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  #2371  
Old 03-06-2017, 03:42 PM
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Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
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Working on the Self Excited System...

Hello to All,

Yesterday I made a Big Fat Coil...

Based on 20 awg, 1812 ft, (around 18 ohms resistance) and around 55 Turns per Layer, and a total of 37 Layers and the core is 1 1/2 in thick by 2 inches in length.

[IMG][/IMG]

And basically I am working first, on being able to achieve the exciter system to self sustain. Not concern at this point about Main Secondaries Output.

The two exciter Coils were the same one (1) inch long by 1 1/2 thick at 600 ft of 23 awg that I have tested before. And as seen on picture above...they are too small now, meaning, in Radial expansion compared to Fat Coil...

By giving 3600 RPM at 12V input to exciters, the Fat Coil could bank in DC with a Bridge rectifier over 60V.

However, when connecting Cap Bank to Source through a Diode at positive (->l +) to prevent charges to fly back to PSU....then slowly dialing PSU down...the Voltage can not keep on steady, it keeps coming down...gradually, and NOT FASTER than my dialing down, which is a good sign...means, it is retaining somehow...but still comes down.

And this tells me the Electromagnetic Field PULSES are STILL not strong enough in order to keep the system steady at 3600 RPM's or 60 Hertz when disconnecting PSU gradually.

And of course, if I increase PSU power, the Bank could get up to 100 Volts at 30V Input (and I do not want to go higher than 100V because Caps are rated right at 100V, but as I increase Input Banks keeps going higher)...However, it is NOT just a matter of STORED Increase being bigger than Input, BUT to INSTANT and CONSTANT POWER to be stronger delivered by the magnetic pulses, in order to keep up when we disconnect PSU.

I need to get the right RATIO of CONVERSION form steady 60 Hz Field Flashes or Pulses into Output power HIGHER DENSITY here, in order to achieve a Self Excited System.

Before I build bigger exciting coils, I am gonna try to add a couple of steel plates (of like 1/4 inch or bigger, whatever I can get my hands on...) as flares or "fenders" at the front of each exciter Core, in order to magnify field pulses into the Fat Coil.

And again, I am not trying to do "nothing out of this world" here...every Self Excited System Generator works this way, except, they use rotation force of the rotor field to achieve the field fluctuations...and we are using EMP's at same frequencies...so we need to get to a point where with a lower Input, we reach the right constant output power which later on would also Induce Secondaries.

"I have been here before" ...with my Repulsion Generator based on Permanent Magnets, where I had to keep increasing the strength plus number of magnets...However, if anyone have any suggestions would be appreciated.


My development continues...


Thanks and Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #2372  
Old 03-06-2017, 05:46 PM
hanon1492 hanon1492 is offline
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Ufo,

Your coils looks really great!!!!. You may try this simple exciting system with just four diodes. I am sure you will get a much better result that the one I got with my coils. Give it a chance.

http://www.energeticforum.com/294156-post1483.html (you can do it without the resistor R, which is just used to add a DC bias)

Looping back the output with caps toward the exciters to look for self-sustaining operation seems to be a much more complicated test than just measuring the coil output.

I think that Doug told that you need a load consuming output power to see the desired effect. Maybe MM can confirm if I remember it right.

Good luck.
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  #2373  
Old 03-06-2017, 09:58 PM
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Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanon1492 View Post
Ufo,

Your coils looks really great!!!!. You may try this simple exciting system with just four diodes. I am sure you will get a much better result that the one I got with my coils. Give it a chance.

http://www.energeticforum.com/294156-post1483.html (you can do it without the resistor R, which is just used to add a DC bias)
Thanks Hanon,

I do not have the set up right now to do that kind of testing, related to an AC Transformer to reduce at the suitable V and A.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanon1492 View Post
Looping back the output with caps toward the exciters to look for self-sustaining operation seems to be a much more complicated test than just measuring the coil output.
Not really complicated, it is the ONLY WAY to know if the Induced Power goes above the Exciter or Inducing Field(s) Magnitude and Fluctuations. Plus, also this will show the point of output where we have enough Induction Field as to go for the Secondaries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanon1492 View Post
I think that Doug told that you need a load consuming output power to see the desired effect. Maybe MM can confirm if I remember it right.

Good luck.
Yes, and so, the Induced Coil supplying power to retro-feed Exciter Coils would act as a Load.

And what Doug said was that this system needs a "Phantom Load" to Operate properly, as he suggested it would be the "second secondary" which would always be retro feeding exciters, once we disconnect from the external source...and my "Fat Coil" is acting exactly as that...

Btw, I did a test with Ultra caps and it gives me much slower decay response which allows me more time to play with acceleration (RPM's) plus other adjustments, while showing increase-decrease by milli-volts accuracy of Caps on Digital Meters.


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #2374  
Old 03-06-2017, 10:18 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Phantom load

Hi Ufo,

It sounds to me like your y coil (the fatboy) is over twice what's needed for those primaries (N & S). Is it possible to access a coil turn on like layer 18? Cut and configure for 2 nearly identical y coils? Use the inner y coil for your phantom load (resistor) and the outer y coil to loop thru bridge rectifier and filter (cap).

Just an idea....

bi
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  #2375  
Old 03-06-2017, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi Ufo,

It sounds to me like your y coil (the fatboy) is over twice what's needed for those primaries (N & S). Is it possible to access a coil turn on like layer 18? Cut and configure for 2 nearly identical y coils?
Hello Bistander,

Yes, agree with you, Fat Boy is too big for those exciting coils.

Yes, I do have access, it is just Tape and Copper...so, let me see if I understood, what you are saying is to cut at half way (leveling with Exciters end surface) and re make another coil with the upper end wires, starting from core right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Use the inner y coil for your phantom load (resistor) and the outer y coil to loop thru bridge rectifier and filter (cap).

Just an idea....

bi
I like the idea, now the inner coil and outer would go all at center between both primaries? then one with resistor (maybe a diode as well to enhance field) and just one to retro-feed exciter coils?

I was thinking to make a couple less fat coils and half the one I have (1 In length) and leveled to exciters, in order to test with the diagram I showed before which would render more output power.

This Fat Coil is one piece from start to end through all 2 inches length.


Thanks



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  #2376  
Old 03-06-2017, 11:05 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Split coil

Ufo,

I was trying to keep it simple. No winding. Just snip a turn on the end of fatboy about midway from tbe core to the outer layer (like layer 18).

So after you cut that mid turn, you have two wires. One will pair with the original start winding to give you both ends on the inner coil. The other wire left at the mid point pairs with the outer end winding on the original coil to give you both ends to the outer coil.

You can always reconnect to two mid wires and have your original fatboy single coil. Or you can use separately the inner and outer coils.

bi
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  #2377  
Old 03-07-2017, 04:30 PM
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Split Coils Tests

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Ufo,

I was trying to keep it simple. No winding. Just snip a turn on the end of fatboy about midway from tbe core to the outer layer (like layer 18).

So after you cut that mid turn, you have two wires. One will pair with the original start winding to give you both ends on the inner coil. The other wire left at the mid point pairs with the outer end winding on the original coil to give you both ends to the outer coil.

You can always reconnect to two mid wires and have your original fatboy single coil. Or you can use separately the inner and outer coils.

bi

Hello Bistander,

Thanks, it was a great learning experience to perform that test!!

I broke like a mid layer and split it, so I will call Coil 1 to the inner one next to core and Coil 2 to Outer, exterior one.

I did Two Test with snubber diodes (fly-back) preventing negative spikes to get back to source, this way the square wave is neat, no spikes on scope...HOWEVER, all power drops down considerably as it will be shown on tests results below.

Sorry guys, but this fact above tells us that driving coils on this set up through electronic boards (Solid State) will definitively bring down your Output Levels result, as we will need all switching FET's to be protected by fly-back diodes...otherwise will be replacing them like there is no tomorrow...that is just my opinion...unless we develop some other way, where FET's could stand Primaries Coils back spikes without diodes from Pulsing Positive to Negative Source.


OUTPUT SPLIT COILS TEST:

Coil 1 (Inner) Resistance= 8.9 ohms
Coil 2 (Outer) Resistance=10.0 ohms

Input 20V / 0.4A and raises to 0.8 to 1.0 A whenever UNDER LOAD /3558 RPM's

AC OUTPUT RESULT WITHOUT FLY BACK DIODES:

Coil 1= 22.8V / 0.380A

Coil 2= 14.6V / 0.406A

AC OUTPUT RESULT WITH FLY BACK DIODES:

Coil 1 = 14.5V / 0.271A

Coil 2 = 9.5V / 0.260A

BOTH COILS IN SERIES WITH FLY BACK DIODES CONNECTED

Coil 1 + Coil 2 = 24.2V / 0.167A (AC)

BOTH COILS IN SERIES WITHOUT FLY BACK DIODES CONNECTED

Coil 1 + Coil 2 = 39.5V / 0.237A (AC)

Things to note about this tests:

I tested the fly back diodes, since the linear PSU kept bouncing analog meter needles, while the very rough protection system kept bumping on and off during tests...plus the Scope Signal was perfectly clean...but as you all could see...the Induction performance decays considerably by adding diodes on this set up.

Input Amperage raises whenever the Amp meter shorts out either coils, or when an incandescent bulb is connected, the increase is around 0.4 to 0.6 Amps. No matter if fly back diodes are or not connected.

One Coil is COMPLETELY DEPENDENT UPON THE OTHER related to INDUCTION OUTPUT. Meaning, if I connect a Bulb to Coil 1, and it is nicely bright...when connecting a second bulb to Coil 2 Both DIM OUT considerably...Like SUCKING ALL POWER FROM MAGNETIC FIELD when both are ON and OCCUPYING THE SAME EXACT SPATIAL VOLUME where Field is Fluctuating.

At least to me...this Tests told me a lot of things...as am sure you will also draw many conclusions.


Many thanks Bistander it was a great idea to do that!!


I will be uploading some pic's of the tests above and add them to this post later on...so keep refreshing page if you wanna see them...

PICTURE BELOW:FLY BACK DIODES ON, nice Scope Signal, very clean...Output= 13.3 V :

[IMG][/IMG]

FLY BACK DIODES OFF, SIGNAL SCRAMBLED BY SPIKES
(Compare V Meter results at left, Output= 20.6V, Same Input, same speed as Pic above...):

[IMG][/IMG]

NEAT SCOPE SIGNALS WITH DIODES ON...POOR OUTPUT RESULTS THOUGH:

[IMG][/IMG]

LINEAR PSU OUTPUT= A bit less than 20 V and like 0.3-0.4 A:

[IMG][/IMG]

Switching PSU providing Motor Supply to develop 3559 RPM's:

[IMG][/IMG]




Regards to All


Ufopolitics
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  #2378  
Old 03-07-2017, 07:24 PM
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seaad seaad is online now
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Another idea

Signals to N and S coils phase shifted 90 degrees. (sinusoid)

First 1/2 stroke:.....Bottom Y-coil a magnetic N passes in left direction.
............................Top Y-coil a magnetic S passes in right direction.

Second1/2 stroke: Bottom Y-coil a magnetic S passes in left direction,
...........................Top Y-coil a magnetic N passes in right direction.

Regards / Arne
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  #2379  
Old 03-07-2017, 08:19 PM
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Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seaad View Post
Another idea

Signals to N and S coils phase shifted 90 degrees. (sinusoid)

First 1/2 stroke:.....Bottom Y-coil a magnetic N passes in left direction.
............................Top Y-coil a magnetic S passes in right direction.

Second1/2 stroke: Bottom Y-coil a magnetic S passes in left direction,
...........................Top Y-coil a magnetic N passes in right direction.

Regards / Arne
Seaad,

NONE...but I mean not even one option would work.

Fields are completely DIRECTIONAL...FACE TO FACE.

Only way that "sideways" (90deg) would work...is If Field fluctuates or moves following or through the y core center line.

Keep trying...


Ufopolitics
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  #2380  
Old 03-07-2017, 08:26 PM
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seaad seaad is online now
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It works! A first quick test real fysical transformer with center core = toroid gave 87%

PS. More thoroughly tests later shows that the efficiency factor is very high but never goes above 100%, just some percent below. Sad!
Arne
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Last edited by seaad; 03-27-2017 at 09:17 AM.
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  #2381  
Old 03-08-2017, 10:54 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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2-phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by seaad View Post

Test freq. 10 Khz with two sinus signals , 0 and 90 (91-92) degree phase shift.

Input1; . Vin1 4.73 V Iin1 25.95 mA IN1 phase 75.6 degree
Input2; . Vin2 4.73 V Iin2 26.14 mA IN2 phase 80.3 degree
Hi seaad,

You can't have 90 2-phase common ground. Need 4 wires. IIRC.... Was a long time ago when I used a 2-phase.

bi
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  #2382  
Old 03-09-2017, 04:06 AM
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seaad seaad is online now
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Hi bi;
I'm splitting the incoming sinus signal to my 10 Watt stereo amplifier. One straight on and the other via a small cap (C/R) and an extra adjustable amplifier making one of the signals to be delayed about 92. Two signals out 0 + 90 and one common ground (G + G).
Makes four wires going to the contraption.

https://electricalnotes.wordpress.co...f-transformer/
Se pic: 2Phase three wire

Regards / Arne
Attached Images
File Type: jpg cos-sinewave.jpg (33.3 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg 2Phase three wire.jpg (8.3 KB, 12 views)
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  #2383  
Old 03-09-2017, 05:10 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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2-phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by seaad View Post
Hi bi;
I'm splitting the incoming sinus signal to my 10 Watt stereo amplifier. See pic. One straight on and the other via a small cap (C/R) and an extra adjustable amplifier making one of the signals to be delayed about 92. Two signals out 0 + 90 and one common ground (G + G).
Makes four wires to the contraption.

Regards / Arne
Hi seaad,

OK, but you get fluctuating ground potential or something weird like that. There was a good reason they used to run 4 wires from isolated coils on generators to get the 2-phase 90.

So when you show all measurements to ground, both input and output, the common ground could alter accuracy. Neat to see what you're doing but a bit far from Figuera. It might motivate someone with a mechanical part G to try your coil/core arrangement.

Regards,

bi
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  #2384  
Old 03-23-2017, 08:07 PM
hanon1492 hanon1492 is offline
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A user in OU.com forum has posted this:

Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE

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  #2385  
Old 04-13-2017, 05:02 PM
Elcheapo Elcheapo is offline
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amp-turns

To all.


Here's something to think about.
I found the writings of Joseph Cater highly interesting,especially his theories on electricity and magnetism.

He says that when a coil is pulsed with dc with no reversals of the current, then the coil has no impedance.
Just the same resistance as a straight piece of wire.
This would imply that we should be winding our coils with more turns for a stronger magnetic field.

He also says that for an iron core, there's a critical point in ampere-turns where just a small increase will
put out a very strong magnetic field. A gauss gauge would come in handy for finding this point.
By adding more turns, this could also mean that we could use less amperage to drive the coils.
Less amps means smaller wire. Smaller wire means the outer layers are closer to the core for better efficiency.
Of course less amps would also mean we could use much lower wattage resistors (if that's the way you want to go).

I'm sure Figueras already had this all figured out.

Let's get this thread back on track!
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  #2386  
Old 04-23-2017, 04:24 PM
Diplomacy Diplomacy is online now
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Is the Input/Output voltage of Figuera's original device known?

Also the device reminds me of this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halbach_array
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  #2387  
Old 05-25-2017, 04:31 AM
marxist marxist is offline
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weakening strength of Lenz effect

Hi hanon and all,

I re-read Figuera's first patents, in which he describes his first machines: the ones with rotating coils. I was trying to find the basic principle he "invented" and wanted to understand how he carried this principle from those machines to his later setups with fixed coils.
I found that "all he did" was 2 things:
  • 1) omitting iron and other ferromagnetic cores from generating coils (secondaries).
    In this way he "weakened" the magnetic feedback-effect (he called it "communication") from the secondaries to the primaries.
  • 2) strengthening the primary magnetic field in the area where the electrical power is produced, that is in the generating coils.
Let's give this a more detailed look:

Why do electromagnets always have iron cores?
Because a ferromagnetic core boosts the magnetic effect of a coil.
Figuera used this in his primaries.

Now let's try to see this from another angle: a lot of electrical current can flow through a coil but it will only produce a weak magnetic field, as long as this coil has an air-core.
Figuera used this fact in his secondaries, so that the magnetic field of the generated current would not create opposition to the primary magnetic field.

Let's look at generators and at Lenz's law:

The faster a generator turns, the more power gets produced. More current will flow in the generating coils (secondaries). Consequently the magnetic flux or field of this current - which opposes rotation - will also rise.
This opposing magnetic flux is unavoidable but it can only create a strong opposing force acting as a brake on rotation, if it can polarize an iron core.

Back to Figuera:

Well, in his setup with rotating coils he strengthened the primary field, by putting magnets on BOTH sides of the generating coils.

And how did he weaken the secondary field (the opposing field) while generating high current in the secondaries?
By NOT putting iron cores into them.
Later Figuera stopped using rotating coils, creating the changing primary field without moving parts.

How did he preserve the working principle in those later setups?

To provide high generating field strength in the secondaries he prolonged the cores of the primary coils to reach into the secondaries. But only so far, that these cores always remained polarized by the primaries - not to be polarized by the secondaries.
To achieve this, the cores of his primaries, protruding into the secondaries from either side, were not allowed to touch each other in the secondaries. There always needs to be an air-gap in each secondary.

If the length of a primary's core that protrudes into the secondary is chosen correctly, the current in the secondary can not polarize that core and "communication" between the primary and the secondary magnetic field is avoided.

In such a setup Lenz law is valid yet irrelevant.
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  #2388  
Old 05-25-2017, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marxist View Post
Hi hanon and all,

I re-read Figuera's first patents, in which he describes his first machines: the ones with rotating coils. I was trying to find the basic principle he "invented" and wanted to understand how he carried this principle from those machines to his later setups with fixed coils.
I found that "all he did" was 2 things:
  • 1) omitting iron and other ferromagnetic cores from generating coils (secondaries).
    In this way he "weakened" the magnetic feedback-effect (he called it "communication") from the secondaries to the primaries.
  • 2) strengthening the primary magnetic field in the area where the electrical power is produced, that is in the generating coils.
Let's give this a more detailed look:

Why do electromagnets always have iron cores?
Because a ferromagnetic core boosts the magnetic effect of a coil.
Figuera used this in his primaries.

Now let's try to see this from another angle: a lot of electrical current can flow through a coil but it will only produce a weak magnetic field, as long as this coil has an air-core.
Figuera used this fact in his secondaries, so that the magnetic field of the generated current would not create opposition to the primary magnetic field.

Let's look at generators and at Lenz's law:

The faster a generator turns, the more power gets produced. More current will flow in the generating coils (secondaries). Consequently the magnetic flux or field of this current - which opposes rotation - will also rise.
This opposing magnetic flux is unavoidable but it can only create a strong opposing force acting as a brake on rotation, if it can polarize an iron core.

Back to Figuera:

Well, in his setup with rotating coils he strengthened the primary field, by putting magnets on BOTH sides of the generating coils.

And how did he weaken the secondary field (the opposing field) while generating high current in the secondaries?
By NOT putting iron cores into them.
Later Figuera stopped using rotating coils, creating the changing primary field without moving parts.

How did he preserve the working principle in those later setups?

To provide high generating field strength in the secondaries he prolonged the cores of the primary coils to reach into the secondaries. But only so far, that these cores always remained polarized by the primaries - not to be polarized by the secondaries.
To achieve this, the cores of his primaries, protruding into the secondaries from either side, were not allowed to touch each other in the secondaries. There always needs to be an air-gap in each secondary.

If the length of a primary's core that protrudes into the secondary is chosen correctly, the current in the secondary can not polarize that core and "communication" between the primary and the secondary magnetic field is avoided.

In such a setup Lenz law is valid yet irrelevant.
Yes.I think we all got it. It is very clearly described by Figuera. However many people do not understand the importance of this quite simple flow of thoughts.
Figuera generator once constructed and operated without external power source (except for the start-up) would just prove two facts (for me they are facts, yet there are still theories without a working generator):

1. The source of electric energy is magnetic field , not the mechanical work or the chemical reaction or atomic power or whatever the politicians forces us to believe.

2. There is a problem with our generators because they are constructed in a way to use positive feedback to create huge magnetic field by consuming a fuel (oil,coal,steam) to put mechanical force to overcome seemingly unavoidable "conversion of mechanical energy" -the drag created by magnetic dipole formed between the cores of generating and output coils.
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  #2389  
Old 05-25-2017, 11:04 AM
jegz jegz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
Yes.I think we all got it. It is very clearly described by Figuera. However many people do not understand the importance of this quite simple flow of thoughts.
Figuera generator once constructed and operated without external power source (except for the start-up) would just prove two facts (for me they are facts, yet there are still theories without a working generator):

1. The source of electric energy is magnetic field , not the mechanical work or the chemical reaction or atomic power or whatever the politicians forces us to believe.

2. There is a problem with our generators because they are constructed in a way to use positive feedback to create huge magnetic field by consuming a fuel (oil,coal,steam) to put mechanical force to overcome seemingly unavoidable "conversion of mechanical energy" -the drag created by magnetic dipole formed between the cores of generating and output coils.
Agreed! especially point 1..proof is in the common petrol generator that needs to be cranked by hand....the weak residual magnetic fields are sufficient to induce current that in turn excites the stator windings with a slightly stronger field and this cycle continues to snowball until the point where thee is sufficient power for a load.
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Old 05-25-2017, 01:34 PM
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Agreed! especially point 1..proof is in the common petrol generator that needs to be cranked by hand....the weak residual magnetic fields are sufficient to induce current that in turn excites the stator windings with a slightly stronger field and this cycle continues to snowball until the point where thee is sufficient power for a load.
Yes, and that is the secret knowledge known by elite who do not like to trow away big energy business. It is known probably from the beginning (Daniel McFarland Cook had device in 1872) .
And Hubbard was able to use only initial impulse to generate excess energy of really commercial value. 13 MW of continuous power for Hubbard device just a 5 meters long.
I really do not understand how this is overlooked by academic science.
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Old 05-28-2017, 06:36 PM
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Talking Figuera Device

Good points are brought up.
The Figuera device has no residual magnetic field to operate off of so the field must be created each time the device is operated. once the field is established it will operate as does a regular gen a side from the fact that the Figuera device only pushes the weightless massless field side to side so the initial currant draw will drop once the field is established.

Dougs squirrel cage description was the greatest when describing the function of the Figuera device. once the secondary field is set up the primaries have no problem in pushing the field from side to side. the attraction of a standard geny will surpass the output by a considerable amount as the drag increases as the load increases.

the input for both to create the field is actually considerably small compared to the output if not for the drag on a standard gen unlike the Figuera device which has none.

Good Memorial day Gentleman, please remember us vets in a moment of silence and a good prayer.

MM
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Old 05-30-2017, 04:47 AM
Elcheapo Elcheapo is offline
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More to think about

I have to agree with Marxist in that the secondary coils be just air-core.
The 1908 patent uses 4 secondaries and the spacing between the 4 polepieces looks to be quite small.
From the picture, it looks like the cores are closed ( for much less reluctance)
I dont think straight open cores will work.

I seem to think that the secondaries should be wound perpendicular
to that of the solenoid coils. They would have to be quite narrow and sandwiched in between the 2 pole pieces.The solenoid cores should have as large a perimeter as possible with the secondary coils of the same perimeter right in the middle of this changing magnetic field.

This would cancel any transformer effect by not getting any emf inducement from the solenoid coils. We only want the secondary coil to PRODUCE free energy, and not take it from the circuit.
The main important thing that people seem to ignore, is that when current in coil A is going up, then current in coil B should go down by the same amount. (in unison)
The key is "SAME AMOUNT".
Well you can't just use a bunch of 1 or 2 ohm resistors and expect results.
I think Figueras had his 8 resistors custom made to suit the purpose.
The purpose being able to mitigate the Lenz effect with his 2 uniquely positioned solenoids.
As an example:
IF Coil A is pulsed at 8 amps & coil B at 4 amps, then next G position would be A= 5: B=7: etc.. The sum of A and B always has to be exactly the same. In this case it is 12 amps.
So the source current (as well as source voltage) is always constant.No change means no bemf. And yes, there is mention of a constant current by Figueras.
He was a very smart man!
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Old 05-30-2017, 12:40 PM
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Why not "brake off" from the Rotary Structure?

Hello All,

I do not agree with Secondary Air Cores...

Secondaries Coils are dedicated just to COLLECT all the Magnetism from Exciting Coils, and having Iron Cores will definitively AMPLIFY this Induction.

This Magnetism Force from Exciters should only be a "FLASH" or a Wang-Bang (thank You Ma'm...) and done deal, to then REPEAT again, just like a Generator does.

Setting Secondaries at 90 to Exciter's is not gonna induce nada...absolutely nothing, I have already tested that option before.

Air Gaps?...why?...we no longer have a Rotary System?...then why "preserve" such structure?

Figuera is great, but he is still bound (on his 1908 patent) to a rotary system config, but static..which he don't need to.

Also, having at all times currents from source feeding primaries is not required either, and is a HUGE LOSS, we just need Electro Magnetic Pulses which FLASH-CHARGE Secondaries, so that the more we pulse the closer this charges are between them...so, the more Robust and higher continuous output.

Look at a Rotary Generator Exciter System...the Cap is only from 200 to 300 mfd or even lower capacitance...why?...why not make it larger?...just because these exciting fields process is based on Flash Discharges at the right timing to Secondaries, and at exactly 90 it recharges back again...to then "repeat process"...and so actually this discharge-charge takes place every 90 degrees, so, in 360 (full cycle) it does "Four Tempos", Two Charges and Two discharges.

Besides all of the above...side Induction (face to face) through an air gap is part of a rotary structure...and this form of Induction carries too many losses and is much weaker...that is why it is required (in Figuera) Two Exciters with just one secondary sandwiched between...IMHO, this is too much energy spent in the Exciter System, to just induce one single primary.

Those above were just my opinions...You Guys do whatever you feel is best to your set up...


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #2394  
Old 05-30-2017, 12:51 PM
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Excellent Post!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jegz View Post
Agreed! especially point 1..proof is in the common petrol generator that needs to be cranked by hand....the weak residual magnetic fields are sufficient to induce current that in turn excites the stator windings with a slightly stronger field and this cycle continues to snowball until the point where thee is sufficient power for a load.

Hi Jegz,

That above post has been the BEST reasoning I have read in a while...

And it goes even further...

This residual Magnetism is ENOUGH to reach its peak CHARGE-DISCHARGE RATIO, once the 60 Hertz or 3600 RPM's are obtained.

Obviously in just a few minutes of running time at FULL SPEED it will be ready to take a load from Secondaries.

Once I also thought that the Exciting Fields were ON AT ALL TIME during Rotation...but this is completely false...it is a process of Charge-Discharge separated by 90 degrees in a Single Phase Home Genny.

And this Charge-Discharge Process applies to Brushed and Brushless Home Generators.

This is VERY IMPORTANT to know...when we apply it to our Static Systems.


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #2395  
Old 05-30-2017, 02:14 PM
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I forgot to mention that this Charge-Discharge Process only takes place when Generator is LOADED.

For NO-LOAD conditions secondaries are not being discharged, therefore, Exciter remains Charged.

This is it Guys...all the rest is your capability of INVENTION and DEVELOPMENT.


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #2396  
Old 05-30-2017, 06:16 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Standard generator

Hi Ufo,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
...

Look at a Rotary Generator Exciter System...the Cap is only from 200 to 300 mfd or even lower capacitance...why?...why not make it larger?...just because these exciting fields process is based on Flash Discharges at the right timing to Secondaries, and at exactly 90 it recharges back again...to then "repeat process"...and so actually this discharge-charge takes place every 90 degrees, so, in 360 (full cycle) it does "Four Tempos", Two Charges and Two discharges.
...
The cap is primarily a filter on the bridge rectifier plus aiding the establishment of residual if needed.

{edit}


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
...

Once I also thought that the Exciting Fields were ON AT ALL TIME during Rotation...but this is completely false...it is a process of Charge-Discharge separated by 90 degrees in a Single Phase Home Genny.
...
Maybe just difference in terminology, but the field (rotor) runs at a steady DC from the bridge and cap. Didn't you take the current and voltage a while back. What you get is a steady N pole on the rotor (field) sweeping the armature coils (in the stator slots) followed by the S pole on the rotor. This induces (generates) AC in the armature (stator winding). I'm at a loss as to what is charging and discharging at 90.

Regards,

bi
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Old 05-30-2017, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi Ufo,



The cap is primarily a filter on the bridge rectifier plus aiding the establishment of residual if needed.



Maybe just difference in terminology, but the field (rotor) runs at a steady DC from the bridge and cap. Didn't you take the current and voltage a while back. What you get is a steady N pole on the rotor (field) sweeping the armature coils (in the stator slots) followed by the S pole on the rotor. This induces (generates) AC in the armature (stator winding). I'm at a loss as to what is charging and discharging at 90.

Regards,

bi
Hi Bistander,

Again here we are on same topic....

Cap does not retain even a Microvolt.
.after generator has stopped. It actually drains out to the heavy 65 plus ohms of the fine wire from rotor coil via brushes.

I condicted this readings on a NO LOAD condition.

If exciter is running ON full time why not get a more capacitance cap?..because.it wont work...

Discharge of the flux induction to secpndaries as requested by LOAD.


Regards...sorry on my cel


Ufo
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  #2398  
Old 05-30-2017, 10:58 PM
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Exclamation Lost me

I agree with Bistander, the cap is just for smoothing purposes but will discharge when unit is shut off only to be filled again when started to aide in the dips of transition.
exciter fields are DC and on all the time but take little to excite them.
of course the bridge rectifier is part of the AVR unit.

as for the sine wave, yes that hits Zero when in transition from the positive to the negative cycle. there will be zero volts if thats what you are talking about. other than that you lost me.

Elcheapo;
This is exactly what i have been saying since the beginning. the amount of flux from the two primaries add up to the output of the secondary at all times no mater if it is high or low or even, it will always add up to the amount required for your output you desired, and of course in complete unison or the output will drop to the peak of the high primary which is about 50% of it's output capability.

MM
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Last edited by marathonman; 05-31-2017 at 09:12 PM.
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  #2399  
Old 06-01-2017, 07:37 PM
Elcheapo Elcheapo is offline
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basic stuff

Guys;
This device has NO primaries or secondaries. These are terms used for transformers.
We are not building transformers here. We are using 2 solenoid coils and 1 induced coil.
That coil being induced ONLY by a fluctuating magnetic field and no communication whatever with the solenoids.
Let's concentrate on some of the basic problems with this thing.
I think we all agree that we need a strongly varying magnetic field for the thing to work.

It's the amp-turns that determines the strength of this field. We also want to use as little
input power as possible to get this field. We can get the same field strength from a coil of 400
turns and 4 amps as from a 200 turn coil using 8 amps. But some will say "Yah but what about inductive
reactance, Won't a large turn coil cut into the current?"

Well inductive reactance only shows up on ac current that keeps reversing in direction. We will
be driving our coils with pulsed dc that never changes direction and varies within a limited voltage range.

There is a point on the BH curve where just a small increase in amp-turns gets a big increase in
magnetic flux. We should all be experimenting to find this sweet spot.
This is the area that our solenoid coils should be working in. For example:
Use just enough voltage to get the coil current into this sweet spot and then just as little of
voltage as possible to get out of the sweet spot.That way we get maximum magnetic fluctuation with
a small change in voltage. That small voltage change will also reduce any tendency for BEMF.

It was MM who pointed out in his rules"at no time is the primaries reduced to below half way and NEVER ZERO"
I think that rule applies here.

Ok, let's hear from the naysayers.
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Old 06-01-2017, 10:45 PM
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Exclamation Terminology

I agree Elcheapo, the terms primary and secondary could quite be adding confusion into the mix.
inducer and induced coils would work along with solenoid coils. also the term inductor is blowing peoples mind as this is not the regular way an inductor is used. we could start calling it for it's original name of reactor and there for we are altering the self inductance of the reactor as the brush rotates to vary the voltage and or currant of the inducers/solenoid.

you are correct about the inductive reactance but i would not say we are using pulsed DC.
I to have my coils wired to get a good field with little amps, i think around two amps.

and again you are correct as the rule is exactly that applies here. if you take your inducer/solenoid down to far you will loose the magnetic field Pressure between the two and induction will fall to the rising inducer which is 50 % reduction in output. that is the reason Figuera chose a reactor with a brush because the two opposing N-N fields in the reactor will allow the coil wound around the reactor core to act as two separate variable currant/voltage controllers in complete unison.

ALSO.....

repost from other thread...

When half of part G lets say to set S is decreasing (brush rotation), energy is being released from the magnetic field in to the system feeding the increasing set N while the other half set N is storing energy in the magnetic field (brush rotation) to feed set S the next half turn. each cycle feeds the next high primary but since no system built by man is lossless the input from the secondary is needed to replace losses from heat, wire and core losses which doesn't amount to much since currant requirements will drop once the system is up and running. once running the original power supply can be removed and the secondary will replace the little losses as needed.
thus the energy is in fact recycled over and over only to replace what is lost.

MM
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Last edited by marathonman; 06-01-2017 at 10:48 PM.
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