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  #541  
Old 11-07-2014, 07:31 PM
Burnit0017 Burnit0017 is offline
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QGDversion2 - YouTube

No load, manual test. Works really well. Proceeding to attach PMA.
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  #542  
Old 11-07-2014, 11:16 PM
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Jim Murray

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QGDversion2 - YouTube

No load, manual test. Works really well. Proceeding to attach PMA.
Starting to remind me of a vertical shaft version of Jim Murray's machine here: Mechanical Amplifier by Jim Murray - YouTube
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  #543  
Old 11-08-2014, 01:29 PM
Burnit0017 Burnit0017 is offline
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Hi, thanks for the info. I not sure if I will have better results but it does start real easy.
There is no question about it, the PMA will be powered completely from the falling weights.

I think I found a way to connect the PMA. I will have to fabricate a few long roller bearings. It should take a few days. Good or bad, I will post results when available. Cheers.
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  #544  
Old 11-09-2014, 07:49 AM
marxist marxist is offline
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mounting of alternator

Hi Burnit0017
great to see, that you did not give up on the project. And also great that you continue to publish your findings, which to me seem very interesting and intriguing.

Seeing your latest video
QGDversion2 - YouTube
I was pondering how you will power your alternator with this setup and I think ideally the alternator should be used as one of the two weights - fullfilling two functions: namely acting as a weight and producing electrical power.
It would be great if you had two alternators to use them in place of the two black weights.
Nevertheless as long as you only have one, you may be able to take out one of the weights and replace it with the alternator.
So the alternator would have to be fixed excentrically, in the same way as you mounted each of the two black weights.
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  #545  
Old 11-09-2014, 04:45 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_evSyxl6Z4

Here is what I have so far,Tell me what you think.
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  #546  
Old 11-09-2014, 06:10 PM
Burnit0017 Burnit0017 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genegene View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_evSyxl6Z4

Here is what I have so far,Tell me what you think.
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Hi, I like it. it looks like it will be easy to analyze. If you place your hand on the output pulley; in a safe manner; do you get the impression that it will drive the PMA? I look forward to your results.

When I was rebuilding my project I found a bushing on one of the bearings that may of been acting as a brake when I added more weights.

Thanks for posting.
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  #547  
Old 11-09-2014, 06:14 PM
Burnit0017 Burnit0017 is offline
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Originally Posted by marxist View Post
Hi Burnit0017
great to see, that you did not give up on the project. And also great that you continue to publish your findings, which to me seem very interesting and intriguing.

Seeing your latest video
QGDversion2 - YouTube
I was pondering how you will power your alternator with this setup and I think ideally the alternator should be used as one of the two weights - fullfilling two functions: namely acting as a weight and producing electrical power.
It would be great if you had two alternators to use them in place of the two black weights.
Nevertheless as long as you only have one, you may be able to take out one of the weights and replace it with the alternator.
So the alternator would have to be fixed excentrically, in the same way as you mounted each of the two black weights.

Hi, interesting idea but it seems to be too complex for this attempt. Thanks for posting.
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  #548  
Old 11-10-2014, 10:19 PM
Burnit0017 Burnit0017 is offline
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QGDversion3 - YouTube

video update: I may have to increase the length of the center shaft for more mechanical advantage.
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  #549  
Old 11-14-2014, 11:07 AM
marxist marxist is offline
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cogs

Hi Burnit0017

I am quoting a sentence of yours from one of your posts at Starting gravity wheel project, GRAM, describing the principle of operation of your atempted replication of the Skinner device :
Quote:
...the weights always fall toward the center of gravity but they never reach it because [in the meantime] a small motor will always be turning the center shaft [thus moving the center of gravity further on a circular path] (added by me).
A question or really three question:
The cogwheels you use, how do you fabricate them (laser cut ?) and what material are they made of and what program do you use to initially design (draw) them?
Thanks.
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  #550  
Old 11-14-2014, 12:38 PM
Burnit0017 Burnit0017 is offline
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Woodworking for engineers

Zenbot CNC Routers

http://www.tapplastics.com/product/p...ing_boards/346



Hi, above links is of what I use to fabricate the gears. The video shows my latest results. The noise in the video is a result of a misaligned gear, sorry.

QGD driving PMA - YouTube

The frame was made to small. I did a lot of manual testing with PMA and MPPT circuit. From what I am observing I see no reason to continue with this configuration. Best of luck to everyone working on a similar project. I look forward toward your results.

I am currently working on a different configuration and I will post results when available. Cheers
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  #551  
Old 11-14-2014, 03:29 PM
Burnit0017 Burnit0017 is offline
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Hi, just as a side note. Basically what I observed for my configuration to work will need about 100 pounds per arm, a 1 to 6 gearbox, a PMA with a high output at a low RPM,a MPPT circuit at the PMA output, and a really long center shaft; ten foot long or greater. After all that the output to accept will probably be about 10 amps at 12 volts, minus what it takes to operate the small motor at the input. I hope this helps and corrections are welcome.
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  #552  
Old 11-15-2014, 07:11 PM
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if anyone is interested i have cleaned up this image and removed the watermark as best i can.

imgur: the simple image sharer
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Last edited by dom44; 11-16-2014 at 12:58 AM.
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  #553  
Old 02-03-2015, 09:27 AM
homenergy1 homenergy1 is offline
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My build

My abilities are limited. My access to materials is limited. My funds are limited. But I am trying to build it as much as possible as Skinner built the one in the 1939 video. My head space will require the input shafts to be placed down the right side of the main frame. And I am only building one of the four rotating shafts. Contrary to the pdf published there are great sideways forces as you get things rotating. So my frame is locked in place by the nearby cement structures of my terrace work space.
The big problem is the extreme forces created by the weights and the structures connecting them.
I calculate the small shaft connecting the gimbal and the transition plate will have 420 lbs. Pressing upward on it. Small wonder that the input shafts are 3 to 4 feet long and the pivot point is only 3 1/2 inches from the transition plate.
Also the weights are in the range of 120 lbs. lower and 53 lbs. upper.
My gimbal assembly might not be robust enough for the full weight. For now testing and adjusting with about 1/3 the full weight. Even at this the pressure to lift the upper weight is extreme.
Hmm I am accessing this site via cell phone and can't seem to upload my pictures. I will upliad a video to youtube and then insert the link here.
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  #554  
Old 02-06-2015, 08:59 PM
homenergy1 homenergy1 is offline
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My build 2 with added video link!!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c4Q1nNSY_9s
That is the link to my build so far.
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  #555  
Old 02-11-2015, 09:17 AM
armandino armandino is offline
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ciao, ho appena scaricato la tua immagine, complimenti hai fatto un bellissimo lavoro per me utile. infatti anche io sto lavorando per la realizzazione di un macchinario simile e sono a buon punto, posterò foto e filmato non appena avrò assemblato la struttura. Io penso che la leva in alto sia una leva di Archimede. ho puntato il mio lavoro proprio su questo principio. In pratica la leva anziché lavorare con un movimento verticale per realizzare la sua efficacia, la leva in verticale compie un movimento oscillatorio trasferendo il suo guadagno sulla piastra e successivamente, tramite l'asta verticale. anche essa oscillatoria, al peso in basso a cui è collegato un generatore di corrente.
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  #556  
Old 03-03-2015, 10:06 PM
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An easy way.

Many may have already seen this, but I thought I would post it here anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN79z_TndI8

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  #557  
Old 03-03-2015, 11:17 PM
shylo shylo is offline
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top half

Hi Mag, To me that is just the top half of the skinner device.
The rim is basically the transition plate..?
By adding the lower half I think multiplies the input even more.
I'll be getting back to this in the spring ,since my build is outside.
May even be able to add more stages.
First time I seen that vid Thanks
art
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  #558  
Old 03-07-2015, 09:47 PM
homenergy1 homenergy1 is offline
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Disappointed

I find it instructive that the moderator of this thread tells some members they almost have it right. In several phrases like this he speaks as if he has successfully built a machine that converts the force of gravity into useable torque without having to input the same or greater force. In other words that he has achived a gravity powered overunity machine.
And yet no celebration, no diagrams, no offering of hey guys here it is let's all make these for the benefit of all the world. The last phrase would be the appropriate response of a good hearted individual, a Tesla like individual as opposed to a J.P. Morgan type.
And yet this thread seems all but abandoned.
I have decided to abandon my efforts in building this machine. Although several have made videos explaning how "simple" it is. The actual forces involved are so extreme that construction is far beyond my resources. I am speaking of the mechanical forces on the transition plate as an example.
The top mass is 21kg. Thats about 52 lbs. The leverage of that weight is produced with iys distance of about 10 1/2 inches from the upper input shaft and the top of the lower shaft being about 1/2 inch away. This woild place an upward force of 420 lbs. On the input shaft.
No I can't build a machine with such extreme requirements. And it looks like no one else has done it either.
Tah tah and cheerio fellows.
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  #559  
Old 03-07-2015, 11:52 PM
shylo shylo is offline
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All I can say is "never give up"
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  #560  
Old 03-08-2015, 04:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homenergy1 View Post
I have decided to abandon my efforts in building this machine. Although several have made videos explaning how "simple" it is. The actual forces involved are so extreme that construction is far beyond my resources. I am speaking of the mechanical forces on the transition plate as an example.
The top mass is 21kg. Thats about 52 lbs. The leverage of that weight is produced with iys distance of about 10 1/2 inches from the upper input shaft and the top of the lower shaft being about 1/2 inch away. This woild place an upward force of 420 lbs. On the input shaft.
No I can't build a machine with such extreme requirements. And it looks like no one else has done it either.
Tah tah and cheerio fellows.
I studied the 1939 Video very carefully, in slow motion. I new from that moment that IF the machine really is capable of producing "torque amplification" THEN it isn't necessary to build an exact duplicate of that large machine to achieve the effect. I also realized that their should be nothing special about having 2 stages just to achieve the effect. For one should be able to achieve an amplification effect from either stage IF it works at all.

If it does work then we are looking for the simplest way to achieve the effect.

On the other hand, what I have discovered on the first stage is that as output resistance is applied, this causes the rotating mass to lift and to go behind phase of the top end rotation, and this does indeed require more input torque.

So, how was William able to peal off 1/4" ribbons of steel with just 1/8 horse power motor? Well, I did take note that his ribbon peal bar was turning significantly slower than his input motor. So, it could have all just been an elaborate illusion pulled off by cleaver use of ratios.

But, I won't give up until an accurate input to output torque ratio is taken.
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  #561  
Old 03-08-2015, 08:11 AM
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Skinner details

I have mentioned Skinner used another machine (he had more than one) to machine landing gears for planes during the war.

There was not one single comment or question to me about how I know that.
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  #562  
Old 03-09-2015, 05:53 AM
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New to me

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I have mentioned Skinner used another machine (he had more than one) to machine landing gears for planes during the war.

There was not one single comment or question to me about how I know that.
Hi Aaron

I am new to all of this but I do watch everything you are doing and have shown about this wobbling mechanical device. I have often taken shovels by the handle and spun them with the palm of my hand. Other things to. I was always struck by how easy I could keep some of them going by a tiny movement like a jerky motion to keep it going.

Sometimes it would be a huge piece of steel. I never thought about making it into something usable. But like I said I have noticed how little energy it takes to keep heavy object spinning.

How did you know about the big airplane gear setup? Also are you still advancing with your last setup? Or are you replacing it, or what, I have not seen you post lately. I have more question about another experiment you did and a DVD with the information on it I got from you, but I'll ask you about that some other time on another post somewhere.

The reason I asked is because it seems like you have more to add about this device.

It is good to see you. I know the new site is a bunch of work so let me say thank you for that and pass it along to the other guys for me.

Mike
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  #563  
Old 03-15-2015, 02:07 PM
homenergy1 homenergy1 is offline
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Ok I'll bite.

Well so Aaron, Skinner had another machine and you kmow about it. So if someone asked you how you know about it would your answer shed light on whether the Skinner machine actually can produce overunity? If yes then why wait for the question? If no, then why mention it?
Its possible that with 680 pounds of spinning mass the momentum alone would shave metal, for a while. The above suggestion that it is just a matter of ratio indicates why some people can't discern when a thing is conventional or drawing in additional power.
I don't want to make anyone feel bad. But I do look for candor. Who was that Greek who went around carrying a lantern? If people asked him why he would say he was looking for an honest man.
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  #564  
Old 05-28-2015, 06:29 AM
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Skinner Gravity Power

I've been in contact with William F. Skinner's family for a long time and they are thrilled that awareness about his work is getting out there. Skinner got screwed over by crooked business partners and an attorney way back and was put through the wringer as is the common story. He came up against a lot of retaliation by many "experts" who tried to debunk it but couldn't. It is a very high COP overunity machine as described in the video from British Pathe. We can't verify if the COP was as high as was mentioned or was lower, etc. but it's irrelevant. The machine, in principle, does what is claimed.

Skinner had another machine at his home that he used to power a smaller shop that he used to machine landing gears for the Army Air Core or whatever the military branch would have been at the military base near Miami way back then.

Basically, I have accurately laid out his whole machine from the beginning with the following couple things as exceptions...

1. We cannot verify if the upper lever is indeed pinned to the translation coupler with a set screw - experiments will tell.

2. The "always falling" I mentioned was that the lower weight always fell to the inside incline of the lower shaft and that is accurate. However, another always falling is the fact that when the lower shaft is rotating in an elliptical orbit, which is required, the height of the lower weight does change. It is at the hightest point at the CENTER OF THE ELLIPSE and is and falls towards the EDGES of the elongated parts of the ellipse away from the center - it is at the lowest so it does change height. I did however spell out this fact towards the end of this thread but did not realize this at the beginning of this thread. Neither point seems to be of much interest to anyone.

Anyway, that is how I know about the other machine and more that is not pertinent to the operation of the machine and this will probably be the last input that I will give on this project. When I see others using a mechanism to rotate the upper shaft in an elliptical orbit like I've been doing, I'll be more interested.

It was great to see so many people playing with different aspects of the machine, but all the circular input for the input lever is a limitation and brings the machine into equilibrium.

My interest at this point personally is to see if Jim Murray would be interested in giving a serious analysis of it because he is probably the most qualified to understand it mathematically and otherwise. Personally, I'm not too interested in the math, but validating the principles of operation that have been laid out here quite a few times.

Gravitational potential is being converted to work in this machine and I accept that as an indisputable self-evident fact, the disconnects are absolutely required so that the output is not proportionate or directly connected to the input, etc.
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  #565  
Old 05-29-2015, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
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...the lower shaft is rotating in an elliptical orbit, which is required, the height of the lower weight does change. It is at the hightest point at the CENTER OF THE ELLIPSE and is and falls towards the EDGES of the elongated parts of the ellipse away from the center - it is at the lowest so it does change height. I did however spell out this fact towards the end of this thread but did not realize this at the beginning of this thread...
Hi Aaron,

No offense, but in an earnest effort to understand what is going on, I have studied the video very carefully. I have 21 Video Frames for a full rotation, the first 12 of which are displayed bellow. It does not look like an ellipse to me, on either stage. It looks like a circular orbit. Ill keep working at it though!

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Old 05-30-2015, 03:53 AM
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elliptical orbit

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Originally Posted by MagnaMoRo View Post
Hi Aaron,

No offense, but in an earnest effort to understand what is going on, I have studied the video very carefully. I have 21 Video Frames for a full rotation, the first 12 of which are displayed bellow. It does not look like an ellipse to me, on either stage. It looks like a circular orbit. Ill keep working at it though!
Examine the cross bar mechanism that actually rotates the upper mechanism and it becomes self evident. I posted a full description of what is happening there a few times in this thread.
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Old 05-30-2015, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
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Examine the cross bar mechanism that actually rotates the upper mechanism and it becomes self evident. I posted a full description of what is happening there a few times in this thread.
Ok! I'll let the evidence speak.
Bellow, for the sake of the open source community, I have taken the time to use 20 consecutive frames of the original video and reassembled them into a continuously looped animated .gif image. This allows us to have the best currently available view of the overall machine in action. I have used GIMP to assemble the animation.

Motion picture film was subject to image positioning inconsistencies. So, for stabilization purposes, I have ONLY and as-best-I-could, adjusted the positioning and scaling of the frames to allow for inconsistencies in the original filming.

May all interested study it well and enjoy!

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Old 05-31-2015, 03:09 AM
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Circular Vr. elliptical and linear

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnaMoRo View Post
Ok! I'll let the evidence speak.
Bellow, for the sake of the open source community, I have taken the time to use 20 consecutive frames of the original video and reassembled them into a continuously looped animated .gif image. This allows us to have the best currently available view of the overall machine in action. I have used GIMP to assemble the animation.

Motion picture film was subject to image positioning inconsistencies. So, for stabilization purposes, I have ONLY and as-best-I-could, adjusted the positioning and scaling of the frames to allow for inconsistencies in the original filming.

May all interested study it well and enjoy!

@MagnaMoRo, Hi!
I find your post precisely how I observe it. I find no evidence of linear or elliptical within the video of the machine at work.

Their are other pictures that would make many observation much more difficult to properly interpret but they are NOT a working model fully pictured in toto.
I am not saying these other models did not work. But they are not a model "at work" to visually understand the perspectives in action.

I too have examined the model in operation and also am convinced the first fulcrum to be circular in fact. No matter how factual I observe all its primary fulcrums I find only one that clearly depicts a circular movement. This is all I need in way of conviction. My vision is mine and my conviction is also mine. I don't need anyone telling me not to be dedicated to my own observation and convictions.

I am still building mine in the shop, and am looking at the fulcrum analysis to gauge the height of my machine.

What are your thoughts about these ratios?
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Old 05-31-2015, 04:13 AM
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Circles and Lines

Hi, simple machines can make complex paths, just by combination, elliptical paths made from linear and circular guides. Regards Arto.
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Old 05-31-2015, 07:46 AM
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Skinner machine uses an elliptical orbit, period.

It's right there in front of you. You're looking at it but you don't see it.

I showed you the mechanism in my videos.

You can see the cross bar that goes from the front of the machine - the quadrant closest to the camera and it goes to the back of the machine. It is NOT just going back and forth (left and right).

Well, THAT crossbar is going back and forth (left and right) in a normal oscillation, but what is at the END of that crossbar that the upper input lever is connected to? IT'S RIGHT THERE and that tells the whole story. If you don't see the extra little bar or wheel at the ENDS of the crossbar spinning around independently of the main crossbar, then I'm at a loss for words. I have multiple confirmations by the way so to me, it isn't even debatable but you and others are of course free to believe what you think you see or think you don't see.

Look at the end of the crossbar closest to the camera, you can even see the little white streak going from the right to the left on each rotation of the arm/wheel moving independently of the main crossbar. From a bird's eye view, it is rotating clockwise.

That light streak is NOT some camera imperfection from an old video camera, you are seeing the piece that rotates independently of the main crossbar and that is what the upper shaft is connected to. Examine the FULL movement of it and the upper shaft is rotating in an elliptical orbit.

Your animated gif is clear enough to see it as plain as day.

You can even see it on the rear mechanism furthest from the camera at the back of the machine. Right when the input lever starts to go right, you can see that independently moving arm swinging around and you see a black looking rectangle shape showing that it is more of a bar than a wheel. And when it goes to the left, the opposite side of that little bar swings to the right.

The upper part of the input lever is NOT fixed in place relative to the main oscillating crossbar.

Goto 34:50 of this video:









Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnaMoRo View Post
Ok! I'll let the evidence speak.
Bellow, for the sake of the open source community, I have taken the time to use 20 consecutive frames of the original video and reassembled them into a continuously looped animated .gif image. This allows us to have the best currently available view of the overall machine in action. I have used GIMP to assemble the animation.

Motion picture film was subject to image positioning inconsistencies. So, for stabilization purposes, I have ONLY and as-best-I-could, adjusted the positioning and scaling of the frames to allow for inconsistencies in the original filming.

May all interested study it well and enjoy!

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Last edited by Aaron; 05-31-2015 at 07:49 AM.
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1939, 1939 gravity power, energy, force, free energy, gravity, gravity power, lift, overunity, power, weight, william f skinner, william skinner, skinner, william

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