Hi Everyone,

Jetis, Aaron,

Have you guys tried to extract the electrical energy out of H and O gas produced with a "Fuel Cell Generator"? It'd be interesting to see if you could turn the gas into electrical energy, and would be good way to experimentally determine if you are making higher energy monatomic H, etc.

Thanks,
Greg

Hi Jetis;

This just came in from S1R. Looks very interesting and relevant to the experiments you and others are doing. Hope it helps.

Yahoo! Groups

Al

This is jsut copy/past from Fearjar ... who disappeared from any forum not from s1r

Hi Greg. Have not tried that, do not know how to do this. If you have any ideas about that, please let them know

anyway, I can not figure out what the problem is with my genset setup. I disassembled my cell and put it together again using 4mm gaskets this time, that means 4mm spacing between plates and more water. I made a 12 cell electrolyzer but I have wired it so that there are two 6-cell arrangements in parallel. I used a new electrolyte with a high KOH concentration. The water was distilled. I made a platic bottle blow up test and it passed I mean the bottle explodes into pieces rather than just fly up in the air as it was with the 3mm plate spacing and weaker electrolyte. Then I made a base test on my gen set to see how long it would take to consume a certain amount of fuel. When I had this time, I attached the electrolyzer at 10A, 11.3V. There was no fuel economy, just additional load to the generator. The hho tube was attached to the vacuum tube of the generator that is used to open/close air valve at the starting of the engine. After this I made this test again but this time I did not attach the HHO tube to the generator, but left it disconnected so that the HHO is not used at all. The power supply settings were the same. This time the generator consumed the fuel at the same time, no difference. So where is the problem? It seems that the HHO does nothing to the engine, because it performs just as well as if the hho is not connected at all. Might it be that no hho ever gets to the combustion chamber? This is weird... Any suggestions would be apreciated

Quite a while back, I saw where Tero or Terro ran a small engine on 100% hho. He produced enough to fill up a balloon and had this balloon over the intake probably thru some tube. That was the only fuel source and it ran on and of course stopped running when the balloon was emptied because he couldn't make enough to keep up with demand.

Maybe the hho in your situation somehow is just turning back into moisture by the time it hits the combustion chamber?

Aaron, I gave it a thought and you just might be right. I observed that over time there are water droplets visible on the inside surface of the plastic hho tube, this might be due to the vacuum, because the cell itself is not hot and that could not be steam. The vacuum gets rather strong on the tube where I am attaching the hho and it might just recombine the hho into water again. So what I will try is attaching my torch tip to the hho tube so that the hho gas pressure can build up and the hho gas is released pressurized through the torch tip nozzle into the air intake/vacuum tube. Maybe this will help
Thanks for the idea

Jetijs; I WAS going to point you to some fabulous videos on YouTube. But I decided to check them out first. They've been pulled the same way Aaron's were, "terms of use violation."

The guy's name is Roy McAlister. He's been working in Hydrogen power for more than twenty years and has his own car powered with it. He tools all around town in his car. (Way off track there! Sorry.)

One of his tenets is that you DON'T want vacuum or much vacuum. The trick is to get the hydrogen as close to the intake valve as possible. Then again, he is running on hydrogen only and not HHO.

This may or may not help.

Warren
..

Thanks Warren
This just confirms my suspicion
Will try this out tomorrow

Here is a place you can "rent" a DVD for $9.99 on his stuff. They say there is 210 minutes on it. I think it is well worth the cost/money.

Link; Alternative Energy instruction video: How to Run Engines and Cars on Hydrogen and Other Fuels by Roy McAlister and Steven Harris

Warren
..

YouTube isn't the only kid on the block! Here is another link to the videos.

Link; Roy Mcalister Videos - Metacafe

WARNING!!! These videos could be addicting.

I've spent a LOT of hours watching them at the *other* place.

Good luck.

Warren
..

Doesn't seem to be working. Do those videos work on your computer?

I ASSUMED that because they were on Metacafe they would work and didn't try them. Since you reported a problem I went back and tried them, only to find out they are links to the YouTube videos. DRAT!!!!

I'll keep looking around to see what I can come up with.

BTW; there was a link in that link I sent to copy the full four hour DVD at *piratescove* if you know anything about them.

It is here; Hho Class 3.1-.9 of 7.9 - Video
the link is to *piratebay* not piratecove as I said.

After watching some of the video I think this is NOT what you might be looking for.

It is probably better to just rent the DVD and be done with it.

Warren
..

Ok, today I tested various hho setups the whole day. I can now confirm, that the hho gas does not like vacuum. At first I tried to connect the hho tube with the air intake via the hho torch, so that there is a much smaller hole for the hho to travel trough, I thought that this will increase the pressure in the electrolyzer and improve things. But I was wrong. I set the power supply to 10A and the economy at this current was -13%. Then I set the current to 20A and the economy dropped even more, to about -15%. Then I replaced the torch tip with a small medical needle and injected that needle in the vacuum tube that controls the air intake at starting the engine. I left the other end of the tube unconnected so that it is easier for the engine to suck air from the open end of the tube rather than through the small needle opening. This improved things alot. At 8A I got +1.7% fuel economy. Then I tried lower currents, I set the power supply to 3.5A and this resulted in +3.5% fuel economy. Then I lowered the current some more - to 2A. This gave the best result so far, +5% economy. Any less current and the economy starts to drop. Still this is not as good as I have hoped for, but I am getting closer. So 2A looks like a sweetspot in current for an engine this small, considering that I use stock timings. Maybe under greater load I could get better economy, but that is yet to be tested. So far I have two explanations for the current/economy relation. One possibility is that at higher amps, more HHO is produced and we know that too much hho is bad if you can not change the timing. The other possibility could be that more amps is a biger load to the generator thus also greater fuel consumption.
Tomorrow I will make more tests using higher loads on the generator (today I used only 600w of load). Any other suggestions that I could try out?

i am in process of building a cell this will be same design as my current 12 tube design at present i use a 2.5mm gap. i would like to see how close i can get the spacing down everything will be designed on cad then machined on a cnc mill i was thinking of using a gap of .5 to 1mm can anyone see a problem with this. ie high voltage with my setup is there a risk of explosion like a water sparkplug reaction?

No that spacing should be no problem, if you are doing the Meyer cell it will be an advantage since your Q value will increase, hence the gas production. However you need to tune the choke more carefully.

The most important detail is that the pipes must be absolutely straight and keep the same spacing along the cylinders otherwise the result will be bad.

just reinstalled the cell case in my car this weekend i am able to chop and change my cell units to test different configurations i'm trying a new alternator and some different voltages thru it. its all installed steath now its only a 1000$ car but all the knobs and dials attracted thieves and i've had a hard time using it because i cant park it anywhere. hopefully i can actually find out some mpg figures now i had a baseline of 730kms to one tank 71 litres i'm hoping to double that.

the new cell tubes will be from a new steel supplier that can guarentee they are straight. the will most likely be line bored to ensure they are arrow straight inside and sandblasting the smaller inner tubes as well to help get bubble formation happening. i'm going all out on this cell the one i have is good this new one will be a work of art.

Hi all.
Today I tested my custom ignition system. At first, of course, I made some measurements on fuel economy and exhaust temperature using the stock magneto ignition so I can compare the results. A certain amount of fuel was consumed in 53m36s and the exhaust temperature was 375 degree Celsius. Then I attached my custom ignition system with timing at about 30 degree before TDC. The engine run very smooth and stable, much more stable than with my previous ignition system. The same amount of fuel was now consumed in 60m17s. that is 12.5% fuel economy. This time the exhaust temperature was 350 degree and that is about 25 degree less than with the stock ignition. Now I fixed the RPM regulator so I can find the optimum timing for highest RPM's. It was about 40 degree before TDC (Of course if the TCD on the timing wheel is set correct). This gave an even bigger fuel economy - 16.5% and the exhaust temperature went down a little bit more, it was now 340 degree Celsius. Cooler exhaust means better engine efficiency and we can see this by the fuel economy that we get. Now I need to test this using hho booster and water spark circuit.
Thanks.
Jetijs

been driving my car with full pulsed alternater hho setup for 1 week now and got to say it is looking real promising i have leaned out the mixture almost as far as my carbs will allow (a jet change is on the cards) i have to drive on choke till hho hits engine or it will just stall my cell is in the rear of car so takes 2 or so minutes to purge hho fuel line. i will experiment with ignition timing this week as it has now become obvious i can get away with a few more degrees advanced. awesome.... so far in the one week it has used less gas than the 1500cc run around car i normally drive the boosted car is 2.5 litre!!

If i connect 7 or 21 electromagnets in series together that will be generating voltage by moving 21 magnets pass them increase in voltage or decrease in voltage?

or do I have to connect them in parallel to generate more voltage?

I mean does it make a difference how many electromagnets i connect in series or not?

If i want to increase the voltage do i connect more electromagnets (coils with a iron in the middle) in series together or in parallel?

Or does it not matter because you can have 1 or a thousand elecromagnets and the voltage will still be the same.

the speed of the rotating magnets will be about 2750 rpm.

nothing will be connected to the electromagnets as far as electricity or voltage.

the magnets will just be cutting the line of coils to produce voltage and i was wondering what do i have to do to increase the voltage big time.

do i connect a capacitor at each end of each coil and at the end of all the elecromagents place a hv diode or what to collect the voltage and use it.

by the way the magnetic wheel is set up as north south north south (+ and -) in other words AC.

If this is the wrong place to post this please forgive me. At any rate could ya still help me, i really need a quick response, please.
Thanks for yas help in advance!

why do you allways talk about adding this to produce h do you know what tis stuff dose to and to your engine think about it you use it to clean the corossin from your battery so what is it doing to your engine it's not cleaning it.""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""'

what an excellent cell. good work. i have about 10 cells, all unique designs. i used 6 or 7 cell arrays with 13.7 volts. none were above 6mmw. thats with noah and most were 1/32 an inch, some 1/8 and inch gap and 2.4 volts per gap seems optimum (my power supply is variable and rated at 60 amps) all my cells were with cheap 302 ss and the brand i used were 4 gang blank wall plates. they all have carbon that is not present in home depot blank wall plates, the one gangers. so i learned not all 302 ss is in fact made with specs that match. cheap chinese ss is whatever they pour that day to save money. my cells all spit out huge amounts of brown particles. that contaminates the soup. and hho production drops off over 10 hours of use.
my next attempt will be to filter the soup with a pump and filters, much like an aquarium so that self contamination cant occur and the cheap ss can be purge of the brown particles and then the vacant pores may even aid hho production? i dunno.
waveforms. a stepped voltage. 4 steps. 1.8v to 2.4 volts and then high voltage pulse at the top step.
[]
__l
__l
_____l

that top stair is sposed to be a spike of say 100 volts. just a quick water cracker. i got this idea making love to the wife. just kidding. any ways the frequency should be 42.8 khz. any one think it would work? the circuit is in forest mims scrapbook 2. its a waveform gen that is real easy to build and actually is what stan meyers waveform looked like. but he vaporized water and did a high voltage spark to crack vapor? i dunno. mebbe i can get the cheap ss outta my lab and get on it, its been hard to get the heart to delve into mad science.i have to work and my lab has no heat and is a total mess.

that wave form wont post. it looked like stairs before i posted it. anyways good luck and any feedback wecome. my home depot plates in my smack booster are crystal clear and the soup is too. later

hho is a small additve and results are not seen well until you take a trip. on level land, your torque demand in a 2 ton car levels off and is considered a period of demand for fuel that is lowest and leanest. also, at a rather constant torque demand, and momentum, you have a sweet spot for hho to work. remember rpm's mean the compression stroke is more frquent and behind the piston is momentum and the little poof explosion at each firing by the added hho gas is like a little free ride for compression stroke. remember petrol is such a poor burner that it has to be compressed, and that is just to be 20% efficient. actually an iv drip of water oras fuel additive in intake adds 20% more oomph and a sweet spot is actually found at lower rpm higher torque, like throw car in second, go 40 mph and the diesel effect of water gets phenomenol increases in mpg, provided water is in fuel, and added after rpms and torque are at right demands for additive. the armies knew this about trucks. some planes when climbing, the pilot/mechanic found same sweet spot, it just varies when to do the most good to consider tinkering.

Hi all,
Good thread Jetijs. I'm about to replicate the "stacking" electrolizer design, for lack of a better word. I am in the process of building a 12" x 12" - 5 plate design for use with my dual self oscillating device (based on the bedini self oscillator). I'm expecting my stainless plates any time now. I ordered 304 grade and now really wish i would have gotten 316. oh well.

I'm looking for low amperage HHO production and low driving voltage for the circuit itself with my current device (looking for a device that can convert well from solar or earth battery). I'm always trying to do something different so my equipment is always very experimental. Who knows the next home run could be off the next pitch!

Just found that thread and starting to read. Looks kinda like pieces of the Stan Meyer picture that are missing here.

Also this schematic peeked my interest from a video posted a page or two back. Something to think about.

I'm dying to have a torch running to start welding things that don't normally weld together. :P I just want my torch to run for 12 watts or so.

Does some one have an idea what to use as an electrolyte if I want to use my torch to reconbine the hho into "new" water and use it for healing stuff? I mean, I don't want to risk with KOH, even using two bubblers in series. I tried just distilled water on 30cell electrolyser, but even at 300VDC there is just some miliamps of current draw, that is obviously not enough for a torch. Then wired the cell so that there are five 6cell compartments in parallel. This gave an amp draw of 3-4A at 250VDC, but the rectifier and the electrolyzer plates got hot very fast. So what should I use? Citric acid maybe?
Thanks,
Jetijs

Jetijs,
You could use tap water. Go to Water for Fuel. Kevin West is making good progress in getting lots of bubbles with no electrolyte. He's trying to duplicate Stan's patents and he's got some significant results using a 555 and MOSFET to pulse the field of a rewired alternator. He's got his own interpretation of Stan's VIC circuit.

his system draws about 800 watts and he's using 3, 5" or 6" ss tubes. The water churns with gas coming off the cells. He's using "spring water".

I think that guy Dankie had a very good point discussing using stainless steel windings in the VIC coil. I went back and watched Stan's videos on Youtube and paid attention to his explanation. I'd missed that point before thinking he was talking about stainless in the tubes. Dankie also included in his posts on "Water sparkplug" thread, references to Stan's patents mentioning the stainless steel coils in the VIC.

Kyle

Hi Kyle.
I will never use tap water, because this makes lot of scum to appear in the water as the water is not clean and has some impurities in it, that electricity separates out. I don't want to clean my cell This is not a problem if you use distilled water and electrolyte

Jetijs,

Yeah, your right about the scum. I have to clean my test cell due to tests with tap water. YUK.

The point I was making was that I was suprised you'd need electrolyte. I figured you guys had advanced beyond Faraday.

Xack

Hi guys, I have bee scouring the forum for the answer to this question to no avail.

I am a bit confused on how to best stop using brute force (12v 30+amps) and begin using 110v and less amps. What I have learned would be to use a simple power inverter. With that being said. All the power inverters I have seen go from a cig lighter(or hard wire from the battery) to having a plug receptacle or two on the other end. My question is, would I need to modify the receptacle end or do just use 4ga wire with a plug at the end? (so i guess my question is how do i connect the AC end to the (below mentioned) bridge rectifier

The other question is: I have learned then after the power inverter would come a "bridge rectifier". What type, size rating, etc.. do i use, if using a 110v power inverter? (i.e 1000v 25amp) does anyone reccomend a source to find these?

I also intend on using a Dave Lawton style PWM or a Bob Boyce PWM3G. Does anyone have any input to which would be best?

I hope i was able to ask my questions clearly.
Thanks in advance for any input

scott

As for a practical use for an HHO torch, has anyone tried to fix cracked windshield glass? I would think this would be a great advance since the traditional methods have so many limitations.

Assuming you could get it dry and warm I would think that it wouldn't shatter.

Thank You For Your Replies, I have enjoyed this thread, I would really like to build an AC powered HHO generator for a welder but think the safety levels need to be improved. There are also so many designs I just don't know where to start.

Has anyone ever tried using the components from an acetylene torch for a proper HHO welder?

Just curious
Ryan