Energetic Forum  
Facebook Twitter Google+ Pinterest LinkedIn Delicious Digg Reddit WordPress StumbleUpon Tumblr Translate Addthis Aaron Murakami YouTube 2020 ENERGY CONFERENCE - PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!!

2020 Energy Science & Technology Conference
PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!
http://energyscienceconference.com


Go Back   Energetic Forum > >
   

Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #271  
Old 06-27-2014, 04:46 PM
Michael John Nunnerley's Avatar
Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,193
I have posted this on OU.com as well, it seems that nobody is sure how the top drive is made. Maybe I don't either but, I think this is as close as you can get, and you need to look hard at the videos, it's not easy to see, but when you know possibilities of how it can be done, just maybe you can see what I have drawn.

This is just the start, part A the top power input.

regards

Mike
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Skinner top drive A.JPG (98.7 KB, 95 views)
__________________
 
Reply With Quote

Download SOLAR SECRETS by Peter Lindemann
Free - Get it now: Solar Secrets

  #272  
Old 06-27-2014, 04:58 PM
gotoluc gotoluc is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,276
Quote:
Originally Posted by purelyprimitives View Post
There's one thing that I don't think anyone's touched on yet.

Most of the replications so far are single sections of Mr. Skinner's machine. Goldpro is the only one who has built a double unit and if you look at his, you will see the point I am about to make.

I believe the bottom tall weights on Mr. Skinner's machine are NOT free to fall on their own. In the original clip, you can see Mr. Skinner moving one slightly. But what you don't see is that the other 3 must also be moving because they are all mechanically linked together most likely with sprockets and chain to a central axle at the bottom of the machine. (actually if you look at around the 30 second mark you can see another arm moving as he moves the one)

You can see in the video that opposite sets of weights are always 180 degrees out of phase. Or adjacent sets are always 90 degrees apart. If they weren't mechanically timed this way the unbalance would tear the machine apart.

What that means is that the weights are either 'falling' in pairs or all at once with 2 falling to the outside and two falling to the inside, but not individually.

Assuming this is the case, its possible at startup that it could take several seconds to overcome the inertia and get the bottom weights moving and synchronized with the top weights. I watched the video again and there really isn't a portion that shows it starting up where you can see the bottom weights as well.
I agree with what you are pointing out and there could be more.
Here is what I've posted at the Overunity forum topic when sharing my thoughts on the UPPER mechanical movement of the upper levers.

one thing is quite clear to me now is, the actions of the two 180 degrees out of phase lever sets would return a push on the other set. Only mechanical friction losses should be the input losses.

This Mr. Skinner was smart!... If we can get this to work we should honor him with Doctor of mechanics and gravity.

Now, the problem I have is I would need a second build to prove this 180 degree out of phase push pull action is what's needed but I don't think I can afford to make another set

Luc
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #273  
Old 06-27-2014, 06:13 PM
Michael John Nunnerley's Avatar
Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,193
Here is the middle drive, B.

regards

Mike
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Skinner middle drive B.JPG (60.0 KB, 35 views)
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #274  
Old 06-27-2014, 06:39 PM
purelyprimitives's Avatar
purelyprimitives purelyprimitives is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotoluc View Post
I agree with what you are pointing out and there could be more.
Here is what I've posted at the Overunity forum topic when sharing my thoughts on the UPPER mechanical movement of the upper levers.

one thing is quite clear to me now is, the actions of the two 180 degrees out of phase lever sets would return a push on the other set. Only mechanical friction losses should be the input losses.

This Mr. Skinner was smart!... If we can get this to work we should honor him with Doctor of mechanics and gravity.

Now, the problem I have is I would need a second build to prove this 180 degree out of phase push pull action is what's needed but I don't think I can afford to make another set

Luc
Hi Luc,

Unfortunately that doesn't appear to be the case.

If Arto's drawing is correct and it seems that it is based on viewing the original newsreel clip. And assuming we are talking about a symmetrical elliptical rotational pattern, all 4 weights reach one of their minor axis of the ellipse at the same time. 2 on the inside and 2 on the outside.

Each pair of opposing weights apply equal and opposite force at the same time canceling the forces. There wouldn't be any push/pull force that would be transferred.

This would seem to be done by necessity to eliminate destructive oscillation.

Alternately, if the opposing weights were 90 degrees out of phase, when one weight was being accelerated through the minor axis, the other would be midpoint and the force could then be transferred to that weight. And the oscillation would pass back and forth. However, you would need to compensate for the out-of-balance situation.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #275  
Old 06-27-2014, 11:02 PM
Dave Q Dave Q is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Whangarei, New Zealand
Posts: 17
William F. Skinner - 1939 Gravity Power

There is no need to attempt to replicate Mr Skinner's device to the last detail.
All that's required is an understanding of the principles involved.
Personally, I believe that they are basically very simple, and I've tried to illustrate them in my schematic drawing.
It is very easy to make an off-centre pivoted weight revolve around its axis.
When the weight is mounted on an inclined shaft, the axis of the shaft only needs to be lifted from its "rest" position, and gravity will apply a turning moment, or torque, via the weight, to the shaft.
The weight can be kept in motion either by turning the upper end of the shaft in a circle (large or small) with an elliptical drive arrangement, or by
simply oscillating a vertical shaft from side to side in its vertical plane.
When I first watched the 1939 movie clip, I noticed both of these methods in
use.
The upper weight being driven by a simple reciprocating drive, and the lower
weight, driven elliptically by the now rotating upper weight.
I have replicated this arrangement very easily with various Meccano models.

An interesting feature of this mechanism is the fact that loading the output drive shaft results in a gravitational response. In other words, if the system is unloaded, the rotating mass is simply acting like a flywheel, storing kinetic energy. Unloaded, the upper weight is chasing the lower.
However, when a load is presented to the output, the upper driving weight starts to overtake the lower weight. This increases the angle of lift and gravity lends a hand. The greater the degree of lift, the greater the gravitational torque produced.
I believe that the combination of leverage and gravitational torque are the keys to extracting over unity power from this device.
I will upload another video to youtube, which I hope will make things abundantly clear :-)
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #276  
Old 06-28-2014, 12:31 AM
goldpro goldpro is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Q View Post

An interesting feature of this mechanism is the fact that loading the output drive shaft results in a gravitational response. In other words, if the system is unloaded, the rotating mass is simply acting like a flywheel, storing kinetic energy. Unloaded, the upper weight is chasing the lower.
However, when a load is presented to the output, the upper driving weight starts to overtake the lower weight. This increases the angle of lift and gravity lends a hand. The greater the degree of lift, the greater the gravitational torque produced.
I believe that the combination of leverage and gravitational torque are the keys to extracting over unity power from this device.
I will upload another video to youtube, which I hope will make things abundantly clear :-)
Dave,
That sounds to me very much like the way I understand Tesla's AC
motor works. When a load is applied to it the "slip" becomes greater and the current/amperage goes up and this creates a stronger magnetic field which applies more power and the motor speeds up to compensate for the applied load. All that happens in a fraction of a second I think.

Mike also mentioned this is how it works also.

Looking forward to that video.

Tom
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #277  
Old 06-28-2014, 12:51 AM
Dave Q Dave Q is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Whangarei, New Zealand
Posts: 17
I've just uploaded a video which I do hope will clarify things.
After all, a picture is worth a thousand words
This is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw3l...ature=youtu.be
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #278  
Old 06-28-2014, 01:08 AM
Dave Q Dave Q is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Whangarei, New Zealand
Posts: 17
Thanks, Tom!!!

Professor Eric Laithewaite was vilified by his peers for demonstrating gyroscopic effects which appeared to contradict Newton.
As Laithewaite well understood, there was no contradiction, only a basic misinterpretation of the natural laws regarding the conservation of energy.
The late professor could see that the relationship between inertial and gravitational forces also applied to electricity and magnetism.

I had noticed this Skinner device effect as a youngster (1950's), and overlooked its potential. I had built a small machine which propelled itself by what I called "directional imbalance". (In contradiction to "every action has an equal and opposite reaction") I was interested to learn recently, that the good professor had built a similar device in his latter years.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #279  
Old 06-28-2014, 01:19 AM
purelyprimitives's Avatar
purelyprimitives purelyprimitives is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 169
Dave,

Thanks for the video. Yours, as well as others solidified my main concern about this device which is that it's possible to overload it and have it fall out of sync which is a show-stopper for me.

Best regards,
Charlie
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #280  
Old 06-28-2014, 04:47 AM
drak drak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Q View Post
I've just uploaded a video which I do hope will clarify things.
After all, a picture is worth a thousand words
This is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw3l...ature=youtu.be

Thank you!
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #281  
Old 06-28-2014, 09:50 AM
Michael John Nunnerley's Avatar
Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Q View Post
I've just uploaded a video which I do hope will clarify things.
After all, a picture is worth a thousand words
This is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw3l...ature=youtu.be
Dave thanks for that demo, I think you have explained better than me, especially the fact that it is self regulating from free wheeling to being under load.

I hope you don't mind me saying a few things extra, seems you are an old time engineer like me, my years were the 70's up to now, I'm 63.

I have found that the top drive is very important, it seems you just have a simple lever movement, that works as you have demonstrated but it does not completly disconnect the center weight from the drive. In the main video of skinner at the 33sec mark, the motor is running but nothing moves, especially the levers, this was very important for me to understand what he had done at the top drive. He basicly only wanted a slight push into the system every 180 degrees and when not giving that push it was free wheeling as far as drive was concerned. See my drawing on how he did that, earlier I posted in this thread, that was self regulating as well, really quite clever.

The second thing is I don't think you have a gimbal system of support for that top lever, also the length ratio is important (LIKE ALL LEVERS USING AN OFFSET PIVOT POINT). Now I know with what you have you are showing basic principles and that is great, it helps all to understand what he was doing, please don't get me wrong on what I'm saying.

On my second drawing of the middle setup I showed that the top of the bottom shaft changes length and the system possibly used by Skinner. This is just an idea of mine, he also may have used a ball and socket, but for length movement it might have been freely bushed into the transition plate, I think both would do the same job, I think only you and I realised just what was happening at that point, without allowing for that the thing would jam up

I have not drawn the bottom section yet, it is coming, the CV joint is infact a ball hex joint, thats why you can't see it in the video. It is like the end of an allen key formed into a ball shape but maintaining the hex form on the ball, this goes into a female straight hex. There is not much angle at that drive point and this just might have been how he sync'd the four weights together and be able to use not chains but belts to the output drive (that is pure speculation, but logical).

More to come, and thanks again Dave, really well done

regards

Mike
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #282  
Old 06-28-2014, 11:12 AM
Michael John Nunnerley's Avatar
Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,193
This is the bottom drive C, please note the relation of the weights (position), they are in sync.

regards

Mike
Attached Images
File Type: jpg skinner bottom drive C.JPG (87.2 KB, 36 views)
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #283  
Old 06-28-2014, 11:42 AM
Dave Q Dave Q is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Whangarei, New Zealand
Posts: 17
William F Skinner - 1939 Gravity Power

Thanks for your helpful information, Michael.

I'll be studying your drawings as soon as I've written this.
I've never been involved in on-line forums until now, and I must confess that I haven't spent time reading through or watching the material which has been posted.
It makes good sense to give the top drive a "nudge" only at the 180* point.
I can see that if the four assemblies were driven by a crankshaft with four 90* cranks, the only effort needed from the input motor would be to overcome the minimal bearing friction, as the 180* "lifting" moments would be completely balanced out.
I guess being produced the same year as the movie clip makes me an old engineer too
Again, my top lever is simply pivoted, not gimballed as the drive is perfectly linear. I'm familiar with the hexagonal ball joint, and in hindsight could have used a ball-end allen key and matching bolt instead of my Chinese CV joint.
I may well be wrong, but I'd surmised that the four assemblies would be connected at the base of the machine by geared shafting.
When I build a bigger version, I'll try to source a scrapped rear axle from a quad bike.
This will be lighter than a car axle and already has all the fittings needed
Thanks again for your input, Michael.

Regards,

Dave.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #284  
Old 06-28-2014, 11:47 AM
Michael John Nunnerley's Avatar
Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,193
Your welcome Dave

Here for those that can't get their head around the shifting center of gravity relationship, a drawing, I hope it explains it.

regards

Mike
Attached Images
File Type: jpg skinner relationship of gravity to mass.JPG (36.8 KB, 39 views)
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #285  
Old 06-28-2014, 12:22 PM
purelyprimitives's Avatar
purelyprimitives purelyprimitives is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael John Nunnerley View Post
I have found that the top drive is very important, it seems you just have a simple lever movement, that works as you have demonstrated but it does not completly disconnect the center weight from the drive. In the main video of skinner at the 33sec mark, the motor is running but nothing moves, especially the levers, this was very important for me to understand what he had done at the top drive. He basicly only wanted a slight push into the system every 180 degrees and when not giving that push it was free wheeling as far as drive was concerned. See my drawing on how he did that, earlier I posted in this thread, that was self regulating as well, really quite clever.
I think this was discussed earlier and it was agreed that this would be a simple friction clutch so not to overload the motor from startup. You can see his hand on the actuator lever just after this.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #286  
Old 06-28-2014, 12:29 PM
gotoluc gotoluc is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Q View Post
It makes good sense to give the top drive a "nudge" only at the 180* point.
I can see that if the four assemblies were driven by a crankshaft with four 90* cranks, the only effort needed from the input motor would be to overcome the minimal bearing friction, as the 180* "lifting" moments would be

Regards,

Dave.
Hello Dave,

glad you see the benefits if the top drive had another unit 180* out of phase.

I see you have the means to monitor current to your prime mover. I also do this and and have been using it to see if gravity is in fact being added to the system.

My video demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvy7zuWKaF4

Can you note the current under no load on your output shaft and then load it and note if there is a change.

Thank you for your time

Luc
__________________
 

Last edited by gotoluc; 06-28-2014 at 12:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #287  
Old 06-28-2014, 01:03 PM
purelyprimitives's Avatar
purelyprimitives purelyprimitives is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 169
Its been stated that the key to Mr. Skinner's device is the falling and raising of the weights during rotation.

Here's a challenge: Can anyone show conclusively that this is actually happening at 60 RPM? If it isn't, then these mechanisms are just rotating on their respective horizontal planes and are simple flywheels and there's no 'secret' here.

Best regards,
Charlie
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #288  
Old 06-28-2014, 01:19 PM
Michael John Nunnerley's Avatar
Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by purelyprimitives View Post
I think this was discussed earlier and it was agreed that this would be a simple friction clutch so not to overload the motor from startup. You can see his hand on the actuator lever just after this.
Sorry NO, that is not the case

Regards

Mike
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #289  
Old 06-28-2014, 01:38 PM
Michael John Nunnerley's Avatar
Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,193
@purelyprimatives

I think I have done that, post 284, or you need more explination? If your not an engineer then I think you need to try and understand what happens if you move a reference point, there are plenty of place on the internet to learn about this.

The example I have given is just for that, what happens when you move the gravity reference point, I think it is very clear.

Find yourself a bicycle wheel and place it horizontal suspended from a string from the ceiling by the center axis only (thats where the bearing is if you did not know). Now put on the rim a channel that a ball bearing can run in on the full circumference of the wheel (the upper part). Put the ball bearing in the channel and wobble the wheel slowly in a uniform fashion (thats like a disc dropped on the table and does a wobble until it stops flat on the table). Also look up centripetal and centrifugal forces and learn what they are, this will give you another aspect to the DUT, with this you may understand why it self regulates for torque, which I am sure is going to come up in the future.

regards

Mike
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #290  
Old 06-28-2014, 02:04 PM
Michael John Nunnerley's Avatar
Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,193
Dave, a man under my own heart

The Incredible Genius Of Eric Laithwaite

regards

Mike
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #291  
Old 06-28-2014, 04:20 PM
ZeroMassInertia ZeroMassInertia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Burgettstown Pa.
Posts: 55
Mike Prof. Laithwaite has several videos on Youtube enjoy.
eric laithwaite - Ask.com YouTube Search
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #292  
Old 06-28-2014, 04:45 PM
Cisco Cisco is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 5
Dave's video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Q View Post
I've just uploaded a video which I do hope will clarify things.
After all, a picture is worth a thousand words
This is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw3l...ature=youtu.be
And a video is worth more than a thousand pictures when it puts them all in motion. Thank you immensely, Dave, for your highly instructive model, and your observation of the significant difference between the unloaded "flywheel" mode and the loaded mode that produces increased torque.

As for Charlie's show-stopping concern, any machine can be stopped by overloading it. After all, with relatively little brake pressure, I can overpower my car engine resulting in a car-stopper. But I wouldn't then conclude that the engine is no good or underpowered.
What's important is the appropriate match between the machine and its load (or the car speed and its gear selection for optimum rpm so that the engine does not labor unduly).
What's different about this machine is that--unlike the car where the brakes and engine oppose one another--the load and the machine matched to synchronous parameters will actually reinforce one another! If this anomaly can be further verified through replication, it's a game-changer.

Now Dave, could you please connect a small generator such as a bicycle wheel generator to your output shaft and measure the output?
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #293  
Old 06-28-2014, 07:19 PM
goldpro goldpro is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael John Nunnerley View Post
I have posted this on OU.com as well, it seems that nobody is sure how the top drive is made. Maybe I don't either but, I think this is as close as you can get, and you need to look hard at the videos, it's not easy to see, but when you know possibilities of how it can be done, just maybe you can see what I have drawn.

This is just the start, part A the top power input.

regards

Mike
Mike,
From how you wrote about this top drive over on the other forum I think it might work, maybe, but consider these points***

***You mention that you have to give the top weight a push to get the mechanism to "engage" and start moving the lever rods otherwise it just spins the large round plate and the 3 bearings round and round with no effect on the lever rods. how would the other 3 top weights be kept synchronized so they are all in step with each other?

***I'm sure the lever Mr. Skinner grabs when he first walks over to the machine at the start of the video is the control for the flat belt shifting fork that you can see half way up the lever in the ebay picture. This would shift the vertical flat belt side to side on the fast and loose pulley system way up at the top.
This would act as a clutch of sorts to gradually start the machine.

At 10 seconds into the video keep your eye on the vertical flat belt as it goes around the pulley on the same shaft as the pulley that's driven by the cotton thread. When Skinner pulls the lever back you can actually see the flat belt shift over on that pulley. That pulley is wider than the belt so the belt can move sideways on it. The flat belt moves towards skinner/away from the machine frame.

Later, when he takes the cotton thread off.. note the belt is back in the position on the pulley that is closest to the machine frame (film must have been edited) . This means that up top, the belt is on the "fast" pulley (the one connected to the shaft rather than to the "loose" one that isn't connected and just spins). That may be why when he moves the top weight with his hand that flat belt pulley (the one in front of his forehead) turns.

*** I think the whole linkage from the top weight, up through the lever rods, through whatever gearing or mechanism is up top, then through the flat belt and down to that pulley is locked together (apart from the "clutch").

Aaron says not necessarily so, as the lever rod's bottom tip moves when he moves the weight with his hand and this movement would transfer back downstream all the way to the pulley. This may be so, but only if we use his newer idea of the bicycle wheel type ellipse maker I think. If the upper mechanism is like the way you have drawn it with 3 places where there is a bearing allowing a very loose connection of the large disk, cam, and lever rod top then I don't think the motion of the lever rod tip would transfer all the way back to the pulley. Too many pivots and bars to absorb the motion.

Also, as I already mentioned, I don't think the lever rod tip swings or ellipses at all while he moves the weight with his hand. If it does move it may only be 1/4" or so....not enough to make that pulley turn as much as it does or make the other top weights move. I think the lever rod tip and translation plate are locked together and that the twisting motion of the weight is what "turns" or "funnels" the lever rod motion all the way back to the flat belt pulley. skinner's machine might simply have enough mechanical advantage built into it to move the translation plates/top weights in a circle and it will still work fine.

***at 19 seconds I don't think skinner touches the top weight bar with his forearm like I think you mentioned to Luc. his arm looks too far way to me.


***What do you think is the purpose of the lever skinner grabs with his hand ?

Also as Aaron has pointed out all this is not really important as the main principle can be produced in lots of different ways one of which Dave has done.

I might never know how skinner built his but I too would like to figure it out as much as possible as it is a valuable teaching tool.

***also consider in the ebay pic up in the top section I can "see" what may be 6 or 7 vertical "shafts" whose ends are in pillow block bearings that may have gears on them to transfer the top drive from the large 5 spoke flat belt pulley to the lever rods.

As for watching the video to see what is happening up at the top...I've given up...I can see anything I want to see up there....too uncertain of what is really going on there.

Luc: maybe if you move the top of your lower weight shaft pillow block bearing farther away from the square tubing it will work better. that will lean the weight over farther giving more of an incline for the bottom weight to swing around on. In other words put a spacer block between the bearing and the tubing and connect them back together with 8" long bolts or so.
I don't know what Aaron means when he says it's not at the correct right angle. the angle looks ok to me...it already is at 90*...just not out far enough. ??

I hope all this banging away on the keyboard has been helpful.
As always I may be completely wrong.
best to build things... back to the meccano.
Tom
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #294  
Old 06-28-2014, 08:26 PM
h2ocommuter's Avatar
h2ocommuter h2ocommuter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Fresno Ca,
Posts: 147
Send a message via Skype™ to h2ocommuter
Ok there are no reversals in this machine. The weights are only moving down an incline which so happens to be in a circle. All that is happening is this circle controls that % of incline. The angle of the Drive weight Lever controls the velocity of the RPM.

I am building a 5 weight unit about 2' tall.

I will upload videos analysis and pictures.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #295  
Old 06-28-2014, 08:35 PM
purelyprimitives's Avatar
purelyprimitives purelyprimitives is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael John Nunnerley View Post
Sorry NO, that is not the case

Regards

Mike
Please refer to Tom (goldpro)'s response #293.

If you still disagree please explain how Tom is wrong.

Thanks,
Charlie
__________________
 

Last edited by purelyprimitives; 06-29-2014 at 04:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #296  
Old 06-28-2014, 08:42 PM
purelyprimitives's Avatar
purelyprimitives purelyprimitives is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael John Nunnerley View Post
@purelyprimatives

I think I have done that, post 284, or you need more explination? If your not an engineer then I think you need to try and understand what happens if you move a reference point, there are plenty of place on the internet to learn about this.
I've been an engineer for over 30 years.

Your drawing (I assume) depicts a centrally fixed tilting ellipse with a ball rolling around it. The ellipse tilts and the ball 'rolls downhill' seeking the lowest point. As the ellipse is continually tilted in a circle, the ball follows the ever changing angle of the ramp. Is that correct?

But in your drawing, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the ellipse does not rotate but only tilts. If so, where in Mr. Skinner's machine is this same fixed tilting plate? One that is not rotating but only tilts.

From what I see, the weights are rotating around a rotating axle which is not the same frame of reference as your drawing. Do you agree?

Charlie

PS I look forward to any video from anyone showing the weights rising and falling. Should be simple right?
__________________
 

Last edited by purelyprimitives; 06-29-2014 at 03:59 AM. Reason: Edited for clarity
Reply With Quote
  #297  
Old 06-28-2014, 09:07 PM
purelyprimitives's Avatar
purelyprimitives purelyprimitives is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
As for Charlie's show-stopping concern, any machine can be stopped by overloading it. After all, with relatively little brake pressure, I can overpower my car engine resulting in a car-stopper. But I wouldn't then conclude that the engine is no good or underpowered.
My point was more along the lines of it falling out of sync. A car engine won't fall out of sync but this device will.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #298  
Old 06-29-2014, 09:03 AM
Michael John Nunnerley's Avatar
Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by purelyprimitives View Post
I think this was discussed earlier and it was agreed that this would be a simple friction clutch so not to overload the motor from startup. You can see his hand on the actuator lever just after this.
That might well be a slipping clutch, that would make sense.

My point is there is a 1/8 hp motor at fairly high rpm it seems, it is then driving a geared transition box to a flat belt drive, OK there is probably a slipping clutch, this would make sense, but I am thinking that it was more to get the drive in sync with those top levers (which are mainly moved by the center weights). Once in sync the drive applies a little push every 180 degrees and nothing more. If it was driving directly those levers, I don't think that thin thread would take it, do you?

To get the machine running I think for sure he had to spin around at least one of the center weights so as it would mesh with the top of the lever and drive.

The whole point is the output does not affect the input, if it did then that cord would snap, that is very clear.

regards

Mike
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #299  
Old 06-29-2014, 09:24 AM
Michael John Nunnerley's Avatar
Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by purelyprimitives View Post
I've been an engineer for over 30 years.

Your drawing (I assume) depicts a centrally fixed tilting ellipse with a ball rolling around it. The ellipse tilts and the ball 'rolls downhill' seeking the lowest point. As the ellipse is continually tilted in a circle, the ball follows the ever changing angle of the ramp. Is that correct?

It is not an ellipse, it is a circle which is a wheel, which is not turning, only a circumference change of reference to the center axis.

But in your drawing, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the ellipse does not rotate but only tilts. If so, where in Mr. Skinner's machine is this same fixed tilting plate? One that is not rotating but only tilts.

Again it is not an ellipse in that reference drawing, also the bottom of the bottomshaft is not really an ellipse, an ellipse is about as close as we can get as an explination, in reality it is 3 dimentional, it is forever changing in 3 planes. The top of that bottom weight is forever wanting to fall over, that is why it is so high (long).

From what I see, the weights are rotating around a rotating axle which is not the same frame of reference as your drawing. Do you agree?

Explain better please, as I do not know what you are talking about!

Charlie

PS I look forward to any video from anyone showing the weights rising and falling. Should be simple right?
Regards

Mike
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #300  
Old 06-29-2014, 09:36 AM
Michael John Nunnerley's Avatar
Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,193
Seems someone has looked up what a flywheel is and it's properties, maybe looking up also counter weights on cams might be a good idea too

Does anyone know which is applicable to this system of Skinner? maybe neither?

regards

Mike
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1939, 1939 gravity power, energy, force, free energy, gravity, gravity power, lift, overunity, power, weight, william f skinner, william skinner, skinner, william

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Please consider supporting Energetic Forum with a voluntary monthly subscription.

Choose your voluntary subscription

For one-time donations, please use the below button.


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v1.4.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2007-2015 Copyright - Energetic Forum - All Rights Reserved

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator

Tesla Chargers