The Extraluminal Transmission Systems of Tesla and Alexanderson by Eric Dollard

The Secret of Tesla's Power Magnification

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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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Old 09-22-2012, 08:06 PM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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Mechanical Devices with Energy Gain

Hi Everybody,

This new thread is for the discussion of anyone's design for a mechanical device that can take the torque of a mechanical input and output it at the same speed with a torque increase.

Any designs that propose how to do this using purely mechanical means, or with assists from permanent magnets, gravity, centrifugal force, or any other Process of Nature that does not require the operator to expend extra energy as an input, are welcome for discussion.

As an example, here is the photograph of a machine designed by Jim Murray that is claimed to "double the torque" of any electric motor attached to it.



I will propose what I believe to be the method as I am able.

Peter
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:21 AM
ekpod ekpod is offline
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One or two possibilities,

The small torque electric motor attaches to a gearshaft and weight. The weight is built onto a swing arm such that the motor will generate a pendulum effect when it is running, progressively launching it back and forth upwards to a greater degree each time in order to drive a piston.

There are positioned a repeller and attractor magnet on a small wheel. There is a large magnetic rotor geared into spinning it quickly in order to attract the oncoming magnetic force, then repel it from behind with the gained momentum. Perhaps this would not need a motor drive in order to produce motion.
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:12 PM
Rubberband Rubberband is offline
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To i_ron

Copied from another post....Quote:
Originally Posted by i_ron
Stealth,

I am not a newbie, rather a retired machinist, a master builder. Some of my projects...

rohndoe's channel - YouTube

I have worked with other inventors and have had COP 3 devices. My Ramos replication has had over 1000 views. It would not take much on your part to indicate a new direction for me. You have made the claims, I am prepared to follow up on them.

Ron

Hello Ron, I've enjoyed watching your videos. Your work is excellent, and I was wondering if you have ever worked with pendulum controlled swing weights as shown in my video here....

Title07.mpg - YouTube

I saw your work with your reversing switch one, mine uses spring controlled advancing wheel, like the centrificals in an old style ignition distributer. My life, has kept me from being able to build it in only the manner shown in the video. Please let me know here if you would like more info, as to build it. Thanks, Wally
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:52 PM
spiner spiner is offline
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I think that the key in all this mechanical systems is to design a mechanism that converts centrifugal force in work. Milkovic systems , sixto ramos system... both has centrifugal force, if they can make overunity it will due because can extract energy from centrifugal force.

Stefan Marinov wrote about it and made the easy maths on how centrifugal force can produce energy, his paper is: "generation of free momentum and free energy by the help of centrifugal forces"

Generation of free momentum of free energy by the help of centrifugal forces

Stefan Marinov maths are easy, centrifugal force is a real source of free energy.

Gravitsapa by Valery Menshikov is a inertal propulsion system that was installed in Russian satellite "Yubileiny"
. Gravitsapa
In pravda it is said that this system is a perpetuum mobile

Russian scientists test perpetual motion machine in space - English pravda.ru
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:08 PM
spiner spiner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Lindemann View Post
Hi Everybody,

This new thread is for the discussion of anyone's design for a mechanical device that can take the torque of a mechanical input and output it at the same speed with a torque increase.

Any designs that propose how to do this using purely mechanical means, or with assists from permanent magnets, gravity, centrifugal force, or any other Process of Nature that does not require the operator to expend extra energy as an input, are welcome for discussion.

As an example, here is the photograph of a machine designed by Jim Murray that is claimed to "double the torque" of any electric motor attached to it.



I will propose what I believe to be the method as I am able.

Peter

Peter, I have never seen that system, where is more information about it?
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:14 PM
i_ron i_ron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubberband View Post
Copied from another post....Quote:
Originally Posted by i_ron
snip

Hello Ron, I've enjoyed watching your videos. Your work is excellent, and I was wondering if you have ever worked with pendulum controlled swing weights as shown in my video here....

Title07.mpg - YouTube

I saw your work with your reversing switch one, mine uses spring controlled advancing wheel, like the centrificals in an old style ignition distributer. My life, has kept me from being able to build it in only the manner shown in the video. Please let me know here if you would like more info, as to build it. Thanks, Wally
Wally,

Thanks for the interest. I have tried some of these devices and what I found was friction takes to big a toll. I am afraid that will happen with yours also.

You can prove me wrong of course, lol

Ron
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:19 AM
Rubberband Rubberband is offline
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Thanks.....

Wally,

Thanks for the interest. I have tried some of these devices and what I found was friction takes to big a toll. I am afraid that will happen with yours also.

You can prove me wrong of course, lol

Ron
Ok, maybe someday I will get to try it, your work on your videos really impressed me. Do you have any videos of the work you did in this type of devices?, I'd to see what you did.....did any of yours use the screw lever principle too?

Last edited by Rubberband : 09-24-2012 at 12:21 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:31 AM
i_ron i_ron is offline
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Originally Posted by Rubberband View Post

Ron
Ok, maybe someday I will get to try it, your work on your videos really impressed me. Do you have any videos of the work you did in this type of devices?, I'd to see what you did.....did any of yours use the screw lever principle too?
Wally,

Not all of my videos are still up, couple of good ones just disappeared, however short answer to your question, no.

Ron
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Old 09-24-2012, 02:50 PM
i_ron i_ron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Lindemann View Post
Hi Everybody,

This new thread is for the discussion of anyone's design for a mechanical device that can take the torque of a mechanical input and output it at the same speed with a torque increase.

snip
Peter
Thanks Peter for starting this forum. As I mentioned before I am quite interested in the work of ---

Felix Wurth

living energy machine - YouTube

And of course, George Constantinesco's torque converter (Fig 16)

George Constantinesco: Inertial Transmission (US Patent 1591471 etc)

So now we can add Murry and Ucross to the list---

UCROS ENERGIES OF THE NEW RENEWABLE ENERGY CYCLE ELECTRICAL - ENGLISH

Ron

Last edited by i_ron : 09-24-2012 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:07 AM
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Ucros Drive

Hi everybody, Thanks Peter for starting a new forum thread for these type of machines. Good to see original ideas Stealth. I have added a pic on the UCROS device, I hope it helps. Regards Arto

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Old 09-26-2012, 02:21 PM
vrand vrand is offline
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Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
I had about 20 minutes free time today, so I sat down and drew a rough sketch of the v.1 as I had promised.
Thank you for taking the time to post your interesting energy gain design. Any thoughts of selling devices that can power a home electrical needs?
Cheers
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Old 09-26-2012, 02:32 PM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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Thank You for Sharing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
I had about 20 minutes free time today, so I sat down and drew a rough sketch of the v.1 as I had promised. It has some design flaws, which are evident, which v.2 corrects and also v.2 has double the RPM as well as increases torque. Also v.2 eliminates some of the components while making major improvements on the design. This design is being open sourced, just to show the working principle of the apparatus. V.2 and v.3 are being withheld for possible future release. I designed this about 10 years ago and built a prototype to prove that the design works. This drawing is not to scale, but is only an attempt to convey the actual working design. Much can and has been done with this same principle, by myself, to really take it to another level. I am the owner of this design and other variations of this design, but you can use it to help improve the function of your machines or devices. Good Luck. stealth
Dear Stealth,

Thank you for sharing this design. It's quite interesting. At this point, I'm not sure exactly how it works. Would you be willing to offer your explanation of it's structure and operation, as well as why you believe it produces a multiplication of torque. I know everyone here in the thread would appreciate that a great deal.

Thanks,
Peter
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Old 09-26-2012, 02:33 PM
i_ron i_ron is offline
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Ucros

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Originally Posted by artoj View Post
Hi everybody, Thanks Peter for starting a new forum thread for these type of machines. Good to see original ideas Stealth. I have added a pic on the UCROS device, I hope it helps. Regards Arto
Thanks Arto,

I see in most of his animations that the crank bearing is on the same side as the counter weight, does this make a difference?

Ron
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Old 09-26-2012, 03:31 PM
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First drawing

Thanks Ron, I am glad you pointed this out, This will be in my next drawing and sequences. These pics are related to Sixto's design and a few others types as well.

The geometry I use has multiple overlays to harmonic, pyramid, Phi, Fibonacci relationships, so sometimes I find correlations to ancient pictorial art.

This forum has allowed me to expose these forms to open minded engineers, my research has unearthed some engineering principles hidden within hieroglyphs and art from many ancient cultures(pre 3000 BC). I figure if all of you can see the core of this type of sacred geometry and that it is more than pretty pictures that decorate the walls of ancient temples then I know I have found some parts of the hidden scientific language from antiquity. Thanks, regards Arto.
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:32 PM
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Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
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My musing on this

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Originally Posted by artoj View Post
Thanks Ron, I am glad you pointed this out, This will be in my next drawing and sequences. These pics are related to Sixto's design and a few others types as well.

The geometry I use has multiple overlays to harmonic, pyramid, Phi, Fibonacci relationships, so sometimes I find correlations to ancient pictorial art.

This forum has allowed me to expose these forms to open minded engineers, my research has unearthed some engineering principles hidden within hieroglyphs and art from many ancient cultures(pre 3000 BC). I figure if all of you can see the core of this type of sacred geometry and that it is more than pretty pictures that decorate the walls of ancient temples then I know I have found some parts of the hidden scientific language from antiquity. Thanks, regards Arto.
Hi Arto, well done as always.

As you have shown here there would be no gain as far as I can see, the pros and cons balance one another out. Now if the fulcrum point of the balance beam was moved to give more positive leverage and the eccentric distance moved on the other side to create the correct start and 360 degree final point equal on both sides, as in Sexto Ramos, then there maybe something!!!

As it is there is a balance to each side apart from the sine wave that is produced "oscillation" as you have shown in your graph.

This brings me to the post I made on the Ramos thread of the connecting rod being a sealed piston that stores and gives up energy at the moments that are required, as like a smoothing capacitor in electronics, but here charges and discharges fully each revolution.

The piston is a sealed piston which when in it's static position it neither has pressure or vacuum in it, and different gases could be tested for suitability, those gases that change rapidly from liquid to gas and vice versa, I would think would be the best candidates "just musing again".

Mike
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:31 PM
DaS Energy DaS Energy is offline
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Hello Peter,
I am not sure if this fits the bill, however a three stage steam piston engine appears to fit the bill. The steam exhaust of the first cylinder enters a cylinder of twice the diameter which then exhausts to a cylinder three times the size of the first. Each cylinder provides the same power, thereby the shaft is receiving three times more collective power for the same steam volume input.

Cheers Peter
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:21 PM
Stealth Stealth is offline
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V.1 operation

The operating principle of v.1 is similar to the way an automobile engine works. Two large wheels, are attached to a common shaft, the input shaft from a motor. As the wheels turn clockwise they engage an arm by means of a roller bearing. As the wheels turn, they lift an arm along a radial path to their apex. They engage the arm at 9'o clock position and disengage at the 12'Oclock position. The arms are attached to a fulcrum by a roller bearing, and are just long enough to house a roller bearing in the end of the arm. The connecting rods are attached to the end of the arms, and small wheels that have a common shaft on the other end. The length of the arms on the fulcrum are much longer on the large wheel side and short on the connecting rod sides. The length of the arms from fulcrum to connecting rods are the same length as the offset bearings on the smaller wheels. As one arm is lifted by a rotating wheel, it moves the arm on the connecting rod of the fulcrum a shorter distance, which in turn moves the wheels on the output shaft 180 degrees. When the other large wheel engages its arm, it moves the other wheel on the output shaft another180 degrees, where the cycle starts over. The leverage is variable depending on several factors, and is only limited by size and space. My prototype produced 8-1 ratio, while maintaining the same RPM's. Good Luck. stealth

Last edited by Stealth : 09-28-2012 at 11:29 PM.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:54 PM
Stealth Stealth is offline
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Vrand, thanks for the interest in my torque converter. I have only built a prototype to prove that it works as designed. I haven't as of yet, built one myself for my own use. The latter designs, especially, are more than capable of producing enough torque to run a house on. With v.2 the design is even more of a mechanical gain device. V.3, which has not been prototyped as of yet, is radically different and theoretically should compete satisfactorily with v.2, except for the RPM increase, using only 4 moving parts. As much as I like the torque conversion methods, I have other designs that I desperately need to prototype. A radical engine, that uses any fuel, gas or liquid, and increases efficiency far exceeding the internal commbustion engine. Also a mechanical gravity device that will run many years after starting, until the bearings wear out, not perpetual, but close. I am considering building all of these devices for myself, but have had no thought of selling any. Good Luck. stealth

Last edited by Stealth : 09-29-2012 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:58 AM
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UCROS pivot

Here is the updated version, you can easily see this will have a asymmetric velocity profile. Regards Arto
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:13 AM
vrand vrand is offline
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Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
Vrand, thanks for the interest in my torque converter. I have only built a prototype to prove that it works as designed. I haven't as of yet, built one myself for my own use. The latter designs, especially, are more than capable of producing enough torque to run a house on. With v.2 the design is even more of a mechanical gain device. V.3, which has not been prototyped as of yet, is radically different and theoretically should compete satisfactorily with v.2, except for the RPM increase, using only 4 moving parts. As much as I like the torque conversion methods, I have other designs that I desperately need to prototype. A radical engine, that uses any fuel, gas or liquid, and increases efficiency far exceeding the internal commbustion engine. Also a mechanical gravity device that will run many years after starting, until the bearings wear out, not perpetual, but close. I am considering building all of these devices for myself, but have had no thought of selling any. Also, I have considered writing a book, detailing some of my most important achievements, but as for now, I am extremely busy, working on my house and landscaping. I am using one of my designs now, a heat converter, to heat the fuel in my ICE. Works great! Good Luck. stealth
Thank you for the update. Your design looks interesting, when you have more time please continue your research and model builds, as there is a huge market for high efficient energy devices to save on fossil fuels.
Cheers
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:55 AM
aaron5120 aaron5120 is offline
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Hi Artoj,
I first ask you to forgive me for my mechanical ignorance if the following idea is deemed stupid. I wondered if adding an inertial mass supported with a semi-rigid rod to the lever of the UCROS mechanism would increase the output power of the device? Is this principle taken from the Peruvian device applicable to the UCROS machine? Does gravity or the inertia will assist with the rotation?
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:47 PM
markusbraunfe markusbraunfe is offline
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I think Ucros' and Fernando's machine are in some sense equivalent and that the working principle is the transfer of inertia back and forth.
I think it does not matter where the mass is locatedm whether in the wheels or on the top of the connecting arm. Just the sum of all inertias is what matters. But I could be wrong.

I think the same effect could be achieved by using 2 flywheels
and some elliptical gears like these:
Cunningham Industries, Inc.
since the output speed of the second gear is variable.
What do you think, could the same velocity curve of counterrotating wheels linked by an arm be achieved with the right gears ?
Would the gears endure the constant material stress? (dynamic load).

It would be interesting to build a small prototype and seem how it works.
Are good CNC shops able to make those elliptical gears?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron5120 View Post
Hi Artoj,
I first ask you to forgive me for my mechanical ignorance if the following idea is deemed stupid. I wondered if adding an inertial mass supported with a semi-rigid rod to the lever of the UCROS mechanism would increase the output power of the device? Is this principle taken from the Peruvian device applicable to the UCROS machine? Does gravity or the inertia will assist with the rotation?
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:38 PM
i_ron i_ron is offline
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Good work

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Here is the updated version, you can easily see this will have a asymmetric velocity profile. Regards Arto
Thanks Arto, that looks good. Sort of in answer to Aaron's question, Ucros does show a model with counter weights on the beam.

Incidentally Ramos is selling a high powered version for $75,000. Ucross will sell the 3Kw model for $7,000. He states that there is a hidden key that is only revealed with the purchase of a kit.

Ron
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Old 10-01-2012, 05:00 AM
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George Constantinesco

Hi members, I thought I would include a sheet that might help those who need to understand the simplicity of concepts that George Constantinesco has imparted to engineering history. This is just one of many conceptualizations and actual machines he did over his lifetime.. He helped develop the sprag clutch bearing which I included in the picture as part of the one-way mechanism that is essential to the workings of his torque converter. His initial design drawings were a gear and double pawl mechanism that transferred the linear motion to rotary motion. Regards Arto
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Old 10-02-2012, 04:44 AM
PhysicsProf PhysicsProf is offline
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Interesting thread! Thanks Peter and all contributors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by i_ron View Post
Incidentally Ramos is selling a high powered version for $75,000. Ucross will sell the 3Kw model for $7,000. He states that there is a hidden key that is only revealed with the purchase of a kit.

Ron
Ron, are you in contact with these guys? Are Ramos (Peru?) and Ucross (Mexico?) in collaboration?

I looked at vids showing Ramos and his device - awesome!
Fernando Ramos of Peru wins bronze prize at a competition in Geneva for his invention:
Un invidente peruano espera llevar la luz al mundo - YouTube
Further progress and development:
Invidente peruano gana premio internacional por invento - YouTube

I would be interested in a device around $3K to $7K even -- IF I could have a money-back guarantee if it was not in fact more-energy-out-than-in (ou). And I could line up a neighbor who is following my work (Davey with electrolysis and joule-thief systems mostly) and who would (I am SURE) also buy a kit in this price range. Two kits, then...

And that applies to you, too, Stealth -- not that I follow everything that you're saying, but I'm very interested in your research and work. And prototypes... More power to you!


--Steven Jones
PS -- I'm doing electrolysis work which builds on my cold-fusion work from years ago, with ideas from Peter Davey added! Here's my web-page FYI:
Dr. Steven E. Jones
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:10 PM
Antonio90 Antonio90 is offline
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Ramos device

Hi..Members

RedJediEvolution.com • Ver Tema - mentira o verdad sobre el sistema multiplicador de fuerza de un inventor peruano

Iam online with you of Ramos device

Antonio
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:14 PM
Antonio90 Antonio90 is offline
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RedJediEvolution.com • Ver Tema - mentira o verdad sobre el sistema multiplicador de fuerza de un inventor peruano
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2012, 05:52 PM
Stealth Stealth is offline
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The problem I have right now is, that I designed and protoyped this 10 years ago or so. The prototype was only built to prove that the principle works. Once I tested the principle, I cannibalized the prototype. I am not sure if any of it exists today or not. If I can find any remnant of it, I can revive it. If not, then I will have to build another, but not of V.1, I would build either V.2 or V.3. V.2 is only a more advanced version of V.1, I know that it would work as well. V.3 has not been prototyped or tested. I would have to build it to test its parameters. Although the theories are sound, sometimes in a real world situation, things don't always adhere to a projected theory. After years of doing R&R, I have found that many times things don't work out like they were designed. Many inventors and experiments have either given up or lost interest and drive after having many dissapointing failures. When you are encountering new and uncharted areas of exploration, you have neither a guide or direction, other than possibly intuition and inspiration. Edison tried hundred of times to invent the simple light bulb. I am unprepared to build one at the moment. Hopefully, soon I will be prepared to start a build. Good Luck. Stealth
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2012, 06:57 PM
i_ron i_ron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhysicsProf View Post
Interesting thread! Thanks Peter and all contributors.



Ron, are you in contact with these guys? Are Ramos (Peru?) and Ucross (Mexico?) in collaboration?
snip
Here's my web-page FYI:
Dr. Steven E. Jones
Hi Steven,

No, not Ramos, close but then it fell through, With Carlos Ucros, just a few emails, nothing revealed.
Ucros is aware of Ramos, that is all as far as I understand.


Ron
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:26 PM
PhysicsProf PhysicsProf is offline
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Thanks much for replies, Stealth and Ron.
Stealth: "Once I tested the principle, I cannibalized the prototype. I am not sure if any of it exists today or not. If I can find any remnant of it, I can revive it. " There is a lesson here! I've done the same thing in the past, but now try to keep my "best" circuit (or prototype) working and build a new one fresh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio90 View Post
Thank you, Antonio. I am interested. I went to your link, and found this comment -- is it from you?

Quote:
ultima noticias la empresa don sixto ramos ya los esta vendiendo pero a precios muy elevados por un multiplicador de fuerza que usa 5 hp y tiene una salida de 100 hp piden 75.000 dolares.

estan en este momento negociando con unas empresas de brasil para los derechos de fabricacion y produccion del mismo.

English: latest company news and Don Sixto Ramos is selling at very high prices but by a force multiplier that uses 5 hp and has an output of 100 hp asking $ 75,000.

are currently negotiating with some companies in Brazil for manufacturing and production rights thereof.
This is a remarkable claim! Is there a smaller machine that one could purchase, that costs less than about $7,000?
Esta es una afirmacin extraordinaria! Hay una mquina ms pequea que se poda comprar, que cuesta menos de unos 7.000 dlares?

Thanks again.
Steven

Last edited by PhysicsProf : 10-02-2012 at 07:29 PM.
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