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  #61  
Old 03-21-2012, 05:05 PM
Joit Joit is offline
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Totoalas, so far what i have tried now, Aluminium sulfate seems work better, where sulfate is a different Name for Salt or the Form as you get it delivered, because it cause lesser loss when the Batterie is standing.
I tried Potassium Alum, even with a bad Batterie, what seems had pysical damaged Cells, and it showed anyhow more self decharging. Aluminium Sulfate is without Potassium or Natrium, and seems more concentrated, Potassium Alum seems more is a mix from potassium and aluminium.
But what i have read, it worked for some too, to empty the Batteries again and refill it with a different Solution.
Lead acid Batteries can get damaged when its contaminated with precious Metals, where some of them are in normal Water, thats why it doesnt work well, when you refill it with normal Water.
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  #62  
Old 03-21-2012, 06:10 PM
totoalas totoalas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joit View Post
Totoalas, so far what i have tried now, Aluminium sulfate seems work better, where sulfate is a different Name for Salt or the Form as you get it delivered, because it cause lesser loss when the Batterie is standing.
I tried Potassium Alum, even with a bad Batterie, what seems had pysical damaged Cells, and it showed anyhow more self decharging. Aluminium Sulfate is without Potassium or Natrium, and seems more concentrated, Potassium Alum seems more is a mix from potassium and aluminium.
But what i have read, it worked for some too, to empty the Batteries again and refill it with a different Solution.
Lead acid Batteries can get damaged when its contaminated with precious Metals, where some of them are in normal Water, thats why it doesnt work well, when you refill it with normal Water.
Hi Jolt
thanks for the info, with aluminum sulfate , will try on 70ah battery 1 1/2 yrs old and will post some results
will try to aerate the cells to clean up the plates as well

totoalas
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  #63  
Old 03-24-2012, 12:57 PM
totoalas totoalas is offline
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70 Ah Alum Battery Success 240312

Hi to all
Using Chucks method, I was able to increase the charging voltage from initial 12.30 max with ss ssg after just 3 hours it stands @ 13.2 v dc

thanks to you all guys no need I think for an aerator in normal charging...

In the Philippines where the hillside are in the rough road... Charging batteries goes to the process of riding a tricycle passing to the bumpy roads to shake off the plates and only then can it be charged for good way to desulfate lol

totoalas
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  #64  
Old 03-25-2012, 08:27 PM
Joit Joit is offline
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NEAT! totoalas

I am happy with my SLA now too, the holding charge, just need to use them more often, that they come back to her old Capacity.

How to open a sealed lead acid (Gel cell) battery to add distilled water. - YouTube
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  #65  
Old 03-25-2012, 08:34 PM
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Neight Neight is offline
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Quote:
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NEAT! totoalas

I am happy with my SLA now too, the holding charge, just need to use them more often, that they come back to her old Capacity.

How to open a sealed lead acid (Gel cell) battery to add distilled water. - YouTube
Thanks for posting the link to the video on opening SLABs. I have several of them and I have been looking at them thinking about trying to open them. I really wasn't sure how safe that was, but it looks like if you are super careful, it's not too bad. I have two identical SLAs and I could convert one of them, and then compare them to each other. charge time, discharge time, and heat output under load and charging, and see how they compare after several cycles.
It might take me a few days to get one of them converted, but I am definitely going to try now
thanks for sharing your results Totoalas and Joit, very interesting to see!

N8
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  #66  
Old 03-25-2012, 09:05 PM
Joit Joit is offline
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Hi Neight, It looks like Superglue what they did use, but actually you only need a thin screwdriver to come in, and a bigger on the lift the cap and it falls apart, i only hope they do not change that now when they see what some do with it :P
Another Advantage is that they are then deep cycle Batteries but more robust.
Disadvantage could be, that they get a bit higher self decharging Rate.
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  #67  
Old 03-26-2012, 07:17 AM
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Neight Neight is offline
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Hello all
I am in the middle of converting an old SLA to alum. I am washing out the cells with baking soda, and have been through several rinses already. I started with a battery that I haven't been able to get to charge at all for a while now.
I have used it as battery 3 in the 3 battery generating system, and it works quite well as B3, because nothing has been able to fix this one so far.
I figure if I mess this up on the first go-round, it will only cost me one battery that refuses to work anyway...
so far, everything seems to be going well as far as I can tell. I am still getting a bubbling reaction from each cell, which tells me there is still acid in there, and I will keep rinsing until there is no bubbles or apparent reaction taking place.
I do have one question right now though, one cell in this battery is dumping out a brown colored dirty looking water. It almost looks like rust in the water. does this indicate a bad cell, or is the internal structure of the plates breaking down? This would explain why this battery has been un-fixable up to now. The other 5 cells in this battery seem to be rinsing clean, no color in them when dumped.
also, how in the world do you get all of the liquid out of these cells? no matter how long I let them drain upside down, and even if I give the battery a decent shake, I can still hear liquid in there. The amount I have to add each time has been consistent, as has been the amount I get out when dumping the battery out.

Just trying to see if it is worth continuing on this battery, or if I should start fresh with a new one, if this one has a bad cell. I don't know how to test each cell individually for voltage, but the battery as a whole has already gained a small voltage just cleaning it with the baking soda and water.
any guidance here would be appreciated, as I know next to nothing about batteries.

N8

Update: Looks like that cell is bad, and possibly one of the others. doing the alum conversion has helped this battery for sure, as it will now hold at least 5V, but it's supposed to be a 12V battery. It looks like it will still work OK for the 3 battery generating system, and with a few runs on that, I hope to see some additional improvement. I honestly didn't let it charge long at all, but what little charge it had, it used up right away with a small motor for a load. It took less than a few minutes to drain out about an hours worth of charging. I have several more batteries to try this with, and hope to get a couple of them working again. This one was just too badly damaged, which I expected when I saw the reddish brown sludge coming out with each rinse.
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Last edited by Neight; 03-26-2012 at 09:46 AM.
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  #68  
Old 04-21-2012, 10:09 AM
JamieM JamieM is offline
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Individual cell voltages

Can anyone advise what their maximum cell voltage has been with alum (mine Al SO4). I have managed to get a 6volt lead acid working ok (the others are too heavily sulphated!) but I dont have a radiant charger (yet) and am just using a bench power supply to charge the battery.
If anyone has seen Dr Linderman's battery secrets video or are fortunate enough to have been at the conference when he delivered it, From your experiments I was hoping to know what the final peak charge voltage of the alum battery is?

I have purchased a number of other salts to try as well.
Epson salts Mg SO4
Gauber Salt Na SO4
Copper Sulphate Cu SO4.

Ill let others how my tests go with these.
Cheers
JamieM
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  #69  
Old 05-01-2012, 08:32 AM
totoalas totoalas is offline
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Calcium Battery

Just want to ask if somebody had converted this type of battery made in korea 60 ah

thanks

totoalas
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  #70  
Old 05-09-2012, 02:29 PM
JamieM JamieM is offline
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Well,
all three chemicals worked!
Copper sulphate CuSO4, Magnesium Sulphate MgSO4 (Epson salts), Sodium Sulphate NaSO4 (Gauber Salt).
All were used in 1:10 ratio with water. That is 100gm per litre or water. Most just filtered water. I only bothered getting distilled water for my Good batteries for field testing. ie the car!!
I'd like to try Ferrous sulphate and Potash (KSO4) as well to prove a point to myself. Sadly this is a little more costly. But i will get to it! and post the result.
I'm in the process of trying to nut out the chemistry in the mean time.

Of interest is that the Aluminum sulphate is the only one that is able to respond both ways during Hydrolysis. That is create an acid and an alkali.

Furthermore the CuSO4 precipitated the copper onto the electrodes irreversibly suggesting that the Cu ions are not participating in the chemistry beyond the first charge. The final outcome of using CuSO4 is that it fails once all the copper is removed from solution. (This may be reversible by substituting AlSO4 or NaSO4 as both are more reactive!) (No doesn't work, battery is ruined!) Cu is not reactive in water either(giving us some further clues to the chemistry). Unlike Na or K which are strongly reactive.

************************************************** **********
Those reading please be warned I believe part of what is happening for NaSO4 is that native Na created in the charge process as small particles is reacting directly with the H20 to form H2 gas. This creates more H2 Gas than the common lead acid battery and could be explosive in confined spaces!!!! this is also probably true for KSO4 so watch out!
************************************************** **********

The other downside with NaSO4 is that solubility decreases markedly below 0 deg Celsius. This means that the battery would precipitate out in colder temperatures in Europe and the States amongst other places. Not really an issue here in South Australia!!!

I'll be adding my best battery to my car shortly to give it a real workout and see how i go. (5 weeks and still going strong!)

Jamie
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  #71  
Old 05-10-2012, 12:40 PM
JamieM JamieM is offline
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totoalas,
I have converted small 6 volt lead acid batteries right up to 622 CCA 12V batteries. It also works with Pb Ca batteries.
I have also converted maintenance free batteries by drilling through the top of each cell with a 17mm hole saw and then reseal with a plastic plug afterward.
All I can say is give it a try!
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  #72  
Old 05-10-2012, 01:18 PM
totoalas totoalas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieM View Post
totoalas,
I have converted small 6 volt lead acid batteries right up to 622 CCA 12V batteries. It also works with Pb Ca batteries.
I have also converted maintenance free batteries by drilling through the top of each cell with a 17mm hole saw and then reseal with a plastic plug afterward.
All I can say is give it a try!
Thanks Jaimie for the info Just by using the Minoly mod monster ssg / 10- w solar my 12 60 ah CA battery got the green indication but any way will convert to Alum sulfate on Saturday......
All my alum converted batteries are having charge voltage of ave 13.4 standing its 2 months now with no heat at all

totoalas
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  #73  
Old 05-20-2012, 05:46 PM
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IndianaBoys IndianaBoys is offline
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Negative Resistance non linear material?

Bearden's book "The Final Secret To Free Energy" page 22 refers to degenerate semiconductor material starting on page 22.

Have seen it somewhere referred to as "negative resistance" non linear material.

Does this parallel Bedini's battery forming video where he shows crystals forming up on the lead plates?

IndianaBoys
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  #74  
Old 06-03-2012, 08:00 PM
mauiflipper mauiflipper is offline
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Alum Conversion

Since this thread is about Alum conversion, let's just talk about that. Start another thread if you want to talk about something else. It's a pain to wade through a bunch of unrelated stuff.

Any way, I finally have a little time to try an alum conversion on some old FLA 2 volt cells from a submarine charter company. I picked these cells up about 2 years ago and they have been sitting ever since. I dumped out the Acid into a bucket and rinsed the cell out real well. I did one final rinse with distilled water. I then mixed 2 cups of Alum with 1 gallon of distilled water (per Chucks instructions) and heated that together on the stove. With the water hot, the alum mixed in almost immediately. With the water till warm, I poured the mixture into the cell. It immediately showed .4 volts. I am now charging that cell with Rejuvenator on the lowest settings. These are 500 amp hour cells. Charging voltage is at 2.2 volts right now. I plan on stopping it at 2.4-2.5 volts. I will just wait and see what the battery wants to do. Since, I'm using a charger that was meant for a 12 volt battery, I have to watch it and stop it manually.

Once it's done, I will check the resting voltage after 12 hours. If it's above 2 volts, I will do the same to the other 11 cells I have and make 24 a volt bank and hook it to my solar system and put it through it's paces. Hopefully, they aren't too badly sulfated and will take a charge, but so far, so good.

I have 12 other 2 volt cells from the same company and I brought them back pretty well, putting them in 12 volt configurations, using two Rejuvenators in parallel. They were all in operation, the day I picked them up, so I think this just might work.
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  #75  
Old 06-03-2012, 08:56 PM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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On the other end of the scale from your experiments mauiflipper, is my second converted battery, a regular 12V car battery.
(good luck with those cells btw, i'd not heard of such a type being converted before).

This battery was in regular use on our car til around 3 years ago, got dumped at the back of the garden and sat there til the end of last year. It was rejuventaed with a self built Bedini SSG and had some Epsom salts added to the presumed very weak acid. It then was solar charged by my 5W little system and ran a night light for a few months.
Resting voltage every night was about 10.5V or so and the nightlight circuit used <2mA. So, there has never been much more than it sitting around.
It was converted last week and I used the approx 1/10th Alum to distilled water process.
It charged nicely enough over a week, resting at just over 11V and with 2.5A available, albeit the output from the solar panels is only ever up to 0.4A.
It sits now, after 4 days off charge at only 9.2V.
Was my mix too weak...can I simply throw in some more Alum to bring it to 1/8 mix ?

However, there is a curious anomaly with this battery, now that it's just sitting around. If I use a car starter meter, which shows up to 25A as a battery checker, the amperage will rise over a 10 seconds period. Rather than show an instant level, it will gain over that time.
I disconnect the meter and the battery voltage will actually climb up to around 10.5V and sit there for a few hours !
Anyone know what's that about - does it mean it's suited for higher drain work ?
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  #76  
Old 06-03-2012, 11:44 PM
mauiflipper mauiflipper is offline
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That sounds really interesting, but I think I remember John saying something about alum batteries doing that in the videos or maybe it was at the last convention. I was thinking of testing this on a brand new battery that was already activated with sulfuric acid. When and if I do, I will post.

My 2 volt cell is charging well. The Electrolyte has risen a lot and actually spilled out, so it must be working. I had to siphon out quite a bit.
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  #77  
Old 06-06-2012, 04:27 AM
mauiflipper mauiflipper is offline
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Looks like the rejuvenator is just not going to work with a 2 Volt cell. It generates too much heat, because it is meant for a 12 battery. I supposed I could convert 6 2 volt cells and try again, but that's a lot of work for a test. I will try it on a single 12 volt battery first.
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  #78  
Old 06-24-2012, 02:24 AM
JamieM JamieM is offline
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Slider,
Further to your comments,
My experience is that I converted a 12 volt car battery with NaSO4 (Gauber Salt) and the battery produced a standing voltage of 11.5v. With this you would wonder if would work ok. Funny enough even on the colder days down to lowest of 2deg Celsius it turns over the motor. Not with the normal confidence of a lead acid, but a slightly longer build up to the cranking of the engine. But constantly and reliably. There may be something in your comments about the build to maximum current.

Here's my hypothesis.
A lead acid cell is more able to deliver current more readily due to the fact that the H+ ions are so light so have little inertia.
In a salt battery the metal ion (that replaces the H+) is about 11-13 x the weight so takes more time to get going. When its get going it creates a better internal (current) flow due the the multi charge of the ion for instance the Al ion in Alum is a Al3+. Thereby delivering 3 sulphate ions for each 2Al3+. In essence the Lead acid is 2H+ versus 1SO4-- (exchanging 2 charges at a time) and the salt (Alum) is 2Al3+ versus 3SO4--(exchanging 6 charges at a time).

Furthermore I think that the process can be reproduced by any soluble sulphate that does not cause a metal (or inorganic solid) to precipitate out when electrons are donated to it by the electrolysis process. COPPER SULPHATE as a consequence does not work!
Funnily enough Mg, Al and Na cannot exist in native form in water due to their reactivity and could possibly be creating OH complexes with the metal instantaneously when this occurs. This may significantly complicate working out the chemical equations as it is likely that we liberate some H+ ions creating a weak acid. We then may have both a salt and an acid present.

My prediction based on my hypothesis is that Potash (Potassium Sulphate, KSO4) could also work. Ammonium Sulphate ((NH4)2)SO4) is a fifty fifty chance of working as there is a chance of ammonia gas being produced (not good).


BTW When I had my batteries tested at the local battery place they were shocked that they were outputting at least 2/3 of the original CCA of the battery. Considering that these were rubbish batteries that they themselves were generous enough to supply. They were astounded.
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  #79  
Old 06-24-2012, 03:46 AM
JamieM JamieM is offline
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mauiflipper,
I think it may be more productive to try and charge up the batteries when in the lead acid state with the rejuvinator in order to remove as much lead sulphate as possible before you start. Then try the alum. Its better to improve the battery as much as possible to begin with even if it just produces a higher fluffy charge.
This seems to be doing ok for me.
Cheers
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Old 06-30-2012, 02:44 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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I finally am getting some results recorded for this conversion. To bad the thread is all but dead.

Anyway I have had a 12 year old set of Golf Cart batts that cam with my golf cart when I bought it used. They are 220 amp hour battery tied in serial for 36+ volt. They all have Plante plate arrangement
The capacity meter has registered them at 90 amp hour. They were pretty bad shape with alot of visible sulphation, bulging sides, and slightly warped plates. No shorts though.

I tried using a radiant charge to bring the capacity up with no luck. I also tried a cap dump method with no luck.

Finally I have run across articles at different places about using Epsom Salt to desulphate batteries and decided to give it a try.
I mixed 2 cups of Epsom with one quart of boiling water and let it cool.
I sucked the acid off the top of the plates with turkey baster and refilled the cells with the Epsom mix to fill line. Closed them up and gave them a couple of shakes to mix the fluids.
I wire the batts for a 12 volt configuration.
I charged the batteries with 10 amp straight charger until they registered on the charger as full and measured them with the capacity meter. They registered the first time at 130 amp hour. The voltage was 12.3 ... Success!!

Then I discharged them at 10 amp for 8 hours. and they dropped to 11.5.

I recharged them again with the ten amp hour charger until done. The resting voltage was 12.6. The capacity meter read 156 amp hour. I discharged them too 11 volt again shut the load off and let them rest the rested out at 11.5 +-. It was a 10 amp load for 11 hours.

I did this several times making sure as the batteries came up I increased the amp draw on the load and ran them longer.

Finally wound up with 6 batteries recovered and I serialized the again to see the capacity at 36 volt arrangement and they registered at 205 amp hour.

So now I washed them out real good and soaked and charged them with just distilled water. They didn't take the charged but the water did get acidic.
The flushed and dried them out added alum to them. And charged them on the 10 amp charger.

The voltage in a 12 volt config is 12.35. I can run a 40 amp load for 5 hours and drop the batts to 10.9 volt. Rested they come up to 11.6.
The capacity meter says they are 14 amp hour batts so I am not sure whats going on with that but I know I can pull 200 amp out at a 40 amp rate pretty easy.
As far charging them they take 21 hours at 10 amp to charge and then they deliver 40 amps for 5 hours.

So not only is this really efficient thing to do for your batteries, Its great thing when it comes recycling.

Everyone who had something to do with coming up with this, have really done us all a favor. I really do appreciate that this info is out there.

Thanks Alot
Matt
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  #81  
Old 08-18-2012, 01:32 PM
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This alum thing has got me thinking chemistry. Aluminium Sulphate can be created using the following process:

2 Al(OH)3 + 3 H2SO4 → Al2(SO4)36H2O

Basically adding Aluminium hydroxide to sulphuric acid yields hydrated Aluminium sulphate...

Aluminium Hydroxide can be bought as an ant-acid called Alu-cap.

Wondering if adding Alu-cap capsule powder into the cells will convert the battery over....

Has anyone tried this?
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Old 08-19-2012, 07:43 AM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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Interesting comments, including the Alu-cap (haven't tried it).
Sorry I didn't reply to your thoughts JamieM, though your posts were read with keen interest.

As an update....the battery that was rising slowly in amperage when loaded, is now sat outside. I was daily charging it for around 2 months, until a week or so ago. I was charging it up with 3 small solar panels, giving a total output of approx 0.5A and 12V via an LM317T regulator. It would drop overnight to the same approx 9.5V and 1A as it has for months and would charge to 11.3V and 3A by the end of a strong summer days sun.
If used immediately in the evening, I could run up to 3A continuous, but overnight running has never been a test.
So, i've disconnected, due to it never really going anywhere as a powerful source for general 12V car battery usage. When tried on our car immediately after a days charge, the lights on the dash came on, but then just a click from the starter.

Would folks recommend to simply redo the alum conversion and, if so, at what dilution ?
Or, does experience suggest this one is probably as good as it could ever be ?
I dont have a car charger with 5A output to throw at it, hence the solar route.
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  #83  
Old 08-20-2012, 03:47 PM
Nick_Z Nick_Z is offline
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Slider:
My car battery just went out on me. I do have 10 amp car battery charger, but even though I charge this battery all night until it feels warm to the touch, it does just what yours is doing, and won't start my car. New one is needed.
I will use that battery on my Exciter circuits to see what it can do. I feel that what is needed is a 12v source, but, with only 200 mA of current, so that the transistors don't get too hot.

NickZ
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  #84  
Old 08-23-2012, 01:57 PM
JamieM JamieM is offline
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Guys I was just reading a post by John Bedini on another forum and he suggested that high voltage low current may help deal with sulphate on the plates if that is the problem. Slider can you adjust the regulated voltage of your pv output to 15-16v. That might do the trick! My only concern is that you are getting warm batteries which suggests possibly warped plates.
The other thing you could try is deep discharging the battery. Provided it has an alum salt it can handle it. I took mine down to 1volt and then recharged.
I did this about 3 times. They like to be exercised.
Btw the Gauber Salt battery is still working in my car!
That's 5 months!
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  #85  
Old 08-24-2012, 03:43 AM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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@Nick - That battery is a prime candidate for radiant charging. That's how the other of my batteries went. Failed on the car and then did nothing with a borrowed standard auto charger.

@JamieM - It doesn't get warm at all under charge or discharge, just doesn't really hold much beyond 9.5V and 1/2A for long periods. In some respects, if I could just take it off charge and use it right away, then the issue wouldn't be there ! Arguably it likes to be used and kind of folds its arms at me if it isn't lol
I'll bet there's a bad plate. It was in the backyard for 2 years. Yeah, I built a voltage settable LM317T circuit some time back...so i'll dial that up to 15V or so, thanks for the tip. With it never getting to 12V, the 12V regulation was thought adequate.
It was initially rejuved on an SSG and probably needs a bit more of that treatment. One of our cats knocked the SSG onto the floor though and it smashed up...again...for the third time. So, I have to rebuilt it and then move it.

I think I know the course of action
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  #86  
Old 08-30-2012, 07:36 PM
naninano naninano is offline
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Dear friends,
I have a 66Ah Pb Ca acid battery which worked 3 years.
Recently in one day it stopped its strong starting, one day after adding Sulforic acid instead distilled water to the low level cells.
Today, I bought 4 litter of battery acid and replaced the acid after draining old acid and washing the cells by baking soda.
I used the mixture of 1 teaspoon to 3 litter water and filled the cells, but I didn't see any tangible boiling due to baking soda just some poor bulbs visited.

I reinstalled the battery and started after half of hour strongly and I drove it about 1 hour.
After 4 hours, I checked its voltage that was 10.11 V and started again. Its starting was not bad. After above steps I think my battery is working too better but the voltage is dropping after several hours.
Now I want to know does the Epsom Slat is useful for revive my battery ? And how?

Thank for your replays.
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:40 AM
naninano naninano is offline
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Today(16hrs after last measurement) I checked the voltage again it is equal to 11.5V.
I removed the battery and drained its electrolit and washed and refilled it by warm water. I checked its voltage containing water is 11.68V and strongly power up a 55w headlight. I am wonderful.
Now I recharging it by a 19V 2A non smart charger and water containing.
I want to resolve the sulfates in water, because read in an article that water can resolve the sulfate better than sulfuric acid.

But I need you guides, because I don't know my method is correct or not.
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Old 09-02-2012, 04:15 AM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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@naninano I used Epsom salt on a battery that was failing and it improved slightly, bit better charging, bit better voltage and amperage. I'd say it improved by 1/2V to a resting voltage of about 10.5V and would charge to 2A or so with 450mA small solar panels.
The quantity was about 4oz or so of the salts, if I remember correctly.
There are guides on Youtube about it all i'm sure. That battery ended up converted to Alum.

And, speaking of which, I seem to have fixed the lowly output of the other of the 2 car batteries here. On seeing Lidmotor's new video on Youtube, I realised i'd originally mixed the Alum with cold dstilled water !
AHA! warm water is needed to properly dissolve the Alum. So, I put the battery in the full sun and shook it around after a few hours.
The battery now charges to 11.5V and output is approx 3A (same 450mA solar charging in the day).
It's now in service, running a cooling fan on my work table...and runs it all day without issue - it couldn't do that before. Next is to add an inverter circuit and run more stuff, like the 13W CFL on the table etc.
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Old 09-02-2012, 08:51 PM
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kcarring kcarring is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
I finally am getting some results recorded for this conversion. To bad the thread is all but dead.
I have a 27 series battery RV, deep cycle, that is similar in nature. It will charge and hold to 12.4, but left alone will sink to 11.0V. Lousy, but good enough to believe there are no shorted cells.

Like you, after many attempts using SS SSG, air core, and TSO SS SSG air core... I'm never able to raise the voltage to equalization, say 14.8 or so... despite having run through many discharges, re-tries, etc. It's been through at least 6 or 7 runs. It will handle a load, but does not like to hold above 12V while operating. In essence, it acts like a 20 a/H battery instead of say 75 or 80 - I believe it was rated at 80.

I'm doing one more attempt at TSO, and if unsuccessful, I'm going to tip it over, flush it with RO water and then use epsom salts.

The funny thing, to me, is though: this:

Epsom salts MGSO4

Alum KAl(SO4)212H2O

In looking at those formulas it's relatively easy to guess that the magnesium and Aluminum in each, respectively, will form the catalyst or conductive element... but ...

what is left?

Is it not the recipe for yet again, making new sulfuric acid H2S04?
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  #90  
Old 09-02-2012, 11:19 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcarring View Post
I have a 27 series battery RV, deep cycle, that is similar in nature. It will charge and hold to 12.4, but left alone will sink to 11.0V. Lousy, but good enough to believe there are no shorted cells.

Like you, after many attempts using SS SSG, air core, and TSO SS SSG air core... I'm never able to raise the voltage to equalization, say 14.8 or so... despite having run through many discharges, re-tries, etc. It's been through at least 6 or 7 runs. It will handle a load, but does not like to hold above 12V while operating. In essence, it acts like a 20 a/H battery instead of say 75 or 80 - I believe it was rated at 80.

I'm doing one more attempt at TSO, and if unsuccessful, I'm going to tip it over, flush it with RO water and then use epsom salts.

The funny thing, to me, is though: this:

Epsom salts MGSO4

Alum KAl(SO4)212H2O

In looking at those formulas it's relatively easy to guess that the magnesium and Aluminum in each, respectively, will form the catalyst or conductive element... but ...

what is left?

Is it not the recipe for yet again, making new sulfuric acid H2S04?
You do not want to use the epsom salt with alum. You add epsom salt to the acid prior to converting to alum. This helps remove sulphation. Or if not removing sulphation it does lower the internal resistance a good bit. Either way it allows a battery with decent plate material, that has just been cooked to much to start to function correctly.

The alum mix will never allow the voltages to go to high. They will always be lower because of the PH of the solution.

Besides all the post's on the subject you can read.
Battery Builders Guide .

It pretty insightful and straight forward on the different types and solutions around those types of LABS.

Mine are still holding up good. They cycle out everyday and have nothing but a big transformer rectified hooked to mains to charge them. I have not seen either a loss or gain in the performance since I switched them out.

Matt
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