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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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  #1  
Old 03-11-2013, 02:58 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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History Help Needed

I am looking for a patent that I had at one time from about 1916 of a car and a system that was proposed to run on water (or HHO).

The patent had picture in it of the entire car with man standing next to it and cut away of the cars fuel system showing a cell of plates that was powered by a the cars generator.

It was issued around 1916 - 1920.

I spoke to several others who have seen it and I used to have a copy but it since has disappeared.

If anybody knows this patents and can post a link or email it please do so. I need this. It not for a replication but a history report of sorts.

Thanks
Matt
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:40 PM
Jeff Pearson Jeff Pearson is offline
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Louis Enricht claimed to have a water car in 1916. He was later convicted of fraud. He was adding something to the water and putting it in the gas tank. Sorry I dont have more info.
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:51 PM
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Possibly one in this document ? It was too big to put up here (just about 7 Megabytes) so I put it here: Download Suppressed-and-Incredible-Inventions.pdf from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:45 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Thanks for the extras all. Still haven't found the one I am looking for but I will.

I am trying to find anything also that was patented or would be found in "Text Book" type publication. A lot of references, understandably, do not show up except in personal type history blog's or small current articles with no reference, so it would understandable again if no one believed it.

So anything that has documentation would also be welcome. I do have pretty good list going already after combing through the patent office US, UK and now working on Europe.

But I appreciate any input.

Just for your info we are working on a talking points project for various spokes people in environmental who have no rebuttal for the statement "We have nothing that can directly replace fossil fuels in vehicles".

In other woods we do not want that to be the last word.

Matt
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:08 PM
Stealth Stealth is offline
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Mine is missplaced also

I used to have that one also, but have not been able to find it recently. I will take another look at my reference materials later, when I get time. Currently, the oldest patent I was able to find was the Bob Neal patent dated Jan. 9,1934. It is patent number 2,030,759. If I find the other one, I will post it . Good Luck. stealth
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:50 AM
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wasnt it with built with one of john keely's engines?
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:54 AM
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Water-fueled car
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:59 AM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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I don't think so. It was just another inventor I had never heard his name. Still haven't found it.

It kinda bothers because I had a copy at one time and it all just disappeared, and that is most peoples story.

I hope it shows up soon.

Matt
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Old 03-30-2013, 06:33 PM
Jeff Pearson Jeff Pearson is offline
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Found it I think. Charles Frazer. patent applied for 1916, granted 1918. patent #1262034. Not a water car per se but is a patent for a hydroxy booster. It was mixed in with the Ozzy Freedom Water4Gas extras
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:34 AM
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From Empire Hydrogen Energy Systems:

"The Charles Frazer Hydroxy Generator
On April 9, 1918, Charles H. Frazer acquired the first US Patent on a hydrogen-oxygen generating cell used to enhance the performance of an internal combustion engine.
In his patent application, Mr. Frazer claimed the device:
1 - Increased efficiency of the internal combustion engine.
2 - Allowed complete combustion of volatile hydrocarbons.
3 - Eliminated carbon deposits within the engine.
4 - Allows the use of a lower grade of fuel with improved performance.
He found that hydrogen boosters work best with low grade fuels. His public demonstrations of the device were reported in newspapers and then the product disappeared.
There were charges that the technology was suppressed or even stolen by the oil companies because they thought it could threaten the sale of their products. But in 1918 fuel was cheap and there was little concern for the environment, and therefore no demand for the product."

http://empirehydrogen.com/docs/FrazerPatent.pdf
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:03 PM
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No I have that one this patent had a cutaway of a whole car with a man standing next to it. I still have not found it but I have found 20 or so people who have seen it.

It just disappeared!!!

Keep trying though.

Thanks A lot though, I appreciate any help with this.
Matt
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:11 AM
shylo shylo is offline
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Float valve

Hi Matt, hope somebody can find that soon.
That last patent , showed just 2 electrodes in seprated compartments,when the float comes down , it seals the 2 chambers off from each other??
I've seen lots of things that need plates or spirials, this just seems to have 2 electrodes.
I read the expression "KISS", Something we should tell ourselves everyday.
Thanks for the thread , lots of good info.
shylo
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:56 PM
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I did some more digging. I may be on to something for you Matt. I'll know in a few minutes as it's either a very big download or a very slow one. It's a book that covers history of Water powered cars and it has info on what they say is the first water powered car in 1908. I have the impression this is a PDF of images of the book so probably not directly searchable. Hopefully it will have some info of value.

Well darn I can't see any such picture. It is images so not directly searchable but I went through about the first half well into the 1940's plus as it's a history of water cars in chronological order. Closest was the one already mentioned of Frazer in 1916 and this book does show copies of many patents. If you want it here's where to get it - slow download though - about 15 minutes with DSL : http://79.170.40.49/watercar.ch/lich..._into_fuel.pdf

Book is by author James A. Robey.
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:57 PM
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Electrical Experimentor 1917

Could this be the page you are looking for, it even quotes figures regarding the performance compared to normal fuel. Regards Arto
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1917hho1.jpg (678.1 KB, 21 views)
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:51 PM
shylo shylo is offline
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special dynamo

I don't know if that's the one or not ,but I sure would like to see some info on that unipolar dynamo.
Is it the same as just spinning the same pole magnet past a coil?
I've noticed that with alternating magnets, that one side of the wave is stronger than the other
I like that old stuff, it seems so much simpler
thanks artoj, shylo
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:14 AM
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Electrical Experimentor 1917

Here is the rest of the article, regards Arto.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1917hho2.jpg (210.4 KB, 22 views)
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:39 AM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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@Ewizard
Its not in that paper but I appreciate you posting it. Thanks

@Artoj.
That definitely looks closer than anything yet, and I have not seen that article. I'll start searching around that. I am really grateful for you posting that, thanks a bunch.

I do not understand why this paper has just disappeared. Many people have seen it but strangely they cannot find it either.

Thanks again for everything.

Matt
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:42 PM
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Punches

Quote:
Originally Posted by artoj View Post
Could this be the page you are looking for, it even quotes figures regarding the performance compared to normal fuel. Regards Arto
Arto,

I actually have this guy's patent (Ernest Punches) - was going to put it in the next update of my water report - but this is the first time I've seen this article - maybe I'll include that too.

US1283891 is the patent number for anyone interested. Meyer may have gotten his initial ideas from this guy. Would have been hard to come by in Meyer's days before the internet unless he want to one of the few patent repositories around the country but anyone determined enough...
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:03 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Hey Aaron I get patent for Mixing devices under that number. Do you have copy of the patent you could share or send me. I'll keep for this project only if you need me too.

I appreciate it.
Matt
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:06 PM
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mixing device patent

Matthew,

Yes, that's the right patent.

That mixing device is to mix the hydrogen gas from water with ambient air and that creates a very combustible mixture that is suitable for running an engine. He also describes the device as being similar to a carburetor. It is the patent that covers the concepts written in that article.

Meyer describes his mixing device as mixing the exhaust with the HHO but in the diagrams, it is entirely all too clear that he is passing the exhaust through a venturi to pull the HHO out under negative pressure.

Anyway, the concepts are basically the same.
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