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  #7981  
Old 09-18-2016, 08:51 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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conflict

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Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Then it is a clear example that the two images are in conflict...same book?

All I know that any coil you show me the positive wires climbing up towards your right hand fingers, your thumb will point the North pole face, period.

You go ahead and make that test, make a video and post it showing the opposite...simple.

Ufopolitics
Ufo,

The images are not from the same book and not in conflict with each other (as originals). You and your markings on those images are in conflict. It is common convention to use circles to represent conductors perpendicular to the plane of the paper (or screen) on which the drawing is made. If the current is pointed down (into the paper or screen) then an X is marked in that circle. If the current is pointed up or out of the paper or screen, then a dot is placed in the circle. The image labeled figure 4.17 is defined as a generator therefore in the armature current flows from negative to positive (like inside of a battery during discharge). The other image is defined as an electric machine and the direction of the armature currents are defined by the convention of circles with dots and crosses. Note on that diagram, rotation is specified for both motor and generator (being opposite each other).

Regards,

bi

ps. What does "positive wires climbing up" mean?
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  #7982  
Old 09-19-2016, 12:46 AM
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marathonman marathonman is offline
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Angry Plane ignorance.

Bistander'
"And don't you think there is something familiar about marathonman (MM) and MadMack (MM)."

Absolutely stupid and Ridiculous. i live in Texas, was born and raised in California, was in the military and served my Country and have NEVER EVER used or assumed a false identity. so please leave me out of your psychotic screwed up fantasies of deranged conspiracies.

please keep your comments to your self.

SORRY FOR THE WONDERFUL THREAD INTERRUPTION.

MM
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  #7983  
Old 09-19-2016, 02:35 PM
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Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
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Can not think of a more Simple Drawing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Ufo,

ps. What does "positive wires climbing up" mean?

Regards,

bi
Bistander,

Look at pic below...I honestly can not put it any simpler than that:

[IMG][/IMG]

In above simple drawing where it applies to any coil on this Planet...it simply means that if you set your Right Hand that way, at the time to start winding any coil...your thumb would be pointing to the North Pole, period.

I meant "Positive wires climbing toward your fingers"

If You start winding by turning wire the other way, (like shown on pic below) in order that positive flowing wires would be "leaving" your fingers, then you will have a South Pole pointing by your thumb.

[IMG][/IMG]

So, basically the reference we use are the positive flow at wound wires and our fingers relations to find which pole we are winding at the face of the armatures...it works and many here used it and work out fine.

P.D: I know perfectly well the symbology related to using the cross and the dot...it actually comes from the "arrow" convention...an old method where the "feathers" of the arrow is reflected with "X" and the dot (.) as the front end sharp point from arrow...

I really and honestly did not mean to create absolutely no conflicts with any other reference methods of Right Hand Rule(s)...like I wrote before, this was created by me, on this specific thread, to guide members who were winding motors, an easy method to go by, to help them wind a North or South Pole guidance reference in their armatures.


That was it. And I only hope it clear your concerns and doubts.


Regards


Ufopolitics
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Last edited by Ufopolitics; 09-19-2016 at 02:50 PM.
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  #7984  
Old 09-19-2016, 03:15 PM
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Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Bistander,

Look at pic below...I honestly can not put it any simpler than that:

[IMG][/IMG]

In above simple drawing where it applies to any coil on this Planet...it simply means that if you set your Right Hand that way, at the time to start winding any coil...your thumb would be pointing to the North Pole, period.

I meant "Positive wires climbing toward your fingers"

If You start winding by turning wire the other way, (like shown on pic below) in order that positive flowing wires would be "leaving" your fingers, then you will have a South Pole pointing by your thumb.

[IMG][/IMG]

So, basically the reference we use are the positive flow at wound wires and our fingers relations to find which pole we are winding at the face of the armatures...it works and many here used it and work out fine.

P.D: I know perfectly well the symbology related to using the cross and the dot...it actually comes from the "arrow" convention...an old method where the "feathers" of the arrow is reflected with "X" and the dot (.) as the front end sharp point from arrow...

I really and honestly did not mean to create absolutely no conflicts with any other reference methods of Right Hand Rule(s)...like I wrote before, this was created by me, on this specific thread, to guide members who were winding motors, an easy method to go by, to help them wind a North or South Pole guidance reference in their armatures.


That was it. And I only hope it clear your concerns and doubts.


Regards


Ufopolitics
@All,

This Positive Flow of currents directions from above two images, forms Two different Vortexes or Spirals in each of the different wound Coils...And it happens that according to all my tests... when facing a straight Horizontal line B&W CRT with a North or a South, I obtained exactly the same magnetic spinning direction as the current flow and hand rule shows:


Meaning if you turn that North Pole Coil (or magnet) against the screen of a CRT with just a horizontal line on screen, it will deflect towards the left, or CCW Rotation on screen.

[IMG][/IMG]

However, if you face a South Pole towards same CRT Screen-Line..the rasterized electron beam horizontal line would deflect towards the Right, meaning CW Rotation...:

[IMG][/IMG]

Finally, if you observe the whole thing...would realize both poles, North and South are only turning but in One Direction, and it is just our perception trying to distinguish one from the other...which thinks they are "opposite"...

[IMG][/IMG]

Remember, everything is relative, and depends upon the point of view observing it...


Regards and


Ufopolitics
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Last edited by Ufopolitics; 09-23-2016 at 02:41 PM.
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  #7985  
Old 09-19-2016, 06:30 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Rules? Who needs them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Bistander,

Look at pic below...I honestly can not put it any simpler than that:

[IMG][/IMG]

In above simple drawing where it applies to any coil on this Planet...it simply means that if you set your Right Hand that way, at the time to start winding any coil...your thumb would be pointing to the North Pole, period.

I meant "Positive wires climbing toward your fingers"

If You start winding by turning wire the other way, (like shown on pic below) in order that positive flowing wires would be "leaving" your fingers, then you will have a South Pole pointing by your thumb.

[IMG][/IMG]

So, basically the reference we use are the positive flow at wound wires and our fingers relations to find which pole we are winding at the face of the armatures...it works and many here used it and work out fine.

P.D: I know perfectly well the symbology related to using the cross and the dot...it actually comes from the "arrow" convention...an old method where the "feathers" of the arrow is reflected with "X" and the dot (.) as the front end sharp point from arrow...

I really and honestly did not mean to create absolutely no conflicts with any other reference methods of Right Hand Rule(s)...like I wrote before, this was created by me, on this specific thread, to guide members who were winding motors, an easy method to go by, to help them wind a North or South Pole guidance reference in their armatures.


That was it. And I only hope it clear your concerns and doubts.


Regards


Ufopolitics
Hi Ufo,

Thank you for the detailed reply. So you admit you made up your own right-hand rule. It never occurred to you to use the conventional rule which has been used for decades and is easily found? You had a 50/50 chance to get it right, but didn't.

I have thought for a long time that you just make it up as you go. This comfirms it.

Regards,

bi
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  #7986  
Old 09-19-2016, 09:17 PM
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Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi Ufo,

Thank you for the detailed reply. So you admit you made up your own right-hand rule. It never occurred to you to use the conventional rule which has been used for decades and is easily found? You had a 50/50 chance to get it right, but didn't.

I have thought for a long time that you just make it up as you go. This comfirms it.

Regards,

bi

You are welcome Bistander,

The "conventional" Right Hand Rule brings along parameters (Vectors basically) which are not required in order just to find which pole is North and which is South based on your winding turns direction and current flow.

B Fields brings confusions, since it travels (as you wrote previously) on the external of magnet or electromagnet in one direction, to then travel the opposite direction inside magnet or iron core...

Force? We do not need force vectors in order to wind in just specific poles of an armature...

After all these are just "Reference Methods"...nothing more, as they do not give a rational answer nor explanation as to why it takes place "that way"...


Ufopolitics
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  #7987  
Old 09-19-2016, 09:29 PM
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sampojo sampojo is offline
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A video demonstration of the violation of the right-hand rule

Nice diagrams and discussion so far guys, but nothing conclusive. We should be able to communicate to each other a physical law of nature, however. Here I think I am showing Ufopolitics diagrams correct again with some fairly solid proof. I think Ufo's diagrams are more like a left hand rule.

Here is the diagram I have used to wind my Baldor with the right hand rule strictly applied.



This is a corrected figure now with bullet 1 properly stating that the winding direction + to - is CCW.

Out of my college physics text Haliday & Resnick, "Fundamental Physics" the rule is stated:

"Grasp the wire with the right hand, the thumb pointing in the direction of the current. The fingers will curl around the wire in the direction of B"

Where B is the magnetic field vector, + is North.

My video demonstrates that my motor is wound exactly in accordance with my diagram, and that putting the fingers in the direction of the current is the same as the thumb. And my video, dis-assembling the coil shows it throwing a South pole as opposed to a North pole. I goofed in the last statement of direction, I should have said COUNTER CLOCKWISE.





Looking at Ufopolitics diagram, just the North oriented half for a unipolar design, it is suspiciously oriented in opposition to the strict interpretation of the right-hand rule.



I thought it had a violation of the right-hand rule. I thought the fingers should go in the direction of the current, and and altered my diagram accordingly. At 30% mark, I tested its performance and found it to rotate CCW, when it was supposed to go CW.

Is our text-book interpretation of the right hand rule correct? What could be wrong on my design then?
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  #7988  
Old 09-20-2016, 04:03 AM
bistander bistander is offline
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Right-hand rule

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Originally Posted by sampojo View Post
Is our text-book interpretation of the right hand rule correct? What could be wrong on my design then?
Hi Sam,

I haven't seen anything wrong in the video yet. I'll take a closer look on a larger screen. Have you verified your compass hasn't been remagnetized by testing it to point correctly towards geographical North? Also please tell coil resistance and turns. Is the coil isolated from the core (not grounded)?

I've used the textbook right-hand rule thousands of times and never been wrong. Just a few hours ago I put 45 Amps thru an 8 turn air core coil and it attracted the proper end of the compass pointer per the textbook right-hand rule. The books are correct.

Have you got another coil you can test with that compass?

Regards,

bi
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  #7989  
Old 09-20-2016, 06:25 AM
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sampojo sampojo is offline
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Compass Remagnitzed

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Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi Sam,

I haven't seen anything wrong in the video yet. I'll take a closer look on a larger screen. Have you verified your compass hasn't been remagnetized by testing it to point correctly towards geographical North? Also please tell coil resistance and turns. Is the coil isolated from the core (not grounded)?

I've used the textbook right-hand rule thousands of times and never been wrong. Just a few hours ago I put 45 Amps thru an 8 turn air core coil and it attracted the proper end of the compass pointer per the textbook right-hand rule. The books are correct.

Have you got another coil you can test with that compass?

Regards,

bi
Good catch Bi!!! I was quite surprised to walk out the door and see the stupid compass pointing SOUTH!!!! Too much time laying around some Neo apparently. I had considered it in the back of my mind but had never heard of such a thing and dismissed the idea. Nah can't be,I said. Oh it be, allright!!

Thanks for all the effort and I apologize for all the fuss it has caused.

Sam
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  #7990  
Old 09-20-2016, 06:30 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Remag compass

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Originally Posted by sampojo View Post
Good catch Bi!!! I was quite surprised to walk out the door and see the stupid compass pointing SOUTH!!!! Too much time laying around some Neo apparently. I had considered it in the back of my mind but had never heard of such a thing and dismissed the idea. Nah can't be,I said. Oh it be, allright!!

Thanks for all the effort and I apologize for all the fuss it has caused.

Sam
Hi sam,

Well, I'm glad that is resolved. I was kinda worried about remag when I saw you stick the compass inside the PM stator. Inside, between the 2 magnet sectors there is quite a strong B field enhanced with the outer steel tube. If the compass is inserted quickly, the field latches onto the pointer whichever way it is directed and imposes its own polarity. From there, due to strength and size, the field in the steel compass pointer is driven into magnetic saturation (or thereabouts) reversed from its original magnetization direction. Once removed from the stator, the steel in the compass pointer settles to the residual of the opposite polarity (from the original) and the compass is now seeking the S geo pole instead of N.



See the B-H curve above. The compass pointer steel originally is at Br and works in quadrant II. After the remagnetization, the steel is at -Br and works in quadrant IV. I think I got that right. Been a long time since I used B-H stuff.

Oh, I wanted to say. You may be able to remag your compass back to normal by getting it into the stator pointing the other way. Perhaps use a small magnet to keep it pointed until you can get it inside the stator.

Regards.

bi
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  #7991  
Old 09-21-2016, 03:16 PM
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Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
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Bistander...

Hello Bistander,

You know what Bistander?

I hate You!!!


Just kidding...I did not mean it...I just hate You for the fact you were so F Right!!!


You were completely right about EVERYTHING related to Currents directions, Pole Directions and the darn Classical Right Hand Rule!!!

I had the same EXACT Compass F**KED UP piece of crap as Sampojo had...same "syndrome"...!!

And the worst part is that I have heck of Digital Compasses which automatically self calibrate as soon as you take them for a ride...but know what?...never used them to check polarities on magnets...maybe thinking they won't read them...but they do.

BUT NOPE... I was using the pieces of crap small needle compasses...and got polarities all reversed. And that is the reason why I made that "other" Right Hand WRONG CRAP.

The work I have now is multiplied by I don't know how much...I am just glad I did not get to upload the CRT Video and Polarities with all animations which now...I will have to redo from scratch...

I am also glad I never dare to say that Ken Wheeler had his Magnetic Polarities wrong on his book related to CW and CCW...because he did not...and I was the only one FULLY WRONG!!!!


I was trying to makke a video showing the polarities versus currents running directions....and decided to use the digital compass since I saw what happened to Sam...same sh*T, different color.


So, I do owe you a BIG TIME Apology for my mistake here, as for being so stubborn, just trusting a piece of crap Compass...


My Diagrams as that CRT Video and Pictures related to it above are ALL reversed...I was "coding" all my magnet polarities and so videos based on TWO reversed compasses....


Regards and A BIG THANKS for correcting all of Us here with so much patience.



Ufopolitics
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  #7992  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:49 AM
Dwane Dwane is offline
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Motor Only

Hi Ufo

I have a question, I am wondering if there is any advantage with using your symbiotic winding system for the generator motor design to wind a motor only and using the feed back from each winding to assist with energising the power supply to the motor. I have built a circuit based on the Cold electricity from the "My Motors got me to Tap into Radiant Energy" thread. I have connected a a small DC motor - a MY8029 - across the output Cap and it runs fast and smoothly. I am not certain what "Real Time" voltage or current is being supplied. The cold voltage does things differently. Although, coil size, pulse width and pulse current do seem to have a significant control over the output and its availability

Thank you

Dwane
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  #7993  
Old 04-24-2017, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwane View Post
Hi Ufo

I have a question, I am wondering if there is any advantage with using your symbiotic winding system for the generator motor design to wind a motor only and using the feed back from each winding to assist with energising the power supply to the motor.
Hello Dwane,

In a series of three videos that I would list below, I have shown that it is possible to feed source while motor is running.

And I do not know if you are familiar with Super Caps... but they need pretty strong currents to start rising a charge, basically if starting from a zero charge Cap, where they are completely shorted out and giving full continuity readings through their terminals.



On above video you will see motor climbing up in RPM's while Source (2 AA Ni Batteries) are also increasing up and Super cap.

Sorry about music changes and sometimes being too loud...I already fired that Sound Engineer...

Also more testing on other set ups...



And



They all gave me positive results.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwane View Post
I have built a circuit based on the Cold electricity from the "My Motors got me to Tap into Radiant Energy" thread. I have connected a a small DC motor - a MY8029 - across the output Cap and it runs fast and smoothly. I am not certain what "Real Time" voltage or current is being supplied. The cold voltage does things differently. Although, coil size, pulse width and pulse current do seem to have a significant control over the output and its availability

Thank you

Dwane
Absolutely it all depends on the kind of set up spec's you are working with Dwane...


Thanks


Ufopolitics
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  #7994  
Old 04-25-2017, 12:42 AM
GlenWV GlenWV is offline
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P66 Armature Wind

Ready to be taken to a motor rewind shop for balancing. (at last...)

glenWV
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  #7995  
Old 04-25-2017, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenWV View Post
Ready to be taken to a motor rewind shop for balancing. (at last...)

glenWV
WOW Glen, Beautiful job, your my hero.

Warmest Regards Cornboy.
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  #7996  
Old 04-25-2017, 12:40 PM
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Imperial P66 Asymmetric Winding

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Originally Posted by GlenWV View Post
Ready to be taken to a motor rewind shop for balancing. (at last...)

glenWV

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
Hey Glen nice job!!, nice looking machine there!

I believe you made it an "All North" wind type correct?

Guess it is part of the balancing process to sand-smooth the outer rotor steel laminates, meaning to lathe-cut-rectify the green epoxy so it runs smooth within stators right?

As am sure you have conducted a continuity-resistance test between each comm element to each coil group.

Waiting to see it running friend, excellent!!


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #7997  
Old 04-30-2017, 09:02 AM
Dwane Dwane is offline
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Hi UFO,
Thank you for taking the time to explain to me what I require!

I have been a bit lazy. I had not reached Page 96 where you show a link to a video that is very similar to what I am hoping to be doing. http://www.energeticforum.com/redire...ure%3Dyoutu.be.

Am I correct in seeing that you are using the driven generator to charge the batteries? Your accent is a bit thick for me to understand at times also with the noise from the coupled drive.

I like the solution above by GlenWV using all north poles. Somewhat similar to the output of John Bedini's free energy generator. But, in this case using dedicated wound coils to explicitly get the job done.

This is looking good for the design I am working with.

Thank you

Dwane
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  #7998  
Old 05-02-2017, 05:00 AM
Dwane Dwane is offline
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Is this suitable?

Hi UFO,
Please excuse my comments on your accent, I have a slight hearing impediment and miss bits of speech. The video is excellent!

I picked up this Baldor armature for another project - now shelved - a couple of years ago. I have no stator for it. It was rescued from a burnt out motor. It has 28 windings and 56 commutator sections, so I am pleased to see the wiring for this configuration has been demonstrated. It is a heavy cow! It might originally been 3HP.at 90 volts or180 volts. I got it from my local motor winders who were given it as a repair job that did not proceed.

What has really taken my fancy is your fibre glass stator. Do you think that I would be able to run this armature as you have shown in your videos with a fibre glass stator. I am hoping to utilise it similarly to your combination drive generator page 96.

Also, when rewinding this as asymetric, would I use the same guage of wire that is already on the armature?

Many thanks

Dwane
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