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  #1411  
Old 09-21-2016, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
The spikes might hurt the load but they will not hurt the boost converter as there is a diode to allow them to travel outwards.
Worst case you have solder in some some small caps so the chip that drive the thing will function. .01 PF at 500 volt or something like that. But I do not think that is the case from looking at mine.

Matt
Matt,

I think, you meant to type .01uF or 10nF, not pF.

V
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  #1412  
Old 09-21-2016, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by blackchisel97 View Post
Matt,

I think, you meant to type .01uF or 10nF, not pF.

V
Oh I was wrong its .1 PF @500v The smallest capicitor I have seen.

AQ147M0R1BAJME AVX Corporation | Capacitors | DigiKey

Noise is easily cleared up with a good gate channel and well practiced PCB placement. 100's of PDF's, by every mosfet manufacturers, that discuss it.

Matt
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  #1413  
Old 09-22-2016, 01:03 AM
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Hi all, Hi matt, i de-soldered the two output smoothing capacitors on the boost converter.
It works, i can just barely hear the high frequency in the 6 watt led bulb i'm using as a load.
I notice this cree 6 watt led dimmable bulb seems to work better than my non-dimmable 6 watt led ecosmart bulbs.
The non-dimmable ones flicker a little, no matter how much i tweak the voltage and current output of booster.
I will be testing this some more.
peace love light
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  #1414  
Old 09-22-2016, 04:51 AM
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@Matt,

Quote:
Thats what has amazed me about this newest setup. What are you really doing? Your using a crude boost circuit
The way it's set up it's actually a buck converter. I know it's not efficient as a boost converter, but I wanted to drive the sandwiched secondary load coil setup, where the collapse of the primary coils goes to batt 3, that's why I used a self-built circuit. It's still almost 90% efficient.

@V about the mechanical switching, as Matt says I think solid state has gotten pretty good, don't know if it's 100% compareable to a mechanical switch but it sure is easier. I did run a 3 batt setup with relays at about 15Hz, but didn't have good results.

Mario
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  #1415  
Old 09-22-2016, 05:59 AM
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@V about the mechanical switching, as Matt says I think solid state has gotten pretty good, don't know if it's 100% compareable to a mechanical switch but it sure is easier. I did run a 3 batt setup with relays at about 15Hz, but didn't have good results.

Mario
I was thinking something as simple as two DC motors with coupled shafts, where one would have internal windings cut from the commutator.
This way it's speed thus switching rate could be varied with duty cycle remaining low but fixed. I think, 15Hz could be too slow, perhaps?
I have no intentions to derail this thread with my thoughts and will stay quiet.

My boost converter has two caps, one on the input and one on the output. Removing the output causes drastic change in current draw (in 3B system) and Mosfet starts to cook. Spikes or the "noise" are quite impressive - see pic below, taken across the Batt3. I bought them for different purpose and they have CV and CC pots, not just CV.

Thanks
V
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File Type: jpg IMG_3130.JPG (555.2 KB, 46 views)
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  #1416  
Old 09-30-2016, 08:08 PM
desa desa is offline
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Quencher

Here is my motor ready to go.
As it finally is becoming relevant here is my 6 years old video using two coils and magnets on ends. Switching is done manually with magnet and read switch. Spikes open voltage are in exes of 1000v. image.jpg

https://youtu.be/tM27VekKO08

Second with spark gap same setup.

https://youtu.be/wG7ud711d_Q
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Last edited by desa; 09-30-2016 at 08:11 PM.
  #1417  
Old 10-01-2016, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by desa View Post
Here is my motor ready to go.
As it finally is becoming relevant here is my 6 years old video using two coils and magnets on ends. Switching is done manually with magnet and read switch. Spikes open voltage are in exes of 1000v. Attachment 17805

https://youtu.be/tM27VekKO08

Second with spark gap same setup.

https://youtu.be/wG7ud711d_Q
I like the litz'd wire.. Curious how that turns out.

Cheers
Matt
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  #1418  
Old 10-02-2016, 03:24 AM
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Multi Strand Coil Increases Magnetic Field...

Here is one page of Ron Coles notes, that John Bedini has shared in time past, that give some insight into multi strand coils and magnetic field strength for minimal current increase / strand.

Dave Wing
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Last edited by jettis; 10-02-2016 at 03:35 AM.
  #1419  
Old 10-02-2016, 03:36 AM
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Here is another...
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  #1420  
Old 10-02-2016, 05:45 PM
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Hi Matt.
I like Litz wire a lot. I used 6 strands of #30 conected parallel as a twisted bundle. It is my #4 re wind. I managed to wind 80 feet of it. Considering I am only concentrating at the motor for now the latest results are realy nice. the motor runs from 2.2V up to 24v and stays cool like cucumber. At 1.3A on 12.4V tork burns fingers. If you look at the motor original markers as where normal brushes timing where. You can are see that I advanced timing frorward. I grinded the notch and rotated plate with brushes. This decreased amps from 1.7 to 1.3A and increased tork nicely. Any hint of heat was eliminated and as it is now clamped it runs stone cold. You could see on the Skope spikes are most visible on 2.1v run.
Thank you for a wonderfull ride and as my batteries arrive hope more to come. I also must thank Bro Mike for sending me your way.
David.

Attachment 17819
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Last edited by desa; 10-02-2016 at 05:50 PM.
  #1421  
Old 10-02-2016, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desa View Post
Hi Matt.
I like Litz wire a lot. I used 6 strands of #30 conected parallel as a twisted bundle. It is my #4 re wind. I managed to wind 80 feet of it. Considering I am only concentrating at the motor for now the latest results are realy nice. the motor runs from 2.2V up to 24v and stays cool like cucumber. At 1.3A on 12.4V tork burns fingers. If you look at the motor original markers as where normal brushes timing where. You can are see that I advanced timing frorward. I grinded the notch and rotated plate with brushes. This decreased amps from 1.7 to 1.3A and increased tork nicely. Any hint of heat was eliminated and as it is now clamped it runs stone cold. You could see on the Skope spikes are most visible on 2.1v run.
Thank you for a wonderfull ride and as my batteries arrive hope more to come. I also must thank Bro Mike for sending me your way.
David.

Attachment 17819
Thats wonderful. I appreciate the info. I am happy someone finally got a clean build out of it and was able to report the details.

Cheers
Matt
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  #1422  
Old 10-02-2016, 05:54 PM
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One more.
image.jpg
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  #1423  
Old 10-02-2016, 09:56 PM
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I'm curious do you have the ability to check your rpms at some of the levels you listed? You might be able to look at the hertz on your scope divided by 4.

Cheers
Matt
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Last edited by Matthew Jones; 10-02-2016 at 10:02 PM.
  #1424  
Old 10-03-2016, 01:05 AM
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Yes Matt.
At 12.7V and 1.3A it is 3600 rpm. This puppy paks some tork. As I loade it by hand it is inposible to stop. All I manage to bring it up the amps to 1.7 before my hand starts to burn.
Thank you very much.
David.[ATTACH] [/ATTACH]


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I'm curious do you have the ability to check your rpms at some of the levels you listed? You might be able to look at the hertz on your scope divided by 4.

Cheers
Matt
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  #1425  
Old 10-04-2016, 10:29 PM
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Thoughts.

Desa,
Do you have any idea how far you rotated the end cap? It would be possible to remove the brush plate and rotate it the same amount, then reattach it so that the bolt holes will still line up.

I'm rewinding a motor to replicate what you have done. Way cool!

Dave
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  #1426  
Old 10-05-2016, 01:58 AM
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Hi Turion.
I had some time to think about it so let me elaborate. Before my timing alteration the motor was not self starter. Second and important point is that as I had it on the scope I could clearly see spikes when motor switches off and when it engages again. The negative was higher amperage drow and lack of tork. Naw as the timing is altered the motor runs stronger cooler and is practically self starter. Additionally my brushes stay clean ( I had som burn marks before). The off time is reduced naturally better tork. Now as I am satisfied having all this settled I ask myself ithis; is the sudden switch off that I am after even if my tork is reduced. As it is presently running smooth and cool perhaps I am defiting my objective. So before we all jump to conclusion I would like to have batteries in place and see results. Real reason for modifications is creation of this charging spikes and residual tork free work no matter how large or minimal is there for taking. I would be happy if the modification of timing does not hinder effects we are after.
As for your question the modification of timing is minuscule, something about one centimetre. I drilled new holes and the space in between where old screws where and bruishes plate is. You. have enough place to drill it and only difference is that lug nut is on outside. When you look at the brushes plate inside drill to the left of the present trhreded hole in the empty space to the brushes holder. Rotating brushes plate alone is to complicated because plate is riveted and grooves in plate is snug around holes, brushes space is also limited. Hope it helps.
David.


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Desa,
Do you have any idea how far you rotated the end cap? It would be possible to remove the brush plate and rotate it the same amount, then reattach it so that the bolt holes will still line up.

I'm rewinding a motor to replicate what you have done. Way cool!

Dave
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Last edited by desa; 10-05-2016 at 02:05 AM.
  #1427  
Old 10-05-2016, 04:46 PM
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Thoughts.

When you have done your tests and have determined that everything is working the way you want, a possible solution that does not require as much modification of the motor case is to change the tabs on the commutator to which the wires are connected. You could move all the connections one or two or even three segments to the right or left, and that would change the timing as well. That is what I would try. My question would be whether to move it to the right or the left. If we can get it close with this method, it might be possible to fine tune it just by rotating the end cap, which you can do if you file off the piece that fits in the notch.

Dave
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  #1428  
Old 10-06-2016, 03:34 AM
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Hi Turion.
Yes you are absolutly correct in your assumption. You could arrive at exact position as I did. I said could, not neceserly that you would. Mu last approach was to grinde the notch. I actually used same line of thinking and in doing exactly as you propose found that tuning was to much forward or not where I could get sweet spot. That is where my thinking drifted to old times when I tuned breaker points on my Pontiac. This slight touch of the distributor and you lock it in and it purs like a cat. I revinded motor many time to get it going. I put two 50f spools of wire on scale winded one, pounded it gently to fit. I reduced second spool by the length of leftover. For the last wind I inserted carton ring on bearing to have it free to turn, I dremeled plate casting marks to get most of the space. It worked perfectly but tuning it finally as it runs, rotating plate while at the same time looking at amp meter, volt meter and scope is what did it for me. When we mess with windings doing it by hand ewery motor is unic. I could say it has his specific signature or the spot where it is the happiest to do what it is suppose to do. I am looking forward to see how it turns out for you. Thank you for taking interest.
David.

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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
When you have done your tests and have determined that everything is working the way you want, a possible solution that does not require as much modification of the motor case is to change the tabs on the commutator to which the wires are connected. You could move all the connections one or two or even three segments to the right or left, and that would change the timing as well. That is what I would try. My question would be whether to move it to the right or the left. If we can get it close with this method, it might be possible to fine tune it just by rotating the end cap, which you can do if you file off the piece that fits in the notch.

Dave
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Last edited by desa; 10-06-2016 at 03:37 AM.
  #1429  
Old 10-10-2016, 12:59 AM
Wistiti Wistiti is offline
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Hi guys!
Just for sharing...
Im out in the wood for the weekend ( completly of grid) it is a real pleasure to use 2 small 7ah 12v batt for charging 3 big deep cycle as the 3rd position of the 3bgs.

I am really greatfull to Dave to share it openly !
This systčme rock!!!
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  #1430  
Old 10-12-2016, 03:16 PM
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Here is little update on the motor.. As the brushes settle on the commutator amps drow is also settling down. At present it runs happily at 12.22 W. 300 mili amps less than my best run before. Only missing component is my batteries and that is coming soon. Thank you all for sharing. Wistiti that is fantastic, happy for you.
David. image.jpg
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Last edited by desa; 10-12-2016 at 03:19 PM.
  #1431  
Old 10-14-2016, 12:06 AM
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Matt motor modification

Hey guys,

I haven't been able to post for a while. I still can't access attachments here.

I have followed desa's experiments, and wound a few different configurations. The best so far, is the 40' on each side, like he suggested. It is interesting. I changed it a bit.

I started the commutator attachment on the next segment to the right (as you see it when you are holding in your hand with the commutator facing you). Then I removed the lugs that prevent the side plates from turning. So with the bolts in place there is a few degrees of adjustment available.

In one direction, the motor runs best with the plates turned all the way counterclockwise until they hit the magnet. At 1.3A it runs 2945rpm.
If you reverse the wires and run it in the other direction, it runs 3116rpm at 1.7A, 3233rpm at 2A, 3433rpm at 2.5A, 3613rpm at 3A, and 3894rpm at 3.4A (end of adjustment other way).

Still have a lot of different windings that can be done, but this is a pretty impressive motor that Matt has come up with.

Take care,

Bob
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  #1432  
Old 10-14-2016, 12:41 AM
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I have a driver idea, and Carroll (Cifta) has already built it once for another motor. I believe and he correct me if I am wrong ran at 40 milliamp, and with the driver ran at about 10 milliamp.
So I think in light of Desa's motor with tuning and what I have been studying we can see a motor with the same power output as we are seeing now for around a 300 - 500 milliamp draw.
This would fit really well with Dave's original idea of motor and lenz free gen (Which I have already have).
The idea being the motor running between the potentials using a very small input and pass through of current by collecting that current and reusing at the motor, then turning a generator that produces a descent current. The current from the gen then passed into batt 3. The combination of 2 would be additive so we can then use an isolated sepic converter to pass current back to the top batteries. All controlled by a simple IC to regulate everything.
The hope would be to pull a constant load of say 50 - 100 with out the discharge or rotation of the batteries.

Warning may require solid state components!!

Won't happen quick though but I may start posting simple schematics outline the idea and allow for testing.

Matt
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  #1433  
Old 10-14-2016, 01:12 AM
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Hi Matt.
Please post if possible anything you have regarding Carroll motor modifications. I hope it is not privilege info only, I would definitely be interested. Anything running at such minuscule consumption is out to the moon if you get my drift. I would gladly settle for 500 ma and some nice motor power. I have toyed with motors for ages and this setup is best of the best I ever got my hands on.
I know you got lot more up your sleeves so please fill generous.
David.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
I have a driver idea, and Carroll (Cifta) has already built it once for another motor. I believe and he correct me if I am wrong ran at 40 milliamp, and with the driver ran at about 10 milliamp.
So I think in light of Desa's motor with tuning and what I have been studying we can see a motor with the same power output as we are seeing now for around a 300 - 500 milliamp draw.
This would fit really well with Dave's original idea of motor and lenz free gen (Which I have already have).
The idea being the motor running between the potentials using a very small input and pass through of current by collecting that current and reusing at the motor, then turning a generator that produces a descent current. The current from the gen then passed into batt 3. The combination of 2 would be additive so we can then use an isolated sepic converter to pass current back to the top batteries. All controlled by a simple IC to regulate everything.
The hope would be to pull a constant load of say 50 - 100 with out the discharge or rotation of the batteries.

Warning may require solid state components!!

Won't happen quick though but I may start posting simple schematics outline the idea and allow for testing.

Matt
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Last edited by desa; 10-14-2016 at 02:06 AM.
  #1434  
Old 10-14-2016, 01:58 AM
desa desa is offline
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Hi Bob.
You got it,, happy for you. I am sure you can get it down to 1 amp. Only difference I can see is that you need longer wire winds.
Two things I can suggest. When making litz wire make sure to get it as tight as possible. My break sometime so I start from beginning. Pull on it as the drill runs clockwise. When winding motor pay attention to the side of the bearing. Brushes side have ample space. First wind load as much as space permit, it is going to be snug. Second wind same, start closest to bearing. Last outside wind is most difficult because it crowds bearing so insert carton spacer on baring to curve wire around it. Take 2x4 and gently pound wire to flatten it. Before getting carton ring out epoxi just small section around bearing and as it hardens remove carton and mold it to make space so when you put the plate it is free to turn. After first run disassemble again and polish commutators as much as possible. Surprise toothpaste is a miracle worker. Messy mind you but washable. Tuning counterclockwise is way to go. Close to magnets is about right.
Hope it helps, we are in this all together so fill free to share.
David.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobfrench@fastmail.fm View Post
Hey guys,

I haven't been able to post for a while. I still can't access attachments here.

I have followed desa's experiments, and wound a few different configurations. The best so far, is the 40' on each side, like he suggested. It is interesting. I changed it a bit.

I started the commutator attachment on the next segment to the right (as you see it when you are holding in your hand with the commutator facing you). Then I removed the lugs that prevent the side plates from turning. So with the bolts in place there is a few degrees of adjustment available.

In one direction, the motor runs best with the plates turned all the way counterclockwise until they hit the magnet. At 1.3A it runs 2945rpm.
If you reverse the wires and run it in the other direction, it runs 3116rpm at 1.7A, 3233rpm at 2A, 3433rpm at 2.5A, 3613rpm at 3A, and 3894rpm at 3.4A (end of adjustment other way).

Still have a lot of different windings that can be done, but this is a pretty impressive motor that Matt has come up with.

Take care,

Bob
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  #1435  
Old 10-14-2016, 02:51 PM
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Info

I wound a rotor with six strands of #30 that are each 80' long. I was able to get 60 turns per section on the rotor. Haven't tested it yet. Hope to get to that today or tomorrow. There are 3 different widths to the MY1016 rotor. Mine is the smallest of the three. I can measure the width if anyone is interested. (1 1/8 inches) I have all three widths in my "collection"
It was pulling .74 amps, but I can't find my meter to measure rpm.

Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 10-14-2016 at 09:25 PM.
  #1436  
Old 10-15-2016, 01:32 AM
bobfrench@fastmail.fm bobfrench@fastmail.fm is offline
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desa, et all,

I took the 4 bolts out and drilled through the screw holes with a drill slightly smaller than the thread ID. Then from the back, I drilled out the small hole down to the threads with a drill slightly larger than the bolt threads. Then I screwed new bolts from the inside out the back so that I could attach bars across the back that allow all-thread to span from front to back to hold the motor together. (see pic) If not tightened, it allows a very wide range of adjustment.

My motor with 40' of 30AWG on each side runs great between 3014 rpm at 1.25A to 5095 rpm at 5A. I didn't push it beyond that.

I also needed to get the coils away from the bearing on the other motor after winding it. I found that using 24AWG magnet wire to tie it back, worked great. (see pic)

These are great little motors.

Enjoy,

Bob
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  #1437  
Old 10-15-2016, 01:40 AM
bobfrench@fastmail.fm bobfrench@fastmail.fm is offline
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I wanted to say that I am thinking of winding another motor with 60' of 30AWG on each side. I need to order wire and have been waiting to see the results of Dave's 80' each side motor. If anyone has a suggestion, I'd appreciate it.

Bob
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  #1438  
Old 10-15-2016, 01:55 AM
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Lol

I found my tach! It's in that picture you took of your motor.
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  #1439  
Old 10-15-2016, 02:45 PM
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Bob end all..
Your motor looks great. How are your fingers. Winding is not funn. You say 60 on each side,, perhaps single wind because lidz 40 on each side is about max this motor can take. If I can suggest, epofy your wire all around because as your speed it up centrifugal forces are destructive. I also wonder if you balanced rotor. This fact alone is detrimental in getting rpm to the maximum. Getting it wher you are I think now is the time to get on with second stage of testing with batteries. My are coming by Monday. I would need as much help as you so I hope smarter and wiser bud in to help as along.
@ Dave.. Nice to see your sense of humour is intact.
Happy experimenting to all.
David.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bobfrench@fastmail.fm View Post
desa, et all,

I took the 4 bolts out and drilled through the screw holes with a drill slightly smaller than the thread ID. Then from the back, I drilled out the small hole down to the threads with a drill slightly larger than the bolt threads. Then I screwed new bolts from the inside out the back so that I could attach bars across the back that allow all-thread to span from front to back to hold the motor together. (see pic) If not tightened, it allows a very wide range of adjustment.

My motor with 40' of 30AWG on each side runs great between 3014 rpm at 1.25A to 5095 rpm at 5A. I didn't push it beyond that.

I also needed to get the coils away from the bearing on the other motor after winding it. I found that using 24AWG magnet wire to tie it back, worked great. (see pic)

These are great little motors.

Enjoy,

Bob
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  #1440  
Old 10-15-2016, 04:31 PM
bobfrench@fastmail.fm bobfrench@fastmail.fm is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 183
My pics didn't post, so here they are.

Bob
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