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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2008, 05:44 AM
ghahai ghato ghahai ghato is offline
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New improved FC....

Hi guys... just to update on things;

My recent long trip on the highway FC jumped from 16.3km/L to 20km/L now...
Mods:
Smack type HHO gen at 5amp cold 8 amp hot (200ml/min),
WIS, anti fouler on front O2 sensor, cold air intake + hi-flo air filter...

Now, I'm working on a more efficient unit which splits the electrodes hence seperating the O2 and H2 respectively. This unit will allow me to see what happens when I just pump H2 into the engine...

I'm also thinking of evaporating some lite coconut oil to suppliment the system to see if this will improve the FC further...

Petrol prices jumped 40% since yesterday at my place...
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2008, 10:23 AM
ghahai ghato ghahai ghato is offline
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Improved Town driving FC...

Update...
After a good result on the road trip, I proceeded with an extension to my existing O2 extender; the 1st with a tiny hole stuffed with steel wool and the 2nd with the sensor in it... this made the mixture leaner since I can hear 'pinging' at reverse gear (the 'pinging' does not happen if the car is put into reverse immediately upon startup; auto-choke)
The result from this mod raised my town driving FC from 10km/L to 12.5km/L... Wonder what it'll do on the highway trip....

My HHO unit actually goes through a bubbler then another bubbler with steel wool (to absorb O2) before making its way into another bubbler which is part of my WIS then into the manifold... I've since cleaned the unit twice this week... still conditioning I guess....

Meanwhile, my big bad H2 gen is still far away... been a bit busy with work lately and will be even busier soon....
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2008, 12:43 AM
hydroxyguy hydroxyguy is offline
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Greetings to all.

I know that there are other forums that I could have posted to for information however, from what I have been reading, people here seem to know what they are talking about.

I have been experimenting with HOD for about three months now. I became interested in the subject when my supervisor at work showed me a system that he built and installed in his 1997 Dodge Ram 1500 pickup truck. He states that he is getting about three more miles per gallon which is roughly a 22 per cent increase over his base of 13.6 MPG. Thatís not too bad when you consider that he hasnít even attempted to manipulate the signal from his O2 sensor.

I have since built and installed a similar HOD system in my 1993 Crown Victoria, but because of the O2 sensors there has been little, even though some increase in mileage.

I had thought about trying the spark plug non fouler approach mentioned in this forum however, there is not enough room in the engine compartment to facilitate the repositioning of the O2 sensors so, I will have to try a different approach.

I know that EFIE units can be purchased on eBay and from many other sources on the internet. I have also located four schematics for EFIE circuits if I should choose to build them myself, three of which are based on the 555 timer IC and are relatively easy and inexpensive to make. Eventually, Iím sure that this is what Iíll have to do, but before I go that route, Iím trying every inexpensive method that I can find to manipulate the O2 sensors which brings me to the following technique.

The individual on the following website states that he is an automotive technician for Audi. He talks about manipulating the O2 sensors on an Audi vehicle that uses both pre and main catalytic converters. Even though he is not manipulating the O2 sensors for our purposes here, the approach seems like it may work for our needs as well. Iím wondering if anybody on this forum has seen or tried this approach and if so, have they had any success with it. If this really works, a simple $1.49 (current price) fix from Radio Shack would be too good to be true.

I know that there are a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum and if anyone would know for sure, it would be someone here. Anyway, here is the website. Please check it out and let me know what you think.

AudiWorld Tech Articles

Also, does anyone know where I can locate the O2 sensor wiring diagram for my Crown Vic? My O2 sensors have four wires, two white, one black, and one light blue (or gray, it's hard to tell). I need to find out which one provides the signal to the ECU. It's probably the same configuration as mentioned on the website above, but I need to know for sure. Iíve tried AutoZoneís website, but it doesnít tell me much or maybe Iíve just overlooked it. Iíve tried different searches to try to find the information, but to no avail. Any help locating this information would be greatly appreciated.

One more thing. Has anyone here tried installing a HOD system on a Crown Vic or know of anyone who has? As I get more into this, Iím sure that Iíll be needing more help and advice.

Thanks in advance,

Hydroxyguy
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2008, 01:01 AM
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Aaron Aaron is offline
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o2 sensor mod with diode

Thanks Hydroxyguy,

Posted here in case that site accidentally gets deleted:

Oxygen Sensor Modification Keman 2004 Drugs for your oxygen sensor. Well, not really.

This modification very cheaply fools your secondary (post pre-cat) O2 Sensors into thinking that there is actually a lot less oxygen present than there really is. Why would you want to do this modification?

1. You're running rich
2. Your oxygen sensors are on the fritz.
3. You gutted your precats, took out your main cats while you were at it, didn't want to buy a chip and got tired of that dumb check engine light staring you in the face.

(Not that I'd ever do something like #3. I'm a law abiding citizen and millions of whales would die if you removed your cats. Shame on you! Hehe)

Disclaimer: While I am an Audi technician the modifications listed here are not endorsed by Audi. I provide these instructions based on my own findings and experiments conducted outside of Audi of America, using my own tools in my own garage. If your car blows up after you perform this modification, don't go running to my dealership expecting me to fix it for free. They won't, and I will refuse to acknowledge that anything posted here was created by me.

SO.. You removed your precats and got the dreaded "Precatalyst efficiency below threshold" ... well this will fix it. Chances are you're reading this because you're too cheap to buy a chip that would eliminate this problem (like me), and also too cheap to have purchased WAY overpriced downpipes that have secondary O2 sensor bungs that are behind the main cats. Or maybe you did buy those expensive downpipes and got rid of the main cats too.

The first mistake people often make is trying to trick the ECM by using a resistor inline on the O2 sensor. After all, the "post catalytic" O2 sensors are now outputting 0.95 volts instead of an expected 0.1 to 0.8. A resistor of value X, where value X is whatever your friends brothers son's nephew runs on his Honda with 100% success. The problem is our ECM uses a mega-ohm measurement device, meaning just about no matter what kind of resistance you put in, the full amount of voltage will still be seen. Remember, resistance does not drop voltage, it limits current. If the ECM were to apply a decent load, then resistance would inadvertently drop the voltage it saw. So this is the right idea, but the wrong method.

Next mistake I've seen is a complicated circuit that takes the O2 sensor signals, processes them, and re-transmits them at a lower value. Geeze!!! Talk about overkill. While that will work, how about the most simple and cheap design possible.

1 Standard Diode from radio shack, P/N: 276-1141

The average rectifier diode is a one-way valve. It has a voltage drop when current passes through it, which for the sake of discussion is usually around 0.5 volts. There are millions of different diodes that can greatly alter that figure, but for our purposes we will use that figure because it's exactly what we need. Your precats aren't burning off any of those unburned hydrocarbons when they're laying in a million pieces in the trashcan, so there is plenty of oxygen present as far as the downstream O2 sensors are concerned. They're putting out 0.95 volts. Pass through this lovely $1.29 incarnation, and whee! It's 0.45 volts. What does the ECU expect? 0.45 volts is within perfect specifications.

Common misconception:

- The ECM measures the difference between upstream and downstream and calculates mixture based on that.

Bzzt! Wrong. Maybe on some cars, but not on ours. Those downstream sensors serve only one purpose: Measuring the efficiency of the precats. They honestly don't even measure the main catalysts! Cats age and lose some efficiency over time. If the precats aged and the air/fuel ratio was based off of this, you'd eventually run pig rich or your engine would lean out and predetonate itself to pieces under boost. That would be bad, and stupid. The primary O2 sensors do a perfectly fine job measuring the A/F ratio results.. And that's what they do. We're not going to touch them.

What we are going to do, is touch the post pre-cat O2 sensors. I have to call them that, because they're BEFORE the main cats, but AFTER the little pre-catalysts. Specifically, we're going to modify the wiring harness of the sensors themselves. That way if you decide you want to change back to completely stock, you can just put a new O2 sensor in and the wiring comes with it.

Audi was nice and put the harnesses on the passenger firewall HERE. Green and Brown are your friends. Don't touch the black connectors, those are your good O2 sensors and that's where the real magic of the engine is contained.

Which connector is what?? The side you want to be modifying has pins in sticking out of the connector. If you see flat pins, you're cutting into the sensor side of the harness. If you see 4 flat slots for pins to go into, you're cutting into the ECM side. Bad!

As you can see in the picture, I slid back the rubber boot and cut the BLACK wire. This is the O2 sensor (+) output. Grey is reference voltage, and both whites are the heater circuit. Cut the black wire, crimp in the diode with the silver bar facing the ECM side (towards the connector). If it's backwards, your ECM won't see any voltage at all. So if that happened, now you know why.

Make sure you cut enough of the wire to make up for the length of the conglomeration. It's about 1.5" if you use two crimp connectors and cut the diode leads to about 0.5" long. Bonus points if you heat-shrink this connection, but with the rubber boot slid back around it I really don't think you'll have any corrosion problems here.

Remember, silver bar on the edge of the diode is on the ECM side, not the sensor side. This allows positive voltage to flow from the sensor through the diode to the ECM.

Repeat for both the brown and green connectors (left and right post pre-cat O2 sensors)

And when you're done, the voltage drop occurs and all is good. Clear those codes and enjoy!

Comments? Email me.
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2008, 06:27 AM
ART ART is offline
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update on foulers ALL

REF to my 99 buick 3.1 ran 3 tanks of gas out 2 foulers coupled before the cats at best 1 to 2 mpg increase 31 mpg hwy on the buick not much i removed them both... in addition im re doing my boosters basically same style as my photos but instead of 5 plates -+-+- i converted to 9 plates with garden hose washers as spacers -nnn+nnn- added 6 neutral plates visabily more hydrogen production im using a 1 ohm resistor to keep the charge rate to about 8 amps according to the hydro booster man in ph az neutral plates keep the charge rate down didnt appear to be the case on mine as it cranked in 25 amps to hot...today i installed the rectified diode .45v to my ox sensor sig wire so that will be the max v the computer will see...started up ran for 5 min went for a road test not up to full operating temp yet i bogged down a dozen times on take off but when depressing the throttle appx half way it kicked in and ran good after about 10 min it ran normal good power this diode should give me a 15.1.1 afr better than the 12.7 i think the bogging down was the computer adjusting to the new diode im letting it cool for 3 hours tonight then another road test for results could be not enought fuel enrichment on cold start warm up......just road tested runs good temp gauge wasnt totally cold will give it the cold start test tomorrow morn art
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2008, 11:09 PM
Ronzukin Ronzukin is offline
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Any updates on your project Art?
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2008, 04:08 AM
ghahai ghato ghahai ghato is offline
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O2 extendor works for me...

Yuup...

Anyways, Here's my new update...

Renault Clio 1.2 Manual
Homemade HHO gen <200ml/min
Cold 4amp Hot 8amp
O2 extender x 1 + tin foil wrap outer sensor
Highway from 16 to 20km/L
Super Urban still same at 10km/L

Tried
o2 extender X 2 + tin foil wrap outer sensor
Highway almost 23km/L
Super Urban at 11km/L
Problem : Highway drive was sluggish and powerless....
I think I'm not putting enough HHO gas as I've leaned out the mixture so....

Today....
Bought a HHO gen for $150 and putting it to test...
(Nice full cylinrical stailess steel built)
Water displacement showed 500 - 750ml/min...
Cold 9amp Hot 16amp?
Going back to x1 O2 extender....

Will post result...

Good luck to all....
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2008, 04:18 AM
ghahai ghato ghahai ghato is offline
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O2 extendor works for me...

Yuup...

Anyways, Here's my new update...

Renault Clio 1.2 Manual
Homemade HHO gen <200ml/min
Cold 4amp Hot 8amp
O2 extender x 1 + tin foil wrap outer sensor
Highway from 16 to 20km/L
Super Urban still same at 10km/L

Tried
o2 extender X 2 + tin foil wrap outer sensor
Highway almost 23km/L
Super Urban at 11km/L
Problem : Highway drive was sluggish and powerless....
I think I'm not putting enough HHO gas as I've leaned out the mixture so....

Today....
Bought a HHO gen for $150 and putting it to test...
(Nice full cylinrical stailess steel built)
Water displacement showed 500 - 750ml/min...
Cold 9amp Hot 16amp?
Going back to x1 O2 extender....

Will post result...

Good luck to all....
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2008, 03:18 PM
west_beach west_beach is offline
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True

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redmeanie View Post
All you need to do is an EFIE device on your Pre Cat O2 Sensors. I will be posting a Circuit that anyone can build so you wont have to buy them at about $50 a piece, they can be made for about $15 each.

The reasoning on just modifying the O2 sensors is that they are the sensors used during "Closed Loop" ECU functioning. The MAF sensor is used during "Open Loop" mode so what happens if you mess with these sensors is your ECU will always stay in open loop mode where the ecu shoots "Rich" then "Lean" to hit a Target A/F Ratio and never goes into closed loop which is where your ECU is functioning at the Best A/F Ratio at all times.
This happens in Order, when your car first starts it's in open loop until it figures the required info from all the sensors needed in open loop, i.e Temp, Altitude, and even some vehicles measure the Fuel combustion (octane) to calculate timing and pulse rate of the injectors. Once that has all been done the ECU will go into "Closed Loop" which then basically is adjusting A/F ratio's off of the O2 sensors.

So what the EFIE device does is takes the incoming (True) signal from the O2 Sensor and add's or subtracts minuscule amounts of voltage to that signal and feeds it back to the ECU so it always thinks it is running at the Factory set target. This is done during closed loop so it never reverts back to the Open Loop State because it always sees the "Correct" A/F Ratio.

Allot of devices operate by manipulating the MAF sensor Signal Also, But these are generally used in Performance Applications where they are wanting "More" fuel and are not concerned with accurate "Open Loop" sensor readings. But in our case I would not want to mess with the "Open Loop" sensors because if we do it will be counter productive in the long run when the O2 sensor reading is all we need to change. Think about it would you want the ECU changing Timing and Injector pulse rates based off of a modified signal? Also your ecu would never go into "Closed Loop" so your gains would be minimal. Only time I would even consider altering the MAF sensor signal would be If the Vehicle I was working on had a Wide Band O2 sensor and was forced not to use the EFIE Device. Then I would only expect maybe a 10% to 15% gain in Fuel Economy Also.

Hope That Helps!

RedMeanie's comments are exactly what I experienced.
After installing my homemade water4gas starter kit generator, I hooked up the MAP sensor "Enhancer" on my 2003 Neon according to instructions. The engine raced, then bogged, then raced, then bogged, etc.

At red lights I often stalled which was quite hazzardous.

I removed the MAP Sensor "Enhancer" and found this site. I am awaiting the EFIE from RedMeanie.

Meanwhile I put a double extender on my single o2 sensor and have experienced ZERO gains after 2 tanks.

For the Senior Members: don't fret, I will be moving to more advanced methods than the starter kit after I find success in raising MPG. I have a bus-load of people waiting for me to make this happen.
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2008, 09:21 AM
ART ART is offline
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permalink /all update

after giving this some thought i drove my 99 buick for a few days after 20 miles it was kicking on the check eng light i reset it a few times but it kicked back on i believe the .45v rectified diode hooked up between the oxy sensor on the signal wire did lean it out to a point but the computer wont axcept it totally the preformance was good but it accumlated 4 different trouble codes i opted to remove it because i decided that i could drive it that way but should another unrelated serious eng problem develope i would not be aware of it so currently i reinstalled the two adpts i think i can live with 31-32mpg one problem here my wife drives this one and i dont expect her to fiddle with elect tweeking it would take to make happen for about $150 it would work... currently concentration on the maverick with dual boosters eng overhaul comming up shortly..footnote a friend of my son who works in his dads auto shop are gitting into hyd booster instalation when i learn more from them i will pass it on art
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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2009, 06:48 PM
peerow1@netzero.com peerow1@netzero.com is offline
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new to this

i've got a 01 blazer and there is no place at all to install anything. i did manage to get a quart jar to hook up a brown gas setup. i would like to know if the brown gas is enough extra energy to put extenders on without harming the engine. and if the brown gas got weak while on the road sometime would it do harm. is there an additive to help allso. i am very green with this stuff and would sure like some advice on this. i have read a lot here but a lot is over my head. thanks a lot.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2009, 07:22 AM
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rickoff rickoff is offline
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Reply to Peerow1:

Quote:
Originally Posted by peerow1@netzero.com View Post
i've got a 01 blazer and there is no place at all to install anything. i did manage to get a quart jar to hook up a brown gas setup. i would like to know if the brown gas is enough extra energy to put extenders on without harming the engine. and if the brown gas got weak while on the road sometime would it do harm. is there an additive to help allso. i am very green with this stuff and would sure like some advice on this. i have read a lot here but a lot is over my head. thanks a lot.
Peerow, if you are using a glass jar for Hydrogen generation then please be advised that this is extremely dangerous. Far better to build one of the safer and better booster designs using plans that are freely available, or to buy a ready made unit if you don't feel comfortable building one. Just about anything you would want to know about Hydrogen boosters and Hydrogen as fuel can be found here in several different threads, and there are many links to further information. Pretty much anything you can think of has already been discussed, and you just need to sift through the appropriate threads. Try a search using the word "Hydrogen," or "Booster," and you will find a great deal of useful information. Whatever you decide to go with, make safety your first and foremost objective. Hydrogen can explode with great force, and a sealed glass container becomes nothing less than a glass shrapnel bomb. When you do find something suitable to install on your Blazer, consider mounting it out on top of the front bumper. It will be safer, and run cooler, than in the engine compartment, and will also be easier to service. Be sure to use at least 1 bubbler between the booster and the engine intake, and use 2 bubblers if the distance of your intake line is more than 3 feet. Additional safety devices, such as one-way check valves, use of a 30 amp circuit breaker, and automatic shutoff when the engine stops, should all be considered essential items. Learn all that you can before you start experimenting with Hydrogen.

Good luck to you,

Rick

Last edited by rickoff : 06-18-2010 at 05:26 AM. Reason: sp
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2009, 02:06 PM
peerow1@netzero.com peerow1@netzero.com is offline
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thanks a lot rickoff, i will do more reading and research. as i said i am a newbe at this.
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2010, 05:53 PM
GTRay GTRay is offline
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I've recently stumbled across this forum and have noticed a number of trends that are strikingly similar to the aftermarket performance segment 20 years ago. I am noticing a lot of the techniques and methodologies are virtually identical to the learning curve that tuners went through in the late 80's and 90's.

I think most of what they learned all those years ago to boost the horsepower and "efficiency" of their engines can be applied to "boosting" the efficiency (fuel consumption) of your applications.

I think the most dramatic changes came with the spread of relatively inexpensive standalone engine management systems. It was learned quite some time ago that trying to manipulate the factory EFI system to produce the results you desired in performance lead to a lot of broken parts and empty wallets.

This is my background, I'd personally rather build a car to accelerate quicker and handle better because it is more enjoyable, however I am also interested extracting peak efficiency from any particular engine.

I believe that a more solid understanding of modern EFI systems is required before anyone starts making changes to integral systems without completely understanding the upside and downside to those changes. The systems on the market today supplied by the OEM make use of certain sensors in ways that weren't even considered when those sensors were originally engineered.

Take the O2 sensor for example. More and more sensors on the market today that are used in OE applications are known as "wideband" O2 sensors. These sensors work on a 5 volt reference signal, not your standard 1 volt signal that many of you seem to be familiar with. This increase in voltage can be considered as an increase in resolution. The increase in resolution allows tuners to evaluate precise AFR (air fuel ratios), often as rich as 9.0:1 to as lean as 25.0:1. The old 1 wire sensors operate in a very narrow bandwidth and like to home in on a target AFR that is within their efficiency range. Modern systems can now be tailored to target specific AFR's.

These modern systems also operate in a slightly more complex fashion than their earlier variants. Modern systems incorporate what is referred to as fuel trim tables. OBDII compliant vehicles incorporate a "long" and a "short" term fuel trim. These tables are referred to by the ECU in closed loop status in order to achieve the target AFR for the given scenario. Even if you try to manipulate the signal from the O2 sensor to the computer it will eventually find its way back to "normal" as it calls on its tables to increase or decrease injector pulsewidth by the necessary percentages. After 2 drive cycles the computer will know that there is a problem that needs to be addressed and may throw a code.

My suggestions to anyone seeking to substantially increase their fuel mileage would be to look into the prospects of standalone engine management. These systems will give you complete control over your state of tune and allow you to take command of not only the results you desire but the way in which you achieve it.

Imagine controlling the actual duty cycle (pulsewidth) of your fuel injectors, setting the desired AFR for cruising, setting the desired compensations for ambient temperature, intake air temp, manifold absolute pressure, barometric pressure, coolant temperature and being able to sett the timing curves exactly the way you want in order to achieve maximum efficiency.

I'll be perfectly honest, done properly it will be VERY difficult to completely tune a vehicle in otherwise stock trim and do BETTER than the OEM did without risking damage to other components like catalytic converters but for the older vehicles in the OBDI category gains can definitely be made.

One last bit to consider is that most of these systems will have auxiliary outputs and inputs that utilize PWM (pulse width modulated) channels. These channels can be used to control items like HHO generators and will allow complete integration of the unit into the fuel delivery system. This way the computer can be made "aware" of the change and thereby directly compensated for without having to manipulate or trick the computer.

thoughts?

Ray
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2011, 06:22 PM
danielsatur danielsatur is offline
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H2O simulator (down stream)

If your catalytic converter is blown, get rid of the broken pieces.
The H20 mod simulator is used down stream to tell the ECU, that the cat is good!
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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2011, 07:19 PM
jtanguay jtanguay is offline
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I'd just like to add that some of the newer vehicles are 'smart' and can actually tell if you're trying to fool the oxygen sensor. It uses all of the other sensors to get an 'idea' of how much oxygen should be moving through and will start to estimate/guess from pre-programmed logic to thwart our efforts. An example would be if it was 0 degrees celcius outside and the oxygen sensor is reading barely anything and the engine is running lean. The computer will think there is a problem with the o2 sensor and then compensate. Not all ECU's have this built in but most do.

This EFIE enhancer is digital and will completely fool the ECU! You could make the engine think it is in a heat wave when the temperature is freezing (not recommended, just illustrating what kind of power you can have). I've also heard of people tuning in this way to get in excess of 50 hp+.

I've also heard of substantial mileage gains using 100% acetone when the mixture is rich. I think it has to do with helping the gasoline evaporate quicker, as it is the gas vapour that ignites. I've also heard horror stories of it plugging up injectors, but that could be the solvent aspect just cleaning out deposits and then getting stuck in the injector bodies. For the life of me I cannot see how acetone would kill an injector unless they were specifically designed with a material that breaks down/dissolves even with minute exposure to acetone.

Now once we get 60mpg+ we can then use the money saved and start working on other things to save even more. Have to learn to walk before we can run, right?
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2011, 06:57 PM
vintageant vintageant is offline
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CEL code shows catalyst below threshold Bank 1

Can this non-fouler O2 sensor mod work on the downstream sensor by the cat converter? My CEL has been coming on & off intermittently for several months. Avg MPG since 2006 has been 26.4 and it remains the same.
One non-fouler, or two, as described?
Objective is to turn CEL off.

2003 Honda Accord I-4
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2011, 11:33 AM
geotron geotron is offline
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This is all highly interesting... the furthest I've read so
far is on using the sparkplug inhibitors to allow a change of
reading on the o2 sensor.

When vaporized fuel is sent in a measured concentration through
the air intake valve, as hho is in a booster device, wouldn't
this effectively serve to act as an effective fuel supply
system?

Through obtaining a sample of properly balanced exhaust into
some manner of storage device, couldn't this be added into a sealed
container with the o2 sensor to obtain a permanent setting
on the circuitry preset at its factory programmed static fuel
ratio?

Surely in order to modify the engine to have a convenient knob
attached allowing one to tune their engine by hand in this respect
it would require the automakers to lift a little higher.
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2012, 03:42 PM
radioranger radioranger is offline
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probable improved performance less restriction

I swapped the O 2 sensors in my thunderbird 4.6 and while doing it I noticed they occupy probably 20 percent of the airway ion the exhaust manifold, so a spacer ,may relieve a good amount of back pressure, could be the cause of a performance improvement and mileage improvement as well . any comments on this thought ?
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2012, 09:20 PM
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Aaron Aaron is offline
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o2 sensor modifications

Haven't thought about it but they do take up some good space.

I'm currently testing something that may make all o2 sensor mods obsolete. This will take another 6 weeks or so before I know if it works as claimed.
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  #111 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2012, 02:51 AM
geotron geotron is offline
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Doesn't it seem like a sample of normal exhaust could be captured in a
container of some kind and used as a medium in which to store the O2 sensor
for keeping the computer from changing the engine's running parameters?
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  #112 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2012, 05:49 AM
Bcove10 Bcove10 is offline
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New topic question on oxygen sensors

I'm working on my on personal vehicle. I'm currently having an issue with my catalytic converter. The car has two converters, and on this particular OBDII system only the front converter is monitored. There is an oxygen sensor before and behind the front converter making the second converter on my vehicle just there for the ride it is not monitored. The front cat is very expensive so I came up with a cheaper solution, I'm just not sure if it's legal. I cannot replace the front cat with a universal cat because the angle makes it impossible. I can very easily cut the second converter underneath the vehicle and weld a new OBDII converter in its exact same spot. Now here is where I'm concerned with the legal issue. I'm not removing a converter and then not putting one banc on, I'm simply just cutting an OBDI converter off and replacing it was a new OBDII converter. Now to complete my theory to keep my check engine light off, I now would take the downstream oxygen sensor, lengthen the wires so it would be able be screwed Into my newly replaced OBDII universal converter. My main concern is, is this legal to lengthen the downstream oxygen sensors to move further back on the vehicle. Sorry the post is long, I came up with this theory and I cannot find any info concerning oxygen sensors.
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  #113 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2012, 02:31 PM
HairBear HairBear is offline
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Sometimes, it is easier to ask for forgiveness than it is for permission. I was told or read that any modification of the emissions system is illegal. In fact, you may even have a sticker inside the hood of the vehicle stating such rules.
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  #114 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2012, 07:25 PM
Bcove10 Bcove10 is offline
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Oxygen sensors

I agree it would be easier to do it and play dumb later. Ive done a lot of research on emissions and I've found rules, laws, regulations all concerning converter with none of them saying anything to do with the oxygen sensor. I just wasn't sure if anyone knew the real laws concerning not the converter just the oxygen sensor.

Last edited by Bcove10 : 03-10-2012 at 07:28 PM.
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  #115 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2012, 12:27 AM
HairBear HairBear is offline
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Laws Against Tampering With O2 Sensors

"Tampering with a vehicle's O2 sensor (otherwise known as oxygen or lambda sensor) in any way that alters its operation and can limit its ability to help control the vehicle's emissions, and thus is illegal in many states with strict emission control standards. Furthermore, the Federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) requires manufacturers to produce components in certain ways that make it impossible for owners to tamper inadvertently with the emission control system."
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  #116 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2012, 04:30 PM
Bcove10 Bcove10 is offline
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Oxygen sensor

Yes and my idea would fall under the anyway tampering with the oxygen sensor. Because I'm not eliminating one I'm not fooling the computer emissions sensors. I would be removing an OBDI converter replacing it with and OBDII converter which there is not illegal at all, then lengthen my oxygen sensor bank one sensor two so it would not be long enought to screw into the newly replace OBDII Cconveter. The car started out with only one converter being monitored the front one with the second one just there. So basically in the end that's what I still have its just reversed. Now it's like the the manifold cat is the OBDI cat not monitored and just there for the ride, and the second cat which I would be replacing with a OBDII certified cat now is the one being monitored. So the vehicle is still operating as it should the exhaust it's still being mad safe for the environment. There would be no dummy sensor. The oxygen sensor loop would be closed not open. The exhaust would be monitoried before an oxygen sensor and then monitored again after traveling thought a converter OBDII And the second sensors would receive an accurate reading to determine if all is good. The law you found which is very helpful and I thank you for helping me research is about the people who think they have drag racing cars and wanr to removE their converters or trick the computer. I would not being doing that, my vehicle would still have the exhaust flow monitored by two sensors one before entering a converting and one after. I just don't have the 1200 for the front cat to pass inspection but I capabilities of doing my theory solely creating on the lack of funds. I'm not tampering. The second sensors is about one inch too short from me even having to lenghing it and then what would the law be. What if I didn't have to lengthen the sensor , what if is stretched and just fit do you think now my theory would be legal now? Again thank you for reading and finding what you have found for me it's frustrating , I'm not trying to turn my vehicle into a illegal dragster I'm trying to pass inspection instead of 1200 then me just installing the cat. I can do what I'm talking about for less than 100 dollars.
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