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  #511 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2013, 04:40 PM
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Allcanadian Allcanadian is online now
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@Erfinder
Quote:
Please start a thread man! I want to discuss more about your view of magnetism so that I can expand my horizons. Under the banner that you raise, I will share my findings if that's cool with you. The thread should be dedicated magnetism as you see it. I will follow your lead! Post that "magnetic" bearing! I can design a new rig to accommodate it.
I started a new thread labelled Cause and effect in Electro-magnetic systems. I hope everyone will continue the related discussion there and let the work here continue on topic.

AC
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:11 PM
hanon1492 hanon1492 is offline
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Patent 30378 technical study (1902)

Hi all,

Apart from the 1908 Figuera patent there is another Figuera patent (No. 30378 dated in 1902) about a motionless electrical generator: Patent 30378. Some weeks ago a user posted a technical study of the windings of this patent but it passed almost unnoticed. This 1902 device is even simpler to replicate thant the 1908 generator. Figuera appeared in the newspapers in 1902 when he was using this generator to produce 20 HP. Therefore we know that he got high energy gains with this generator. Later, Figuera changed his design after selling this patent to a banker union.

A deep study about this patent was also done by an forum user. You can find his technical study in the next link, which is really worthwhile to read it:

Figuera 1902 patent No. 30278 technical study

Note: The induced winding is denoted by (c) while the inducer electromagnets are (a) and (b)




As conclusion: "BECAUSE THE INTERIOR WINDINGS (b) ARE TOTALLY ENCLOSED BY THE INDUCED WIDING (c) THE INDUCED MAGNETIC FIELD WILL ENTER AND LEAVE THE TURNS OF THE INTERIOR WINDING (b) INDUCING A ZERO NET VOLTAGE, WHICH RESULTS IN A CANCELLATION OF THE EFFECTS OF THE LENZ’S LAW. IN OTHER WORDS, THE LOAD CURRENT FLOWING IN THE c-WINDING IS NOT REFLECTED BACK TO THE b-WINDING."


Regarding the methods to minimize the effect of Lenz's law, one can see that Figuera used two method: the method of in the 1902 patent and the method in the 1908 patent. If you draw the magnetic flowpath in the 1902 generator, it can be noted that the flow of the induced coil (external) enters and leaves the inducer coil (internal). Because the inducer coil is symmetrically placed at 90 degrees inside the induced, the flow from the induced coil will enter and leave the inducer coil. If the flow enters and leaves the coil no voltage will be induced in it. Notice that it is not enough to placed those coils at 90 degrees but also there must be symmetry. This is because if there is no symmetry the balance of magnetic flux entering is not necessarily equal to the magnetic flux coming out.

According to this user, the method of 1908 is different. While one coil induces another coil deviates the induced magnetic flux so that this flux does not oppose to the coil which is inducing.
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Old 09-14-2013, 03:56 PM
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1.
Pondering on how to build that transformer above I wonder if we can use soft annealled black iron wire in order to wind 4 separate segments (see green marking in post above) on a jig. The iron oxide might be a good reasonable insulator in order to prevent excessive eddy currents.

After assembling those segments and fixing the form by epoxy we could cut out the gaps for the induced winding.
Tha idea originates basically from ribbon wound transformers (cores and copper coils)


2.
Alternatively: does anybody know a good source for transformer core ribbon?

3.
Those induced wirings might be performed by copper or aluminum strip along an insulating layer.
It can be done with double layer in order to test different bifilar setups. The layer winding gets interwinding capacitance high! Will this be an disadvantage?

4.
I have plenty of 9V wall chargers available. Will it possible to use those windings and connect them 8x in parallel? I f yeas I could manufacture the "wired" (see above) core fitting to those transformer coils.

5.
Are there more ideas available in how to get an easy proof of concept?
John Stone

Last edited by JohnStone : 09-14-2013 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 09-15-2013, 02:02 AM
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Microwave "E" core.

Hi John,

The easiest way to build this core is to use a microwave transformer. Just take the "E" core and split the layers and then stack them 2 facing each others then the next layer, rotate 90 degrees and so on, you can even cut the straight keeper to fit the empty spaces in the center. then you cut the center cross with a reciprocating saw giving you about a 1/8" air gap. you need to insulate the layers and you should be fine for some crude tests but it might just work.

Take care,

Michel

P.S.:Tesla was promoting the soft annealed black iron wire and if it was rusted, even better.
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Old 09-15-2013, 08:02 AM
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"Material: low carbon steel wire Q195."

Is that pure iron or not ?
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
"Material: low carbon steel wire Q195."

Is that pure iron or not ?
Not pure iron but low C see
JS

Last edited by JohnStone : 09-15-2013 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Michelinho View Post
Hi John,

The easiest way to build this core is to use a microwave transformer. Just take the "E" core and split the layers and then stack them 2 facing each others then the next layer, rotate 90 degrees and so on, you can even cut the straight keeper to fit the empty spaces in the center. then you cut the center cross with a reciprocating saw giving you about a 1/8" air gap. you need to insulate the layers and you should be fine for some crude tests but it might just work.

Take care,

Michel

P.S.:Tesla was promoting the soft annealed black iron wire and if it was rusted, even better.
Thanks for hints. Pondering on it. My transformer laminates are glued together. Not easy to separate!
Cheers
John
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Old 09-15-2013, 06:08 PM
interdesign21 interdesign21 is offline
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Hello everybody
Some hep needed, if anyone is kind to answer.
I do not have means to exactly replicate the patents but I made a setup for experimentation.
Made it with recycled stuff from junk.

Wish I had an oscope, because the first measurements are unreliable (and crazy)
Based in a 8 segments DC motor commutator run by a small dc motor

The idea was to study if feeding the inductor with a variable DC current, there is Lenz,
or in other words a kind of square pulse over the 0V line. (see the setup layout)
The resistances are fixed at the back of commutator in a sequence: Low-High-Low-High in one cycle.(low=2 Ohm.)

The motor and the central inductor L3 are powered with different power supplies.
The carbon brushes are a bit narrower than comm. segments.

I have tested with 100, 1K, 10K, 100K resistances
The voltage at the electrolytic cap goes crazy (always same inductive load) I guess that due to different freq.from standard)
The Amps at input says 200mA at 12V (at R=10K)

From R=1K lots of sparks at comm. and the neon lits red, with 100K looots of sparks and I can see purple light.
A non gutted CFL parallel to the neon, flashes.
With a resistive load everything goes down.

My questions for the experts (Mr. John Stone ? ):

- does the neon lights because of the sparks or from L3 BEMF ?
- Is there a simple way to stabilize the V at output ?
- Is the sharp change of R causing a collapse bellow 0Volts in L3 and therefore a kick back ?
-Is the current induced in L1.L2 AC (at a freq. related to RPM) or type triangular -saw tooth? (theoretically)


in the meantime I am showing this, as it may be of inspiration for someone

cheers
Alvaro
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FIGUERAconcept setup.jpg (100.8 KB, 113 views)
File Type: jpg FIGUERAconcept.jpg (191.8 KB, 85 views)

Last edited by interdesign21 : 09-15-2013 at 06:16 PM.
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  #519 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2013, 07:39 PM
a.king21 a.king21 is offline
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Interdesign21: I like your setup. In the Figuera patent he says you have to avoid sparks by having 2 connections and always make before break.
Because you got sparks it means you got radiant energy which is why your ne2's lit up.(BEMF also known as CEMF)
Blue means very high voltages.
If the ne 2 lights up on one side it is pulsed dc. The lit side is negative.
If both sides of the ne2 are lit then you have pulsed AC or regular AC.
Anyway, keep experimenting. All reports are good science.
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Old 09-15-2013, 07:53 PM
interdesign21 interdesign21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.king21 View Post
Interdesign21: I like your setup. In the Figuera patent he says you have to avoid sparks by having 2 connections and always make before break.
Because you got sparks it means you got radiant energy which is why your ne2's lit up.(BEMF also known as CEMF)
Blue means very high voltages.
If the ne 2 lights up on one side it is pulsed dc. The lit side is negative.
If both sides of the ne2 are lit then you have pulsed AC or regular AC.
Anyway, keep experimenting. All reports are good science.
Thanks a.king21
the brushes are make before break and the sparks appear when they quit a low R segment and enter High R.
The two sides of neon always lights, so I suppose to be feeding the center coil with AC. ???
Could I use this output with another collector coil instead the neon ???

too many questions I´m afraid
Alvaro
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  #521 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2013, 06:23 AM
a.king21 a.king21 is offline
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Interdesign21: In the Figuera patent it is stated that you can get extra energy by replacing the core with a coil or a number of coils. The core or inner coils should only protrude half way into the primary coils. You can use the inner coils to power the device according to the patent. Now that would be something to see.
I've tested this inner coil advice and it works. I replaced the core of a solenoid with a coil and it produced electricity.
Looking forward to your results.
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:57 AM
interdesign21 interdesign21 is offline
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@a.king21

I read your observations
Remember that in my set up I have one central coil (primary) and two induced coils, one at each side. In the Figuera 1908 setup, it is inverse, the two at the ends are the inducing, and the one at center is the induced, because its configuration is designed to grow and decrease the flux alternatively at both ends of the device.
The concept in my exploration, is sightly different, based in the cyclical change of resistance at the input, and using both sides of the inducing or primary coil.

One coil inside the other replacing the core, would be a kind of air core transformer. . . interesting

cheers
Alvaro
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  #523 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2013, 10:19 AM
a.king21 a.king21 is offline
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I didn't look at your schematic initially, just the photo of your build.
Well it's certainly interesting.
It's obvious by following the patents that Figuera did not disclose everything. Maybe your version is closer to the mark.
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  #524 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2013, 12:55 PM
john_g john_g is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by interdesign21 View Post
Hello everybody
Some hep needed, if anyone is kind to answer.
I do not have means to exactly replicate the patents but I made a setup for experimentation.
Made it with recycled stuff from junk.

Wish I had an oscope, because the first measurements are unreliable (and crazy)
Based in a 8 segments DC motor commutator run by a small dc motor

The idea was to study if feeding the inductor with a variable DC current, there is Lenz,
or in other words a kind of square pulse over the 0V line. (see the setup layout)
The resistances are fixed at the back of commutator in a sequence: Low-High-Low-High in one cycle.(low=2 Ohm.)

The motor and the central inductor L3 are powered with different power supplies.
The carbon brushes are a bit narrower than comm. segments.

I have tested with 100, 1K, 10K, 100K resistances
The voltage at the electrolytic cap goes crazy (always same inductive load) I guess that due to different freq.from standard)
The Amps at input says 200mA at 12V (at R=10K)

From R=1K lots of sparks at comm. and the neon lits red, with 100K looots of sparks and I can see purple light.
A non gutted CFL parallel to the neon, flashes.
With a resistive load everything goes down.

My questions for the experts (Mr. John Stone ? ):

- does the neon lights because of the sparks or from L3 BEMF ?
- Is there a simple way to stabilize the V at output ?
- Is the sharp change of R causing a collapse bellow 0Volts in L3 and therefore a kick back ?
-Is the current induced in L1.L2 AC (at a freq. related to RPM) or type triangular -saw tooth? (theoretically)


in the meantime I am showing this, as it may be of inspiration for someone

cheers
Alvaro
Hi Alvaro

Good setup, and just a thought - I would be tempted to remove the neon and D2 D3 and replace with a small cap, and also remove C1, and see what that does to the output. You could do a timing run over so many second to compare before and after.

Regards

John

Last edited by john_g : 09-16-2013 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:11 PM
interdesign21 interdesign21 is offline
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thanks for the suggestion John
Note that my doubts originate in the way the diodes D2 andD3 are oriented, contrary to direction of theoretic current flow
It reminds me the same as seen in the Ufopolitics boost converter
nevertheless I`ll try with a cap (non polarized?)
cheers
Alvaro
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Old 09-16-2013, 02:15 PM
john_g john_g is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by interdesign21 View Post
thanks for the suggestion John
Note that my doubts originate in the way the diodes D2 andD3 are oriented, contrary to direction of theoretic current flow
It reminds me the same as seen in the Ufopolitics boost converter
nevertheless I`ll try with a cap (non polarized?)
cheers
Alvaro
Hi Alvaro
Yes a non polarized small cap. I think the diodes were correct, the inductor becomes the source on discharge. Re the timing I was thinking about timing filling up the output cap, so you could see if there was any difference, so no load attached.

Regards

John
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Old 09-16-2013, 06:33 PM
hanon1492 hanon1492 is offline
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Hi all,

I have done some testing with a similar winding to the one posted for the 1902 patent No. 30378. As you can see I did not get any output result ( 0 volts) . The output I got with irregular (manual) pulses were a measurement error dued to the voltmeter. But with AC (and also tested with intermittent DC current) I did get 0 volts. I first tested with two identical coils and later I tested with different coils (internal coil:150 turns, copper wire of 0.4 mm diameter; external coil: 900 turns, copper wire 0.4 mm diameter)

Video 1

Video 2

I think that in this case the equation of the induction over a wire of length "l" has to be applied. Changing the magnetic field over a static wire is the same as having a static B-field and move the wire closer and farer from the electromagnet sequentialy. In this case we can not apply the Faraday Law for the induction over a coil perpendicular to the B-field but the equation of the induction of a moving wire at speed "v":

E = l·B·v·sin (alpha) , being alpha the angle between the B-field and the velocity v

In the case of patent 30378 (motionless generator) the wire under a oscilatory B-field can be assimilated to move the wire in parallel to a static B-field so the angle is sin(alpha) = sin (0º) = 0, and then the induced voltage is null. In case of the patent 30376 (where the winding is wound around a drum which rotates around some electromagnets in the center) the wire is moving at right angle of the B-field, so sin(alpha) = sin(90º) = 1 . Therefore I think that this winding proposal is fine for this patent with the moving coil (patent 30376), but it won´t work for the motionless generator (patent 30378).



In 1902 Figuera patented two different devices but maybe he just built one of them. I don´t know if he built both or he just built one and the other was a theoretical proposal. In the 1902 newspaper clippings is written that the Figuera device "consisted of a generator, a motor and a kind of governor or regulator". This description matches much better with the requirements for the the implementention of patent 30376 where a motor is needed to rotate the moving coil.

One detail about patent 30378: reading the text it seems to indicate that all the electromagnets are conected to the same inducer signal. But reading carefully: " this generator whose form and arrangement are shown in the attached drawings, warning that, in them, and for clarity are sketched only eight electromagnets, or two sets of four excitatory electromagnets in each, ..." Why did Figuera remark that it was arranged in two sets of electromagnets? ...

Last edited by hanon1492 : 09-17-2013 at 10:49 PM.
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  #528 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2013, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanon1492 View Post
...
One detail about patent 30378: reading the text seems to indicate that all the electromagnets are conected to the same inducer signal. But reading carefully: " this generator whose form and arrangement are shown in the attached drawings, warning that, in them, and for clarity are sketched only eight electromagnets, or two sets of four excitatory electromagnets in each, ..." Why did Figuera remark that it was arranged in two sets of electromagnets? ...
Maybe because there is one set inner electromagnets and one set outer ones. They talk about before.

Conclusion for MEG: Either it is a hoax / error or we neeed a new idea for winding.
The magic seems to be in the magnetic field being a vortex. (outside my imagination just now) Dealing with this nature Howard Johnson built a magentic gate where the magent was attracted when entering and repelled when leaving.
Obviously the field is colinear in the gap "c" where the induced coil lives somehow - but the field of the induced coil whirls in a vortex as reaction from current flowing.

Can anybody get a clue from this idea? It must be a stange winding scheme (strange for our educated mind) that works but is hidden.
JS

Last edited by JohnStone : 09-16-2013 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:56 PM
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lets see ....

Well yes I did have a go at explaining before but I got a little bogged down perhaps as I failed so miserably before I could try another way to crack the nut and see if I can bring some thoughts to the system.
The major common component with the 3BGS and this system (and many others) is the humble Lead acid battery and If you don’t mind I'll start there and work outwards. It is a fact although not very well Known that lead acid batteries have a resonant point indeed such testing as I have done shows that there are recurring resonant points I have managed to track these up to 20 MHz which is the limits of my instruments.
This resonance aspect is used over and over again in various chargers rejuvenaters and “free energy machines of all and every description.
Here is a typical example of a rejuvenater

Lead acid battery maximiser


you will see that a whole area of the battery can be made resonant with very little energy and batteries charged very quickly.. although perhaps charged isn’t the correct term here “rejuvenated “ is perhaps more suited.
If I was trying to explain this as a particle physicist or even in purely electrical terms I would do it differently however the event is the same and so for ease I'll do it this way .. first I would like you to watch singing coach Jamie Vendura and his antics with crystal glass.

A MythBuster's Glass Shattering Montage - YouTube

Please be aware that the human voice is a classic linear wave a little thought on the operation of a loud speaker will confirm this for you. Also as you have just heard its essential that the the glass is actually crystal … nothing else works. That of course begs the question how does crystal differ from any other glass? Here's a copy and paste which rather explains the difference

Glass is an amorphous solid that is created without any type of regular periodic bonding.

Crystal is a structured lattice of atoms or molecules that forms a regular periodic bonding pattern.


I have pasted that from this web page
What's the difference between GLASS and CRYSTAL? - Yahoo! Answers

now consider this … what if all the glasses had exactly the same resonant point and Jamie could hit that point with perfection would they all break instantly at the same time using only a tiny amount of energy ? To produce that catastrophic event with classical physics however would take considerable energy. Although we are considering a battery of course the same thing occurs sulphation .. all be it at a microscopic level, in fact a heavily sulphated battery is said to be "crystallised" .. just like the glass. whichever system you consider the battery must rejuvenate faster than you can discharge that’s just pure nous. And if you do that well of course you are COP+1.
So consider the electrical maths of a lead Acid battery do you buy a battery in Kw/ hrs ?
Certainly not … it doesn't apply, Maxwell determined the units and the measure and its Amp /hours the only power involved here is in your own minds and imagination.
So the next consideration is how can you induce a very large current through the battery whilst using little or no power … the answer I surmise is of course series resonance since Power = VI cos θ you can arrange things with series resonance such that you have very large current flow into a resonant battery whilst using vitually no real power. If not why not? You have obliged all the laws. view it as shattering crysal if you want ... Its the same event
Much the same situation applies in theory to the magnetic circuit the flux produced is a product of NI there is no obigitary power use in those terms. only turns and current.assuming a decent soft magnetic material the only real loss being directly proportional to the area under the BH curve.
The fact that solid Iron bar had been used makes it a little difficult to use a horse shoe magnet system but in theory there is no reason why not. If you did so you would effectively be looking at a type of Leedskalnin PMH that of course has long been a mystery itself but really all that needs to be kept in mind is the Leedskalnin PMH can be dynamic as shown here

Video 1 - YouTube

There is much in magnetics and indeed electricity that is still a mystery to us John but you certainly made the right purchase with your three phase transformers if you wish to uncover quite a lot of it... I couldn’t find them on ebay still here's the over unity experiments video's and course material regarding ferro resonant magnetics and a static transverter using a 3 phase transformer such as you have acquired ..
I'm actually posting the second video of the course here John so you can see the three phase transformer pressed into service and flying COP +1.


TV-part II - YouTube

The magnetic matching which Dan refers to here having little impact on the secondary is really the same state you are searching for regarding Clemente Figuera's machine. That seperatrion of the cores is rather akin to an opto coupler or buffer amp in electronics. I further add here that you are tuning to series resonance and that of course is indicative of the linear wave which is not supposed to exist. But of course we all know it does.
So just to re- cap IMHO you are principally designing to the lead acid battery and its resonant cascade . Every battery is different and the resonant point obviously alters with load (hence the adjustable winding)
quite a lot of this will become apparent regarding the magnetics and engineering of principles the transverter John. It seems most of the hard work that dedicated group did is being rapidly erased from the www still here's a copy of the first two lecturers .. basic and advanced and a link to some more of the relevant video's for you

http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b5/RE-OU-v6.1.pdf

and the rather more advanced

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...KADh-8CmMwueIg

It is when these guys started looping the system that all the murder's burning and intimidation started John as is out lined here.

Rotoverter Technology was OU before ORBO one.

There is a lot more video and research work that has survived regarding this branch of work
here

TransVerter / Part 1 - YouTube

Sorry if I have drifted off topic a little couldn't help it when I saw Johns transformer . So to recap IMHO you are building principally to the resonance ladder of the battery if you haven’t done that Its a pointless exercise.
The battery actually rings like a bell I believe up to extremely high frequencies probably up into the very high frequencies pointed out by Marcus Reid here.

Marcus Reid Crystal Converter Battery - Casimir Effect - Part 1 - YouTube

however here's a basic map of the resonant battery circuit

http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b5/battery resonance.pdf

Here are some magnetic videos which also in my opinion pertain and you may well find them interesting any way

MAGNETIC VORTEX SPIN DISCOVERY, Sept 2011(Uploading due to his Channel being taken off) - YouTube

Experiment on the Linear Increase in Efficiency with Multiple Moving Magnets over Pulsed Inductors - YouTube

I hope I have managed to inject something here to start the experimental juices going again and am not to far off target if not I’ve certainly mapped out some overtime for Johns new transformers I suspect.
Best wishes Duncan

Last edited by Duncan : 09-18-2013 at 06:58 AM.
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  #530 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2013, 06:46 AM
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Duncan Duncan is offline
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Just a little on the magnetics ...

The magnetics …. from the experimental work I have been doing on the 3BGS system although many disagree … I long ago cane to the conclusion that this resonant state and of course its electromagnetic counterpart was caused by forward and reflected waves in that particular system .. in much the same manner as a antenna feeder with a poor standing wave ratio.
To use the analogy of crystal as I have done above and keeping in mind the lead acid battery “rings like a bell” unfortunately with that particular system I feel we rather find ourself s ringing the bell but effectively chipping a bit off it each time . I have altered my direction now to compensate but I am finding it very difficult to map the changing resonant point.
Anyway I digress … The magnetic exchange in the CF machines is IMHO absolutely nothing to do with power generation although that may seem to be the case. To move up the ladder a single rung I could say the battery is the principle source of energy .. but that’s not really true either. All energy is essentially free and all around us Tom Bearden points it out well in this short clip I include for you

the stupidest circuit - YouTube

“The law of continuity of energy” is maintained when the energy existent at one time disappears but reappears at another time. Oliver Heaviside

The state of our universe is analogue and musical but I only just start to grasp and engineer that myself and am certainly not ready to try any sort of explanation .
Still to keep it simple from an purely engineering standpoint there is nothing you cannot adjust and work into an operational unit is there ?
You control the physical size of the battery and the speed of the motor and hence the resonant points.
You have control of the number turns and the the size of the wire and everything pertaining to the resonant and ferro resonant magnetic circuit .
The real purpose of the magnetic circuit starts to become clear it is to impact the battery with the correct frequency whilst reflecting little or nothing back to the source . This too is totally in your control you can pick the mu of the material the number of turns the area of the core the size of the wire indeed all the parameters are totally in your hands.
In neither equation (battery charging) or (magnetic flux density) is power a first order derivative … so engineer away from any use of power. Not quite zero power consumption .. but very very close.
The secret of free power as Hector says quite clearly in the papers I’ve loaded for you is Resonance … Resonance and yet more Resonance .. In this case electrical resonance w.r.t the two outside windings (which are electrically at least) seen as one despite being wound on different cores and in different directions all the machine sees is two inductors in series effectively .. one inductor
so of course it needs to be engineered again to be series resonant which as you have seen Dan demonstrate brings ferro magnetic resonance into play … you want all that huge amount of effect whilst using little or no power and as you can now see (I hope) every step of the process is engineer - able and a viable proposition .. although I never did suggest its a walk in the park.
however Johns a great engineer I've rubbed shoulders with him before … If anyone can ...
Particularly with UFO in the background he seems a whiz on magnetic circuits.
I think you'll find the the need for armature action will become a lot clearer when erfinder releases the kit that separates emf from bemf . (wont that throw the cat amongst the pidgins) And although I hate to argue with the patent I would suggest that a definite break between commutator segments is called for .. anyway I must go and build a little more of my own variation materials have arrived and I have daylight !
Again Best wishes Duncan
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:57 PM
hanon1492 hanon1492 is offline
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Hi all,

I have updated my post #439 to include some corrections in the circuit designed by Patrick Kelly to generate the two unphased signals required in 1908 patent. It has a small mistake that he will shortly update in his ebook Chapter 3. Here it is the link to that post:

Link to post #439 with the circuit to generate two unphased signals

Regards
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Old 09-25-2013, 07:31 AM
hanon1492 hanon1492 is offline
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Hi all,

I attach here a patent about an overunity transformer filed by Carlos Subieta Garron (US3368141). If you read it you could see that he is looking for the same effect as the 1908 Figuera´s patent. Also I send two videos that you could find useful to understand the patent.

Patent US3368141 in pdf

Video 1

Video 2



Carlos Subieta Garron literally writes in his patent: "The assembly will not work as an annular magnet, there should be a small air gap between the core member and the shoe poles" (please note the attached drawing with the air gap !!). This idea agrees completely with Wonju´s interpretation of the 1908 Figuera generator: An small air gap used between primary and secondary to "re-route" the magnetic field toward the secondary coil which is decreasing in magnetization, and thus avoid the Lenz effect into the primary inducer coil.

Please post your comments about this patent.

Regards

Last edited by hanon1492 : 09-25-2013 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:15 PM
hanon1492 hanon1492 is offline
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Air gap function

I have been looking for another patent that I saw time ago with an air gap to achieve overunity in a MEG. I have found some references. It seems that the "air gap" has a clear function to get a minimization of the Lenz Effect over the inducer coils. Just for the record these are the overunity references to air gaps in transformers:

A truly overunity transformer

Curious OU transformer

Aspden energy anomaly with air gap

Improvement over Thane Heins transformer adding an air gap

Flynn patent US6246561 (see figures 1 to 16)

We should give a greater importance to the air gaps as elements to minimize the Lenz Effect by redirecting the induced magnetic flux along others paths different than the inducer coil.



Regards

Last edited by hanon1492 : 09-26-2013 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:23 PM
Cadman Cadman is offline
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Hi everyone,

I hope I am not distracting the thread here. I thought I would share some interesting (to me) findings with my toy 1908 setup.

Sorry, it's a long story.

I replaced my 3 tiny .07 ohm coils with some bigger 0.15 ohm coils (from 120vac ice-cube relays) in an attempt to produce more volts and current. A new slip-fit core was made from mild hot-roll steel and this one also extends half-way into the two outer coils. Also found a used 300 watt 12vdc PC power supply and ran it through a fwbr to power the coils with, but as it turns out this power supply only produces 40ma current @ 10.8vdc rectified. I am still using the same arduino, 9vdc bat for the ardino, and circuit layout as before, and I use two different meters for all measurements.

The first run only produced a disappointing 1.8vac from the center coil. I did not know the PC power supply was defective at that time so I started checking for blown circuit components, and found no problem. Then I pulled the power wires from the PS to see what the arduino pulses were sending to the circuit. Checking between the arduino outputs and board ground showed 2.6v. Check from each outer coil wire to the board ground showed 0.6v. Then I reconnected the PS and checked each outer coil wire to board and found 18.8vac on 3 of them and 7.9vac on the fourth. These are supposed to be the inducing coils, not the induced. So I thought it was probably back emf.

I disconnected the PS, rechecked the readings and found the same original volts, 2.6 and 0.6 volts. Checked the rectified PS and found the 10.8vdc. Rechecked every component twice just to be sure.

Reconnected the PS and the outer coils had 19.6vac on 3 wires. 0.8vac more, ignoring the fourth wire. While pondering this I left the rig running for about 10 minutes then turned everything off to save the 9 volt battery and disconnected the PS from the board.

This is where it got interesting. A few minutes later I turned it back on. Checking the outer coil wires again, they were now up to 20.8vac with the 4th at 17.2vac. Even higher than last time. Then I went to disconnect the PS and discovered that I forgot to connect it to the board! Everything was now running only from the pulsed 2.6vdc (5vdc max) from the arduino, the exact same setup that originally produced 0.6 volts at the outer coils.

Then I hooked + & - wires from the breadboard where the outer coils were connected and ran it through a fwbr. This run showed 20.8vdc after the fwbr, and 20.8vac at the +/- breadboard connection before the fwbr. That in itself is odd because there is supposed to be a 1.5 volt loss through the fwbr. Once again the PS was not connected.

Just for fun I took out the fwbr and hooked the +/- wires to a 2200uf 25v non-polarized cap. It charges the cap to over 13 volts in a few minutes, and will keep slowly climbing, while still running without the PS.

Why did this setup suddenly produce over 20 volts from the outer coils without the PS when at first it would only show 0.6vac? Did letting it run that one time for 10 minutes do something to the core or coils?

Regards
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  #535 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2013, 11:32 PM
a.king21 a.king21 is offline
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Cadman -Interesting:
It could be that you have discovered a new phenomenon, namely inductor conditioning.
We know that repeated pulsing of an electrolytic capacitor gives a temporary electret effect. i myself have seen this and know a lot about it.

I notice you have a magnetizeable core. You could have achieved a Searle effect.
The experiment would have to be repeatable of course.
Good luck.

PS You could try changing the core, and see if it is indeed a magnetic effect.
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Old 10-06-2013, 12:40 PM
hanon1492 hanon1492 is offline
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Possible winding for patent No. 30378

Hi all,

I have been thinking about possible winding schemes for patent 30378 (motionless generator, year 1902). I don´t know if I could be right or not, but I have realized a feature which could minimize the Lenz effect over the inducer coils (I think).

The concept is described in the attached picture below. This winding is based on having 2 induced magnetic fields which flow in opposite directions along each inducer coil. If you see the picture you can note than in each inducer coil there are two induced magnetic fields (one created by that induced coil and one created by the next induced coil). These two induced magnetic field are in oppositon to each other. Therefore the decrease in induced coil strength as consequence of the first induced field is compensated by the increase in that coil strength done by the second magnetic field. Thus, a minimization of the Lenz effect in each inducer coil could be obtained.

Could these proposal be right? Please comment. (Note: Remember that there was another proposal done by another user for this patent winding that you can find here: Link )

Regards


Last edited by hanon1492 : 10-06-2013 at 07:54 PM.
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  #537 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2013, 04:00 PM
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Hrothgar Hrothgar is offline
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Let Neo Handle It

just space the feed gap with a small K&J Magnetics - Products wrapped in tape for instance, it should act like a magnetic version of a diode .
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  #538 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2013, 09:53 PM
hanon1492 hanon1492 is offline
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Hi all,

About the concept that I referred in my last post to achieve two induced magnetic flows in opposition (which cancel each other) I have found some links where this concept is applied. It is called the "F-machine" or "F-Transformer" and it resembles slightly to the Gramme machine:

Link 1

As you could note in the next link this device also needs an air gap to avoid the return of the induced field into the primary coil:

Link 2



I have posted these links here in order to discuss if this concept can be applied to Figuera´s patents. Please post your comments.

My question is:

Could be right to try to compensate opposite induced magnetic fields in the 1902 patent as shown in my previous winding proposal?

Regards

Last edited by hanon1492 : 10-09-2013 at 09:56 PM.
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  #539 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2013, 06:20 AM
marxist marxist is offline
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I would like to reaffirm the concept I presented in my older post Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera
and to illustrate it with the attached image.

The image is based on a patent drawing provided by hanon in Reply #216 here:
Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE

According to this drawing each "coil-and-core assembly" of a Figuera transformer must be aligned with the earth magnetic field.

When the current in two primaries is at maximum, they are energized. Consequently the core of this assembly is polarized in opposition to the earth magnetic field, as depicted on the left side of the attached image.

When the primaries are not energized - when current in the primaries is at minimum as depicted on left side of image - the core's polarization gets reversed by the earth magnetic field.
The electric energy that is output during this reversal is free.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg figuera_northsouth01.jpg (33.9 KB, 43 views)
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  #540 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2013, 08:02 PM
Beamgate Beamgate is offline
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@marxist:

Quote:
When the current in two primaries is at maximum, they are energized.
This statement appears to contrast the intent (at least as I interpret it) of the Patent design (the purpose of the 'switched resistor array' is to induce our modern-day version of a sine wave induction current upon opposing-wound primaries CW/CCW - highest for one, lowest for the other, inverting the flux with each cycle).

Figuera's concept of 'primaryBank-1-high vs primaryBank-2-low' (the intended flux control mechanism) seems to be dismissed with this sudden notion of 'earthly polar alignment'.

Have you had any luck with the patent as-designed?

Note: I'm about to implement (attempt ) an initial single 'stage' version of this transformer (as @Woopy has demonstrated early in this thread) as the output stage of a larger project - once I convert some 'salvaged' silicon-steel E-cores to suitable C-core's for an attempt.

So, before I blow through 6 or more metal scroll-saw blades to attempt this, i'm wondering: why the sudden switch in strategy?

Resonance for All!

Last edited by Beamgate : 10-09-2013 at 03:11 AM. Reason: Figuera name assertion and flux clarification
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