HHO For Vehicles Questions

Fatman1 · #31 (**permalink**) 05-27-2008, 02:33 PM

Thanks,
Has anyone try to use a HHO torch to weld small things with?
I need to get a smaller tip, blow back sucks

I'm going try a 10cc needle set up

Aaron · #32 (**permalink**) 05-27-2008, 03:20 PM

Jetijs posted some great video clips of welding with HHO. You can search the forum for the posts or search his username in youtube.

wpage · #33 (**permalink**) 05-27-2008, 07:17 PM

This is a great thread. Planning on building this for my GM 3.5 litre I 5 engine. Will ABS plastic (black plastic) work as well as PVC (white plastic) for the housing?
They didn't have complete sets in either type so I mixed and matched up and got the universal bond. Also the ABS in black seems more natural in the engine compartment with all the other black colored objects...
Will the ABS hold up as well as PVC?

TuxAir · #34 (**permalink**) 05-27-2008, 07:43 PM

According to a compatibility chart, ABS plastic is compatible with the KOH solutions.

rickoff · #35 (**permalink**) 05-28-2008, 03:55 PM

You can use PVC (as I did to build my SMACK booster) or ABS, however all new SMACK boosters manufactured by Dustin (the inventor) are now being made with acrylic bodies and bubblers. This is a more expensive solution, but the acrylic is better able to withstand and dissipate heat caused during the electrolysis process.

You might also consider using a pre-made acrylic cannister, such as is readily available at WalMart or Bed, Bath, and Beyond stores for about $10. They are great for bench testing and prepping the cells and electrolyte, as you have a clear view of everything going on inside the unit, and they have a wide top lid with an airtight seal, and a stainless latch which secures the lid and is easy to open when you want to add water or electrolyte, or remove the cell array. I kept mine for doing further bench tests, but you could certainly use the unit for an installation. Several other people have done that with no problems. If you go that route, be sure to use at least one bubbler at the side of the unit, and better to add a second bubbler closer to the point where you are introducing the HHO gas into the intake airstream. I also added a blowout cap device on the lid for extra protection under a worst-case scenario of explosion within the device. See the following video for an intentional blowout test, which shows the method I adopted: YouTube - #81 - VSPB Cell blowout test 1

Best wishes,

Rickoff

Sephiroth · #36 (**permalink**) 05-28-2008, 07:29 PM

There was some discussion on the neutral plates earlier in this thread so I thought I would provide a link to a vid youtube user nasanction sent me in response to an unrelated vid :

YouTube - Hydrogen Tap Out! Best Hydro at 20 Amps #2

interesting stuff...

pln4472 · #37 (**permalink**) 05-29-2008, 05:14 AM

Fatman1

I am new to the forum, but this is what I did.

I had the same problem with my torch, I went to Napa and bought a .023 tip for a wire feed and brazed it to a piece of 1/4 copper tubing. About a one inch flame with 750 ml minute. About a 4 inch flame with just over 2 L minute.

Using two different modified Smacks busters and NAOH.

Marlin

pln4472 · #38 (**permalink**) 05-29-2008, 05:19 AM

Also, I forgot to say, I welded Glass to Rocks and metal. I don't understand how it works. 270 degrees flame temp. yet it will melt a rock or glass instantly.
I soldered copper tubing, nothing to special there. maybe I didn't have enough gas, about 2 L minute, about 4 inch flame.

Marlin

wpage · #39 (**permalink**) 05-29-2008, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickoff

You can use PVC (as I did to build my SMACK booster) or ABS, however all new SMACK boosters manufactured by Dustin (the inventor) are now being made with acrylic bodies and bubblers. This is a more expensive solution, but the acrylic is better able to withstand and dissipate heat caused during the electrolysis process.

You might also consider using a pre-made acrylic cannister, such as is readily available at WalMart or Bed, Bath, and Beyond stores for about $10. They are great for bench testing and prepping the cells and electrolyte, as you have a clear view of everything going on inside the unit, and they have a wide top lid with an airtight seal, and a stainless latch which secures the lid and is easy to open when you want to add water or electrolyte, or remove the cell array. I kept mine for doing further bench tests, but you could certainly use the unit for an installation. Several other people have done that with no problems. If you go that route, be sure to use at least one bubbler at the side of the unit, and better to add a second bubbler closer to the point where you are introducing the HHO gas into the intake airstream. I also added a blowout cap device on the lid for extra protection under a worst-case scenario of explosion within the device. See the following video for an intentional blowout test, which shows the method I adopted: YouTube - #81 - VSPB Cell blowout test 1

Best wishes,

Rickoff

Thanks for the tips...

Could you post a picture of your device?

Haven't assembled my case and could probably return some parts!

Regards

Page

Fatman1 · #40 (**permalink**) 05-30-2008, 01:57 PM

I'm just getting about one LPM how on mine but doing lot of reading here and other places, can anyone tell me the pros and cons of NaOH, KOH,NaHCO3, I keep hears about them making different gas by product
Thanks

Tarkus · #41 (**permalink**) 05-30-2008, 03:03 PM

I personally wouldn't be to quick to embrace acrylic for a working unit (in a vehicle), my bench top test/demo tank is acrylic and I think it works fine for static or sheltered applications.

My experience with acrylic in other fabrication projects has been that it doesn't like heat, vibration or many chemical substances especially in a prolonged exposer environment IE.. motor vehicles engine compartment. It gets brittle and will craze (small cracks) when exposed to many chemical or solvent compounds such as lacquer thinner, acetone and I think gasoline.

It also doesn't take impacts as well as PVC and when it does fail, shatters with sharp edges. From a practical building stand point PVC is my preferred choice easy to work with, materials and fittings readily available most anywhere, no special solvents to buy or try and deal with (Weldon-4 can be tricky), and usually much less costly. Drawback is you don't get to watch the pretty bubbles.

Its my opinion that for first time builders PVC pipe is probably best, an experienced fabricator may wish to use Acrylic for observation or demonstration reasons yet I don't see the need for it in practical application.

ABS is also a good starting place, just not many small fittings available, hence requiring more fabrication for the system.

Just my 2 cents worth

David
The test/demo tank is 8"x12"
The PVC cell is 6"x12" and contains 4400sq" of plate area, joe cell configuration(amperage draw is off the chart)

Redmeanie · #42 (**permalink**) 05-30-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarkus

I personally wouldn't be to quick to embrace acrylic for a working unit (in a vehicle), my bench top test/demo tank is acrylic and I think it works fine for static or sheltered applications.

My experience with acrylic in other fabrication projects has been that it doesn't like heat, vibration or many chemical substances especially in a prolonged exposer environment IE.. motor vehicles engine compartment. It gets brittle and will craze (small cracks) when exposed to many chemical or solvent compounds such as lacquer thinner, acetone and I think gasoline.

It also doesn't take impacts as well as PVC and when it does fail, shatters with sharp edges. From a practical building stand point PVC is my preferred choice easy to work with, materials and fittings readily available most anywhere, no special solvents to buy or try and deal with (Weldon-4 can be tricky), and usually much less costly. Drawback is you don't get to watch the pretty bubbles.

Its my opinion that for first time builders PVC pipe is probably best, an experienced fabricator may wish to use Acrylic for observation or demonstration reasons yet I don't see the need for it in practical application.

ABS is also a good starting place, just not many small fittings available, hence requiring more fabrication for the system.

Just my 2 cents worth

David
The test/demo tank is 8"x12"
The PVC cell is 6"x12" and contains 4400sq" of plate area, joe cell configuration(amperage draw is off the chart)

I Agree 100% with you on this!

Fatman1 · #43 (**permalink**) 05-30-2008, 06:14 PM

thanks Pln4472

we have Napa.
well Thanks everyone

so much to read - so little time

Redmeanie · #44 (**permalink**) 05-30-2008, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatman1

I'm just getting about one LPM how on mine but doing lot of reading here and other places, can anyone tell me the pros and cons of NaOH, KOH,NaHCO3, I keep hears about them making different gas by product
Thanks

KOH is what you want to use. It is the most stable, and it is not consumed during the electrolysis. So once you have your cell working at the Target Amperage you just need to add distilled water as the water is consumed, no more KOH. About once a month you want to use the water from your primary bubbler to replenish your cell. This will put back any of the KOH that may have been carried by pressure or steam to your primary bubbler back into your cell.
Every couple of months you need to check your amp draw to confirm you haven't had any MAJOR Changes. About every 6 months it is a good idea to
drain your cell and refill with fresh electrolyte. This is because as you run your Booster it should get more efficient and require less KOH to get the same result.

Hope that helps!

wpage · #45 (**permalink**) 06-03-2008, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarkus

I personally wouldn't be to quick to embrace acrylic for a working unit (in a vehicle), my bench top test/demo tank is acrylic and I think it works fine for static or sheltered applications.

My experience with acrylic in other fabrication projects has been that it doesn't like heat, vibration or many chemical substances especially in a prolonged exposer environment IE.. motor vehicles engine compartment. It gets brittle and will craze (small cracks) when exposed to many chemical or solvent compounds such as lacquer thinner, acetone and I think gasoline.

It also doesn't take impacts as well as PVC and when it does fail, shatters with sharp edges. From a practical building stand point PVC is my preferred choice easy to work with, materials and fittings readily available most anywhere, no special solvents to buy or try and deal with (Weldon-4 can be tricky), and usually much less costly. Drawback is you don't get to watch the pretty bubbles.

Its my opinion that for first time builders PVC pipe is probably best, an experienced fabricator may wish to use Acrylic for observation or demonstration reasons yet I don't see the need for it in practical application.

ABS is also a good starting place, just not many small fittings available, hence requiring more fabrication for the system.

Just my 2 cents worth

David
The test/demo tank is 8"x12"
The PVC cell is 6"x12" and contains 4400sq" of plate area, joe cell configuration(amperage draw is off the chart)

Dave,
Thanks for that. Questions on your picture on the right...
-I looks like your +/- terminals connect thru the sides of the Pipe section. Do you find that better than the top mount usually seen?
-Are you using the verticle plate configuration inside the pipe? Can you tell us more about the structure of your cell core or submit another pic?
Going to take your advice on the no go acrylic solution.
Regards,
Woody

elcman · #46 (**permalink**) 06-03-2008, 08:37 PM

Quick WFC questions:

I've been looking at all of these fantastic models of HHO Water Fuel Cells... most of which seem pretty out of reach for me, but I'll solve that somehow.

Anyway, I'm curious about which one people perceive to be the best solution?

From my reading, I seem to prefer the Stan Meyer's WFC. Which seems like it still has a ways to go since the inventor with the answer was poisoned. (May he rest in peace.) And the others, like the Bob Boyce and other models with a series of plates in cells... they don't tickle me as a the one "bulletproof" solution for HHO generation.

The Stan Meyer's cell, with the switching current, uses a method that seems to be more about resonance than brute force electrolysis. (Which is why I prefer it...) But I'm not sure what is the customary output of either types of cells?

In other words, which one do I invest my time in to maximize my results?

Also, what is the output target LPM in order to run a car, supplement a car, or make your own HHO torch?

I really want to get into this... Imhotep's Bendini fan circuit was a great introduction to this whole universe of possibilities... I'd like to see how much I can learn from it while the energy is flowing.

**~Imhotep~** · #47 (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 05:58 AM

I saw this clip today. Thought it was interesting. I have no details about it. Maybe someone else has some more info. Its most def a step in the right direction.

Quote:

JACKSONVILLE, FL -- The way things run it seems like to do anything you need the right fuel to get going. Many of us feel that pressure at the pump, but maybe not forever.

"I get 100 miles to the ounce on water," says Anthony Brown while talking about his work in progress. "I can run any water, distilled water, drinking water, tap water,"

Brown says he's close to having the answer. He's fixed his car to run on mostly water.

"Right now it's using a little bit of gas. If anything it's getting a fuel vapor. I've got the fuel injection system shut down," says Brown.

CNN - Link

First coast news link

wpage · #48 (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 11:50 PM

[quote=**~Imhotep~**;20085]I saw this clip today. Thought it was interesting. I have no details about it. Maybe someone else has some more info. Its most def a step in the right direction.

That is good news and sure hope its true...

Meanwhile my reality it putting together my little booster. Waiting on a few misc hard to find plumbing parts.

Some questions for some of the Guru's that have knowledge and experience with these automotive HHO systems.
-Has anyone solved the problem of the co2 issue with the "eagle EFIE" solution or the home made circuit board that folks here are talking about?
If so whats best.
-Does this dialed in approach to the co2 issue effectively deal with the lean out fuel ratio that we seek to achive with all this?
Or should spacers be used.
-What seems to be the "best" design for automobile HHO generators the 4" pipe with ss outlet covers? the 3" pipe E cell using the coil? or which?

Regards,
Woody