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  #1  
Old 09-03-2012, 05:52 AM
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My Scooter Wheel Energizer

Hi folks, I was looking around energetic science forum and realized i had a garbage picked scooter just waiting to be used for something technolike.
So I'm building an energizer with a scooter wheel, 3-1/2" diameter wheel and using four 3/4" diameter X 3/8" depth ceramic permanent magnets.
I have built a few self triggering energizer type wheels before, though not a scooter wheel and the only energizer i built that had decent bearings, i used a reed switch, so that does not qualify really.
Anyway, will be something fun to look at, rotating away on the table.
Here is a pic so far of me progress, just have to work out how to mount it horizontally to a wood plate, meaning flat wise.
Let me know what you folks think and share any tips you might have from your projects, thanks.


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peace love light
tyson
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  #2  
Old 09-04-2012, 10:45 AM
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Hi folks, my scooter energizer is ready to test, will fire it up later today sometime.
It has 24 awg. bifilar coil, i used an inductor from an audio crossover, the laminated core is probably 1/4 the size of the permanent magnet.
2n3055 w/heatsink.
Each 24awg. strand is 2 ohms.
Any comments are welcome, when i get it running good and charging some batteries, I will post a video for those interested.
I also plan to make experiments with this setup, like pickup coils and maybe some magnet behind coil tricks to see what happens and since the speed should be fairly high, I will try the speed up under pickup coil load effect, like thanes work and others.
Here is a pic of the setup, ready to start testing.


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tyson
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:34 AM
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Flying magnets

Hi SkyWatcher,

That is a very nice looking setup. I am concerned about what is holding the magnets in the wheel. At the speed your wheel will probably turn those magnets could come flying out like bullets. For safety I think I would at least wrap a couple of turns of fiberglass packing tape around the outside of them. Please be careful.

Respectfully,
Carroll
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:09 PM
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Hi carroll, thanks for the reply and kind words.
The magnets are recessed a bit into the wheel and i used thick super glue.
I would think that would be strong enough, though I'm not sure.
I don't have any fiber packing tape, i have duct tape though, that has some fiber reinforcement i believe.
peace love light
tyson
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:16 PM
wrtner wrtner is offline
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This is an SSG, isn't it? And we can take power off the
shaft so long as we re-tune every time we alter. Since
there are three vacant magnet stations, you could put
three pick up coils infront of them and send the voltages
back to a new battery.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:52 PM
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Hi wrtner, thanks for the reply.
Yes, this is an SSG and i do plan on trying pickup coils, want to see also if i can get some speed up, under pickup coil loading effects.
Has anyone built an SSG or energizer as it is called also sometimes, if so, please feel free to share any pics or information, thanks.
Am going to fire it up now.
peace love light
tyson
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Old 09-05-2012, 01:45 AM
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Hi folks, I have been testing the scooter wheel SSG, it is working well.
I initially used a 1.5kohm base resistor, though that caused the coil to self oscillate without rotor movement, then i used a 1kohm base resistor and it was hit or miss, then i put two 1 kohm resistors in parallel for 500 ohms and it no longer self oscillated and started to accelerate nicely when given a spin by hand.
Then added another 1kohm resistor in parallel for around 333 ohms base resistance and it improved acceleration, top speed and charging for an input at 12 volts, 200 milliamps using a 7AH SLA.
Also charging a 12 volt, 7AH SLA off the flyback diode.
No heat noticeable anywhere and the second battery is charging well.
I will post a video later for those interested.
peace love light
tyson
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Old 09-05-2012, 05:17 AM
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Video of scooter wheel energizer

Hi folks, here is a video of the scooter wheel rotating away and charging another 12 volt, 7AH SLA battery, while drawing around 180 milliamps.
Here is the youtube video link:
SSG Scooter Wheel Energizer Motor - YouTube
peace love light
tyson
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Old 09-05-2012, 02:31 PM
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Tuning is very crucial. It might be helpful to refresh your memory
of the process at page 18:

http://www.rodscontracts.ws/images/p...Experiment.pdf

Paul-R

p.s. Remember that every time you change any element of the setup,
possibly by adding pick up coils, re-tuning is necessary.
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:25 PM
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Hi wrtner, thanks for the reply.
Thanks for posting that pdf link, it will come in handy as i run tests on this setup.
I ran some battery swapping tests yesterday, just to get an idea of how it is charging and it was going for at least 6 cycles before a slight over all drop of about 10 millivolts in each battery, so it appears an efficient setup so far.
Many tests to come.
peace love light
tyson
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:31 AM
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Hi folks, After only one partial charge cycle, I can't take the racket anymore, the scooter wheel bearing apparently is just to worn out and is like water dripping on the forehead, hehe.
Sooo, I am going to use a mountain bike wheel, 27" i believe and will mount many rectangular ceramic magnets i have laying around.
This bicycle wheel has very nice bearings and will run quiet and smooth.
Just have to work out a mount system for it and make a new coil.
The other scooter wheel was charging fairly well though, i will see what the COP turned out to be with that small test when i discharge the battery.
Here is a picture of the mountain bike wheel, it is steel rim, though hopefully it will still work ok.


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tyson

edit: i take that back, it seems the wheel is aluminum and the spokes also might be aluminum as they also don't attract the neo magnet i used to test for ferromagnetic properties.
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Last edited by SkyWatcher; 09-07-2012 at 04:42 AM.
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Old 09-07-2012, 06:49 AM
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Hi folks, here is the coil I will be using and the magnets.
The coil is 5 strand 24 awg. and will probably just parallel 4 of the strands together and use the 5th one as the trigger.
I used coat hanger wire that had thin paint coating.
Here is a pic.


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Old 09-07-2012, 09:10 AM
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Parallel strands

Hi Tyson, nice project so far.
I'm not sure but I think if youput the 4 strands together ,it will act as a single strand of a heavier guage similar to ~18 awg.
In that link by Paul-R (btw thank-you) ,it say's for the wire to not be more than 3 guage sizes apart.
I could be wrong though, maybe someone with more knowledge can clarify.
Good luck
shylo
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Old 09-07-2012, 09:22 AM
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Hi shylo, thanks for the reply.
Yes i read that also, i already had this coil wound and just added the coat hanger core, so we'll see how it goes, i can always rewind later, if it doesn't work out well, thanks for the tip.
Have you built an SSG with a bicycle wheel or anything similar, thanks, if so, curious how it worked out.
Anyone else care to chime in and offer their experiences and results with SSG bike wheels or similar, thanks.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:18 AM
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bicycle wheel SSG

Hi tyson,

I have built a couple of them and they work very well. With the larger wheel you just have to take your time as you tune them because of the extra mass. In other words you adjust the pot and wait for a few minutes for the wheel speed to stabilize. I have also helped a couple of other people with their builds and we have all gotten ours to work just fine. I am glad to see your wheel is actually aluminum as everything I have read says steel does not work well. One of mine is aluminum and the other is some kind of polymer I think. It looks like plastic. Both seem to work about the same. Your magnets look just like the ones I used that I got from Lowes so they should work fine. Your coil also looks like a very nice job. I am curious to see how the multistrand coil is going to work for you. My feelings are it will work even better because of the lower resistance of the parallel wires. I guess we will see when you get it going. The only other thing I can think to tell you is to be sure and clean out all the grease from the wheel bearings and then use some light weight oil like 3 in 1 oil on the bearings. Also loosen the bearings a little so there is just a little play. The Bedini group that I belonged to said the wheel should spin for at least a minute of so after you give it a hard spin by hand. This is before you mount the coil because the coil will give you a lot of drag. Also the bicycle wheels work best if mounted vertically. The bearings just don't seem to spin free if the wheel is mounted flat. That is all I can think of for now.

Later,
Carroll
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Old 09-07-2012, 09:26 PM
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Hi carroll, thanks for the kind and informative reply.
Yes I noticed the wheel bearing seemed to like the vertical position, so that is how it will be built.
I also think the spokes are a nonmagnetic steel.
Once assembled, i will see if the bearings need to be cleaned and a thinner oil used, by the one minute test.
Thanks again.
By the way, the other small charge cycle with the scooter wheel did not do so well, it seems with that setup, the charge was a little fluffy or it needed to be tuned for more efficient charging.
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:29 AM
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Hi folks, here is the wheel mounted and ready to affix magnets to wheel.
I tested the free wheeling duration and even without the magnets mounted and a fairly light spin, it rotated one minute without touching the bearings yet.
Your comments as always are welcome.


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Last edited by SkyWatcher; 09-08-2012 at 12:32 AM.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:12 AM
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Coil Strands

hi SkyWatcher,
I have tested a lot of different coil geometries with my ssg. It has a 175mm rotor. Made from an old hard drive platter/ bearing assembly and a couple hunks of wood for mass. I have tried bifilar, trifilar, quadfilar and pentfilar. Litzed and unlitzed. I always have a separate strand for my trigger. I have connect all power strands together in parallel to one transistor and tried connecting each separate strand to a transistor(this is best for me) and uses less power. I tried connecting a trifilar in series once (blew transistor).
I have had coils that were 30mm in diameter up to 100mm. Its been said that coils size should be up to the magnet size. I found little difference if the coils was larger than the magnets. The larger the core, the more torque it produced. Since I was after power to my batteries and not torque, I ended up with 10mm cores atm. Takes a little time to spin up, but those transistors are snappy . I am currently using 3 coils on my SSG. The primary(with trigger) is litzed to preserve the trigger signal. The other coils are unlitzed and use the trigger from the primary. Since my SSG is horizontal, I can adjust the timing of each secondary coil by moving it around the rotor. I do this for the initial setup only. I use the gow bulb to keep the secondary coils in time. I have found the closer my coils are to the spinning rotor, the more efficient it is.
I too, believe in sharing. If we all shared our experiences, successes, failures, we would spend less time on the same things and have more time for real creativity. Good luck with your build.
Randy
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
I also think the spokes are a nonmagnetic steel
Probably stainless steel.

So long as the rim is aluminium, all should be well. And don't
forget that the north poles should be facing out.
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Old 09-09-2012, 03:23 AM
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Hi tachyoncatcher, thanks for the reply, I'm sure all that good information will come in handy, thanks.
I'm glad you believe in sharing as well, as who would really be here without it.
Hi wrtner, thanks for the reply.
Yep, probably stainless steel and i have a small magnet with north and south marked, so no problem with magnet polarity, thanks.
Had to get some more super glue, it takes awhile to get the magnet set properly and then i have to let each one dry before starting next magnet placement, so this is gonna take a few days.
Then I'll wrap them with one layer of duct tape as i have a full roll already on hand.
Then I will drill a 1" hole in coil wood base to bury the slightly protruding core rods and that way, I'll have a flat core surface, even with the end of coil.
peace love light
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:09 AM
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Hi folks, I finished gluing the magnets on the wheel and drilled a hole for the core, just have to duct tape the magnets now.
I tested the spin time without coil core and initially with the standard heavy grease that comes with the wheel, I was able to get 1 minute 5 seconds with a brisk spin.
Then i took apart the bearings and cleaned all the individual ball bearings, as they are all separate, and used a 3-1 type oil in the bearings and i was then able to get 10 minute spin time.
Will be testing it out soon.


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Last edited by SkyWatcher; 09-10-2012 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:27 AM
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Good spin time

Hi tyson,

That is very good spin time. It sounds like you are getting close to trying that new wheel out. Do you know how to tune for the best output? If you don't let me know and I'll try to explain it. Good luck.

Later,
Carroll
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:38 AM
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Hi carroll, i guess i forgot to post the pic, there it is, in the other post.
Yes, all i have to do is apply the tape around the wheel and hook up the coil and off she goes.
Yes, any help in tuning would be appreciated, thanks.
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:13 AM
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Tuning

Hi again,

Ok the first thing you have to have is some way to measure the rpm. I have one of those cheap laser tachs you can get on Ebay for about 15 to 20 dollars or so. It works fine with a piece of reflective tape on the wheel. The tape came with my tach. I put it on 2 of the spokes so the bright rim would not affect the reading. When you get the system running you want to tune for the maximum rpm per milliamps of current. This will probably NOT be the highest speed you can get from the wheel. Also any change you make like a different charge battery or a fully charged compared to an almost dead battery will change the setting for the most efficient output. This all sounds complicated but it isn't so bad once you get a feel for it.

When you get it running and charging your battery you measure the input current. I like to use a simple analogue panel meter. On the input side you can leave the meter in the circuit all the time. Next measure the rpms. Divide the rpms by the input current and write down the answer. Now adjust the pot a little and wait a few minutes for the system to stabilize. Again take the readings and do the calculations. You will want to do this several times with different settings of the pot. There will probably be some places where a small change in the pot will cause a large change in the speed of the wheel. This is one of the sweet spots you are looking for. There will be one of those sweet spots that will give you the best charging and least amount of current draw. There may be 2 or 3 of the sweet spots but one will be better than the others. Remember you are looking for the highest rpm for the least current draw. As I said earlier it will take some patience to get it right the first few times but after that you will begin to get a feel for about where you need to set the pot and it will get easier to tune. A small grain of wheat type bulb in the trigger circuit will help to keep it in tune as it charges the battery. Good luck and have fun.

Later,
Carroll
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Yes, any help in tuning would be appreciated, thanks.
peace love light
tyson
The link in post 9 is the gold standard.

Paul-R
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Old 09-10-2012, 03:05 PM
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Hi Paul,

Yes you are correct. I had forgotten you posted that. Thanks for that link. My old hard drive crashed and I had lost that info. So now I have it again. I belonged to the old BM3 group but I understand that has now been changed to a new group which I have not joined yet.

Later,
Carroll
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:55 AM
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Hi folks, thanks for the replies.
Hi carroll, for now, i am counting a sticker on the wheel, rotations per 10 seconds then i know roughly rpm, i am getting around 150 rpm when rotating counter clockwise and almost 200 rpm when rotating clockwise.
The lower rpm is charging better, though with a little more current draw, around 300 milliamps at 14 volts, psu.
I have a grain of wheat bulb from a mini mag lite, though it doesn't seem to change anything and does not light up, not sure if it is supposed to light up.
Other than that, I am rejuvenating all my 12 volt-7AH batteries and I will be writing down the run times to 12 volt discharge and charge times.
It seems as others have said, that it works very well for desulphating, which my batteries are in need of at this time.
Later, when these batteries are in better condition, then i will see how the COP on them works out.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:15 AM
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Hi Tyson,

My grain of wheat bulb glow was just barely visible when I was in the sweet spot. My wheel is smaller. My best one is 18 inches. It was only better because it ran truer. My other wheel had a wobble and didn't charge as well. Your's my be fine even though you don't see any glow. Glad you got it working.

Later,
Carroll
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:09 AM
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Hi carroll, thanks for the reply.
I'm not sure if you meant to just use the grain of wheat bulb only, because i am using 333 ohms base resistance and the grain of wheat in series with that.
Is that what you meant, or maybe i should have lower resistance in series with that grain of wheat, thanks.
Otherwise, it still seems pretty good, though i do notice the charging seems affected by the distance from the core.
Seems like if the magnet is further, the charging is better, though i can't say for sure yet, it just appears that way.
Because the voltage on the battery seems to rise quicker, though that might not mean it's charging better, could be fluffier.
Load tests will be more conclusive.
peace love light
tyson

edit: just wanted to make a correction, i thought for whatever reason, that my wheel was 27", it is actually 22" in diameter.
edit 2: also wanted to mention, i made the 1 ohm resistor output test and it showed around 275 millivolts.
So that means only around 76 milliwatts is what is charging these batteries, if only we can reproduce this charging with something like double or triple that wattage on the input side, that would be great, anyone think about that much.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:33 PM
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Hi again tyson,

Yes I use the grain of wheat bulb in series with my 1 k pot. I can then adjust my pot for best efficiency and charging. I am a little confused by your comment you are only getting 76 milliwatts of charging to the charge battery. That sounds about right for a single coil SSG. To get more charging for larger batteries you can add more coils or make a much larger coil with several power windings and use separate transistors for each power winding and fire each of them from a single trigger winding. And yes you may get better charging with the wheel a little farther from coil. Remember we are not charging with the magnets we are charging with the kickback from the coil. So getting the right spot for triggering the transistor is the secret.

Later,
Carroll
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