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Bedini RPX Sideband Generator
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  #61  
Old 10-05-2014, 05:51 AM
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TA,
I'm trying to convince myself of what? LOL. That I have an education? Or that I know something you don't? Both of which are true by the way.

And if you place no value on education, you are even stupider than I thought. It is not only WHAT you learn, it is the desire to learn that is important. And wisdom can be taught to those willing to learn. If you truly believe your OWN words, that "wisdom can't be taught", why have you spent so much time trying to cram your crap down everyone's throats on every thread on this forum? Why third and forth editions of your nonsense if not to teach your "wisdom" to someone else? If it can't be learned, why not just keep your mouth shut about it. Obviously you believe it CAN be learned by others, or why keep spewing "your wisdom" all over the place? You are your own worst enemy.

You are just a little joke. Not even a big joke. Just a little one.

As for not producing a device. I fully intend to share it with all kinds of folks, just not YOU.

Dave
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  #62  
Old 10-05-2014, 05:52 AM
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@All

@All,

Dave/Turion started this thread to share a project that he is working on with Matt. Please do not post in this thread unless you are working on this project and are sharing your work - that is the purpose of this thread. Dave and Matt are stating that they are going to post the necessary information for others to learn about their work so please let them to do that without disruption.
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  #63  
Old 10-05-2014, 12:08 PM
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@All,

Dave/Turion started this thread to share a project that he is working on with Matt. Please do not post in this thread unless you are working on this project and are sharing your work - that is the purpose of this thread. Dave and Matt are stating that they are going to post the necessary information for others to learn about their work so please let them to do that without disruption.
Agreed, please stop wasting everyone's time.
I dont plan on building their device, I have my own direction to follow, but would like to see their concept and take it further into a solid state device.
So please let them show their work.
dave
Although I may build it, I do have a couple of razor motors.
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  #64  
Old 10-05-2014, 01:26 PM
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@All,

Dave/Turion started this thread to share a project that he is working on with Matt. Please do not post in this thread unless you are working on this project and are sharing your work - that is the purpose of this thread. Dave and Matt are stating that they are going to post the necessary information for others to learn about their work so please let them to do that without disruption.
Great to see the Admin stepping in. We could do with more interventions.

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  #65  
Old 10-05-2014, 11:07 PM
shylo shylo is offline
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batteries

Hi Dave and anyone else that is experimenting,
I tried something new , Since with my set-up #2 bat was losing I paralleled a fully charged battery with it and the run was stronger also after resting all voltage readings were higher. ~ 6 hours of run time. I didn't have the motor attached to anything so no load, but why would the readings go up?
Loaded or not the running of the motor should have drawn the batteries down.
The battery that I used in parallel was fully charged from a wall charger after 6 hours it had a higher reading?
Has anybody seen this before? Or even tried it?
artv
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  #66  
Old 10-06-2014, 03:51 AM
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Shylo,
I have NOT tried putting a second battery in parallel with battery 2. Were you using a "bad" battery for battery 3? I will be down in the basement working tomorrow, so if I've heard back from you by then as to whether battery 3 was good or bad, I will replicate and see what results I get.

Dave
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  #67  
Old 10-06-2014, 07:46 AM
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batteries

Hi Dave, old lawn tractor batteries that will charge to ~ 12.5 but when loaded drain very quick ,they won't start my mower. Two of those. The other is a car battery that has a dead cell or two it will only charge to ~10.5, this is the one I put in parallel with the good car battery.
I did 2 hour runs then rested for 2 hours , rotate , 2hour run , rest, rotate, run...always keeping the good car bat with the dead cell.
Ran saturday & sunday. I checked last night before posting all readings were up. I'll check before work over night rest see what they say.
Also I was using my modified Matt winding motor.
Without the good car #2 position was losing not coming back , with the good bat in place #2 stil was low but after rest leveled off higher?
And it didn't matter which battery was in position #2.
artv
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  #68  
Old 10-06-2014, 07:53 AM
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forgot to mention

I was cutting wood so run times and rest times are approximation.
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  #69  
Old 10-06-2014, 03:11 PM
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Confused

Shylo,
I am old and easily confused, and I want to make sure I get this right.

In position one you have a tractor battery that will charge to 12.5
In position 2 you have a good car battery and a car battery that will only charge to 10.5 because it has a bad cell or two. In position three you have another tractor battery that will charge to 12.5

You run for two hours and then rotate the batteries to a different position, always keeping the good car battery with the bad car battery. Correct?

So basically you have at least one good battery in every position. You ran for six hours without draining anything out of the primaries and they actually increased in voltage.

If this is correct, this is different than what you stated in the first post where you asked if "anyone had seen this."
You stated that you put a second battery in parallel with battery two because battery two was losing power. And suddenly all batteries were increasing slightly in voltage.

You said nothing about the rotation of the batteries. You didn't say the other battery in the second position was a bad battery, so I assumed the bad battery was in the third position (as usual) or you were using all good batteries, which is why I asked if you were using a good battery or bad battery in the third position.

MANY times I have seen that when I manually rotate the batteries through all three positions I can get extended run times and the batteries will hold voltage or increase slightly when using ALL GOOD Batteries. When I rotate, three goes to two, because three generally has increased in charge and two is usually the one that goes down the most. So of course this means two goes to the first position, and one goes to three. If you are consistent and have a consistent load on the motor that is NOT TOO HIGH, you should have good results. The only problem is, you can't get much work AT ALL out of the motor. At least in my experience. I think you will find that after several days of running, you will see a slight decline beginning in the batteries. BUT, I have never done this with a bad battery in the mix, only with three GOOD batteries.

Dave
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  #70  
Old 10-06-2014, 03:29 PM
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Magnetic polarity reversal of batteries

Hello Dave,

Much water has run under the bridge since our last chat. Hope all is well with you and yours. I recall some time ago you were discussing a feeling you had regarding the magnetic polarity reversal of a battery after having an experience which led you to conclude that a polarity reversal had taken place. This idea has never left me, I have shared my opinion that the 3BGS and my machines are related, I still hold this view. I was wondering if you had invested anymore time into the battery magnetic polarity reversal idea yourself. I have, and have a theory but know how you guys feel about theories, if you are interested, maybe we can discuss my theory offline, I have no desire to interrupt the flow of this discussion. Let me know....


Regards
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  #71  
Old 10-06-2014, 05:36 PM
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Hello All,

I would like to help work on this project so let me get the first stupid question out of the way. What is the "3BGS" I belive it stands for 3 Battery Generation System if I am not mistaken.

Is there an existing thread dedicated to that system? After reading this thread I got a basic parts list in mind but would like to know what everyone else is using to try and stay consistent with my tests.

Here is my basic parts list for the Basic Free Energy Device:

The Motor:

Electronic Goldmine - Powerful 3V To 18VDC Gearhead Motor

The batteries:

Amazon.com: 12 Volt 5 Ah F2 Alarm Battery 12v5ah , 12 V 5 Amp Hour , 12v 5ah: Electronics

I am going to setup manual switching and analog volt meters. Is this close to the current design?

Thanks!

-Altrez
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  #72  
Old 10-06-2014, 05:44 PM
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altrez,
The Three Battery Generating System is the 3BGS.

There is a thread here:
3 Battery Generating System

The first post in the thread tells you how to set it up, and you can use three GOOD batteries if you rotate them frequently to keep the charge on battery 3 from going over 15 volts. You need to watch it because you can BLOW that battery!!!!!!

We are taking this basic concept to the next level, but if you have a brushed DC motor and three batteries you have what you need to get started.

Dave
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  #73  
Old 10-06-2014, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
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altrez,
The Three Battery Generating System is the 3BGS.

There is a thread here:
3 Battery Generating System

The first post in the thread tells you how to set it up, and you can use three GOOD batteries if you rotate them frequently to keep the charge on battery 3 from going over 15 volts. You need to watch it because you can BLOW that battery!!!!!!

We are taking this basic concept to the next level, but if you have a brushed DC motor and three batteries you have what you need to get started.

Dave
Hello Dave,

I think I might use this motor instead what do you think?

Amazon.com : Razor E300 (V1-V35) Electric Scooter Motor : Sports Scooter Motors : Sports & Outdoors

And when you say good batteries do you mean new ones or a certain type?



Thanks!

-Altrez
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  #74  
Old 10-06-2014, 06:06 PM
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altrez,

If you are going to get one off ebay, run a search for the MY1016.That is the small razor scooter motors. Several manufacturers make them. They are cheaper. I just ordered one yesterday for $25 with free shipping. As for batteries, just good batteries that will hold a charge, and hopefully three that are the same Amp hour.
Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 10-06-2014 at 06:33 PM.
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  #75  
Old 10-06-2014, 06:36 PM
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altrez,

If you are going to get one off ebay, run a search for the MY1016.That is the small razor scooter motors. Several manufacturers make them. They are cheaper. I just ordered one yesterday for $25 with free shipping. As for batteries, just good batteries that will hold a charge, and hopefully three that are the same Amp hour.
Dave
Dave,

Thanks for the tip I just got one off eBay. So I have three 12 volt 5ah batteries and the motor coming. Is there anything else you think I need to get started?

Thanks!

-Altrez
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  #76  
Old 10-06-2014, 07:25 PM
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Additions

You will need a way to put a load on the motor. One way is to shaft connect it to another motor which you can then use as a generator. You can use a bridge rectifier to rectify the output and run 12 volt loads. Then you would need little 12 volt loads, like car tail light bulbs, to attach to both battery 3 and to the motor-as-generator to balance the two out. These are the primary things you need for all experimenting on the 3BGS setup.

We hope to go far beyond that here shortly, but all those things would still be useful. Basic volt meters so you can measure your voltage and any test equipment you can get your hands on. An oscilloscope is needed if you are going to get serious. I am going for my third two channel scope just so I can pull in data from different locations. Meters give too many flaky readings with this stuff.

Dave
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  #77  
Old 10-06-2014, 07:29 PM
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You will need a way to put a load on the motor. One way is to shaft connect it to another motor which you can then use as a generator. You can use a bridge rectifier to rectify the output and run 12 volt loads. Then you would need little 12 volt loads, like car tail light bulbs, to attach to both battery 3 and to the motor-as-generator to balance the two out. These are the primary things you need for all experimenting on the 3BGS setup.

We hope to go far beyond that here shortly, but all those things would still be useful. Basic volt meters so you can measure your voltage and any test equipment you can get your hands on. An oscilloscope is needed if you are going to get serious. I am going for my third two channel scope just so I can pull in data from different locations. Meters give too many flaky readings with this stuff.

Dave
I have all types of scopes I have been a builder for many years Thanks for the help.

-Altrez
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  #78  
Old 10-06-2014, 09:54 PM
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You will need a way to put a load on the motor.
Would not a simple prony brake be easier?
.
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  #79  
Old 10-06-2014, 10:19 PM
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@All
You know it's kind funny that it took four pages of posts to find out we are speaking of a simple 3BGS or Tesla switch. I had built both commutator and basic mosfet switched devices probably a decade ago. Now I know what some may be thinking and no that's not why I am posting. I was always 100% for a group effort and I have been having second thoughts after reading my last post. The fact that Erfinder has chimed in has made me realize I need to spend more time hands on and sharing openly. I'm really not into the youtube thing or show and tell but I do like the fact there are some experienced hands on board so I figured let's see where we can take this.

My thoughts on this subject are very different that most because my thoughts are dominated by logic. What is it we want?, how do we find it, how do we know we have found it, how do we make it work better?.

Now think about what everyone is doing, setup the circuit, switch the source batteries, take some measurements, make some adjustments then take some more basic measurements. At best we can figure on taking meaningful measurements every few hours which is why most have spent months if not years trying to understand what is happening and why.

So I propose I/we build a simple micro-controller circuit, Arduino, as time allows to switch the circuit automatically and take meaningful measurements a couple hundred times a second to track the flow of energy. Again think about what everyone is doing and how they know if they are moving in the right direction?. It seems obvious to me that we can apply a simple perturb and measure algorithm to seek the optimal timing, PWM, relating to the input/output power measurements. The same algorithm is also applied to the battery switching times. In which case we are not dealing with basic hourly measurements and taking a wild guess at what is happening we are speaking of logic controls which remember the last set of measures both instantaneous as well as the mean and always make incremental adjustments towards optimal conditions. The cost should be around $60 and the programming is not an issue. It should reduce weeks/months worth of run time measurements down to a matter of hours...theoretically, lol. I have everything that could be needed to build the system on hand.


So if you will have me in the group I will need a PM from Matt or Turion with a basic circuit diagram/pictures and possibly a skype address. If Erfinder would like to get involved that would be awesome.

Regards
AC
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Last edited by Allcanadian; 10-06-2014 at 10:24 PM.
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  #80  
Old 10-06-2014, 11:13 PM
shylo shylo is offline
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see

That's it ..I use all bad batteries ,if you can get work from dead batteries, give it.
If 3 dead batteries can preform work , as long as 1 good is paralleled ,I'll try it.
artv
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:26 PM
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Question

Can someone please post a complete diagram of how this needs to be hooked up? I know we have one dead battery in the number 3 position how are 1 and 2 hooked up in relation to the motor and the dead battery?

Thanks for the help

-Altrez
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:46 PM
shylo shylo is offline
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1 &2 are series, 3 is paralleled,
Battery 3 always charges, because 1&2 equal ~26vdc,
#2 drains ... I think batteries drain from the bottom end,
But now that Dave mentioned it , I need to try keeping a fully charged battery with position #2
artv
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  #83  
Old 10-06-2014, 11:54 PM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by shylo View Post
1 &2 are series, 3 is paralleled,
Battery 3 always charges, because 1&2 equal ~26vdc,
#2 drains ... I think batteries drain from the bottom end,
But now that Dave mentioned it , I need to try keeping a fully charged battery with position #2
artv
Thank you for the post. I am going to use the Tesla Switch diagram as a reference guide. It looks like it also needs blocking diodes.





-Altrez
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:07 AM
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A battery is not actually fully "dead" until the voltage across the terminals
reads zero volts both unloaded and loaded, until then the battery still
contains significant stored potential energy. And there is no accurate way to
determine how much energy remains in a so called "dead" battery.

Unless it can be shown or demonstrated how somehow the claimed extra
energy is entering the system from somewhere then why would anyone have
reason to think any output is not simply accessing previously "locked in"
energy by way of the Tesla switch type setup which is the 3BGS.

Those of us that have watched closely batteries under charge and discharge
know of things like a battery voltage bounce back under load and batteries
being sulfated but still containing significant energy which shows as a low
battery voltage initially and then on loading an even lower voltage for some
time before suddenly the battery resistance drops suddenly and the terminal
voltage rises as does the amount of power output.

The effect is demonstrated nicely in the following video from Sucahyo
where he simply loads a sulfated battery with a light bulb and the effect is
seen, I have also seen the very same effect but only with one battery so far
it is not a common effect and not all batteries show it. But some do.

As the battery is loaded the initial small current reduces internal resistance in
the battery until a point where the battery suddenly becomes active and
gives out it's previously locked in "stored potential energy". Simple and real.
And it explains the 3BGS nicely.

Sucahyo calls it phantom empty, I call it a sulfated battery which still
contains significant energy.

Phantom empty effect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdY-jogyeEQ

..

So the question arises. Just how would one determine the stored potential
energy in the battery in Sucahyo's video before it is loaded
to the point it
finally outputs enough power to measure as useful ? Unless folks can do that
they have no way of knowing just how much potential energy is stored in the
battery to begin with and so they have no business making claims of extra
energy until they can accurately determine how much stored potential
energy is in any given so called "dead battery".

..
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  #85  
Old 10-07-2014, 12:13 AM
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I have seen the same "empty voltage" first hand. Thanks for sharing Farmhand.

-Altrez
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  #86  
Old 10-07-2014, 01:08 AM
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Not 3bgs

AC,
We are not taking about the 3BGS or Tesla switch. Someone asked me questions about the 3BGS, so I answered. If we were talking about either of those I would have posted on those threads. Honestly, Matt and I have not decided WHAT, if anything to post about on this thread. I started this out by talking about the simple Free Energy device that John Bedini and Tom Beardon introduced us to in the "Free Energy Generation" book.

Motor
Generator
Switching
Flywheel

My idea was to take what we know is the best of each of these and combine them. Like running the best motor possible on the 3BGS setup as a way to further extend the run time of the motor and allow it to be used as a generator while it is running as a motor. Running a pulse motor if possible rather than a stock motor (like I am using now) or a Universal motor with wound rotor and wound stator that will freewheel in the off time. But does freewheeling compare to a pulsed motor with a 50/50 duty cycle where half the time it is used as a generator? Questions to be researched. Connect this to the best generator we can build, based on what we have learned. This is the direction I have been heading, and we have promising results. That is why I went to the expense of building a large machine. But in that process I came up with a half dozen design changes that will IMPROVE performance of the next prototype. They are basically things I Jerry rigged on this one that should be part and parcel of the construction process of the next one.

And I STILL have research questions that I need answers to. What size magnet to use on the generator, what is the best core material for the coils. Lots of things like that. The answers to every one of those questions will improve the performance of the unit as a whole. Make no mistake, I will research these things myself if I have to, but I thought it might be nice to have a working unit that we ALL work to improve. Just an idea.

Matt has a little working unit that is probably COP>2. It did NOT have a flywheel. It wasn't a replication of John B's basic device, but it sure got my attention. It was made of wood and wire and magnets, but it put out more than it took to run. I replicated, but took mine apart to use the rotors in my coil tester. Since I KNEW it worked, (on my bench in front of me, using MY instruments to measure the input and output) and not just with volt meters from the Pick 'N' Save, but with two different oscilloscopes. I started working on a 12 coil version and have spent well over a year on that. It DOES have a flywheel. But it is too big and too expensive for everyone here to build. We wanted to go with something simple that everyone can afford and are still truing to figure out exactly what that will be.

I agree about the Arduino. I have a couple of them that I use, and by coincidence, I just picked up another one at Radio Shack yesterday. Haven't even opened the box yet as I spent the whole day today working on my house and soldering on the motor controller unit for my big machine.

Our goal is to present something that works, and then work together to make it work way better. I am experimenting with all kinds of things right now, and in two weeks when I move up to the new place, I will be back at this full time, not dashing off a message when I come in to use the bathroom.

Dave
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  #87  
Old 10-07-2014, 01:11 AM
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@Farmhand
Very nice video, if fact I just saw the same effect on the bench 10 minutes ago with a supposedly dead SLA 12v-5AH battery and a brushed DC motor in the 3BG setup. the dead battery was not so dead after all, it just needed a little kick. I have 3 identical batteries but one seems pooched, maybe I can bring it back from the dead.

Now take a "dead" battery in position 3 with a DC motor in series as in the 3BG setup. The current flows forward towards the dead battery and the brush noise desulfates the battery a bit. The number three battery rapidly jumps to 14v as in the video you posted and adds in series to the induced voltage of the motor now a generator giving us a voltage higher than the charged batteries 1 and 2. The current appears to reverse momentarily until the induced voltage of the motor, a generator, drops and the current reverses again. Maybe I can catch the mysterious reversal on video or better yet induce a reversal. Seems pretty straight forward, we will see... .

It is interesting to note a universal motor works on both AC and DC so an AC series oscillation between batteries 3 ans 1,2 may produce a little chaos in the system. I remember using a universal motor from a shop vac but all the batteries used in the Tesla switch setup were fairly new. Hmm, is there a chance an AC series oscillation between two DC sources could produce parametric effects not expected?.

AC
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  #88  
Old 10-07-2014, 01:15 AM
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Thanks for posting that Dave. I am still confused. So there is not any direction on this thread yet? Nothing is based off the Tesla switch? If not why would you need 3 batterys and a motor?

Some clarification would be great as I have spent about $70 today

-Altrez
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  #89  
Old 10-07-2014, 01:22 AM
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@Turion
Quote:
I agree about the Arduino. I have a couple of them that I use, and by coincidence, I just picked up another one at Radio Shack yesterday. Haven't even opened the box yet as I spent the whole day today working on my house and soldering on the motor controller unit for my big machine.

Our goal is to present something that works, and then work together to make it work way better. I am experimenting with all kinds of things right now, and in two weeks when I move up to the new place, I will be back at this full time, not dashing off a message when I come in to use the bathroom.
I will let you guys do your thing then, if you need help programming let me know.

AC
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Old 10-07-2014, 01:27 AM
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@Turion


I will let you guys do your thing then, if you need help programming let me know.

AC
I am interested in adding the Arudino or RasberryPi to the Tesla Switch or whatever its called. I am intreaged now. Perhaps we should start a new thread. We could really dig deep into the system and see whats there!

-Altrez
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