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  #31  
Old 08-24-2012, 01:09 AM
Nick_Z Nick_Z is offline
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SkyWatcher and All:
Interesting to see that you are charging batteries with High voltage.
I have been working with the Exciter circuits for a while now, and would be interested to see if they can further charge another battery, that will allow the two batteries to be swapped around. Similar to what we were doing with the Jtc.
My Exciter coils (various) may work for what you are trying to do. However, I think that trying to charge normal non-rechargeable batteries is not the best way to go. As they are not made for it, and can leak, and even blow up.
These higher voltage spikes have very little current to them, normally, and is the reason why the batteries that are being charged don't get hot. I have found that these batteries will not charge to the same degree, as they have voltage, but little current levels. Possibly conditioning them as you mention, can improve their performance.
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  #32  
Old 08-24-2012, 02:32 AM
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Hi nick, thanks for the reply.
I would say based so far on my recent tests and past tests of radiantly charging primary cells, in this case alkaline AA's, that plenty of current is there for the given cell type, though the capacity seems to be cut in half.
Though that is what my testing is for, to see if the capacity will get better or worse after multiple radiant recharge cycles.
I was pulling an average 250 milliamps or .5 watts from the 2 AA's in series, which is not terrible and is still of use for many devices.
I have never had a non-rechargeable cell leak or burst while charging radiantly, it seems though that as jdove mentioned, that aluminum casings may cause them to leak, as that happened to me for some reason as well in an aluminum casing led flashlight and it could be that the radiant charge i was giving the cells at the time, contained to much hot current, which could have caused the leakage pressure.
I for some reason, have a feeling that experimenting with these alkaline cells, may yield further insight into radiant charging.
peace love light
tyson
edit: here is a website link, showing tests with the rayovac AA alkalines im testing.
Prism Glow - Rayovac AA Batteries Energy Test
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  #33  
Old 08-24-2012, 10:02 AM
holtage holtage is offline
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battery or the circuit?

ok. but i still have questions: you mean to use the circuit to power an air conditioner OR to use the circuit to charge batteries and then use the batteries to power an air conditioner. which one are you to be meant?

Also, you use the circuit to charge AA alkaline batteries, can AA alkaline batteries replace sealed lead-acid batteries to power a load like anair conditioner or not?
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  #34  
Old 08-24-2012, 05:07 PM
Nick_Z Nick_Z is offline
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SW:
After years of charging all kinds of AA batteries of different types, I find that All non-rechargeables can be made to leak by simply charging them in a normal way using regular conventional AA chargers. They are made that way on purpose, so that they can't be safely charged. However, charging a D size "heavy duty" type battery (without overcharging them), or by using pulses, can still provide quite a bit of useable power, before having to throw them in the trash. D size cells have 10.000 mA, and so even if only half of that amount comes back with a regular charger, a solar charge, or pulse charge, that is still a lot of useable power, at least for a few charging cycles. 4 D size batteries contain 40.000 mA. and take the same effort charge as 4 AAs. But, for testing purposes, the smaller batteries can be used.
Wireless phone batteries (3.6v) work great, and won't leak, explode, or cause any problems. Lead acid batteries also work fine, but are delicate to constant charging and discharge cycles.
I have not tried to charge batteries of any kind with the Exciter set up, so I'll give that a try, just to see what happens. I do think that there is more than meets the eye, when using radiant pulses.
Good luck with your tests, and please keep us informed.
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  #35  
Old 08-24-2012, 06:27 PM
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Hi nickz, thanks for the reply, good information and yes I agree about the regular charging aspect of these cells and that they are built that way to make people go out and buy more, quicker.
This alexkor setup is not exactly an exciter, though similar I imagine.
Though the frequency of pulses must be over, at the very least 200khz and very short pulse width, though I have no scope to confirm that.
The frequency helps i am sure, though i feel it is the very short pulse width due to this high frequency, that is really doing the trick with these cells.
I am making another (3rd) recharge cycle with these 2 AA alkalines.
The thing is, a guess for now, that if this circuit causes no heat in the cell when charging, then I theorize that the cells will last many more charge cycles than most have seen with these type cells.
Hi holtage, yes to all questions.
peace love light
tyson
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  #36  
Old 08-24-2012, 07:13 PM
j dove j dove is offline
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Radiant Energy Battery Charger / Aa Cells

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi folks, Hi jdove, thanks for the reply.
Ok, that is good to know, i will make more recharge tests and see what happens with these alkalines, for better or worse.
Hi ewizard, yes, that is what i meant, then again, this circuit still could work and charge batteries and power an A.C. unit, it would just take awhile and probably not be very practical unless scaled up in power.
Then again, maybe some other form of more efficient air conditioning might be used, like evaporative cooling, where only a blower fan is needed.
I have a thought to build a larger one of these single layer bifilar air core coils, like the size of some of the large slayer towers, bifilar of course.
Though the frequency will probably lower a bit, would be interesting to see the effects of such a large tower coil.
peace love light
tyson
Hi SKY WATCHER

If you want to maintain frequency to your charge battery with a larger coil design you could make a pwm discharge control circuit like i use on my device, that way the coil can still resonate at its operating frequency and your can tune to the frequency that the battery needs for best charge cycle.
It' s just a thought ; see how quick it gets complex. Anyway please keep me posted with your progress, oh buy the way i got 12 vdc worth of AA recharged today it took 17 hrs but they are at above full charge ; the low end is 1.58 vdc to the high end of 1.73 vdc; all have full power after overnite rest on the voltage check , i use them in standard flashlight bulbs and they are very bright .
Frequency is the key to the recharge with this type of energy.

cheers

JEFF
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  #37  
Old 08-25-2012, 12:32 AM
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Hi jdove, thanks for sharing.
That sounds like an idea, a good possibility to control frequency.
Is your 12 volt AA pack, rechargeable kind or primary non-rechargeables.
Also, I'm curious as to what kind of mah or capacity(duration) you get from those, I have been discharging to .9 volts per cell for my capacity tests and i get so far, just under 50% capacity, thanks.
peace love light
tyson
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  #38  
Old 08-25-2012, 06:26 AM
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Hi folks, just finished the 4th charge and discharge cycle, with the 2 AA alkalines in series, using the same 10 ohm resistor load.
The capacity is increasing and the average voltage is higher than last cycle.
These tests would probably have been better, if i had brand new alkalines, still good for results though.
This seems encouraging so far to me, what you folks think.
I will continue to make charge cycles until i see the results either plateauing or declining, hopefully they keep going up in capacity.
peace love light
tyson
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  #39  
Old 08-25-2012, 04:40 PM
Nick_Z Nick_Z is offline
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SW:
We know from previous tests that regular AA batteries will lose their ability to take a charge with further charging cycles, so why not use a couple of new rechargeable batteries to avoid that problem. They do not cost very much, and will give you more accurate results.
The small 4v, 0.5ah lead acid batteries would be ideal, again they are not expensive to buy. I use 4 of them in parallel with the solar cells from outdoor lights, that we had looked into previously. I used them on my Exciter to make it into a solar Exciter circuit. But, I have been disappointed with the solar cell charging output from these outdoor lights, though.
You may also want to try the regular heavy duty primary batteries (D cells), as they are not based on an alkaline source but on carbon instead. Carbon can be used and charged over and over again, although it will also contaminate in time from the internal hydrogen gas production.
The small lead acid batteries would probably be the best way to go on these HV charging tests.
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  #40  
Old 08-25-2012, 09:29 PM
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Hi nick, thanks for the reply.
Thing is, I am briefly taking a side road with testing these primary alkaline cells.
I have been recharging lead acid and nimh as well, though I am waiting to see how many charges I can get out of these alkalines and how the capacity either improves or not.
peace love light
tyson
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  #41  
Old 08-26-2012, 12:04 PM
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Hi folks, I was reading another website on alkalines and I did not realize, that the typical fully charged resting voltage of an alkaline cell is around 1.65-1.7 volts.
I will now be charging to a higher voltage based on this information, I was charging to 1.8 volts, now it will be to 1.9volts, to see how the capacity improves.
I should also mention, that the latest charge test finished and the cells reached the 1.8 volt per cell under charge load much quicker than before, though I am going to put them on charge again and bring them up higher.
Certainly, encouraging results in my view.
peace love light
tyson
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  #42  
Old 08-27-2012, 04:50 PM
holtage holtage is offline
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Please explain the working principle of Alexkor circuit

Hi, Skywatcher!

Are the four 12 volt 12 ampere hour SLA(sealed lead-acid) batteries charge the 12 volt 8 ampere hour SLA(sealed lead-acid) battery?

OR

Is the 12 volt 8 ampere hour SLA(sealed lead-acid) battery charge the four 12 volt 12 ampere hour SLA(sealed lead-acid) batteries?

If the four 12 volt 12 ampere hour batteries are being charged, where did the energy of the 12 volt 8 ampere hour battery come from? From the radiant air core or the charge plug specifically made to charge the 12 volt 8 ampere hour battery? And Vice versa.
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  #43  
Old 08-27-2012, 05:07 PM
Nick_Z Nick_Z is offline
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Tyson:
Yesterday I put a dead AA alkaline battery to charge from my Exciter circuit to see what it would do. The dead alkaline was first placed to run on a Jtc to the point of showing hardly no light output on the led. The first time I only charged the regular AA for a hour, or so, from the HV secondary on the Exciter circuit. And afterwards discharged it on my Jtc until is was dim, but not dead. That took about two hours time, from a one hour charge.
The second charge was about two hours charging, and the AA was charged and was providing very good light output from the Jtc. which lasted about 3 hours time.
The output from the Exciter is only showing 4.5 volts, same as its input source (cell phone charger), yet plasma is present on the secondary output wire end, and it is giving the RF burns also. So, the volt/amp meter is not telling all, however what I'm concerned about it that the circuit may only be charging the same or similar to a normal AA charger. No better, and no worse. Probably more test are in order.
Nick
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  #44  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:04 AM
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Hi nick, thanks for the reply.
My past tests with charging alkalines or carbon primary cells with a standard charger or one similar, always resulted in some heat in the cell and a fairly quick loss of capacity after only a few charge cycles.
However, this air core coil radiant setup, is now on its 6th charge-discharge cycle, showing improvements in average voltage and capacity, though as said, the capacity is lower than a fresh store bought cell, for now.
I am going to continue these charge cycle tests on these 2 AA alkaline cells until I'm silver haired if need be, so we will all then know how reliably we can reuse these alkaline cells, maybe carbon cells will be my next tests.
peace love light
tyson

edit: just finished 6th charge cycle and it seems one of the AA cells has started to falter, whereas the other one has not, it is possible i over charged them, maybe 1.8 volts under charge should be the limit. I will start charge cycling a different set of identical AA alkalines and charge to only 1.8 volts and see if either of the cells start to lose capacity.
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  #45  
Old 08-28-2012, 02:50 AM
Nick_Z Nick_Z is offline
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New alkaline AA batteries are about 1.6v and 1500mA. The rechargeable AAs (cheaper ones) are only 1.2v and 600 mA, so there is a bit of difference there.
But, the charging voltage and current also makes a difference in how long they'll run after a charge. Using the 2000 to 2700 mA AA rechargeables would of course be best. But, for these test on charging with HV, any will work. You may find that charging regular AA batteries to full capacity will make them leak, in time. So what, just throw them away and use another, they work fine for several cycles. Even if they leak a bit, they can just be washed out, and still get some more use out of them.
I'm still curious to see how they'll handle the HV though. I'll charge the alkaline all night and see what happens. It has some goodies in it, like Mercury and cadmium. Nice! I hope it can take it...
I really can't tell if I'm charging it with the 4.5v, that the meter is reading, or with the higher voltage, low current the Exciter actually puts out. In any case it does seam to work good after the charge, and does not get hot, so far.
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  #46  
Old 08-28-2012, 03:36 AM
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Hi nick, thanks for the informative reply.
Yes, so with those other AA's i was testing, 5 extra charge cycles at half capacity is not too bad and with no leakage.
Will see what happens to these other two.
I did not know that these alkalines have mercury and cadmium in them.
Well that changes things a bit, meaning to me, that unless I have these already on hand or used, I am only buying nimh in future.
Even though i think i read that already, thanks for reminding me that these are poison.
peace love light
tyson
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  #47  
Old 10-17-2012, 03:43 PM
holtage holtage is offline
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How is your air core coil made? (The Alexkor Air Core Coil Radiant Charger)

Hi, Skywatcher. I want to ask you a question.
In this thread, you make a Alexkor circuit. I don't know How to wind the coil onto the air core, can you tell me how to wind the coil onto the air core, and if you can, give a photo of your air core to let me see how it looks like? Thanks!
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  #48  
Old 10-17-2012, 05:43 PM
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Hi holtage, a picture is in the first post of this thread.
Used heavier duty cardboard tube (6" length X 1-3/8" diameter) from used up plastic wrap roll.
Used 24awg. bifilar (2 strands) magnet wire and taped the ends.
Still use this charger almost everyday, as it charges the smaller size cells very well, as well as 7AH size and rejuvenates them at the same time.
Have a couple different wall transformers for different voltages, depending on cell type to be charged.
Hope that helps, any other questions, just ask.
peace love light
tyson
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  #49  
Old 10-21-2012, 09:14 PM
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Hi luno, thank you very much for that web forum link, translating all the russian text to English right now, to gather more information.
One thing for sure, almost any cell type seems to love the high frequency, high voltage, low current spikes of this air coil radiant charger.
AA nicads and AA nimh that should have been thrown out years ago, i kept for some reason, this charger is bringing back to life dozens of AA rechargeable cells, that most other radiant pulse chargers would not rejuvenate like this one can.
Of course it also works on pretty much any other type of cell also, even alkaline, etc.
This air coil charger is the main charger in use here, since it rejuvenates so well.
Will be trying to improve the output for faster charging of larger batteries and hope to gain some insights from that Russian forum, thanks again luno.
peace love light
tyson
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  #50  
Old 10-22-2012, 02:05 PM
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Hello all. I've been experimenting with this type of pulse charger for the past few days and I thought I'd share my results. I used only what I had in hand at the moment. I drive the transistor using a 555 timer IC at 687Hz and 52% duty cycle. I attach the schematic and a picture of my setup. The coil is from leftover 0.45mm(AWG #25) magnet wire about 10 Ohms resistance, single-filar, air-core, sloppily wound. I use two relatively new SLA 12V 1.3Ah batteries, witch are conditioned from a bedini fan for about 10 charge-discharge cycles. Before the test one battery was charged to 14.5V and the other was driven down to 11.2V. Resting voltages were 12.79V for drive battery and 11.96V for charge battery. After 2h17min drive battery droped to 11.20V and charging voltage on the second battery was 12.69V. Resting voltages (after a few hours) were 12.10V for drive battery and 12.29V for charge battery. Amp draw from the drive battery registered at ~70mA which is obviously not accurate. During the charging the batteries and the transistor remained cool while the coil got just a little warm. Next day I swapped the batteries and repeated the experiment. Resting voltages were now 12.27V for drive battery and 12.14V for charge battery. After 47min they went to 11.20V and 12.59V charging voltage respectively. Resting voltage settled at 11.98V and 12.26V.
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  #51  
Old 10-22-2012, 07:46 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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Skywatcher did you try that charge on big 12v batteries?
Thanks
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  #52  
Old 10-22-2012, 09:08 PM
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Hi folks, Hi guruji, only have 12volt-7ah on hand and it does charge those very well also and is NOT a fluff charge, it is solid.
Next step might be to try a multistrand coil with transistor for each strand, though not sure if that will affect frequency and performance.
Maybe just separate air coils with all flyback diode outputs merged into one output might work.
Even still, this works fine as is, just takes longer to charge the bigger batteries.
peace love light
tyson
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  #53  
Old 10-27-2012, 09:51 AM
harctan harctan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harctan View Post
Hello all. I've been experimenting with this type of pulse charger for the past few days and I thought I'd share my results. I used only what I had in hand at the moment. I drive the transistor using a 555 timer IC at 687Hz and 52% duty cycle. I attach the schematic and a picture of my setup. The coil is from leftover 0.45mm(AWG #25) magnet wire about 10 Ohms resistance, single-filar, air-core, sloppily wound. I use two relatively new SLA 12V 1.3Ah batteries, witch are conditioned from a bedini fan for about 10 charge-discharge cycles. Before the test one battery was charged to 14.5V and the other was driven down to 11.2V. Resting voltages were 12.79V for drive battery and 11.96V for charge battery. After 2h17min drive battery droped to 11.20V and charging voltage on the second battery was 12.69V. Resting voltages (after a few hours) were 12.10V for drive battery and 12.29V for charge battery. Amp draw from the drive battery registered at ~70mA which is obviously not accurate. During the charging the batteries and the transistor remained cool while the coil got just a little warm. Next day I swapped the batteries and repeated the experiment. Resting voltages were now 12.27V for drive battery and 12.14V for charge battery. After 47min they went to 11.20V and 12.59V charging voltage respectively. Resting voltage settled at 11.98V and 12.26V.
I repeated the same experiment but now I increased the frequency from 680Hz to 3.5kHz which gave me better results. Starting voltages for drive and charge battery where 12.90V and 11.84V respectively. After about 10 hours they reached 11.20V and 12.82V and they settled at resting voltages of 11.82V and 12.40V. I swapped the batteries and now it took 5:30 hours for the primary battery to drop to 11.20V while the charge battery reached 12.52V. Final resting voltages were 11.79V and 12.20V. During this test the batteries, transistor and coil remained cool.
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  #54  
Old 02-06-2013, 09:27 AM
SeanK SeanK is offline
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Which coil yielded better results

Hi Tyson,
In you initial posts you mentioned you made the Alexkor circuit coil with more turns than shown in his original circuit. Did your coil yield better results ?
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  #55  
Old 02-07-2013, 05:51 AM
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Hi sean, thanks for the reply.
From memory, think the larger turn 24awg. coil did not have the same charge rate, though not sure if it was more efficient or not.
Still using the same air coil charger for months now, to recharge all AA's used here and the AA rechargeables are doing very well under this type of charging.
Though would like to make a larger air coil, with something like 18 gauge and just keep wrapping turns until the same 1.5 or so ohms is reached.
Would be interesting to see if all that added copper mass would add any benefits to charging the cells.
peace love light
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:12 PM
SeanK SeanK is offline
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I am particularly interested in replicating this. I have a 48v battery bank (~350AH) and would be cool to charge from 12 V. I also have a 280v 100AH NiMh bank. Wondering if I could scale such a charger up to that voltage.
I'll start with AA size . PK's book, suggested scaling up with more drive circuits and coils. IS more copper expected to yield more A/Pulse or more V/Pulse ?
Its awesome you're so open to sharing. Thanks alot.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:10 AM
SeanK SeanK is offline
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Hi Tyson, many thanks for your continued encouragement and inspiration throughout this forum. I see so many wonderful post from you, its really exciting.

I made the coil using a 1/2 inch pvc conduit (~1.9omhs) and am using IN5006 as the diode with a BU2508A which I ripped from an old monitor. Results are not so great -- horrible actually.
You placed two HER303s in series in your setup (initial version) and I was wondering why you did that ?
Is that across the collector and the secondary battery +?
Sean
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  #58  
Old 02-15-2013, 10:32 AM
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Hi sean, thanks for the reply.
The coil used here, is on a 1-1/4" diameter cardboard tube, 5 inch long coil and is using 24 awg. bifilar.
The base resistor also has a 100 nanofarad capacitor in parallel with it, because it would not oscillate without it.
So, check to see if your coil is even oscillating.
Maybe charge a small capacitor to see if the voltage is rising above the input voltage, that should tell you if it is oscillating, since you probably can't hear the high frequency.
Found your transistor online, that seems like it will work good, though could not find information about that 1n5006 diode.
You'll need a fast (reverse recovery time) diode for good charging, 50 nanoseconds or less, as even if your coil is oscillating, if it is a slow diode, you will see poor performance or charging.
Hope that helps for now.
peace love light

edit: the diode is off the collector to positive of charge battery and the other end of coil is to negative of charge battery, using this NPN transistor
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Last edited by SkyWatcher; 02-15-2013 at 10:36 AM.
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  #59  
Old 02-15-2013, 11:52 AM
SeanK SeanK is offline
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Many thanks for your reply Tyson.
Got my oscilloscope today( OWON PDS6062 ) Hoping it will help with my experiments.
Just to clarify:
The 100nF is in place of the 2700pF in the diagram at the start of this thread ?
Is the "test" charge cap to be placed where the charge battery would go ? (sorry if these are silly questions, I'll get it eventually).
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Last edited by SeanK; 02-15-2013 at 12:18 PM.
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  #60  
Old 02-16-2013, 01:15 AM
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Hi sean, thanks for the reply.
The 100 nanofarad replaces the 2700pf, at least in this setup, yours may need a different value capacitor, have a bunch around here to try, from all sorts of gutted devices, like cfl's, etc..
Yes, the test charge capacitor would be placed where the charge battery would be, though maybe the oscilliscope will also tell you if it is oscillating, if it's fast enough to see the spikes.
The only silly question, is one that is not asked.
peace love light
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