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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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Old 01-13-2008, 09:51 AM
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Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
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Circuit to Automaticaly Swap Batteries on the SSG?

Wondering if anyone has seen (or can come up with ) a circuit that can swap the batteries on the SSG when the primary gets to a certain voltage... the simpler the better!

I don't have any experience with a 555 timer though from what I understand it might be able to do this.

I heard Bedini had a motor running automatically using some kind of relay.

Cheers in advance!
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Old 01-13-2008, 01:47 PM
Samemf Samemf is offline
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yes I also would be interested in this,

But also a voltage regulator controller like a solar panel controller ,

ie if im charging lets say a 50ah battery it will disconnect the battery from over charging , also disconnect the load if battery voltage drops below say 11 volts , I want to try my solar panel controller , but im afraid the high spikes will blow it up .

I have tested that I can charge a battery on the sg and also run a load ( light) directly from the battery , with the light only being turned on intermittantly battery is always charged ,

but also Ive found that I tried a 10 watt light bulb ran the light for ten minutes and checked the volatge drop , I then hooked up the Sg , ran the light again off the battery while connected to the Sg for ten minutes and the voltage drop was 1/4 of the drop without the sg , so therefore can last 4 times longer ??

Sam
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Old 01-13-2008, 07:08 PM
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theremart theremart is offline
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Auto Swap circuit

Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:Monsieur Bonheur-SG - PESWiki

See Battery Swapper schematic .


I have been debating doing this or getting a usb device that you can program to control the batteries. ( have seen such on other forums )

I currently have a servo that I can control from my computer via USB. I was thinking doing this or using X-10 ( I could use it to control a relay circuit after X amount of time. )

Someone has made a pic curcuit over on yahoo groups that will shut off the batteries when it hits a programed voltage.



From what I understand from Rick, the new device from r-charge.com will be able to hook up to a computer to get readings ( but that is still in development)

But for me, My golf Cart batterries run for over 24 hours pulling 1 Amp, so once a day switching is not bad at all.
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Old 01-13-2008, 07:36 PM
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Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
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Thanks for the find!

Though the schematic looks way over my head I expected it to be a challenge but that looks too much! Looks like you have to program the chip as well and run the circuit from your computer? Way over my head! Shame, since it sounds ideal... sparkfun are selling the complete boards in case any one else wants to give it a try!

SparkFun Electronics

I like the servo idea... i used to have manual switches in the circuit to swap the batteries that could probably be automated by servos...

I m sure there is an easy way to use a 555 timer to swap the batteries every 12 hours (for example) though I haven't used one before so don't know where to begin! Been looking at zener diodes as well but I don't think they would work
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:07 PM
Ewhaz Ewhaz is offline
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You can do this with a FPDT relay really easily. I was just thinking of this recently as a matter of fact. I don't have a schematic but basically you just set it up to switch routes from one position to the next, leaving the batteries on the neutral terminals.

However to sense the voltage of the batteries and switch them you would need an additional circuit to do that. However there might be a way with some transistors etc. All you have to figure out how to do is to have it switch when the main battery drops below 12v.
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:07 PM
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mrbreau mrbreau is offline
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Tesla Switch

I think what you guys are looking for is a Tesla switch. It is used exclusively for swapping batteries. Since there are so many links out there on the subject you should Google *Tesla Switch* and find one you like.

Good luck to y'all.
Warren
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:25 PM
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amigo amigo is offline
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That battery swapper schematic is not that hard, and the principle is simple. I would extent that further though and instead of a RS232 have a USB connection so that a "log" stored in a separate EEPROM could be dumped to the computer if user desires and an application could plot the data into a meaningful graph.

One could monitor half a dozen batteries connected and log their behaviour across set period of time and many other things. It's really your imagination that's the limit here.

Oh, and you would not need a computer to run this, the PIC chip is a micro-controller and has everything you need.
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:37 PM
Ewhaz Ewhaz is offline
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I aggree that using Pic or even other micro controllers are a good idea, but not every one will be able to implement this and it's not exactly an entry level programming/electronics project. I've been looking into programming microcontrollers and plan on going into it when I have a little more time/money.

Still, this can be done with basic electronics without having to have a micro controller set up for it I think.
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:38 PM
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mrbreau mrbreau is offline
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Tesla Switch

Here is the link from the man himself, JB!

Link; THE TESLA SWITCH

I've also got a .pdf on it.

Aaron has done a video on Google with his reel-to-reel motor.

Also; The D3 document from Patrick Kelly's site has lots on the subject.

I have a ton of info on it but how do I get it to y'all?

Warren
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Old 01-14-2008, 06:15 AM
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Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
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tesla switch looks interesting but I can't see how to hook the SSG to it? It looks like it runs a regular dc motor...
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Old 01-14-2008, 09:34 AM
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Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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No no no, the Tesla switch is a whole different Opera and is not usable for SSG battery swapping needs. I have some experience with the Tesla switch and there is far easier ways to swap batteries for your SSG.
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Old 01-14-2008, 01:04 PM
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Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
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a modification of the tesla switch might be able to do it though i'm not sure what the trigger is to swap the batteries... all the schematics I see are designed to swap the batteries hundreds of times a second which looks like is done with a pwm so wouldn't that be timed rather than triggered?

mrbreau... have you seen a schematic for a tesla switch that can swap the primary for a secondary when the battery voltage drops to a certain point?
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Old 01-14-2008, 03:03 PM
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mrbreau mrbreau is offline
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Tesla Switch Revisited

Some may remember that this topic was discussed at another thread here in August of last year. Here is the link to that topic.

Link; Use for the Tesla Switch

There are links in this thread to take you to schematics and other information.

And Sephiroth, the schematics I've seen use a 555 so they are NOT triggered, as you said. I personally don't see the need for triggering the swap of batteries. Then again, if I knew so much why am I doing all this research?

BTW, you video showing how to build an SG is fantastic. It cleared up some of the mystery for me. I am in the process of assembling two right now but progress is very slow since I have to think out every move I make. One is a twenty inch plastic bicycle wheel and the other is a VCR capstan. Because it is a learning process for me there have been mistakes which had to be corrected.

I'll have some pictures to post when something positive happens......like I get to charge a battery or two.

Warren
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Old 01-14-2008, 07:55 PM
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Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
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sorry, I still don't understand how to use that schematic to swap the batteries on the SSG...

I was thinking something along the lines of this:

batteryswapper3.jpg

though, like I say, I don't really understand how to use a 555 properly so if someone with a bit more experience can finish off the circuit (or tidy it up) I would be really grateful!

It should work in principle.

basically the zener diodes are 12V so as long as the voltage in the battery is above 12V the current should flow through the zener diodes and bipass the 555.

But when the voltage drops below 12V the current is diverted into the reset of one of the 555s and the trigger of the other one.

this (should) turn one pair of relays on and the other off so the batteries swap their position in the circuit until the other battery drops below 12V and then it swaps again...

I have marked where we would hook the SSG schematic to this circuit (primary positive, secondary positive, etc)

Anybody got any ideas or can help tutor me?

Jetijs... did you say there was a simple way to do this? lol

EDIT : Just noticed the grounds should probably be connected... have editited the schematic

Last edited by Sephiroth : 01-14-2008 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 08-06-2008, 02:48 AM
vallentin vallentin is offline
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Circuit to Automaticaly Swap Batteries on the SSG?

Well, actually such a circuit does exist. At least the most important part of it.
I'm using such a circuit with wonderful results but using a conventional charger .That situation will change soon.
Remember that when John Bedini talks about his work, you'll encounter in his speech an almost magical word: flip-flop. Ring a bell ???
SG, SSG and Tesla switch are based on it.
Then why don't we use it for everything else?
To keep it simple: almost every inverter or UPS has an alarm circuit that triggers when your battery is discharged below 10.4V. Some models will ring at 11V. From Mr. Bedini's point of view, the higher the alarm voltage on your UPS, the better (because of the C20 rate). Right?
Use that signal from the alarm circuit (can be a buzzer or an LED, or both) and drive a simple 555 flip-flop circuit with it, wich in turn switches your battery banks via relays. Here is an ideea for your inspiration: FlipFlop
One bank to SSG for charging and one bank to your inverter. In that split second, your inverter won't see the swap. Even if it does, it will keep its mouth shut until battery discharge happens again. And then, flip-flop again . And so on.
That's what Mr. Bedini expect us to do and as soon as I finish my SSG, this is what I intend to do.
I currently own two APC 1200W (sine wave), two 350W 3Com's rack mountable (triangular wave) and an 1000W (sine wave) Blazer UPS. Those 3Com's will light my house because a light bulb does't care about the triangular wave and those 700W are more than I need.
I also have a bunch of auto batteries taken fron the scrapyard and half of them are dead. Won't take the charge with a conventional charger. As long as an SSG revives dead batteries, I'm on the right path. Anyway, I intend to scale everything up and run at least half of my house needs (if not entirely) almost for free by using only the inverter part of my UPS rack.
An another "free" advice. Stop spending top $$$ on solid state relays and the rest. All you'll do is empty your pockets. Use scrap materials like I do. Instead of using a 200$ SSR I use a simple relay wich cost me nothing. Figure the rest.
Remember that we were not supposed to change the schematics wich Mr. Bedini shared with us until we understand what those circuits really do. And why change something that works? What exactly do you expect to improve? Charging time? What for, as long as it happens almost for free? Why use an expensive FET instead of a humble 2N3055 built in 1979? It does the job? Then it's good for me if it helps me to reduce my bills down to zero.
Regards, and take care.
Valentin

Last edited by vallentin : 08-06-2008 at 02:56 AM.
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:44 AM
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tjnlsn255 tjnlsn255 is offline
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Voltage regulator?

Would it not work to use a voltage regulator to turn a charging battery on and off based on it's charge voltage like in a car battery/alternator system?

My old Ford pick up has an external voltage regulator why not something like that?

I was thinking that in a PMM with no rotor field windings to turn on and off that maybe the VR could turn on and off a relay that ties the ground connection to the Bridge circuit.... just a thought.....

Have a most excellent day....

Todd
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Old 08-07-2008, 04:36 AM
muttdogg muttdogg is offline
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Switch batteries

Hey Sephiroth,
If I remember correctly, it isn't the switching of the batteries that is the problem. It is the stopping of the voltage before batteries are switched out. So, the motor needs to be stopped, or the voltage needs to be dumped to a dummy load before the switch happens. So, a manual 3-way switch would be my first try.
Dan
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Old 08-07-2008, 05:32 AM
vzon17 vzon17 is offline
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Battery swap circuit ideas

Well some ideas tha crossed my mind on this is to use a 4ple DT relay like someone mentioned. but make it a latching relay. then you just need a short pulse to flip it from one side to the other and the rest of the time it does not use any power. then you can use a zener diode of the right voltage to dump a cap to turn on the relay coil momentarily when the voltage in the batteries goes low or high.
just some ideas for simplicity.
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