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  #7951  
Old 03-07-2016, 03:04 PM
GlenWV GlenWV is offline
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P66 motor

Greetings:

At long last, after several hacks at winding ...... the P66 armature is ready to go to a 'Real' motor shop for tweaking and vacuum pressure impregnating.

I have two P56 motors waiting in the wings, and I may modify one of those. So, what is the 'final latest and greatest' winding config for the P56? (I have all those posts in my 'UFO motor notebook' somewhere, but would rather ask to see if there are any updates.)

Pics attached, and will post more pics when the armature come home for final assembly.

glen
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  #7952  
Old 04-04-2016, 05:13 PM
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sampojo sampojo is offline
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Take 2 on designing in the motor rotation

Glen, sweet looking rotors!

Redid my diagram as best I could, and this is how things came out. So I think to get a motor to rotate CW with this magnet arrangement, I need the + terminal at the rear and the windings to be mechanically wrapped CW, starting from the front comm element. Outer commutator ring would be the front of the motor.





I think I would prefer to have the front of the motor defined as the positive connection however. In that case the winding would start at bullet 1 and be CCW, and the geometry of starting the winding where the dark blue wire originates from the black dot on the outer comm changes, going to the other side of the line representing that specific sub-coil. In winding, I believe I must end up on the lightest blue single coil on top as the last coil wound. OK clear for me now I think...
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  #7953  
Old 05-20-2016, 01:33 PM
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sampojo sampojo is offline
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Winding my Baldor

5 coils completed (25%), get only 2 per day max so far. Looking OK so far regards to enough room, but should definitely fill up the rotor with copper. Using 5-filar wire, strands 30ga, 52.5', something greater than 1 ohm per coil, at 9.6'/ohm-strand. At seven subcoils per coil, I mark out each subcoil at 90" with a piece of tape and roll into the next subcoil when I hit the tape. In this picture, you can see how much wire is building up between the commutator and the rotor, which you can use to estimate if you are going to be able to complete the wind.



In this photo, you can see the 5-filar wire on the side. I guess I need to do a volume estimate of wire per rotor pole gap, as Prochiro has always recommended... Showing 1.1 ohm per coil on the meter.
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  #7954  
Old 06-17-2016, 01:00 AM
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Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sampojo View Post
5 coils completed (25%), get only 2 per day max so far. Looking OK so far regards to enough room, but should definitely fill up the rotor with copper. Using 5-filar wire, strands 30ga, 52.5', something greater than 1 ohm per coil, at 9.6'/ohm-strand. At seven subcoils per coil, I mark out each subcoil at 90" with a piece of tape and roll into the next subcoil when I hit the tape. In this picture, you can see how much wire is building up between the commutator and the rotor, which you can use to estimate if you are going to be able to complete the wind.



In this photo, you can see the 5-filar wire on the side. I guess I need to do a volume estimate of wire per rotor pole gap, as Prochiro has always recommended... Showing 1.1 ohm per coil on the meter.
Excellent work Sam!!

Hoping to see it running soon!


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #7955  
Old 06-17-2016, 01:18 AM
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Just a Reminder of an old Video...

Hello Guys...I am still around...

Just a reminder of what an Imperial P56 N-S Pair Wind Coils could do at 12Volts, small battery...(WERKER WKDC1233 [12V/33Ah])...



IMPERIAL_RPMS_TEST_12V

And some clarification about "Coils"...in general, but basically applied to Asymm Motors performance.

A Single Coil projects a Magnetic Field at a specific Space/Time for its On period

A Pair of Coils in series is nothing more than a Single Coil's Magnetic Field spread-elongated over Space/Time which depends on the Circumference Area of core (# of elements involved) generating a wider Angle of Interaction than a Single Coil, unless that Single Coil is wrapped on the same # of elements as the Pair is...

A Group of Coils in series is also a Single Coil's Field spread-elongated over Space/Time... except, more compacted and longer area-angle could be achieved...therefore, higher RPM's...speed.

I really do not have the time to Graph this out in a simple "Linear" CAD over Time...but you guys could do it yourself as an exercise...

Regards to All.


Ufopolitics
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  #7956  
Old 06-20-2016, 11:30 AM
ron48 ron48 is offline
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Been waiting years still hoping you will show your latest and greatest creation all my best wishes ufo ron. Hopefully you will blow my socks of lol
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  #7957  
Old 06-22-2016, 03:04 AM
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Baldor redesign contemplated

I have ground to a halt on the motor as I am rebuilding and souping up my computer and backup systems. Just killed a motherboard bios so time is a factor. Meanwhile the tankless water heater needs refurbed and cleaned, new plumbing...

So on the baldor, I have run some numbers to estimate how full the rotor gaps will be with my 5-wire 30ga multi-filar. I have an idea of the actual rate of filling as I have 6 coils wound, 3ea on opposite sides. Fill-up rate looks like I will have good room, but my calculation came in less than 50% full. And this multi-filar looks like it comes in at an equivalent of only 23ga wire. Pretty light I think. The wire that came off the motor I measure at about .028" diam. or 21ga. This comes in at 78' per ohm. Looks like I should increase the number of wires to 7 or 8 or go with a heavier gauge altogether. It looks like my winding calculation is telling me I can make my wire that heavy, and each coil resulting in a big increase in length too. If you add a strand of 30ga, ends up you simply add another 10ft of coil length. So I got to rethink it, recalc it etc. to make sure. Winding of course has stopped.

Another thing is one coil subtends 12 poles and there are 7 sub-coils per coil. This leads to an unevenness in wrapping. So I think I will redesign to 10 poles per coil and 5 poles per subcoil making things nice and even for a 20 pole motor?


Ufo, would you have any concerns changing the wrapping style as such?

Regards,

Sampojo

PS: I ran the motor on the 6 coils and of course it went the opposite direction I thought it would!?!
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  #7958  
Old 06-25-2016, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sampojo View Post

Another thing is one coil subtends 12 poles and there are 7 sub-coils per coil. This leads to an unevenness in wrapping. So I think I will redesign to 10 poles per coil and 5 poles per subcoil making things nice and even for a 20 pole motor?


Ufo, would you have any concerns changing the wrapping style as such?

Regards,

Sampojo

PS: I ran the motor on the 6 coils and of course it went the opposite direction I thought it would!?!

Hey Sam,

Sorry for the time to respond, being very busy...

I particularly like the windings being as even as the # of rotor poles area/circumference versus Stator circumference relation allows, trying that they maintain a more or less equal measurements ...So, if that relation is pretty close by doing the 10-5 in your 20 poles rotor...I rather use that one.

On the resistance relation when using finer wire than OEM, remember that the higher the ohms per coil circuit, the more voltage it would be required but the lesser amperage it will draw, The start up will not be that strong as with lower resistance, and it will develop speed/torque at certain op time. So it depends on which application you will be using it for.

Hope this will help you...wanna see that Baldor running!!


Warm regards my friend!


Ufopolitics
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  #7959  
Old 08-08-2016, 09:28 PM
arch chicken arch chicken is offline
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light peace and love to all

Ufo.....
Thank you for your dedicated focused release of this tech........I am always following in back ground and am astounded by all achieved so far.....
I have been collecting and compiling all of your threads into pdf format...problem is ....there is no relaese date......Yoy keep on writing new chapters!
Keep it up!
Oh...and congrats on the way you are handling this particular thread.........how did you get erfinder to be so plassid!......
I have replicated all so far....including your timeless motor.......but I have still to do the all north poled desighn......dumbass like me needs a lever to get my head arround the wiring diagram

The imperial motor has caused me to twice land in hospital from shear exilliration.........build myself a trike from scrap bycicles and power it with said motor.......
If it wasn't for this particular thread I would have been unemployed and on streets.....what can I say but a heartfelt thank you sir!


SALUTE COMPADRE!
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  #7960  
Old 08-08-2016, 09:42 PM
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Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arch chicken View Post
Ufo.....
Thank you for your dedicated focused release of this tech........I am always following in back ground and am astounded by all achieved so far.....
I have been collecting and compiling all of your threads into pdf format...problem is ....there is no relaese date......Yoy keep on writing new chapters!
Keep it up!
Oh...and congrats on the way you are handling this particular thread.........how did you get erfinder to be so plassid!......
I have replicated all so far....including your timeless motor.......but I have still to do the all north poled desighn......dumbass like me needs a lever to get my head arround the wiring diagram

The imperial motor has caused me to twice land in hospital from shear exilliration.........build myself a trike from scrap bycicles and power it with said motor.......
If it wasn't for this particular thread I would have been unemployed and on streets.....what can I say but a heartfelt thank you sir!


SALUTE COMPADRE!
My pleasure Arch,

Very glad you are doing fine!

When you try the All North...is gonna be even more fun...so make sure you are prepared for it...


Kind regards friend


Ufopolitics
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  #7961  
Old 08-13-2016, 01:36 PM
arch chicken arch chicken is offline
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Originally Posted by DadHav View Post
Hello Arch, That could be pretty good news. If I understand your statement, you are manufacturing a bike to electric bike conversion and using motors based on the asymmetric designs posted on this thread? If you are doing this there would be a lot of people who would like more information about your motor conversion. If you have something that is tested and an improvement over the standard OEM it would be very kind of you to share some information.
John
Hi dadhave.....sorry for delayed answer......bit bussy these days......
Ill get som vids and fotos together showing what i do with converting bicycles into electric bicycles.....its easy though.....i use the threepoled desighn on a car radiator fan motor......realy strong torque there.....then i mount it onto a plate shaped to fit into frame of said bicycle.....this plate has two brackets fit to take two motorcycle baterys....one on each side......after that its real simple.....take front sprocket and mount it to motor......lengten the chain a bit and fit onto motor......basic motor speed controll and bobs your uncle!

Ill post some photos showing what i did as soon as i can.......
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  #7962  
Old 09-10-2016, 03:27 PM
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Asymmetric pulse wheel-motor generator on a bicycle :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3_xvqR5QxA
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  #7963  
Old 09-17-2016, 06:34 AM
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Going to try to get my Baldor restarted

Hey Ufo,

Kinda ground to a halt when I realized I miscalculated my multifilar gauge needs, with 6 coils wrapped. I got the motor together to do a test spin and it went the wrong direction than planned. so I pulled in your post from p265. Just looking at the North pole, it looked like you had the right hand rule wrong. If you look at my post 7952 diagram this page, you can see I reversed it. This is blowing my mind. I pulled out my physics books and studied online and my diagram still seems to agree with the texts, but my motor is still going in the wrong direction and the coils are throwing a South pole not a North pole!!! So your diagram is still king!!

Was up till 5AM recently going over a wire recalculation. Looking at a bifilar 24ga wire now. I think it gets me to 21 ga by wire cross-sectional area, but equals the original 19 ga in conductor surface area. My calculations are showing this rotor can't hold enough wire to get to one ohm per coil using a wire that approximates the 19 ga in cross-section area. And I want to get over an ohm, about 1.1 or 1.2. Going to do a test wind on one rotor void area. A fully filled rotor void I have figured will take 270 to 320 strands of 24ga. Also going with a coil that subtends only 10 poles, not 12, with only 6 subcoils each subtending only 5 poles not 6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Hello Sam, great to see you as to know you also have some time now!

That would be an interesting motor when finished, am sure off.

Now remember that the terms CW or CCW are completely relative and dependent from the reference point you are setting your watch/clock...

For example take a look at this old diagram when we were winding N-S Pairs, but just focus on the North/Blue side:

[IMG][/IMG]

Normally our reference point has always been the side of shaft where we are connecting to take power off, remember?

[IMG][/IMG]

Above same image without the hand reference method.

So let's say you will start from the positive(+)commutator, which, at the same token is where power take off Shaft is, meaning on graphic, the top starting point (1). So the North Pole would be aiming towards screen, and if you set your watch with the clock needles shaft also pointing towards screen, then it would be a CW winding. However, if you set the watch shaft aiming away from screen...then that same winding direc tion would be CCW...see why it is all relative?

To play safe just do one set of windings first hooked to both comm elements...then power up coils with a small battery source and read outward magnetic orientation on both cores...

Hope all this free time will allow you to complete the whole thing...it seems you have all the mechanical structure already finished...so it is just winding and connections to commutators, then fire it up...


Kind regards


Ufopolitics
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  #7964  
Old 09-17-2016, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sampojo View Post
Hey Ufo,

Kinda ground to a halt when I realized I miscalculated my multifilar gauge needs, with 6 coils wrapped. I got the motor together to do a test spin and it went the wrong direction than planned. so I pulled in your post from p265. Just looking at the North pole, it looked like you had the right hand rule wrong. If you look at my post 7952 diagram this page, you can see I reversed it. This is blowing my mind. I pulled out my physics books and studied online and my diagram still seems to agree with the texts, but my motor is still going in the wrong direction and the coils are throwing a South pole not a North pole!!! So your diagram is still king!!
Hey Sam!

I am glad you have realized the proper way to obtain the right magnetic polarities.

Sometimes, -if the structure of motor allows you to- by making either a Full 180 reversal of Stator's Housing, leaving brushes in the same place, this will reverse your rotation. Or the same reversal of rotation could be achieved by just rotating 180 the brushes caps, leaving stators in the same position...just two simple ways to reverse rotation by changing either the static plane or the brush plane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sampojo View Post
Was up till 5AM recently going over a wire recalculation. Looking at a bifilar 24ga wire now. I think it gets me to 21 ga by wire cross-sectional area, but equals the original 19 ga in conductor surface area. My calculations are showing this rotor can't hold enough wire to get to one ohm per coil using a wire that approximates the 19 ga in cross-section area. And I want to get over an ohm, about 1.1 or 1.2. Going to do a test wind on one rotor void area. A fully filled rotor void I have figured will take 270 to 320 strands of 24ga. Also going with a coil that subtends only 10 poles, not 12, with only 6 subcoils each subtending only 5 poles not 6.
Sorry about that!...now before you keep going, measure your brushes resistance per each vertical -in line- connection, remember brushes are in series related to each coil being energized, so they will add up, and sometimes they will get you over the 1 ohm resistance per interaction, if there is not much difference.


Kind Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #7965  
Old 09-17-2016, 03:03 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Rotation

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Originally Posted by sampojo View Post


Hi sam,

Your diagram of the right hand rule is correct as shown above. However the diagram on the right showing rotation is backwards. With the armature North pointed downward in the stator field pointed to the left*, rotation is CW.**

bi

After 2 edits. It must be that the armature North actually points upwards causing the actual rotation to be CCW.
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Last edited by bistander; 09-17-2016 at 05:17 PM. Reason: *was right. Thanks Ufo,**was CCW
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  #7966  
Old 09-17-2016, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi sam,

Your diagram of the right hand rule is correct as shown above.However the diagram on the right showing rotation is backwards. With the armature North pointed downward in the stator field pointed to the right, rotation is CCW.

bi
Hello Bistander,

I believe you are not interpreting the right diagram correctly...

The two Stator Polarizations (Red=South, Blue=North) are meaning to be pointing Inwards, towards rotor, (we are not reflecting the outwards pointing polarizations, since they do not take any direct role in the motor action) and not like you are understanding "stator field pointing to the right".

As the image that Sampojo modified from mine on left is NOT correct, related to the flow of currents (from positive to negative) it will generate a South Field that way, pointing out of screen...and not a North (he reversed the voltage polarities) so, on his motor drawing on right was going opposite than he planned because he wound a South instead of a North at rotor. (read his previous post again)

Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #7967  
Old 09-17-2016, 04:02 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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I made a mistake

Thanks Ufo. Edit made. I meant my other left.

But you are incorrect about the right hand rule.

bi
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  #7968  
Old 09-17-2016, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Thanks Ufo. Edit made. I meant my other left.

But you are incorrect about the right hand rule.

bi
Your new edited post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi sam,

Your diagram of the right hand rule is correct as shown above. However the diagram on the right showing rotation is backwards. With the armature North pointed downward in the stator field pointed to the left*, rotation is CCW.

bi
You are still wrong...

If the North Stator at Right (Blue) is pointing inwards towards Center of Rotor, and the Rotor is producing a down North the rotation is CW.

North Stator is repulsing (pushing) Rotor North, as Rotor North is also attracted to seek center alignment with Left South(red) Stator.

Besides this "seen" interactions... there are another one -not seen- taking place in the back of Rotor North (a South), which gets repelled by South Stator and attracted by North Stator.

About the "Right Hand Rule", related to Magnetic Polarities and current flow...am not going to argue about it with you here...

If You really are seeking the truth, just do the simple experiment yourself...wind a coil considering that positive would be pointing towards your hand fingers while you wind, not your thumb...then energize the coil and check polarity on that face.

If you still see it opposite polarity...then you are considering the Geographical pole is the same as the Magnetic Earth Pole on your compass...

A Compass "N" is just a Magnetic South Seeking Pole...meaning a Compass "N" is a North Pole...and not a South like other billions of people believe...


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #7969  
Old 09-17-2016, 05:05 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Coil polarity

To Ufo and all (who might be interested),

Do a Google search for: coil magnetic polarity using right-hand rule. Hit the image icon. You will see nearly a hundred images agreeing with my take on the right-hand rule and one single image agreeing with Ufo. And that one image is from the Energeticforum, a post by Ufo himself, so it's likely he drew it.

Regards,

bi
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  #7970  
Old 09-17-2016, 06:45 PM
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To Ufo and all (who might be interested),

Do a Google search for: coil magnetic polarity using right-hand rule. Hit the image icon. You will see nearly a hundred images agreeing with my take on the right-hand rule and one single image agreeing with Ufo. And that one image is from the Energeticforum, a post by Ufo himself, so it's likely he drew it.

Regards,

bi
Wow!...that means that I am the "one and only" guy who is correct among so many people??!!

I bet you ask all those people who made those drawings wrong...how many motors have they assembled from scratch or even wound any motor at all...and you would be surprised none of them have ever touched a motor in their life time...except to turn their switches on or off.

I will repeat what Citfta have on the signature...
Quote:
"Just because it is on You Tube doesn't means it is true...
"

But instead I will write it with "Google" instead of "You Tube"...and as a matter of fact they are the same exact thing...Google bought out You Tube...

Bistander, the only thing I do believe blindly -related to Physics Concepts and all this Fields- are completely true, are only on my own experiments.

So, make the experiment yourself...like Sampojo did:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sampojo View Post
Hey Ufo,

Kinda ground to a halt when I realized I miscalculated my multifilar gauge needs, with 6 coils wrapped. I got the motor together to do a test spin and it went the wrong direction than planned. so I pulled in your post from p265. Just looking at the North pole, it looked like you had the right hand rule wrong. If you look at my post 7952 diagram this page, you can see I reversed it. This is blowing my mind. I pulled out my physics books and studied online and my diagram still seems to agree with the texts, but my motor is still going in the wrong direction and the coils are throwing a South pole not a North pole!!! So your diagram is still king!!
Take care Bistander


Ufopolitics
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Last edited by Ufopolitics; 09-17-2016 at 06:57 PM.
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  #7971  
Old 09-17-2016, 07:13 PM
DadHav DadHav is offline
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Originally Posted by arch chicken View Post
Hi dadhave.....sorry for delayed answer......bit bussy these days......
Ill get som vids and fotos together showing what i do with converting bicycles into electric bicycles.....its easy though.....i use the threepoled desighn on a car radiator fan motor......realy strong torque there.....then i mount it onto a plate shaped to fit into frame of said bicycle.....this plate has two brackets fit to take two motorcycle baterys....one on each side......after that its real simple.....take front sprocket and mount it to motor......lengten the chain a bit and fit onto motor......basic motor speed controll and bobs your uncle!

Ill post some photos showing what i did as soon as i can.......
Hello Arch, Good luck with your test. Do you have an OEM motor as well as a modified to make a comparison? All you have to do is make your vehicle with the modification go further using the same battery drain as the one with the OEM. Going faster for a short distance might not mean a modification is better.
Thanks for answering me.
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Old 09-17-2016, 07:43 PM
DadHav DadHav is offline
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Originally Posted by ewizard View Post
Asymmetric pulse wheel-motor generator on a bicycle :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3_xvqR5QxA
Hello E, I'm not sure who else may comment on your post but there is some merit, in my opinion, about the posted video. It looks like he is using hub motors which I think is really optimal for bikes and other light weight vehicles. secondly it seems he is not claiming over unity but rather a savings in current draw. You know nothing is acceptable without more proof than what the video depicts but it is possible. I have experimented myself with this type motor and experienced a substantial savings of current draw while feeding back generator coil potential from a pulsed circuit. It was just a small motor and circuit test that accidentally showed me it was possible. So there might be something there.
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Old 09-17-2016, 08:19 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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additional reference

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Wow!...that means that I am the "one and only" guy who is correct among so many people??!!

I bet you ask all those people who made those drawings wrong...how many motors have they assembled from scratch or even wound any motor at all...and you would be surprised none of them have ever touched a motor in their life time...except to turn their switches on or off.

I will repeat what Citfta have on the signature...[/I]"

But instead I will write it with "Google" instead of "You Tube"...and as a matter of fact they are the same exact thing...Google bought out You Tube...

Bistander, the only thing I do believe blindly -related to Physics Concepts and all this Fields- are completely true, are only on my own experiments.

So, make the experiment yourself...like Sampojo did:



Take care Bistander


Ufopolitics
Hi Ufo,

I thought you had come around to the conventional way of thinking when you posted this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Below is a CAD on the Static Armature plus the Rotor Magnetic Polarity MOMENTARY Map.

[IMG][/IMG]
And no, I don't just rely on Google or the internet for my knowledge base.

http://prof.usb.ve/jaller/Fitzgerald.pdf

This is a great reference and text book on which we agreed in another thread. I happened to find it on line for your convenience. I have the 3th edition beside my computer here. See page 3, figure 1.1. It agrees with my interpretation of field polarity with respect to current direction in the coil.

And later it that book, this figure confirming direction of rotation. Note the text above the figure. It is a generator so the indicated rotation is opposite from a motor.



Regards,

bi
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  #7974  
Old 09-17-2016, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi Ufo,

I thought you had come around to the conventional way of thinking when you posted this.
Bistander,

I have no idea why you are posting that Img here?...it is a Static Armature, and center rotor from a Generator, and am just showing the full magnetic links there because it is required to know that for the generator understanding purposes.

In a motor it is not required...as outer poles are not directly related to motor function, that was the very first convention that we all agree on when I started posting my graphics on this thread.



Quote:
And no, I don't just rely on Google or the internet for my knowledge base.

http://prof.usb.ve/jaller/Fitzgerald.pdf

This is a great reference and text book on which we agreed in another thread. I happened to find it on line for your convenience. I have the 3th edition beside my computer here. See page 3, figure 1.1. It agrees with my interpretation of field polarity with respect to current direction in the coil.

And later it that book, this figure confirming direction of rotation. Note the text above the figure. It is a generator so the indicated rotation is opposite from a motor.

Regards,

bi
Bistander,


Look again at that picture...

[IMG][/IMG]

Please take look at the spot where the positive fed wire is coming towards screen...and attaches to positive brush feeding it through commutator.

Now look at a Right hand above DC Machine..:

[IMG][/IMG]

It is exactly like the image I have shown before (except this image is looking from above at machine), where positive is running toward my fingers...

So, that image is perfectly right, it is in complete agreement with mine...so, I am correct...so many thanks Bistander!!

At least you have found one more that agrees with me in all this hundreds of wrong images...

Sorry, but I do not have the time to keep arguing with you here...go chase SidL...or BroMikey since you were missing him so much...

Take care


Ufopolitics
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Last edited by Ufopolitics; 09-17-2016 at 10:37 PM.
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  #7975  
Old 09-18-2016, 03:36 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Right-hand rule

Hi Ufo,

A response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Bistander,

I have no idea why you are posting that Img here?...it is a Static Armature, and center rotor from a Generator, and am just showing the full magnetic links there because it is required to know that for the generator understanding purposes.

In a motor it is not required...as outer poles are not directly related to motor function, that was the very first convention that we all agree on when I started posting my graphics on this thread.
The right-hand rule applies to all induced fields by current carrying coils. I have no idea what you're talking about "outer poles" and agreed upon graphics. Please refer to that specific post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Bistander,


Look again at that picture...

[IMG][/IMG]

Please take look at the spot where the positive fed wire is coming towards screen...and attaches to positive brush feeding it through commutator.

Now look at a Right hand above DC Machine..:

[IMG][/IMG]

It is exactly like the image I have shown before (except this image is looking from above at machine), where positive is running toward my fingers...

So, that image is perfectly right, it is in complete agreement with mine...so, I am correct...so many thanks Bistander!!

At least you have found one more that agrees with me in all this hundreds of wrong images...
You're wrong again, or still. Look through the book, the pdf in the link. There are many examples of B field direction based on current direction in coils. All agree with me. None agree with you. No other text or article or authority on the subject agrees with your interpretation of the right-hand rule. You're wrong. And you do a dis-service teaching that incorrect "rule" to others like sampojo. Give me a respectful source showing the right-hand rule with fingers pointing into the currents as opposed to pointed with the currents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post

Sorry, but I do not have the time to keep arguing with you here...go chase SidL...or BroMikey since you were missing him so much...
But you have time to follow my posts on unrelated threads. SidL and BM are fanboys of you, not me. I see we could add promt to the list. Why don't you reply to him? And don't you think there is something familiar about marathonman (MM) and MadMack (MM). Like MadMack claimed to have a working device and suckered you (and others) into doing a lot of work to no avail and then dropped off the planet. All the while, where is the proof you offer on the ENLIGHTENED MAGNETISM (The Full Proof of Ken Wheeler's Theories) thread? I wonder if Ken knows that you introduced your two new generators on a thread which could be interpreted to be attributed to him. Have you discussed those with Ken? As always, no need for a reply to me. I'll just stand by and see how this plays out.

Regards,

bi
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Last edited by bistander; 09-18-2016 at 05:55 PM. Reason: Typo
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  #7976  
Old 09-18-2016, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Ji Ufo,

A response.

The right-hand rule applies to all induced fields by current carrying coils. I have no idea what you're talking about "outer poles" and agreed upon graphics. Please refer to that specific post.

You're wrong again, or still. Look through the book, the pdf in the link. There are many examples of B field direction based on current direction in coils. All agree with me. None agree with you. No other text or article or authority on the subject agrees with your interpretation of the right-hand rule. You're wrong. And you do a dis-service teaching that incorrect "rule" to others like sampojo. Give me a respectful source showing the right-hand rule with fingers pointing into the currents as opposed to pointed with the currents.

Regards,

bi

Bistander,

That Right Hand Rule is mine, and it don't refer to B Fields but to difference between specific North-South Magnetic Poles...I displayed it here to help visualize which pole is North and which is South at the time to wind any motor here.

I have tested this reference method hundreds of times when I start winding any motor or any coil. The Thumb points in the North direction if positive currents are traveling towards your fingers as shown on diagrams...method works and it is just another reference to guide people whenever winding motors or even simple coils.

B Fields are Directional Vectors on the whole magnetic field -according to Lorentz- and so, always travel from North to South, as B Fields do not define specific magnetic polarity.

[IMG][/IMG]

So, on a Single Magnet or in a single Two Pole armature-rotor the B Field travels from N to S within same object...that is why you were looking at images and saying they were correct when they were not, because I was referring to North pointing and not B Field pointing...

Asymmetric Machines are fed separately voltage polarity for each commutator, so, the always positive commutator I have oriented to be the one attached to power take off as reference, and when start winding making sure the Right Hand Rule, MY Right Hand Rule be used in order to be able to predict desired rotation.

It is very useful reference tool, whenever winding any of my motors. Basically if they would be the All North or All South Type.

Take care


Ufopolitics
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Last edited by Ufopolitics; 09-18-2016 at 04:54 PM.
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  #7977  
Old 09-18-2016, 06:30 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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B fields

Ufo,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post

B Fields are Directional Vectors on the whole magnetic field -according to Lorentz- and so, always travel from North to South, as B Fields do not define specific magnetic polarity.
Wrong. The B vector does define polarity. And the direction is N to S outside the source but S to N inside the source, like inside the magnet or coil. As in the diagram I attach below yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post

[IMG][/IMG]


Note the image on the right. The armature conductors with cross (+) are conducting current into the page (or screen). The armature conductors with the dot (.) are conducting current out of the page (or screen). The B field or B vector of the armature points downwards. That makes the side of the armature labeled Y the North pole of the armature and the upper side of the armature labeled X the South pole of the armature. This is opposite from your diagram.

Also note the difference between the direction of rotation for motor vs generator.

Regards,

bi
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  #7978  
Old 09-18-2016, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Ufo,

Wrong. The B vector does define polarity. And the direction is N to S outside the source but S to N inside the source, like inside the magnet or coil. As in the diagram I attach below yours.



Note the image on the right. The armature conductors with cross (+) are conducting current into the page (or screen). The armature conductors with the dot (.) are conducting current out of the page (or screen). The B field or B vector of the armature points downwards. That makes the side of the armature labeled Y the North pole of the armature and the upper side of the armature labeled X the South pole of the armature. This is opposite from your diagram.

Also note the difference between the direction of rotation for motor vs generator.

Regards,

bi
Bistander,...are you wearing your prescription reading glasses?

Have you taken your medications to relax?

Then take another look at your same image on right, except I zoomed it for you to see better (maybe it was too small) which -according to you- is "opposite" to mine...:

[IMG][/IMG]

I see absolutely no discrepancies at all...according to my Right Hand Rule, now on top of your drawing, my fingers are receiving the positive as my thumb is pointing the North Pole towards where you wrote "armature labeled "Y" the North Pole"...forget about "B Fields"...all that brings you is confusione (italian)...big time.

I am warning you, if you do not wear your prescribed reading glasses..You could end up with big headaches...

Take care, we need you here to explain to all of Us what's coming next...


Regards


Ufopolitics
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Last edited by Ufopolitics; 09-18-2016 at 07:17 PM.
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  #7979  
Old 09-18-2016, 08:16 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Who's confused?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Bistander,...are you wearing your prescription reading glasses?

Have you taken your medications to relax?

Then take another look at your same image on right, except I zoomed it for you to see better (maybe it was too small) which -according to you- is "opposite" to mine...:

[IMG][/IMG]

I see absolutely no discrepancies at all...according to my Right Hand Rule, now on top of your drawing, my fingers are receiving the positive as my thumb is pointing the North Pole towards where you wrote "armature labeled "Y" the North Pole"...forget about "B Fields"...all that brings you is confusione (italian)...big time.

I am warning you, if you do not wear your prescribed reading glasses..You could end up with big headaches...

Take care, we need you here to explain to all of Us what's coming next...


Regards


Ufopolitics
Ufo,

In this image the currents in the armature conductors which you have marked with a red + are pointed out of the screen.



In this image, the currents in the armature conductors which you marked with red + are pointed into the screen.



So which is it? Fingers pointed with the current or fingers pointed against the current? Or any which way Ufo feels like doing today?

Regards,

bi
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File Type: png ArmFlux3.png (349.8 KB, 107 views)
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Old 09-18-2016, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Ufo,

In this image the currents in the armature conductors which you have marked with a red + are pointed out of the screen.



In this image, the currents in the armature conductors which you marked with red + are pointed into the screen.



So which is it? Fingers pointed with the current or fingers pointed against the current? Or any which way Ufo feels like doing today?

Regards,

bi
Then it is a clear example that the two images are in conflict...same book?

All I know that any coil you show me the positive wires climbing up towards your right hand fingers, your thumb will point the North pole face, period.

You go ahead and make that test, make a video and post it showing the opposite...simple.

Ufopolitics
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