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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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  #1141  
Old 10-25-2018, 09:25 AM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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How?

Speed of light. 3 squared =9
Times weight. 9 times 20=1.8 joules
TNT kiloton. 4.184
1.8. Divided by 4.184. = 430,210 kiloton.
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  #1142  
Old 10-25-2018, 10:30 AM
ricards ricards is offline
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OK I'm with yah, E=MC^2

can you fit that equation with the energy of a pressurized vessel?.
or maybe the potential energy of a pressurize bottle?.

the energy of a lightning..

the energy inside the hot core of our planet...

or simply the kinetic energy of a moving object..
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  #1143  
Old 10-25-2018, 12:00 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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More to the point.

Better still, can you find 1500 watts in a dead battery???
John.
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  #1144  
Old 10-25-2018, 01:13 PM
ricards ricards is offline
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that is like saying can you find 1500 watts in a capacitor?.

I'm sorry I don't see the point..
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  #1145  
Old 10-25-2018, 01:41 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Originally Posted by ricards View Post
that is like saying can you find 1500 watts in a capacitor?.

I'm sorry I don't see the point..
What we're trying to figure out is where the 1500 watts comes from in a 3 battery system.
Turion mentioned. COP more than one.
Lightning gave me an idea, does a Van der Graaf generator have a COP more than
one or does the friction involved in the triboelectric effect make an energy balance?
Can electricity be manipulated in the same way as heat (heat pump)?
John.
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  #1146  
Old 10-25-2018, 09:54 PM
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From Something

"Can electricity be manipulated in the same way as heat (heat pump)?
John."

Bingo! Does the excess heat come from nothing? Of course not. Neither does a COP greater than one. It just an expression of something we don't really have a good handle on yet. Like a heat pump pulls from ambient air, so does the systems that have COPs greater than one pull from ambient space. A better use of the innovative spirit on this forum would be to learn what that process/conversion is, so that regulation/consistency can be achieved. All this banter of what is and what isn't does nothing to forward the progress of finding the unknown. Sharing unexpected results is what moves innovation in a POSITIVE direction. Good or bad results. This way the same mistakes are not made over and over.

This is not a personal attack on anyone or compliment to those sharing. It is my opinion of what direction this forum has been allowed to go through the expression of insults and not disagreement. Is there more to the physics of electricity than what our current physics allow? Absolutely! We, no more have all the answers today, than our ancestors did 200 years ago. Those, 200 years from now will laugh, as we do about the presumptions of past, at our current "understanding". I think we should spend our energy on those unknowns, make them consistent, then figure out where it comes from. In that order. You are either looking for improvement through experimental discovery, or you are not. Which are you?

Cheers,

Randy
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  #1147  
Old 10-26-2018, 12:44 AM
ricards ricards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
What we're trying to figure out is where the 1500 watts comes from in a 3 battery system.
Turion mentioned. COP more than one.
Lightning gave me an idea, does a Van der Graaf generator have a COP more than
one or does the friction involved in the triboelectric effect make an energy balance?
Can electricity be manipulated in the same way as heat (heat pump)?
John.
The poison in your mind is that "The Energy" must come from somewhere.. It must have a "Source".. like it is something "Consumable"..
Energy can neither be created nor destroyed according to conventional science and physics.. what makes you think it can only be used once?..
you just need to find how..

another poison in the mind is the Energy can only be "Transformed"...
think about this.. a diesel generator continuously will consume fuel EVEN if you do not use the generated Energy in it..
so it's efficiency by definition is ZERO.
some would argue it has been converted to kinetic energy.. so then where does the kinetic energy been transformed to if your still not using the generated energy?.. heat.. friction.. etc etc.. and would come up with all the reason possible just to FIT the THEORY.

cool stuff..

Instead of asking yourself where the 1500 watts is coming from, its better to ask why is it doing that?..

what brings you to this kind of forum anyway?..
where is your optimism?..

back in the old days they say LED can only be used as indicators..
well luckily someone did not listen and the reason why we are using LED lighting in homes now.
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  #1148  
Old 10-26-2018, 04:04 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Diesel example

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricards View Post
...
think about this.. a diesel generator continuously will consume fuel EVEN if you do not use the generated Energy in it..
so it's efficiency by definition is ZERO.
some would argue it has been converted to kinetic energy.. so then where does the kinetic energy been transformed to if your still not using the generated energy?.. heat.. friction.. etc etc.. and would come up with all the reason possible just to FIT the THEORY.

cool stuff..

Instead of asking yourself where the 1500 watts is coming from, its better to ask why is it doing that?..
...
Hi ricards,

Good example. The diesel fuel is altered changing its molecular structure releasing heat, or as some would say, converting stored chemical energy into thermal energy. This thermal energy is converted into mechanical energy by the engine. The engine is only about 20-30% efficient, meaning for every kilowatt of mechanical power transferred by the shaft to the load, 3 or 4 kilowatts of power is wasted in the form of heat and managed by the radiator/coolant system. The shaft power is transmitted to the electric generator where it converts that mechanical power to electric power and used to drive the electric load and do useful work.

When you disconnect the electric load, no useful work is being done and output power in the efficiency equation becomes zero, so efficiency, output power divided by input power, is equal to zero. If the diesel engine continues to run, it continues to consume fuel converting it into heat. The shaft continues to rotate but without a resisting torque. So all the energy derived from the fuel and converted to heat is wasted, hence zero efficiency, or no useful work done. Less fuel is likely to be consumed at no load and most gen sets will slow down to idle when at no load reducing fuel consumption further, but what ever RPM, still zero efficient.

You mentioned kinetic energy. That only comes into play with a change in speed.

And I ask if the 1500 watts is real.

Regards,

bi
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  #1149  
Old 10-26-2018, 06:09 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Fact.

Virtually all the energy in our world comes from the Sun.
Food, oil, wind and hydro, it's from the sun.
There is a bit of nuclear and a tiny bit from the ground and that's it.
Apart from a 3BGS can anyone think of anything else?
John.
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  #1150  
Old 10-26-2018, 08:28 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Little gem.

Originally Posted by bistander View Post
It's just an example. But here you have have a big name FE researcher making a presentation at a major FE conference and can't even get it to work. How pathetic is that? Oh, and then sell video books on how to do it. Like "send me money and I'll tell you how to fail". Sound familiar?
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  #1151  
Old 10-26-2018, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi ricards,

Good example. The diesel fuel is altered changing its molecular structure releasing heat, or as some would say, converting stored chemical energy into thermal energy. This thermal energy is converted into mechanical energy by the engine.

Regards,

bi
Hello Bistander,

Sorry but your above statement "sounds" so clean...I mean, fuel is "altering its molecular structure..."...and am sorry but it is NOT ONLY ABOUT HEAT or just thermal release!!

When the farting machine BURNS FUEL it EXHAUST THAT BLACK LETHAL
GASES...which they have the audacity to call it "green gases"....how cool is that?

Point is...is not only heat -what this "conversion" is all about- but lethal gases expelled into the air, black, toxic gases that kills any human who inhale it for minutes without proper ventilation...best scenario by inhalation would be a respiratory failure which could be terminal or chronic disease.

I believe is now much better described the Diesel Engine Operation...

Regards



Ufopolitics
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Last edited by Ufopolitics; 10-26-2018 at 09:53 PM.
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  #1152  
Old 10-26-2018, 10:13 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Green gas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Hello Bistander,

Sorry but your above statement "sounds" so clean...I mean, fuel is "altering its molecular structure..."...and am sorry but it is NOT ONLY ABOUT HEAT or just thermal release!!

When the farting machine BURNS FUEL it EXHAUST THAT BLACK LETHAL
GASES...which they have the audacity to call it "green gases"....how cool is that?

Point is...is not only heat -what this "conversion" is all about- but lethal gases expelled into the air, black, toxic gases that kills any human who inhale it for minutes without proper ventilation...best scenario by inhalation would be a respiratory failure which could be terminal or chronic disease.

I believe is now much better described the Diesel Engine Operation...

Regards



Ufopolitics
Hi Ufo,

I don't disagree. Never said otherwise. I hate to be around diesel or any fuel burning. And hate what those by-products do to our environment.

I think they refer to greenhouse gases not green gases.

Regards,

bi
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Last edited by bistander; 10-26-2018 at 11:46 PM. Reason: bi was bo, happy Halloween
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  #1153  
Old 10-27-2018, 12:31 AM
ricards ricards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
Virtually all the energy in our world comes from the Sun.
Food, oil, wind and hydro, it's from the sun.
There is a bit of nuclear and a tiny bit from the ground and that's it.
Apart from a 3BGS can anyone think of anything else?
John.
perhaps it would be fair to ask..
do you have proof that virtually all the energy is from the sun?..

or did you just believe what you've been told?..

that's not a fact until proven.. still only a theory..
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  #1154  
Old 10-27-2018, 01:11 AM
ricards ricards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi ricards,

Good example. The diesel fuel is altered changing its molecular structure releasing heat, or as some would say, converting stored chemical energy into thermal energy. This thermal energy is converted into mechanical energy by the engine. The engine is only about 20-30% efficient, meaning for every kilowatt of mechanical power transferred by the shaft to the load, 3 or 4 kilowatts of power is wasted in the form of heat and managed by the radiator/coolant system. The shaft power is transmitted to the electric generator where it converts that mechanical power to electric power and used to drive the electric load and do useful work.

When you disconnect the electric load, no useful work is being done and output power in the efficiency equation becomes zero, so efficiency, output power divided by input power, is equal to zero. If the diesel engine continues to run, it continues to consume fuel converting it into heat. The shaft continues to rotate but without a resisting torque. So all the energy derived from the fuel and converted to heat is wasted, hence zero efficiency, or no useful work done. Less fuel is likely to be consumed at no load and most gen sets will slow down to idle when at no load reducing fuel consumption further, but what ever RPM, still zero efficient.

You mentioned kinetic energy. That only comes into play with a change in speed.

And I ask if the 1500 watts is real.

Regards,

bi
Bi,

are you sure you're not forgetting something?...
It's the very important part of the generator..

Can you really "Convert" or "Transform" the Mechanical Energy to Electrical Energy without magnetism?..

without magnetism.. where is the "Transformation of Energy" from mechanical to electrical?..

didn't you notice?.
there really is no DIRECT relation or conversion of mechanical energy to electrical?.. you need magnetism to do it..


the matter to energy conversion really is looking like an escape route to back-up the accepted laws of thermodynamics..

where does all the "Wasted" heat goes?.. if the sun is also heating us up.. oh I know.. "Global Warming".. GREAT!..

I'm not against any of that.. I'm just not contented with the way things are explained..

I'm more willing in believing the excess energy and investigate it by experiment than believe what I'm told.
so far.. It really looks like the excess energy is real. but not because it was created.. just not accounted for.
Energy doesn't really look like a FIXED Quantity..
more like only the "Quantity" something that you can quantify.. but really not a something...
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  #1155  
Old 10-27-2018, 02:44 AM
bistander bistander is offline
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Energy and stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricards View Post
Bi,

are you sure you're not forgetting something?...
No, I didn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricards View Post

It's the very important part of the generator..
Of course the electric generator uses magnetism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricards View Post

Can you really "Convert" or "Transform" the Mechanical Energy to Electrical Energy without magnetism?..
In fact you can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricards View Post

without magnetism.. where is the "Transformation of Energy" from mechanical to electrical?..
Pretty much every electric generator you could possibly use a diesel engine to power uses magnetism. It's a assumed fact. Didn't think I needed to mention it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricards View Post

didn't you notice?.
You're kidding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricards View Post

there really is no DIRECT relation or conversion of mechanical energy to electrical?.. you need magnetism to do it..
Magnetism is most common. But piezoelectric is another way. Or thermocouple will convert heat directly to electricity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricards View Post

the matter to energy conversion really is looking like an escape route to back-up the accepted laws of thermodynamics..
I don't follow. Pretty much every joule can be accounted for using conventional physics in the diesel electric example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricards View Post

where does all the "Wasted" heat goes?..
Obviously into the environment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricards View Post

if the sun is also heating us up.. oh I know.. "Global Warming".. GREAT!..

I'm not against any of that.. I'm just not contented with the way things are explained..
Sorry about that. I was just trying to help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricards View Post

I'm more willing in believing the excess energy and investigate it by experiment than believe what I'm told.
so far.. It really looks like the excess energy is real. but not because it was created.. just not accounted for.
Energy doesn't really look like a FIXED Quantity..
more like only the "Quantity" something that you can quantify.. but really not a something...
OK. Whatever. I don't understand "excess energy". Like too much fun? Or extra money? Or she's too good lookin'? I think there's adequate energy. Man just needs to manage it better.... A lot friggin' better.

Regards,

bi
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  #1156  
Old 10-27-2018, 04:05 AM
ricards ricards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
..


OK. Whatever. I don't understand "excess energy". Like too much fun? Or extra money? Or she's too good lookin'? I think there's adequate energy. Man just needs to manage it better.... A lot friggin' better.

Regards,

bi
You didn't understand?
I just changed the words.. COP>1.. free energy... etcc..
I just don't use those because most people like yourself is very sensitive to that..

no you're kidding me!

thermoelectric?

efficiency is what?..

so where is the other heat been transformed?.. oh I know at the other side.. of the thermocouple..
don't you think that the electric current was because of the effect of heat conduction?... as the temperature balances in a system?

piezoelectric?

Efficiency?..

where does the other mechanical, stress, vibration, energy, etc.. go?..

heating the environment?..

that is the usual escape!.. just to fit the theory (fact for you).

If you're happy with that.. well good for you..
no more worries..
no more problem..
no more guts to use, thus no more glory to earn..
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  #1157  
Old 10-27-2018, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricards View Post
You didn't understand?
I just changed the words.. COP>1.. free energy... etcc..
I just don't use those because most people like yourself is very sensitive to that..

no you're kidding me!

thermoelectric?

efficiency is what?..

so where is the other heat been transformed?.. oh I know at the other side.. of the thermocouple..
don't you think that the electric current was because of the effect of heat conduction?... as the temperature balances in a system?

piezoelectric?

Efficiency?..

where does the other mechanical, stress, vibration, energy, etc.. go?..

heating the environment?..

that is the usual escape!.. just to fit the theory (fact for you).

If you're happy with that.. well good for you..
no more worries..
no more problem..
no more guts to use, thus no more glory to earn..
reading the history of physics,
at one point everyone was all excited about nuclear magnetic resonance being the free energy of the future
I still wonder how this is not free energy
and if that is possible, what else is possible ?
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  #1158  
Old 10-27-2018, 05:19 AM
bistander bistander is offline
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Like the LED?

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Originally Posted by ricards View Post

no you're kidding me!

thermoelectric?

efficiency is what?..

..


piezoelectric?

Efficiency?..

where does the other mechanical, stress, vibration, energy, etc.. go?...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricards View Post
...
back in the old days they say LED can only be used as indicators..
well luckily someone did not listen and the reason why we are using LED lighting in homes now.
Did you ever consider by the time you figure how to tap the aether, the planet could be dead from man's mismanagement of energy? Improving our methods may be a better way to new discovery and curtail environmental destruction while doing so.

I don't understand your problem with heating the environment. It's a fact. Unless you're running cogeneration using that heat for something useful, it is wasted.

Regards,

bi
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  #1159  
Old 10-27-2018, 05:45 AM
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any one know what a heat pipe is ?
go look at the earth in that aspect
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  #1160  
Old 10-27-2018, 05:51 AM
ricards ricards is offline
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Did you ever consider by the time you figure how to tap the aether, the planet could be dead from man's mismanagement of energy? Improving our methods may be a better way to new discovery and curtail environmental destruction while doing so.

I don't understand your problem with heating the environment. It's a fact. Unless you're running cogeneration using that heat for something useful, it is wasted.

Regards,

bi
tap the aether?.. who said anything about that?..

have a look at that bold part of your statement..
management of energy.. yeah that's the one.. don't you think someone already did that?.. oh yeah you didn't believe him.. too bad you didn't get along well..

you could have been the 3rd party verifier of that system.
but that's all finished.

I don't have a problem with heating the environment..
I can't just accept it like that because it doesn't FIT the first law of thermodynamics.. if the planet is heating up where is the heat getting out?.. we have been using tremendous amount of energy and most say there are losses and those are HEAT. yet we still have the north pole and south pole ICE. oh and yeah it's still cold at night..

you may say what kind of reason is that?.. right?..
well I could say the same thing about heating the environment?..
where is all the heat being converted to?.. evaporation?... great.. but not convincing..
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  #1161  
Old 10-27-2018, 06:58 AM
bistander bistander is offline
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What?

Quote:
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tap the aether?.. who said anything about that? ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricards View Post
You didn't understand?
I just changed the words.. COP>1.. free energy... etcc..
I just don't use those because most people like yourself is very sensitive to that..
...
Where do you get your free energy?

I don't think we're speaking the same language here. Every post from you contradicts your prior post. And who didn't I believe? Turion? You believe he has a 1800W out/300W in generator?
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  #1162  
Old 10-27-2018, 12:14 PM
ricards ricards is offline
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too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Where do you get your free energy?

I don't think we're speaking the same language here. Every post from you contradicts your prior post. And who didn't I believe? Turion? You believe he has a 1800W out/300W in generator?
yeah I think we don't..

to you tapping the aether seems to be free energy..

mine isn't.. I have been reading a dozen of aether related theories and papers..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricards View Post
The poison in your mind is that "The Energy" must come from somewhere.. It must have a "Source".. like it is something "Consumable"..
Energy can neither be created nor destroyed according to conventional science and physics.. what makes you think it can only be used once?..
you just need to find how..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricards View Post
....

I'm more willing in believing the excess energy and investigate it by experiment than believe what I'm told.
so far.. It really looks like the excess energy is real. but not because it was created.. just not accounted for.
Energy doesn't really look like a FIXED Quantity..
more like only the "Quantity" something that you can quantify.. but really not a something...

I have quoted my self.. which part is contradicting?..
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  #1163  
Old 10-27-2018, 12:38 PM
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Finally somebody found it ! Almost every famous OU devices from the past tap Earth magnetic field, in a manner similar to heat pump or rather in a manner heap pumps should operate but their construction do not allow such mode of operation. What people didn't realized is that this process is the only solution to global climate change problem, but also to global free electricity (which is why it's suppressed). We missed the opportunity to get back to right track in 2012.
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  #1164  
Old 10-27-2018, 01:02 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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???? Questions

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yeah I think we don't..
...
I have quoted my self.. which part is contradicting?..
Hard to tell when I don't know what you're saying.

What leads you to believe I think energy can only be used once? Where did I ever say that?

Why do you not answer my questions? You certainly load your posts with questions.

bi
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  #1165  
Old 10-27-2018, 01:19 PM
ricards ricards is offline
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Quote:
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Hard to tell when I don't know what you're saying.

What leads you to believe I think energy can only be used once? Where did I ever say that?

Why do you not answer my questions? You certainly load your posts with questions.

bi
sorry truncated post.. had errors. check out now.

in your question, you seem to be looking at the "Source" of the excess energy (free energy)..

instead of the just sticking to the first law of thermodynamics..
I added the logic of "Cause and Effect"

aether as matter..

the abstract thing called "energy"... is somewhat derived from the real constituents of reality..

Matter.

and its properties
Temperature.
Electric Potential.

whenever there is an Imbalance in the properties of matter, there is measurable energy.

whenever matter is in motion there is also measurable energy.

I really like the equation E=mc^2 when c is not the speed of light.. but the "Rate of change"...
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Last edited by ricards; 10-27-2018 at 01:21 PM.
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  #1166  
Old 10-27-2018, 01:23 PM
ricards ricards is offline
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what of chemical energy?.. cause and effect.. fission, fusion.. If I fuse silicon would I also get a very large explosion?..

what of gravity?..
grasping a plenum universe with aether, flowing towards mass.. gives a picture in my head.. why does it flow there?.. a theory is aether is converted into another form of matter.. which coincidentally matches with current astronomy's theory of star aging.. (gets bigger)..

what of planets?..
earthquakes are effect of tectonic movements..
why does it move?.. explained above..

there is just too much to write on a single post..
these are all theories.. yess.. but there have been experimental verification.. and an alternate explanation of reality other than einstein's.
an explanation where you can actually draw the picture in your head.
and yes even energy..

so to answer the question, where do you get the free energy.. nowhere because we didn't really get any.. we just measured more at the output..
what are we measuring then?.. the mass's rate of change.. E=mc^2
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Last edited by ricards; 10-27-2018 at 01:32 PM.
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  #1167  
Old 10-27-2018, 01:24 PM
ricards ricards is offline
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here is a quote from one of my references.
"The spelling of the word A-e-t-h-e-r, indicates a redefining of this medium by starting over to the era of Descartes' Mechanicism, with the firm conviction that the human mind, which has evolved by the sensation of the mechanical world, can only comprehend nature through mechanical pictures or cannot comprehend it at all!. In this realm of Mechanicism, action at a distance is unthinkable and the only conceivable transmission of force from one body to another is through bodily contact through collision. motion can only be caused by motion and can only produce motion in turn".

I dunno what the problem.. sorry for triple post.. it doesn't let me post it all..

I know I'm in a really different language now.. so it is hard for me to communicate well.. and to make the point.
I have to make questions in order to form the logic. so it'd be easier than writing in a descriptive manner.
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  #1168  
Old 10-27-2018, 01:39 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricards View Post
...
in your question, you seem to be looking at the "Source" of the excess energy (free energy)..
...
See. This is what I mean. You first used "free energy" in this conversation. So I asked you.

Answer this. Do you believe Turion has a generator which outputs 1800 watts while using only 300 watts input power?

And while we're at it, do you believe in the 3bgs and use it to supply your household energy?

bi
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Old 10-27-2018, 02:02 PM
ricards ricards is offline
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cause and effect.

now to pertain logic that to the subject.

Pulse motors.

when the coil is energized(cause), a magnetism was created(effect). causing the rotor to run, here you apply 1st law of thermodynamics.

when the coil is de-energized (cause). the magnetism collapses (effect). causing large voltage on the coil to appear. here you apply 1st law of thermodynamics again. but this time you did not spend energy you ceased it.

3 Battery system

you charge the battery through a motor coil (cause). the motor turns (effect). the other battery charges (effect).
you then must apply 1st law of thermodynamics to both effect. but not in an additive manner.

The Generator..
I haven't tried this so I'm not commenting on it.

but I hope you get the point?..

they are small things but If you add them up the COP rises.. and could reach more than 1..

Charge_Calc.zip

here is a calculation of charge efficiency of capacitor with 84% energy transfer efficiency. take note of the actual voltage also written based on experiment.

they are just straight cap to cap connection, no coil no motor, an addition of a pulse motor and circuitry would increase the COP. but that wasn't my goal..

if you find any error on my calculations do let me know.
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Old 10-27-2018, 02:04 PM
ricards ricards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
See. This is what I mean. You first used "free energy" in this conversation. So I asked you.

Answer this. Do you believe Turion has a generator which outputs 1800 watts while using only 300 watts input power?

And while we're at it, do you believe in the 3bgs and use it to supply your household energy?

bi
yes about 80% i would say It should be possible similar experiments shows it.. 20% because I haven't seen it myself.

3BGS to supply household?.. no solar is much economical considering allocation of space for batteries required.
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