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  #1  
Old 01-06-2013, 02:59 AM
logos logos is offline
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HVDC the elite's new scam?

HVDC = high voltage direct current
i came across an article in researching photovoltaic power for a project i am working on.

i quote
" To export renewable energy produced in the MENA desert region, a high-voltage direct current (HVDC) electric power transmission system is needed.[61] High Voltage DC (HVDC) technology is a proven and economical method of power transmission over very long distances and also a trusted method to connectasynchronous grids or grids of different frequencies. With HVDC energy can also be transported in both directions.[62] For long-distance transmission HVDC suffers lower electrical losses than alternating current (AC) transmission. Because of the higher solar radiation in MENA, the production of energy, even with the included transmissions losses, is still advantageous over the production in South Europe"

is this for real? didnt edison use DC stations to transmit current and tesla figured out that it was a waste of resources?

is the future already looking grim?
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  #2  
Old 01-06-2013, 04:46 AM
mikrovolt mikrovolt is offline
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different methods have different trade offs.
Like electric trains different forms of electricity have been used.
Railway electrification system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you are off grid possibly a washing machine motor might be simular for example an electric motorcycles uses 1500 watt 48V may work better than 12V system. The small system can pay for itself and continue it's usefulness for many years.

In developing a utility company smart grid the complexity of having many non standard voltages inclines feasibility study not favorable so the voltage becomes a big question that can put off progress and slow down needed changes for many terrawatt hours.
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  #3  
Old 01-06-2013, 01:39 PM
Ernst Ernst is offline
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Quote:
is the future already looking grim?
No.

The future is looking bright

Because soon we will have a telluric transmission system and we can scrap all those transmission lines.

They just don't know it yet.

Ernst.
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  #4  
Old 01-09-2013, 10:36 PM
logos logos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernst View Post
No.

The future is looking bright

Because soon we will have a telluric transmission system and we can scrap all those transmission lines.

They just don't know it yet.

Ernst.

biggup!!
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  #5  
Old 01-10-2013, 09:10 AM
phi1.62 phi1.62 is offline
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HVDC transmission systems have been around since the 1950's, so you could hardly call it a "new" scam. The technology has developed to a stage where transmission losses are less than 3% per 1000 km. The reason why the losses are so low is since it is a DC system you eliminate losses associated with Reactance and are only concerned with resistive losses. Also AC transmission systems begin to have higher losses after several hundred km's due to Standing Waves, which is the reason why you'll see HVDC lines over 1000 km long.

Edison's DC system was unsuccessful because the voltages he was transmitting at were too low and there was no effective means to raise or lower DC voltages at the time, hence the success of Tesla's Polyphase system.

In regards to Tesla's wireless power system the problem is that you would need a large amount of money to prove it was practical and the transmission losses were as low as Tesla stated. While he did state that power could be transmitted with over 99% efficiency the system required 75 KW to function, therefore you wouldn't get the 99% efficiency until you were transmitting 7.43 MW or greater.
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:05 AM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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Just some random thoughts on this...
When you get an AC shock, the polarity swap of 50/60Hz sends you jumping startled immediately away from it. But, with DC you stick to the thing shocking you because of the non reversal of current direction ?


I'm reminded of a childhood friend who jerry rigged an extension to his record player out on his front lawn and got stuck to the thing while he screamed in literal shock. Wish I had photo memory and could remember what it was that he did grab, but think it was both sides of the large transformer. Course, he could have been play acting.

Would all electrical appliances have to be rewired or do you think they'd convert back to AC nearer to the population centers ?
For the conspiracy theorists, would that dictate everyone would have to live in cities ?

I dunno, just a few things that I don't have answers to
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  #7  
Old 01-13-2013, 01:45 AM
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citfta citfta is online now
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Hi Slider,

Actually just the opposite happens. The AC causes your muscles to contract which is bad news if you happen to have grabbed the hot wire. This AC is what can also cause your heart to stop beating correctly and kill you that way too. DC travels pretty much through the path of least resistance which means it will go through the deeper parts of your body but it does not grab you like AC. The real danger of DC is it causes internal burns. I have had some pretty solid shocks from both. I once got hold of a hot wire that was supposed to be dead and the only way I got loose was by getting my foot up and kicking the wire away. Working on a TV one time I accidentally touched a terminal that had about 750 volts DC while my little finger was touching ground. That made a small hole in both my fingers and my hand was sore inside for almost a week.

Respectfully,
Carroll
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:44 AM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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Thanks Carroll
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:08 PM
logos logos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slider2732 View Post
Just some random thoughts on this...
When you get an AC shock, the polarity swap of 50/60Hz sends you jumping startled immediately away from it. But, with DC you stick to the thing shocking you because of the non reversal of current direction ?


I'm reminded of a childhood friend who jerry rigged an extension to his record player out on his front lawn and got stuck to the thing while he screamed in literal shock. Wish I had photo memory and could remember what it was that he did grab, but think it was both sides of the large transformer. Course, he could have been play acting.

Would all electrical appliances have to be rewired or do you think they'd convert back to AC nearer to the population centers ?
For the conspiracy theorists, would that dictate everyone would have to live in cities ?

I dunno, just a few things that I don't have answers to
i think they will be converted into usuable AC current eventually slider.

this is part of a huge photovoltaic system that's happening in north africa / Middle east. i'm involved in a company that is looking to do work out there!
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  #10  
Old 01-14-2013, 12:47 AM
Ernst Ernst is offline
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Quote:
In regards to Tesla's wireless power system the problem is that you would need a large amount of money to prove it was practical and the transmission losses were as low as Tesla stated. While he did state that power could be transmitted with over 99% efficiency the system required 75 KW to function, therefore you wouldn't get the 99% efficiency until you were transmitting 7.43 MW or greater.
My idea/plan is to prove first that it works at all. This should not be too difficult nor expensive.
I believe Eric Dollard once did a coast to coast transmission (audio not energy) before? I am thinking about 1 Km first, then 600 Km, then 10.000 Km. Only the last one would be a public event. As to the power required, I think there will be a thresshold below which no transfer will happen, and above that it will suffer some losses. No matter, if only I can light a LED or luminous tube, that would do for the demo. Concerning the money required, we have financial backing up to about 50K EUR.
We should be able to get this done, I guess. After a successfull demo we should attract more funds and things will get moving.

Ernst.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:18 AM
phi1.62 phi1.62 is offline
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Personally I think for 50K EUR you'd only have enough to build the transmitting and receiving coils, you'd still need to spend money on the power supply, transmitting and receiving towers and the earthing system, which requires the use of liquid nitrogen. Nor do I think that a lightbulb would be enough to impress people that useful amounts can be transmitted with such a system, even it is for more than a kilometre.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slider2732 View Post
Just some random thoughts on this...
When you get an AC shock, the polarity swap of 50/60Hz sends you jumping startled immediately away from it. But, with DC you stick to the thing shocking you because of the non reversal of current direction ?


I'm reminded of a childhood friend who jerry rigged an extension to his record player out on his front lawn and got stuck to the thing while he screamed in literal shock. Wish I had photo memory and could remember what it was that he did grab, but think it was both sides of the large transformer. Course, he could have been play acting.

Would all electrical appliances have to be rewired or do you think they'd convert back to AC nearer to the population centers ?
For the conspiracy theorists, would that dictate everyone would have to live in cities ?

I dunno, just a few things that I don't have answers to
HVDC systems convert the DC back to AC using thyristor banks. Because of this harmonics can be a problem.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:53 AM
Ernst Ernst is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phi1.62 View Post
Personally I think for 50K EUR you'd only have enough to build the transmitting and receiving coils, you'd still need to spend money on the power supply, transmitting and receiving towers and the earthing system, which requires the use of liquid nitrogen. Nor do I think that a lightbulb would be enough to impress people that useful amounts can be transmitted with such a system, even it is for more than a kilometre.
I guess we can safely assume that I am more optimistic.

Ernst.
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Last edited by Ernst; 01-15-2013 at 05:05 AM. Reason: typo
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