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  #1  
Old 10-31-2012, 06:38 PM
slapstick slapstick is offline
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Friction heater running in my house

This friction heater I have built costs me around 5 cents a hour to run @ 14 cents a kilowatt. The inside temp of my house is at 70F day and night, the out side is around 30F to 10F. That would be a delta T between 40F and 60F. My house is around 1250 sq. ft.
Here is my youtube Chanel where I post my videos on it.
Running my friction heater in my house - YouTube
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  #2  
Old 10-31-2012, 07:06 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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Very nice build. This is with many rounded plates from inside as I saw the other vid. What if those non movable plates would be one with those rings so that you're be sure that they're not moving?
Thanks for sharing.
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  #3  
Old 10-31-2012, 10:27 PM
slapstick slapstick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruji View Post
Very nice build. This is with many rounded plates from inside as I saw the other vid. What if those non movable plates would be one with those rings so that you're be sure that they're not moving?
Thanks for sharing.
Hi, and thank you

As far as the non moving plates and rings goes they are held down by the lid that has sliding springs on a guide that apply around 50 PSI on the discs and rings and the moving discs are also compressed at the same load so they all stay where they should and nothing bad will happen

I have not shown that part of the heater yet
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  #4  
Old 10-31-2012, 10:32 PM
slapstick slapstick is offline
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When I upgrade the new bearing to stop the noise I will take a fast video of it.
I am going to install Swiss High Temp Bearing with a speed rating of 16,000 RPM
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  #5  
Old 10-31-2012, 10:34 PM
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Aaron Aaron is offline
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Dichronite

If you have Dichronite applied to the bearing, you'll have as close to a friction free bearing as you can get.
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  #6  
Old 10-31-2012, 11:01 PM
velacreations velacreations is offline
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How does that compare in terms of other ways of heating your home using electricity (electric furnace, heat pump, etc)?

I am just wondering what the efficiency is, here. I can heat my home using $0, burning wood I pick up behind my home, but is it efficient?
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:21 PM
kenny_PPM kenny_PPM is offline
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Message

Hi slapstick, looks good.

I sent you a private message.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:07 PM
wrtner wrtner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velacreations View Post
How does that compare in terms of other ways of heating your home using electricity (electric furnace, heat pump, etc)?

I am just wondering what the efficiency is, here. I can heat my home using $0, burning wood I pick up behind my home, but is it efficient?
Yes. What would be good to know is how much electrical power
is going in and how long it takes to heat a known quantity of water
from an initial temperature to the final temperature.

Unless you are using peltier chips to convert heat into electricity
or are generating enough steam to drive a smal turbine, it is hard
to know how you are going to get electrical power for lighting,
washing machines etc.
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  #9  
Old 11-02-2012, 02:12 PM
wyndbag wyndbag is offline
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Would it be possible to produce these friction heating effects with a very small desktop scale model or is a there a limit on how much this could be scaled down? I find the possibility of cavitation generated excess heat fascinating.
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:02 PM
velacreations velacreations is offline
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I think the best way to measure it would be to put the thing in a tub of water of known volume and temperature. Run it for one hour (or any set amount of time), and measure the kWh consumption. Then, measure the temperature of the water.

BTU = the amount of energy to raise one pound of water one degree F.

There are 3.3 BTUs per Watt.

So, as you see, it could be fairly easy to see what sort of heat it was producing based on what sort of energy it was consuming.

You would want to run this experiment several times, and then average the values obtained.
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:41 PM
wrtner wrtner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyndbag View Post
Would it be possible to produce these friction heating effects with a very small desktop scale model or is a there a limit on how much this could be scaled down? I find the possibility of cavitation generated excess heat fascinating.
You should check out the work of Peter Daysh Davey.

Also, John Worrell Keely was deeply involved with cavitation but not
specifically for heating.
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:05 PM
slapstick slapstick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyndbag View Post
Would it be possible to produce these friction heating effects with a very small desktop scale model or is a there a limit on how much this could be scaled down? I find the possibility of cavitation generated excess heat fascinating.
Yes it is and I have some of them made up running off of a 12v motor.
There is no cavitation in this system.
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  #13  
Old 11-02-2012, 05:07 PM
slapstick slapstick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velacreations View Post
I think the best way to measure it would be to put the thing in a tub of water of known volume and temperature. Run it for one hour (or any set amount of time), and measure the kWh consumption. Then, measure the temperature of the water.

BTU = the amount of energy to raise one pound of water one degree F.

There are 3.3 BTUs per Watt.

So, as you see, it could be fairly easy to see what sort of heat it was producing based on what sort of energy it was consuming.

You would want to run this experiment several times, and then average the values obtained.
Yea I will set something up and test it.
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:09 AM
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rosehillworks rosehillworks is offline
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I think the formula actually is.

1KW-H (kilowatt-hour) = 1000 Watt-Hours =3413 BTU
Then 1 watt-Hr = 3413 BTU divided by 1000 = 3.413 BTU
So... bottom line is 1 watt-hour is equal to 3.413 BTU

Hope this helps.
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  #15  
Old 11-05-2012, 06:37 PM
slapstick slapstick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
If you have Dichronite applied to the bearing, you'll have as close to a friction free bearing as you can get.
Thank you for the tip m8.
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  #16  
Old 11-05-2012, 06:39 PM
slapstick slapstick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosehillworks View Post
I think the formula actually is.

1KW-H (kilowatt-hour) = 1000 Watt-Hours =3413 BTU
Then 1 watt-Hr = 3413 BTU divided by 1000 = 3.413 BTU
So... bottom line is 1 watt-hour is equal to 3.413 BTU

Hope this helps.
This helps me a lot, thank you
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  #17  
Old 11-07-2012, 08:33 AM
Blargus Blargus is offline
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That's really awesome, thanks for sharing!
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  #18  
Old 11-07-2012, 04:25 PM
lota lota is offline
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Rpm

Hello,
how much rpm your heater has and where for the pipe is in the middle

thank`s
Greeting
Lota
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Last edited by lota; 11-07-2012 at 07:21 PM.
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  #19  
Old 11-12-2012, 10:45 PM
slapstick slapstick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lota View Post
Hello,
how much rpm your heater has and where for the pipe is in the middle

thank`s
Greeting
Lota
The RPMs on the drive shaft is around 850 RPMs. The faster the RPMs the higher the temp but the more load on the motor. The trick is to find the balance. There are trade off for everything but its really just finding the right
combos for what you need.
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:28 AM
lota lota is offline
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Hello,
I have to 12 disks 3*200mm and 12 disks 3*235mm. With 1.5 mm of distance. But it runs very hard. I need 1 kW for the imput.
What you say to this patent.
Patent US4685443 - Hydraulic friction heat generator - Google Patents

Lota
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  #21  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:09 PM
slapstick slapstick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lota View Post
Hello,
I have to 12 disks 3*200mm and 12 disks 3*235mm. With 1.5 mm of distance. But it runs very hard. I need 1 kW for the imput.
What you say to this patent.
Patent US4685443 - Hydraulic friction heat generator - Google Patents

Lota
Hi Lota

Something I have learned after playing with this for about 1 year now is that "LESS is MORE". If I was you I would try a less viscus oil and try running less discs and you may also want to try a slower RPM. Hope this helps.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:46 AM
Vincevl Vincevl is offline
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Very interesting!

Hey Slapstick,

Very interesting device. I'm looking forward to seeing more data. Immersing it in water sounds like a good test. What temperature does the vessel body reach? In how long? Does applying more speed give you more heat or do you reach a thermal limit?

Keep up the great work!
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  #23  
Old 11-14-2012, 05:23 AM
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rosehillworks rosehillworks is offline
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slapstick
I am going to replicate your heater and use it in my house are the specifications the same as you first had them? if they are not can you please
let us know what they are, and would you mind posting where you think the best place to get the parts made is. I think you did that in the other thread but it would be nice to have it here in this one.
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  #24  
Old 11-14-2012, 06:11 AM
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rosehillworks rosehillworks is offline
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slapstick

Here are some specs from the heater I built.

The Top, bottom plates are made out of 304 SS .500 thick or 1/2inch

Body: Is a 8" tube heat sized to make it round the trimmed to 10"

Shims: also made from 304 SS @ .1875 thick or 3/16inch

The Drive discs and the stationary discs are made from mild steal @ .0625 or 1/16inch
I had them laser cut from Brill metal works out of Medford Or. ( they did the work and supplied the metal cheaper then I could buy the metal so it was kinda of a no brainner to have the do that work for me
the drive shaft it 5/8 bar stock from Ace hardware

Oil: 100% organic soy been oil from Wal-Mart
the heater take about 1 US gal. to fill up
I am running 24 discs total so that is 12 drive disc and 12 stationary discs stacked up in between the drive shims and the stationary shims.
The discs spacing is .0625 or 1/16inch between the drivers and stationary

Stationary Disc: OD @ 7.75inch with a 1.5 hole is the center.

Drive Disc: 7.00 inch with a 5/8 hole in the center for the drive shaft to slide through with a keyway slot cut out to hold the discs.

Then I used a high temp 700F caulking to seal it all up.




Have you changed it since you made this post ?
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:06 AM
slapstick slapstick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincevl View Post
Hey Slapstick,

Very interesting device. I'm looking forward to seeing more data. Immersing it in water sounds like a good test. What temperature does the vessel body reach? In how long? Does applying more speed give you more heat or do you reach a thermal limit?

Keep up the great work!
Hi Vincevl
Here are some numbers I have gotten so far. The temp will rise 3F every 1 min until around 300F then I have to change the rotor speed to get more heat. I have had the core to 400F witch is just below the flashing point of the oil. As far as a thermal limit goes, well I guess it depends on how much power you want to use and the oils you are using. I am sure if I wanted to run a larger motor and higher voltage, then you would be making more heat faster for lets say an on demand system. The system I am running in my house is more passive witch uses less power. It's really all about scaling it up or down to fit your needs.

The way this core works is the more heat it makes the cheaper it is to run, so there is a sweat spot.
I am using this heater to heat my full house and it is working better then I was hoping for.
I had this apart for some up-grades, and my house was 60F for 2 days on the inside. Needles to say my wife and kids were complaining about how cold it was inside. As soon as I got it back together, I turned up the thermostat to 85F and in about 4 hours or so my wife was asking me to turn it off. By the way 4 hours of run time cost me around .30 cents give or take.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:19 AM
slapstick slapstick is offline
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Originally Posted by rosehillworks View Post
slapstick
I am going to replicate your heater and use it in my house are the specifications the same as you first had them? if they are not can you please
let us know what they are, and would you mind posting where you think the best place to get the parts made is. I think you did that in the other thread but it would be nice to have it here in this one.
I would like to say that it is nice to see people building this heater.

As far as the parts go I had the discs laser cut out from a local company. I machined the rest of the parts from raw goods. My prototype that you have seen on my youtube channel is made from mostly 304 SS. My new heater cores that I am making are made out of Aluminum for better heat transfer.
You can Chose to do this your self if you have the tools or have a machine shop do it for you or you can have me do it, how ever you chose.

Good luck on your build, if you need any help just send me a message and ill try to help as much as I can.

Thank you
Gabriel
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:23 AM
slapstick slapstick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosehillworks View Post
slapstick

Here are some specs from the heater I built.

The Top, bottom plates are made out of 304 SS .500 thick or 1/2inch

Body: Is a 8" tube heat sized to make it round the trimmed to 10"

Shims: also made from 304 SS @ .1875 thick or 3/16inch

The Drive discs and the stationary discs are made from mild steal @ .0625 or 1/16inch
I had them laser cut from Brill metal works out of Medford Or. ( they did the work and supplied the metal cheaper then I could buy the metal so it was kinda of a no brainner to have the do that work for me
the drive shaft it 5/8 bar stock from Ace hardware

Oil: 100% organic soy been oil from Wal-Mart
the heater take about 1 US gal. to fill up
I am running 24 discs total so that is 12 drive disc and 12 stationary discs stacked up in between the drive shims and the stationary shims.
The discs spacing is .0625 or 1/16inch between the drivers and stationary

Stationary Disc: OD @ 7.75inch with a 1.5 hole is the center.

Drive Disc: 7.00 inch with a 5/8 hole in the center for the drive shaft to slide through with a keyway slot cut out to hold the discs.

Then I used a high temp 700F caulking to seal it all up.




Have you changed it since you made this post ?
There are some changes but this is a good place to start. It really depends on how you are going to use this style of heater. Feel free to contact me if you want to.
Thank you
Gabriel
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  #28  
Old 11-14-2012, 11:51 AM
lota lota is offline
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Hello,
nicely that still somebody builds on it.
I wish you success.
. My discs are from Alluminium. The engine is adjustable to 20000 rpm 2 kW.

Lota
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:09 PM
slapstick slapstick is offline
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Originally Posted by lota View Post
Hello,
nicely that still somebody builds on it.
I wish you success.
. My discs are from Alluminium. The engine is adjustable to 20000 rpm 2 kW.

Lota
Hi Lota
May I ask what kind of heat you are getting from the heat core you have made?
My new testing heaters are full Aluminum as well. I have one as small as a coke can and runs off of 12v power @ 2 amp.
I would love to hear some data the heat core you have built and how your are testing it. Were ever able to get the power consumption down as low as mine?
If not it may be your power plant you are using. I am sitting next to my heater as I am typing this and the core temp is 250F with 500 CFM's blowing across it and the Watts read at 600. The motor to run with no load takes 500 watts so that means that the core is only using 100 watts of extra power. With the total system power using 600 at the moment. Its 78F inside my house and its 28F outside.
Thank you
Gabriel
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:41 PM
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SkyWatcher SkyWatcher is offline
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Hi folks, Hi slapstick, thanks for sharing your work.
Had to chime in, though not much to share.
Replicated those plans found on net many years back, with the large paint can as the rotor and used aluminum flashing for the outer hull, 1/8" gap or so between outside of paint can and inside of outer hull.
Used treadmill motor with small belt to rotor.
Used high temp auto sealant and high temp JB weld to glue together outer hull seem.
Only problem, was not very focused at the time, unfortunately and used water inside and did not see any heat, though bet a thin oil might have worked.
Though of course the tolerances were nothing like what you have.
Though have seen others that claim to have achieved high heat from things like a soup can inside of each other with small gap.
Makes me want to try and rebuild it with tighter tolerances, you know, elcheapo method that works fairly well.
peace love light
tyson
This is part of the plans used to build device, sure many know of these plans.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
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Last edited by SkyWatcher; 11-14-2012 at 07:56 PM.
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