 2.3 amps. Connect to a 300 watt light, it outputs 60 volts DC at 2.3 amps. 2.4 seems to be max amp output. And Open voltage is 257. I have seen 257 at 2.4 amps when connected to a battery bank, but I did NOT get the speed up under load during that experiment. Still lots of things to figure out. I wish I was an electrical engineer. Of course then I would know this couldn't possibly work so would never have tried it in the first place. oh well.
Hi Dave,

I've seen the same kind of response, I don't mean your cop, but the fact that the higher the impedance/resistance of the load, the higher the output power, while amps don't change much. What changes is the input power.

What I would do to get the full picture of what your machine does I would do the following, although I'm sure you've done it already.

Use FWBR+big enough CAP on output. This makes out power easier to measure. The best load for this test of course would be a high power variable resistor, but different fixed resistors or lamps on a switchbox will work too.

The idea is to make a graph with the IN/OUT power curves at different load resistances along with RPMS.

OUT power curve will go from lowest (shorted coil or lowest resistance) to highest, then lower again (towards infinite resistance load)

IN power curve will go from lowest (acceleration under shorted output), up to a MAX, then down again to the point of highest or infinite resistance, basically an open coil condition.

Once the graph is made you should be able to find the point where the COP is highest by comparing IN versus OUT curve, sort of a bell curve.

Say you find that you get the highest COP when a given load resistance gives you 150 VDC on your cap. If your final desired load is a battery bank you could then put them in series to match the desired output voltage of aprox 150 V.
Or you could use a high efficiency DC-DC converter with adjustable output for a desired load, be it a battery bank or something else, and load it in order to have the input of the converter (or gen output cap) set at aprox. 150 V.

Just some ideas...

cheers,
Mario
__________________

Last edited by Mario; 05-30-2017 at 07:23 AM.
 Download SOLAR SECRETS by Peter Lindemann Free - Get it now: Solar Secrets
#1652
05-30-2017, 05:44 PM
 Turion Gold Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,431
Thoughts

I have a light board that holds eighteen 300 watt bulbs with switches for each. AC switches don't work so well for 257 volts of D.C. Though!! Boom! They can be wired in series or parallel. I have been experimenting with that. When I connect one 300 watt bulb to a pair of coils, they light up, but the machine does not speed up under load. It doesn't speed up with two connected in parallel. It DOES speed up with three connected in parallel, but the light is so dim with 3 bulbs (900 watts of load) that you can't even tell they are on. I haven't measured the voltage output with that configuration. I guess I should. So I have lots of things to try to prove the output.

For me, the proof of success is in the data, and until I have voltage and amperage output UNDER LOAD to compare to input voltage and amperage, I won't be inviting anyone to replicate this machine as it is just too expensive. Right now I'm not entirely sure how much of the 257 open volts DC is REAL, as I haven't found a load that will use that much voltage.

Dave
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda

Last edited by Turion; 05-30-2017 at 07:10 PM.
#1653
06-21-2017, 12:25 AM
 sprocket Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 205
Turion, kudos to you on your (aborted) attempt to get the folks at Project Avalon to think outside the box. Unfortunately, they've got this 'mutual mastrubation' thing going on there, where they are nearly all of the one opinion. Anyone that dares to stray too far from that deemed acceptable, find themselves 'Retired' by its Admin in short order - something that happens on an all too regular basis! Their Members-only setup means that with this kind of intellectual inbreeding, things can only get worse there! The fact that not one of them seemed aware of your presence on all the major FE forums and the work you've done over the years, pretty much sums them up.

For my part, about 8 years ago, I stumbled across the same capacitor experiment you posted about, and resolved to see how far I could take it. I decided to go the super-cap route, tie them together with latching relays, whose switching would be done by a PIC. I also wondered if the 'equalised' capacitors could then be connected in series via the relays/pic, thus restoring the original voltage and extend things at least one 'equalisation' longer. All came to naught however - the \$200 worth of caps I bought turned out to be garbage, leading me to abandon the project.

But your PA thread got me thinking about something similar someone posted in this very forum about 1-2 years ago. It had to do with the fact that 2 capacitors, charged to the same voltage and connected in series -++- will have zero volts across the 2 negative leads. He then went on to say "but did you know..." - what exactly I cannot recall!! - but thought at the time "Wow, now that's cool, I didn't know that!", so immediately tested if it was true. It wasn't, or at least it didn't do what he claimed it did. Anyway, your PA posts got me thinking about this again, so I spent about an hour searching for it in the forum yersterday, in vain as it happens. Just wondering if anyone knows what thread this was posted in here?
__________________

#1654
06-21-2017, 01:15 AM
 j dove Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 51
info for sprocket

Quote:
 Originally Posted by sprocket Turion, kudos to you on your (aborted) attempt to get the folks at Project Avalon to think outside the box. Unfortunately, they've got this 'mutual mastrubation' thing going on there, where they are nearly all of the one opinion. Anyone that dares to stray too far from that deemed acceptable, find themselves 'Retired' by its Admin in short order - something that happens on an all too regular basis! Their Members-only setup means that with this kind of intellectual inbreeding, things can only get worse there! The fact that not one of them seemed aware of your presence on all the major FE forums and the work you've done over the years, pretty much sums them up. For my part, about 8 years ago, I stumbled across the same capacitor experiment you posted about, and resolved to see how far I could take it. I decided to go the super-cap route, tie them together with latching relays, whose switching would be done by a PIC. I also wondered if the 'equalised' capacitors could then be connected in series via the relays/pic, thus restoring the original voltage and extend things at least one 'equalisation' longer. All came to naught however - the \$200 worth of caps I bought turned out to be garbage, leading me to abandon the project. But your PA thread got me thinking about something similar someone posted in this very forum about 1-2 years ago. It had to do with the fact that 2 capacitors, charged to the same voltage and connected in series -++- will have zero volts across the 2 negative leads. He then went on to say "but did you know..." - what exactly I cannot recall!! - but thought at the time "Wow, now that's cool, I didn't know that!", so immediately tested if it was true. It wasn't, or at least it didn't do what he claimed it did. Anyway, your PA posts got me thinking about this again, so I spent about an hour searching for it in the forum yersterday, in vain as it happens. Just wondering if anyone knows what thread this was posted in here?
Hi Sprocket,

Was reading your post and I remember seeing that also. It on the Garry Stanley pulse motor thread. It was posted by Garry Stanley. Also on the dual oscillator Light using three battiers thread. Post #12. Hope that helps you out.

Jeff
__________________

Last edited by j dove; 06-21-2017 at 01:19 AM. Reason: update info
#1655
06-21-2017, 03:51 AM
 SkyWatcher Gold Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,395
Hi all, Hi sprocket, maybe this is what you are remembering.

"You all seem to still be looking for output either from this or using this as a drive unit so perhaps you can understand it using batteries ...take 2 1.5 volt penlight cells or whatever you have and place them in series ... this will show you 3 volts on your meter check each one to make sure its 1.5 and then put them back together with the 2 + heads touching and measure across the - ends and you get nothing yet both batteries still retain their 1.5 volts ...an interesting thing happens if you then add a third battery to this line ...no matter which way round you add it you still get 1.5 volts because you have now unbalanced the original 2 batteries...
this leads to something you might want to give a go and that is when charging batteries always start with 0 volts ...you do this by ...if you are using 3 x 12 volt cells ...you get another 3 and place them in the line but backwards so you have +-+-+--+-+-+ totaling to 0 volts this means every single volt you produce from your charging device in either direction is more than your battery pack has and therefore is collected as charge eg you now only need 1 volt to have enough to charge a 36 volt pack.
Put meters on both sets when charging and you will always see one set start to rise even with the smallest amount of output.
Hope this helps some of you.
Garry "
peace love light
__________________

#1656
06-21-2017, 11:25 PM
 sprocket Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 205
j_dove, SkyWatcher, thanks, that's the one! The thing I found with this is that while one battery set will take a charge, it will be at the expense of the other set, which will be discharged by an equal amount. I was testing with electrolytic caps, but I think batteries should be the same. Pity, I was hoping to have my cake & eat it! Thanks again for lifting the veil, I really should bookmark things of interest more often!
__________________

#1657
06-22-2017, 09:57 PM
 j dove Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 51
Quote:
 Originally Posted by sprocket j_dove, SkyWatcher, thanks, that's the one! The thing I found with this is that while one battery set will take a charge, it will be at the expense of the other set, which will be discharged by an equal amount. I was testing with electrolytic caps, but I think batteries should be the same. Pity, I was hoping to have my cake & eat it! Thanks again for lifting the veil, I really should bookmark things of interest more often!
Hi Sprocket,

I tested it also but on batteries and it is just as you said.

Jeff
__________________

Last edited by j dove; 06-22-2017 at 10:00 PM.
#1658
06-23-2017, 12:24 AM
 sprocket Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 205
Quote:
 Originally Posted by j dove Hi Sprocket, I tested it also but on batteries and it is just as you said. Jeff
Good to know. The only thing I found interesting while playing with this idea was that the charging capacitor would charge to a much higher voltage than I would have anticipated - and if memory serves, doubling its voltage would quadruple the energy stored in it. Don't recall if I was managing a double - or even what my charge-voltage was! - but for what turned out to be a non-event, I found it marginally interesting.
__________________

#1659
07-10-2017, 03:50 PM
 jim glinski Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 98
6 volt ves 12 volt

Turion
Some time back I texted you concerning what might be the way for me to set up a system and at the time you recommend I use three six volt large golf cart batteries .hers my question why the six volt vers the twelve volts that you all are researching with ?? What's the reason or difference in use here ?? Large I understand but voltage not so much ? I'm looking for batteries now and as they are one of the pillars of the concept I would like to get it close to right .thinks for your input Jim .
__________________

#1660
07-10-2017, 08:59 PM
 Turion Gold Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,431
jim,

Cost is only one reason I mentioned getting three 6 volt golf cart batteries. Using a DC to DC voltage controller, you can up the voltage if you want to. (although you don't need it because the modified Matt motor will run on 6 volts, slowly, but it will run. GOOD 6 volt deep cycle batteries are upwards of \$100 each, so three of them will set you back a chunk, and you are FAR better off getting the 6 volt deep cycle golf cart batteries because of the QUALITY. They are made for this stuff. They are meant to be charged and recharged and charged and recharged. And when you put two in series you have 12 volts, so later on they are still completely practical if you move up to 12 volt potentials and can afford more batteries. I have over \$2,000 invested in batteries and all the success I have had has been with the deep cycle 6 volt golf cart batteries. So I feel confident recommending them where I have NO experience with the other. I have used a TON of 12 volt auto batteries and garden batteries (250 amp hour) and they just do not perform like I want a battery to perform with this stuff.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda
#1661
07-10-2017, 10:42 PM
 jim glinski Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 98
Thanks turiun good point
Was thinking along the same line but needed a second witness .I have a source for used six volt golf cart bats .and was going to try a little desulfation on them .knowing there are several ways to go with this system .has anyone done a PDF .on the general over lay yet ? Or something like that ? . now another question ..given a tuned setup and a full charge on the two series batts .about how many times do you think you might be able to recycle that first charge ..before needing to refresh them .this idea of optimizing the energy is great .can be worked on adjusting for max effective outcome as a on going project . I know this is a lot of speculation im sorry I just get excited thinking about the possibilities . could you see what this might mean for electric bikes ??? Extended range .using lithium !! Jim
__________________

#1662
07-11-2017, 04:49 PM
 jim glinski Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 98
Turion

Turion where would you put an inverter in the system to run something small like a 60 watt refrigerator ? Thanks Jim
__________________

#1663
07-11-2017, 09:22 PM
 Turion Gold Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,431

Run it between the primary battery bank and the secondary battery bank. Once the secondary batteries are charged up, run off them, or switch the batteries around. Remember, you can't exceed the C-20 discharge rate for your batteries, so make sure you have enough in parallel to support a 60 watt load.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda
#1664
07-12-2017, 04:50 PM
 jim glinski Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 98
Turion

Thank you for your reply .what ever happened to Matt ? Long time no hear .he farms doesn't he .might be the busy season for him .
__________________

#1665
07-12-2017, 07:20 PM
 Turion Gold Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,431
Matt

I have no idea what is going on with Matt. I have called and left messages, sent e-mails. No response. Kinda worried, but I did see he made a post on one of the threads a few weeks back, so I assume he is alive and kicking. He may be just tied up with the farm until winter. Time will tell I guess.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda

Last edited by Turion; 07-18-2017 at 06:03 AM.
#1666
07-20-2017, 02:55 AM
 Turion Gold Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,431
Update

I FINALLY tested the new coil today. It solved all the issues I was having and still retained the benefits of speeding up under load and reducing the amp draw under load. So no self induction of the coils (Lenz) to impede the motor and no magnetic drag of the iron cores to impede the motor. The motor HAULS ASS.

I typed out a long sob story of what I have been through to get to where I am now, but that stuff doesn't mean anything to anybody but my wife and I, so I will save it for the book they write about my life when I become famous.

This works guys. It just plain works. 257 volts at 2.4 amps per coil pair. Six coil pair. It runs on just under 800 watts right now, which will be reduced when I make my next bunch of modifications. How much, I have no idea. But with the 3 battery circuit I can recover better than 80% of the input power, which gives me a COP>22 or MORE right NOW. Who knows what it will be when I make the changes. I hope it is better, but I intend to go to smaller magnets, so the output may go down.

I'm going to have to wind all new coils for my big machine, but that's ok.

So who has money to buy this thing? Matt needs to retire from farming. My wife needs to retire too. Come on, cough it up. For 10 or 20 million the secret to free energy can be yours. With a discount coupon its only 19.95

Dave
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda
#1667
07-20-2017, 07:02 PM
 Mario Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 423
Hi Dave,

Quote:
 I FINALLY tested the new coil today. It solved all the issues I was having and still retained the benefits of speeding up under load and reducing the amp draw under load. So no self induction of the coils (Lenz) to impede the motor and no magnetic drag of the iron cores to impede the motor. The motor HAULS ASS.
does this mean the motor runs at the same speed and consumption regardless wether there's a coil in front of the magnet or not? If yes great job!

cheers,
Mario
__________________

#1668
07-21-2017, 04:18 AM
 Turion Gold Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,431
Testing

Mario,

I am still testing. The voltage difference between what I was getting with the other coil and this one is significant. A coil pair connected to a single 300 watt bulb is only showing 36 volts AC at 4.5 amps. Not anywhere NEAR the 257 volts I was getting with my last coil. I still have a ton of experimenting to do. In answer to your most IMPORTANT question, the motor doesn't really "see" if the coil is there or not, whether or not it is under load. There is the slightest bit of magnetic attraction to the iron core but 99% of that is eliminated.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda
#1669
07-21-2017, 10:58 AM
 Mario Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 423
Well, that sounds great. Since you said you wanted to try bifilar coils I guess that's what you changed. Is this in the normal sense? I mean winding two strands simultaneously, then connect them in series (end of one goes to the start of the other). I ask because I did tests on a G-field machine I built like 8 years ago, but I couldn't see a real difference between normal and bifilar…

Wonder how you eliminated magnetic core drag, well but I don't have 10-20 millions, so….

cheers,
Mario
__________________

#1670
07-21-2017, 11:35 AM
 Mario Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 423
… Then again.. I suppose you're using something like 5 or 7 magnets on the rotor and you have 6 coil pair positions, anyway a precessional setup.

I think we already talked a bout this, but from what I had seen on my precessional setups, even though getting rid of the big startup magnetic lock, once up to speed there wasn't any gain or difference in speed versus a normal setup. The cogging force is evenly and smoothly distributed thanks to the odd/even setup, but it still causes some drag. But maybe you're doing something different?

cheers,
Mario
__________________

#1671
07-21-2017, 04:16 PM
 Turion Gold Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,431
Mario,
You wound bifilar coils, then connected them in series and it made no difference? Interesting.

Yes, that is EXACTLY what I did. I wound with 12 strands because multiples of 12 give you the most options. A lot of numbers divide evenly into 12, so lots of possible combinations of wires. 24 strands is also divisible by 12, and 60 strands is best because it is also divisible by 5 and 10, so you REALLY get more options. Connecting strands in series increases the voltage, but more strands left in parallel increases the amperage. So you can seriously adjust the output of your coil. And remember, you do NOT have to do the same thing with all the strands. For instance, if I have just six strands, I can put four in series to increase voltage and leave the other two in parallel to increase the amps. Mix and match to get the most desirable output up to the limit of what the coil is capable of producing.

EDIT: Bi and Citfta were kind enough to alert me to the fact that my statement above is incorrect and that incorrect combinations can cause the shorter lengths to load down the longer lengths. I want to see that happen, so I am going to play with it anyway, but no reason for others to go down the rabbit hole with me. Bi was kind enough to send me a chart of the combos that WILL work with six wires
S is for Series and P is for Parallel
1S6P So if you have only ONE wire in series, obviously all 6 are in Parallel. When I first looked at the chart, it made no sense to me. But now I get it. Weak mind!
6S1P
3S2P
2S3P

See, if you had 12 strands you would get
1S12P
12P1S
2P6S
6S2P
3S4P
4S3P
MORE possible combinations.

As to the rotor, my big machine has a rotor with six big neos on it. There are six coils on each side of the rotor. The motors I am using were not capable of breaking that magnetic lock to even start the machine, and I spent nearly a YEAR trying different things to deal with that problem. Matt designed a board to basically run the thing as a motor until it was up to speed, and then switch over. That worked great until I threw switches at the wrong time and burnt up about \$159 worth of parts. I Also had a really NICE switch that allowed me to change between 36, 24 or 12 volts as the motor supply from the batteries, but I burnt up one of those too. That magnetic drag pulled too many amps through the 30 amp switch. To physically rotate the rotor 1/6 of its rotation, where it would lock up again, I had to put a two foot breaker bar at each end of the machine and give it everything I had. And even once I got it rotating I could only run it long enough to measure outputs because the magnetic drag was causing the motor to draw more than 60 amps. I smoked a few motors.

What I came to realize is that speeding up under load is just NOT enough. You HAVE to significantly reduce or eliminate that magnetic drag. Different core material like ferrite or metglass might be best, but ferrite is expensive, and I would need large custom cores. When I am done with everything else, I will try it. Metglass is directional, and harder than heck to work with. The edges are like razors and will cut you to pieces. I wound one core so Citfta could do some testing and it was covered in blood. It comes in a roll 6 inches wide and would have to be cut into strips and rolled up. I have an entire roll of that... about enough to make cores for ONE machine. I will test that also when I am done with everything else.

Reducing or eliminating the magnetic drag is what I spent the LAST year working on, and I am not done yet. I know HOW to do it, and have reduced it enough to get everything to work, proving my theory correct, but I know I can do better. The issue is, I basically have to rebuild the machine from scratch every time I make a change to improve it. I went through four different designs before I found one that would handle the magnetic forces that want to flex either the rotor to hit the coils or the coil holders to hit the rotor. I went through a DOZEN rotors, having the holes that hold the magnets reduced by hundredths of a milimeter each time but magnets kept getting "sucked" out of the rotor by the magnetic attraction. And when a magnet hits that iron core at several thousand RPM, you better be wearing a flack jacket. I have two magnets I have never found. One is up in the attic because I found the hole where it went through the ceiling, but the other one is still MIA. I know Matt has a similar story!! I finally figured out a solution to THAT problem too, which allows me to use all the rotors that I have already had made. Since I found the RIGHT design for the machine, I have been trying to simplify it so that it is less expensive for OTHERS to replicate, and have built four different versions of THAT to incorporate the things I have learned about reducing the magnetic drag.

I have tried a setup with six magnets on the rotor and five coils on each side, as you talked about, but the magnetic drag was still too great. Every one of these machines was a significant financial investment.

At the present time I am really working on TWO machines. One machine that is 6/12 (six magnets and 12 coils) on which I am experimenting with a new rotor with smaller magnets to see how that effects output as well as drag. And a second machine that is 6/10 which will incorporate my solution to reduce magnetic drag for the first time on THAT model, and will ALSO have smaller magnets. That machine is being built from scratch. It just takes time. Since each machine costs me about \$1,500 to build, and I haven't been to a casino lately, it is taking time to accumulate all the parts. I want to compare inputs vs outputs on the two machines as well as look at the amp draw of the motor. I may have to settle for less output just for the peace of mind of knowing my motor is operating in a zone where it will last it's predicted lifetime.

Just to make myself clear. I do not envision this as a generator to power a house. I envision it as part of a system where the house runs off the three battery system and the generator is used to keep the primaries charged up so you always have a potential difference. But it MIGHT be able to be configured to put out the volts and amps necessary to run the electric motor in an electric car, which is the one project I REALLY want to work on.

I'm going to be testing all this next week with just the two coils I have now. One of the things I am VERY anxious to see is IF a DC electric motor will run on the rectified output and exactly what the DC output will be in volts and amps. Is it enough to loop the system? And running the D.C. motor, will it still speed up under load? I don't think it will run on only the output of two coils, but it MIGHT run with the output of four. That would still leave 8 to produce power on the 6/12 machine or six on the 6/10 machine.

I will not release anything more than I have on these machines until I have them working like I want them, can PROVE inputs and outputs with meters hard wired into the system, and know the design is as stable as I can get it. I don't want people spending \$1,500 on a piece of junk that falls apart and doesn't give the output I claim it does. And THEN I am going to show a black box version of the machine to PROVE it works. And if we have enough people who want to replicate, take them through the replication process one component piece at a time. So I KNOW they built it EXACTLY right. I don't want people building half assed machines and then saying what I show doesn't work. I have had enough of THAT with the 3 battery system over the last ten years. I have been putting together a parts list for the machine, and sources for the parts. The BIG expense will be SIX of these... CMS MagneticsÂ® 23 Gauge ESSEX Enameled Copper Magnet Wire 6894 Ft 11-lb
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda

Last edited by Turion; 07-22-2017 at 04:30 AM.
#1672
07-22-2017, 05:09 PM
 Mario Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 423
Mario,
You wound bifilar coils, then connected them in series and it made no difference? Interesting.

Yes, that is EXACTLY what I did. I wound with 12 strands because multiples of 12 give you the most options. A lot of numbers divide evenly into 12, so lots of possible combinations of wires. 24 strands is also divisible by 12, and 60 strands is best because it is also divisible by 5 and 10, so you REALLY get more options. Connecting strands in series increases the voltage, but more strands left in parallel increases the amperage. So you can seriously adjust the output of your coil. And remember, you do NOT have to do the same thing with all the strands. For instance, if I have just six strands, I can put four in series to increase voltage and leave the other two in parallel to increase the amps. Mix and match to get the most desirable output up to the limit of what the coil is capable of producing.

In terms of convenience for finding the right wire arrangement I totally agree with you. What I meant is, say I have a coil with 1000 turns of one wire. Now I wind another coil with the same size of wire but bifilar and wind 500 turns and connect them in series. Since the latter is in series, in both coils you have 1000 turns, and I didn't see any benefit in the bifilar arrangement versus the other, for this type of operation. Working with other things the bifilar behaves differently because it a much increased self-capacitance as opposed to the single wire arrangement.

EDIT: Bi and Citfta were kind enough to alert me to the fact that my statement above is incorrect and that incorrect combinations can cause the shorter lengths to load down the longer lengths. I want to see that happen, so I am going to play with it anyway, but no reason for others to go down the rabbit hole with me. Bi was kind enough to send me a chart of the combos that WILL work with six wires
S is for Series and P is for Parallel
1S6P So if you have only ONE wire in series, obviously all 6 are in Parallel. When I first looked at the chart, it made no sense to me. But now I get it. Weak mind!
6S1P
3S2P
2S3P

See, if you had 12 strands you would get
1S12P
12P1S
2P6S
6S2P
3S4P
4S3P
MORE possible combinations.

As to the rotor, my big machine has a rotor with six big neos on it. There are six coils on each side of the rotor. The motors I am using were not capable of breaking that magnetic lock to even start the machine, and I spent nearly a YEAR trying different things to deal with that problem. Matt designed a board to basically run the thing as a motor until it was up to speed, and then switch over.

That's something I'm working on right now, it seems like a good idea.. after all it's what John B. did with is trifilar cap pulser…to get rid of the motor

That worked great until I threw switches at the wrong time and burnt up about \$159 worth of parts. I Also had a really NICE switch that allowed me to change between 36, 24 or 12 volts as the motor supply from the batteries, but I burnt up one of those too. That magnetic drag pulled too many amps through the 30 amp switch. To physically rotate the rotor 1/6 of its rotation, where it would lock up again, I had to put a two foot breaker bar at each end of the machine and give it everything I had. And even once I got it rotating I could only run it long enough to measure outputs because the magnetic drag was causing the motor to draw more than 60 amps. I smoked a few motors.

What I came to realize is that speeding up under load is just NOT enough. You HAVE to significantly reduce or eliminate that magnetic drag. Different core material like ferrite or metglass might be best, but ferrite is expensive, and I would need large custom cores. When I am done with everything else, I will try it. Metglass is directional, and harder than heck to work with. The edges are like razors and will cut you to pieces. I wound one core so Citfta could do some testing and it was covered in blood. It comes in a roll 6 inches wide and would have to be cut into strips and rolled up. I have an entire roll of that... about enough to make cores for ONE machine. I will test that also when I am done with everything else.

I'm not at all so sure the best core materials are best in THIS case. The whole magic happens in the DELAY of the reflected counter Magnetic field (Lenz) from core to magnet (which in a normal generator results in CEMF drag). The faster the core material the more efficient things get of course conventionally speaking, but we also get less of this delaying effect. If we use a plain iron core the effect is much easier to obtain and at lower speeds, but the output efficiency sucks! So my guess is again, John used the rods for a good reason, Since they're somewhat in the middle…But only experiments can tell...

Reducing or eliminating the magnetic drag is what I spent the LAST year working on, and I am not done yet. I know HOW to do it, and have reduced it enough to get everything to work, proving my theory correct, but I know I can do better. The issue is, I basically have to rebuild the machine from scratch every time I make a change to improve it. I went through four different designs before I found one that would handle the magnetic forces that want to flex either the rotor to hit the coils or the coil holders to hit the rotor. I went through a DOZEN rotors, having the holes that hold the magnets reduced by hundredths of a milimeter each time but magnets kept getting "sucked" out of the rotor by the magnetic attraction. And when a magnet hits that iron core at several thousand RPM, you better be wearing a flack jacket. I have two magnets I have never found. One is up in the attic because I found the hole where it went through the ceiling, but the other one is still MIA. I know Matt has a similar story!! I finally figured out a solution to THAT problem too, which allows me to use all the rotors that I have already had made. Since I found the RIGHT design for the machine, I have been trying to simplify it so that it is less expensive for OTHERS to replicate, and have built four different versions of THAT to incorporate the things I have learned about reducing the magnetic drag.

Still have the sign of my muller type motor magnets on the ceiling and walls… like a machine gun ALLWAYS stay clear of the magnet path!

I have tried a setup with six magnets on the rotor and five coils on each side, as you talked about, but the magnetic drag was still too great. Every one of these machines was a significant financial investment.

At the present time I am really working on TWO machines. One machine that is 6/12 (six magnets and 12 coils) on which I am experimenting with a new rotor with smaller magnets to see how that effects output as well as drag. And a second machine that is 6/10 which will incorporate my solution to reduce magnetic drag for the first time on THAT model, and will ALSO have smaller magnets. That machine is being built from scratch. It just takes time. Since each machine costs me about \$1,500 to build, and I haven't been to a casino lately, it is taking time to accumulate all the parts. I want to compare inputs vs outputs on the two machines as well as look at the amp draw of the motor. I may have to settle for less output just for the peace of mind of knowing my motor is operating in a zone where it will last it's predicted lifetime.

Just to make myself clear. I do not envision this as a generator to power a house. I envision it as part of a system where the house runs off the three battery system and the generator is used to keep the primaries charged up so you always have a potential difference. But it MIGHT be able to be configured to put out the volts and amps necessary to run the electric motor in an electric car, which is the one project I REALLY want to work on.

I'm going to be testing all this next week with just the two coils I have now. One of the things I am VERY anxious to see is IF a DC electric motor will run on the rectified output and exactly what the DC output will be in volts and amps. Is it enough to loop the system? And running the D.C. motor, will it still speed up under load? I don't think it will run on only the output of two coils, but it MIGHT run with the output of four. That would still leave 8 to produce power on the 6/12 machine or six on the 6/10 machine.

I would rectify the output plus big smoothing cap, then to an efficient boost converter where you can set a fixed output, else your output/motor input may jump all over the place before stabilising and maybe even burn the motor. Even better, add battery to the motor, so you can start up the system. When up to speed the converter fed by the coils runs the motor and keeps the battery topped up.

I will not release anything more than I have on these machines until I have them working like I want them, can PROVE inputs and outputs with meters hard wired into the system, and know the design is as stable as I can get it. I don't want people spending \$1,500 on a piece of junk that falls apart and doesn't give the output I claim it does. And THEN I am going to show a black box version of the machine to PROVE it works. And if we have enough people who want to replicate, take them through the replication process one component piece at a time. So I KNOW they built it EXACTLY right. I don't want people building half assed machines and then saying what I show doesn't work. I have had enough of THAT with the 3 battery system over the last ten years. I have been putting together a parts list for the machine, and sources for the parts. The BIG expense will be SIX of these... [url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/CMS-Magnetics-23-Gauge-ESSEX-Enameled-Copper-Magnet-Wire-6894-Ft-11-lb/321081940977?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid =p2057872.m2749.l2649]CMS MagneticsÂ® 23 Gauge ESSEX Enameled Copper Magnet Wire 6894 Ft 11-lb

I applaud your efforts and persistence both in your work and the will to share with others

cheers,
Mario

__________________

Last edited by Mario; 07-22-2017 at 06:05 PM.
#1673
07-23-2017, 08:11 PM
 Turion Gold Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,431
Video

Open voltage on my previous coils was 257 volts at 2.4 amps. The current coil is only outputting about 62 volts at 5.5 amps.

Testing the current coil under load, it is only putting out about 32.6 volts at 5.4 amps. I still have a LOT of testing of coils to do to see what gives me the most output.

This is a YouTube video of the machine running. It is running on 36.6 volts at about 8 amps, but drops down to about 5 amps under load. On the in line panel meter that is hard to see, so at the end of the video I connect and disconnect the load a couple times so you can see the effect on the amp meter. The amp draw always goes DOWN under load.

I ran a 12 volt motor as the load, just to show that it WILL run motors and lights and still speed up under load, and the amp draw WILL go down.

EDIT:

When talking about the performance of the old coil, I shouldn't have included "open voltage" and "amps output" in the same sentence. Open voltage (257 volts) was measured with nothing connected to the coil except a volt meter. The amp reading was taken when the coil was connected to a load (light bulbs). The most amps I was able to get out of the coil under load was 2.4. I honesty do NOT remember the exact voltage, but I know it was upwards of 120 volts.

Same thing with the current coil. Open voltage with nothing connected but the volt meter was 62 volts. With a load connected ( the DC motor), the most I got was 32.6 volts across the motor at 5.5 amps.

Thanks to Bi for pointing these things out to me. He's trying to make sure that when I present information, I actually sound like I know what I'm talking about. He has a really loooong hill to climb.

My big machine that I show in this video has the principles applied to it that will reduce magnetic drag, but the new one I am building will reduce it even more, The coil tester I am running in the video does NOT have those principles applied to it. When the NEW machine is completed, I will try to loop the system just to show that it CAN be done. That should be in a week or so. I am supposed to get all my parts from the machinist tomorrow.

Running an electric motor off the generator output. - YouTube
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda

Last edited by Turion; 07-24-2017 at 03:27 AM.
#1674
07-24-2017, 03:51 AM
 Turion Gold Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,431
Testing

Tomorrow I intend to begin some serious testing while running the generator off a power supply so that I can adjust the input volts and amps to the motor, and always keep it exactly the same for all tests.

I have 12 strands on the coil and SIX are connected to 6 in series. Leaving me 6 strands to work with.

I want to measure
1. Open voltage
3. Amps output to the load.

I am thinking about using a stock motor as a load, or I have 4 wire wound 1 ohm 100 watt resistors, and could use some combination of them. Any thoughts anyone?

I intend to put three of the remaining SIX wires in series with the other three, and also run the same tests with the coil connected that way. Then I will disconnect the last group of connections, and put three of the SIX in series and three more of the SIX in series, so I only have two output wires. Then I will put all SIX strands in series and see what I get. My goal is to collects much data as possible about coil performance.

If I'm not happy with the results, I will wind two more coils with 24 strands and maybe two others with 60 strands. All coils will have 2400 feet of wire.

EDIT: There is one thing worth mentioning here that I think ALL of you need to understand...Even if you use ALL the voltage and amperage the coils on the generator put out to supply the motor turning the generator (even the IMPROVED generator) with enough current and voltage to run the motor at exactly the RPM it is running at in the video, how many of you would say that the machine is WORTHLESS under those conditions? If that is your thinking, we are are at a fundamentally DIFFERENT place in our thinking. Because even if that were so, and it is NOT. But even if it were TRUE, I could still use the output of the generator as the High potential side in a 3 battery type setup, run the output of the generator THROUGH the motor without it being consumed, and charge a battery bank on the other side that I run an inverter off of to produce ADDITIONAL power. Oh, and in the REAL world I don't NEED the great big MY1020 razor scooter motor that runs on 36 volts and 8 amps. Not when you can speed up under load and eliminate the magnetic drag.You can use a version of the Zero Force motor that runs on all voltage and hardly ANY amps, which can be obtained easily from ONE COIL. I hope that makes sense to you, because if you don't think outside the box on this stuff, you are NEVER going to see the big picture.

Oh, and just for fun, here's a really OLD video on WHY I use the boost converter.

Dave
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda

Last edited by Turion; 07-25-2017 at 03:04 AM.
#1675
07-25-2017, 05:00 AM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 6,060
Here are some ideas I got from a leader in this research so I wrote
it down on paper before I forgot which wire to put where. This
helps to keep our focus on these project strategy.

Seems like I always revert back to the old way of burning out the power.

__________________

#1676
08-01-2017, 07:19 PM
 moflint Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 32
Can it be done with capacitors?

Hi All,

Here is my idea for a capacitor shuttle circuit, Split Positive style, for running a pulsed dc motor at about 14v, 2 amps around 3 cap banks. A large house battery to be charged from the pulses/switch events of the motor coils.

I have read nearly half of this thread only, so my apologies if this has been covered already in posts I have yet to read.

All capacitors are 2.7v 400F, which is 8,748 joules, or about 30 watts for 5 mins.

Bank 1, 6 caps in series = 16.2v, fully charged
Bank 2, 6 caps in parallel = 2.7v, fully discharged
Bank 3 (not really used as a bank), 6 caps fully charged ready to be switched in Bank 1 individually

Running motor between Banks 1 and 2, the operation is as follows:

1) Bank 1 discharges to 13.5v into Bank 2. (Motor running between positives)
2) Swap in 1 cap from Bank 3 into Bank 1 (Bank 1 is now back to original 16.2v)

Repeat 5 more times until all caps from "Bank 3" are used. Now Bank 2 is fully charged at 2.7v. Bank 1 is back at 16.2v and "Bank 3" caps are all discharged. Now the cycle starts again by swapping Bank 3 and Bank 2.

Please go easy on me as I have no working knowledge of capacitors, but that doesn't prevent me from asking stupid questions, lol. But I would like to know why this would not work before I go an purchase a bunch of them.

Thank you,
Mark
__________________

#1677
08-01-2017, 08:14 PM
 BroMikey Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 6,060
Quote:
 Originally Posted by moflint Please go easy on me as I have no working knowledge of capacitors, but that doesn't prevent me from asking stupid questions, lol.

You may not have looked at all of the information. I asked this question
from those who are trail blazers told us that they tried it and that
it poses impedance changes that stops the current process.

My reason at the time for asking was that I was going to get to the
bottom of this free energy mumbo jumbo fast and count joules easy,
not like a battery that can squirrel away lots of joules as the battery
will grow surface area of plate material.

Most people have batteries and the batteries are needed to run loads
for the 1000th time. Don't burden yourselves down by adding an
additional experiment before you finish the one set before you.

After you see the obvious excess that you normally would never see
from these instructions, maybe you could start a new thread on how
you don't need to use batteries? I don't know but the guys here directing
this thread have scolded me because I keep asking so now you know.

I have to agree that we must stick to protocol to get it working, of which
I have yet to complete my model. I have 12 spools loaded as of yesterday
and will soon have my first 24 strand coil on "C" core.

John Bedini always use to say that

"GET IT WORKING FIRST THEN CHANGE IT"

PS: If I have answered out of turn this message can be deleted by me
so let me know since I do not want this thread to be locked out.
__________________

Last edited by BroMikey; 08-01-2017 at 08:19 PM.
#1678
08-01-2017, 08:33 PM
 moflint Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 32
Quote:
 Originally Posted by BroMikey [SIZE="3"][I][FONT="Century Gothic"] it poses impedance changes that stops the current process.
Ah right, that's a shame.

It seems to work with simple resistive load - in the sense that you can join the negatives of two caps and run a lamp between the positives and no voltage is lost in the transfer while running the lamp.

I am currently running an 8-coiler dualpole motor but with small batteries. I'm getting nice results but there is just a bit too much resistance in these batts to balance it all out. I have ZERO doubt of a result with new bigger batts and am ready to do that. I would prefer smaller footprint of caps though!
__________________

#1679
08-01-2017, 10:18 PM
 Turion Gold Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,431
Capacitors

Think about the following TRUE statement and you will have your answer as to why you CANNOT use caps in the 3 battery system and get the same results.

"When capacitors are connected in series, the total capacitance is less than any ONE of the series capacitors' individual capacitances. ... If two or more capacitors are connected in parallel, the overall effect is that of a single equivalent capacitor having the sum total of the plate areas of the individual capacitors."

In other words, capacitors in parallel act like batteries in parallel, but capacitors in series do NOT act like batteries in series.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda

Last edited by Turion; 08-01-2017 at 10:30 PM.
#1680
08-01-2017, 10:30 PM
 moflint Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 32
Batteries

Hi Turion,

I think I read one of these post you said you saw an improvement in charging when you changed up to 6v golf cart batts, and then again to larger 12v US Battery batts. Where your 6v batts Trojans?

I'm looking to choose between the 6v 225ah Trojan T-105s and the US Battery Monobloc 12V 220Ah - pros and cons for each.

Do you think putting 2 x 6v batts in series is less efficient than just pulsing 1 x 12v batt of the same AH capacities - or is the arrangement irrelevant and it's just down to sheer capacity?

Anyone else got opinions on how spikes are absorbed in parallel or series arrangements?

Thanks,
Mark
__________________

 Posting Rules You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Forum Rules

Please consider supporting Energetic Forum with a voluntary monthly subscription.

 Choose your voluntary subscription \$5 : \$5.00 USD - monthly \$7 : \$7.00 USD - monthly \$10 : \$10.00 USD - monthly \$25 : \$25.00 USD - monthly \$50 : \$50.00 USD - monthly \$75 : \$75.00 USD - monthly \$100 : \$100.00 USD - monthly \$175 : \$175.00 USD - monthly \$250 : \$250.00 USD - monthly

For one-time donations, please use the below button.

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:15 PM.