Hi Jetijs,

Sorry for my poor English. Your series cell electrolyser looks awesome . You just made the electrolyser which I have in my mind for very long time. The only difference is you used wire bridge to joint plates. KOH corrodes copper wires and contaminate the electrolyte which later reduce the electrolyser efficiency. Use wider stainless steel strips for plate bridging.

To increase amps with lower voltage, there are few ways :
1) Use higher strength KOH.
2) Or, use higher voltage
3) Or, make the plate gap closer to 3mm (difficult with your design).

Can I know your cell voltage? Is it 12V or more? I use car alternator to power my 6 series cell which can pull about 21A at 13.5V(across cell) to output 1.89LPM of hydroxy. The electrolyte strength is 5% KOH and 95% RO water. The alternator puts out above 16V without load. Your electrolyser should produce more since you have larger plate area.

To improve your system further, I would suggest to place fish tank stone bubbler to break big bubbles into smaller bubbles and to stablize gas flow for your torch. Bronze wool will turn into black (corrodes) because of KOH mist after bubbler over period of time. Use SS fine wool or use double bubbler. First bubbler as scrubber and second bubbler for safety.

Just curious, can you show me how you made your flashback arrestor? It looks simple.

kumaran,
I don't know what the concentration of my electrolyte is right now, but it is high. I am running my electrolyzer at 30V and it draws 20A at this voltage. The "sweet spot" is between 25V-28V, changing voltage in that range allows me to adjust amperage from 10A to 20A (that is the max. that my power supply can put out). If I set the voltage to 12V, I can get only about 300mA current draw. But I think, that If I use the neutral plates as additional positive and negative, I will get the same amperage (if not more) at only 12V and the same amount of gas. This is half the power consumption for the same results. Also there wont be any heat, because now, if I run the unit for a half an hour non stop, the electrolyte heats up, but not very much, nevertheless this is lost power.
My brass wire end connections are getting dark, that means I will have to think of a different plate connectors, just like you said.

About my flashback arrestor, there is really nothing much to say. I just took a simple plastic tube, made a thread on each side so that I can screw in the brass fittings. Then I just stuffed the bronze wool inside the tube and screwed in the end fittings - that is all

In order to get higher amps, just connect nearest two plates to positive and negative in all cells. Now, you are using far plates for positive and negative connection while neutral plates in between does nothing. From picture I see you use total of 5 plates per cell so the active plate gap is 30mm to 35mm. That is why the amperage was too low for 12V.

I do believe neutral plate does help to produce a bit more gas, but we just want to get higher amps with less voltage (12V). By connecting nearest two plates to pos and neg, the active plate gap becomes 5mm (mine 6mm gap) to allow more amperage at low voltage. Later if everything goes well, you may use neutral plates to be active plates by connecting in parallel for same polarity.

Use wider stainless steel plates as connector. KOH and NaOH are highly corrosive chemical for most of materials. The cheapest material which could withstand these chemicals is stainless steel. Do not drink bubblers water as been discussed in previous post. Bubblers water contaminated with KOH vapors from electrolyser.

Hmmm... interesting. I'm just worried since hydroxy is in gas formation. I wonder how could bronze wool prevents the flashback. I'm a bit nervous to try new flashback arrestor after few explosion but I will try this simple device. Check this link

Hello everyone,
greetings from my first post in this forum I hope it finds you all well.
I have been lurking in amongst all the great threads, reading and learning for a while now, so firstly I would like to say thank you for providing such a wonderful atmosphere with so much knowledge and brilliance.
I am only a beginner, but have amassed a lot of reading time which sort of brings me to my point. (please bare with me)
I am re-reading 'The Field' by Lynne McTaggart, which I am sure some of you are aware of.
Today I found a very interesting paragraph. (chapter 10 'The healing field', page 185, 2nd paragraph)
"decreased hydrogen bonding" and "similar to what happens when water is exposed to magnets" got me thinking

I admit I do not have a WFC to experiment with. I have built the 'Dave Lawton pulsing circuit' but have yet to acquire any SSteel tubes. I like to let my materials come to me (very easy to do in a 'throw away society').
Maybe this will hurry things up!

I read the chapter at lunchtime and then spent most of the afternoon thinking of different magnet configurations for different tube and flat-plate set-ups I have seen.
But one 'silly' idea kept jumping into my head. With all the discussion recently of chokes and bi-filar chokes with different wiring configurations and their effects in mind, what would happen if the chokes were incorporated into the tubes of the WFC, in the water? Would the electromagnet properties of the coils have an effect on the hydrogen bonds? Coils wound on the tubes, coils between the tubes even flat pancake coils between the flat-plate set-ups?

Is this something that has been explored? I don't remember seeing or reading about it if it has.

Keep up the good work everybody!

Hi Bourne, !

Pulsed magnetic fields directly on the tubes/plates where the gas rises will either increase or decrease the burn rate.

There are ideas about orthohydrogen and parahydrogen but I don't necessarily believe in those theories but there seems to be some valid info on slowing or increasing burn rate depending on field strength of the coils and frequency combinations.

Creating the water gas.... hho or whatever it really is, which I don't think nobody knows the real answer... into gas and then when it turns back to water, the bonding angle is changed compared to what it was before it was turned into gas and healing properties and other properties were attributed to this change in its energetic state...such as drinking the water, adding it to plants, etc...

Hello everyone.
I made two videos with some demonstrations of what the HHO od Browns gas can do.
You can see that the flame is not hot at all, I can wave my hand through the flame and it feels only warm (don't try this with an oxyacetylene gas! ) . The first item is a thin iron hair clip. Then we are cutting a piece of silicon steel lamination. Then we melt the tip of a 4mm diameter stainless steel rod. The tip is melting, but I can safely hold the other end in my hand and it is only slightly warm. Then we are vaporizing a tungsten rod, you can see that there are lots of fumes. Then again a 1mm thick piece of steel. Then I am demonstrating how the flame condenses into water again. Then we are melting the surface of a ceramic plate (around 10k degrees Celsius). And at last we are melting a small piece of glass
The other video is just some messing around with an aluminum energy drink can.
Lots of fun. Hope you will enjoy it.

YouTube - HHO gas testing
YouTube - HHO gas testing 2

Any other stuff you want me to burn/melt?
Thanks,
Jetijs

V

Very nice Jetijs!

I once read that one of the Brown gas tourches changed radioactive matterial in to non radioactive matterial.

I would NOT want you to try though!!

Has anyone heard this too?

Thanks sykavy,
I heard this from Aaron, but unfortunately I do not have access to a Geiger counter and any radioactive products to test this. But so far I have confirmed everything they say about the properties of this HHO flame, that I could test. And I have no reason to believe that all the other things they say are wrong. This is without doubt a technology that everyone need to have in their home. There is SO much possible uses for this gas. Please read the eventual uses of this gas here:
Eagle-Research Brown's Gas Fabulous Uses
This simple technology is simply astonishing

Here is a video about reducing radioactivity with this flame:
YouTube - Browns Gas - Reduction of Radioactivity


thank you,
Jetijs

Thanks that was aweird video. It looked like it didn't work but hey said it did. Brown gas is definitly unique so I'll give theme the benifit of the doubt.

BTW I saw you cuting stuf that looked like your attraction motor

Have you given up on it? You were the one who was making the most progress

Anyway you are very productive!!

Dont worry, the attraction motor is still my project number one. I just have many of these silicon steel spare parts left, that I can use for various experiments. Its just that some parts of my attraction motor is being made now by professionals and it takes a long time. So I am experimenting on other stuff for now
Thanks,
Jetijs

Have you found a simple way to boil water with the flame?

Maybe heating some kind of metal pan with water in it? Maybe a ceramic cup with water? If the flame gets the materials up to their own melting point on contact, maybe a way to shortcut the boiling process by having that heat conduct to the water?

Great vids by the way!! And YES..VERY BRIGHT!

sirHOAX did some water boiling a few months back, he only posted a couple vids
YouTube - Home Heating Experiments with HHO Hydrogen MiniTorch

Aaron, I have tried only one way how to heat water, I submersed a brick under water so that a thin film of water covers its surface, then I tried to heat the brick through this water film. But my torch does not have enough pressure to do this properly.
Also an interesting thing is happening the last days. As my electrolyzer has the neutral plates exactly as in joecells, the water is starting to create foam when the power is applied. Also the amp draw drops from 20A to about 16A in first minutes and then it goes up to 20A again. In joecell terminology this foam indicates that the cell has reached level 2 where the orgone/aether is seeded in the water. I have not seen any other electrolyzers that create foam. I used distilled water and some KOH as electrolyte and there is nothing in this mix, that could create foam.

Here is a picture:

How fast does the foam happen after turning it on? In Daniel Dingel's cell, it looks like the water gas is kind of foamy too and happens very quick.

I haven't spent much time looking at Joe Cell technology because there is just so many things to spend time on, but do Joe Cells use naoh or koh?

Aaron,
the foam builds up quickly, just in seconds after the power is turned on and it stays there till the power is turned off and for a 10 or so minutes afterwards, then the water is clear again. It is not recommended to use any electrolyte in joecell, because there we do not need any gas production. We only need the water so conducting that it can pass through about 0.5 to 1 amp at 12v. This is enough for bubbles to appear and the way how the bubbles appear tells us what stage the cell is and how much aether is stored in that water If your water is so clear, that it cannot pass enough current through it, then you can just increase the cell charging voltage till you get the current you need. But if you need to use only 12v, they sometimes use phosphoric acid, because you need only a teaspoon or so to make a gallon of water conduct enough current. It is not recommended to use vinegar for this as you would need large volumes of it and that can make the water "go bad"

If you haven't read this yet, please read the joecell experimenters guide:
Alex Schiffer - Joe Cell - Experimenters Guide to the Joe Cell | MERLib.org
It should answer most of your questions about joecells. Also look up those long videos in video.google.com where Joe himself explains and demonstrates these things. This is very interesting

Hi Jetijs,

Very nice video on torch experiment.

Foam during electrolysis is because of cold electrolyte. If newly prepared electrolyte (KOH + distil water), no foam builts up during electrolysis. The next day you may notice foam started to form. This is because of KOH or NaOH and nothing to do with JoeCell seeding or breeding stage. Joecell don't use any additives just pure ground water.

Any plan to test your electrolyser in 4 stroke engine?

Hi kumaran
The foam might be because of the electrolyte, but then again I am using neutral plates and it is the neutral plates that makes a joecell to operate in that unique way it does. Also in the first tries I operated the cell for about 30 minutes. I could feel that the electrolyte has become warm through the acrylic, but nevertheless there was no foam. It started to appear only in last days.

Hi Jetijs,

To confirm the foam develops because of cold electrolyte, do the followings.

1. Run the electrolyser for about 30 minutes or more until electrolyte gets warm and no foam develops.
2. Now, drop a little bit of distil water into one of the cell and see if foam develops in that particular cell.
3. Or to make things easier, blow some cold air on surface of cell. See the changes to white gas foam.

If you use neutral plates, then you should not seperate the plates with cell divider. You made series cell. See the attached picture. I believe your design is similar to picture attached.

Attached Images

parallel_series_cell.jpg (29.3 KB, 61 views)

Guys we just ordered a kit for the Bob Boyce unit, and have the toroid (massive choke) here already.,

Am going to pilot scale this make a step by step for the forum ad get test results validated by a third party, accredited faculty. I will also apply for grants for Aron and the group. Thing is we need to replicate Arons and or a unit which exceeds faraday's in order for the no profit org i work for to get grants for open sourced engineers.

Any ways great thread. will keep every one updated on the bob boyce

Ash

Hi Jetijs,

I made the flashback arrestor as you explained. Only difference is I used steel fine wool instead of bronze fine wool. I add another safety bubbler (soft drink bottle) in line with new flash back arrestor.

First few test, yes the flash back arrestor works wonderful. After few test I notice small explosion happens in safety bubbler. I try to narrow down the problem and I found that if we light the gas output immediately after first test, the explosion happens in safety bubbler.

Then I use, commercial flashback arrestor. This one immediately stops the flashback. I could hear two explosion happens inside commecial flashback arrestor. First at output tip and second inside the flashback arrestor tube. Not even once the flashback goes to safety bubbler.

So Jetijs, I hope you throughly test your flashback arrestor before put for real use. I can't imagine if flashback happens inside electrolyser.

Kumara, please post details on your commercial backflash arrestor.

Hi Aaron,

I have attached the commercial flashback arrestor which I used on yesterdays testing. I got this item free from my friend so I don't really know the price (should be very expensive).

Attached Images

100_5713.jpg (37.1 KB, 69 views)

Hi ash,

would appreciate a few more info to the kit.

Who sells the kit?
Maybe later on some pics?

Thank you

magnetO

Hi magnetO

Sure the idea is to make step by step instructions of the panacea university document. We don't have any snaps yet, the seller is on ebay from the UK and offers the electronics kits. I am not aware of any body doing the plates as a kit and or both at this time.

Got to ebay and put in Bob boyce, the seller will come up

Hi kumaran,
You have to stuff the wool in the tube very tightly for the arrestor to work properly. I tested my arrestor dozens of times and every time I stop melting/cutting stuff, I turn the power off and let the flame get smaller and smaller till the pressure is small enough for the flame to travel to the flashback arrestor. Not once did the flame get to the bubbler. Maybe steel does not work as well as bronze. It is also possible, that your steel wool is not fine enough, my friend blew his bubbler because of this, he used a very coarse steel wool. I don't know, but this method has proven itself for many experimenters around youtube

Hi all
Today I finally blew up my bubbler. I made a new flashback arrestor for my friend, I stuffed it full with the bronze wool and lit the flame - everything worked fine till I shut the power off, the flame became smaller and smaller as usual and suddenly went into the tinny torch hole till it reached the wool. I saw a white smoke coming out of the torch (the plastic tube was melting) and a few seconds later the fire got all the way through the wool and into the bubbler. It is lucky that my friend put a cardboard box on the bubbler to prevent the pieces of flying around. At first I even said that there is no need for that, I was wrong. There was a loud bang And my bubbler exploded into small pieces.
This gave me the opportunity to disassemble the whole electrolyzer and inspect the plates and the plate connectors. Here are the pictures:









You can see how the KOH is slowly eating up the brass connectors turning them black. And this black stuff is collecting on the bottom of the cell. That means I need to find a better way to connect the plates together. Everything else seems fine.
Also I came to a conclusion that you shouldn't make the bubbler out of plexiglass, because it is hard and brittle. You need a flexible and soft plastic, because this is like slapping water with your hand, the faster you slap, the harder the water gets. The explosion/implosion of HHO gas is very fast and the harder the bubbler walls, the greater the possibility that the whole bubbler will explode rather than only the small cap will fly away.
Thanks,
Jetijs

nice work Jet. Im glad you weren't hurt at all. This shows the importance of the flash back arrestor as a safety device.

Some stainless plate cut and bolted to the plates with good stainless bolts should fix your connection erosion. And make a bigger bubbler. I wonder if you could gut an old battery and modify the case?

You probably can use an old battery for an electrolyser case - thats a good idea BTW
In my case bolts for connecting plates are not an option, because the nuts and bolt heads are at least 3mm thick, this way the bolt head or nut would be the nearest place to the other plate. This would require some sort of insulation or something like that. I will see how connectors with different coatings work in KOH environment, I know there is tin coated brass connectors that could work and even gold plated ones
I think I understood why my new flashback arrestor did not work properly. I will draw a sketch and explain a little later
Thanks,
Jetijs

Ok, Here is a sketch:



Here you see how the bronze wool was stuffed in the torch in both situations. In the situation A (when the bubbler blew up) the bronze wool was not stuffed all the way till the smallest hole. That left an area for a small volume of gas to gather. This made possible for the flame to reach the plastic tubing and melt it getting farther and farther through the flash back arrestor till the end and then - BANG. In the situation B, the wool was stuffed all the way in till the smallest hole. This did not allow for the flame to travel till the plastic tubing and melt anything. Also the bronze wool was a little wet. This works well. So when you build your flashback arrestor, use a a metal tube and stuff the wool so that the least amount of gas volume can gather
Thanks.

Hi Jetijs,

Sorry to hear this thing happens to you too. I'm a bit phobia in trying new flashback arrestor after two big explosions happens during my previous experiments. You mentioned that you turn off the power and let the flame gets smaller and smaller till no gas pressure to burn and flashback arrestor able to stop the flame. Hmmm... I doubt about that. Well, the electrolyser still produce gas even after the power turned off for sometime depends on how much charges stored on each plates. Expecting flashback arrestor to stop the slow burning flame will not happen. Instead the slow burning flame burns everything along the way from flashback arrestor until bubbler. I did spoilt many football inflator needle which I used to test for hydroxy torch.

Some one from other forums suggest to use shut off valve in between torch tip and flashback arrestor. He mentioned this will prevent the flames to travel until reach bubbler. Personally I have never tried this method yet but hopefully I’ll in my next test on flashback arrestor. Jetijs, I will try to use your suggestion to stuff the steel wool until bronze output nipple.