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  #181  
Old 11-16-2012, 11:40 AM
Gav Gav is offline
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good idea GSM
air waves was a bad use of words i agree, radio stations was an example of the fact that the air is nowdays "alive"? just as tesla intended it to be. tesla did say his tower was a capacitor that was ment to be covered in armour plates that were never installed as it was never finnished
the frame was timber and the tower was off the ground so as it would not leak back to the earth, it was never ment to shoot bolts of lightning into the air as most think
i have a video of my new device, i still dont have a voltage meter but you can see the sparks it makes, ill post it so people can see how easy it really is, ive nic named it my hurry curry device as it has blown up everything ive hooked up to it its a bit dangerous but shows its easy to do, someone with knowlage can make it usable but without a meter i have left it dissconnected and have not done anything with it
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  #182  
Old 11-17-2012, 10:44 AM
Hobby Eon Hobby Eon is offline
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More is needed.

Ernst gave us a usefull key. But it wasn't the missing key afterall.
There must be another key-element since the device built to the
latest key doesn't display any o.u. And that is demotivating.
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  #183  
Old 11-17-2012, 02:30 PM
Hobby Eon Hobby Eon is offline
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I thought about it..

And suddenly i thought : .. (fcuk) ".. don't kill the dipole.. " ?
Is that it ??
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  #184  
Old 11-17-2012, 11:59 PM
TeslaSecrets TeslaSecrets is offline
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I know my posts are long and seem off topic, but I feel understanding Tesla requires us to consider the less popular topics, such as the social, religious or spiritual implications of knowledge. Our failure to do so is definitely part of the reason we do not fully understand, but I will return to a more practical discussion.

I too think about this concept of "not killing the dipole" but I do not get it. As soon as we tap power, in electric current, we kill the dipole, so how can we get power and current without killing the dipole? Perhaps the energy maintaining the dipole can be greater than the energy drawn off which kills the dipole? Or is there another way to transform the potential of a dipole into useful work?

Perhaps there is a cycle where we establish than destroy the dipole, but in a more harmonic process, which does not waste so much energy?

In regards to the medium for electromagnetic waves, from my researches it appears there are still two separate camps on this matter in physics. Many scientists seem to have gone from ether, to no ether, and now many are back onto the ether again. Except this time, they speak of a much different ether than the luminiferous ether of days past.

The ether seems to posses similar properties to an incompressible, super-fluid, in which information exchange may or may not be limited to the speed of light. Under this theory mass is only a specific form of energy( field energy ) and not all energy, becomes mass. So too these theories imply what we think of as empty space, is not really empty. They go on to suggest, everything is our Universe, is simple motion of this medium.

I do not want to start a ether/no ether debate here, just point out there are more scientists supporting the concept of an ether, everyday.

Consider this paper:
http://www.ovaltech.ca/pdfss/ZPE_Mec...f_englisch.pdf

If there is some type of superfluid, incompressible, medium in space, then we have a much better match to what Tesla suggested in his "Dynamic Theory of Gravity". These new theories likewise seem to support much of what Walter Russell, Schauberger, Reich, Moray, Searl and so many others have been saying all along. The same concept would seem to apply to much of what the ancients were talking about and gives great insight into what exactly they were doing.

Some form of high frequency vibration or energy exists, which can be rectified and stepped down into frequencies similar to our current electrical power. I would here add, we cannot assume this source is an electrical or magnetic vibration, although this is the result we get out.
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  #185  
Old 11-18-2012, 12:03 AM
TeslaSecrets TeslaSecrets is offline
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I read an analogy once, "capturing this energy is like trying to capture water with a fishing net"
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  #186  
Old 11-18-2012, 12:34 AM
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What dipole?



And in what way "how Tesla intended it to be"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikola Tesla
The Future of the Wireless Art

A mass in movement resists change of direction. So does the world oppose a new idea. It takes time to make up the minds to its value and importance. Ignorance, prejudice and inertia of the old retard its early progress. It is discredited by insincere exponents and selfish exploiters. It is attacked and condemned by its enemies. Eventually, though, all barriers are thrown down, and it spreads like fire. This will also prove true of the wireless art.

The practical applications of this revolutionary principle have only begun. So far they have been confined to the use of oscillations which are quickly damped out in their passage through the medium. Still, even this has commanded universal attention. What will be achieved by waves which do not diminish with distance, baffles comprehension.

It is difficult for a layman to grasp how an electric current can be propagated to distances of thousands of miles without diminution of intention. But it is simple after all. Distance is only a relative conception, a reflection in the mind of physical limitation. A view of electrical phenomena must be free of this delusive impression. However surprising, it is a fact that a sphere of the size of a little marble offers a greater impediment to the passage of a current than the whole earth. Every experiment, then, which can be performed with such a small sphere can likewise be carried out, and much more perfectly, with the immense globe on which we live. This is not merely a theory, but a truth established in numerous and carefully conducted experiments. When the earth is struck mechanically, as is the case in some powerful terrestrial upheaval, it vibrates like a bell, its period being measured in hours. When it is struck electrically, the charge oscillates, approximately, twelve times a second. By impressing upon it current waves of certain lengths, definitely related to its diameter, the globe is thrown into resonant vibration like a wire, stationary waves forming, the nodal and ventral regions of which can be located with mathematical precision. Owing to this fact and the spheroidal shape of the earth, numerous geodetical and other data, very accurate and of the greatest scientific and practical value, can be readily secured. Through the observation of these astonishing phenomena we shall soon be able to determine the exact diameter of the planet, its configuration and volume, the extent of its elevations and depressions, and to measure, with great precision and with nothing more than an electrical device, all terrestrial distances. In the densest fog or darkness of night, without a compass or other instruments of orientation, or a timepiece, it will be possible to guide a vessel along the shortest or orthodromic path, to instantly read the latitude and longitude, the hour, the distance from any point, and the true speed and direction of movement. By proper use of such disturbances a wave may be made to travel over the earth's surface with any velocity desired, and an electrical effect produced at any spot which can be selected at will and the geographical position of which can be closely ascertained from simple rules of trigonometry.

This mode of conveying electrical energy to a distance is not 'wireless' in the popular sense, but a transmission through a conductor, and one which is incomparably more perfect than any artificial one. All impediments of conduction arise from confinement of the electric and magnetic fluxes to narrow channels. The globe is free of such cramping and hinderment. It is an ideal conductor because of its immensity, isolation in space, and geometrical form. Its singleness is only an apparent limitation, for by impressing upon it numerous non-interfering vibrations, the flow of energy may be directed through any number of paths which, though bodily connected, are yet perfectly distinct and separate like ever so many cables. Any apparatus, then, which can be operated through one or more wires, at distances obviously limited, can likewise be worked without artificial conductors, and with the same facility and precision, at distances without limit other than that imposed by the physical dimensions of the globe.

It is intended to give practical demonstrations of these principles with the plant illustrated. As soon as completed, it will be possible for a business man in New York to dictate instructions, and have them instantly appear in type at his office in London or elsewhere. He will be able to call up, from his desk, and talk to any telephone subscriber on the globe, without any change whatever in the existing equipment. An inexpensive instrument, not bigger than a watch, will enable its bearer to hear anywhere, on sea or land, music or song, the speech of a political leader, the address of an eminent man of science, or the sermon of an eloquent clergyman, delivered in some other place, however distant. In the same manner any picture, character, drawing, or print can be transferred from one to another place. Millions of such instruments can be operated from but one plant of this kind. More important than all of this, however, will be the transmission of power, without wires, which will be shown on a scale large enough to carry conviction. These few indications will be sufficient to show that the wireless art offers greater possibilities than any invention or discovery heretofore made, and if the conditions are favorable, we can expect with certitude that in the next few years wonders will be wrought by its application.

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  #187  
Old 11-18-2012, 01:15 AM
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Just some thoughts to share in which direction I am searching:
Quote:
Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by a power obtainable at any point of the universe. This idea is not novel. Men have been led to it long ago by instinct or reason; it has been expressed in many ways, and in many places, in the history of old and new. We find it in the delightful myth of Antheus, who derives power from the earth; we find it among the subtle speculations of one of your splendid mathematicians and in many hints and statements of thinkers of the present time. Throughout space there is energy. Is this energy static or kinetic? If static our hopes are in vain; if kinetic—and this we know it is, for certain—then it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of nature. Of all, living or dead, Crookes came nearest to doing it. His radiometer will turn in the light of day and in the darkness of the night; it will turn everywhere where there is heat, and heat is everywhere. But, unfortunately, this beautiful little machine, while it goes down to posterity as the most interesting, must likewise be put on record as the most inefficient machine ever invented!
(we all know where this comes from)

I have highlighted a few points of interest.
1 - the power(source) that we are looking for is everywhere.
2 - I am not an native english speaker, but the word 'delightful' strikes me as misplaced here. What is so delightful about a story of a giant who kills everyone who tries to get past him and collects their skulls to build a temple. I have noticed that Tesla uses this kind of phrases throughout his work; 'perfectly wonderful', 'this is very important', etc. I think this connects parts of his work in some way.
3 - deriving power from the earth; wasn't the magnifying transmitter a machine to excite the earth?
4 - at various places we see Tesla mentioning static and dynamic/kinetic energy. In the article ('the problem of .... energy') he mentioned that energy differs from water in that it can be converted from one form into another. And that this is the key principle on which his machine operates. We also read here that the energy source that he is considering is a source of kinetic/dynamic energy and that this is the sole reason why his plan would work. He also says that in a coil electric energy is converted from static to dynamic and vice versa. (when he mentions that in a resonating coil at some points there is a high voltage and low current and vice versa)
5 - the last paragraph is often ommited by people who quote this text, but the Crookes radiometer could be another key. This radiometer runs on heat, and in the before mentioned article Tesla is also talking about obtaining heat-energy (although I still believe this is intended as an analogue for static electricity). The fact that Tesla uses the term 'inefficient' here also alerts me. Tesla spend most of his time making his apparatus as efficient as possible, it almost looks like a neurotic tendency that whereever he saw something 'inefficient' he had to do something about it.

Well, still trying to crack the code....

Ernst.
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  #188  
Old 11-20-2012, 12:04 AM
TeslaSecrets TeslaSecrets is offline
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Thanks dR-green, yes that was staring me right in the face wasn't it.
I understand how we can have power without destroying the dipole now.

Let me summarize some information here about Wardenclyffe and its likely frequency of operation. I think this connects some of what I spoke of before in a clearer fashion.

Tesla is credited with discovering the Schumann Resonance or frequency, which is currently given a value of between 7 and 8 hertz depending on who you reference.

Realize this number can be plugged into the formula:

velocity = frequency * wavelength

We can thus calculate wavelength as:

wavelength = velocity / frequency

We know the velocity is the speed of light ( 2.99 E 8 and frequency is 8 Hz.

This gives us wavelength equal to approximately 37375000 meters.

Since this wave is traveling around the spherical earth, we can divided by PI to get the diameter of this circular path.

37375000 / PI = 11896832 meters as the diameter of the circular path.

In kilometers this is approximately 12,000 kms, the approximate diameter of the Earth.

This is not made up mathematics. It is very well known we can calculate the approximate radius or diameter of the Earth, knowing the Schumann Resonance Fundamental Frequency. Tesla refers to this ability of his tower to measure distance.

In order to utilize the spherical shape of the earth to transmit power, Wardenclyffe would have absolutely been required to resonant with one of the Schumann Resonant frequencies. It is admitted Tesla was the first to discover this frequency, placing it at about 8 Hz.

This low frequency energy may represent a significant amount of power, if it were possible to capture it and step up the frequency to a more useful value.

Interestingly lightning is considered responsible for the amount of energy naturally within the Schumann Cavity. I suppose it would make sense that in order to tap the power of lightning, we would need a device which can recreate the power of lightning, and is tuned to the same exact frequencies as the lightning discharge energy. In this way we can get power from lightning strikes, by tapping all lightning strokes total energy contribution to the Schumann Cavity. The brief high power energy of each lightning stroke is distributed throughout the whole Schumann Cavity, which we can tap into to get some of the power from the lightning strokes. In this fashion, we could use the Schumann cavity as a mechanism for capturing the energy of lightning.

However, this is power from low frequencies, I do not understand why Tesla and so many others spoke of high frequencies. Perhaps the energy for the lightning strike itself, comes from higher frequency energy? Eventually Tesla realized a way to tap the higher frequency energy directly, without need for transmission at all?
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  #189  
Old 11-20-2012, 12:16 AM
TeslaSecrets TeslaSecrets is offline
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I do not really see any reason why the Egyptians could not have performed this simple calculation themselves. They would have only needed to know the Schumann Resonance frequency 8Hz and the Diameter of the Earth, to get a rough approximation for the speed of light. It seems highly coincidental we can get a value for the diameter of the Earth from the dimensions of the pyramid.

I would be really curious as to whether or not the musical note F# ( which has been measured on sound spectrum analyzers within the inner chambers ) is a higher harmonic of the Schumann resonance. In that the entire structure was built to resonate with the Fundamental Schumann Resonance, much like Wardenclyffe.

Can we assume capacitors and coils are the only way we might interact with the energy within the Schumann cavity??
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  #190  
Old 11-20-2012, 12:32 AM
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All things "Tesla" are derived from observing and understanding nature, or in other words observing the behaviour of any given aspect of the universe. How did he do this? Through using and developing the systems that he openly talked about. It would therefore be reasonable to conclude that one may come to the same conclusions, and observe the same effects, through using the same systems, and more importantly thinking along the same lines. A short cut is not the same path, and along the short cut you will not observe the same sights. A short cut goes under the mountain and through darkness, while the scenic route has an abundance of light and sights to behold. You are looking for "free energy", Tesla was not. He was attempting to transmit signals and power efficiently, the rest is a consequence. And as far as "free energy" is concerned, a highly questionable consequence at that, since Tesla never claimed it. Free energy "for the consumer" is an entirely different matter and rather than being dependant on science and technology, is determined by a simple agreement between two or more humans. The concept of "free energy" in terms of his "self-acting machine" is an entirely different thing. Who is responsible for merging these ideas into one, Tesla, or a disinformant?

Although I don't rule out the possibility of simple "oscillations" of one (natural) system adding to another (artificial) system in a beneficial way. But if you are trying to understand Tesla, then it should be kept in mind that this certainly wouldn't have been his intention from day one. How would he know of it if he hadn't done prior experiments? The search for "free energy" keeps people distracted for sure.
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  #191  
Old 11-20-2012, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeslaSecrets View Post
I would be really curious as to whether or not the musical note F# ( which has been measured on sound spectrum analyzers within the inner chambers ) is a higher harmonic of the Schumann resonance.
Which F#? There are lots of them. Also Tesla estimated earth's resonance to be approx 12 cycles/sec.

[edit] F#-1 = 11.5625 cycles/sec
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  #192  
Old 11-20-2012, 01:10 AM
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Yesterday I connected a small receiver to ground and scoped the output coil
while a storm approached. I could see on the scope lots of disturbance from
the lightning. There appears to be a brief disturbance of static type noise just
prior to the lightning, I put this down to interference caused by the leaders
forming just before the strike. Then when the strike happens the oscillations
gain power for a bit. I was able to collect some energy from the storm in a
capacitor, I charged it to 250 mV 200 uF while I was scoping the output
coil to the cap.

I observed Beats within the constantly changing wave form, the radio signal
was wiped out during the storm, by listening to the speaker using an amplifier
on the output coil i could tell when a lightning strike was about to hit because
of the (leader noise).

With the little receiver I built if I input about 1 volt point to point to the
ground lead (bottom of the secondary via just one connection) I get a few
volts from the output coil. So if I put 1 volt into 400 turns I get 2 or 3 volts
from the 10 turn output coil. Cool. So much for stepping down the voltage.

The reality is that the oscillations from the lightning have little amplitude so to
get any useful power from them there must be a huge magnification to
concentrate that power. If the Earth oscillations were in the range of 10 volts
or so it would be easy to tap the energy. Wardenclyffe was to vibrate the
planet to increase the oscillations to a usable level. Then anyone could
connect a receiver to the ground and tap the vibrations. It could not be
policed for small scale uses (metered) but large consumers (industry) could
have the power used metered because they wouldn't be able to hide it.

Some peaks of energy could add to a Tesla system's usable energy if they
exceeded the potential of the ground disturbance and added to it, in reality
50% of lightning strikes would be out of phase and cancel usable
energy/power from the system.

Here's a picture of the small portable receiver I built, It tunes between about
660 kHz and 860 kHz. I chose to not use a variable capacitor in the primary
because i might use it for some HV experiments so the tuning for the primary
is done with the two variable inductors, the oscillating circuit can have
capacitance added to the terminal as well as some adjustment with the plate
also there is a variable inductor between the secondary and ground
connection. I can listen to the radio station at 840 Khz with it.
It's a bit rough and dodgy but it works, gotta test what works and what
doesn't for us.



Cheers
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  #193  
Old 11-20-2012, 10:08 AM
Ernst Ernst is offline
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dR-Green, you say:
Quote:
The concept of "free energy" in terms of his "self-acting machine" is an entirely different thing. Who is responsible for merging these ideas into one, Tesla, or a disinformant?

Although I don't rule out the possibility of simple "oscillations" of one (natural) system adding to another (artificial) system in a beneficial way. But if you are trying to understand Tesla, then it should be kept in mind that this certainly wouldn't have been his intention from day one. How would he know of it if he hadn't done prior experiments? The search for "free energy" keeps people distracted for sure.
Please read the article that I started this thread with. You will find Tesla saying:
Quote:
This conclusion I reached, I think, in the latter part of 1883, ...
Refering to the possibility of a self-acting machine. If you read on from there, you will see that Tesla devoted a lot of (if not all) his 'spare' time to 'perfecting this idea'. Checking the time line described, the CSN and the 'rare notes' I have come to believe that Wardenclyffe was the project that he is describing here as his life work.

Concerning the Schumann frequencies, I have not found 1 reference in Tesla's work to these frequencies. Tesla DID mention 12.78 Hz as an Earth-resonance frequency. Again, you must understand that Tesla was using the Earth itself not the surrounding Schumann cavity.
This Schumann-story is in my opinion a disinformants work.

Concerning the Wardenclyffe operating frequency, you have to distinguish between 2 frequencies: that of the power supply (Tesla calls it 'the free system') and the actual working frequency. If you go through the designs and the CSN (which is in my opinion closely related to this project) you will find that the former was probably between 100 KHz and 200 KHz (to be on the safe side ). The latter Tesla specificly says can be any frequency, but looking at the design it looks pretty obvious that this frequency was considerably lower than 100 KHz. Tesla does mention a frequency of around 30 KHz as 'most suitable' for power distribution in this manner. The design however suggests a frequence still lower, more likely in the 1-1000 Hz range. The only other frequency that I have come across in Tesla's work that could be related to Wardenclyffe is 12.78 Hz.
So that is my best bet.

This lower frequency is generated as a beat frequency (just like our world intercom: HAARP is/could be doing) or in a relaxation-oscillator-manner as William Beaty describes here.

This Wardenclyffe puzzle is a strange one, I feel we have the key, we just need to find the lock.

Ernst.
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  #194  
Old 11-20-2012, 06:50 PM
Hobby Eon Hobby Eon is offline
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I knew he would react.

When i posted i knew that SHILL ""dr green"" wouild react ! I knew it. I can smell a shill from miles.
So multiply anything he says/said by -1 and you have the right answers. But enough of this ugly liar who lives in a trailer.

Could Tesla mean gravity from the sun ? I see a belt there.
And how about like earth, like water, like air ? I devized this elegant parallel effect of how it could work.
It is based on the "pull along effect". There are two very known "pull along effect" devices known to us.
The first is the hotair balloon. They use a big air fan to blow it initially up with cold air.
But they don't seal the fan-balloon connection but leave it open so that the fan air stream pulls allong outside air.
This way the balloon is much faster filled with air then by fan itself.
And the other one i saw in America in the toilets. By a small water jet downunder the bowl water is emtied in a fraction.
A much bigger amount then the amount of jet water used.
And the same for a plasma torch; a small pilot spark sparks a main big spark.
Forget that 'earth pulling' it was just a Tesla description that he left soon. Remember he was just pionering than.
Later he used it in his car that wasn't connected to the earth at all. Why doesn't (shill) Green talk about Moray ?
All his shill activities work counter productive.
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  #195  
Old 11-20-2012, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Hobby Eon View Post
When i posted i knew that SHILL ""dr green"" wouild react ! I knew it. I can smell a shill from miles.
So multiply anything he says/said by -1 and you have the right answers. But enough of this ugly liar who lives in a trailer.
Keep calling me a shill. We will see how it turns out
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  #196  
Old 11-21-2012, 02:05 AM
Ernst Ernst is offline
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Quote:
When i posted i knew that SHILL ""dr green"" wouild react ! I knew it. I can smell a shill from miles.
So multiply anything he says/said by -1 and you have the right answers. But enough of this ugly liar who lives in a trailer.


Quote:
Why doesn't (shill) Green talk about Moray ?
All his shill activities work counter productive.

Didn't you just say "enough of this"?
Then let me say that again.
Talking about "counter productive" ??? What on earth do you think you will accomplish with cluttering up threads with name-calling? If anyone wishes to resort to such immature behaviour then please start a separate thread for that so that HERE we can focus on Wardenclyffe.
I can fully understand anybody's frustration if either you can not get your idea accros or if someone refuses to agree with your ideas. But that is just how it is and actually it that, which gives a forum like this its power.
If we would all share the same thoughts, then all your lifes are useless and I can do all the thinking for all of us.
Please play on the ball, not on eachother!

And actually Hobby-Eon, I do not see where your frustration is coming from. Didn't you say "Don't kill the dipole", and then dr-Green showed you that you are right?
Whatever it is, just drop it!



Ernst.
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  #197  
Old 11-21-2012, 04:15 AM
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Didn't you say "Don't kill the dipole", and then dr-Green showed you that you are right?
I don't think I did. If the analogy in the diagram is accurate, and the sphere is filled with liquid or gas, then the pressure gauges will respond in direct proportion to the hand pump. When you push it in, it will compress the liquid or gas, the gauges will go up, and they will stay up until you let the hand pump back out again. Where is the dipole? The gauges are measuring pressure, not flow from a high to low potential.
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  #198  
Old 11-21-2012, 06:17 AM
TeslaSecrets TeslaSecrets is offline
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To resonate with 7-12 Hz you would need a helluva big coil and capacitor.
Far bigger than Wardenclyffe's was. Tesla must have been using an upper harmonic.

Another coincidental relationship between the pyramid and Wardenclyffe, is the networks of tunnels and water underneath. Egyptians were familiar with hydraulics and tunneling through stone.

Wardenclyffe was to be powered from the Grid or a generator, transmitting said power to great distance without wires. Using the spherical shape of the Earth, he could magnify this power, over time, but not necessarily gain any "free power".

There was mention of Colorado Springs running for some time after the power was disconnected. This is not necessarily an indication of "free energy" because it could simply just be stored pressure being released back over time. He pumped up the Earth, then once power was disconnected, the Earth simply maintained the vibrations for some time afterwards.

I believe the power source for Tesla's car operated in a different fashion then Wardenclyffe. This device seems more akin to the work of Moray. These devices involve the "high frequency" energy as the source for their power.

Attacks on character, show lack of character.
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernst View Post
Refering to the possibility of a self-acting machine. If you read on from there, you will see that Tesla devoted a lot of (if not all) his 'spare' time to 'perfecting this idea'. Checking the time line described, the CSN and the 'rare notes' I have come to believe that Wardenclyffe was the project that he is describing here as his life work.
But how does the self-acting machine relate to Wardenclyffe? In the same article Tesla says this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikola Tesla
But my conclusions showed that if an engine of a peculiar kind could be brought to a high degree of perfection, the plan I had conceived was realizable, and I resolved to proceed with the development of such an engine, the primary object of which was to secure the greatest economy of transformation of heat into mechanical energy.
Where does the heat come from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikola Tesla
By combining this engine with a dynamo of special design I produced a highly efficient electrical generator, invaluable in measurements and determinations of physical quantities on account of the unvarying rate of oscillation obtainable by its means.
By this description, one could say that the modern (practical) equivalent is a crystal oscillator, or a signal generator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikola Tesla
By the use of such machinery as I am perfecting, its cost will probably be greatly lessened, but even then its commercial success will be questionable. When, used as a refrigerant it is uneconomical, as its temperature is unnecessarily low. It is as expensive to maintain a body at a very low temperature as it is to keep it very hot; it takes coal to keep air cold.
Later in the article:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikola Tesla
We are thus enabled to get a continuous supply of electrical energy by merely supporting a wire at a height, but, unfortunately, the amount of electricity which can be so obtained is small.
Supposing that you take this principle, a length of wire at a height connected to earth on the lower end, you get a continuous supply of electrical energy. Why is this, what is the physics behind it? Would it still work if the wire was charged to a few hundred thousand volts at the top?

I don't see any way that any of these ideas are compatible, on the scales that other people claim, but they certainly work individually for their given applications. As for what it all comes down to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikola Tesla
I worked for a long time fully convinced that the practical realization of this method of obtaining energy from the sun would be of incalculable industrial value, but the continued study of the subject revealed the fact that while it will be commercially profitable if my expectations are well founded, it will not be so to an extraordinary degree.
Power the transmitter with a solar panel, wind turbine, water turbine, the temperature difference in your compost, whatever. You are harnessing the energy of the sun, just as Tesla said. It's all free energy providing that you own the device that converts it. As it stands, in my opinion everyone is off on a wild goose chase not utilising any free energy that's right under our noses, with individuals calling people a shill for pointing it out. They should also be calling Tesla a shill:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikola Tesla
It is possible, and even probable, that there will be, in time, other resources of energy opened up, of which we have no knowledge now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernst View Post
This Schumann-story is in my opinion a disinformants work.
I wasn't advocating that, I mean theoretically in the most general terms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernst View Post
If you go through the designs and the CSN (which is in my opinion closely related to this project) you will find that the former was probably between 100 KHz and 200 KHz (to be on the safe side ). The latter Tesla specificly says can be any frequency, but looking at the design it looks pretty obvious that this frequency was considerably lower than 100 KHz. Tesla does mention a frequency of around 30 KHz as 'most suitable' for power distribution in this manner. The design however suggests a frequence still lower, more likely in the 1-1000 Hz range.
The Magnifying Transmitter operated at 45 kc.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post202262
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  #200  
Old 11-21-2012, 06:39 AM
TeslaSecrets TeslaSecrets is offline
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Like it or not the Schumann Resonance is based on the surface diameter of the Earth. Using a value for the Earth's average diameter from here:
Diameter of Earth
( random choice )
We have the average diameter of the Earth at 12,742 km = 12,742,000 meters
Circumference = PI * D so we get 40030173 meters around the Earth.
Plugged into wave equation:
Frequency = 2.99792 E 8 / 40030173 gives about 7.5 Hertz

10-12 Hz puts the wave inside the Earth, somewhere deep under the surface.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:24 AM
Ernst Ernst is offline
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@dR-Green,
You said:
Quote:
I don't think I did.
I think you did. When you create a high pressure, you put more gass in a certain space. This gass comes from somewhere where consequently a low pressure is formed. Looking at the MT, first current (charge) is drawn from the Earth and stored in the elevated capacitor. ==> Low preasure Earth, high pressure cap. Then this process is reversed creating the opposite charge distribution. So there is your dipole Earth is one pole, the cap is the other.
Quote:
The Magnifying Transmitter operated at 45 kc.
Yes, the one in Colorado Springs may have been, but that does not necessarily mean that Wardenclyffe was too. And then, this is only the 'free system' or power supply. With the potential generated another system was set in motion. See 'rare notes'.
All the other points that you mention, I believe I have covered in the first 2 posts opening this thread.

@TeslaSecrets,
Quote:
To resonate with 7-12 Hz you would need a helluva big coil and capacitor.
Not necessarily. Please read this.
You just need to be able to generate this frequency and as I said before that can be done. (my second last post before this one)
You are correct about the relationship between the Schumann frequency and the Earth circumferance. Now please, calculate for me how long it would take for a pulse travelling at light speed, to travel through the Earth (through its center) to the opposite side and back.

Ernst.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:33 AM
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TeslaSecrets,
I don't think you're quite on the mark saying that the wave is deep within the earth. Now I could be wrong but I think you're assuming that the wave Tesla uses travels around the globe like the energy for Schumann resonance does. The resonant frequency Tesla cites as being around 12 Hz is for an entirely different resonant mode to Schumann Resonance. Schumann Resonance is based on energy travelling around the Earth. Tesla repetitively stated that the current travels through the Earth, not around like normal electromagnetic radiation. The resonant frequency would be the inverse of the period for the energy to travel to one end of the earth and then back again or 2 * diameter of Earth or:

f=c/2d

Where;
c is speed of light
d is the diameter of earth (12,735,000 m)

Gives f = 11.77Hz


EDIT: Didn't see your post Ernst, this gives you the number you wanted above. 11.77 s^-1 = 0.085 seconds

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Last edited by Raui; 11-21-2012 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:44 AM
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dR-Green dR-Green is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernst View Post
I think you did. When you create a high pressure, you put more gass in a certain space. This gass comes from somewhere where consequently a low pressure is formed. Looking at the MT, first current (charge) is drawn from the Earth and stored in the elevated capacitor. ==> Low preasure Earth, high pressure cap. Then this process is reversed creating the opposite charge distribution. So there is your dipole Earth is one pole, the cap is the other.
But where is the dipole in the transmission line, between power supply and load? It's a monopolar transmission system. One sphere, the pump goes in or out, the pressure gauges respond, they don't need another reference point, or two poles. Hobby Eon said it as if it was a revelation, but if it's a revelation that you shouldn't short out the TMT or any "Tesla coil" and "kill the dipole" by connecting a load across it (connecting a pipe from the bottom of the pump back up to the top) then I don't know what to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernst View Post
Yes, the one in Colorado Springs may have been, but that does not necessarily mean that Wardenclyffe was too. And then, this is only the 'free system' or power supply. With the potential generated another system was set in motion. See 'rare notes'.
Yes, Wardenclyffe is a different design. The given frequency is of both the secondary and the power supply in CS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex
6) SECONDARY COIL DIMENSIONS AND CONSTANTS

Diameter: 15 meters
Height: 1 meter
Number of Turns: 17 numeric
Mean Length of Turn: 47 meters
Total Length of Turns: 800 meters
Luminal Wavelength: 3200 meters
Self Capacitance: 1500 picoFarad
Self Inductance: 10 milliHenry
Luminal Frequency: 94 Kc/sec
Free Space Frequency: 64 Kc/sec
Actual Frequency: 43 Kc/sec
Free Space Propagation: 68%
Actual Propagation: 46%
Transmission Impedance: 2500 Ohm
Dielectric Burden: 330 picoFarads
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Last edited by dR-Green; 11-21-2012 at 08:59 AM.
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  #204  
Old 11-21-2012, 09:06 AM
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GSM GSM is offline
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Through the Earth ?????

Suppose the circa 12Hz Schumann frequency relates to circumferential Radiant energy from Solar-polar emanations;

f = ('c' x Pi/2) / (Pi x d) ?

Such calculation would need to take account of atmospheric ionisation height and layer angle at the polar regions.

Cheers ........... Graham.
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:43 PM
Ernst Ernst is offline
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@ dR-Green,

Quote:
It's a monopolar transmission system.
Correct, so it is impossible to kill the dipole.

Just to make sure we are talking about the same things here. Please look at the 'rare notes' figure 7. That is the Wardenclyffe schematic on the left. The coils on the far left are only the power supply of the whole system. This power supply has its HV-end in some way connected to the second coil on the left.
The system on the right is the receiver. Read the included letter on page 1 from May 29 1901 which gives a brief explanation of this system.

Ernst.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:38 PM
TeslaSecrets TeslaSecrets is offline
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You may all be correct about the wave being transmitted across the diameter of the Earth. Very Interesting.

As for this paper :
Nikola Tesla Page, Tesla's power receiver

I understand what this author is saying, and believe this applies to some situations, but not all. His argument seems somewhat circular. He proposes the atom resonates with the em energy, and so has a much larger field, which can receive the longer wave. But how is the atom originally receiving any em energy to grow in size, if it has not yet received any energy, and thus has not grown in field size, and thus cannot receive the em to begin with?

This paper is just a technical run around in my eyes.

He declares in this paper :

Quote:
After all, electric and magnetic fields cannot BEND other fields. They cannot affect each other directly. They work by superposition. For the same reason, a light wave cannot deflect another light wave.

Which has been proven incorrect in special circumstances:

See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-photon_physics
Phys. Rev. Lett. 79, 1626 (1997): Positron Production in Multiphoton Light-by-Light Scattering

Einstein too predicted scattering of light by light.

There is more going on here than what this paper implies.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:47 PM
TeslaSecrets TeslaSecrets is offline
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If we had a small hollow rubber sphere, say 1 cm in diameter, and could pulse it with pulses of pressurized air, so as to increase and decrease its volume, it would send these pressure waves out around it.

There is no reason we could not pulse the sphere at 1 Hertz, even though its size is only 1 cm.
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  #208  
Old 11-22-2012, 12:35 AM
Ernst Ernst is offline
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@TeslaSecrets,
About this paper on receiving frequencies lower than the natural resonance frequency.
An atom does already radiate an alternating EM field, because there are electrons circling around. The orbit radius determines the frequency and thus every type of atom has its specific frequencies.

Ernst.
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Last edited by Ernst; 11-22-2012 at 01:35 PM. Reason: clearer description
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:03 PM
TeslaSecrets TeslaSecrets is offline
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@Ernst

Quote:
An atom does already radiate an alternating EM field, because there are electrons circling around. The orbit radius determines the frequency and thus every type of atom has its specific frequencies.
Yes but according to this paper the ac field of the atom extends into space, to capture the wavelengths longer than the atoms diameter. As you said the preexisting ac field, would be the same size as the atoms diameter, BUT could not extend into space unless the atom received external energy. Atoms cannot radiate a field, without getting that energy from somewhere. If atoms were constantly radiating energy, they would collapse. The orbit frequency does not match the long wavelength we are trying to receive, so this near field would be a different frequency then the long wavelength and cannot resonate anyways.

If what this paper is saying is true, then the atom would have to gain energy at its resonant frequency first, receiving a higher frequency wave, in order to receive the lower frequency wave, but atom cannot resonate at 2 totally different frequencies. This really is changing a single step process, into multiple steps. It is a run around, which makes the idea seem far more complex than it is.

In the small hollow rubber sphere example, it is not the size of the sphere which determines its resonant frequency of expansion and contraction. In this case the frequency is determined by the elasticity of the rubber and the pressure inside. I see no reason why atoms could not operate in this fashion, and thus we can see easily how small objects can have long wavelengths, because the size isn't the contributing factor to the the wavelength. This solution is simpler. Only problem is we do not think of atoms this way yet.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:37 PM
Hobby Eon Hobby Eon is offline
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When describing details of the Wardenclyffe schematic we see the extra coil which function it is to transform hi-impedance to low-impedance. Could we make something that feeds a low impedance directly and still works o.u. ?
I think of the Gray tube here but not its schematics.
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