Energetic Forum  
Facebook Twitter Google+ Pinterest LinkedIn Delicious Digg Reddit WordPress StumbleUpon Tumblr Translate Addthis Aaron Murakami YouTube 2020 ENERGY CONFERENCE - PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!!

2020 Energy Science & Technology Conference
PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!
http://energyscienceconference.com


Go Back   Energetic Forum > >
   

Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #601  
Old 02-28-2016, 08:15 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,178

Okay here is my take.

I completely understand how much of a shock this all is
when for years people thought another person they trusted
turned out to be way out in left field. I have been watching
this for forty years and have had lots of time to sort this
all out.

The 60's taught me alot because many people used drugs
such as LSD and other psychotropics. Some of them did
quit for a long period but continued to have flash backs.

I learned that 1 episode was enough for some people to
effected for years to come. While they were young nothing
seemed to surface.

In their 30's out to 40's things will change and relapse
comes. Another interesting experiment I did was to ask
what the person did for spiritual exercise. This too
had an impact concerning spiritual actively that has
shown to cause the personality to swerve.

The main thing is that it took me years to actually
come to grips with this reality. People were walking
around who fooled me on the surface so I began
learning ways to find out quickly if a person was
truly competent.

I am able to find out sometimes within a 5 minute
conversation and I am not the only one here on this
forum who can do this. It looks like Aaron is better
at this than I am.

Generally the degree of which people go off the deep
end in conversation is so small I will overlook these
minor inconsistency but somethings are so crystal
clear it just can't be avoided.

Of course it hurts very much to find this out and hope
always takes a hold wishing I am totally wrong. I have
found that in most areas people will appear the same
as the next.

But if you find that touchy subject, all of the cards
fall loosely out of the deck in an unchecked fashion.


The world is not what it looks to be.
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 02-28-2016 at 09:07 PM.
Reply With Quote

Download SOLAR SECRETS by Peter Lindemann
Free - Get it now: Solar Secrets

  #602  
Old 02-28-2016, 09:09 PM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NYC and Conn USA
Posts: 1,421
Bro
I am having a hard time following your dots here

Can you connect them in one sentence ? Or maybe two ?

The
Chet
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #603  
Old 02-28-2016, 10:13 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,178
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMSET View Post
Bro
I am having a hard time following your dots here

Can you connect them in one sentence ? Or maybe two ?

The
Chet
Yes I think you need time to digest what has been written.
Go back and read what others are saying about these mental
issues. I know it is hard to get it all in 1 or 2 posts.

I am not being funny either, I have spent years facing up
to facts about humanity. This takes time to really settle
into your understanding of the world.

Many people have these slight imperfections, if you want to
call it that to where people are not damaging to others so
they seem to be normal in many aspect. They are often
very smart on many issues.

More than we care to see. Give yourselves time.

Love one another is very important, this is the basis of
all law and order. The perversion of the definition of
"love" is where we see the problem.

__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 02-28-2016 at 10:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #604  
Old 02-28-2016, 10:19 PM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NYC and Conn USA
Posts: 1,421
A fount of wisdom ??

I will try to understand your position , It has been said here "these are His own words " [referring to The SA person] as a justification for publishing
all this Puke being attached to the Kids [here and elsewhere]

I ask you ..since when do we follow an example for how to treat children
from a man like this ??

is his the Bar by which we would measure our own standards for the Innocents ?

he did it so its OK ?? that makes it right ? point to the man that has such good judgment when children are involved ??

"well he told all about it so whats your problem Chet ?"

what exactly are you saying here Bro ??

since it has become apparent that the victims of this man are becoming increasingly vulnerable to this crime and the collateral damage ,I would have thought the classy thing for you gentlemen to do was remove the hype
and dump the thread somewhere that it is not a topic at the Kids school or dinner table or whatever ??

but no Chet must have some secret motive ,this behavior of ours is completely normal and acceptable for an energy forum where Kids come to learn...

Mikey
please say what you mean here and stop beating around the bush ?

I came here to see if there could be a discussion around the future
of peswiki under a different leader ,

I did not want to post in the Mentioned thread for what should be apparent reasons !

so Mikey spit it out !!

Chet K
__________________
 

Last edited by RAMSET; 02-28-2016 at 10:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #605  
Old 02-28-2016, 10:56 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,178
I have witnessed enough cutting for one day so I feel
it is time to heal. It is very painful when dealing with
so much Ill will and I am sure you will agree.

Denial and indifference are the biggest offenders
we deal with on such a long list of complicated
subject matter.

Take a deep breath and enjoy your day. This is a
time of healing. You can't keep cutting away at
these ideas without a rest interval. This takes time.

It is easy for me to point all of these things out because
I have had time to adjust. This is a spiritual matter and
whenever we drag out the old skeletons to dust them off
we are under attack.

It's like these friendly fire exchanges tent to jump ship
back and forth to cause more harm than good. I hope
you can forgive and understand even tho no Ill intent
was ever delivered against anyone.

When I speak about these issues it is from a stand point
of acceptance of my view of this reality. I am sure.

Those who are not in the know look at statements as if
they are fiction. Or at best very painful to listen to and
nothing really out of the ordinary is expressed.

This is because we are in a battle on a level most are
unprepared for. This can be the only explanation. Words
are the most powerful force in our present existence.



__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #606  
Old 02-28-2016, 11:12 PM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NYC and Conn USA
Posts: 1,421
Bro

I honestly don't understand your comments of late.

I have to say for the most part your heart seems in the right place ,
I also have to say that in regard to SA and this forums history

It would seem your heart needs a little time to consider just how far retribution should go?

And at what cost!


Chet
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #607  
Old 02-28-2016, 11:21 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,178
This is not my newly formed opinion. I can not change yours
either. So what needs to be done is to have a time of healing.

I am not here to fight you on your opinion but you seem very
strong against others and don't have a problem with using
words to cut your opponents off.

Mental illness is nothing new. SDA is another cult, so is LDS.

I have been kind to you. You are unset?
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 02-28-2016 at 11:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #608  
Old 02-29-2016, 01:03 AM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NYC and Conn USA
Posts: 1,421
Never meant to cut off anybody !

It is very very hard to speak of these things ,more so from my perspective
Or ..opinion.. as you say.

We are entitled to our opinions ,but in my mind there is something very different about this
Topic and entitlement to an opinion .strictly as it applies to the children involved .

One thing is for certain and requires no opinion whatsoever SA is in a very good place now
And I sincerely hope he never gets the chance to do this again.

Chet
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #609  
Old 02-29-2016, 02:11 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,178
Yes Agreed, very painful, especially for those who are
involved. Let me give you another look at how I see this.

One episode I had a man at home who could play music,
got very good grades in schools also a giving person.

One day his family came home and he had his tool belt
on and had removed all of the paneling in their apartment.
He had taken the day off work and no one was any the wiser
til they returned home that day.

This happened out of the blue, according to the family.

The land lord was very understanding and put the paneling
back on. The young man was asked why he did that and his
reply was that he wanted to improve the apartment.

Later he got worse and today he is cared for properly where
people who are kind to him that have all day to watch over
him in a controlled environment. Some peeps say that is sad.
I disagree. This is a good thing because without proper guidance
all sorts of people take advantage of these people.

He can not smoke and drink, he can't drive a car but other
than that he can play games, watch TV, talk to others and
live out a safe life.

The people there like it so well after a while that they don't
want to leave. They remember the uncertainty of their old
way of life and have grown to enjoy their disciplines.

No one knows why people snap, if that is what it is. Some
folks I speak with are plagued with epilepsy as children
and then it goes away for awhile. You just never know
what might happen.

But one thing is true as you have reaffirmed, he is where he
NEEDS to be, and I stress "NEED". When peeps have needs
we often don't want to face facts, this is called denial.

Many family members battle with this denial more so, than an
outsider would, who has a more analytical view of the cause
and effects.

Some family members never get over it, they believe that the
person should be let go free, back out where another bad
event might take place. But the family is often willing to risk
that, promising to oversee the weaker.

This does happen in some cases but not very often because
as I said they don't want to leave their homes inside.

The voices say things such as 'YOU ARE THE COMING OF JESUS"
and they repeat what they are hearing from the spirit world.
Many start out in Churches like this," THE LORD TOLD ME " or
HE told me that. Over the years this can lead to a belief that is
real to them but totally incoherent with reality.

Let us rejoice in that they are cared for, they have breath, they
have blood flowing through their bodies, they are alive, they are
happy also just like you and I.

The readjustment is quick as their new life is much better all of the
way around. Playing pool with others and musical instruments.

These places are great.



__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 02-29-2016 at 05:07 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #610  
Old 03-07-2016, 09:15 AM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NYC and Conn USA
Posts: 1,421
The head on the pillow at night..

Mikey I have a sincere question to ask you
yourself being a man of the cloth .

are you around ??
__________________
 

Last edited by RAMSET; 03-07-2016 at 09:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #611  
Old 03-07-2016, 11:30 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,178
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMSET View Post
Mikey I have a sincere question to ask you
yourself being a man of the cloth .

are you around ??
More like a wild man with a loin clothe, LOL. Shoot!!
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #612  
Old 03-07-2016, 01:31 PM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NYC and Conn USA
Posts: 1,421
If you woke up tomorrow with an FE device that could save
lives and with the complete understanding and ability to share with others.

what would you do ?

sincerely

Chet
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #613  
Old 03-07-2016, 09:24 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,178
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMSET View Post
If you woke up tomorrow with an FE device that could save
lives and with the complete understanding and ability to share with others.

what would you do ?

sincerely

Chet
I would market the idea just like Dr.P. Lindemann said.

First I would make a small device like a 100 watt light
WITH a solar panel on it to cover my other end. I would
put it in all of your faces everyday showing you on youtube
how to build one all the time knowing you would probably
be on your way out the door to work. Not enough time
to do much with our busy schedules.

I would next put the power pack in a scooter like ALEK.

I would give it away to those who could manufacture
something so their product would be improved and then
I would run for president of the world, LOL.

No really I would need to be careful how I got
out my idea so I could benefit from it but at the same
time the common man could also.

I would share it with you because you care about FE
and could understand it. I would share it with EBAY in
the form of plans to build your own.

In about 20 years maybe some of these ideas would
become known by 400 million people. I think it takes
time and I mean longer than any of us have.

The key to making this grow fast enough to see results
in our life time would be to do some sort of pyramid
scheme where 1 person tells 5 others and each of them
do the same thing so the idea either in the form of plans
or in the form of a small device got out to enough
people in a relative short period of time.

Say approx 10 years you would have reached a few thousand
people who actually are involved with making the idea work
for the people. From there the young people in the next
20 years could make it better and also come up with
more ideas.

I worked at AMWAY, SHACKLEE, FILTER QUEEN, ELECTROLUX
insurance and with any sales company (Even Church growth)
you must work and work hard to keep it alive.

One man can only do so much. You must have a leader who
is kind and understanding to all of the workers and money
or position can not be the only goal of operations.
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 03-08-2016 at 01:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #614  
Old 03-08-2016, 01:48 PM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NYC and Conn USA
Posts: 1,421
I thought about this reply quite a bit

I truly believe the decade long plan needs some attention, I hope someday
down the road it is not my family or loved ones waiting for a marketing plan
to finally show up at their door so they have what others have free access to ?

honestly..

I was speaking with a friend yesterday and we were discussing this very problem , why do some have such a hard time giving ,actually most of "us" men when it comes to Our livelihood ? and others seem to make it their lifes goal to Take and keep for them selves more than any
man could ever need in a thousand life times.

I have come to a conclusion in my life ..attaching Money to oxygen , sunshine , a drink of water for a thirsty man, or free energy must not be my path.

first things first ..do whatever it takes to save the life ,just as if it were my
loved ones waiting for that help !

this would be the only way I could live with myself and put my head on the pillow at night.

just one mans opinion
and not one made in judgment ,and yes I know it is filled with holes
put at least its a step in the right direction.

Chet K
__________________
 

Last edited by RAMSET; 03-08-2016 at 01:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #615  
Old 03-08-2016, 07:57 PM
alman's Avatar
alman alman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMSET View Post
I truly believe the decade long plan needs some attention, I hope someday
down the road it is not my family or loved ones waiting for a marketing plan
to finally show up at their door so they have what others have free access to ?

honestly..

I was speaking with a friend yesterday and we were discussing this very problem , why do some have such a hard time giving ,actually most of "us" men when it comes to Our livelihood ? and others seem to make it their lifes goal to Take and keep for them selves more than any
man could ever need in a thousand life times.

I have come to a conclusion in my life ..attaching Money to oxygen , sunshine , a drink of water for a thirsty man, or free energy must not be my path.

first things first ..do whatever it takes to save the life ,just as if it were my
loved ones waiting for that help !

this would be the only way I could live with myself and put my head on the pillow at night.

just one mans opinion
and not one made in judgment ,and yes I know it is filled with holes
put at least its a step in the right direction.

Chet K

Not sure why you took your discussion about peswiki/sterling here to this thread? I don't usually jump into others dialog but Have thought about this since dave (turion) started the thread Path to real free energy device

Chet you stated "I have come to a conclusion in my life ..attaching Money to oxygen , sunshine , a drink of water for a thirsty man, or free energy must not be my path."

To live a person needs 3 of these mentioned by you, but the 4th is luxury. What benefit is it to man to not have to work?
Surely you know that man is selfish, lazy, and greedy. Inherently sinful to the core. watch the news for 10 minutes. Children do not need to be taught to say, "mine, mine" it is their nature. Children need to be taught to share, "do on to others as you would have them do on to you." So we have the natural state of man selfish/lazy/greedy. This nature does not go away with age, it often gets amplified to the negative.

you want free energy, do half the stuff in turion's thread free energy device: take the 3bgs and run your bedini ssg between the positives or the negatives with a different load between the positives. watch the back batteries charge while the front discharges all the while spike charging another battery. Add another Higher potential over the 24v series batteries and run a load between that positive and the 24v positive as Jettis (dave wing) has shown. I have done it / I am doing it. I believe Erfinder cascades with his device too. It is fun, Friedrich has a series of videos doing this same stuff. no more need to talk about "what if" just do it! on a small scale it can be done with stuff around the house, but it will cost you if you scale it up, give it away if you want: create the potentials and reuse them as they "cascade" into a reservoir. give give give, until there is nothing left and then someone will come and tell you that they deserve your last crumb more than you. I am getting cynical here. Give man what he needs if you have something to share, but the lazy demanders will come to your door if your lights are on and theirs aren't. The problem lies in the heart of man, not the giving away of free energy. Sorry to all for rant, it is off my chest now. No disrespect to you Chet, I don't know your heart. But I do know what Jesus has done for mine, and if I have any to add to this community I will, I am mostly copy and paste right now. Aln
__________________
 

Last edited by alman; 03-08-2016 at 08:29 PM. Reason: adding more to rant:)
Reply With Quote
  #616  
Old 03-09-2016, 02:39 AM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NYC and Conn USA
Posts: 1,421
alman
why the SA comment here instead of at the big "come see the Pedophile here" billboard on the front page of an energy forum which hopes to attract youngsters ?

besides what I feel is grossly inappropriate ,I had attempted to inform
administration of the feeding frenzy surrounding this scandal and how with but a few clicks on the search tittle the children who were attacked were becoming
increasingly vulnerable due to details which were shared By the assailant
as well as others who hate him so much they revealed way too much about the victims and their locations.
here it was suggested I should chill because the Molester had shared these things with his own mouth .

I personally feel we should never let the molester set the bar for how to protect children from public humiliation.

maybe putting yourself in their place at their school listening to their classmates talk about this ??
horrible stuff for sure.. every last bit of it.

and alman I am not addressing you above .

my request was merely to remove the Billboard and trigger words from the tittle or loose it off the front page.

regarding the rest of your comments , I am sending you a PM

thanks for your response.

respectfully
Chet
__________________
 

Last edited by RAMSET; 03-09-2016 at 03:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #617  
Old 03-09-2016, 05:55 AM
erfinder erfinder is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by alman View Post
I believe Erfinder cascades with his device too. Aln
What has this belief about what I am doing gained you? I tried sharing with you people.....you all demonstrate over and over again that what I am saying doesn't compute, not my problem. Do not reference me unless you "know" what I am doing! This isn't an impossible task because I told you what I was doing, SAVVY!
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #618  
Old 03-09-2016, 02:15 PM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NYC and Conn USA
Posts: 1,421
maybe while some people are tuning their FE business models and counting their cash they should keep an eye to the sky and the air ...

https://www.superstation95.com/index.php/world/990

yeah no need to rush things along 20-- 40 years should be just fine !

we have plenty of time in the land of plenty...
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #619  
Old 03-10-2016, 03:33 AM
alman's Avatar
alman alman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 51
Post just enjoy seeing you around erfinder

Quote:
Originally Posted by erfinder View Post
What has this belief about what I am doing gained you? I tried sharing with you people.....you all demonstrate over and over again that what I am saying doesn't compute, not my problem. Do not reference me unless you "know" what I am doing! This isn't an impossible task because I told you what I was doing, SAVVY!
I was thinking of the following when I wrote above:

Quote:
Originally Posted by erfinder
When it was observed that I was paying for driving the load, and major drops in speed, I changed gears. If I am going to pay "extra" for operating the load, it it might as well be for something that I can benefit from immediately. It was here that a second circuit was introduced which was supplied by the recovery capacitor. The recovery from this second circuit can technically be considered as a "free" lunch if for no other reason because its:
.....recovered recovery..... Send the "recovered recovery" through your comparator cap dump circuit, after you have used the recovery to increase your torque.
(in esf)

-I have gained nothing from my belief in what you are doing... yet
-You tried earnestly in your effort, and I am dense, busy, and probably do not have what it takes to make it compute.
-I can not say that I "know" anything as I do not have one of your machines in front of me, my own fault.
-impossible task if no effort is put in
-I have respected your wishes to not publically dissect your writings and more recently have dusted them off (figuratively) as many obstacles have come my way since we were conversing a few years ago. Your methods make sense to me, I am not your enemy. See me as you choose. I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
Aln
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #620  
Old 06-04-2016, 06:13 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,715
Coil resistance

Quote:
Originally Posted by citfta View Post
I am starting this thread for open discussion for those people who would like to discuss projects that are going on on this forum...Technical questions and others have resulted in flame wars and serious name calling. This thread is for serious discussion ONLY! There will be no flaming or name calling. If you disagree with another poster please state why you disagree with your technical discussion only. We can disagree without being disagreeable!
...
Coil resistance.

So I follow current posts in active threads and see this the other day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Hello,

You could try winding a Secondary Coil, much finer wire (do the conversion math, gauge/#turns=resistance), equivalent (more-less) to 470 Ohms, ...

Regards

Ufopolitics
I'm not sure how "on-topic" it is. But the equation doesn't look correct to me. So I post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi Ufo,

I've done a lot of work with coils and have never come across that relationship. "gauge/#turns=resistance"
Could you please elaborate? Is resistance in Ohms and gauge in AWG# wire size?

This is just a simple request and I'll not comment further as not to sidetrack this thread.

Thanks in advance,

bi
He responds:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Bistander,

The basic Gauge/Resistance Charts are based on linear length/gauge (given in either awg or mm) equals resistance (Length(L)=Resistance(R), And from there anyone could do the math by using either Area (for square/rectangular cores/shape) or Diameter to calculate circumference (length) for cylindrical cores...

Particularly it is not simple to measure long threads of wire when winding large coils for either motors or generators...unless you have a spool to spool transfer tool, with a counter...I don't.


Cheers


Ufopolitics
So am I'm missing something? Does a reader without knowledge on the subject think that coil resistance = AWG/turns, like #24 wire / 200 turns = 0.12 Ohms?

And what does the core area of the coil have to do with the resistance?

I think it is just double talk from Ufo. Thought I'd post in this thread as not to interrupt other threads.

Regards,

bi
__________________
 

Last edited by bistander; 06-04-2016 at 06:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #621  
Old 06-04-2016, 09:03 PM
citfta's Avatar
citfta citfta is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,323
Hi Bi,

Glad to see you are still around.

Well I can see what he is saying up to a point. If you know the circumference of the coil you can figure the length and using the wire gauge chart calculate the resistance. But the problem with that is most coils have a circumference that is constantly changing as you add layers of wire. So the wire length of a turn at the inside of the coil could end up being much shorter than the length of a wire turn on the outside of the coil.

By the way a wire measuring tool is very easy to make. Go to Harbor Freight or wherever and buy one of the tools that has a wheel that rides on the ground for measuring distance. Mount it on your bench and make some simple guides to keep the wire going onto the wheel nice and straight and with a single wrap of wire around the wheel. As you pull the wire for your coil the wheel will turn and keep count of how many feet of wire you have used. Turion showed me that trick. Very simple and nice way to wind a bunch of coils and make sure they all have the same amount of wire on them. Much better than trying to count turns and more accurate also.



Carroll
__________________
Just because someone disagrees with you does NOT make them your enemy. We can disagree without attacking someone. This means YOU especially BroMikey.
Reply With Quote
  #622  
Old 06-04-2016, 10:41 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,715
Coil calculation

Quote:
Originally Posted by citfta View Post
Well I can see what he is saying up to a point. If you know the circumference of the coil you can figure the length and using the wire gauge chart calculate the resistance. But the problem with that is most coils have a circumference that is constantly changing as you add layers of wire. So the wire length of a turn at the inside of the coil could end up being much shorter than the length of a wire turn on the outside of the coil.
Thanks and nice to see you back. Sure, you need circumference, or more correctly, LMT, which stands for Length Mean Turn. Shop talk for the average length of a single turn on the coil of that size and shape. Then the LMT times the turns per coil (usually N) equals the total wire length in the coil.

But he says "area" referring to a square or rectangular core. It should be obvious to anyone familiar with geometry that the perimeter of a rectangle (2L+2W) can vary extensively compared to the area (A=LW) for the same area having different lengths and widths. The perimeter of a rectangular core would be the length of the wire needed to wrap the first turn around that core. The area of the core tells you little to nothing about the how much wire is needed. A narrow long core will require more wire than a nearly square core having the same area.

That's what I was talking about.

bi
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #623  
Old 06-05-2016, 12:33 AM
citfta's Avatar
citfta citfta is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,323
I kinda skipped over that part. But I agree with you. My problem with the resistance wire gauge chart is I have found it to be only an approximation. I have measured what is supposed to be the same wire gauge from different manufacturers and the resistance is not always the same.

By the way there are no "off topics" for this thread except flaming or bashing someone else. I started it with the hopes those with a technical interest could have discussions without upsetting those who want to believe anything they see without regard to reality. At the time I started this thread there were a couple of pretty active threads where the originators of those threads were very opposed to anyone that dared to ask technical questions about what they were doing.

Take care,
Carroll
__________________
Just because someone disagrees with you does NOT make them your enemy. We can disagree without attacking someone. This means YOU especially BroMikey.
Reply With Quote
  #624  
Old 06-05-2016, 12:45 AM
Ufopolitics's Avatar
Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: US, Florida
Posts: 5,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Coil resistance.

So I follow current posts in active threads and see this the other day.



I'm not sure how "on-topic" it is. But the equation doesn't look correct to me. So I post:



He responds:



So am I'm missing something? Does a reader without knowledge on the subject think that coil resistance = AWG/turns, like #24 wire / 200 turns = 0.12 Ohms?

And what does the core area of the coil have to do with the resistance?

I think it is just double talk from Ufo. Thought I'd post in this thread as not to interrupt other threads.

Regards,

bi
Bistander,

I believe you are making too much of a big deal on such a simple subject...however, I can see just now, where the whole thing created confusion on your part...since I saw the math operation you did above...

When I wrote "AWG/turns" I never meant to "mathematically divide" awg and #turns, because I utilized the slash sign, ...I just used it to separate both parameters...I could have used a "-"...or a "_"...or even a dot or a comma. So, I am really sorry if my slash sign created such confusion on your end,

Now on the issue about awg, resistance and number of turns...

Please, take a look at this Link's Chart based on AWG/1000 ft/Ohms (and am not dividing awg by 1000ft by ohms, just separating them like I did before...)

Now look at the 10 awg wire at 1000 ft have exactly One (1) Ohm.

So, let's say we are winding a square core where One (1) Turn equals exactly to One (1) Ft ...(which means that the square core has 3 inches per side) Now, If We need One (1) Ohm in that Coil...How many turns of 10 awg we need to do?

We need to do approx 1000 turns...and I said approx because it is never on the spot, since it depends of not just the square area of core, but the depth as well...

I have chosen this 10 AWG because it is exactly 1 Ohm @ 1000ft and makes it easier to understand the conversion from linear to # of turns. However, we could do it with any wire gauge...for example, 20 awg (more realistic than 10 awg) is 10.15 Ohms @ 1000ft...so we need One (1) Ohm at that coil and that is between 98-99 turns...based on the simple and ancient "Rule of Three" method, it gives Us exactly 98.5 turns.

And of course, I know we have to account on the Amps, Volts at circuit, in order to choose the right gauge as well as the room we have at the coil's core.

Hope this time I made myself more "understandable" to you. So, is clear now I was not "Double Talking" there... (Double talk: deliberately unintelligible speech combining nonsense syllables and actual words)....I don't need do that Bistander...as I believe no one on this Forum needs to "double talk" either...

If we look again at that chart...we could notice that one or two or even three turns (1,2 or 3 ft) are not going to make a huge deal of a difference in the total ohms of the coil...so the layers increase could also be insignificant...I believe there is a simple formula to do that, but I don't have the time to get involved in it at this point, really.


Cheers


Ufopolitics
__________________
Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

Last edited by Ufopolitics; 06-05-2016 at 12:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #625  
Old 06-05-2016, 01:58 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,715
Coil resistance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Bistander,

I believe you are making too much of a big deal on such a simple subject...however, I can see just now, where the whole thing created confusion on your part...since I saw the math operation you did above...

When I wrote "AWG/turns" I never meant to "mathematically divide" awg and #turns, because I utilized the slash sign, ...I just used it to separate both parameters...I could have used a "-"...or a "_"...or even a dot or a comma. So, I am really sorry if my slash sign created such confusion on your end,
Hi Ufo,

Thanks for the reply. I just go by what I see that you typed into your posts. The slash "/" represents the mathematical operation of division. The separation punctuation symbol is the comma ",".

Quote:
When I wrote "AWG/turns" I never meant to "mathematically divide"
Why then did you immediately follow it with an equal sign?
Quote:
gauge/#turns=resistance
That sure made it look like an equation to me.

On to a different subject, core area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
...since it depends of not just the square area of core, but the depth as well...
That is the second time you mention core area in relation to coil resistance. So let's use your example. Consider the depth long enough as not to be a factor; in other words, all turns are identical to each other. And consider the core in your example a rectangle instead of a square. A square is a rectangle, right?

So the rectangular core in your example has an area of 9 square inches. Tell me how that area relates to the coil resistance.

Your 3 by 3 inch core had a turn length of 12 inches and an area of 9 sq.in.
A 2 by 4 inch core would also have a turn length of 12 inches but an area of 8 sq.in.
A 1 by 5 inch core would have a turn length of 12 inches and an area of 5 sq.in.
And so on.

How does the coil resistance depend on the core area?

Regards,

bi
__________________
 

Last edited by bistander; 06-05-2016 at 04:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #626  
Old 06-05-2016, 09:25 PM
Ufopolitics's Avatar
Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: US, Florida
Posts: 5,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi Ufo,

Thanks for the reply. I just go by what I see that you typed into your posts. The slash "/" represents the mathematical operation of division. The separation punctuation symbol is the comma ",". bi
Bistander,

So we are "bound/condemned" to use just the comma (,) to separate "items"...who set that law?...Ok, so I love to brake it, so what?...look at my "bound/condemned"...I do it all the time and it don't mean I am "mathematically dividing" bound by condemned what units...??

Bistander, previously...you wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Sure, you need circumference, or more correctly, LMT, which stands for Length Mean Turn. Shop talk for the average length of a single turn on the coil of that size and shape. Then the LMT times the turns per coil (usually N) equals the total wire length in the coil.

Where did you get that term Length "Mean" Turn from...? I google it and all hits I get is Lockheed Martin Corporation Stocks (LMT Stocks...and Wikipedia (your always consulting source) gave me "Licensed Massage Therapist"...on another hit I got "Laredo Morning Times"...are you from Laredo?


Quote:
Why then did you immediately follow it with an equal sign? That sure made it look like an equation to me.
Because by having those two parameters (gauge AND number of turns) anyone could get the total ohms in any coil, I was abbreviating by using the "equal to" sign.

Now, related to that post where you have started ALL THIS Argument about...the part that you are making such a big deal off...was the LEAST of my concern...meaning that ANYONE here could do such simple operation to obtain a total resistance of a coil. He was just trying to replace that 470 ohm resistor by something else...and I gave him my opinion...that is all.

Quote:
On to a different subject, core area.

That is the second time you mention core area in relation to coil resistance. So let's use your example. Consider the depth long enough as not to be a factor; in other words, all turns are identical to each other. And consider the core in your example a rectangle instead of a square. A square is a rectangle, right?

So the rectangular core in your example has an area of 9 square inches. Tell me how that area relates to the coil resistance.

Your 3 by 3 inch core had a turn length of 12 inches and an area of 9 sq.in.
A 2 by 4 inch core would also have a turn length of 12 inches but an area of 8 sq.in.
A 1 by 5 inch core would have a turn length of 12 inches and an area of 5 sq.in.
And so on.

How does the coil resistance depend on the core area?

Regards,

bi
There You are again, limiting your understanding capability of discernment by the mathematical application of a word...in this case area.

Area in Math definition results in Square Units...the same as Volume (3D) ends with Cubic Units...

However, the Gauge to Resistance charts are based on Linear Units...not Squared...so, again, do you want to think it twice...in order to realize I was referring to Outside Area of Core?

Reminding you that Area as a noun means "the extent or measurement of a surface, dimension, proportion, etc,etc,etc"

Now, out of all this huge deal you have made out of my so brief comment...I can just conclude that it was obvious you had no idea that Gauge to Resistance conversion charts based on linear units...ever existed.

Otherwise, as smart as I know you are...I am pretty sure you would have figured out ALL by yourself...

Nice talking to you again Bistander...but, unfortunately I would not be able to keep entertaining such interesting conversation any longer...related to Kindergarten Math...


Arrivederci Caro amico




Ufopolitics
__________________
Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

Last edited by Ufopolitics; 06-05-2016 at 09:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #627  
Old 06-06-2016, 03:09 AM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,715
Reply to Ufo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Bistander, previously...you wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Sure, you need circumference, or more correctly, LMT, which stands for Length Mean Turn. Shop talk for the average length of a single turn on the coil of that size and shape. Then the LMT times the turns per coil (usually N) equals the total wire length in the coil.

bi
Where did you get that term Length "Mean" Turn from...? I google it and all hits I get is Lockheed Martin Corporation Stocks (LMT Stocks...and Wikipedia (your always consulting source) gave me "Licensed Massage Therapist"...on another hit I got "Laredo Morning Times"...are you from Laredo?
Hi Ufo,

I was able to find various hits on google for Length Mean Turn, or mean length of turn, or mean turn length in the context of electric coils. Many were from old text or engineering books but several were fairly recent papers on motor efficiency and such. In my quote I stated it was shop talk. That was in reference to a job I once had with a company which designed and manufactured coils by the millions.

Regards,

bi

Attached Images
File Type: png LMT.png (65.6 KB, 131 views)
__________________
 

Last edited by bistander; 06-06-2016 at 12:50 PM. Reason: Added image
Reply With Quote
  #628  
Old 06-06-2016, 12:32 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,715
Reply to Ufo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Bistander,
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi Ufo,

Thanks for the reply. I just go by what I see that you typed into your posts. The slash "/" represents the mathematical operation of division. The separation punctuation symbol is the comma ",".

So we are "bound/condemned" to use just the comma (,) to separate "items"...who set that law?...Ok, so I love to brake it, so what?...look at my "bound/condemned"...I do it all the time and it don't mean I am "mathematically dividing" bound by condemned what units...??
Quote:
so what?
Words (and symbols) have meanings. When you choose to ignore convention and assign any old meaning to words and symbols which you use, it makes communication difficult, especially in a technical, mathematical or scientific context. A reader not skilled in the subject can easily misinterpret your statements such as that "equation".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
gauge/#turns=resistance
To those readers who are familiar with the subject, it makes you appear as though you don't know what you're talking about.

These two posts which followed in the original thread are fine examples of helpful comments using correct mathematical symbols. They are clear and concise. They give a favorable impression of the author to readers, knowledgeable on the subject or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon View Post
Since your simply triggering the base of the transistor there is no reason for massive current to flow there - you might replace the high power resistors with a cap in parallel with a standard 1/4watt resistor. I would start with a .1 uf cap and adjust as necessary for performance. If you know the frequency of the circuit you can adjust the resistance of the cap Xc = 1/ (2pi x F x C ) and use a high value resistor to aid in the initial start up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernst View Post
Dragon already said most there is to say.
A few minor additions:
The maximum current that you expect to flow through the resistor when using 12V = 12/470 = 26 mA. At 12 V that represents 12V x 26 mA = 0.31 Watt.
So I think a 5W resistor is a bit overkill, 1W would do, and probably 0.5 W would work as well.
So the easiest way to get rid of that resistor is to replace it with a 0.5 W version.

You could also try different values:

With 470 Ohm you will have 26 mA through the base, with an amplification factor of about 40 that will give you roughly 1A (26 mA x 40) through your coil.

With 1000 Ohm you'll have 12 mA through the base, giving roughly 0.5 A through your coil.

The coil has some impedance which will limit the maximum current at a given frequency. So what I would do is try to find that maximum and then adjust the resistors accordingly. Take a handful of 1K5 (1/4W) resistors, start with one and add them one by one in parallel until it makes no more difference.


Ernst.
Regards,

bi
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #629  
Old 06-06-2016, 12:41 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,715
Area?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post

There You are again, limiting your understanding capability of discernment by the mathematical application of a word...in this case area.

Area in Math definition results in Square Units...the same as Volume (3D) ends with Cubic Units...

However, the Gauge to Resistance charts are based on Linear Units...not Squared...so, again, do you want to think it twice...in order to realize I was referring to Outside Area of Core?
That is unbelievable Ufo. You actually call the linear distance around the outside of the core "area". For clarification please calculate area of a rectangular core 3 inches by 5 inches. Include the units. I really want to see if I understand you correctly.

Thanks,

bi
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #630  
Old 07-23-2016, 10:43 PM
citfta's Avatar
citfta citfta is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,323
How can we help those that are trying to learn?

As most of you know if you have been around a while I had given up on this forum for several reasons. Then I was asked to come back so I have been back a few months and nothing has changed all that much. One of the reasons I left was because of the attitude of some of the members of this forum. There are some still around that don't want to be told they might be wrong about what they think they understand.

I was blessed with the opportunity to actually get to work in a field I really enjoyed. That was the area of electronic troubleshooting. I was an industrial maintenance electrician for over 30 years. I loved that job and its challenges.

What really bothers me about this forum is there are those that insist on posting things that I know are just plain wrong. Now I don't care too much if the poster insists on believing whatever but what bothers me is there are those that really do want to learn. So how can they know what to believe when they see so much foolishness posted. I have tried in the past to explain why what was posted was wrong and sometimes it was accepted and understood in the way I had hoped it would be. But many times I have been accused of being a naysayer and sometimes much worse for trying to help. Anyone that has taken the time to read some of my posts would know immediately that I do believe OU may be possible. I have even seen with my own eyes a couple of things I thought might be genuine events of OU.

So what is a person who has a strong background in electronics supposed to do when they see foolishness posted? Do you just ignore it and hope it doesn't lead too many people astray? Or do you try to help by pointing out the mistakes made by the poster or video or whatever is being presented? How can you help without coming across as a know-it-all as I was just called in another thread on this forum? I do know there are several members of this forum that are sincerely trying to learn and are open to help. But there are also some here that will put down anyone that tries to correct mistaken ideas. So what is the answer?

Please keep your comments civil with no name calling.

Respectfully,
Carroll
__________________
Just because someone disagrees with you does NOT make them your enemy. We can disagree without attacking someone. This means YOU especially BroMikey.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Please consider supporting Energetic Forum with a voluntary monthly subscription.

Choose your voluntary subscription

For one-time donations, please use the below button.


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v1.4.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2007-2015 Copyright - Energetic Forum - All Rights Reserved

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator

Tesla Chargers