The Extraluminal Transmission Systems of Tesla and Alexanderson by Eric Dollard

The Secret of Tesla's Power Magnification

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  #151 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2012, 03:16 PM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
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Hey G
I knew that would get you goin
Im not saying electrons or a subparticle of an electron doesnt orbit an atom, what Im saying is an atom is a particle with a magnetic and electric field as macro so is the micro.
Im sure electrons can be striped from an atom but we dont need to, the particles that feed the atom feed everthing, we live in a sea of them.

Bearden I think it was said it best we have never created an ounce of energy.

A magnetic field condenses space this creates a low pressure point the aether seeks harmony, balance so a magnetic field is a sink, look at the Z pinch effect.

We just have to stop the aether from reaching balance and siphon off the energy, we're getting close we have to shunt the primary.

just my thoughts
dave
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  #152 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2012, 05:51 PM
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Hi Jay,

That is a deliberate time wasting disinfo hoax and scam.
Those coils have insufficient turns, plus no central core-cap.
There is one winding missing per assembly, and they are fix-spaced too widely apart.

Cheers .......... Graham.
Ah ha... see.. that is the 4th wire I was talking about earlier! Looks like I will be getting my $27 back... LOL.

They did offer an "extended version" of the plan.. that claims to be able to store the energy created.. Im not sure what the purpose of the Central Core-Cap is.. or what it would look like... but could that possibly be its function? Regardless.. that demonstration is impressive and fairly convincing! Could it be that the larger scale is the reason for the wider seperation of the coils? I dunno.. Im just shooting in the dark here I guess.. hoping to make something out of nothing perhaps... haha!
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  #153 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2012, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave45 View Post
Hey G
I knew that would get you goin
Im not saying electrons or a subparticle of an electron doesnt orbit an atom, what Im saying is an atom is a particle with a magnetic and electric field as macro so is the micro.
Im sure electrons can be striped from an atom but we dont need to, the particles that feed the atom feed everthing, we live in a sea of them.

Bearden I think it was said it best we have never created an ounce of energy.

A magnetic field condenses space this creates a low pressure point the aether seeks harmony, balance so a magnetic field is a sink, look at the Z pinch effect.

We just have to stop the aether from reaching balance and siphon off the energy, we're getting close we have to shunt the primary.

just my thoughts
dave
So you imagine we are living in a sea of 'particles' which feed everything.
Yet every atom within all matter is an electromagnetic entity in its own right; it does not need 'feeding' in order to exist.
I recon you have not read *The Evolution of Matter* by LeBon.

Heck we've even got 'scientists' now writing about the newly supposed 'neutrellos' said to act faster than neutrinos upon Beta decay elements. When will 'scientists' stop tying themselves in knots with their disparate imaginings ?

Okay. How do you propose to stop the aether particles in your imaginary 'sea' (presumably also permeating all magnet space), in order to prevent your aether from maintaining its all permeating balance.

You also write about magnetism as if it too is something especially different. Magnetism and any effects caused by it (including Z pinch) is merely due to the movement of charge, whether that charge movement is macro as with current in a wire current, or electron spin associated with an atom, or with ionic currents as in a plasma.
Magnets are alignments of electron spin fields around the domain fixed atoms, with most electrons spinning in the same sense.
It is the charge motion/ electron spin which exerts the gravitational like force we call magnetism, and NOT the other way round !

The Hendershot device generates an electromagnetic disturbance at atomic weak-strong force level within the molecular core domains, and simultaneously transduces energy released through inducing elemental atomic nucleus change.

I have suggested that a Geiger Counter would be useful for examining Hendershot Generator operation, though here it is the older type detection equipment I am thinking of, for modern digital types do not work properly in the vicinty of high electromagnetic field strengths and might even be destroyed by same.

Cheers ............. Graham.
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  #154 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2012, 08:44 AM
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Further to my last paragraph, I think both a rugged old analogue civil/ military meter type geiger would be essential for any live running investigations, though with use of a more modern digital alpha/beta/gamma type having pancake sensor built into the rear of the unit to monitor an operating environment long term.
Something like the Inspector+ type as demonstrated here -
Testing Tritium keychain with Inspector Alert - YouTube

Also what I have been describing in this thread is LENR = low energy nuclear reactions, but with me not being a scientist, nor not even wanting to be one, I do not know the scientist's designations. I don't even wish to study for 'scientists' 'qualifications' either, for I cannot respect those who use their 'profession' to suppress knowledge and harm humanity.
Besides, this is not the kind of 'science' that any scientist is going to be granted funds to investigate or commercialise for the benefit of humanity, for there would be no benefit to either the controlling oil barons nor the black hearted militaries.
Two other videos worth watching -
911 Dr Judy Wood Presentation Part 5 - YouTube
Conspiracy Theory S03E02 Death Ray - YouTube

!!!...So do think carefully about sharing detail if you ever become a successful replicator of one of these generators...!!!

Cheers .......... Graham.

Last edited by GSM : 11-24-2012 at 08:49 AM.
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  #155 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2012, 03:50 AM
ChrisW ChrisW is offline
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Finality and Closure

Greetings all,

I just finished reading the page (for the umpteenth time) at RexResearch about Wesley Gary's magnetic devices. Jeez, sometimes it feels like it takes forever to fully absorb a simple concept. Maybe it's just a sign of age. Sigh...

If you take the time to read that whole page SLOWLY and CAREFULLY, it'll hit you like a ton of bricks. Wesley Gary was a full 50 YEARS ahead of Lester Hendershot!

Go read it, then come back here.

Wesley Gary's Magnetic Motor

Remember the device from the first patent, the one with the gear wheel and the coil wound on the end of the lever? The flat core of the coil is positioned on what Gary called the "neutral line," a distinct point at which the iron bar is NOT influenced (i.e., polarized) by the magnet. A slight downward movement of the lever then moves the core OFF the neutral line and causes the immediate polarization of the bar, WHICH ALSO INDUCES A CURRENT IN THE COIL. A spring beneath the lever prevents the bar from contacting the magnet (thereby avoiding becoming "stuck" to it), forcing it back up to the neutral line.

THIS IS EXACTLY how the "buzzer" works in Hendershot's Mark III. Hilton alludes that the two coils were physically attached to the bar, and that a spring adjustment was used to distance the assembly from the magnet. At a particular point, when the bar becomes polarized by the magnet, a current is generated. This current then makes its way through the oscillatory circuitry and returns through the two coils on the iron bar, generating a magnetic field, which causes attraction to the magnet, and the whole cycle starts all over again.

The Gary text refers to the fact that Gary was able to get a spark off of his vibrating coil. A SPARK!? That indicates a pretty high voltage! Imagine such a voltage coursing its way through the Hendershot oscillator, becoming further amplified by resonance, having enough energy to not only make its way through the load, but to return to the vibrating coils and receive another "kick" -- again and again and again. No wonder Hendershot said that his coils often burned up.

Whether or not Hendershot was aware of Gary's work we will likely never know. With his knowledge of magnetics, however, it is reasonably certain that Hendershot knew that a "neutral" point existed, a point at which an iron bar would not be polarized by the magnet, and that a polarity flip occurs on both sides of that boundary.

So, at last, the "Hendershot Mystery" is solved. The final piece of the puzzle has been fit into the eighty five year old jigsaw puzzle. The remaining details of implementation and replication are left to those "skilled in the art," as they say in Patentville.

Sigh. Somebody please wipe me up from the floor. I feel liked an overcooked noodle.

Cheers, all.
Chris
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  #156 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2012, 07:53 AM
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Hi Chris,

I tried to replicate Wesley Gary's magnetic oscillator some time ago using horseshoe magnets and keepers configured as he illustrated; but no luck. Also the forces in the 'neutral' region are nothing like the force potentials closer to magnet poles, and a back-EMF spark is not quite the same as constant power generation.

Lester however did use very powerful magnets in his 'buzzers', and if I recall correctly Wesley Gary had parallel layered several flat section horseshoes in order to drive a small motor.

Yes Chris, we need to study - and research - the art of magnetic field oscillation and transduction, for this was at the heart of devices constructed by both gentlemen. Notice how in figure 5 of your link that Wesley had wound the armature in the neutral zone, exactly where Lester fifty years later had aligned his buzzer coils, and both had used the term 'magnetic motor', where 'generator' might have been a better description.

"Hendershot Fuelless Generator" - Wesley W. Gary's Neutral Zone - YouTube

Patent US190206 - IMPROVEMENT IN ELECTRO-MAGNETIC - Google Patents

Cheers .......... Graham.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf GARY80739563.pdf (120.6 KB, 98 views)

Last edited by GSM : 11-27-2012 at 08:30 AM.
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  #157 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2012, 12:10 PM
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Espacenet - Bibliographic data

Espacenet - Bibliographic data
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  #159 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2012, 05:11 PM
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Wiegand wire very interesting
Yes Wings, Wiegand wire is like the Schmidtt trigger of magnetic transduction, and it would likely be most useful with this technology.

I have been wondering why it was that I could not get my replication of Wesley Gary's balanced Fig.2 horseshoe magnet 'neutral zone' mechanical oscillator running. I could manually energise it to run for one or two cycles, but not continuously.

This got me to thinking about the academically accepted 'neutral zone' that exists axially and centrally between opposing same polarity magnet poles, for actually this is the ONLY neutral zone that does exist.
In other words - horseshoe magnets do NOT have any neutral zone at some distance from their polar ends, though one could indeed arise between two horseshoe magnets placed in oppositional alignment.

Indeed, there is not any point at which a soft iron end keeper is not attracted if it is say suspended by string.

Then I got to thinking about the supposed magnetic field lines so often drawn around magnets, and the manner in which these are a purely imaginary, although an instructed concept and belief based understanding imposed by our authoritarian 'education' establishments.

This is the real Bs Dave !

I get so fed up of seeing people draw magnetic fields around magnets as if these exist and as if the lines are those of an acting magnetic force.
They are not.

Just as there is no such thing as a propagating wave of EM radiation, nor any transverse voltage or magnetic component, so there is not any line of unitary or continuous field between magnetic polar differentials either;
that is until -
something exists or is placed there to 'conduct' alignment, or trans-indicate, or transduce same !!!!!

Iron filings line up due to internal electron quantising and orbit spin effects within molecular domains as they become serially magnetised.
Ditto, the green magnet viewing film containing colloidal nickel/ferromagnetic particles within which line up to indicate any magetic pole.
It is electron/ atomic alignments within matter which concerntrate and direct magnetic paths thus establishing relative field strengths and gradients.

Thus we can show that at no point in front of the poles of a horseshoe magnet is there any neutral zone.

However, what we can show, is that when a magnetisable medium is placed between the poles of a horseshoe magnet that the field will be concentrated through that medium and establishing the shortest path possible, as with a keeper.

So what was it that Wesley described as being his neutral zone - was it not the composite field from both magnet and keeper acting upon a wire nail at the keeper ends ?

He was informing us that there is a change in the direction of field acting upon a nail at the *keeper ends*, where indeed the spatial gradient can loop around the keeper and away from the magnet as illustrated by iron filings.
Wesley Grey's neutral zone and transient induction field reversal was related to the keeper or soft iron armature, and NOT the magnet itself !!!!!

Thus it occurs to me that this effect might be enhanced by cutting the keeper or armature through at half way between the poles, or using two keepers end to end with paper gap to assist any field reversal occuring within the keeper at some distance from the horseshoe poles, for we cannot know exactly what magnetic circuitry Mr Gary might have concealed inside any non-magnetic copper foil sheath mentioned in the texts.

Every photograph of a Hendershot generator has shown inadequate resolution in relation to 'buzzer' imagery, and yet, as you say Chris, this really must be the core of all Hendershot designs, if not the only source of energy.

Cheers ........... Graham.

Last edited by GSM : 11-30-2012 at 07:29 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #160 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:42 AM
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What occurs to me in relation to the similar Gary and Hendershot designs is that both had thin armatures oscillating through *the armature's* narrow neutral zone with respect to the magnet, and that the amplitude of resonance was externally controlled by springs, such that an efficient return of mechanically transduced magnet field energy was out of phase with a neutral zone field collapse within the armature, the transient pulse of which was electrically transduced via an associated coil overwind.
In the Gary design the loading was not continuous, but switched.
In all of the the Hendershot variations the loading was phase changed by reactive capacitor/ coil tuning.

Hence the use of an electromechanical buzzer to energise either a Gary or Hendershot type arrangement made sense once the neutral zone for any armature had been established.
Would the fixation of an armature within its particular neutral zone for any magnet, lead to '+' and '-' pulsing were its field to be 'disturbed' either by another magnet as in Wesley's Fig.4, or secondary magnetic core plus alternation through Hendershot's output coils in the Mk1-2 ?

Clearly the output of a Hendershot generator was pulsed, and thus not suitable for directly empowering all domestic equipment normally supplied by the electric mains we have for so long had; though it would have been ideal for driving synchronous motors.

Cheers .......... Graham.

Last edited by GSM : 11-30-2012 at 07:28 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #161 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 02:32 PM
ChrisW ChrisW is offline
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Levers and armatures

Greetings, Graham...

Three days ago, some idiot with the title "Locator" instructed someone operating a backhoe to "dig here," right through a fiber optic cable and a 900-pair phone cable, knocking out phone and Internet service to half the county. Brilliant. Thus my absence this week.

Your analysis in the previous post is spot-on. Now in your mind's eye, visualize that sinusoid-ish wave passing through all of Hendershot's various coils and ultimately returning to the point of origin. If the wave returns at the right TIME, it induces a small magnetic field in the armature's coil, pulling the armature out of the neutral line, and the whole process starts over again WITH A SLIGHTLY BIGGER WAVE.

The key word is PHASE. Everything in Hendershot is about PHASE.

Did you mean GRAY or GARY? Gray is entirely different, though nonetheless brilliant.

(in response from two posts ago, saved to file just after the modem's DSL light extinguished due to the backhoe incident...)

In the video you linked to, Morpher had his magnet WAAAY too far away from the bar and solenoids, defeating the entire purpose of the experiment, thus it was doomed to failure ab initio.

Gary makes it abundantly clear that the movement required can be as little as 1/50th of an inch. Let's convert that decimal: .020" -- twenty THOUSANDTHS of an inch. That kind of measurement and positioning requires a high degree of PRECISION. Clearly, rubber bands are inadequate. A thumbscrew with 56 threads per inch is just BARELY adequate, providing a movement of .017" per turn. Morpher also didn't show in the video if he went to the trouble of actually FINDING the neutral line with a small nail, which would either cling to or fall off the metal bar upon finding or crossing the neutral line. Finally, let us not forget that today's ceramic magnets are FAR stronger than anything available in 1877 or even 1927. Thus, that neutral line will be in a different location using modern magnets.

Gary's coil shown in the patent moved both above and below the neutral line, thus creating true AC, which was then mechanically rectified via commutation to produce pulsed DC. Read the patent again, it's all in there. Thus, back EMF was really not an element, per se.

I would at first approach the endeavor as Gary did, placing the bar ABOVE the magnet legs, as opposed to directly in front of poles as Hendershot did.

I would reiterate that PRECISION is the name of the game.

(update, back to the present...)

I have successfully located the neutral line as described by Gary, using his technique to locate it. In my case, it's about 3/16ths of an inch above the magnet legs. I produced a horseshoe-type of magnet using a rather large ferrite U with two 1" round ceramic magnets affixed to each leg. I think the next logical step will be to fabricate an armature and lever, the prior shall be cut to permit a coil to be wrapped upon it. Getting it balanced will be the tricky part.

In answer to your question, yes, the armature and lever COULD be disturbed by another magnet, an ELECTROmagnet being the optimal choice. You see where this going...

Cheers, mate.
Chris
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  #162 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 05:46 PM
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ChrisW

If you could show us the method of finding neutral line in video it would be very helpful I guess... Did you saw Don Smith motor design with two neodymium magnets and a metalic disc rotating between them ? I'm quite sure this is using neutral line also
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  #163 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:14 PM
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Hi Chris,

Always good to hear from you.
Heck - I have written both Gray and Grey whilst all along I meant Gary.
Sorry folks, and especially sorry to Wesley's memory too - I have just corrected my posts.
(It is a well know fact that word meaning can be retained if first and last letters are correct, but mddile oens are mudledd. Also sometimes a writer reads mistakes as if correct because s/he remembers back to what they thought they were writing, and this masks uncorrected errors when checkning.)

Sounds like the 'Locator' near you made an expensive mistake.
Similar happened here, yellow circle with centre cross on footpath right outside our house for a new phone pole. I told the 'Locator' his mark was exactly where a streetlight used to be, and that electric cables from our local substation were down there too.
I was told I should not concern myself; but I knew what was inevitable.
Couple of days later the giant auger machine arrived, there was a big bang, our's and alternate houses for one and a half streets lost power. An emergency repair was made by linking to a different substation in the opposte direction; it rained heavy; the hole filled with water; there was another big bang and even more people were off. So 10 metres of footpath fully excavated, plus a 2metre square in our neighbour's front garden to effect repair.
Then a different telecom 'Locator' turned up and decided they did not need a new pole there after-all !

Regarding the Mk3 designs - there is no way that the fine enamelled copper wire on a 110Vac buzzer winding could empower a 100W incandescent lamp (~1 amp).
Ditto with the Mk1-2 neutral line oscillator circuit assembly within the basket weave coils. Hendershot must have had similar secondary collapsing fields in the Mk1-2 output circuits, again by using magnets concealed somewhere ?

Back-EMF from a core/ winding is the sudden return to neutral of magnetic field aligned electron spin orbits. This is what happens within the Gary and Hendershot armatures, and the field collapse pulse energises the coiled overwind. It is the magnetic equivalent of slowly charging a capacitor dielectric and then suddenly discharging it, only here the charge comes from the magnetic field induced by permanently aligned electron spin orbits within the magnet, and mechanical armature oscillation through the neutral zone provides a necessary alternation from an unipolar source.

It might even arise that initial neutral zone vibration investigations could easily illuminate back-to-back oppositely connected LEDs ! Also, with such small amount of vibrational movement being necessary does the coil overwind need to move as well - maybe the armature could move within a coil having +/-1/50th inch internal air gap ?

Yes I think Morpher was more studying buzzer vibration than the neutral zone characteristics, where much greater precision is essential.

Chris, in order to answer Boguslaw; does a miniature magnetic (field tracing) compass go through a sudden direction reversal if set upon a keeper or armature as it is moved through the neutral zone ?

Cheers ........... Graham.
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  #164 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
ChrisW

If you could show us the method of finding neutral line in video it would be very helpful I guess... Did you saw Don Smith motor design with two neodymium magnets and a metalic disc rotating between them ? I'm quite sure this is using neutral line also
I have not seen that, but I wonder would that not prove that magnets are indeed the fixed encapsulation of aligned spinning electron orbits ?
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  #165 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 03:26 AM
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Levers and armatures, continued...

Greetings, Graham...

Many thanks for clearing up the confusion of Gray, Grey and Gary.

I was hoping your locator story would end with your telling him, "Told you so!"

Okay then, on to the details.

Point 1: the fine wire buzzer. Remember, it's not ONLY the buzzer coil doing the work in the MkIII. He had the two 5:1 transformers plus the two L4s engaged in the process as well. However, having made that point, I fully concur that Lester should have used heavier gauge wire. Using small gauge wires as he did, it stands to reason that he burned up his coils. Hmm -- on the other hand, consider what MIGHT have happened had he actually used heavier gauge wire! It was reported that he got knocked on his arse by a jolt of electricity while working on one of his projects! Things for US to bear in mind as we move forward.

So no, I don't for a moment believe that there were any hidden magnets, nor batteries, etc.

Point 2: on the idea of back EMF, or more precisely and correctly stated, the high voltage spike resulting from the sudden collapse of a magnetic field. I'm not yet at the point where I have a RAPIDLY moving armature, but from manual testing, I observed something more sinusoidal than spikey as I'd originally anticipated. Your sudden capacitive discharge analogy is appropriate, but that's not what I'm seeing, and given that Gary was moving the armature to BOTH sides of the neutral line, he was getting a full polarity reversal, thus more AC-like than pulsed DC. Wow -- how's THAT for a run-on sentence! Shame on me!!

Yes, I would agree that you should be able to light up back-to-back LEDs, but once you see your first flash, I think I'd add at least a little resistance in the circuit to play it safe.

Yes, the coil as shown in Figure 5 is wound ON the armature, which in turn is bolted (screwed, actually) on to the lever. Thus both move simultaneously, along WITH the coil. I don't really like that concept since the entire bloody mass now has to move, but that exactly the way Hendershot did it as well.

On my test version, it seems that something less than 1/8th of an inch of movement is needed, but that's only the first go-'round. I expect to pare that down a bit on the next version. A 50th seems a bit small -- perhaps on a high precision model, that might be feasible.

Point 3: on using a compass. Unfortunately, the compass was swamped by the ceramic magnets. It would seem the only way to know for absolutely certain that a polarity reversal has occurred is to watch the coil output on a scope.

Amazing observation: even a small (3/4" round, 1/4" thick) ceramic magnet will affect a compass from up to TWO FEET away, and a Neo of the same size will affect it from even further away! We're so accustomed to thinking that a magnetic field is entirely localized to a few inches around the magnet. Not so! With that in mind, just think about cell phones and all the rest of the EM noise we bathe in daily!

Boguslaw: if you hold a small finishing nail to the armature while moving BOTH manually toward the magnet (delicate and tricky to perform!), you'll see EXACTLY what Gary described. At first, the nail will cling, then at some very fine point, it will let go. Beyond that point (closer still to the magnet), it will again cling to the iron bar. I can't provide a video at this time, so you'll just have to experiment as I did. Re: The Don Smith device you referred to, NO.

Graham, just remember that the buzzer doesn't provide all the power at once; it repeatedly ADDS a small amount of energy with each pulse/wave through it. The load doesn't "consume" all the energy in the system. It's akin to a huge mass of melting snow. You may see only small droplets near the source, but somewhere down the hill, there's a rapidly running stream. Putting an obstruction in its path won't cause the stream to stop flowing. Larry Rayburn's device utilizes this same principle.

More to come...
Chris
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  #166 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 07:45 AM
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Here is picture of Don Smith device

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/DonSmith/Fig34.jpg
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  #167 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisW View Post

Point 1: the fine wire buzzer. Remember, it's not ONLY the buzzer coil doing all the work in the MkIII. He had the two 5:1 transformers plus the two L4s engaged in the process as well. However, having made that point, I fully concur that Lester should have used heavier gauge wire. Using small gauge wires as he did, it stands to reason that he burned up his coils. Hmm -- on the other hand, consider what MIGHT have happened had he actually used heavier gauge wire! It was reported that he got knocked on his arse by a jolt of electricity while working on one of his projects! Things for US to bear in mind as we move forward.

So no, I don't for a moment believe that there were any hidden magnets, nor batteries, etc.
Chris
His fine wire Mk3 buzzers did not burn up - the cap-core overwinds did, this being where Lester's unique and hard to tune second phase of field activated NMR generation came from.

As I mentioned earlier, I believe the only way Mk1-2 inductors 25+22+19+4 could have been secondary energy generators would have been through oscillation/ energisation of cores 27+23+18 set up with a magnet, where I now add possibly as a secondary energised but otherwise neutral line.
Could Hendershot have had a permanent magnet which he slipped between cores 27 and 23 in order to activate the output stage of his generator, but which he removed for presentation purposes in order to prevent theft of invention ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisW View Post

Yes, the coil as shown in Figure 5 is wound ON the armature, which in turn is bolted (screwed, actually) on to the lever. Thus both move simultaneously, along WITH the coil. I don't really like that concept since the entire bloody mass now has to move, but that exactly the way Hendershot did it as well.
It was only Mark Hendershot who informed us that the buzzer coil cores and armature were all one.
Other reports are that the buzzer worked like a large earphone/ moving armature loudspeaker.
Earlier descriptions would mean there was a tiny gap between buzzer coil cores and armature, also a gap between the armature and magnet poles pieces.

The speed at which any field change or saturation collapse would arise within a core or armature entering a neutral environment would relate to both core material and size/ shape.
Clearly the magnetic armature oscillating through its neutral zone with respect to a magnet would experience non-linear field change with respect to distance from the pole faces. Thus I see the correct position for any compression springs to be on the magnet side of the armature, as Wesley did, and not as Hendershot did with his springs on the opposite side of the armature and away from the magnet which increases the non-linearity of induction with respect to mechanical return force.

Chesationers ............ Graham.

Last edited by GSM : 12-01-2012 at 08:41 AM.
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  #168 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
Here is picture of Don Smith device

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/DonSmith/Fig34.jpg
I'm not sure Boguslaw, but is that not like some other inventor's design, and based upon efficient timed pulsing and field shadow/ shielding by disc layering ?

Cheers ........... Graham.
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  #169 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 03:14 PM
ChrisW ChrisW is offline
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Greetings, Graham...

Quote:
As I mentioned earlier, I believe the only way Mk1-2 inductors 25+22+19+4 could have been secondary energy generators would have been through oscillation/ energisation of cores 27+23+18 set up with a magnet, where I now add possibly as a secondary energised but otherwise neutral line. Could Hendershot have had a permanent magnet which he slipped between cores 27 and 23 in order to activate the output stage of his generator, but which he removed for presentation purposes in order to prevent theft of invention ?
Well, I suppose it's POSSIBLE, but here's why I doubt it. If you look carefully at the Utility Engines section in the Hilton text, where the compass mechanism is described, each of the four "arms" contains a magnet with two coils over it. When a current flows through those two coils, it will either enhance the magnet's field or reduce (or cancel) it. That's all that's needed to create motion (e.g., the motor concept). That same concept appears in the Mark I as coil 6 and magnet 7.

I wish the Utility Engines page reproductions were a bit cleaner and clearer. You might want to give that section a second look, as there's more there than first meets the eye. Lester said it wasn't his design, but that it was "pretty damn close."

Quote:
Other reports are that the buzzer worked like a large earphone/ moving armature loudspeaker.
That idea has occurred to me more than a time or two. It's certainly an applicable mechanism. Getting around Lenz is still the main issue, though.

Quote:
Thus I see the correct position for any compression springs to be on the magnet side of the armature, as Wesley did, and not as Hendershot did with his springs on the opposite side of the armature and away from the magnet which increases the non-linearity of induction with respect to mechanical return force.
Yeah, I concur on that point. I really like Gary's design of that mechanism. "Form follows function," as they say.

Boguslaw, that device did NOT work. Can't say more about it, so don't ask. Please stay focused on Hendershot and Gary.

"Chesationers." You have me at a disadvantage. Define?

Chris
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  #170 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisW View Post

"Chesationers." You have me at a disadvantage. Define?

Chris
Well isn't that a good one Chris - took me ages to figure that out !

This must have been a laptop related blip where part of the word 'energisation' has ended up in 'Cheers', for I most certainly did not knowingly write that !

Tonight I checked whether a square of magnet field viewing film would resolve the neutral zone on a keeper as both are moved away from a horseshoe magnet.
It didn't !

Also I have been thinking more about the winding pulse that is mechanically generated.
This relates to armature core magnetisation with sharp reversal of magnetic domain alignments, hence a sharp reversal of electron orbit spin alignments with associated overwind induction.
This reversal is sharp one way and then the other, and is via magnetic induction only, so there cannot be any Lenz effect because the overwind neither induces nor causes that field reversal - it is purely magnetic as a result of mechanical oscillation.

Cheers ........... Graham.
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  #171 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2012, 05:32 AM
ChrisW ChrisW is offline
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Well then, it appears you've invented an entirely new word! Since it has already been used as an adieu and farewell, then its definition needs a little "hook" -- a catchy meaning to the type of farewell intended. Hmm -- do ponder upon this and let your sense of humor run free!

So if there's no Lenz interaction between the armature and the magnet, it would seem that a good balance of mass and overcoming the attraction is all that's needed. Along with, of course, something to cause the vibration at a rapid rate. I suspect the latter may be the difficult part, given the mass of the armature and coil. I'll know more tomorrow.

G'night -- and "chesations!"
Chris
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  #172 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2012, 08:53 PM
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The Neutral Zone ?

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Originally Posted by ChrisW View Post

So if there's no Lenz interaction between the armature and the magnet, it would seem that a good balance of mass and overcoming the attraction is all that's needed.
Agreed, though I guess that not all Lenz effect will be 'out of the window' with either a Gary or Hendershot arrangement, yet where any induction from magnetic field reversal is purely mechanical, then much conventional 'scientific' understanding about winding induction based electrical induction will be rendered inapplicable.

So like you Chris I too went looking for the neutral zone - I dug deep into my 'magnets' box, found and used a miniature field tracing compass, a horshoe magnet and its keeper -
and that neutral zone wasn't there !
No matter how I tried - with keeper away from the magnet - end on or at the side of pole faces - or even using two magnets side by side with parallelled polarities.

I tried two spaced magnets too - in field opposition, and yes there was a neutral zone, but it was so gradual and linear as to be no use at transient induction.

So I tried two keepers end-to-end with one horseshoe magnet - and there it was - exactly as I surmised a couple of posts back !
There was an absolute needle slap of polarity change sensed by the compass - this induced by a longitudinal physical displacement normal the pole face line - and which felt as if not requiring any mechanical effort at all !

I really do so hope that many more people are reading this thread than are the very few who are contributing.
Go try it folks - and be surprised !

Cheers ........... Graham.

Last edited by GSM : 12-02-2012 at 08:55 PM.
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  #173 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2012, 10:35 PM
john_g john_g is offline
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Hi Graham

Would you be able to do a diagram of your setup?

I have been playing with some phone coils and small horseshoe magnet. What surprised me is the reach of the magnetic induction. In the pic you can just see a thin soft iron bar held onto the coils U core by induction. What is surprising is how close the U core need to be until it gets ripped off and attracted to the magnet.

I have been trying to find this neutral line without success.

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Old 12-03-2012, 09:57 AM
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Hi John.

One of the most significant aspects of magnetic induction into a rod/ bar/ lamination of soft iron/ ferrite etc., is that the active domain alignments are NOT like those typically illustrated by Wikipedia/ YouTube videos etc. in static form !

Where a coil overwind induces a field, that field is longitudinal only through that portion of the bar within the winding itself, and not along its entire length as would be the case with a permanent magnet. Those soft iron/ ferrite magnetic domains within a core but beyond the end of the field core winding induced energisation, tend to gain increasingly radial orientation with respect to the core axis, thus the most efficient electromagnetic and-or electromechanical magnetic transduction arises where the coil and core have equal length and same end lengths, as with old fashioned telephone ringers and field coil energised loudspeakers.

Take the plain horseshoe magnet -
http://www.coolmagnetman.com/gallery/images/p11.gif

Further to my comment about being fed up with seeing field lines being drawn in relation to magnets, here I ask everyone to note that the line looping out below from the centre of the magnet is misleading, for field strength is like a figure-of-eight around the poles, and, being inverse (square, but dimension modified) related to distance away from any pole centre is weakest along those out looping centre lines.
Of course we do know this, but the mind's eye works differently !!!!!

Now with a long keeper -
http://www.coolmagnetman.com/gallery/images/p12.gif

Note that the field lines cut through/ into the keeper.
However, what this illustration does not clarify is pole fields extending out to the ends of that keeper, such that the keeper ends retain the polarity of the magnet it is attracted to.
This same state of keeper polarisation exists as the keeper is pulled off and out away from the magnet to a distance about 1/4" with my non-special horseshoe magnet, such that the ends of my twice length keeper retain magnet matching polarity throughout that close gap range.

Beyond this distance however, where figure-of-eight field strength polarity from the magnet poles extend and loop outwards exactly as they do with a bar magnet, this field can reach to and enter the ends of the keeper.

The paramagnetic keeper then becomes polarised from end to end in free space gaining its own figure of eight field strength polarisation, such that the weakening figure-of-eight magnet field between the magnet poles can no longer impose radial domain alignment through the side of the keeper.

In so doing, the keeper becomes a series polarised paramagnet with end polarities suddenly reversed compared to those observed in closer situ. The keeper becomes wholly end-to-end series magnetised in reverse to the parallel end polarity existing before, and, is it possible that a centre region saturation causes an avalanching electron spin wave (domain reversal) to extend outwards to the keeper/ armature ends ?

From these studies I think this effect would be better transduced at keeper/ armature ends, rather than via a single centre coil winding, and thus it might well be that Lester Hendershots piggy-back 'buzzer' arrangement has represented a superior magnetic circuit for transducing end of armature polarity changes.
But what if a multilayer transducing sleeve wind around the armature ends were to fill the gap between the pole faces and the vibrating armature itself ?

Cheers ...... Graham.

(Time to feed the birds.)

Last edited by GSM : 12-04-2012 at 08:19 AM. Reason: grammar wordage
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  #175 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2012, 02:18 PM
jmwilk jmwilk is offline
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Hi Graham,

Can you post a diagram of what is meant by two keepers...?

JMWilk
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  #176 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2012, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmwilk View Post
Hi Graham,

Can you post a diagram of what is meant by two keepers...?

JMWilk
Two thin horsehoe magnet keepers aligned and taped end to end in place of the single one flat keeper normally used.
Makes up a twice length keeper - more alike the second .gif illustration.
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  #177 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2012, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSM View Post
Hi John.

..... and, is it possible that a centre region saturation causes an avalanching electron spin wave (domain reversal) to extend outwards to the keeper/ armature ends ?
....

Cheers ...... Graham.

(Time to feed the birds.)
it seem that some avalanching effect is provided by impulses and transverse magnetization ... in small wire size ??

note: free tools for micromagnetics

1***NMAG User Manual (0.2.1) — NMAG User Manual v0.2.1 documentation
Nmag - computational micromagnetics
Nmag is a flexible finite element micromagnetic simulation package

Last edited by wings : 12-03-2012 at 03:39 PM.
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  #178 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2012, 05:37 PM
mikec_ut mikec_ut is offline
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Lurking

All,

There are others that are lurking and reading the posts of this site. As I stated before I wanted to investigate the Mk1-2 version. I have limited time to spend but I do have a basketweave/honeycomb coil wound (approx. 3" dia.) done and am now working on the transformer iron (core 3, 18, 23 and 27). I have worked on circuits that have capacitors and inductors but I have no experience with just magnetic induction resonance based on North/South, Clockwise/Counter Clockwise, cores connected/not connected, etc.

Keep posting your thoughts on the Mk1-2 as you work on the Mk3. All random thoughts can and will help in investigating these devices. I believe the Mk1 uses the zero point crossover as the energisation in coil #6/magnet core #7 but the Mk2 uses the buzzer method within the assembly of #9, #30, #28, #31, etc. Oh yea, I left out hinged plate #2 that moves against core #3.

I just need to build my first prototype (first one is always bad, don't work) to get an idea of the interaction between all of the parts. Flying an airplane around would make you want a unidirectional device but for testing the Mk1 is what I intend to base my first prototype on. I'll be here for awhile. Thanks for all your thoughts.
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  #179 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2012, 08:19 PM
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Hi Mike,

The reason I am not working on the Mk1-2 is because of the lack of information plus my inability to comprehend what is presented, so sorry I just cannot help here.

Hi Wings,

That made me smile - I don't have the time necessary to learn new software, besides all of my best work has always been 'hands-on' and I only ever used simulators to later prove performance at a distance.
Also simulators only give back what has been put in, so they are not a lead towards intuition and novelty, though I suppose it might be possible to illustrate the sudden end of keeper field change replication first reported here by Chris, and then myself.

This fundamental magnetic response is so amazing that its replication must be an essential observation step for everyone here.

Cheers .......... Graham.

Postscript at 08:00, 4th Dec 2012.
It takes such little energy and movement, in either closer or farther direction, to initiate this double length end of keeper field reversal.
Also, as there is no way that one overwind per keeper could not flash illuminate an LED, it might be possible to make continuous light through keeper field oscillation by reactive feedback to a third overwind common to both keepers, this possibly via some kind of solid state circuitry.

Last edited by GSM : 12-04-2012 at 08:22 AM.
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  #180 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2012, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wings View Post
A servo-valve torque motor (used in hydraulics) is similar to this experiment

at the end of this document...
Body

Team ME 5.3

Using simulation software to simplify DSP-based Electro-Hydraulic Servo Actuator Designs: Part 2 | Embedded
Thanks for the links Wings, especially at the end of the first one.

You made me realise that in this situation the magnet is like a pressurising head of water which never becomes reduced because it is permanently maintained, and the sudden end of armature field changes might be just like a self sustaining water hammer/ bouncing ball valve effect which relates to the oscillating length of water column (armature) delay, acting relative to a phase delayed ball valve actuation (R-L-C SS field switching?).

Cheers .......... Graham.
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