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  #61  
Old 02-25-2013, 07:13 PM
SeanK SeanK is offline
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Hi Everyone, Hi Tyson,
I finally managed to see something I have replaced the Diode with a UF5408 rectifier (I think its rated at 75ns) and a 100mF cap in the RC stage. I used a POT to adjust between 1-5k ohms. My primary and secondary are single AA NiMh.

Using the scope, I adjust the collector voltage to 11.4v @23KHz its a sharp noizy square wave. Increasing the ohms increases the frequency but reduces the amplitude of the pulse at the collector. I have played wih the settings to find a balance between the magnitude and frequency.

Is this what I am suppose to see ?
When does one know to stop the charging with radiant chargers ?
What happens if you don't (i.e. its not hot charging so can you damage the battery) ?

Sean
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Last edited by SeanK; 02-25-2013 at 07:55 PM.
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  #62  
Old 02-26-2013, 02:11 AM
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Hi sean, thanks for the reply.
Not sure what we're supposed to see, because have no scope here.
Recharged 2 AA alkalines a week ago and have been using them every other day in a portable cd player, so at least 8 hours of re-use so far, which is a plus with this high frquency setup.
At least 3 recharge cycles of used alkalines, should be easy to achieve.
Never noticed the non-rechargeable alkalines get warm, though nimh wil get warm if charged too long.
Also, when charging the alkalines, used a 6 volt DC wall wart here to charge the 2 AA's in series.
Hope that helps some.
peace love light
tyson
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  #63  
Old 02-26-2013, 03:29 AM
SeanK SeanK is offline
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Hi Tyson, thanks for sharing your experience.
How do you determine the end of charge ?
Are you monitoring the voltage or using a predetermined time ?
Do I have to cycle these batteries using the charger to "condition" them for this type of charging or will any battery recharge immediately ?

Sean

Sean
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  #64  
Old 02-27-2013, 03:31 PM
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Hi sean, thanks for the reply.
As far as charging, usually just check the volt meter every hour or so, since prior charges have shown generally what to expect time wise, though this could vary, if charging old sulfated cells.
As far as the alkaline type of cells, if they have been discharged already and haven't been sitting around too long, they will take a charge very well.
As far as nimh, etc., they will also take a charge very well, as long as they have not been sitting around too long in a discharged state.
Then yes, if a cell is sulfated, they will need to be cycled a few times at least.
This is usually seen with the cell showing higher than normal voltage when charging, then it starts to gradually drop back down to a more normal level, because the cell has a higher resistance with the corrosion.
Hope that helps for now.
peace love light
tyson
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  #65  
Old 02-27-2013, 08:16 PM
SeanK SeanK is offline
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Thanks Tyson, really appreciate your help.
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  #66  
Old 03-15-2013, 12:34 PM
SeanK SeanK is offline
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Hi Tyson, Thanks for all your help, I finally got it firing.. used a .37uF Ceramic cap but found a 1200pF and a few others worked too. The .37uF resulted in a low drop in the primary battery and a bigger spike (~20-30Vc).

I have also noticed that changing the cap results in a more ripely gate signal which increase the frequency of the spike (15 - 50KHz)
I am using a single AA to charge another. This is usually resulting in a dead primary and a charged secondary. Not sure if this is a fluff charge yet.
More test to do... but exciting its firing.
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Last edited by SeanK; 03-15-2013 at 12:43 PM.
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  #67  
Old 03-16-2013, 05:05 AM
SeanK SeanK is offline
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Hi Tyson et al,

Attached some screen shots of the wave form with 2 different caps (Tysons 100nf and Alexkor 2200pf)
Have not done enought testing yet. But trying to figure out which results in a better bang.
The 100nf cap Tyson uses puts a higher voltage across the charge battery with a 32v sharp spike
I also noticed the scope show a higer frequency for the collector compared to the gate waveform. Is this due to the large ripple ?

The 2200pf (cloest to the 2700pf specified on page 1) is a blunter wave (yellow in photos) putting out about 20v.


primary volt = 5v (old pc supply)
secondary = 9v NiMh
RED = gate wav form
YELLOW = Collector waveform

100nf (shows 9.81v across the secondary bat. and climbing)


2200pf (shows 9.66v across the secondary bat. and climing):
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Last edited by SeanK; 03-16-2013 at 05:15 AM.
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  #68  
Old 03-16-2013, 02:14 PM
SeanK SeanK is offline
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Hi Folks, Hi Tyson,
Below are two screen shots as in the previous post. I am now trying to charge a 12v/100ah NiMh.
Appreciate your feedback on the following question:

Is it better to have a lower frequency hivoltage spike (as in the first photo 200+KHz) ?
Or a lower voltage spike but higher frequency (1+MHz) ?

In both cases, the Transistor heats up quite a bit. Tyson do you experience that ? Besides a large heat sink or cooling fan, is there anything else to lower the temperature ?

Notice also that the gate voltage is high (18volts)... is this normal ?

Lower frequency Sharp skipe


Hi Frequency, Less Skipe
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Last edited by SeanK; 03-16-2013 at 02:26 PM.
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  #69  
Old 03-17-2013, 04:14 AM
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Hi sean, thanks for sharing your results.
Would say that the higher spike is best for desulphating, though probably something in between is best for charging and desulphating.
Yes the NTE2300 NPN transistor used here gets hot also when using anything much over 8 volts input, 6 volts input never gets hot.
Found this to be common with the joule thief type circuit, though sometimes, with the right coil, capacitor, transistor combo, can be greatly reduced at higher input voltages.
Not sure about the gate voltage, since not using a mosfet here.
Hope that helps for now.
peace love light
tyson
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  #70  
Old 03-17-2013, 07:59 AM
SeanK SeanK is offline
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Hi Tyson,

Hi Tyson, thanks for replying.
Sorry about the terminology... I meant base voltage and not gate voltage.

I also noticed that the transistor heats up at the higer frequency and is just luke warm on the lower frequency/bigger spike.

I still have much more testing to do. Just getting familiar with its operation. The 12v/100ah battery got up to 13.2 volts, but then over night lost some of that charge (11.38 after 6 hours resting). Ofcourse its a 14 year old battery.

My interest is two fold:
1. desulphate and condition my deep cycle lead acid batteries on the solar system
2. assess if I can charge more batteries with less power (i.e. 1AA -> 4AA)

My initial results iindicate tht 1AA -> 1AA does not work. So will try 1 -> 3 and see how that does.
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Last edited by SeanK; 03-17-2013 at 12:13 PM.
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  #71  
Old 03-27-2013, 09:10 AM
SeanK SeanK is offline
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Reconditioning NiMh & Alkaline

Thus far, its a slow process but:

1. a 100ah 1.2v Nimh battery (14 years old) takes about 8ah and over the past 3 days is steadily showing improvement (tiny). It discharges 120ma @1amp. This is close to 50% improvement from day 1. The input voltage is 12vdc.

2. a 9 volt battery is now keeping an LED lit for more than 10 mins (started with 2 mins).

Observations on 1:
The CAP size affects the spikes, frequency of the spike and current into the battery on charge and temperature of the transistor

So far 100nF seems to be a good all rounded value outputting about 1amp @140v to the charge battery.

Notes on 2:
This is a smaller toroid core driven by a 4.5volt battery pack.
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  #72  
Old 03-28-2013, 02:54 AM
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Hi sean, thanks for sharing.
Have never seen a 1.2 volt 100 amp hour nimh, what was it used in?
Sounds like it may be working good for you.
Any pictures of your setup, thanks.
peace love light
tyson
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  #73  
Old 04-28-2013, 12:35 PM
SeanK SeanK is offline
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large capacity NiMh batteries

Hi Tyson,
Sorry for such a late reply. I was revisiting the thread today only to notice that my reply was never posted.. strange.


screen shot pc


These NiMh batteries are 10 X 1.2v 100ah cells. They are used in my RAV4-Ev. You can't get them anymore. I am motivated to see if a radient charger can revive them.. so far no luck.

In the set up shown, on the left is the air core coil I am using. Recently I have switched to a 50 turn toroid which puts out abour 1000v @25K to see if that makes any difference. I have not measured the current yet..

Sean
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  #74  
Old 04-29-2013, 06:39 AM
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Hi sean, thanks for the pic and information.
From my experience, you'll need to use more current input and probably thicker gauge wire to handle it, maybe even multiple air cores setup like bedinis mutli pole, if you wish to still use air core that is.
It takes some powerful spikes to rejuvenate the size capacity you are trying to recover.
Hope that helps.
peace love light
tyson
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  #75  
Old 04-30-2013, 11:09 AM
SeanK SeanK is offline
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Reviving Large Capacity NiMh

Hi Tyson,
thanks for replying and your suggestion.
Its worth a shot as the batteries are not available anymore.
I'll try a ferrite core too. Would just changing the coil to a heavier guage wire pull more current or do you anticipate my having to play with the RC stage ?

sean
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  #76  
Old 04-30-2013, 07:43 PM
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Hi sean, thanks for reply.
You'd have to experiment with what thicker gauge would still oscillate, though do not think just one coil and transistor would do it for those large batteries.
A multistrand, multitransistor, meaning one transistor per strand, will probably be needed.
Don't know if air coil will still work in that setup, though with the capacitor to get it into oscillation, it probably will work.
A ferrite core should work well also.
I've tried rejuvenating a car battery once, though did not have a good multistrand, mulitransistor setup at the time, with good thickness copper (18-20awg.) to have much effect on it.
Hope that helps for now.
peace love light
tyson
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  #77  
Old 05-04-2013, 12:09 AM
Tvrepair Tvrepair is offline
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Capacitor

What is the purpose of the cap under the battery. What value is it ?
Thanks
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  #78  
Old 05-04-2013, 05:58 AM
SeanK SeanK is offline
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Cap under battery ?

Hi, please clarify if you're referring to the screen shot above.
If so, which cap, there is a lot of junk in the photo as I am trying lots of things.

sean
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  #79  
Old 05-04-2013, 02:47 PM
Tvrepair Tvrepair is offline
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Capacitor

Hi. The schematic shows a cap under the battery. I understand the rest of the schematic. Sorry if that is dense. Thanks
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  #80  
Old 05-04-2013, 08:22 PM
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Hi folks, hi tvrepair, the only capacitor in the circuit, is the one in parallel with the transistor base resistor, mine is 100nf capacitor.
Under the battery is a switch.
peace love light
tyson
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  #81  
Old 05-05-2013, 02:08 PM
Tvrepair Tvrepair is offline
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Nice charger

Have replicated circuit and it works per your discription. Transistor gets hotter than I like but was using garden variety audio amp trans T0 2 case, used 100n cap at base for best results. Will get higher freq trans and a better heat sink The diode was Schottky barrier diode works well NTE 579. 9 volt alkaline charged from 7.2 to 9.2 over night no over heating or damage. Have not worked with charged battery yet. I like the circuit.

Thanks
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  #82  
Old 05-06-2013, 07:13 AM
SeanK SeanK is offline
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Well done Tvrepair. I am now charging 9 volt alkaline batteries which don't seem to get hot. However, I notice that one of them is bulging at the base, so probably I over charged it.
The NiMh batteries I charge (AA size) start to get warm as they fill up, I think they can safely go to around 40c.

sean
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  #83  
Old 05-10-2013, 10:53 PM
Tvrepair Tvrepair is offline
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New transistor

Changed trans to 2SC5387 not as fast as the one recommended by Kelly. I have gone as high as 800 K and does not heat as much .
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  #84  
Old 05-13-2013, 10:40 PM
Tvrepair Tvrepair is offline
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2sc3552

Received 2sc3552 today charger runs much cooler. The voltage is about 150 volts on a 12 volt battery being charged. Circuit powered by 12 v power supply. I am very impressed . Great little circuit
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  #85  
Old 05-14-2013, 01:51 AM
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Hi folks, hi tvman, glad to hear it's working so well for you.
How are the charged batteries doing under load.
Still using my air coil charger almost everyday, best, cheapest charger i know of and recovers the batteries at the same time.
peace love light
tyson
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  #86  
Old 05-15-2013, 12:31 AM
Tvrepair Tvrepair is offline
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Charged batteries

The batteries seem to be as strong as new 9 volt alkaline . One ran a 60's circa radio for 6 hours no problem.
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  #87  
Old 05-15-2013, 07:11 AM
SeanK SeanK is offline
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Hi tyson, Tvrepair,
Great to see this working. It got me back to the circuit again.
Here's a recent observation:
the current draw (and heating up ) is related to teh charge battery and the cap being used.
So by changing caps you can get the circuit to run cool.
But if You use a different set of batteries, you have to retune.

I found with one configuration, I was pulling > 1 amp from the source and by changing the cap, got that down to 100ma. Ofcourse the output spike changes.
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  #88  
Old 05-15-2013, 07:41 PM
Tvrepair Tvrepair is offline
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Batteries

Yes I agree it seems to some how adjust to the voltage of the battery. The wave shape and frequency are effected by cap and resistor value. A 12 volt car battery has a 150 volt spike at about 125k hertz. I can post some scope shots if you like and I can figure out how.
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  #89  
Old 05-16-2013, 06:02 AM
SeanK SeanK is offline
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Hi Tvrepair,
would love to see your scope shots so I could compare.
I tried to charge 4 AA Alkaline batteries this morning, they got warm in about 20mins. Had to time to see what the SOC was.
The shape of the pulse would be nice to see and also the time between pulses on the scope.
Cheers
Sean
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  #90  
Old 01-18-2015, 12:30 PM
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Hi =)
I'm new in this very interesting forum.
Please help, and sorry for my english
Only this thread about "Alexkor" system here?
I have a some questions. In the PJK book, in chapter 7, we can see original scheme with one module (4 diodes). But there are another modified scheme see, where tree modules which contains 12 diodes summary, and one big capacitor C1 100uF 400v. If I put there 20 modules in parallel instead of 3, so what capacitor C1 must be there? 20 modules must give more power I think. Another moment with thyristor and neon tube. They will not die with 20 modules?
Thanks!

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