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  #2431  
Old 07-06-2017, 05:00 PM
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Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
To All:
Well I guess if anyone wants to experiment with this device then the first thing you'll need is a decent circuit to control the current going to the solenoid coils.

A circuit that:
1.Pulses both coils in unison.
2.One that breaks up the dc square-wave into 8 pieces or more.
3. One that reverses itself at the end of each cycle.
4.Be adjustable from 0 to 10 amps.
5.Simple mini-pot adjustments that varies the bias to the 2 power fets that drive the 2 coils.
6.Each adjustment being totally independent of all others.
7.Able to adjust the hi and lo for the 2 coils at whatever amperage level you wish.
8.Able to adjust frequency.
9.And of course, no need for power hungry resistors.

Haven't seen anyone posting a simple circuit that meets all these requirements, so I'll post you my more elaborate circuit.
There's also a scope shot of the pulses going to the 2 mosfets.
Hope this all helps somebody.

Btw: open thumbnail with "paint"
Thanks Elcheapo!

Looks like a nice circuit, however, it is completely unreadable...

I have tried with all software I have to enhance, zoom, contrast, etc,etc...but it is too small...

If you send me a better image I could make it in CAD and post it here for all to see.

It would be a huge step forward to have such a device running the Exciter System!!


Thanks in advance


Ufopolitics
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  #2432  
Old 07-06-2017, 05:25 PM
Elcheapo Elcheapo is offline
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pix size

Quote:
Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
Elcheapo

Can you post bigger picture of schematic ?
Ya that's a little small. Try this one.

I didn't draw out the full schematic as there are 9 sections all the same.
The bi-directional counter that I use, only counts from 0 to 8.
So the schematic only shows 2 of these sections to make it easier to allow for adding the next 7.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg control_circuit.jpg (126.6 KB, 48 views)
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  #2433  
Old 07-06-2017, 08:27 PM
Elcheapo Elcheapo is offline
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results

To all:


UFO:

Hope the bigger image I posted for boguslaw clears things up.

As anyone can see, there are a lot of parts in this circuit. They can all be gotten from e-bay at very low prices.
So for anyone ambitious enough to wire one up you will need to know how it works, lots of fine soldering skills, trouble-shooting skills and lots of patience .
Before going through all that trouble, I think it only fair to give you my results first.
My 2 solenoid coils are each wound with 212 turns of #19awg.
The cores are 1.5in. Dia. 2.5in. long using soft iron welding rods with flux removed.
The pickup coil between the 2 poles is: .75 in. long and wound with 80 turns of #19. Core is also made with same rods cut to .75 in.long.

Typical pulse settings in amps are as follows.

Coils A: 8 7.5 7 6.5 6 5.5 5 4.5 4 (9 pulses)

Coils B: 4 4.5 5 5.5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8

As coils A & B get pulsed at exactly the same time, notice that the total current sum is always 12 amps.

Results:nada, zilch

I've tried nn ss ns: I've tried turning the pickup coil 90 deg. With and without a core.

Still not even 1/2 a volt.

But the one good thing is a strongly changing magnetic field between the 2 poles.
I checked this with MM's paper clip on a straw method. With the solenoids spaced 1.25 in. apart
the clip would wobble through this 1.25 in. distance actually clicking on the metal cores in the process.
Maybe Figueras is hiding a few things, like using a better switching system to create a ROTATING magnetic field instead of just a static one.

I'm not the smartest guy in the world, so maybe I'm missing something.
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  #2434  
Old 07-06-2017, 09:56 PM
citfta citfta is offline
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Well Elcheapo, That is disappointing. I had hopes that with your switching system we might see some evidence the Figuera device was real. But it appears there is more to it than meets the eye or maybe nothing at all.

I am guessing that you have tried it with other current values. I am wondering if the current was high enough to not allow the secondary to actually see any changes. Maybe a lower value like a total of 5 amps for the two primaries. Just a thought.

I still think your circuit is a great design and certainly worth keeping or at least knowing about. Fine job on it. Thanks for sharing.

Respectfully,
Carroll
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  #2435  
Old 07-06-2017, 11:01 PM
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Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
To all:


UFO:

Hope the bigger image I posted for boguslaw clears things up.
Yes, thanks!...However, it would be great if you could define (with dotted lines) a "Unit"...

I mean, I see Unit 1 written next to the transistor 2N2222, you've said there are two units...so I do not see #2...then as it branches down...I see both FET's are combined feeding Gates from both IC's branches...

So, just a unit contour would do.

Thanks much, it indeed is a very useful circuit!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
As anyone can see, there are a lot of parts in this circuit. They can all be gotten from e-bay at very low prices.
So for anyone ambitious enough to wire one up you will need to know how it works, lots of fine soldering skills, trouble-shooting skills and lots of patience .
Before going through all that trouble, I think it only fair to give you my results first.
My 2 solenoid coils are each wound with 212 turns of #19awg.
The cores are 1.5in. Dia. 2.5in. long using soft iron welding rods with flux removed.
The pickup coil between the 2 poles is: .75 in. long and wound with 80 turns of #19. Core is also made with same rods cut to .75 in.long.

Typical pulse settings in amps are as follows.

Coils A: 8- 7.5 - 7- 6.5- 6 - 5.5- 5- 4.5- 4- (9 pulses)

Coils B: 4- 4.5 - 5- 5.5- 6 - 6.5- 7- 7.5- 8-

As coils A & B get pulsed at exactly the same time, notice that the total current sum is always 12 amps.

Results:nada, zilch

I've tried nn ss ns: I've tried turning the pickup coil 90 deg. With and without a core.

Still not even 1/2 a volt.

But the one good thing is a strongly changing magnetic field between the 2 poles.
I checked this with MM's paper clip on a straw method. With the solenoids spaced 1.25 in. apart
the clip would wobble through this 1.25 in. distance actually clicking on the metal cores in the process.
Maybe Figueras is hiding a few things, like using a better switching system to create a ROTATING magnetic field instead of just a static one.

I'm not the smartest guy in the world, so maybe I'm missing something.
Honestly, sorry to read that Elcheapo...

I have tested Figuera's Device with my rotary switch-resistors and a similar set up as you have (related to coils-cores arrangement/spec's)...and I did get voltage and amperage out based on the Fields Fluctuations.

I read amperage settings above...but not voltage...what is the Operating Voltage with those 12 Amps total?

Now, the things that I believe could be a "probable cause" why you are getting zero at output:

1- The Amps fluctuations being only by 0.5 decay-gain between stages, maybe too small which does NOT generate the required Field pressures changes through Space/Time...At operating speed/Frequency this 0.5 would be almost not noticeable...

I would try increasing it to one (1) amp difference.

The fact that a "very thin" paper clip shows a field displacement does not mean it can tell you if there is enough pressure (repulse field formed by the two fluctuations).

Try getting a Neo Cylinder (so you could grab it strongly with your hands by its South) aiming at the center solenoid (secondary) with its North facing towards the Invisible Changing NORTHS (N<>N)...then you would be able to feel its pressure PLUS Displacement.

2- Depending on your Voltage...You may not be building the required strong fields.

In my opinion, there is not that much Amperage required for such small cores and wire gauges...currently I am only using 1 to 2 amps Max...and up to 36 Volts, but then again...it is a different configuration. BUT, based on same principle.


Regards


Ufopolitics
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Last edited by Ufopolitics; 07-06-2017 at 11:19 PM.
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  #2436  
Old 07-07-2017, 04:11 AM
Elcheapo Elcheapo is offline
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opinions

TO

UFO:

one unit consists of 6 components.

1 2n222 transistor
3 pc817 opto-couplers
2 500 ohm mini-pots

I have only 2 units drawn out to show how all the rest are connected to the mosfet gates.
It's only the transistors that have different connections to the 9 different
points of ic cd4028.
`The total 12 amps uses only 12 volts.

Ok on getting some output on your switching resistor device.
You have to consider the accuracy of all those resistors. You can't get the
same accuracy as you can by just adjusting a small pot.
I can get some output by just mis-adjusting the pots.

But I think that's because total amperage will then vary up & down and
and it's working as a xformer.

For anyone who wants my honest opinion on this, here it is.
I think the fact that I'm getting zero output means the circuit is working the way it should.

Why?
Because the circuit is designed to have zero change in total amperage to the coils, meaning
zero change in output voltage as well.
You can't get an induced voltage when nothing changes.
But because of figueras unique TWO coil configuration, the 2 solenoids still make ample flux.
The problem we are now faced with is 'How do we make use of all this flux?'
It's quite obvious that just placing a single coil within a changing magnetic field does nothing
when there's no change in amperage or voltage.
Figueras left much out of the picture, so let's see if we can remedy the situation.

Just my opinion and nothing more.


Regards

Elcheapo
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  #2437  
Old 07-07-2017, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
TO

UFO:

one unit consists of 6 components.

1 2n222 transistor
3 pc817 opto-couplers
2 500 ohm mini-pots

I have only 2 units drawn out to show how all the rest are connected to the mosfet gates.
It's only the transistors that have different connections to the 9 different
points of ic cd4028.
Thanks Elcheapo,

That makes it clear the Unit config.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
`The total 12 amps uses only 12 volts.
IMHO, I believe 12 Volts is too small pressure to fully drive such amp value. And what happens here is you get a very strong field(s), but incapable to move/displace around iron cores with enough spatial pressure(s).

I have written before about this scenario...if your resistance at coils is too low, amps got no problem to flow, BUT, Voltage remains also too low, field becomes almost static, because of no voltage pressure movement, due to almost no voltage difference between coils nodes or terminals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
Ok on getting some output on your switching resistor device.
You have to consider the accuracy of all those resistors. You can't get the
same accuracy as you can by just adjusting a small pot.
I can get some output by just mis-adjusting the pots.

But I think that's because total amperage will then vary up & down and
and it's working as a xformer.
If we alter resistance during operation, NOT only amps will fluctuate, but also voltage, tension...we could resume that as wattage (AmpsXVolts) at coil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
For anyone who wants my honest opinion on this, here it is.
I think the fact that I'm getting zero output means the circuit is working the way it should.

Why?
Because the circuit is designed to have zero change in total amperage to the coils, meaning
zero change in output voltage as well.
You can't get an induced voltage when nothing changes.
No matter what you do...If Magnetic Fields Changes...there would be induction EMF at Output.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
But because of figueras unique TWO coil configuration, the 2 solenoids still make ample flux.
The problem we are now faced with is 'How do we make use of all this flux?'
It's quite obvious that just placing a single coil within a changing magnetic field does nothing
when there's no change in amperage or voltage.
Figueras left much out of the picture, so let's see if we can remedy the situation.

Just my opinion and nothing more.


Regards

Elcheapo
Right now I have BOTH Coils for the Exciter built into one core, and they are Bifilar Wound (meaning no two separate facing coils/cores)...I am driving just ONE Field with just one square pulse to ONE of the Coil Circuits, while the second Field comes from a looped LC Tank with AC Caps...this mirrors the main exciting Field PLUS a Reversed Polarity Field...for the "price of one"...

I have also written that it is a must to have transient (spikes) currents from either one of the two Fields...and if I get protecting diodes...no induction -at all- takes place at output coils.

Even if you do not collapse field(s) by keeping positive feed at all time...whenever currents RAMPS DOWN ABRUPTLY, there would be a coil-field response-reaction of some sort of transient reversed spike.

Actually, these transient currents are the ones who actually reduce when output is loaded, on my set up, while almost no change at input from source, and that goes to V & A (Watts)

An interesting thing I have noticed on this tests...is that while no load, the exciting fields keep vibrating strongly according to frequency, and even with just ONE PULSE, I get sparks here...and as soon as I add a load...or short output circuit with amp meter to measure full amps at max surge...the whole thing stops vibrating and becomes almost a SOLID Magnetized assembly...no more vibrations....and Sparks reduce to almost zero.

Figuera did not have any Solid State electronics at his time...but a commutated brush between resistors...and that MUST HAVE DONE HIGH SPARKING...in between transitions...Sparks mean Spikes, reversed flows, and transient currents...it is simple...no sparks, no transients...no output.

Again, and as you wrote...This is my opinion and nothing more...and so I could be wrong...


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #2438  
Old 07-07-2017, 05:20 PM
Elcheapo Elcheapo is offline
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aether

Quote:
Originally Posted by citfta View Post
Well Elcheapo, That is disappointing. I had hopes that with your switching system we might see some evidence the Figuera device was real. But it appears there is more to it than meets the eye or maybe nothing at all.

I am guessing that you have tried it with other current values. I am wondering if the current was high enough to not allow the secondary to actually see any changes. Maybe a lower value like a total of 5 amps for the two primaries. Just a thought.

I still think your circuit is a great design and certainly worth keeping or at least knowing about. Fine job on it. Thanks for sharing.

Respectfully,
Carroll
Sorry to disappoint you carroll , but just look at it from the positive side.
With this circuit I have proven to myself (no one else) that I can get a strongly changing magnetic field without any lenz effect.
We all have to change our way of thinking as sometimes conventional
electronics just don't fit in with these new concepts.
We should be asking ourselves "where is this free energy coming from?"
Well in my humble opinion ALL electricity comes from the aether.
So now we just have to figure out a way for this magnetic field to induce
itself into the coil which will automatically access the aether like all electric generators do.
I am also working on another project called "vortexing the aether" where
they use 4 coils set up in a circle and pulse them individually clockwise
to get a rotating magnetic field.
Maybe this is all we need for this Figueras device.

Regards

Elcheapo
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  #2439  
Old 07-08-2017, 01:36 AM
Elcheapo Elcheapo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Thanks Elcheapo,

That makes it clear the Unit config.




IMHO, I believe 12 Volts is too small pressure to fully drive such amp value. And what happens here is you get a very strong field(s), but incapable to move/displace around iron cores with enough spatial pressure(s).

I have written before about this scenario...if your resistance at coils is too low, amps got no problem to flow, BUT, Voltage remains also too low, field becomes almost static, because of no voltage pressure movement, due to almost no voltage difference between coils nodes or terminals.



If we alter resistance during operation, NOT only amps will fluctuate, but also voltage, tension...we could resume that as wattage (AmpsXVolts) at coil.



No matter what you do...If Magnetic Fields Changes...there would be induction EMF at Output.




Right now I have BOTH Coils for the Exciter built into one core, and they are Bifilar Wound (meaning no two separate facing coils/cores)...I am driving just ONE Field with just one square pulse to ONE of the Coil Circuits, while the second Field comes from a looped LC Tank with AC Caps...this mirrors the main exciting Field PLUS a Reversed Polarity Field...for the "price of one"...

I have also written that it is a must to have transient (spikes) currents from either one of the two Fields...and if I get protecting diodes...no induction -at all- takes place at output coils.

Even if you do not collapse field(s) by keeping positive feed at all time...whenever currents RAMPS DOWN ABRUPTLY, there would be a coil-field response-reaction of some sort of transient reversed spike.

Actually, these transient currents are the ones who actually reduce when output is loaded, on my set up, while almost no change at input from source, and that goes to V & A (Watts)

An interesting thing I have noticed on this tests...is that while no load, the exciting fields keep vibrating strongly according to frequency, and even with just ONE PULSE, I get sparks here...and as soon as I add a load...or short output circuit with amp meter to measure full amps at max surge...the whole thing stops vibrating and becomes almost a SOLID Magnetized assembly...no more vibrations....and Sparks reduce to almost zero.

Figuera did not have any Solid State electronics at his time...but a commutated brush between resistors...and that MUST HAVE DONE HIGH SPARKING...in between transitions...Sparks mean Spikes, reversed flows, and transient currents...it is simple...no sparks, no transients...no output.

Again, and as you wrote...This is my opinion and nothing more...and so I could be wrong...


Regards


Ufopolitics
You say my 12 volt is too small. So if I jack it up to your 36volt level
total power consumption would go up also, from 144 watts to 432 watts.
What we're trying to do here is to increase our output power and not increase the input power.
So maybe what you mean is I should jack up my voltage to 36volts and cut my maximum amperage down to 4 amps to give me the same input power. So goodbye to a strongly changing magnetic field.
You are saying the voltage is too low to be able to move the magnetic field around. Well wherever did you read that a higher voltage will move a magnetic field. I'd like to see that article.

Your concept of voltage is out of kilter. Voltage is a pressure, as you say
but it only serves to get amperage up to your required level, no more.
There are circuits of course that require HV operation, but this is not one of them.
A strong magnetic field is totally dependent on higher amperage only. The voltage is there only to get that higher amperage and no more.

And yes you're right when saying that varying the resistance on your setup
will vary the voltage as well as the amps.
You say "If magnetic fields change there would be induction emf at output."

No, you're wrong on that as I've already tried it on my circuit.
I have a 20 amp meter in series with the main 12 volt line and when set up for 12 amps there is no variation whatsoever on the meter. A volt-meter
shows no variation as well. Tried 60hz and 400hz: same thing.
And that is why my output coil shows zero volts.

A couple of questions:
Do you believe that the total amperage between the 2 coils should always
remain the same?
Where do YOU think the extra energy is coming from.

Regards
Elcheapo
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  #2440  
Old 07-08-2017, 05:41 PM
Elcheapo Elcheapo is offline
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Smile good find

To all:

Well I think maybe I've found a solution to my problem.
While going through some old postings, I found this #818 one by hanon saying:

"Basically this user is proposing to use also like poles facing each other (in repulsion) in the motionless 1902 patent. As the magnetic field crash in the central zone between electromagnets he suggests to place TWO induced coils. One at each side in order to capture all the magnetic lines which go to one and to the other side.

If you just use one induced coil the resulting induction will be NULL because one part of the coil is induced in the opposed direction to the other part."

That sounds exactly like my situation. Thanks to hanon as a very good find.
Unfortunately, I blew a couple of my mosfets by wrongly setting up the circuit, so I have to wait while I order some more to continue on and try using Two induced coils.

At my age of 84 my only real concern for energy is to be able to walk the 2 blocks to the post office and back.

But for all you young fellows and lurkers out there who want free energy, get busy and build a decent control circuit to try out the many dozens of ways to experiment with this thing.

Good luck to all.

Elcheapo
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  #2441  
Old 07-08-2017, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
You say my 12 volt is too small. So if I jack it up to your 36volt level
total power consumption would go up also, from 144 watts to 432 watts.
What we're trying to do here is to increase our output power and not increase the input power.
So maybe what you mean is I should jack up my voltage to 36volts and cut my maximum amperage down to 4 amps to give me the same input power. So goodbye to a strongly changing magnetic field.
You are saying the voltage is too low to be able to move the magnetic field around. Well wherever did you read that a higher voltage will move a magnetic field. I'd like to see that article.
Hello Elcheapo,

Cheer up friend, life is beautiful...

What I was trying to say is to BALANCE Volts versus Amperage, exactly as you have said on the above bold out part.

You are wrong as not having a strong field anymore if you cut amperage and increase voltage, let me example that:

In a 4400 Watts small Home Generator, the required Exciting Field must be around the 400 Watts...

HOWEVER, the way Wattage is disbursed is: 175V and 2-2.5 Amps.

And above fact is understandable because this exciting DC field runs ON AT ALL TIME during Operation, so Coil is built with fine wire (like 26-28 awg) and a whole of Amp-Turns, where resistance is around 65 ohms.

On Figuera concept, since we are switching the field to Hi-Lo, then we can afford a lower Voltage from the 175V and a bit higher amperage...just balancing out in order not to have too much impedance so it does not affect fast pulsing.

For example, I have consistently used 386 feet of 16 awg wrapped into many different coil geometries as the exciter part and that allows me to pulse-supply up to 50V and like from 1 to 4 amps max. And this is for testing purposes only, so, do not mean it would be the final device.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
Your concept of voltage is out of kilter. Voltage is a pressure, as you say
but it only serves to get amperage up to your required level, no more.
There are circuits of course that require HV operation, but this is not one of them.
A strong magnetic field is totally dependent on higher amperage only. The voltage is there only to get that higher amperage and no more.
Sorry about that...but I disagree above...

Voltage and Amperage must be BALANCED OUT for every different application...

In our Figuera case, we need a very well balanced Power (Watts) and that directly relates to the type of coil configuration(understand basically wire gauge plus number of Amp-Turns) we are using.

Let me example that...

You have one gallon of water (One Amp) to run at a 386 feet pipe line and in order to get from one end to the other...you apply One PSI of pressure...what happens?...nothing...water will move but will never reach the end...much less if we wrap that line into a coil serpentine shape.

I applied your "ratio" of 1:1 based on 12 Amps and 12 Volts...But based on 1 unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
And yes you're right when saying that varying the resistance on your setup
will vary the voltage as well as the amps.
Exactly, and if you remember on Buforn He mentioned 100V and 1 amp ratio...And I am pretty sure when Figuera was talking about "currents" he was referring to BOTH...Volts and Amps as One Flow together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
You say "If magnetic fields change there would be induction emf at output."

No, you're wrong on that as I've already tried it on my circuit.
I am pretty sure there should be some induction there...very small because of the way you are doing it...but there MUST BE some flow...millivolts-milliamps...but some.

And that "change" is not the only dependent aspect to generate EMF Induction...but also based on the "Rate of that Change" (interpret it as repetitions of that change)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
I have a 20 amp meter in series with the main 12 volt line and when set up for 12 amps there is no variation whatsoever on the meter. A volt-meter
shows no variation as well. Tried 60hz and 400hz: same thing.
And that is why my output coil shows zero volts.
Try to read it by "portions" (nodes) of the circuit and not just from the main source, example:

Try putting an amp and a volt meters on each one of the Exciter Coils, then it should read the ALTERNATING changes (In Voltage and Amperage) taking place there when you start switching...or the two Scope Probes while running. If there are no changes...then that is why you are not getting any induction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
A couple of questions:
Do you believe that the total amperage between the 2 coils should always remain the same?
Again...why look at the TOTAL Amps or Voltage from PSU, when the ACTUAL CHANGE-FLUCTUATION of POWER is taking place between the two Exciting Coils?

You have a very small generating coil CORE of 0.75 In (3/4")...and if you build a too high DOUBLE VOLUME FIELDS with your LONGER Exciter Cores...this fluctuation will never be "seen" by the small length core...So I will try either a longer core and spread wire along...or simply and much easier...lower your power down until the Field becomes smaller in volume and it can travel from one extreme to the other of your 3/4 inch core.

Remember, you do not want the retractions and expansions of the two fields to get into their own exciter coils-cores...otherwise you will be sending this self induction back to your source.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
Where do YOU think the extra energy is coming from.

Regards
Elcheapo
Wow...good question...But basing it on who we are here...we are builders, experimenters here and not tinkerers..or theorizers...

I know what the answer you would like is..."The Aether"...but that's too "general speaking"...

Extra Energy is coming from many places...we just have to make the right set up to process it.

The day that we all get to see that a Magnetic Field contains A SINGLE Flow Spin, which will NOT progress unless we MOVE it through SPACE/TIME coordinates...and that such Spin moved through S/T will IMPINGE an Electron Flow on any Conductor of wire, specially shaped ACCORDING to that Field VOLUMETRICAL DISPLACEMENT...then we will have Extra Energy in so many forms and shapes...that the whole picture will change rapidly.

First we must set this FIELD SPATIAL VOLUMETRICAL DISPLACEMENT CORRECTLY (like I told you above...to travel through your generating CORE properly)...And then....then it is just a matter to "REPEAT THE PROCESS" through TIME...Or as Faraday Law: INCREASING that RATE of CHANGE.

Resuming...it is GREAT to have a STEADY Output from Source...and just by swinging-playing with the fluctuations between two facing coils-cores...we get extra energy above what we are putting in, by increasing that rate of change.


Hope I have answered all your questions satisfactorily...as also I wanna read that you are having power out of your generating coils





Ufopolitics
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Old 07-09-2017, 01:10 AM
Elcheapo Elcheapo is offline
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Hi UFO,

Quote:
You are wrong as not having a strong field anymore if you cut amperage and increase voltage, let me example that
Yes, that was my mistake.
We need to use the ampere-turns formula to compare field strength of
different coils. And notice that in every reference to this formula 'volts" is never mentioned. It's only applied in ohms law to get the right amount of current and then it's job is done.

But you still think that coils using a higher voltage will move that spatial
field better.
The space between the coils is strictly magnetic and not movable by any voltage. But don't worry UFO, I'll be working on some method to prove it for you.

Quote:
Voltage and Amperage must be BALANCED OUT for every different application...
The only thing we need to balance out Voltage and Amperage is ohms law.

Quote:
I am pretty sure there should be some induction there...very small because of the way you are doing it...but there MUST BE some flow...millivolts-milliamps...but some.
If I had gotten even 1/2 a volt, I would be thinking, well maybe I need a stronger magnetic field but no, zero volts got me to realize that because there was no change in current or emf then that was the reason and something else was necessary.
Had this same problem last September sometime when using larger 5" long coils wound with #14: Secondary coil I think was 2" long. Got zero.
I mentioned it to MM and he said "well you won't get anything out if you have no change in current or voltage".
Ya, we've all become brain-washed over the years and have a hard time to
change our way of thinking.
In the mean time if you want to use your resistor switching system, be sure to get those nichrome resistors set up so there is no change in total amps and emf. Then when I change mine using TWO pickup coils which I think will work then you can do the same.
Very few real experimenters on this thread except for you, so always glad to hear from you, even if we don't agree.

Cheers
Elcheapo
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Old 07-12-2017, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
Hi UFO,

But you still think that coils using a higher voltage will move that spatial
field better.
The space between the coils is strictly magnetic and not movable by any voltage. But don't worry UFO, I'll be working on some method to prove it for you.
Hello Elcheapo,

I never said that Higher Voltage ALONE will move Field better.

Applying it to your case (your set up) friend, yes, you get a very strong field by using 12 amps...but then, using 12 volts to displace that HEAVY AMPS FIELD around, from one end of coil to the other Terminal, or from side to side of core...12V is NOT ENOUGH Voltage.
Voltage is in charge to pressurize, (push-pull) that amp volume flow across conductor LENGTH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
The only thing we need to balance out Voltage and Amperage is ohms law.
I already had this discussion with Bistander before...Amps-Turns in the equation should relate to Voltage and NOT amps in the Ohms-Magnetic Equation he brought in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
If I had gotten even 1/2 a volt, I would be thinking, well maybe I need a stronger magnetic field but no, zero volts got me to realize that because there was no change in current or emf then that was the reason and something else was necessary.
Had this same problem last September sometime when using larger 5" long coils wound with #14: Secondary coil I think was 2" long. Got zero.
I mentioned it to MM and he said "well you won't get anything out if you have no change in current or voltage".
Ya, we've all become brain-washed over the years and have a hard time to
change our way of thinking.
The Variation of Volts-Amps ONLY needs to take place at each of the exciting coils...Source should be the same at all time. Maybe small variations in milli units.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
In the mean time if you want to use your resistor switching system, be sure to get those nichrome resistors set up so there is no change in total amps and emf. Then when I change mine using TWO pickup coils which I think will work then you can do the same.
I am no longer using resistors at all...that was just a Phase of Experiments, done deal by now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcheapo View Post
Very few real experimenters on this thread except for you, so always glad to hear from you, even if we don't agree.

Cheers
Elcheapo
True and agree, same here Elcheapo, hopefully many more will join in once we put up a working device up front...no matter how many things have been changed around it...

Couple of suggestion on your setup:

Could you either repeat or expand (increase) the ON TIME AT PEAK LIMITS for each signal? (meaning Top and Bottom)...this will give EXPANDING Field a bit more time to DEVELOP while the Low one stays also more time on Minimal RETRACTION stage.

Also, try lowering your Amps and increasing Voltage...say around 30V and like 4-6 amps total from source. Play with different combination ratios...


Regards


Ufopolitics
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Old 07-12-2017, 02:17 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Coil current

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
...
I already had this discussion with Bistander before...Amps-Turns in the equation should relate to Voltage and NOT amps in the Ohms-Magnetic Equation he brought in.
...
The magnetic circuit sees current (in the mmf, Amp Turns), not voltage. The electric circuit needs the voltage to satisfy Ohm's Law considering the coil resistance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
...
...
Also, try lowering your Amps and increasing Voltage...say around 30V and like 4-6 amps total from source. Play with different combination ratios...
He would have to rewind the coil to alter the current and voltage as you request, or perhaps change the temperature (but his wire insulation would fail before resistance got high enough to take 30V/5A).

Regards,

bi
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Old 07-12-2017, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
The magnetic circuit sees current (in the mmf, Amp Turns), not voltage. The electric circuit needs the voltage to satisfy Ohm's Law considering the coil resistance.



He would have to rewind the coil to alter the current and voltage as you request, or perhaps change the temperature (but his wire insulation would fail before resistance got high enough to take 30V/5A).

Regards,

bi
Hello bi,

What you said is all very true although there is one other way to raise the voltage and lower the current without rewinding the coil. That is to raise the frequency to a few kilohertz. Then the inductive reactance would lower the current. I think this is what MM kept claiming the part G would do but of course the part G as built by some on this forum had much too small of inductive reactance at the frequency they were wanting to use.

The only real problem with raising the frequency is the inductive heating losses that will occur in the core unless the core is made of the proper materials.

So for all practical purposes the coils would need to be rewound to allow for higher voltage and lower current. Just thought I would throw that other idea in there for those that might want to see how inductive reactance works since some on this thread seem to be pretty confused about all that.

Later,
Carroll
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Old 07-12-2017, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
The magnetic circuit sees current (in the mmf, Amp Turns), not voltage. The electric circuit needs the voltage to satisfy Ohm's Law considering the coil resistance.
Hello Bistander,

Honestly Bistander, at this stage, I really do not care what they say...

I know Voltage has been taken out -completely- from the Magnetic Equation of a Coil...However, no electromagnetic device will work with an UNBALANCED Voltage-Amperage either too low voltage and Higher amperage or the opposite...high Voltage with too low amps.

And yes, I know -as I understand as well- it is stated in Ohms Law...what I really do not understand is why voltage has been taken completely off magnetism.

Voltage and Amperage go by the hand (in a relation as Ohm's Law) anywhere we need a specific flow of ELECTRICITY.

Example: Get a BRUSHED Motor which requires 24V and 15 Amps MAX, then supply only 2 Volts with same amps or less (+/-15A)...Let's see if it barely makes an attempt to move.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
He would have to rewind the coil to alter the current and voltage as you request, or perhaps change the temperature (but his wire insulation would fail before resistance got high enough to take 30V/5A).

Regards,

bi
That depends upon his resistance at the coils, for example, my exciters are based on 386 ft of 16 gauge, and no matter what shape (Amps-Turns), it will ALWAYS HAVE around 2.0 Ohms Resistance. Which means I could make ANY GEOMETRY I like...and you must realize that Geometry dictates number of Turns. Resuming, I can add easily 50 Volts and up to four Amps to that Coil being pulsed by my mechanical rotary switch...AND it will BARELY get WARM.

At the same token...IF My Geometry is TOO LONG and TOO SMALL in COIL THICKNESS...even with FULL POWER Magnetic Field would be very weak, why? because of area of Field distribution ALONG A LONGER IRON CORE REQUIRED...and guess what?...Both, working (Shorter Core) and not working (Longer Core) same core thickness Geometries would have EXACTLY SAME number of turns......Please explain that one

Any Coil with too low resistance (say below One Amp) will NEVER allow Voltage to rise on ANY given PSU, Linear or Switched...HOWEVER, amps could go Sky High...But it would do ABSOLUTELY NADA...NO INDUCTION.

So, I highly recommend for those experimenting with Figuera...to use around 2.0 Ohms resistance on their exciters and basically if providing power with a Regulated Linear or Switched PSU...Only then you would see results.


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #2447  
Old 07-12-2017, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citfta View Post
Hello bi,

What you said is all very true although there is one other way to raise the voltage and lower the current without rewinding the coil. That is to raise the frequency to a few kilohertz. Then the inductive reactance would lower the current. I think this is what MM kept claiming the part G would do but of course the part G as built by some on this forum had much too small of inductive reactance at the frequency they were wanting to use.

The only real problem with raising the frequency is the inductive heating losses that will occur in the core unless the core is made of the proper materials.

So for all practical purposes the coils would need to be rewound to allow for higher voltage and lower current. Just thought I would throw that other idea in there for those that might want to see how inductive reactance works since some on this thread seem to be pretty confused about all that.

Later,
Carroll

Hello Carroll,

Definitively yes, whenever we increase speed (frequency) of the switching, amps will lower down...and it really do not need to go into the kilohertz to see that...for example, when I set current limit to 2.0 amps and start at low speed it would oscillate around those 2.0 amps...However, when I increase speed I have to keep rising amps to reach the 1.5 levels, because it tends to go below one amp.

The point here is that I need to reach the operating speed (@60Hz) to then set the current limiting on PSU that I want to work with.

As, when I apply a load at output the PSU Voltage will definitively come down (Amps will remain the same by C.L.)...not much, but Voltage will, since it is the parameter which is set as Variable on PSU.

Very good point there Citfta!!


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #2448  
Old 07-12-2017, 03:29 PM
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@ Bistander and Citfta

@ Bistander and Citfta,

Now, since I got both of you here...I would like to ask some questions as how do you want me to FILM and SET the Circuit for the measuring of Volts and Amps IN versus Volts and Amps OUT from my device?

For example:

If I have a NO LOAD test, I could read FULL VOLTAGE OUT, plus FULL VOLT/AMPS INPUT (understanding at operating frequency)...BUT as I add a LOAD, Out Voltage Drops as OUT Amp meter will show a measure...As INPUT Voltage will also drop, while I keep IN amps steady by current limiting at PSU.

So, which measurements are the FINAL here?

Say I brake this TESTING into three stages:

NO LOAD FULL OPERATING FREQUENCY

1- Full Volts/Amps Input Readout

2- PLUS ONLY Output Voltage. (no load, no output amps)


LOADED OUTPUT AT FULL OPERATING FREQ.

1- INPUT Volts DROPS PLUS STEADY AMPS by CL

2- OUTPUT Volts DROPS and Amps could be read.


FULL SHORT CIRCUIT AT OUTPUT TERMINALS

By shorting out the generating coils terminals with the AMP METER it should show what I call "MAX SURGE AMPS"...Am I correct here guys?...while Voltage -of course- drops, but NEVER to zero nor negative values...


Thanks in advance


Regards


Ufopolitics

EDIT 1: Is understandable that I would be using a Diode Bridge at Output to convert to DC Volts-Amps, since PSU is delivering DC V and Amps at Input...and yes, forget about Diode losses here...they are considered "as disregarded" related to the output values...
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Old 07-12-2017, 03:41 PM
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Reply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
...
At the same token...IF My Geometry is TOO LONG and TOO SMALL in COIL THICKNESS...even with FULL POWER Magnetic Field would be very weak, why? because of area of Field distribution ALONG A LONGER IRON CORE REQUIRED...and guess what?...Both, working (Shorter Core) and not working (Longer Core) same core thickness Geometries would have EXACTLY SAME number of turns......Please explain that one

...
Hi Ufo,

The explanation lies in the magnetic circuit and relationship of flux to mmf and reluctance. In your example the mmf remains the same but return path reluctance goes up.

And citfta,

Yes. I assumed (without stating so) that frequnecy was constant.

Regards to both of you,

bi
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Old 07-12-2017, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi Ufo,

The explanation lies in the magnetic circuit and relationship of flux to mmf and reluctance. In your example the mmf remains the same but return path reluctance goes up.

bi
YES!!...Bistander...You are BRILLIANT friend!!, no matter what they say about you...

It EXACTLY bolts down to the return path of the coils, and as a matter of fact, my BEST set -on Generating Coils- is based on very short return paths coils, while building up higher layers (coil thickness I call it, but it could be coil height)...similar to PANCAKE COILS but with more than just one turn per layer, say like 10 to 15 turns of 16 awg.

I am also using steel strips (22 gauge) of about same length of those short coils, insulated by tape, rolled as a "clock spring" in between each coil or at "strategic positions" like center and extremes of core...they act as small magnetic field amplifiers between coils...

However, I would like to add (and I believe Elcheapo brought this issue a bit back) about core geometries versus coil geometry...if the coil geometry does not satisfy the core amount of mass for either ways...as either being too small or too big...it will not do the job to build the required field either.

If coil is too small for a big amount of steel...field would be absorbed by iron mass with very little or none Spatial projection outwards...and so, if coil is too big for too small mass of iron...then Field would not have the required strength.


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #2451  
Old 07-12-2017, 04:22 PM
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Test measurements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
@ Bistander and Citfta,

Now, since I got both of you here...I would like to ask some questions as how do you want me to FILM and SET the Circuit for the measuring of Volts and Amps IN versus Volts and Amps OUT from my device?

For example:

If I have a NO LOAD test, I could read FULL VOLTAGE OUT, plus FULL VOLT/AMPS INPUT (understanding at operating frequency)...BUT as I add a LOAD, Out Voltage Drops as OUT Amp meter will show a measure...As INPUT Voltage will also drop, while I keep IN amps steady by current limiting at PSU.

So, which measurements are the FINAL here?

Say I brake this TESTING into three stages:

NO LOAD FULL OPERATING FREQUENCY

1- Full Volts/Amps Input Readout

2- PLUS ONLY Output Voltage. (no load, no output amps)


LOADED OUTPUT AT FULL OPERATING FREQ.

1- INPUT Volts DROPS PLUS STEADY AMPS by CL

2- OUTPUT Volts DROPS and Amps could be read.


FULL SHORT CIRCUIT AT OUTPUT TERMINALS

By shorting out the generating coils terminals with the AMP METER it should show what I call "MAX SURGE AMPS"...Am I correct here guys?...while Voltage -of course- drops, but NEVER to zero nor negative values...


Thanks in advance


Regards


Ufopolitics

EDIT 1: Is understandable that I would be using a Diode Bridge at Output to convert to DC Volts-Amps, since PSU is delivering DC V and Amps at Input.
Hi Ufo,

A valid test in my mind for a device with only electrical inputs and outputs is, for all conditions:

Input Volts,
Input Amperes,
Scope shot of Volts and Amps (so we can tell if phase shift enters into power calculation),

Output Volts,
Output Amperes,
Scope shot of Volts & Amps.

All of the above simultaneously.

No load: should be zero amperes output (=open circuit output terminals).

Loaded conditions: place resistor (used as load) across output terminals. Output current is Amps thru resistor and output Volts is measured across the resistor terminals.

Short circuit: should imply zero output voltage. Placing an ammeter across output terminals will essentially satisfy zero output volts due to negligible ammeter resistance. If a clamp style ammeter is used, short output terminals with a short large gauge copper wire and clamp around it.

As with any test, date, time, temperature, personnel, place and other pertinent information should be noted.

Should be good for starters.

bi

PS. Note the power used by any additional devices contributing to the function of the test subject (like a motor turning a switching commutator).

PPS. Take measurements in a steady-state to eliminate dealing with transients. Simply insure the inputs and outputs remain unchanged for several seconds before and after the readings.
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Old 07-12-2017, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi Ufo,

A valid test in my mind for a device with only electrical inputs and outputs is, for all conditions:

Input Volts,
Input Amperes,
Scope shot of Volts and Amps (so we can tell if phase shift enters into power calculation),

Output Volts,
Output Amperes,
Scope shot of Volts & Amps.

All of the above simultaneously.
Hello Bistander,

I need a bit of info here, please, How can the scope show currents (Amps) in either Input or Output?

I believe have to use a specific resistor of 100 ohms or something like?

Simultaneity of I/O Readings : Now, one problem here...I only have one Scope and it only have two channels...to give all four parameters simultaneously that's impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
No load: should be zero amperes output (=open circuit output terminals).
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Loaded conditions: place resistor (used as load) across output terminals. Output current is Amps thru resistor and output Volts is measured across the resistor terminals.
I have used a small automotive bulb (1157) from the high amps filament (shorter and thicker tungsten) as a resistor, since at the same time it shows brightness gain as I speed up rotary switch...I have also used a Headlamp Bulb which requires also higher amperage to lit up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Short circuit: should imply zero output voltage. Placing an ammeter across output terminals will essentially satisfy zero output volts due to negligible ammeter resistance. If a clamp style ammeter is used, short output terminals with a short large gauge copper wire and clamp around it.
It should imply zero voltage on a complete short of the output terminals right?...that's exactly what I thought...however, guess what?...it don't go to zero at all, as a matter of fact with latest tests it shows around 4.23 - 4.40 Volts DC at FULL SHORT from amp meter.

I have also used my EXTECH Clamp for AC and DC Amps right at one of the coil wires...identical results as the inline meter...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
As with any test, date, time, temperature, personnel, place and other pertinent information should be noted.

Should be good for starters.

bi
Correct

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
PS. Note the power used by any additional devices contributing to the function of the test subject (like a motor turning a switching commutator).
Of course, they would be shown, however, we would be considering only for calculations here the full Input from the PSU feeding the Exciter Coils versus the Full Output from Output Coils correct?

On this testings am using Three PSU's...

#1- The Linear one with analog meters backed up by two digital EXTECH showing Volts-Amps feeds the Exciting Coils via brush-commutator on rotary switch.

#2- The Rotary switch motor is fed by a switching PSU and spends at full speed around 27.0 V and like 0.8 Amps

#3- The brushless cooling fan for the small motor and switch assy (brushes-commutator, etc) uses the third PSU and uses like 11.V and 0.08 amps.

The last two PSU's (#2,#3) are steady at those wattage values during operation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
PPS. Take measurements in a steady-state to eliminate dealing with transients. Simply insure the inputs and outputs remain unchanged for several seconds before and after the readings.
My EXTECH Meters go all the way to the 0.000 decimals, or the mills values...and sorry Bistander but the decimals are never steady during operation for either volts nor amps...However, if we are talking about the main number in front of the point (solid or whole number >1)...yes, I understand what you mean.

As also the following decimal right after the point does not fluctuate much unless when it changes from 1.499 to 1.500


Thanks and regards



Ufopolitics
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  #2453  
Old 07-12-2017, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
I need a bit of info here, please, How can the scope show currents (Amps) in either Input or Output?

I believe have to use a specific resistor of 100 ohms or something like?
Yeah, 2 channels are needed. Use a common ground on the two, say power supply negative. Then the V trace probe goes on power supply positive. You have a current viewing resistor connected to power supply negative and then to the device being tested. Connect the other probe to the shunt on the connection to the test subject.

Current viewing resistor is often called a meter shunt or just "shunt". They are available in low resistance (milli or micro ohms) such that the current range of intetest is measured in millivolts. Your scope can surely handle millivolts. A reasonable shunt for this test might be one rated at 50mV for 10A. So when the scope shows 5mV it is reading 1A. 10mV is 2A, 20mV is 4A and so on.

I fail to see how you get ~4V on a short circuit. Try the shunt across the output. That will keep it essentially to zero (millivolts).

Regards,

bi
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Old 07-12-2017, 05:21 PM
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Ufo,

Don't worry about fluctuations in the thousandths decimal place and even a bit in the hundredths is acceptable.

Got to go.... later.

bi
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Old 07-12-2017, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Yeah, 2 channels are needed. Use a common ground on the two, say power supply negative. Then the V trace probe goes on power supply positive. You have a current viewing resistor connected to power supply negative and then to the device being tested. Connect the other probe to the shunt on the connection to the test subject.
If I understand you correctly, shunt resistor should have one terminal as a common ground by connecting to Scope probes ground and PSU negative, as the other terminal from shunt resistor to one Output terminal?
To then add the second channel Probe trace to the other resistor terminal and also to the other output terminal?

Understood correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Current viewing resistor is often called a meter shunt or just "shunt". They are available in low resistance (milli or micro ohms) such that the current range of intetest is measured in millivolts. Your scope can surely handle millivolts. A reasonable shunt for this test might be one rated at 50mV for 10A. So when the scope shows 5mV it is reading 1A. 10mV is 2A, 20mV is 4A and so on.
I believe I have one...have to look for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
I fail to see how you get ~4V on a short circuit. Try the shunt across the output. That will keep it essentially to zero (millivolts).

Regards,

bi
Bistander, even if I literally joint both output terminals wire to wire...I get the same results.

As the Scope trace on output will not go flat line either...but similar to a square wave above zero.

EDIT 1: Only way I could understand this...is that GENERATING COILS keeps sourcing A VOLTAGE with the Max Surge Amps, no matter if short circuited.

If we do that on a battery...well, besides all the heat and sparks...it will drop to zero...as in any other CONSTANT AND LIMITED SOURCE OF POWER.

Other interesting result is that coils will not even get warm by shorting them out...Iron Core will get warm... though.

Amp meters say this short test could not go above 15 minutes at 10 Amps...guess it will blow their fuse.


Regards



Ufopolitics
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Last edited by Ufopolitics; 07-12-2017 at 06:57 PM.
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  #2456  
Old 07-13-2017, 03:05 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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V & I on scope

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
If I understand you correctly, shunt resistor should have one terminal as a common ground by connecting to Scope probes ground and PSU negative, as the other terminal from shunt resistor to one Output terminal?
To then add the second channel Probe trace to the other resistor terminal and also to the other output terminal?

Understood correct?
Hi Ufo,

Here's a diagram:



So channel A is current (measuring millivolts across the shunt) and channel B is voltage. The source, represented by the circle with sinewave in that diagram, is your power supply (PSU). The ground is the PSU negative terminal. Ground is common between channels A & B.

If for your test condition the scope shows straight lines (DC) then note the magnitude and check against digital meters on the PSU. If those match then you can move the scope to the output and do a similar measurement.

Hope that clears it up.

bi
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Old 07-13-2017, 01:12 PM
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Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi Ufo,

Here's a diagram:



So channel A is current (measuring millivolts across the shunt) and channel B is voltage. The source, represented by the circle with sinewave in that diagram, is your power supply (PSU). The ground is the PSU negative terminal. Ground is common between channels A & B.

If for your test condition the scope shows straight lines (DC) then note the magnitude and check against digital meters on the PSU. If those match then you can move the scope to the output and do a similar measurement.

Hope that clears it up.

bi
Thanks Bistander,

Ok, I found the shunt I had, it is a SIMPSON ELECTRIC CO 100 Amps/50 mV DC.

So, according to that Diagram you are showing, we are JUST MEASURING INPUT to the Device, based on Chanel A (Current) and Chanel B (Voltage) from PSU feeding EXCITERS, correct?

Figuring -as an example- that the Motor COIL on your diagram would be the EXCITER COIL, and somewhere along the circuit, there would be the brake and make from the rotary switch where motor is connected to a separate PSU.

Then a similar connection to the OUTPUT, except that the SHUNT would be SHORT CIRCUITING OUTPUT as a LOAD?

What I think if we do the above then the real output would be shorted out by ZERO resistance on the SHUNT...while the PSU would be feeding the EXCITER COILS with certain resistance (2.0 Ohms).

And so I guess that I should connect the AC/DC Diode Bridge to OUTPUT -as well- in order to define positive-negative for Scope Probes connection correct?

When we have all this clear then I will make a diagram of the whole setup.



Thanks again



Ufopolitics
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Last edited by Ufopolitics; 07-13-2017 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 07-13-2017, 03:51 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Testing

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Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Ok, I found the shunt I had, it is a SIMPSON ELECTRIC CO 100 Amps/50 mV DC.
R = V / I so R = 50mV / 100A = 0.5mΩ. Resistance of the shunt is 0.0005Ω. With your 2Ω primary that will account for additional 0.025% loss. Pretty much negligible. You'll be reading 1mV for every 2 amperes. Your scope should be sensitive enough and hopefully noise won't interfere badly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
So, according to that Diagram you are showing, we are JUST MEASURING INPUT to the Device, based on Chanel A (Current) and Chanel B (Voltage) from PSU feeding EXCITERS, correct?
Yes, for the scope. Since you're using the PSU for a DC source this is just a check to see if it is really putting out true DC and those digital meters can be relied on as accurate. Once that is established, please move the shunt and scope to the output. Hook up in a similar manner to view amperes and volts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Then a similar connection to the OUTPUT, except that the SHUNT would be SHORT CIRCUITING OUTPUT as a LOAD?
Yes, for the short circuit test (maximum current).

Then place a load resistor (or bulb) in series with the shunt for a load test. It would be handy to get several different load points, like one bulb, two then three in series.

Open circuit output test is just the scope measuring the output voltage with no other connections to the output terminals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
And so I guess that I should connect the AC/DC Diode Bridge to OUTPUT -as well- in order to define positive-negative for Scope Probes connection correct?
I'd recommend testing both with AC output (no diodes) and DC with diodes and maybe a filter cap.

Regards,

bi
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Old 07-13-2017, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
R = V / I so R = 50mV / 100A = 0.5mΩ. Resistance of the shunt is 0.0005Ω. With your 2Ω primary that will account for additional 0.025% loss. Pretty much negligible. You'll be reading 1mV for every 2 amperes. Your scope should be sensitive enough and hopefully noise won't interfere badly.
Thanks Bistander, all clear...I guess by testing it will tell me the best settings on the probes mV Scale so we could see a full signal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Yes, for the scope. Since you're using the PSU for a DC source this is just a check to see if it is really putting out true DC and those digital meters can be relied on as accurate. Once that is established, please move the shunt and scope to the output. Hook up in a similar manner to view amperes and volts.
Got it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Yes, for the short circuit test (maximum current).
Understood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Then place a load resistor (or bulb) in series with the shunt for a load test. It would be handy to get several different load points, like one bulb, two then three in series.

Open circuit output test is just the scope measuring the output voltage with no other connections to the output terminals.

I'd recommend testing both with AC output (no diodes) and DC with diodes and maybe a filter cap.

Regards,

bi
Perfect, thanks again for your time on this!!

Right now I am redoing the rotary switch brush pressure adjustment mechanism, since it was lifting up whenever I was close or over to 3600 RPM's, so it was not making good-solid contacts.

I am also building a much more simpler and smaller-compact rotary switch, which would allow me to reverse the exciting field coil by reversing voltage and currents in the switching, kind of an AC Sine but Square. This way the LC Tank would reproduce it at both sine values (so should be stronger)...and hopefully no spikes, cause am leaving an idle angle of "no connection" or brake time between reversals, so no short circuit to PSU terminals will take place...


Regards


Ufopolitics
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Last edited by Ufopolitics; 07-13-2017 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 07-27-2017, 05:39 AM
darediamond darediamond is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanon1492 View Post
This is from a 2012 version of Patrick Kelly ebook, chapter 3, about Richard Willis generator and a simplified version done from a user called silverhealtheu.

"
Richard Willis Generator

....

The input power supply is fed to an electromagnet but is converted into a pulsed supply by the use of an interrupter switch which may be mechanical or electronic. As can be seen, the arrangement is particularly simple although it is an unusual configuration with the electromagnet core touching one of the permanent magnets and not the other. The magnet and electromagnet poles are important, with the permanent magnet North poles pointing towards the electromagnet and when the electromagnet is powered up, it’s South pole is towards the North pole of the permanent magnet which it is touching. This means that when the electromagnet is powered up, its magnetic field strengthens the magnetic field of that magnet.

There is a one-centimetre gap at the other end of the electromagnet and it’s North pole opposes the North pole of the second permanent magnet. With this arrangement, each electromagnet pulse has a major magnetic effect on the area between the two permanent magnets


...

Silverhealtheu

One of the EVGRAY yahoo forum members whose ID is ‘silverhealtheu’ has described a simple device which appears to be not unlike the Richard Willis generator above.

The device consists of an iron bar one inch (25 mm) in diameter and one foot (300 mm) long. At one end, there is a stack of five neodymium magnets and at the opposite end, a single neodymium magnet. At the end with the five magnets, there is a coil of wire which is strongly pulsed by a drive circuit. Down the length of the bar, a series of pick-up coils are positioned. Each of these coils picks up the same level of power that is fed to the pulsing coil and the combined output is said to exceed the input power.





"

Look for the similarities with Figuera... All is about distorting the magnetic fields between two confronted magnets or electromagnets configured in repulsion mode.
Hanson, you are the real deal! I did confermed the Repulsion too.
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