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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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Old 11-18-2007, 02:31 AM
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O2 Sensor modification using spark plug non-foulers

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the modification of the O2 sensor by using spark plug non-foulers as spacers to bring the o2 sensor probe away from the exhaust gases. This causes less oxygen to be sensed by the sensor tricking the fuel computer into thinking the air:fuel mixture is richer than it is. This will make the fuel computer lean out the mixture so less fuel is consumed. It is recommended to use this modification only if other combustion enhancers are utilized so that a leaner mixture will effectively combust.

Redmeanie brought this concept here in the hydrogen booster thread and Racer246 posted the instructions how it can be done. Today, I bought the stuff to make my own and already installed it and will post results here over the next few tanks to see what happens. Here are some pics and a full PDF with everything can be downloaded (link provided below pictures)















You can see my o2 sensor is in good shape with hardly any carbon buildup...just barely enough to even be a layer thanks to RXP Generation II fuel additive. My purpose in this experiment is to receive full benefit from the fuel additive without the fuel computer sabotaging it.

A full document in PDF format can be downloaded here:
O2 Sensor Spark Plug Non-Fouler modification

Last edited by Aaron : 11-18-2007 at 02:35 AM.
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Old 11-18-2007, 02:50 AM
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o2 sensor mod comments

The non-foulers were about $5 at autozone.
Anti-seize lubricant about $3.

The 1/2" hole was drilled by placing one of the non-fouler spacers in a vice and drilling with a hand drill. It is much easier and more easily centered by using a drill press. No matter what, besides a few dollars, it just takes time to remove o2 sensor, attach to both non foulers and insert back into the exhaust manifold. Non counting the drilling time, removal and re-installation with spacers took about 10 minutes of time.

I had to remove a heat shield from the exhaust manifold and the sensor was a tough nut to crack! With the anti-seize lubricant, everything was a breeze.

If you have a drill press, 1-5 minutes is all you need so this is a 15 minute project and about $6-7 cost + time. There is enough anti-seize lubricant to do a couple dozen of these projects.

I left the compressed stock washer on the base of the o2 sensor. I put on the modified non-fouler adapter without any new washer/gasket onto the o2 sensor. I added anti-seize lubricant to the o2 sensor threads..be careful not to get that stuff on the sensor probe. I then put the unmodified non-fouler spacer on the modified one with lubricant and also no gasket/washer. I DID use a gasket washer between the 2nd spacer and exhaust manifold and of course anti-seize lubricant on those threads going into the exhaust manifold.

I hooked up all the wires again and then drove around a bit just to make sure nothing funky immediately happened and didn't really expect anything to.

Some of the lubricant from exhaust heat smelled after I parked when I stopped. That will disappear over a bit of time. when I parked I disconnected the negative of the battery cable so the fuel computer reset. It will remain unhooked for about 4-6 hours until I reconnect it.

The current tank is at about 3/4 and I'll know at the end of this tank if there is a difference. I keep good records of MPG and I'll post my results if it did anything at all or not.

I used the old O2 sensor. A new one cost $40 but with the RXP, it causes almost everything to burn since it links all the hydrocarbon molecules together...causing more to burn as it absorbs infrared heat. so this sensor is in good shape and hardly had any carbon on it at all.
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Old 11-18-2007, 03:01 AM
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Awesome Write Up...

Great write up and FAST! Glad to see you jump right out there and do this Aaron!
Keep us posted!
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Old 11-18-2007, 03:22 AM
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gas mileage increase potential

Thanks!

I'm just excited to learn of this very simple and practical solution...benefits yet to be seen but I'm optimistic.

I suppose the non-fouler attached to manifold could always be welded off so no gases hit the probe showing a very rich mixture I guess. I'll just see what happens with this.

If very significant, I plan to add PULSTAR plugs and a few other things to see if I can crank it up more. I did get 43mpg in the city a few years back. With this mod and a few others, I have no doubt I can get 50mpg in the city with this car.

What I get now on average is about 35 mpg in the city and it has about 110k miles.

These are what I want to add later:

pulstar plugs
fuel heater
condensator (pcv output filter)
water gas booster

The only mods I have now for better mileage is just a slighly larger exhaust pipe to relieve some back pressure...not so big it is just a noisemaker. Also, I have a high flow air intake for easier breathing and I have magnets on the fuel line right before going into the intake and RXP fuel additive. With those I did get 43mpg...also, I have AMSOil transmission fluid and engine oil with vacclaisocryptene oil additive (rx oil boost).

Anyway, I'm glad there is an alternative to the circuits that can trick the fuel computer. Those are easy enough to build but this is cheaper and faster.

I agree with Racer, a car you can work on on your own without all the electronic stuff is best. I've had 5 old Z cars and my current one..wrecked from racing...is a 1973 Datsun 240Z with a 2.8 liter engine from a 280Z and a 240z head for higher compression, mallory racing ignition system, triple weber carbs, racing headers and exhaust, etc.... the stock carbs are SU's that I currently have on it the last time I went through inspection. I think these cars at this age are exempt now but I have to tell you...having a lot of engine room (lots of empty space) and just mechanical analog stuff to work on is very very very nice compared to electrical diagnostics and tuning.

Fuel injection, etc... is supposed to be more efficient, etc... but the potential of everything with o2 sensors, etc.. is that they become less fuel efficient, etc...

I saw Chevy's new website and their "most advanced technological" cars they ever had...I saw gas mileage and I get more mileage in the city than the brand new cars get on the highway... and that is with a 16 year old Honda... What are we not being told???
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Old 11-18-2007, 04:11 AM
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Absolutely....

I am also very optimistic about this simple mod. All I can see changing is possibly trying to calibrate this via hole size in the bottom plug and watching what happens via a system monitor. This would let us see what the computer is actually seeing and we could adjust the hole sizes to get our target A/F mixture. This would also be pretty close to universal (not perfect) for everyone to use.

One other neat little thing about this, is since we are not modifying electronics of the O2 sensor, when we start the vehicle it will run in the loop mode (factory A/F settings programed into the ecm.) until the O2 sensor warms up to proper operating temp. This give the "Booster" time to generate Hydrogen.

I believe this will eliminate the main obstical people had with adding boosters to their vehicle's. And that was the thought of having to mess with the electronics of their vehicles.

Last edited by Redmeanie : 11-18-2007 at 04:14 AM.
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Old 11-20-2007, 01:52 PM
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How's It Going?

Aaron,
How is the car running? Any changes in performance? Pinging or sluggish?
Keep us posted...
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Old 11-20-2007, 09:27 PM
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o2 sensor mod results so far

It will be a while until my tank empties. But, I can say absolutely for sure that there is no detonation/pinging or sluggishness whatsoever. There is also a very definite increase in power...less lag time from stepping on the gas...response is quicker. Perhaps with the RXP Generation II additive with a slightly leaner mixture is now optimized for the best combustion. I don't know and it may be in my imagination but I like to think I'm fairly observant. I will definitely post results good or bad at the end of the tank and over a few tanks, I'm sure I'll see the real picture.
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Old 11-21-2007, 01:47 AM
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Great!!!

So Far So Good!!!! Thats Great News.....

Can't Wait to see the findings!

Have you tried any kind of system monitor before? Just curious because I was going to get one so that it would be easier to see what was going on with the entire system and see what each modification was doing in real time.



It seems to do everything I would need and it runs pretty reasonable price wise, even cheaper on eBay.....

Just wanted to know if anyone had any input about how accurate these things are....


Last edited by Redmeanie : 11-22-2007 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 11-21-2007, 04:25 AM
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I love this thread!

Thanks Aaron and everyone else contributing to this thread!

I wish to try this modification to the O2 sensor as well.

First, I am going to Seattle soon (14 hrs from where I am in BC) and will be documenting my highway mileage on this trip so I can get at least a seat of the pants idea of my mileage. Unlike you Aaron, I am very lazy with knowing what MPG my car gets - its already pretty 'good' as stock cars go, so I normally don't worry about it - but I want MORE MPG of course!

I have a 91 Pontiac Grand Prix with a 3.1L V6 in it. Many of these GM V6s got very good MPG in my opinion, considering the size and weight of the cars. In the trade, this is often noted by mechanics regarding these engines.

The cool thing about a FI engine is that there are often knock control systems so that even if it is undergoing preignition, the timing will be set back until the knock stops. However, many FI systems do not use knock sensors but manage preignition through EGR and ignition curve mapping, so that protection system wouldn't help much with aftermarket mods.

Regardless, a careful ear will at least detect the worst knock and then one can do adjustments. Its important to realize though, that the beginning of preignition or even detonation (this is different than preignition) will not be detectable by ear and thus damage can occur before you are aware of it.

However, I believe the mods discussed here are quite viable and I wish to try them when I get back home after the first week in December.
Great pictures and instructions, Aaron, thanks!

I too wish to try the Pulstar plugs but am going to do one mod at a time to see what MPG changes occur. I can tell by my exhaust smell that my Catalytic converter is not working, but it doesn't smell rich. In any case, I am going to test my O2 sensor for proper operation, put new stock plugs in the car as I have a misfire in light accel conditions and though this could be other things, I have never changed them and of course will inspect them first.

LOL, i have to remember the different gallon size when I am in the States at the end of this month so I don't get wonky MPG figures .

I cut my eye teeth on Fuel Injection systems so I see them from the other side of being very aware of how they work and seeing the many pluses of them. If you have a carbureted vehicle, in my opinion, one of the best things you can do to get more MPG right off the bat (since most of these will have many miles on them) is to get it hooked to a gas analyzer and watch your CO reading under cruise conditions. Many times this will be too high and though you won't notice anything driveability-wise, it will definitely be using too much gasoline. Adjusting the needle/seats/jets will bring this back in line. If you say 'but I have a new or rebuilt carb on there', don't be fooled! Those are some of the WORST for being in range of good fuel mileage as this is usually not set up or tested properly - they are just reconditioned.

Good points on the O2 sensor needing to warm up, Redmeanie. Open loop is designed to just get the car running well until the O2 is warmed up, thus the heaters most O2 sensors have nowadays. They want to be in open-loop for as short a time as possible as this is programmed to be on the rich side, and high emissions. It is when the ECM observes the change in V at the O2 that at some point it goes into closed loop. This is important that any mods take this into account, for if we were to modify something and have it stay in open loop - that would be much worse on MPG and emissions!

Once I get to these mods, I will also report asap on any findings!

Peace,

Stephen
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Old 11-22-2007, 08:11 PM
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Sorry to bust your idea but it won't work. How so you may ask? I will tell you. One may take the oxygen sensor and heat it up to say 900 degrees and in the air it will read very little voltage, take the same sensor and subject it to a rich hydrocarbon condition, it will read hi voltage.. thus when you pull the sensor out of the exaust stream you will cause the voltage reading to go down, thus making the computer think its running lean and then it will add more fuel.
Low voltage = lean, hi voltage = rich. Even an exaust leak before the oxygen sensor will make it run lower voltage thus burn more fuel..
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Old 11-22-2007, 08:19 PM
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Actually you have it backwards.....(Cooler exhaust) = RICH and (Hotter Exhaust) = Lean.....This has been used by MANY MANY people when removing the Cat from their vehicles and it seems to work fine for them.

This is being done by others and successfully....Even so much this company
Products of Protium Fuel Systems Research & Development is selling them.......So apparently it works, somehow?


Last edited by Redmeanie : 11-22-2007 at 08:52 PM.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:15 AM
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O2 principles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by biggs View Post
Sorry to bust your idea but it won't work. How so you may ask? I will tell you. One may take the oxygen sensor and heat it up to say 900 degrees and in the air it will read very little voltage, take the same sensor and subject it to a rich hydrocarbon condition, it will read hi voltage.. thus when you pull the sensor out of the exaust stream you will cause the voltage reading to go down, thus making the computer think its running lean and then it will add more fuel.
Low voltage = lean, hi voltage = rich. Even an exaust leak before the oxygen sensor will make it run lower voltage thus burn more fuel..
You are correct - heat up an O2 sensor in the air, and it will produce very little voltage (if any!). But why, might you ask? lol

The common O2 sensor produces current based upon chemical pressure.

The part of the sensor exposed to ambient air (outside O2) is compared to the exhaust stream O2 content with the zirconia ceramic and platinum sensor piece in between them (general design). Since there will always be more oxygen on the ambient side compared to the exhaust side of a running engine, this produces a varying current flow in one direction because the higher oxygen content on the ambient side tries to balance out with the exhaust side to reach equal parts oxygen, but ends up giving up electrons through the sensor/barrier.

Thus, when you hold a sensor up in the air, it has equal parts oxygen on both sides of the catalyst and won't produce voltage. When an O2 sensor is at operating temperature and there is any difference in O2 content on either side of the sensor, such as when an engine is running and using up or combining oxygen into other chemicals through combustion, there will be an increasing voltage. As mentioned already - Higher voltage = Richer exhaust.
Or, if we can somehow reduce the amount of oxygen through some other means, on the exhaust side, then we could effectively fool the ECM into leaning out the mixture to try and bring the voltage down - voila the O2 spacer!

There is a thread where some of this was discussed in detail, including why there even is a swinging rich/lean cycle, here:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ters-cars.html


My concerns regarding most of these modifications are to do with engine life and emissions. Regardless of if 'the Man' is sticking it to people with inefficient systems or not - emissions are drastically affected when fuel ratios are not around stoichiometric (14.7 lbs air to 1 lb of gas). Especially Nox are affected when going leaner, and it is Nox and Hydrocarbons (HC) in the presence of sunlight that produce photochemical smog! That is the main purpose of this fuel ratio for gasoline - the focus on emissions while not killing off all power or mileage.

To me, the bottom line is that internal combustions engines are long obsolete. Even Hybrid systems are obsolete before we get them online, as there are many other alternative-energy technologies that, if governments and manufacturers truly desired change, would have all the effort and money put into their development and with low or zero emissions. The hybrid systems however, are at least a bridge to allow the big corporations and powerbrokers to maintain control over energy aka wealth, which is something they will never willingly give up. Thank god there is hope through the understanding of consciousness and creative living on this planet!

I've been out of the trade for awhile, so if I've made any mistakes in this explanation, any correction is appreciated!

Peace,

tephen
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:33 AM
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Redmeanie Redmeanie is offline
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You Are Right...

Stephen,
You are right on......I could not have explained it better! I started to earlier but as you can see by my previous post I edited, I just didn't have the time. Some people just don't take into consideration "ALL" the things at play here and that under certain circumstances things don't work the way that they are "Meant" to and that you can manipulate "What" they do by changing their original settings or positions.
Oh well you know how it is....Some people just Can't Think Outside the box and just love to shoot things down before they know the "Whole" Picture.

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Old 11-23-2007, 12:53 AM
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Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redmeanie View Post
Stephen,
You are right on......I could not have explained it better! I started to earlier but as you can see by my previous post I edited, I just didn't have the time. Some people just don't take into consideration "ALL" the things at play here and that under certain circumstances things don't work the way that they are "Meant" to and that you can manipulate "What" they do by changing their original settings or positions.
Oh well you know how it is....Some people just Can't Think Outside the box and just love to shoot things down before they know the "Whole" Picture.
I agree that 'thinking outside the box' is the key to going beyond these outdated technologies!

Regardless of all the exciting alternative views out there, the technologies that make it to production in virtually all fields are essentially already outdated and in the process of being replaced by what 'they' are researching and engineering in the lab. In electronics, the new products are often already on the shelf! Thus, all boxes are inside other boxes inside other boxes - or in Russia, they might say dolls within dolls lol.

I prefer to try and assume the stance of Socrates who said 'I am the smartest man in the world - I know nothing'! Even the very explanation that I gave is likely completely wrong to what is actually going on with electron 'flow' considering the many sensible explanations of the interaction with the aether of potential states (high/low) that have been discussed elsewhere on this forum.

I appreciate biggs' comments as they really got me to think about the classical explanation of O2 sensors, thus clearing out a few cobwebs. I hope biggs comes back with some new ideas to challenge or add to those posted here ,for by all of us, we might really get somewhere!

In the end, I highly suspect we will find there never was a box to 'think' out of lol.

In Peace,

tephen
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Old 11-23-2007, 02:49 AM
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Redmeanie Redmeanie is offline
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True, True.....True!!!

I really think that is what make us here on this forum different!

I believe ALL of us have it in us to be a little like Socrates! That is why we are here..... We all think different, and we refuse to just "Accept" things as others do.... I believe we are all into this because we want to Help everyone. And here we openly share everything we learn! (at least most of us )

So absolutely Everyones insight is necessary! And like you, I welcome and look forward to learning something new everyday. "The person who thinks they know everything, Know nothing!"

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Old 11-23-2007, 03:54 AM
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o2 sensor points

The more I learn the more I realize I don't know. I like to take this stance too.

I understand the oxygen influence in a very basic way in relation to the o2 sensor. Little oxygen = rich so it leans the mixture out. Lots of oxygen = lean so it richens the mixture up.

I don't understand the temperature connection very well except that it seems that it needs to be at "normal" operating temp to do its job.

The non-fouler mod will definitely reduce the amount of oxygen getting to the sensor to lean it out. However, the spacer will also most likely reduce the temperature of the sensor as well so how does this really effect it?

Less oxygen so it will lean the mixture using less gas but lower temp will richen back up and break even so no point? That is the two things I see here in conflict with this modification potentially.

Everything I read about this sensor mod is for the 2nd o2 sensor with removal of the catalytic converter, etc... and not for fuel mileage increase. Just that hydrogen website selling the non-foulers as a solution for what I want to accomplish with it...keep the mixture leaner.

The temp thing may be further complicated with the RXP Generation II additive because it causes the exhaust to be lower anyway because of radiant containment methodology and more thorough burning so less heat & less emissions.

If I need more heat in the sensor, I will add my nasa ceramic paint additive to some high temp paint and paint it on the non-fouler spacers and the outside of the o2 sensor and that WILL lock in more temp.

A steam pipe at 400 degrees outside temp dropped to 200 just by being painted with the ceramic additive so this is what I will do if necessary.

No matter what is supposed to happen, often it becomes apparent that real world experience sometimes contradicts what we think will happen and this makes it necessary to actually do the experiment.

After I get through a few tanks, I'll know if I'm using more or less gas and that should answer the fuel mixture question if it does what is supposed to happen. If there is pre-detonation that is undetectable by sound, etc..., I'm sure I can tell by looking at the plugs to see if there is evidence of that. I have NOT looked at the plugs currently to even be able to compare but I may.

Also, the 14.7:1 mixture is also an ideal mixture for a simple spark as far as I understand. With a true burst of plasma like Firestorm plugs, there is enough energy there to fully combust a lean mixture up to 40:1 for practical use and even 100:1 for demo purposes...so it also has to take in to account what is contributing to the release of the mixture lean or not.
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Old 11-23-2007, 02:26 PM
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O2 Sensor Temp

You are right Aaron,
The O2 sensor just needs to heat up to "Operating" Temp....It does not calibrate only according to the temp of the exhaust.... I was just stating that hotter exhaust = a lean mixture and cooler exhaust = a rich mixture to a post left by someone else. I know this from toying around with Turbo cars for awhile.

So don't worry about the "Temp" with the spacers it will certainly get to its proper operating temp and function properly. It just wont see as much O2.


Last edited by Redmeanie : 11-23-2007 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 11-23-2007, 02:39 PM
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O2 Info .....For your enjoyment!

Info on O2 sensors from wikipedia.....Also how stuff works:

If you read through this little bit you will see that the O2 measures, well exactly what it says O2, then compares it with O2 going into the engine.

Temp "of the sensor" has little to do with it except to make sure its at it's operating temp so the readings are accurate.

Automotive applications

Automotive oxygen sensors, colloquially known as an O2 sensors or lambda sensors make modern electronic fuel injection and emission control possible. They determine if the air/fuel ratio exiting a gas-combustion engine is rich(unburnt fuel vapor) or lean(excess oxygen). Closed loop feedback controlled fuel injection means that the fuel injector output is varied according to real-time sensor data rather than operating with a predetermined fuel map (open loop). In addition to improving overall engine operation, they reduce the amounts of both unburnt fuel and oxides of nitrogen from entering the atmosphere. Unburnt fuel is pollution in the form of air born hydrocarbons, while oxides of nitrogen(NOX gases) are a result of excess air in the fuel mixture resulting in smog and acid rain producing compounds.

This information is sent to the engine management ECU computer, which adjusts the mixture to give the engine the best possible fuel economy and lowest possible exhaust emissions. Failure of these sensors, either through normal aging, the use of leaded fuels, or due to fuel contamination with eg. silicones or silicates, can lead to damage of an automobile's catalytic converter and expensive repairs.

Tampering with or modifying the signal that the oxygen sensor sends to the engine computer can be detrimental. When the engine is under low-load conditions (such as when accelerating very gently, or maintaining a constant speed), the engine is operating under 'closed-loop mode'. This refers to a feedback loop between the fuel injectors, and the oxygen sensor, to maintain stoichiometric ratio. If modifications cause the mixture to run lean, there will be a slight increase in fuel economy, but with massive nitrogen oxide emissions, and the risk of damaging the engine due to detonation and excessively high exhaust gas temperatures. If modifications cause the mixture to run rich, then there will be a slight increase in power, again at the risk of overheating and igniting the catalytic converter, while decreasing fuel economy and increasing hydrocarbon emissions.

When an internal combustion engine is under high load (such as when using wide-open throttle) the oxygen sensor no longer operates (it works, but the signal isn't used to make adjustments in relation to fuel trim/control), and the engine automatically enriches the mixture to protect the engine. Any changes in the sensor output will be ignored in this state, while changes from the air flow meter can lower engine performance due to the mixture being too rich or too lean, and increase the risk of engine damage due to detonation if the mixture is too lean.

[edit] Function of a lambda probe

Lambda probes are used to reduce vehicle emissions, by ensuring that engines burn their fuel efficiently and cleanly. Robert Bosch GmbH introduced the first automotive lambda probe in 1976, and it was first used by Volvo and Saab in that year. The sensors were introduced in the US from about 1980, and were required on all models of cars in many countries in Europe in 1993.

By measuring the proportion of oxygen in the remaining exhaust gas, and by knowing the volume and temperature of the air entering the cylinders amongst other things, an ECU can use look-up tables to determine the amount of fuel required to burn at the stoichiometric ratio (14.7:1 air:fuel by mass for gasoline) to ensure complete combustion.

[edit] The probe

The sensor element is a ceramic cylinder plated inside and out with porous platinum electrodes; the whole assembly is protected by a metal gauze. It operates by measuring the difference in oxygen between the exhaust gas and the external air, and generates a voltage or changes its resistance depending on the difference between the two. The sensors only work effectively when heated to approximately 300C, so most newer lambda probes have heating elements encased in the ceramic to bring the ceramic tip up to temperature quickly when the exhaust is cold. The probe typically has four wires attached to it: two for the lambda output, and two for the heater power, although some automakers use a common ground for the sensor element and heaters, resulting in three wires. Earlier non-electrically-heater sensors had one or two wires.

The whole article is here:Oxygen sensor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Old 11-23-2007, 09:43 PM
chewysdad chewysdad is offline
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I'm rebuilding a Jeep 4.0l engine for a Cherokee. I have put Singh Grooves in the head as there are significant mileage improvement claims made for them. SOMENDER-SINGH.com - Home The grooves reduce exhaust temperature and allow the engine to run leaner, but the ECM of a modern engine compensates by adding more fuel because of the O2 sensor. Hence, the quest to fool the O2 sensor which lead me here. My concern is how do you prevent too lean a mixture which can burn up the exhaust valves. If you've ridden in a small plane, the pilot will lean the engine fuel mixture at cruise and use an exhaust gas temperature gauge to do the adjusting. It seems it may do well to have two O2 sensors, one normal and the other "spaced out" (sorry I grew up in the 60's, couldn't resist). With the two sensors you could choose a proportion of each and adjust the mixture, maybe with a potenteometer like choosing more trebel or bass on a stereo. All the way one way would be full lean, all the way the other would be full normal. It may be good to have an EGT gauge to monitor what is going on. I'd hate to spend $1,000 on an engine kit and machine shop work and then go out and burn up the valves. This site is great!
I'm also curious about the PULSTAR plugs. They may be best utilized if the engine timing were retarded some. Once again, how do you change the ECM? On the Jeep I may be abe to shift the CPS-crankshaft position sensor-some as it is mounted on the bell housing, an adjustment of 5 degrees may be possible. - Scott, Chewy's dad.
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Old 11-23-2007, 10:03 PM
chewysdad chewysdad is offline
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Hello again! I remembered, low voltage is lean, high voltage is rich, so simply adding a resistance to the output of the "spaced out" O2 sensor would allow you to enrich the mixture if desired. If what is stated above is correct, moving the sensor out of the exhaust stream will increase the sensor output voltage causing the ECM to lean the mixture in attempt to bring the voltage down. Adding a restance in line would bring the voltage down and the ECM wouldn't lean the mixture as much or at all depending on the amount of resistance. Maybe one of the double Es out there can work up a simple pot plus resistor circuit for us. I believe this is correct because till now fancy circuits were created to add to the O2 output to make the voltage higher so the ECM would lean the mixture. Then we need an inexpensive EGT setup. - Scott
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Old 11-23-2007, 11:26 PM
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electronic circuits for o2 sensor modification

Here are 3 electrical circuits for fooling the computer o2 sensor readings:

http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/oxy...sor_simulator/

Electronic Fuel Injection Enhancer Manual (EFIE) [4901.99.00.503] - $9.00 : Eagle-Research Store

http://better-mileage.com/memberadx.html

I was going to build the Eagle Research circuit but did the non-fouler mod because it is simpler and less expensive. Maybe it works better and more specific and maybe there is a benefit to both.
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Old 11-23-2007, 11:38 PM
chewysdad chewysdad is offline
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Thanks, I hadn't seen the first one which simulates the O2 sensor, the other two I have seen. They are the circuits I mentioned above that ADD a voltage to the O2 sensor output to lean out the mixture. Neither of the latter are what you would want if using the antifouling spacer. These and their complexity are what the spacer allows you to avoid. - Scott
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Old 11-24-2007, 12:22 AM
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Redmeanie Redmeanie is offline
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Interesting Tidbit....

I have been reading in depth any and all info I can find on the O2 sensor and I ran across this interesting side note:

By modifying the O2 position as we are doing here instead of modifying the electronics, under full throttle or heavy load the ecm resorts back to its factory settings and does not use the O2 sensor to calibrate the A/F Ratio.....This is great for our intentions because with a "Booster" or other After Market Mileage Increasing add ons we would not have to worry about the Engine suddenly going to a too lean state. When it resorts back to factory programed settings it is in "Rich" mode until the load or full throttle requirements are relieved.

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Old 11-24-2007, 01:09 AM
chewysdad chewysdad is offline
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That's a great tidbit! I'll do some searching to verify. Not because I don't believe you, just my nature. The information superhighway! I'm constantly amazed! The information on this site is amazing! Thanks!
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Old 11-24-2007, 06:55 PM
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vacuum in non-fouler cavity?

Just an observation, but with this modification, wouldn't the venturi effect create a vaccum in the little non-fouler where the probe is... in that cavity would be negative pressure sucked out by the high pressure exhaust blowing past it right?

That would not only ensure less oxygen if this is the case, but there will probably be no carbon buildup inside at all.

Any comments?
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Old 11-24-2007, 09:33 PM
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I was Thinking Kinda the same thing.....

Aaron,
I was thinking something along those lines also....The Venturi comparison is the perfect way to put it also! That is probably exactly what is going on here, and in that case it would kind of be throttle responsive. Where at idle it would cut fuel but not as much as when cruising at say, Highway speeds.... If that is what is really happening, that would be "Too" Great!
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Old 11-25-2007, 04:07 AM
chewysdad chewysdad is offline
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I'm only assuming, but I believe the O2 sensor must be a sealed unit or close to it or it would present an exhaust gas leak in it's stock configuration. The exhaust gasses in the exhaust pipe traveling past an opening in the side of the pipe would create a pressure drop around the O2 sensor set back in the anti-fouling extension, but I don't see it having any effect.
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Old 11-25-2007, 05:13 AM
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Hmmm...You could have something there

Perhaps we wouldn't get a full vacuum in the Fouler assembly.....Maybe the exhaust would just go "The Least Resistance Way" and blow right by the small opening in the fouler assembly, especially once the pressure inside is at least equal to the exhaust going by..... maybe just circulating the air inside the assembly slightly.....Just enough so the lightest gas molecules do not accumulate inside the assembly?
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Old 11-25-2007, 06:44 AM
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o2 sensor mod is sealed with no leaks

With the double non-fouler mod, it is 100% sealed and there are absolutely no leaks.

Here are the 2 non-foulers on the sensor:


Here it is on the manifold:


As exhaust gas rushes past, the only hole the exhaust gases go by is the hole in the bottom of the non-fouler that is plugged into the manifold. Past that hole, there is the opening of the 1st non-fouler with the tip of the o2 sensor and past that, it is 100% totally sealed. There are zero leaks.

Maybe I misunderstood the comments, but the unit is sealed so based on this, there should be low pressure around the o2 sensor probe.

As far as any effects, I'm just thinking that the exhaust gases rushing past will not be able to really push any oxygen into there since the exhaust gas rushing past will suck anything out of the sealed chamber further reducing the chance of the sensor reading any oxygen at all.
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Old 11-25-2007, 03:31 PM
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Redmeanie Redmeanie is offline
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Would there be a vacuum effect?

You are right it is sealed, thats what we were saying....We were discussing rather the "Venturi" effect would occur inside the assembly or would the exhaust simply by pass the small opening of the assembly and then only minute amounts of gases would actually cycle through the assembly itself...
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