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  #541  
Old 05-07-2015, 09:26 PM
gyula gyula is offline
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Hi Mario,

That is okay and I accept it but I am afraid the problem is that I did not know (and still do not know) what Matt exactly meant with this sentence he wrote to shylo: "Your always going to have drag at low RPM's because of the attraction of Permanent magnet to the metal."

I have no intension of nit-picking or hairsplitting, my understanding on ferromagnetic materials is they are attracted by permanent magnets in the function of their magnetic permeability, (among other factors of course), so a core with a high permeability is attracted with a greater force than another core with a low permeability (provided other conditions are identical or comparable).

And then Matt continued his above quoted sentence with this: "You can rectify this 2 ways. Use a material that has low attraction but high permeability or" so this is what is a controversy for me and this is why I asked Matt.

I understand and accept Matt's further answers he wrote to me in his 2nd paragraph, I learnt from it.

Greetings,
Gyula
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  #542  
Old 05-07-2015, 10:43 PM
gyula gyula is offline
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Hi Matt,

Okay I got it and thanks for the further explanation. Looking forward to further details whenever you think it is time.

Regards,
Gyula
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  #543  
Old 05-07-2015, 11:47 PM
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OrthoParameter OrthoParameter is offline
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good deal

Glad to hear things are coming together for you Matt...good news for all of us indeed.


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  #544  
Old 05-08-2015, 11:56 AM
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Hi Matt,

have you tried a copper core?

Mario
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  #545  
Old 05-08-2015, 01:37 PM
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Hello All,

I just wanted to take a moment to share a quick update. My work with the Tesla Switch in both 3 and 4 battery configurations continues. I have seen some pretty interesting things happen over the last year some of them are as follows:

1. The self recharging battery.
2. Condensation form on the charging battery.
3. Impossible runtimes that do not = total amps available.
4. Unlimited energy production when used with HHO an rainwater.

However I can not reproduce anything ever it just happens for some strange damn reason and it %$$@#%@# me off. I can setup everything the exact same way and not get any results. Come back a day later and it works for a short time.

The next area I plan to explore is fully computer controlled batteries that I can write a framework for and get the same results in a lab controlled environment each time. This will be an open source modular system so that users can share their run time code with each other in a very simple way to verify results independently among one another.

More to come in the next few months!



-Altrez
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  #546  
Old 05-09-2015, 09:35 PM
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altrez,
That's a great idea, except for one problem, and I think you have already seen this to some extent. Different batteries work differently. And once you charge or discharge a battery, you change it's chemistry so that even the EXACT SAME battery or batteries can produce different results on different days. That is the problem I ran into with the 3BGS. It absolutely works!!!....sometimes.

So just because a particular setting works for one individual with a given battery or batteries, does NOT mean it will work for another individual with the same setup and the same batteries.

I have run HUNDREDS of experiments with the three battery setup over the last 8 years. I had enough batteries so that I sometimes had four different runs going on at the same time with different kinds and sizes of batteries. There is NO DOUBT in my mind that at times I got runs that exceeded the available amp hours in the battery by 10 or more times, but replicating that??? And CONSISTENTLY???? Never happened. I will always work on the 3BGS until I figure it out or die trying, but I think we will run into the same brick wall if we have the expectation that we can come up with a setting at which any setup will work. I think each individual set of batteries will have to be adjusted and tuned. The key, as I see it, is what to look for on a scope when you are having successful runs, and then adjust settings on your setup until you see THAT on your scope. I think it will be different settings for almost every group of batteries and will in all probability be very dependent on the load. We would all be better off investing in a digital oscilloscope that can be recored onto a computer, so as we make a run, that run can be recorded. Then when there are successful runs, the data from those can be compared until a picture begins to form of what we need to be looking for.

Dave
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  #547  
Old 05-09-2015, 10:49 PM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
altrez,
That's a great idea, except for one problem, and I think you have already seen this to some extent. Different batteries work differently. And once you charge or discharge a battery, you change it's chemistry so that even the EXACT SAME battery or batteries can produce different results on different days. That is the problem I ran into with the 3BGS. It absolutely works!!!....sometimes.

So just because a particular setting works for one individual with a given battery or batteries, does NOT mean it will work for another individual with the same setup and the same batteries.

I have run HUNDREDS of experiments with the three battery setup over the last 8 years. I had enough batteries so that I sometimes had four different runs going on at the same time with different kinds and sizes of batteries. There is NO DOUBT in my mind that at times I got runs that exceeded the available amp hours in the battery by 10 or more times, but replicating that??? And CONSISTENTLY???? Never happened. I will always work on the 3BGS until I figure it out or die trying, but I think we will run into the same brick wall if we have the expectation that we can come up with a setting at which any setup will work. I think each individual set of batteries will have to be adjusted and tuned. The key, as I see it, is what to look for on a scope when you are having successful runs, and then adjust settings on your setup until you see THAT on your scope. I think it will be different settings for almost every group of batteries and will in all probability be very dependent on the load. We would all be better off investing in a digital oscilloscope that can be recored onto a computer, so as we make a run, that run can be recorded. Then when there are successful runs, the data from those can be compared until a picture begins to form of what we need to be looking for.

Dave
Hi Dave,

Yes I have pondered the problem of different batteries and how they react differently to the 4 or 3 configuration. And because of this we always will hit a road block with end users trying to replicate.

It is my goal to make a battery that I can completely detail in every aspect that can be made across the board and replicated easily. We will never have a basic free energy device without a common set of batteries that work. Theses have to be hand made, store bought batteries have way too many differences to make this project easy to reproduce.

For most people the skill set needed to fine tune with a scope will lead them to frustration. Lets take that part out of the system. We can come up with the correct mixture to form a perfect battery that will behave the way we want it to 90% of the time.



-Altrez
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Last edited by altrez; 05-09-2015 at 10:54 PM.
  #548  
Old 05-16-2015, 06:37 AM
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Turion Turion is offline
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1. Motor---Matt's Pulse motor
2. Generator---We have some definite possibilities, and Matt has something in mind he is going to share
3. Circuit---I have said that the basic 3BGS circuit will get you where you want to be, as long as you switch batteries around, but I have also said that there are some things you can do to that basic circuit to improve it. And that somebody here should be able to figure out how to switch the position of the two batteries in series with the two batteries in parallel. I have seen schematics for that in several places and have used a couple myself when building versions of the Tesla switch. In fact, I have a few boards already put together that will do the job. But improvement on the basic designs what we are looking for, so I have hopes someone will come up with something that is even better.

But back to the basic 3BGS circuit. Here is a little "boost" I have been using to get increased performance out of the 3BGS. It needs some experimenting to get the best performance, because it has a tuning pot on it, but it is something to extend the runs for a long time. I was able to run one motor turning a second motor as generator powering some small loads, charge the secondary batteries to 12.6 and the primaries (while they dropped a little initially) recovered to within .02 after a four hour run. The secondary batteries were old, but fully charged on a conventional charger, then discharged at less than the C20 rate to 12.2 volts. They charged up to 12.8 volts during the charging cycle, but dropped overnight to 12.6, which is a bit higher than they started out before I discharged them. Like I said, they were OLD batteries.

The circuit is attached. I used a little boost module that takes the place of the box on the circuit that has + and - in and + and - out. I thought of boosting the input to the motor and talked to Matt about it. He is the one who came up with this actual circuit and suggested this boost module, whichI tried because it was so CHEAP!!

The boost module can be found here:
120W DC DC Converter Boost Car Charger 10 32V to 35 60V Step Up Moudle 12V 24V | eBay

There are other versions of this same module on eBay that are sold in the US that you can get faster and cheaper.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 3BGSBoost.jpg (107.5 KB, 97 views)
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Last edited by Turion; 05-16-2015 at 06:40 AM.
  #549  
Old 05-16-2015, 11:05 AM
shylo shylo is offline
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Hi Dave , I don't know if you tried this or not.
I am running a modified version of Matts motor with the 3BGS. But I coupled it to a motor out of a cordless saws-all.
With out the saws-all powered the dead battery charges, I connect the saws-all to the dead battery which now assists in rotation of Matts motor , the dead battery starts dropping and the primaries charge.
But when the primaries are charging the saws-all and it's connections get very hot very fast at higher voltages.
If I pull the dead battery down to 8 volts , It doesn't get hot only warm and I have increased primary voltage.
I need to do more runs and longer rest times ,just to be sure.
Just thought I'd mention it.
artv
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  #550  
Old 06-18-2015, 10:16 PM
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Shylo,
I haven't tried that. Will have to play around with it a bit and see what I can come up with.

I have said that we need several parts for the Basic Free Energy Device.
1. Pulse Motor
2. Generator
3. Run it on a 3BGS type circuit on the potential difference
4. A flywheel to smooth things out and store energy.

Here is some of what I have been working with on the 3BGS type circuit for a basic device.

I had a thought a while back about the fact that the motor seems to increase the voltage coming from the two batteries in series before it gets to the 3rd battery, which is part of what allows the 3rd battery to charge. With that in mind, I asked Matt if there wasn't a way we could boost the voltage coming out of the motor to REALLY charge battery 3, and he came up with a circuit which I have been playing around with for a while now. I get different results depending on the "Boost Module" I am using and the voltage that hits battery 3. I have two batteries in parallel as my 3rd battery and two primaries in series. The goal for me has been to
1. Run a motor
2. Turn a generator
3. Use generated voltage to power a small load
4. Keep the primaries from discharging too far down
5. Charge the secondary (parallel) batteries quickly

I did a number of runs prior to my trip to Arizona, and now that I am back, I intend to do many, many more. What I am seeing is that I can get increases in my charge batteries that are far greater than the losses in my primary batteries while still running a motor as generator and powering a small load.

The simple boost module I am using is here: 150W DC-DC Boost Converter 10-32V to 12-35V 6A Step Up Voltage Charger Power

A video of the setup I am running is here:
Boost Circuit - YouTube

My latest test results for a 30 minute run are as follows.

The two primary batteries in series:
Battery One start voltage 12.59 end 12.56 (after two hour rest)
Battery Two start voltage 12.54 end 12.50 (after two hour rest)

The two batteries in parallel
Battery Three start voltage 12.39 end 12.57 (after two hour rest)
Battery Four start voltage 12.48 end 12.58 (after two hour rest)

The idea would be to then flip the two batteries in series with the two batteries in parallel and continue to use the motor to run a generator powering a load. It is kind of like a tesla switch, except with a motor and the boost circuit where the transformers would go.

I hope some folks will give this a try. I hate it when I am the only one beating my head against the wall. It's way more fun when others are denting their heads along side me.

Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 07-03-2015 at 07:27 AM.
  #551  
Old 06-30-2015, 08:29 PM
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Turion Turion is offline
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Circuit update

Long term runs, minor losses to primaries, higher gains to charge batteries. Switching positions of batteries between each of several LONG runs shows net gains on ALL batteries. Basically the motor runs the generator "for free" . Period.

It boils down to what is the best generator to attach to the motor. Matt has things in the works, and there is the Mr. Angus Wangus videos to consider.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOsy2TvOIjw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED7_O5D4Eww

The only concern now is whether this circuit causes long term harm to the batteries...shortens their usable life span. Only time will tell.

Matt will probably still share info on the generator when he finishes it. I know he has been plugging away at it in between trying to make a living.

We made a commitment to give you all the pieces. You have them. Nobody seems to be interested anymore anyway. Not a single post here in a few weeks. If we are the only ones contributing, I see no reason to waste time posting when I could be researching
Adios

Dave
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  #552  
Old 06-30-2015, 11:20 PM
Tishatang Tishatang is offline
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Hi Dave
Please keep posting any updates. I am sure others like me are interested in your work. Times are very stressful right now. As for me, I have not touched my bench since I saw you when you picked up the McCullough generator. I think age catching up to me, now 78.

I have crazy idea looking at your latest setup. Since you are now using parallel charge batteries, maybe you could insert a metal plate between them? This plate could be connected to an aerial or a ground to couple to the environment as an open ended system. Or maybe connect a large capacitor between the plate and ground. Maybe collect extra energy?

When I briefly hooked up the three bat system, I was getting a 16k to 18k hertz freq on my counter. I am hoping the plate and capacitor can collect something extra the batteries can't?

Chris
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  #553  
Old 07-02-2015, 11:26 PM
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Turion Turion is offline
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TIME TO GET BUSY AND BUILD
Chris,
Long time no see! Sorry to hear you haven't been back at it. From what I saw, you had some things worth exploring on that bench of yours.

Here's some data for you

Run time 30 minutes.
Battery #1 Start 12.45 End 12.22 After 1 hour rest 12.39
Battery #2 Start 12.43 End 12.23 After 1 hour rest 12.37
Battery #3 Start 12.41 End 12.76 After 1 hour rest 12.48
Battery #4 Start 12.41 End 12.85 After 1 hour rest 12.54

Rotate pairs of batteries
Run time 30 MORE minutes

Battery #1 (Moved to 3rd position) End 12.67 After 1 hour rest 12.55
Battery #2 (Moved to 4th position) End 12.67 After 1 hour rest 12.52
Battery #3 (Moved to 1st position) End 11.15 After 1 hour rest 12.44
Battery #4 (Moved to 2nd position) End 12.31 After 1 hour rest 12.50

If you look at the voltages, ALL batteries gained in voltage.

During the run, the stock razor scooter motor was powering a second razor scooter motor used as a generator. That generator was outputting 12 volts at .45 amps to the load, which was a 12 volt electric fan rated at .8 amps. (but only drawing.45)

At a MINIMUM, that's 5.4 watts of power used to run the fan plus 48 watts of power used to run the motor turning the generator, for a total of 52 watts of power used with ZERO losses to the batteries...in fact, a GAIN in voltage. I think that might qualify as COP>1. What do you think?


I believe this shows what is possible. There is still lots of experimenting to be done here. The output voltage of the boost circuit should be experimented with to see what produces the best results. There should be a hundred people taking a look at this. I JUST SHOWED YOU HOW TO POWER A GENERATOR FOR FREE. Will it work long term? I have no idea. Will it kill the batteries? I have no idea. But when you can run a motor for 8 or 9 hours for free, that's a pretty decent first step.

Bob French is going to post some results, I believe. He has been running with only TWO batteries instead of FOUR, and he has been getting some good results. Yesterday he sent me an e-mail with what he said was "disappointing results" for that run. He ran for 9 hours and broke even instead of getting an increase in voltage on his batteries. I told him there were people on the forum who would wet their pants if they could get a motor to run for 9 hours for "free." He has had MANY runs where the voltages climbed with just two batteries, but he has not been putting a load on his motor, and has been using a much smaller brushed dc motor. If I remember correctly, he has used a couple different motors and gotten better results with the bigger motor, but I will let Bob report his OWN results.

If you do runs with loads that don't pull your primaries too far down, they will recover well, and if you rotate the batteries between runs you are going to see an overall gain on the voltages in your batteries. Don't take my word for it. Set the silly thing up on YOUR bench and check the results with YOUR meters, and then let's use a pulse motor. And then let's add that Lenz free generator. And then lets put together a circuit to automatically switch out the batteries for us with one set always resting.

One of the reasons I am so excited about what Bob has been doing is because if it works with two batteries, you can build a circuit with three and always have one resting.

Anyway, there are the test results. I posted video of the setup and the circuit a while back. All I have left to do is some really long term runs to see the ultimate effect on the batteries. I really don't know what else I can give you guys to get anyone interested in this.

Oh, and here's a little tidbit. I did all this without discussing a single theory about why it should or shouldn't work. I just built it and experimented with it, and when I had an idea, I tried it out for MYSELF instead of trying to cram it down anyone else's throat. When I needed help, I asked someone for help. Not a single person (except Matt) knew I was going to build this until I built it. I didn't come on here and talk about what I was going to do and share all kinds of theories to be debated. I built it, tested it, and then posted my results. No theory necessary. NOW we can theorize about why it works and how we can improve it, but please, if you have a theory about how it can be improved, build it yourself and then try your theory on your OWN build. If it works, come report to us what you have
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Last edited by Turion; 07-02-2015 at 11:32 PM.
  #554  
Old 07-03-2015, 03:20 PM
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nice work dave.
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  #555  
Old 07-03-2015, 11:19 PM
shylo shylo is offline
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rebuild

Hi All, I was running using 3 sets of brushes , 1 for drive , the other 2 for charge , When you try to dump charge back to the run ,everything gets hot.
So then I figured charge caps ,shut off the supply , and dump the caps into the off drive.( hence the switch I need)

It was working pretty good until the drive brushes shorted to the collectors, lots of smoke and burnt wires.
Rebuilding right now ,that won't happen again.
With the 3BGS , I was charging #3 and #2 of the primaries, and #1 was losing only hundredth's of a volt.
The gains in #2-3 well out weighted the loss in #1.
If I had some way to rotate the batteries automatically , I think it would run till the bearings give out or the plates in the battery fail.

Matt, you talked about shorting the coils with no plasma spark, that spark destroys ,connections , comm segments and diodes, I'm trying to do it so there is no damage.
Is it possible?
artv
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  #556  
Old 07-04-2015, 03:10 AM
bobfrench@fastmail.fm bobfrench@fastmail.fm is offline
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Hello. I’m Bob. I’m new here though I’ve known Dave through another forum for a few years. I’m not here for the money, because it always flows away from me. I’m not here for glory, because my experience has been that after all the long hours and frustrating failures, success has always come by accident…without rhyme or reason. That being said, here’s what I’ve been up to lately:

Below are a few pics of the version of Dave and Matt’s basic circuit that I’ve been playing with. It seemed redundant to me to have a second Primary battery is we use the Boost Module to raise the voltage, so I have been using one Primary and one Charge battery.

I’m using brand new batteries. If the batteries are at a high state of charge, my runs have been gaining or breaking even on a repeatable regularity. LA batteries tend to loose energy on their own, so little by little the batteries run lower and then the tests start loosing a little, then more, spiraling downward. With a high charge in the Primary, the Boost Module can be turned up to charge extremely fast and runs the motor strongly.

I haven’t started running a generator off the motor yet, so I haven’t taken advantage of the extra output from the motor with which we can push things well over into OU territory. But I was startled at the first runs to find that this little circuit does more of what I have spent years trying to experimentally find.

On 06-29-15, I used two new 12V, 12Ah motorcycle batteries, the Boost Module, and a 6-18V DC motor (Johnson P/N 76256-3J2861, about $3.50 at Goldmine Electronics). The batteries were standing at 12.46V and 12.46V at 1055 when I started the test. The batteries were at 12.24V and 13.18V when I stopped the test at 1259. After resting until 1435, they stood at 12.43V and 12.65V. A gain of .19V at the cost of .03V. The batteries are identical.

At 1518, I ran another test at a higher speed (1802 rpm). Starting at 12.44V and 12.64V, stopping at 2019 with the batteries at 12.00V and 14.11V. At 2149 they were standing at rest, 12.19V and 12.70V.

The next day I reversed the batteries and at 1429 with the batteries rested at 12.60V and 12.22V, ran a test at 672 rpm. Stopping at 2300 (8.5 hours later), the batteries were at 12.02V and 13.01V. Rested at 0030, they stood at 12.16V and 12.65V resulting in loosing .43V and gaining .43V.

The following tests (switching batteries back and forth) resulted in the following:
+.08V and -.08V
+.08V and -.07V
+.05V and -.06V
+.18V and -.21V
+.08V and -.12V

By this time the batteries were down to 12.22V and 12.43V. So as you can see, the gains turned into break evens and then losses as the batteries voltage dropped, little by little. I believe that maintaining the batteries at a high level will be necessary.

Fun, eh?

Bob
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Two Battery Circuit.jpg (171.7 KB, 90 views)
File Type: jpg Two Battery, top.jpg (188.0 KB, 69 views)
File Type: jpg Uneven Battery Charger.jpg (186.3 KB, 87 views)
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  #557  
Old 07-04-2015, 03:27 AM
bobfrench@fastmail.fm bobfrench@fastmail.fm is offline
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Uneven Battery Charger

I forgot to talk about this:

I included a circuit in the above post for a 12V Primary charging a 6V battery. The main thing I wanted to say about it is that even without energizing the Boost Module the circuit runs the motor and charges. With the switch off, when I made the last connection while setting up the test, the motor started and the 6V battery voltage increased. I turned the switch on and the Module energized and the motor sped up. Very weird. Apparently, the Module's circuitry allows something through if the potential is there. (?) Or maybe it's just magic.

Bob
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  #558  
Old 07-04-2015, 03:35 AM
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Hi Bob and thanks for posting that info. I am going to be very busy with out of town company for the weekend but the first of the week I want to try that with a motor and generator. At present I only have two good batteries so your circuit will work well for me until I get some more batteries. I have some unmodified scooter motors and one modified according to Matt's design. I also have a pump motor I am using as a generator. So I have a couple of different set-ups I can try. I will post the results when I am done testing.

Later,
Carroll
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  #559  
Old 07-04-2015, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobfrench@fastmail.fm View Post
I forgot to talk about this:

I included a circuit in the above post for a 12V Primary charging a 6V battery. The main thing I wanted to say about it is that even without energizing the Boost Module the circuit runs the motor and charges. With the switch off, when I made the last connection while setting up the test, the motor started and the 6V battery voltage increased. I turned the switch on and the Module energized and the motor sped up. Very weird. Apparently, the Module's circuitry allows something through if the potential is there. (?) Or maybe it's just magic.

Bob
Hello Bob. Thanks for the details of your testing. In your 12V to 6V battery setup, the reason you saw the motor start and the 6V battery start charging when you hadn't switched on the boost converter yet is because a non-isolating boost converter (also called a boost switching regulator or boost DC to DC converter) has a direct connection from it's input Vin + terminal to its output Vout + terminal, typically through a low forward voltage drop diode such as a Schottky diode. If you see the attached schematic of a basic boost converter circuit it should be clear why this is the case.



I know you guys are probably already fully aware of this, but just putting this out there for anyone who may find it useful. If you run a battery down for a while by connecting some load to it, and then disconnect the load and let the battery sit for a while, with almost all batteries the battery voltage will start to climb back up again. However the unloaded rest voltage of a battery doesn't give a very accurate indication at all of how much charge is left in the battery.

I would suggest the following as a possible alternative, but this probably only makes sense if all the batteries in the test setup are of the same type and same capacity. If you have a battery charger that has an indicator light that reliably indicates when a battery has reached full charge, after you have finished your test runs on your set of batteries you are testing with, you can put all batteries on charge one at a time and time how long it takes before each battery comes up to full charge with your battery charger. I have found that the battery charge times for a given battery type and capacity and a given battery charger give a fairly reasonable indication of how discharged a battery really is. The more discharged a battery is the longer it takes to charge. As long as the batteries are of the same type and capacity, the charge up times will give you a much better indication of how discharged a battery really is by comparison, than measuring the unloaded rest voltages on the batteries which is very misleading. Alternatively if you have some sort of battery tester that can accurately measure the remaining charge on a battery then that might be even bettter, but for certain you can't rely on the unloaded rest voltages of batteries as an indicator of charge remaining on a battery.

BTW, I have done a lot of similar testing to what you guys are doing, so I know well the problem of judging the remaining charge on batteries. I have used a 1 Amp trickle charger with smaller 12V SLA batteries for my testing, and I have found that the battery recharge times when using this same charger give me a resonably good idea of how discharged the batteries were by comparing the charge times. After a while you get a pretty good feel for how discharged a battery is by how long it takes to recharge. Just throwing it out there in case someone else may find this method useful. Of course as a battery starts to get older its charge times may start changing, but over a shorter term the relative charge times should be a fairly good indicator of remaining charge.

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Last edited by level; 07-04-2015 at 05:33 AM.
  #560  
Old 07-04-2015, 07:20 AM
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Turion Turion is offline
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I have been using the following meter to check the capacity and voltage of the batteries before and after runs, and as I rotate them.
Digital Automotive Battery Analyzer

But as far as I am concerned, the TRUE measurement of a system is how many watts of power does it put out. When the output of the generator to the load (volts x amps) exceeds the total watt capacity of the four batteries by several times, I believe this is worth looking into.

The most important thing people need to remember is, we DON'T have to get more out than what is put in. If we break even or a little LESS than even, we still get the majority of the power produced by the generator for free. That's what we're shooting for here.

Dave
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  #561  
Old 07-04-2015, 07:37 AM
erfinder erfinder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I have been using the following meter to check the capacity and voltage of the batteries before and after runs, and as I rotate them.
Digital Automotive Battery Analyzer

But as far as I am concerned, the TRUE measurement of a system is how many watts of power does it put out. When the output of the generator to the load (volts x amps) exceeds the total watt capacity of the four batteries by several times, I believe this is worth looking into.

The most important thing people need to remember is, we DON'T have to get more out than what is put in. If we break even or a little LESS than even, we still get the majority of the power produced by the generator for free. That's what we're shooting for here.

Dave

Hello Dave,

Where are you on the generator? Have you found a configuration which you are ready to discuss?

Regards
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  #562  
Old 07-04-2015, 08:35 AM
shylo shylo is offline
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Thanks for the info Bob. I noticed in your schematic and Dave's that the ground out is not used. Then in Levels' schematic it seems the ground is common? It has me confused how can the circuit even do anything seems the Pin would just go directly to Pout. I'm pretty slow when it comes to electronics or anything else for that matter.

Matt , Thanks I'm going to make new brush holders , Since I only have 2 drive brushes I've noticed with other builds that once the motor is running you can adjust them to increase or decrease rpm and amp draw. This also affects the arcing at the brushes. I lock them in place with the least amount of arcing.Is this the proper positioning? Or just go for rpm?
Also since you send a higher potential back to the source do I still need the blocking diode? Or better to keep it in there just for protection?
The amp draw went way up off scale when everything burnt ,the insulation between 2 brushes failed, dead short right?

Still waiting on my boost converters to arrive, will I be able to use them on the outputs of the collectors safely without burning them up?
I ordered 5 because I figure some of them will be sacrificed.
Back to the brushes.
artv
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  #563  
Old 07-04-2015, 11:38 AM
level level is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shylo View Post
I noticed in your schematic and Dave's that the ground out is not used. Then in Levels' schematic it seems the ground is common? It has me confused how can the circuit even do anything seems the Pin would just go directly to Pout.
Hello shylo. With the boost converter, when the transistor is pulsed on it pulls more current through the inductor, and then when the transistor is switched off the diode collects the high voltage back pulse from the inductor and stores the energy in the output capacitor. Since the inductor back pulses are higher voltage than the input voltage to the boost converter, the output voltage on the boost converter output capacitor is higher than its input voltage when the boost converter is powered on. To adjust the output voltage on the boost converter, the boost converter typically adjusts its transistor pulsing duty cycle. In Bob's 12v to 6V battery circuit, the negative terminal on the primary battery is the common ground for the whole circuit, so that is why you don't have to conect the boost converter output negative terminal to anything, as its input negative terminal is connected to the primary battery neagative terminal when it is switched on.
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  #564  
Old 07-04-2015, 03:32 PM
bobfrench@fastmail.fm bobfrench@fastmail.fm is offline
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Thanks

Dave, Carroll, Level, and artv,

Thank you all for the warm welcome.

Level, thanks for the Boost Module explanation and circuit drawing. So the motor runs off the potential difference of the batteries (minus some losses) with the switch open. I kinda figured it was something like that, but didn't know the Boost circuitry. I agree with you about the inaccuracy of just measuring the voltage of the batteries, but at this point, it's just a convenient indicator. Because we're swapping the batteries back and forth, the true test is whether they go up or down in the long run.

Once I have a pulse motor other things will be possible, such as back popping the Primary with a cap dump on the OFF cycle. Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to pulse a conventionally wound motor until I build a true pulse motor? Is it a viable idea? I have thought about hooking up an Arduino and transistor to regulate it. (?) Then I could use the Arduino to dump the cap too. I'm running tests on one of my two units and the other two batteries are on my Bedini energizer getting a little conditioned. When they come off I might try that.

Bob
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  #565  
Old 07-04-2015, 03:37 PM
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SkyWatcher SkyWatcher is offline
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Hi folks, Hi Dave, i assume you are also dbowling from other site.
Keep sharing and keep at it, we are all in the same boat, no matter if some wish to believe they are not.
I was working with the Rene re-emf charger for the past weeks and noticed the idea about the boost converter with your circuit.
So yesterday, i hooked up a medium power regular transformer in line between the sources, i only have one 235cca tractor battery at the moment and using a 30 volt laptop power supply as primary source.
Then hooked a 6 watt led bulb to the transformer secondary output and it lighted to decent brightness, maybe 30% of full.
The kicker is, the input amps dropped by 40 milliamps, from .2A to .16A.
Then i thought, why not place a full wave bridge on the transformer secondary output and then run the led bulb in line back to the charge battery.
Another kicker, it dropped a further 10 milliamps, down to .15A and the charge battery is charging much faster with 4.5 watts than it did when using 6.1 watts or .2A at 30.5V for input, without the transformer or led bulb.
This line of experiments seem worth our time.
peace love light
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Last edited by SkyWatcher; 07-04-2015 at 03:41 PM.
  #566  
Old 07-04-2015, 04:10 PM
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Turion Turion is offline
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Skywatcher,
Yes, I am the same dbowling from the other site. I posted the info there, but I won't be back. I have no time to argue with them. I did my part by sharing. I'm not required to hold hands or convince all the naysayers.

Bob,
you can pulse a conventional motor with an external commutator. Probably the best one to use would be one that works by line of sight. (Optical sensor) Then you can make a wheel that blocks line of sight for whatever segment of rotation you want, or that allows the motor to receive power several times during rotation with several off times.

erfinder,
Matt has been working on a generator, but life has been keeping him busy. He's pretty sure it will do what we want. I have been gone for weeks working at my mom's place and have to leave again next week, so I have been unable to do much. I have been working with those U shaped cores with two coils on them (the pump motor Gerard showed us) and got some good results out of that. I know Carroll has been looking into it too. But as far as saying "this is the one", no, I'm not at that point....other than what Matt is working on.

If we take this circuit and Matt;s pulse motor, we're pretty darn close. From what I have seen almost ANY generator will get us there because this circuit extends the run times of the batteries to the point that you just need that little bit extra once in a while to keep them up where they need to be. And that was the whole point. I don't care if this circuit is COP>1 or not, as long as it gets me those long extended run times without needing any outside input to the batteries, and I already know it does. Which means the majority of the generator output can go to running loads.
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Last edited by Turion; 07-04-2015 at 11:05 PM.
  #567  
Old 07-05-2015, 12:44 AM
bobfrench@fastmail.fm bobfrench@fastmail.fm is offline
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Today I put three 100Ah LA batteries that I had converted to Alum in series as a Primary and ran a test charging two more in parallel with just the motor in between (no Boost Module). I ran it wide open for 1 hour and 50 minutes. Starting at 17.40V and 5.77V, they went to 16.09V and 5.96V, where I stopped it. 5 hours later they were standing at rest at 17.42V and 5.88V.

I'm running another test now.

Bob
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  #568  
Old 07-05-2015, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobfrench@fastmail.fm View Post
Today I put three 100Ah LA batteries that I had converted to Alum in series as a Primary and ran a test charging two more in parallel with just the motor in between (no Boost Module). I ran it wide open for 1 hour and 50 minutes. Starting at 17.40V and 5.77V, they went to 16.09V and 5.96V, where I stopped it. 5 hours later they were standing at rest at 17.42V and 5.88V.

I'm running another test now.

Bob
Bob, is that a correct number...the battery went DOWN and then jumped back up to 17.42
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  #569  
Old 07-05-2015, 11:24 AM
shylo shylo is offline
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Hi Bob ,Were the 2 batteries in parallel alum converted also?
3 in series , were only about 6 volts each, or was 1 or 2 way low ,the others high?
I have lots of dead batteries ,that are pretty much useless, would it be worth converting them?
I can put any of them in the 3BGS and they will charge , but it doesn't have the same capacity . More than before ,but not as good as new.
From what I've seen you just flush the battery clean and than fill with a certain recipe of chemicals. But like everything else you can search for days and never get a definitive answer.
Thanks for the info those #'s are inspiring.
artv
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  #570  
Old 07-05-2015, 01:07 PM
bobfrench@fastmail.fm bobfrench@fastmail.fm is offline
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Yes, Dave, 16.09V. When I saw that they had fallen that much I decided to stop the test. I was quite surprised to find that they had recovered to higher than where they started.

Shylo, all the batteries were identical...100Ah 6V deep cycle LA batteries. They are old and not in great shape. I have found that in converting batteries to Alum, that if I dump on the acid, but DO NOT RINSE the battery, the little bit of acid is good. We have used a variety of mixture ratios and all seem to work. We started with what we call "10%", which was 1 part Alum by volume to 9 parts distilled water by volume. I have used up to equal amounts of each by volume. All seem to work.
:"
I have also used multiple applications. Let me explain: You have to warm the water (140°) so the Alum will dissolve completely. After poring it into the batteries it will precipitate crystals as it cools. DO NOT MOVE THE BATTERY UNTIL IT IS COOL (at least 2-3 hours). After it cools I sometimes would dump out the liquid, which is almost just water, and apply another batch of warm solution to increase the crystals in the battery. I have no good data to say whether this is helpful or not.

Alum batteries are different animals. I have run them completely dead with an incandescent bulb over night (a dead short when it quits lighting) and had them bounce back up by themselves. Then I charged them normally. You can't hurt them.

BTW, a friend found out that Alum is a "secret ingredient" that they add only to their premium batteries. I added 1/2 tsp to each cell of my 215Ah, 6V deep cycle batteries in my solar system (I live off-grid). They are working better than ever...seem to charge faster, hold higher, longer. This is a subjective statement as I can track the voltage of the system, but the amount of solar input varies constantly, everyday, every moment.

Bob
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