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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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  #31  
Old 05-03-2008, 01:58 PM
Greg Slabaugh Greg Slabaugh is offline
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Aaron I found this site just a little while ago and read your article about the small ceramic magnets. I was wondering did you put the magnets on the fuel line so they repel one another or do they attract one another I suspect that one was on top and the other one directly underneath. I've been trying to work on some ideas to increase gas mileage another idea I've been working on is increasing the temperature of the fuel going into the engine. Greg
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  #32  
Old 05-04-2008, 04:57 AM
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magnets on fuel line

Hi Greg,

I put the magnets on one side of the fuel line without having one on the other side attracting or repelling. They were only on the rubber hosing. I used round ceramic ones from Radio Shack and they were about 1/2" diameter.

You'll probably do well with the fuel heating.

I would also do something with any oxygen sensor setup you have like what Redmeanie is sharing.
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  #33  
Old 05-17-2008, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
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Iron fuel line is standard in the industry now, and may well have been mandated to prevent the fuel magnetizers from working. Automobile engines use very little iron anymore, so it is curious that the fuel line is iron when there are numerous braided plastic tubing materials available that can handle the pressure and are probably cheaper.

I just checked out with my car mechanic friend a number of high pressure fuel tubes on various Japanese, Korean and European cars. Virtually all of the new cars we checked on have rubber hose with plastic tubing inside.

Two problems I see with those fuel line is the fact that they're not flexible (they're made exactly to go to fuel injection nozzles) and they have a few bends on them so slipping on the ring magnets will probably pose a significant problem geometry-wise because in order to slip on the magnets they have to have a central opening large and that would significantly reduce the magnetic flux in the center. On the other hand one could use NdFeB magnets to get appropriate weak magnetic flux in the tube center.

The other problem is that those fuel lines have molded pressure connectors (I don't know the exact English term) on their endings in order to fit them to the nozzles. The problem is that those connectors are even larger than the fuel line itself so the magnet should be even larger.

As far as I see the only problem with testing this concept is the practical way to mount ring magnets.
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  #34  
Old 05-20-2008, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lighty View Post
I just checked out with my car mechanic friend a number of high pressure fuel tubes on various Japanese, Korean and European cars. Virtually all of the new cars we checked on have rubber hose with plastic tubing inside.

Two problems I see with those fuel line is the fact that they're not flexible (they're made exactly to go to fuel injection nozzles) and they have a few bends on them so slipping on the ring magnets will probably pose a significant problem geometry-wise because in order to slip on the magnets they have to have a central opening large and that would significantly reduce the magnetic flux in the center. On the other hand one could use NdFeB magnets to get appropriate weak magnetic flux in the tube center.

The other problem is that those fuel lines have molded pressure connectors (I don't know the exact English term) on their endings in order to fit them to the nozzles. The problem is that those connectors are even larger than the fuel line itself so the magnet should be even larger.

As far as I see the only problem with testing this concept is the practical way to mount ring magnets.
Hi Lighty!
I think it would be easy to put 2 to 6 ceramic bar magnets around your fuel line by taping them together as Jetijs did or just stick them to the plastic with super-glue gel & then use nylon ties to hold them in place as soon as the superglue sets; or you could use Velcro instead of plastic ties.
As for using rubber fuel lines I took a piece of 5/16", put 120lbs. of pressure in it & heated it with a 700 degree heat gun for 10 min.(until the rubber was smoking) with no visible effect on the hose; that should replace any fuel line I know of with no problems. I used to have a Ford E-350 truck with a 350 v-8 engine (fuel injected). The fuel filter was in line & attached in the middle of the steel fuel line with 2 short pieces of rubber fuel line & 4 hose clamps (O.E.M.) I agree with Peter the steel lines & fancy fuel filter arrangements are mostly to thwart attempts to use magnets(and also to make repairs,etc. more difficult).
I hope you get the magnets on shortly & post results. You can get those ceramic bar magnets at Home Depot If you have one close.
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  #35  
Old 05-20-2008, 11:47 AM
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@ANTIQUER

Well, personally I do not believe in conspiracy theory related to the fuel lines in cars. As I said- I haven't find a single iron reinforced hose in my Korean car and in most new Japanese and European cars. Sorry but evidences doesn't support that theory.

As for the magnets there are some things to consider- just taping a few magnets won't give you homogenous magnetic field and you will get a number of smaller reversed polarity field between the primary ones. That 's why I suggested using a ferrite tube in order to equalize and homogenize those fields to some extent.

As for the magnets- I'm not from the US but since my friend have a small company importing magnets for industry I have easy and cheap access to various forms and strength magnets (mostly NdFeB I'm afraid).

Regarding measurement of results I'm afraid it simply cannot be done reliably installing the system on the car engine especially the ones that uses car computer to compensate for various outside parameters. One would have to use test-bench measurements (I do have access to that equipment but simply don't have time to make it happen) or using simpler methods- one could use portable electrical generator. It always have constant load (to be exact it has to be used without any load) and the main parameters don't change with time.

For example I would fire up the generator (without any load connected and without magnets added to the fuel line), wait for 5-10 minutes for engine to reach working temperature and then I would add a fuel to the exactly marked level in the reservoir (it would help if the reservoir is transparent but it isn't necessary one can easily use a dipstick). Then, after a precise amount of time (60 minutes at least in order to allow for significant difference to aggregate) I would turn off the generator and add fuel to the previously marked level while measuring precisely how much fuel was added. After that I would add magnets on the fuel line and repeat the exactly same procedure as in the first case. Two experiments would have to be done immediately one after another in the same location in order to prevent the change in atmosphere barometric pressure and temperature to affect the results. Several runs of both measurement would be needed in order to establish at least some statistical relevance. The same batch of fuel would also need to be used for all the measurements etc. Then, and only then you can get at least somewhat precise measurement while reducing outside variables as much as possible.
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  #36  
Old 07-22-2010, 10:31 PM
brkooduh66 brkooduh66 is offline
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make your own Magnetic Fuel Saver on the cheep

Go to McMaster-Carr:
1- 54605K34, Low Pressure SAE Fuel Hose 3/8" ID, 5/8" OD, 50 PSI, 2 ft
2- 5856K4, High-Temp Ceramic Ring Magnet 1.08"OD X .597"ID, 1/4" Thick, .75 Pull lbs, 32 ea
3- 5388K16, Worm-Drive Hose Clamp 7/16" to 25/32" Range, 2 pack of 10

I bought 2 feet of hose, and 32 rings, and 20 clamps for a total of $25.50. Enough materials to build 8 of you own Magnetic Fuel Savers on the cheep. Use one, and set up your family and friends for $3.20 each.

Cut a 3 inch piece of tube squeeze 4 rings over the tubing (all facing same direction...i left 1/2" between each ring). put a hose clamp on each end. install it somewhere in your fuel line close to the carberator as you can, NORTH pole towards the carb (your choice how you get it inline)

You are welcome,
brkooduh66
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  #37  
Old 07-23-2010, 01:39 AM
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If your car has a carb, I don't doubt this could be helpful...for modern day ECU driven vehicles with STOICH so tightly adhered too by the computer it would be very hard for this to make a significant gain.

Anyone else think different?
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  #38  
Old 07-24-2010, 07:51 AM
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A Study Of Magnetic Effects On The Physicochemical Properties Of Individual Eydrocarb

Hi

This study might be useful, the author claims that magnetic fields can decrease the viscosity of a hydrocarbon fuel.

Elias
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 43_2_DALLAS_03-98_0216.pdf (146.9 KB, 110 views)
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  #39  
Old 07-25-2010, 01:38 AM
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Elias Thanks man!
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  #40  
Old 08-11-2010, 03:05 PM
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amtmag

you can see this product on the website:AMT Magnetics Co.,Ltd.Magnetic Permanent,Permanent Magnet.Rare Earth Magnet,Magnetic Tools
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  #41  
Old 02-20-2011, 10:24 PM
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Magnetic Fuel Saver | Fuel Treatment with Magnets

Here's my first post on this topic at my blog and more to come. I hope
everyone finds it informative.

Magnetic Fuel Saver | Debunking Mainstream Pseudoscience | Aaron Murakami's Blog
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  #42  
Old 03-18-2011, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
Here's my first post on this topic at my blog and more to come. I hope
everyone finds it informative.

Magnetic Fuel Saver | Debunking Mainstream Pseudoscience | Aaron Murakami's Blog
Hi,
nice article over there, I have submitted a reply asking for more information about the actual implementation.

Can you shed some light on this please?

Do we need to achieve alternating magnetic fields by placing the magnets in this order:

N S N S N S
FUEL LINE
S N S N S N

Or is it enough to just have one pole like this:

NN
SS
FUEL LINE


or

SS
NN
FUEL LINE


Which is the most efficient method? Also what magnets are best to be used?

Thanks in advance!
-Nik
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  #43  
Old 05-10-2011, 10:20 AM
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Arrow magnetic fuel enhancer leedskalnin style

Hello to you all
Bit of an old thread .

Maybe a stupid idea but........

Has anyone tried a (modified) version of the leedskalnin pmh on a fuel line ?
The theory on that is that individual north and south magnets are flowing inside the system and leaving and entering the system continuously.

Just an idea :
Build the pmh as normal but instead of a massive "soft"' iron bar do that with a hollow thick pipe so the flux path is created around a fuel line.
What i mean is mount the fuel line inside of the whole pmh following the path of the magnetic current .

Like the model of emery but use a thick pipe bend in a u shape
cover the ends with a thick iron bar and drill holes at the points where the two ends of the u shape meet and touch the bar.
Feed the fuel line throe the whole pmh north to south or south to north.


Anyone tried this yet?

Again ,may be a stupid idea but in my own observations on the pmh it seems that the forces involved are somewhat a sort of a living thing and since fuel is a ""dead"" fossil .....

It maybe as weird as the joe cell story ,there is more to these sytems than meet the "(educated)'' eye /ear /nose .......

Greetings from Holland

Yeron
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  #44  
Old 05-10-2011, 05:05 PM
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PMH fluid conditioning

Yeron,

That would be an interesting experiment. Would probably work but I
don't see any extra advantage over permanent magnets. If the
polarity is right in relation to the direction of fluid movement - would
probably give same effect as permanent magnets.
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  #45  
Old 05-13-2011, 07:58 AM
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magnetic fuel enhancer leedskalnin style

Hello Aaron

Thanks for your reply
I was just thinking of ways to tackle the mileage on my car.
One of them is try out your ideas of plasma ignition in combination with water mist "" ´njection"".(vacuum air manifold)
It makes sense to me using just fine pure water in microscopic mist by using a ultrasonic mistmaker as these are available.
Driving in misty conditions has the effect of smooth running of the engine.
Some people have tested this so something to think about.

i have orderd a peace of OBD2 equipment for my car to get realtime readouts of the sensors. Mainly the lambda sensor readout is important so i can trick the computer if necessary by altering the voltage signal.
If the signals indicate that there is more oxygen the computer will add more fuel even when it is because there is a better combustion .
Could be very interesting to see more data on what the car is doing .

I already have done some experiments on a 1989 toyota carina (carburator) with a HHO cell in combination with a lambda signal tweak so the computer always thinks he has got the ideal mixture.
Got 20 km on one liter instead of 15 to one.
Seemed to work very well until the cell got completely clogged up by corrosion.
The guy i bougt it from has lied about the quality of the ss steel plates.
took it for a test measurement at the lokal scrap dealer an he confirmed Bad 304 instead of the minimum 316l plates.
This car is still on the road running perfect no damage done.

This next experiment will be on a Mitsubishi lancer 1998 injection.
A combination of watervapor and if the infos in your book are complete enough to build a plasma ignition i will do that.

I will order the ignition secrets download from you i think .
and maybe tinkering about with magnets or the leedskalnin pmh on the fuel lines.


Greetings

Yeron
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Old 05-13-2011, 09:04 AM
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Yeron, your hho cell will degrade no matter what steel type if you wond use pure distilled water and KOH or NaOH as electrolyte. Tap water has many minerals in it, and using soda or salt as electrolyte will eat you steel plates up quickly leaving just gunk. That will happen even to 316 grade steel. So use only distilled water and right electrolytes and you will be fine.
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  #47  
Old 05-13-2011, 04:36 PM
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mileage

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeron View Post
Hello Aaron

Thanks for your reply
I was just thinking of ways to tackle the mileage on my car.
One of them is try out your ideas of plasma ignition in combination with water mist "" ´njection"".(vacuum air manifold)
It makes sense to me using just fine pure water in microscopic mist by using a ultrasonic mistmaker as these are available.
Driving in misty conditions has the effect of smooth running of the engine.
Some people have tested this so something to think about.

i have orderd a peace of OBD2 equipment for my car to get realtime readouts of the sensors. Mainly the lambda sensor readout is important so i can trick the computer if necessary by altering the voltage signal.
If the signals indicate that there is more oxygen the computer will add more fuel even when it is because there is a better combustion .
Could be very interesting to see more data on what the car is doing .

I already have done some experiments on a 1989 toyota carina (carburator) with a HHO cell in combination with a lambda signal tweak so the computer always thinks he has got the ideal mixture.
Got 20 km on one liter instead of 15 to one.
Seemed to work very well until the cell got completely clogged up by corrosion.
The guy i bougt it from has lied about the quality of the ss steel plates.
took it for a test measurement at the lokal scrap dealer an he confirmed Bad 304 instead of the minimum 316l plates.
This car is still on the road running perfect no damage done.

This next experiment will be on a Mitsubishi lancer 1998 injection.
A combination of watervapor and if the infos in your book are complete enough to build a plasma ignition i will do that.

I will order the ignition secrets download from you i think .
and maybe tinkering about with magnets or the leedskalnin pmh on the fuel lines.


Greetings

Yeron
Yeron,

It would be easiest to use permanent magnets in the way that
the Magnet Secrets book by Peter Lindemann describes or just
get them from http://www.magnetizerproducts.com/magnetizer

I went from 17 to 20 mpg in the city with a 2.5 liter Subaru boxer engine
after I put on the gasoline maximizer set. The only other modification
on the car is racing headers, which would have dropped the city mileage
a bit but increased the highway mileage. Anyway, 17 to 20 is about a
15% difference.

Using PMH would be overkill for this application - the magnetic field
won't do anything different than what permanent magnets will do.

I got rid of a Honda Civic that I did a lot of tests on but want to get
another one for testing - but I want a VX model, which is hard to come
by.

Plasma, water injection or hho, EFIE, and magnets should all be synergistic.

Other things you can consider are condensators (with silica gel filter
for the blow by output - adsorption) - only clean vapor returns to the
engine.

Depending on if you do mostly city or highway driving, a slightly larger
exhaust to reduce back pressure and a cold air intake system.

But one of the most significant differences you can make, which is not
practical for most people is the aerodynamics by making the back end
of your car like a tear drop so to speak - with that, someone got almost
100 mpg in a Honda Civic.
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  #48  
Old 08-15-2011, 08:32 PM
lance_cory lance_cory is offline
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I can only add a little here . . .

Hi,
I work for a company that produces magnetic filtration devices. We have investigated other uses of magnetic technology in the automotive field, including magnetic fuel savers. In out experiments, we used only Neodymium (neodymium iron boron, NdFeB) magnets. We tried them with North poles facing the fuel, Spout poles facing the fuel, combinations such that the fuel went through North and South fields alternately. We also varied the space between the magnets and the fuel lines to effect changes in field strength. Our testing was not very sophisticated. We used various employer cars, both gasoline and diesel, and we did out testing a various steady state speeds, on days when there was no wind, and temperature, humidity, and barometric pressure were withing a few percentage points.
Our fuel consumption was mesured with on board flow meters and a lap top computer as a data logger. Our initial tests were such, that we saw very little variation in fuel mileage, and no consistency such that we could get a predictable and significant improvement. Because of this, we discontinued the program as not being worth further investment of resources.
We had looked into a few studies done at universities on this, and found one that seemed credible. However, it was on a steady state diesel generator, a situation and application that bore little similarity to automobile use. It was however, enough to convince us that there was something to the concept, and so we blew a few thousand dollars on primitive R&D to satisfy our curiosity.
I offer this as one who had a professional interest in this prinicple working, as it could have been a money maker for us. In reality, it still could be. We could be selling fuel savers as other do, and making sales and profit based on psuedo science and conjured explanations, but we will not do so. Our reputation is important, and our principles are dear to us. We could have formed another company in order to keep out reputation intact, but we just cannot rob people.
For those interested, here is a link to a sight were testing was done on a few different types of fuel savers - magnetic, water injection, vortex inducers.
Just in case anyone wonders about whether magnets work to change signals at stubborn intersections (sometimes motorcycles and bicycles lack enough magnetic mass to alter the inductance in buried sensor coils), we experimented with that also. The results were mixed. We definetly could get it to work reliably at some intersections, but not at all. We felt they would be worthwhile in a lot of instances, but because of the uncertainty of the results, we were (and are) reluctant to enter that market, though we have not ruled it out.
I know this is an old thread, but I though this info might be useful to future veiwers of the thread, maybe help save someone a few dollars and some wasted time.
On the other hand, just because we were not able to create any fuel savings with magnets (apart from marginal long term savings through magnetic filtration), does not mean necessarily that some innovator will not find a way to get them to work. However, I would not invest any money in that until such time that independent, verifiable and reputable testing shows them to be worthwhile.
Since this is about saving fuel (I think) I will add one thing from personal experience. The only bolt on that I have used that significantly altered my fuel mileage for the better (not counting things that modified the system - like less restrictive exhaust) was a front spoiler / air dam on a 1978 Chevrolet 1 Ton van with a 350 cu. in. motor and a 3 speed automatic transmission. I had long term fuel usage records both before and after that addition, and it provided a solid 20% improvement in combined city/highway driving. Given the aerodynamic nature of the device, I assume that the improvement was all in the highway portion. Since my driving was mostly city, I suspect that the highway mileage was increased greatly to register a 20% improvement overall.
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  #49  
Old 09-20-2012, 02:04 PM
magtech magtech is offline
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Smile magnetic fuel saver is really a kind of GREEN energy-saving tools for cars, bus etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Lindemann View Post
Elias,

If it "doesn't really have any effect", then it is NOT worth it, and you were CHEATED! Before you spend even $15, try this. Take three of the little ceramic magnets (1 inch by 2 inch) used in SSG systems, and place them on a section of NON-IRON fuel line with all North Poles facing the fuel line. They will try to repel each other, so wrap them on tightly with plastic tape.

This will approximate a system with parallel lines of force with a North Pole exit. You should be able to do this yourself, easily and not have to buy anything else.

This is where a reasonable experiment should begin.

Another configuration that should work even better would be to take 8 of the 1 x 2 ceramic magnets and place two stacks of 4 magnets on each side of the fuel line, with the South Poles facing the fuel tank and the North Poles facing the engine. This approximates the ring magnet arrangement even better, with parallel lines of force running along the fuel line for 2 inches.

Try these experiments and let us know how they work.

Peter
i quite agree with what Peter told here. magnetic fuel saver is really a kind of GREEN energy-saving tools for cars, buses, vehicles, trucks etc. i am now using it on my private car. it save more fuel cost for me each month. i bought it here. you can get it here: MAGTECH-Your One-Stop Magnetic Tools Shop - Small Orders Online Store, Hot Selling Permanent magnetic lifter,magnetic lifter,lifting magnets and more on Aliexpress.com
just have a try! you will be surprised with its benefit! wish you good luck!

Howard
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  #50  
Old 09-20-2012, 04:24 PM
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Magnetic Fuel Savers

Quote:
Originally Posted by lance_cory View Post
For those interested, here is a link to a sight were testing was done on a few different types of fuel savers - magnetic, water injection, vortex inducers.
That article in Popular Mechanics is nothing but pure quack science.

I refute some of the bogus misinformation in that article here: Magnetic Fuel Saver | Debunking Mainstream Pseudoscience | Aaron Murakami's Blog
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:44 PM
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test of fuel save on

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
My cars gas mileage keeps improving. Now it has reached 12.6 kilometers per liter. That is already 4% fuel economy. Again, these numbers should not be taken too seriously, but if you have these magnets laying around, it would just stupid not to use them on your car. You can't lose anything.
Hi

what was the finally result of your results of test thise magnetics ?

best wishes Leif
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Old 04-09-2014, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
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If the signals indicate that there is more oxygen the computer will add more fuel even when it is because there is a better combustion .
Hi, yeron.

I'm confused about something. Coming from a mechanical engineering background with 25+ years experience in boiler operation, my experience has been that when combustion efficiency is improved, the oxygen content in the exhaust stream goes *down*... more of the fuel is being burned, which is consuming more of the oxygen. In boiler operation (at least for the boilers I currently operate), we're aiming for about 3.7% oxygen in the exhaust stream, so if we improve combustion efficiency, we have to either let in more air (open the forced air inlet dampers a bit), or cut back on exhaust gas recirc (EGR) (close the EGR dampers a bit).

Doesn't an engine work the same way? If you increase the amount of fuel being burned during any given combustion cycle, the amount of oxygen consumed increases, thereby giving a lower oxygen content in the exhaust stream?
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Lindemann View Post
This approximates the ring magnet arrangement even better, with parallel lines of force running along the fuel line for 2 inches.
The ring magnets in microwave ovens (in the magnetron) should do nicely, especially since recycling centres are glad to give away the ovens. About 2.5 inch outside diameter, two per oven. N and S on the large surfaces.

High Performance Permanent Ferrite Ring Magnet
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:42 PM
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I tried this for almost a year - eight 50 x 5 x 5 neos stuck to a piece of tin wrapped around the fuel-line in the hope it would help generate a more even magnetic field. There was no improvement whatsoever in fuel consumption. One more thing that doesn't work crossed off my list...
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
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I tried this for almost a year - eight 50 x 5 x 5 neos stuck to a piece of tin wrapped around the fuel-line in the hope it would help generate a more even magnetic field. There was no improvement whatsoever in fuel consumption. One more thing that doesn't work crossed off my list...
It doesn't look as if you arranged them as Peter suggested, i.e. providing a resultant mag field which runs up the fuel pipe.
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Old 07-03-2019, 02:00 AM
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Hello Aaron
I want to help a person who can't afford the gas to drive her Durango
by using magnets on the fuel lines. Does anyone has any data here
that they work? Or are they only a 3% boost?

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Old 07-03-2019, 06:02 AM
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Heating the fuel to expansion and then nebulizing before ignition, focusing the combusted mix into a turbo charger; beyond his performance spark plugs, what I just wrote will work better than the magnets,
But this is only my opinion.
If the turbo was hooked together with magnet powered coil energy, fuel costs would go down and then run on battery for the highway.
Hybrid thought of me.
Corn diesel would fit into the senario much more cheaply.
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Old 07-03-2019, 06:56 PM
Stealth Stealth is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 537
Not only will magnets, correctly oriented, reduced fuel consumption, by helping to break up the hydrocarbons, but will also break up the calcium in hard water to make the water to become more easily saturated with soaps and detergents to allow for less usage. It will also help eliminate buildup in hot water tanks and also help to keep kidney stones from forming in most cases. Where I live in the southeastern mountains, hard water is in most of our water. I have used magnets on my fuel lines for years, as well as on my plastic water pipes, although I no longer use a tank type hot water heater. Hope this helps. Good Luck. stealth
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