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  #7891  
Old 09-17-2016, 04:02 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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I made a mistake

Thanks Ufo. Edit made. I meant my other left.

But you are incorrect about the right hand rule.

bi
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  #7892  
Old 09-17-2016, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Thanks Ufo. Edit made. I meant my other left.

But you are incorrect about the right hand rule.

bi
Your new edited post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi sam,

Your diagram of the right hand rule is correct as shown above. However the diagram on the right showing rotation is backwards. With the armature North pointed downward in the stator field pointed to the left*, rotation is CCW.

bi
You are still wrong...

If the North Stator at Right (Blue) is pointing inwards towards Center of Rotor, and the Rotor is producing a down North the rotation is CW.

North Stator is repulsing (pushing) Rotor North, as Rotor North is also attracted to seek center alignment with Left South(red) Stator.

Besides this "seen" interactions... there are another one -not seen- taking place in the back of Rotor North (a South), which gets repelled by South Stator and attracted by North Stator.

About the "Right Hand Rule", related to Magnetic Polarities and current flow...am not going to argue about it with you here...

If You really are seeking the truth, just do the simple experiment yourself...wind a coil considering that positive would be pointing towards your hand fingers while you wind, not your thumb...then energize the coil and check polarity on that face.

If you still see it opposite polarity...then you are considering the Geographical pole is the same as the Magnetic Earth Pole on your compass...

A Compass "N" is just a Magnetic South Seeking Pole...meaning a Compass "N" is a North Pole...and not a South like other billions of people believe...


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #7893  
Old 09-17-2016, 05:05 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Coil polarity

To Ufo and all (who might be interested),

Do a Google search for: coil magnetic polarity using right-hand rule. Hit the image icon. You will see nearly a hundred images agreeing with my take on the right-hand rule and one single image agreeing with Ufo. And that one image is from the Energeticforum, a post by Ufo himself, so it's likely he drew it.

Regards,

bi
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  #7894  
Old 09-17-2016, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
To Ufo and all (who might be interested),

Do a Google search for: coil magnetic polarity using right-hand rule. Hit the image icon. You will see nearly a hundred images agreeing with my take on the right-hand rule and one single image agreeing with Ufo. And that one image is from the Energeticforum, a post by Ufo himself, so it's likely he drew it.

Regards,

bi
Wow!...that means that I am the "one and only" guy who is correct among so many people??!!

I bet you ask all those people who made those drawings wrong...how many motors have they assembled from scratch or even wound any motor at all...and you would be surprised none of them have ever touched a motor in their life time...except to turn their switches on or off.

I will repeat what Citfta have on the signature...
Quote:
"Just because it is on You Tube doesn't means it is true...
"

But instead I will write it with "Google" instead of "You Tube"...and as a matter of fact they are the same exact thing...Google bought out You Tube...

Bistander, the only thing I do believe blindly -related to Physics Concepts and all this Fields- are completely true, are only on my own experiments.

So, make the experiment yourself...like Sampojo did:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sampojo View Post
Hey Ufo,

Kinda ground to a halt when I realized I miscalculated my multifilar gauge needs, with 6 coils wrapped. I got the motor together to do a test spin and it went the wrong direction than planned. so I pulled in your post from p265. Just looking at the North pole, it looked like you had the right hand rule wrong. If you look at my post 7952 diagram this page, you can see I reversed it. This is blowing my mind. I pulled out my physics books and studied online and my diagram still seems to agree with the texts, but my motor is still going in the wrong direction and the coils are throwing a South pole not a North pole!!! So your diagram is still king!!
Take care Bistander


Ufopolitics
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  #7895  
Old 09-17-2016, 07:13 PM
DadHav DadHav is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arch chicken View Post
Hi dadhave.....sorry for delayed answer......bit bussy these days......
Ill get som vids and fotos together showing what i do with converting bicycles into electric bicycles.....its easy though.....i use the threepoled desighn on a car radiator fan motor......realy strong torque there.....then i mount it onto a plate shaped to fit into frame of said bicycle.....this plate has two brackets fit to take two motorcycle baterys....one on each side......after that its real simple.....take front sprocket and mount it to motor......lengten the chain a bit and fit onto motor......basic motor speed controll and bobs your uncle!

Ill post some photos showing what i did as soon as i can.......
Hello Arch, Good luck with your test. Do you have an OEM motor as well as a modified to make a comparison? All you have to do is make your vehicle with the modification go further using the same battery drain as the one with the OEM. Going faster for a short distance might not mean a modification is better.
Thanks for answering me.
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  #7896  
Old 09-17-2016, 07:43 PM
DadHav DadHav is offline
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Originally Posted by ewizard View Post
Asymmetric pulse wheel-motor generator on a bicycle :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3_xvqR5QxA
Hello E, I'm not sure who else may comment on your post but there is some merit, in my opinion, about the posted video. It looks like he is using hub motors which I think is really optimal for bikes and other light weight vehicles. secondly it seems he is not claiming over unity but rather a savings in current draw. You know nothing is acceptable without more proof than what the video depicts but it is possible. I have experimented myself with this type motor and experienced a substantial savings of current draw while feeding back generator coil potential from a pulsed circuit. It was just a small motor and circuit test that accidentally showed me it was possible. So there might be something there.
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  #7897  
Old 09-17-2016, 08:19 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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additional reference

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Wow!...that means that I am the "one and only" guy who is correct among so many people??!!

I bet you ask all those people who made those drawings wrong...how many motors have they assembled from scratch or even wound any motor at all...and you would be surprised none of them have ever touched a motor in their life time...except to turn their switches on or off.

I will repeat what Citfta have on the signature...[/I]"

But instead I will write it with "Google" instead of "You Tube"...and as a matter of fact they are the same exact thing...Google bought out You Tube...

Bistander, the only thing I do believe blindly -related to Physics Concepts and all this Fields- are completely true, are only on my own experiments.

So, make the experiment yourself...like Sampojo did:



Take care Bistander


Ufopolitics
Hi Ufo,

I thought you had come around to the conventional way of thinking when you posted this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Below is a CAD on the Static Armature plus the Rotor Magnetic Polarity MOMENTARY Map.

[IMG][/IMG]
And no, I don't just rely on Google or the internet for my knowledge base.

http://prof.usb.ve/jaller/Fitzgerald.pdf

This is a great reference and text book on which we agreed in another thread. I happened to find it on line for your convenience. I have the 3th edition beside my computer here. See page 3, figure 1.1. It agrees with my interpretation of field polarity with respect to current direction in the coil.

And later it that book, this figure confirming direction of rotation. Note the text above the figure. It is a generator so the indicated rotation is opposite from a motor.



Regards,

bi
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  #7898  
Old 09-17-2016, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi Ufo,

I thought you had come around to the conventional way of thinking when you posted this.
Bistander,

I have no idea why you are posting that Img here?...it is a Static Armature, and center rotor from a Generator, and am just showing the full magnetic links there because it is required to know that for the generator understanding purposes.

In a motor it is not required...as outer poles are not directly related to motor function, that was the very first convention that we all agree on when I started posting my graphics on this thread.



Quote:
And no, I don't just rely on Google or the internet for my knowledge base.

http://prof.usb.ve/jaller/Fitzgerald.pdf

This is a great reference and text book on which we agreed in another thread. I happened to find it on line for your convenience. I have the 3th edition beside my computer here. See page 3, figure 1.1. It agrees with my interpretation of field polarity with respect to current direction in the coil.

And later it that book, this figure confirming direction of rotation. Note the text above the figure. It is a generator so the indicated rotation is opposite from a motor.

Regards,

bi
Bistander,


Look again at that picture...

[IMG][/IMG]

Please take look at the spot where the positive fed wire is coming towards screen...and attaches to positive brush feeding it through commutator.

Now look at a Right hand above DC Machine..:

[IMG][/IMG]

It is exactly like the image I have shown before (except this image is looking from above at machine), where positive is running toward my fingers...

So, that image is perfectly right, it is in complete agreement with mine...so, I am correct...so many thanks Bistander!!

At least you have found one more that agrees with me in all this hundreds of wrong images...

Sorry, but I do not have the time to keep arguing with you here...go chase SidL...or BroMikey since you were missing him so much...

Take care


Ufopolitics
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  #7899  
Old 09-18-2016, 03:36 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Right-hand rule

Hi Ufo,

A response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Bistander,

I have no idea why you are posting that Img here?...it is a Static Armature, and center rotor from a Generator, and am just showing the full magnetic links there because it is required to know that for the generator understanding purposes.

In a motor it is not required...as outer poles are not directly related to motor function, that was the very first convention that we all agree on when I started posting my graphics on this thread.
The right-hand rule applies to all induced fields by current carrying coils. I have no idea what you're talking about "outer poles" and agreed upon graphics. Please refer to that specific post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Bistander,


Look again at that picture...

[IMG][/IMG]

Please take look at the spot where the positive fed wire is coming towards screen...and attaches to positive brush feeding it through commutator.

Now look at a Right hand above DC Machine..:

[IMG][/IMG]

It is exactly like the image I have shown before (except this image is looking from above at machine), where positive is running toward my fingers...

So, that image is perfectly right, it is in complete agreement with mine...so, I am correct...so many thanks Bistander!!

At least you have found one more that agrees with me in all this hundreds of wrong images...
You're wrong again, or still. Look through the book, the pdf in the link. There are many examples of B field direction based on current direction in coils. All agree with me. None agree with you. No other text or article or authority on the subject agrees with your interpretation of the right-hand rule. You're wrong. And you do a dis-service teaching that incorrect "rule" to others like sampojo. Give me a respectful source showing the right-hand rule with fingers pointing into the currents as opposed to pointed with the currents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post

Sorry, but I do not have the time to keep arguing with you here...go chase SidL...or BroMikey since you were missing him so much...
But you have time to follow my posts on unrelated threads. SidL and BM are fanboys of you, not me. I see we could add promt to the list. Why don't you reply to him? And don't you think there is something familiar about marathonman (MM) and MadMack (MM). Like MadMack claimed to have a working device and suckered you (and others) into doing a lot of work to no avail and then dropped off the planet. All the while, where is the proof you offer on the ENLIGHTENED MAGNETISM (The Full Proof of Ken Wheeler's Theories) thread? I wonder if Ken knows that you introduced your two new generators on a thread which could be interpreted to be attributed to him. Have you discussed those with Ken? As always, no need for a reply to me. I'll just stand by and see how this plays out.

Regards,

bi
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  #7900  
Old 09-18-2016, 04:35 PM
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Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Ji Ufo,

A response.

The right-hand rule applies to all induced fields by current carrying coils. I have no idea what you're talking about "outer poles" and agreed upon graphics. Please refer to that specific post.

You're wrong again, or still. Look through the book, the pdf in the link. There are many examples of B field direction based on current direction in coils. All agree with me. None agree with you. No other text or article or authority on the subject agrees with your interpretation of the right-hand rule. You're wrong. And you do a dis-service teaching that incorrect "rule" to others like sampojo. Give me a respectful source showing the right-hand rule with fingers pointing into the currents as opposed to pointed with the currents.

Regards,

bi

Bistander,

That Right Hand Rule is mine, and it don't refer to B Fields but to difference between specific North-South Magnetic Poles...I displayed it here to help visualize which pole is North and which is South at the time to wind any motor here.

I have tested this reference method hundreds of times when I start winding any motor or any coil. The Thumb points in the North direction if positive currents are traveling towards your fingers as shown on diagrams...method works and it is just another reference to guide people whenever winding motors or even simple coils.

B Fields are Directional Vectors on the whole magnetic field -according to Lorentz- and so, always travel from North to South, as B Fields do not define specific magnetic polarity.

[IMG][/IMG]

So, on a Single Magnet or in a single Two Pole armature-rotor the B Field travels from N to S within same object...that is why you were looking at images and saying they were correct when they were not, because I was referring to North pointing and not B Field pointing...

Asymmetric Machines are fed separately voltage polarity for each commutator, so, the always positive commutator I have oriented to be the one attached to power take off as reference, and when start winding making sure the Right Hand Rule, MY Right Hand Rule be used in order to be able to predict desired rotation.

It is very useful reference tool, whenever winding any of my motors. Basically if they would be the All North or All South Type.

Take care


Ufopolitics
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  #7901  
Old 09-18-2016, 06:30 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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B fields

Ufo,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post

B Fields are Directional Vectors on the whole magnetic field -according to Lorentz- and so, always travel from North to South, as B Fields do not define specific magnetic polarity.
Wrong. The B vector does define polarity. And the direction is N to S outside the source but S to N inside the source, like inside the magnet or coil. As in the diagram I attach below yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post

[IMG][/IMG]


Note the image on the right. The armature conductors with cross (+) are conducting current into the page (or screen). The armature conductors with the dot (.) are conducting current out of the page (or screen). The B field or B vector of the armature points downwards. That makes the side of the armature labeled Y the North pole of the armature and the upper side of the armature labeled X the South pole of the armature. This is opposite from your diagram.

Also note the difference between the direction of rotation for motor vs generator.

Regards,

bi
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  #7902  
Old 09-18-2016, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Ufo,

Wrong. The B vector does define polarity. And the direction is N to S outside the source but S to N inside the source, like inside the magnet or coil. As in the diagram I attach below yours.



Note the image on the right. The armature conductors with cross (+) are conducting current into the page (or screen). The armature conductors with the dot (.) are conducting current out of the page (or screen). The B field or B vector of the armature points downwards. That makes the side of the armature labeled Y the North pole of the armature and the upper side of the armature labeled X the South pole of the armature. This is opposite from your diagram.

Also note the difference between the direction of rotation for motor vs generator.

Regards,

bi
Bistander,...are you wearing your prescription reading glasses?

Have you taken your medications to relax?

Then take another look at your same image on right, except I zoomed it for you to see better (maybe it was too small) which -according to you- is "opposite" to mine...:

[IMG][/IMG]

I see absolutely no discrepancies at all...according to my Right Hand Rule, now on top of your drawing, my fingers are receiving the positive as my thumb is pointing the North Pole towards where you wrote "armature labeled "Y" the North Pole"...forget about "B Fields"...all that brings you is confusione (italian)...big time.

I am warning you, if you do not wear your prescribed reading glasses..You could end up with big headaches...

Take care, we need you here to explain to all of Us what's coming next...


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #7903  
Old 09-18-2016, 08:16 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Who's confused?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Bistander,...are you wearing your prescription reading glasses?

Have you taken your medications to relax?

Then take another look at your same image on right, except I zoomed it for you to see better (maybe it was too small) which -according to you- is "opposite" to mine...:

[IMG][/IMG]

I see absolutely no discrepancies at all...according to my Right Hand Rule, now on top of your drawing, my fingers are receiving the positive as my thumb is pointing the North Pole towards where you wrote "armature labeled "Y" the North Pole"...forget about "B Fields"...all that brings you is confusione (italian)...big time.

I am warning you, if you do not wear your prescribed reading glasses..You could end up with big headaches...

Take care, we need you here to explain to all of Us what's coming next...


Regards


Ufopolitics
Ufo,

In this image the currents in the armature conductors which you have marked with a red + are pointed out of the screen.



In this image, the currents in the armature conductors which you marked with red + are pointed into the screen.



So which is it? Fingers pointed with the current or fingers pointed against the current? Or any which way Ufo feels like doing today?

Regards,

bi
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File Type: png ArmFlux3.png (349.8 KB, 108 views)
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  #7904  
Old 09-18-2016, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Ufo,

In this image the currents in the armature conductors which you have marked with a red + are pointed out of the screen.



In this image, the currents in the armature conductors which you marked with red + are pointed into the screen.



So which is it? Fingers pointed with the current or fingers pointed against the current? Or any which way Ufo feels like doing today?

Regards,

bi
Then it is a clear example that the two images are in conflict...same book?

All I know that any coil you show me the positive wires climbing up towards your right hand fingers, your thumb will point the North pole face, period.

You go ahead and make that test, make a video and post it showing the opposite...simple.

Ufopolitics
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  #7905  
Old 09-18-2016, 08:51 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Then it is a clear example that the two images are in conflict...same book?

All I know that any coil you show me the positive wires climbing up towards your right hand fingers, your thumb will point the North pole face, period.

You go ahead and make that test, make a video and post it showing the opposite...simple.

Ufopolitics
Ufo,

The images are not from the same book and not in conflict with each other (as originals). You and your markings on those images are in conflict. It is common convention to use circles to represent conductors perpendicular to the plane of the paper (or screen) on which the drawing is made. If the current is pointed down (into the paper or screen) then an X is marked in that circle. If the current is pointed up or out of the paper or screen, then a dot is placed in the circle. The image labeled figure 4.17 is defined as a generator therefore in the armature current flows from negative to positive (like inside of a battery during discharge). The other image is defined as an electric machine and the direction of the armature currents are defined by the convention of circles with dots and crosses. Note on that diagram, rotation is specified for both motor and generator (being opposite each other).

Regards,

bi

ps. What does "positive wires climbing up" mean?
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  #7906  
Old 09-19-2016, 12:46 AM
marathonman marathonman is offline
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Angry Plane ignorance.

Bistander'
"And don't you think there is something familiar about marathonman (MM) and MadMack (MM)."

Absolutely stupid and Ridiculous. i live in Texas, was born and raised in California, was in the military and served my Country and have NEVER EVER used or assumed a false identity. so please leave me out of your psychotic screwed up fantasies of deranged conspiracies.

please keep your comments to your self.

SORRY FOR THE WONDERFUL THREAD INTERRUPTION.

MM
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  #7907  
Old 09-19-2016, 02:35 PM
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Can not think of a more Simple Drawing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Ufo,

ps. What does "positive wires climbing up" mean?

Regards,

bi
Bistander,

Look at pic below...I honestly can not put it any simpler than that:

[IMG][/IMG]

In above simple drawing where it applies to any coil on this Planet...it simply means that if you set your Right Hand that way, at the time to start winding any coil...your thumb would be pointing to the North Pole, period.

I meant "Positive wires climbing toward your fingers"

If You start winding by turning wire the other way, (like shown on pic below) in order that positive flowing wires would be "leaving" your fingers, then you will have a South Pole pointing by your thumb.

[IMG][/IMG]

So, basically the reference we use are the positive flow at wound wires and our fingers relations to find which pole we are winding at the face of the armatures...it works and many here used it and work out fine.

P.D: I know perfectly well the symbology related to using the cross and the dot...it actually comes from the "arrow" convention...an old method where the "feathers" of the arrow is reflected with "X" and the dot (.) as the front end sharp point from arrow...

I really and honestly did not mean to create absolutely no conflicts with any other reference methods of Right Hand Rule(s)...like I wrote before, this was created by me, on this specific thread, to guide members who were winding motors, an easy method to go by, to help them wind a North or South Pole guidance reference in their armatures.


That was it. And I only hope it clear your concerns and doubts.


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #7908  
Old 09-19-2016, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Bistander,

Look at pic below...I honestly can not put it any simpler than that:

[IMG][/IMG]

In above simple drawing where it applies to any coil on this Planet...it simply means that if you set your Right Hand that way, at the time to start winding any coil...your thumb would be pointing to the North Pole, period.

I meant "Positive wires climbing toward your fingers"

If You start winding by turning wire the other way, (like shown on pic below) in order that positive flowing wires would be "leaving" your fingers, then you will have a South Pole pointing by your thumb.

[IMG][/IMG]

So, basically the reference we use are the positive flow at wound wires and our fingers relations to find which pole we are winding at the face of the armatures...it works and many here used it and work out fine.

P.D: I know perfectly well the symbology related to using the cross and the dot...it actually comes from the "arrow" convention...an old method where the "feathers" of the arrow is reflected with "X" and the dot (.) as the front end sharp point from arrow...

I really and honestly did not mean to create absolutely no conflicts with any other reference methods of Right Hand Rule(s)...like I wrote before, this was created by me, on this specific thread, to guide members who were winding motors, an easy method to go by, to help them wind a North or South Pole guidance reference in their armatures.


That was it. And I only hope it clear your concerns and doubts.


Regards


Ufopolitics
@All,

This Positive Flow of currents directions from above two images, forms Two different Vortexes or Spirals in each of the different wound Coils...And it happens that according to all my tests... when facing a straight Horizontal line B&W CRT with a North or a South, I obtained exactly the same magnetic spinning direction as the current flow and hand rule shows:


Meaning if you turn that North Pole Coil (or magnet) against the screen of a CRT with just a horizontal line on screen, it will deflect towards the left, or CCW Rotation on screen.

[IMG][/IMG]

However, if you face a South Pole towards same CRT Screen-Line..the rasterized electron beam horizontal line would deflect towards the Right, meaning CW Rotation...:

[IMG][/IMG]

Finally, if you observe the whole thing...would realize both poles, North and South are only turning but in One Direction, and it is just our perception trying to distinguish one from the other...which thinks they are "opposite"...

[IMG][/IMG]

Remember, everything is relative, and depends upon the point of view observing it...


Regards and


Ufopolitics
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  #7909  
Old 09-19-2016, 06:30 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Rules? Who needs them

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Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Bistander,

Look at pic below...I honestly can not put it any simpler than that:

[IMG][/IMG]

In above simple drawing where it applies to any coil on this Planet...it simply means that if you set your Right Hand that way, at the time to start winding any coil...your thumb would be pointing to the North Pole, period.

I meant "Positive wires climbing toward your fingers"

If You start winding by turning wire the other way, (like shown on pic below) in order that positive flowing wires would be "leaving" your fingers, then you will have a South Pole pointing by your thumb.

[IMG][/IMG]

So, basically the reference we use are the positive flow at wound wires and our fingers relations to find which pole we are winding at the face of the armatures...it works and many here used it and work out fine.

P.D: I know perfectly well the symbology related to using the cross and the dot...it actually comes from the "arrow" convention...an old method where the "feathers" of the arrow is reflected with "X" and the dot (.) as the front end sharp point from arrow...

I really and honestly did not mean to create absolutely no conflicts with any other reference methods of Right Hand Rule(s)...like I wrote before, this was created by me, on this specific thread, to guide members who were winding motors, an easy method to go by, to help them wind a North or South Pole guidance reference in their armatures.


That was it. And I only hope it clear your concerns and doubts.


Regards


Ufopolitics
Hi Ufo,

Thank you for the detailed reply. So you admit you made up your own right-hand rule. It never occurred to you to use the conventional rule which has been used for decades and is easily found? You had a 50/50 chance to get it right, but didn't.

I have thought for a long time that you just make it up as you go. This comfirms it.

Regards,

bi
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Old 09-19-2016, 09:17 PM
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Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
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Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi Ufo,

Thank you for the detailed reply. So you admit you made up your own right-hand rule. It never occurred to you to use the conventional rule which has been used for decades and is easily found? You had a 50/50 chance to get it right, but didn't.

I have thought for a long time that you just make it up as you go. This comfirms it.

Regards,

bi

You are welcome Bistander,

The "conventional" Right Hand Rule brings along parameters (Vectors basically) which are not required in order just to find which pole is North and which is South based on your winding turns direction and current flow.

B Fields brings confusions, since it travels (as you wrote previously) on the external of magnet or electromagnet in one direction, to then travel the opposite direction inside magnet or iron core...

Force? We do not need force vectors in order to wind in just specific poles of an armature...

After all these are just "Reference Methods"...nothing more, as they do not give a rational answer nor explanation as to why it takes place "that way"...


Ufopolitics
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  #7911  
Old 09-19-2016, 09:29 PM
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sampojo sampojo is offline
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A video demonstration of the violation of the right-hand rule

Nice diagrams and discussion so far guys, but nothing conclusive. We should be able to communicate to each other a physical law of nature, however. Here I think I am showing Ufopolitics diagrams correct again with some fairly solid proof. I think Ufo's diagrams are more like a left hand rule.

Here is the diagram I have used to wind my Baldor with the right hand rule strictly applied.



This is a corrected figure now with bullet 1 properly stating that the winding direction + to - is CCW.

Out of my college physics text Haliday & Resnick, "Fundamental Physics" the rule is stated:

"Grasp the wire with the right hand, the thumb pointing in the direction of the current. The fingers will curl around the wire in the direction of B"

Where B is the magnetic field vector, + is North.

My video demonstrates that my motor is wound exactly in accordance with my diagram, and that putting the fingers in the direction of the current is the same as the thumb. And my video, dis-assembling the coil shows it throwing a South pole as opposed to a North pole. I goofed in the last statement of direction, I should have said COUNTER CLOCKWISE.





Looking at Ufopolitics diagram, just the North oriented half for a unipolar design, it is suspiciously oriented in opposition to the strict interpretation of the right-hand rule.



I thought it had a violation of the right-hand rule. I thought the fingers should go in the direction of the current, and and altered my diagram accordingly. At 30% mark, I tested its performance and found it to rotate CCW, when it was supposed to go CW.

Is our text-book interpretation of the right hand rule correct? What could be wrong on my design then?
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Last edited by sampojo; 09-20-2016 at 12:10 AM.
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  #7912  
Old 09-20-2016, 04:03 AM
bistander bistander is offline
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Right-hand rule

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Originally Posted by sampojo View Post
Is our text-book interpretation of the right hand rule correct? What could be wrong on my design then?
Hi Sam,

I haven't seen anything wrong in the video yet. I'll take a closer look on a larger screen. Have you verified your compass hasn't been remagnetized by testing it to point correctly towards geographical North? Also please tell coil resistance and turns. Is the coil isolated from the core (not grounded)?

I've used the textbook right-hand rule thousands of times and never been wrong. Just a few hours ago I put 45 Amps thru an 8 turn air core coil and it attracted the proper end of the compass pointer per the textbook right-hand rule. The books are correct.

Have you got another coil you can test with that compass?

Regards,

bi
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  #7913  
Old 09-20-2016, 06:25 AM
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Compass Remagnitzed

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Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi Sam,

I haven't seen anything wrong in the video yet. I'll take a closer look on a larger screen. Have you verified your compass hasn't been remagnetized by testing it to point correctly towards geographical North? Also please tell coil resistance and turns. Is the coil isolated from the core (not grounded)?

I've used the textbook right-hand rule thousands of times and never been wrong. Just a few hours ago I put 45 Amps thru an 8 turn air core coil and it attracted the proper end of the compass pointer per the textbook right-hand rule. The books are correct.

Have you got another coil you can test with that compass?

Regards,

bi
Good catch Bi!!! I was quite surprised to walk out the door and see the stupid compass pointing SOUTH!!!! Too much time laying around some Neo apparently. I had considered it in the back of my mind but had never heard of such a thing and dismissed the idea. Nah can't be,I said. Oh it be, allright!!

Thanks for all the effort and I apologize for all the fuss it has caused.

Sam
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  #7914  
Old 09-20-2016, 06:30 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Remag compass

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Originally Posted by sampojo View Post
Good catch Bi!!! I was quite surprised to walk out the door and see the stupid compass pointing SOUTH!!!! Too much time laying around some Neo apparently. I had considered it in the back of my mind but had never heard of such a thing and dismissed the idea. Nah can't be,I said. Oh it be, allright!!

Thanks for all the effort and I apologize for all the fuss it has caused.

Sam
Hi sam,

Well, I'm glad that is resolved. I was kinda worried about remag when I saw you stick the compass inside the PM stator. Inside, between the 2 magnet sectors there is quite a strong B field enhanced with the outer steel tube. If the compass is inserted quickly, the field latches onto the pointer whichever way it is directed and imposes its own polarity. From there, due to strength and size, the field in the steel compass pointer is driven into magnetic saturation (or thereabouts) reversed from its original magnetization direction. Once removed from the stator, the steel in the compass pointer settles to the residual of the opposite polarity (from the original) and the compass is now seeking the S geo pole instead of N.



See the B-H curve above. The compass pointer steel originally is at Br and works in quadrant II. After the remagnetization, the steel is at -Br and works in quadrant IV. I think I got that right. Been a long time since I used B-H stuff.

Oh, I wanted to say. You may be able to remag your compass back to normal by getting it into the stator pointing the other way. Perhaps use a small magnet to keep it pointed until you can get it inside the stator.

Regards.

bi
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  #7915  
Old 09-21-2016, 03:16 PM
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Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
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Bistander...

Hello Bistander,

You know what Bistander?

I hate You!!!


Just kidding...I did not mean it...I just hate You for the fact you were so F Right!!!


You were completely right about EVERYTHING related to Currents directions, Pole Directions and the darn Classical Right Hand Rule!!!

I had the same EXACT Compass F**KED UP piece of crap as Sampojo had...same "syndrome"...!!

And the worst part is that I have heck of Digital Compasses which automatically self calibrate as soon as you take them for a ride...but know what?...never used them to check polarities on magnets...maybe thinking they won't read them...but they do.

BUT NOPE... I was using the pieces of crap small needle compasses...and got polarities all reversed. And that is the reason why I made that "other" Right Hand WRONG CRAP.

The work I have now is multiplied by I don't know how much...I am just glad I did not get to upload the CRT Video and Polarities with all animations which now...I will have to redo from scratch...

I am also glad I never dare to say that Ken Wheeler had his Magnetic Polarities wrong on his book related to CW and CCW...because he did not...and I was the only one FULLY WRONG!!!!


I was trying to makke a video showing the polarities versus currents running directions....and decided to use the digital compass since I saw what happened to Sam...same sh*T, different color.


So, I do owe you a BIG TIME Apology for my mistake here, as for being so stubborn, just trusting a piece of crap Compass...


My Diagrams as that CRT Video and Pictures related to it above are ALL reversed...I was "coding" all my magnet polarities and so videos based on TWO reversed compasses....


Regards and A BIG THANKS for correcting all of Us here with so much patience.



Ufopolitics
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Last edited by Ufopolitics; 09-21-2016 at 03:30 PM.
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  #7916  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:49 AM
Dwane Dwane is offline
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Motor Only

Hi Ufo

I have a question, I am wondering if there is any advantage with using your symbiotic winding system for the generator motor design to wind a motor only and using the feed back from each winding to assist with energising the power supply to the motor. I have built a circuit based on the Cold electricity from the "My Motors got me to Tap into Radiant Energy" thread. I have connected a a small DC motor - a MY8029 - across the output Cap and it runs fast and smoothly. I am not certain what "Real Time" voltage or current is being supplied. The cold voltage does things differently. Although, coil size, pulse width and pulse current do seem to have a significant control over the output and its availability

Thank you

Dwane
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  #7917  
Old 04-24-2017, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Dwane View Post
Hi Ufo

I have a question, I am wondering if there is any advantage with using your symbiotic winding system for the generator motor design to wind a motor only and using the feed back from each winding to assist with energising the power supply to the motor.
Hello Dwane,

In a series of three videos that I would list below, I have shown that it is possible to feed source while motor is running.

And I do not know if you are familiar with Super Caps... but they need pretty strong currents to start rising a charge, basically if starting from a zero charge Cap, where they are completely shorted out and giving full continuity readings through their terminals.



On above video you will see motor climbing up in RPM's while Source (2 AA Ni Batteries) are also increasing up and Super cap.

Sorry about music changes and sometimes being too loud...I already fired that Sound Engineer...

Also more testing on other set ups...



And



They all gave me positive results.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwane View Post
I have built a circuit based on the Cold electricity from the "My Motors got me to Tap into Radiant Energy" thread. I have connected a a small DC motor - a MY8029 - across the output Cap and it runs fast and smoothly. I am not certain what "Real Time" voltage or current is being supplied. The cold voltage does things differently. Although, coil size, pulse width and pulse current do seem to have a significant control over the output and its availability

Thank you

Dwane
Absolutely it all depends on the kind of set up spec's you are working with Dwane...


Thanks


Ufopolitics
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  #7918  
Old 04-25-2017, 12:42 AM
GlenWV GlenWV is offline
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P66 Armature Wind

Ready to be taken to a motor rewind shop for balancing. (at last...)

glenWV
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  #7919  
Old 04-25-2017, 08:27 AM
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Cornboy 555 Cornboy 555 is offline
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Quote:
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Ready to be taken to a motor rewind shop for balancing. (at last...)

glenWV
WOW Glen, Beautiful job, your my hero.

Warmest Regards Cornboy.
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:40 PM
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Imperial P66 Asymmetric Winding

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Originally Posted by GlenWV View Post
Ready to be taken to a motor rewind shop for balancing. (at last...)

glenWV

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
Hey Glen nice job!!, nice looking machine there!

I believe you made it an "All North" wind type correct?

Guess it is part of the balancing process to sand-smooth the outer rotor steel laminates, meaning to lathe-cut-rectify the green epoxy so it runs smooth within stators right?

As am sure you have conducted a continuity-resistance test between each comm element to each coil group.

Waiting to see it running friend, excellent!!


Regards


Ufopolitics
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