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  #1591  
Old 12-07-2016, 01:29 AM
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Sawt2 Sawt2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Depend on how the PWM hooks up cause technically it should ground on battery 3 as well. So if thats the case the diode Anode (Input) should go on the motor ground hookup and back to battery 1.

Attached is an image of the schematic for the Motor Controller which is just 1 step past what you are doing.

Matt
Thanks for your patience in helping me understand. i'll have to study that schematic, electronics is not my strong suit, but, i am learning.
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  #1592  
Old 12-07-2016, 01:49 AM
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Thanks for your patience in helping me understand. i'll have to study that schematic, electronics is not my strong suit, but, i am learning.

Well its a simple driver. Power comes into the system via PL1 (A wire connector). It travels through D1 a diode that keeps power from backing into the batteries. PS1 is a 5 volt regulator that supplies OP1 with its power. OP1 is an optical sensor that drives Q1 and Q2 IGBT. These IGBT's act just like transistors so they are on when the gate has voltage and off when they don't don't. Q1 drives the motor, when its shut off D2 lets the power that is left in the coil dump into the capacitors C1 - C6. The capacitors fill up higher than the source voltage and the next time Q1 and Q2 come on that power from the capacitors then dumps into the motor first and then the rest of the power needed comes from the battery system.

Overall I am hoping for anywhere from 50 - 70% reduction in power use from the motor with the almost the same performance. Maybe a little lower rpms.

I'll have it done by the end of the week or month who's know with me. LOL

Any questions just ask. And that goes for anybody.

Matt
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  #1593  
Old 12-10-2016, 03:34 PM
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Hi Matt,

I would like to build something close to you generator in dimensions, especially the long coils which are one of the keys to get high inductance without too much resistance since more wire is close to the core material. Could you give me the coil spool dimensions and core material you used?

Also, from the video it's kind of hard to tell how the coils (spools) are attached to the outer frame plates. I see the screws but am not sure where the spool ends and how deep it goes into the side plates. Could you make drawing, even a rough hand drawing, showing a cross-section of that?

Nice work by the way

thanks,
Mario
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  #1594  
Old 12-11-2016, 12:13 AM
Wistiti Wistiti is online now
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Hi Matt, Dave and other builders!
Im on something i will share when I have finish but for now I have a question...

For the 3bgs part what is the best we can use until now..? The best i use for now is what Matt have share: a boost module between the +24 and +12 for the load and another boost module on the 3rd batt for keeping the 24v topped...
You guys say also to put a diode in the circuit but I don't know where...????
Can someone tell me where and for what purpose..?

Is there something else I am messing for the optimal supply part ? (I also include in the motor for the load as an integral part of the supply system)

Thank you!
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  #1595  
Old 12-11-2016, 12:25 PM
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Wistiti,
Since you are using the circuit with the two boost modules, there is no need for any diode that I know of.

You can improve your circuit in TWO ways.
1. More efficient boost modules...and stay tuned for THAT because it is coming. That is one of the things Matt has been working on.
2. An additional source of power to recharge the primaries (like some energy from the generator being run by the motor, which is what Matt will be showing soon, OR another circuit that draws a tiny bit of power from the current circuit, but provides a LOT of power back to the system, which is what I have been working on for several weeks now and am testing now before disclosing.

There are ALWAYS going to be some losses in the basic system because of friction, heat, inefficient transference or conversion of energy, etc. They goal is to make up for those by using energy in a different way than has been common practice. Or to take energy that has been WASTED in conventional systems and USE it.
Dave
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  #1596  
Old 12-11-2016, 03:12 PM
Wistiti Wistiti is online now
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Ok thank you Dave for the reply!
So if we just use one boost module for the load the diode is use for putting some power back ... ( diode from the 3rd batt+ to 1rst batt+). Is it correct??
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  #1597  
Old 12-11-2016, 08:25 PM
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Tomatoes

Matt saw those tomatoes the only thing greener is my enviy !
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  #1598  
Old 12-11-2016, 08:38 PM
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The only reference to a diode was when a Pulse Width Modulator (PWM) is added to the circuit. If all you are using is one or two boost modules, you don't need any diode anywhere.
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  #1599  
Old 12-12-2016, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post
Hi Matt,

I would like to build something close to you generator in dimensions, especially the long coils which are one of the keys to get high inductance without too much resistance since more wire is close to the core material. Could you give me the coil spool dimensions and core material you used?

Also, from the video it's kind of hard to tell how the coils (spools) are attached to the outer frame plates. I see the screws but am not sure where the spool ends and how deep it goes into the side plates. Could you make drawing, even a rough hand drawing, showing a cross-section of that?

Nice work by the way

thanks,
Mario
Just give me some time before you try to replicate what I am putting out. I give stuff out that is throughly proven. People mess it up on their own accord then no else replicates it.
At least if I know what I putting out works then I have no guilt about it.

Just another week. I'll give ya what you need.

Matt
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  #1600  
Old 12-13-2016, 11:47 AM
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Matt, ok got it.

cheers,
Mario
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  #1601  
Old 12-14-2016, 02:12 AM
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100 to 200 watts

Very important to me good to see keeping a small ft print. Thanks for what you're doing .I saw a video about a person in the UK working on a Muller generator .he hit 20 Watts over by many things but his using small magnets to pre polarize the power coils so when the incoming neo would cause a flip in the coil polarity making the extra Energy. He said it was tricky to do .but it worked .the men in black shut him down. So he said. Good work guys.happy holidays .
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  #1602  
Old 12-14-2016, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by jim glinski View Post
Very important to me good to see keeping a small ft print. Thanks for what you're doing .I saw a video about a person in the UK working on a Muller generator .he hit 20 Watts over by many things but his using small magnets to pre polarize the power coils so when the incoming neo would cause a flip in the coil polarity making the extra Energy. He said it was tricky to do .but it worked .the men in black shut him down. So he said. Good work guys.happy holidays .

That was Romero UK. He claimed it self ran too.
All you have to do is read Muller's stuff, he never self ran. He has 2 tests reports from Square D and someone else, can't remember, and both of them showed a gain from input but not enough to self run.
So many people worked on that thing and still don't have clue.

Polarizing a core won't give you extra energy. Adding magnets to a core may make a motor spin faster but it works against you in a generator.

Matt
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  #1603  
Old 12-17-2016, 03:52 AM
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Matt

I think what i got from him was that the soft iron core was slightly poloized to match the incoming magnet like North to North but much weaker .so when the soft iron core was over whelmed buy the incoming strong northern flux field it would go south for one flip then back to North when the mag pulled out .two flips . testing will tell if viable . Jim sounds strange!
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  #1604  
Old 12-23-2016, 06:58 PM
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Battery

If there's a problem with burning out the batterys you can Return to the original set up. Just plats no paste doesn't hold as much but just about bullet proof. Home made
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  #1605  
Old 12-23-2016, 09:10 PM
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If there's a problem with burning out the batterys you can Return to the original set up. Just plats no paste doesn't hold as much but just about bullet proof. Home made
HUH? No one has said anything about bad batteries... Maybe you could fill in a few more details.

Matt
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  #1606  
Old 12-25-2016, 01:35 AM
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Battery

I meant with all of the charging and discharging going on they may deteriorate battery's with the paste do but battery's with out don't from what I've read . at 15 volts they should last a long time but the flexing of the plates might cause a problem or not . we will have to wait and see long term running. The old timers used bath tubs for cels and sheets of lead with out paste and lasted . just a thought..
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  #1607  
Old 12-31-2016, 10:11 PM
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Happy New Year

I would like to thank you for all what you share here, your passion and experience. Also would wish you all the best in year 2017 - many new, great ideas and of course happiness

Hope to here you soon. Greetings from Poland.

Lukasz
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  #1608  
Old 01-07-2017, 09:39 PM
Wistiti Wistiti is online now
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Hi guys!
Long time before I post on this tread but as I have said, im back with my last setup...

What we use instead of a modified motor coupled to a generator is a water pump to a pelton well generator. This way no drag on the 3bgs and moore easy to stabilyse!

Hope you like the idea! Until now it look promising... time will tell!
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  #1609  
Old 01-07-2017, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wistiti View Post
Hi guys!
Long time before I post on this tread but as I have said, im back with my last setup...

What we use instead of a modified motor coupled to a generator is a water pump to a pelton well generator. This way no drag on the 3bgs and moore easy to stabilyse!

Hope you like the idea! Until now it look promising... time will tell!
Very interesting
Be curious as to how that pans out.
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  #1610  
Old 01-08-2017, 08:12 PM
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Here is the number after the first test.

The test last almost 7h. I say almost cause 3 time the module feeding the 24v side get out of tuning unattended for maybe a long period... It's still hard for me to tune the 3bgs part...

The first module give an equal 13,5v at 4 amp to the pump.

Start:
B1 12,73
B2 12,55
B3 12,05
Bload (the Pelton well gen give its power to 2 // batt.) 12,13


End after disconnect everything and let it rest for 16h
B1 12,49
B2 12,12
B3 12,05
Bload 12,20

first conclusion:
I have to find a better way to stabilyse the 3bgs part.
Improve on the generating part must be done... The pump itself is not made to put out high psi so the Pelton well does not spin fast enough to give interesting power...
So far we have to optimize all the thing on it... To be continue!

Ps:I will let you know when we achieve better result. It may take some time cause im also working on other project...
Ciao!
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Last edited by Wistiti; 01-09-2017 at 01:59 PM.
  #1611  
Old 01-14-2017, 05:31 PM
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Battery

Hay turion about the three battery system .... With one battery only charging to four volts and in a charging rotation how does that work out ?? Is that how it is with John b .system ?? I mean the set up before he died?. The one Peter l. Was working on .it has to be that way ? Will it desulfate soner or later ?
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  #1612  
Old 01-15-2017, 04:49 AM
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Questions

jim,
I'm not entirely sure exactly what setup you have or exactly what you are asking, so I hope this helps.

If you are running the 3 battery system, you want to leave the battery you are trying to restore in the 3rd position. You also MUST have a pulse motor wired between the positives. If you do NOT, you are NOT "pulsing" that third battery and it will NOT charge correctly.

If that battery CAN be restored, this system will do it. I have restored well over a hundred batteries this way. However, sulfation is not the only thing that will kill a battery, so there is no guarantee you will restore the one you are attempting to restore.

ROTATING the batteries is only for batteries that you KNOW are good and will take a charge. That is done to keep them all at the highest charge possible while running a load.

Dave
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  #1613  
Old 01-16-2017, 08:19 PM
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Question Turion

Sorry if I wasn't clear .in a older post I think you said that you needed a battery in the third position that would not charge much not mechanical Damage just sulfated .or you would not get good results . well it's sulfated condition wouldn't allow it to charge? And with time it might desulfate changing the conditions for the good results? I'm a little confused .what's happing with the system that I don't see? Jim:
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  #1614  
Old 01-16-2017, 10:22 PM
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Jim,
In the "3 Battery Generating System" thread we spent years trying to develop a battery in the third position that would do what my original "bad" battery did, with varying degrees of success. Mostly we restored lots of sulfated batteries. Bottom line is...we basically called it quits working with a "bad" battery, (at least on the public forum...no sense wasting EVERYONE'S time) which is why we pretty much abandoned that thread and started THIS one to show what could be done with that circuit using 3 GOOD batteries.
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  #1615  
Old 01-16-2017, 10:44 PM
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Response

Jim,
As to your question about what is happening with this system that you don't see, I guess that depends on what system you are running. Do you just have three batteries? Do you have three batteries and the Modified razor scooter motor? Have you added a boost module to that to boost voltage to the motor? Have you added a second boost module to that to take power back to the primaries? What you "see" is going to depend on a lot of variables. What size are your batteries? What condition are they in? Which of the many setups I talked about above are you running?
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  #1616  
Old 01-17-2017, 05:54 PM
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Turion

Sorry about the confusion I'm at the moment just trying to under stand what's what with the system .no battery's yet wasn't sure if I would be setting up right . I'm limited financially and have to wait till the fund's arrive. I'm like those people. Retired living under the poverty line .looking for answers .to my energy needs got burnt by other projects going slowly looking for that extra 100 to 200 Watts .solving critical life problems don't trust the government it changes every 4 to8 years .who knows what's next really. I will start out with smaller battery's then move up .will get the motor then the boost converters.just looking for a couple of replications so this will move from theory to reality better . motor rewinds are something new to me that will take time. The battery rotation circuit will be a challenge .I've been looking at patents and found one were a guy is removing lock up with magnets operating in reverse from the lock up like North to North in that area . and about the magnets biasing the coils it does speed it up but by using a phony brake and reducing the incoming wattage returning it to the previous horse power you might reduce overall power consumption.thanks Jim
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  #1617  
Old 01-17-2017, 09:53 PM
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Finally.giving it a try

Hi Turion, and all. I finally gave it a try. First with the scootor motor (no mods yet). Then I tried it with a solenoid motor. Now in this video with my bike wheel SSG.
Is this wiring laid out right? I know the battery sizing is wrong and the small leads are also wrong. What I wanted to be sure of was the motor is between the positives of the 24v batts (batt 1&2) and the 12v batt(batt3). Thanks. This system is really cool. Wished I had tried it years ago.


3 battery generation system attempt. - YouTube

The scootor motor charges like crazy! When I load the scootor motor it charges even better.

Thanks

al
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Last edited by fan1701; 01-17-2017 at 09:55 PM. Reason: youtube trouble
  #1618  
Old 01-17-2017, 09:59 PM
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Jim,
If you are just starting out, my best advice would be to wait until you can afford three large 6 volt deep cycle golf cart batteries. You can run a rewound motor on six volts, and work your way up to six of them eventually. When you want 12 volts for a different experiment, put two of them together.

If you want some batteries to run experiments on, look behind private auto repair shops or at salvage yards.
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  #1619  
Old 01-18-2017, 12:10 AM
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Hi all. Another run but with a my1016. I'm going to make up some good size cables replace the crappy clip leads.

3BGS attempt. MY1016 motor un-modded. - YouTube

Thanks,

al
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  #1620  
Old 01-18-2017, 11:36 AM
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Info

Unless you are pulsing that MY1016, you don't have the coil collapse that assists the charging part of the setup. You could do it with a 555 timer, or devise something that shuts off power for a split second as the motor rotates. You've got a big wheel attached. That should help you figure out a way to pulse. The increased load helps with charging, but also with the DISCHARGING of the primaries. Been there, done that.

Dave
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