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  #1  
Old 02-18-2012, 07:17 AM
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Post 3 Battery Generating System

Greetings all,
I stumbled upon something by accident.

THE STORY:
A circuit similar to one first posted by John Bedini some years ago. Two charged batteries, one discharged battery and a load. I used a 12 volt DC motor as the load. We had a battery that would take, but not hold a charge for our third battery. THIS IS CRITICAL TO YOUR SUCCESS!!!!! IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A BATTERY THAT WILL TAKE A CHARGE BUT NOT HOLD IT IN YOUR THIRD POSITION YOU WILL NOT GET THE SAME RESULTS I HAVE GOTTEN. You MAY get some good results, but you will probably NOT get AMAZING results. ARE WE CLEAR ABOUT THAT???!!!

When we first threw the switch, nothing happened. Ten to fifteen minutes later the motor suddenly started up. The voltage on the bad battery would jump to 24 volts. It would go down to about 18 volts, and then the motor would slowly start and begin to run, speeding up gradually. The voltage would continue to drop down to around nine volts, at which time the motor would suddenly shut off and the voltage would immediately jump back to 24 volts and the cycle would repeat.

To try and get the system to keep from shutting off, I ASSUMED I needed to keep the battery in the third position from becoming charged, so I began to hook loads to it. I used an inverter and powered all kinds of loads, balancing the load on battery three by putting an additional LOAD ON THE MOTOR. It did amazing things. Then it quit, or I killed it somehow by taking it apart.

I posted a whole bunch of stuff at OU (David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device) Recently, MANY PEOPLE have had success. Hence this post.

CAUTION: You build AT YOUR OWN RISK. This system uses lead acid batteries which can EXPLODE. Take all proper precautions.

REQUIREMENTS:
1. Battery 3 should be a "bad" battery. One that doesn't want to hold more than 4 to 6 volts.
2. Battery 3 must ba a battery that WILL NOT ALLOW THE MOTOR TO START WHEN FIRST CONNECTED.
3. ALL 3 batteries MUST be the same type, i.e. flooded lead acid or AGM
4. You need a LOAD ON THE MOTOR for this to work
5. A PULSE motor works better than a standard motor, but a standard motor WILL work. You will get AMAZING TORQUE AND SPEED OUT OF A STANDARD MOTOR
6. Switching the connections on the motor will produce better results in one direction of motor rotation over the other.

PROCESS:
FOLLOW THESE STEPS EXACTLY OR DONíT BOTHER ASKING FOR HELP!
1. Connect up the setup
2. When you flip the switch the very first time, the motor SHOULD NOT START immediately. (If it does, you do not have a battery that will work in the third position so DON'T WASTE your time!
3. In a few minutes the motor will start running. If the motor hasnít started within 24 hours, this battery will not work in the third position BUT is perfect for our battery modification experiments.
4. If, however, you can spin the motor by hand and the system begins to work, you can use this battery.

If you have an analogue meter on battery 3, you should see the voltage jump (when the switch is thrown) to 24+ volts. It will go slowly down to around 18 volts, and THEN the motor will start. The voltage will go down to around 12 or 13 volts, and stabilize. IF the voltage continues to go down to around 9 volts, and the motor shuts off, the voltage jumps back up to 24 volts and the cycle repeats, you probably have the perfect battery.

This experiment is to make sure you have the RIGHT kind of battery. At this point you need to stop and let your primary batteries sit and rest overnight, recharging them if they don't recover. You also need to drain battery three by connecting a light to it and leaving it overnight.

AFTER DOING ALL THAT AND LETTING THE SYSTEM REST OVERNIGHT, reconnect everything. Flip the switch to start the system and you will find that this time the motor starts IMMEDIATELY. Shut it off, add a small load like an auto dome light or even an auto headlight...something to keep battery three from charging. I only had you start it so you could ponder the following.

SoÖ..if the delay in starting you saw yesterday were because of a difference in potential between the set of two batteries in series and the single battery, when could that potential possibly be GREATER than when you have just charged the two main batteries while at the same time, discharging the bad battery all night long with a bulb on it?

If the delay was because there was not enough juice in the bad battery, how could there possibly be LESS juice than there is right now, when you have drained the bad battery ALL NIGHT LONG. It should have NO juice. None. So you should be having to put some juice into the battery for the motor to start. It should take LONGER to start than it did yesterday, and yet the motor started immediately.

It is my belief that we are talking about some kind of magnetic alignment that takes place in a bad battery and continues as long as there is a load on the battery, and also lasts for a couple days after the load is removed. If you can let it sit for a couple days, hook it back into the system, flip the switch, and once again the motor will NOT start immediately.

Once you have the two batteries fully charged, the bad battery drained, and a small load connected between the terminals on battery 3, you are ready for the experimenting to really begin.

You must MATCH the load on the motor with a load on battery 3.
UNTIL THE LOADS ARE MATCHED YOU ARE DRAINING THE PRIMARIES. I use a bunch of small bulbs with switches to connect each one to battery three. Flip a switch to turn on one of these lights and the motor will immediately speed up. Let it run for five minutes. If the loads are matched, the motor will suddenly speed up AGAIN. When you are in this "zone", the speed and torque will be awesome. You can continue to add loads to battery three, but add a load, wait five minutes, add a load, wait five minutes. At some point the load will cause the motor to drop out of the "zone" Now you have two choices. Reduce the load on battery 3, or INCREASE the load on the motor to get it back in the zone.

We are NOT trying to build a device that will charge battery #3. We know we can do that....or use a Bedini charger which is probably more efficient, although a little more complicated.

We are, at a minimum, trying to get the use of the motor without the draw down on the primary batteries. This would involve the use of the energy produced by the motor to recharge those batteries.

But MORE than that. My original device ran loads off battery three that could not POSSIBLY have been run by the energy produced by the motor if it is only EQUAL to that provided to the motor by batteries one and two. It is my belief that battery three opens a "gate" to energy that comes in to charge the battery and as long as we put loads on battery three to PREVENT it from becoming charged, we get a WHOLE LOT of that energy.

If we balance the load on battery three and the load on the motor, there is NO drawdown on batteries one and two. BUT just because you load down battery three doesnít mean it hasnít reached a state where it wants to charge up. When that happens, the setup quits working, so it is NOT just a matter of putting loads on battery 3. Even with a perfectly balanced setup, this happens eventually with every battery 3 we have tried. WE need to understand what it takes to replicate my original or find a replacement. THAT IS OUR GOAL HERE.


Good Luck!
Dave Bowling
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Old 02-18-2012, 08:43 AM
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Hi Dave,

Hope you had a look at the link I posted in tesla switch.

Garry
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Old 02-18-2012, 09:15 AM
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Hi Dave, I did a second attempt since I posted on the Lockridge thread. This
time I used the small motor instead of the larger one I used the first time. Now
the bad battery went to zero volts instead of rising. More interesting results
the first time. Will try again.

George
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Old 02-18-2012, 12:46 PM
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Replication success

Replication success or kind of. This time I used a third much smaller sla for the
bad battery. I observed everything that you have described and shown in your
videos, load on bad battery speeds up motor, load on motor increases bad battery output, etc. The hard part seems to be finding the right "bad battery".
Could there be some way to replace this part of the system ? Capacitor bank ?
Or some kind of circuit, maybe attached to another good battery ? I think you
have something more here than what someone claimed at Overunity.com that
it was just the arcing or sparking of the motor brushes causing this. I think
this might turn out to be an important discovery if the bugs can be ironed out
so that it will work on a consistent basis. Thanks for telling us about it Dave.

George
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Old 02-18-2012, 03:05 PM
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Turion

I checked out Garrypm's Tesla thread link to the tinman's L.A.G. motor. He seems to be getting similar results when in oscillation mode. I think he is using three good batteries. He claims that you can not do this with a regular off the shelf motor.without major modifications. But you have proved him wrong. An off the shelf motor does work here. Have you tried this with three good batteries ? Or will it not work that way ?

George
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Old 02-18-2012, 03:13 PM
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Another question

Dave have you tried charging a fourth good battery as a load on the bad battery ? I think you would have to use diodes or a FWBR.

George
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Old 02-18-2012, 04:07 PM
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I have hooked a chargeable battery to the third battery in parallel, and got the fourth battery to charge. If you put a good battery in the third position it doesn't seem to work. But at this point I will try anything, and am documenting EVERYTHING with video. I have also hooked FOUR batteries in series with the bad battery and another battery I wanted to charge also in series (reversed) with the bad battery, so that I had the voltage differential. Since my motor is rated from 12-110 volts, it just ran faster. I have put SIX batteries in series vs two reversed, and the motor REALLY runs off that higher voltage, plus the six batteries easily run loads and recover quickly from the little draw down. I think it helps that the motor is spinning faster with these higher voltages. There is just a lot of experimenting that needs to be done with this.

Here is the link that was mentioned:
The L.A.G new circuit_strange scope shot 2.flv - YouTube

I DON'T agree that this can't be done with an off the shelf motor, because I know for a FACT it can, but then again, everyone's setup is different, so what I have seen may not apply to what someone else has going.

I have been seriously thinking about combining a motor in line with Matt's Tesla Switch on the Use For The Tesla Switch forum, so that when two batteries in series are connected to one, they are always passing through the motor to get there.

Again, we are just scratching the surface, which is why I posted here. We need more people messing with this and it is NOT some big expensive thing to set up, at least not for people who are already experimenting and probably have ALL this stuff lying around in their shops...except perhaps the "right" bad battery. And YES the bad battery seems to be the critical part of the equation.

I am experimenting with the one I have, so I will discuss that here a bit. I have a 7.5 amp hour "bad" battery. When I connected it to the motor, the motor didn't start immediately, but within a minute or two it started up. Voltage went down to 18 and motor started. Voltage went down to 13 and leveled off. It never dropped to 9 and shut the system down. I put metal filings in two of the cells on the battery, waited overnight, and repeated the experiment. The motor didn't start right away, which means adding filings destroyed that "alignment" inside the battery I talked about. And it took longer before the motor would start up...about 5 minutes. I put metal filings in two more cells and repeated. Again, the motor wouldn't start right up and this time it took 9 minutes before the motor kicked on. I ran out of metal filings, and am sawing things up with a hack saw to get some more. But my bench vise is stripped, so I had to get a new one (yesterday) so will continue in this mode to see what happens and report.

David
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Old 02-18-2012, 04:41 PM
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Your three battery idea reminds me of this:
THE TESLA SWITCH
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Old 02-18-2012, 05:27 PM
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wrtner,

That is the diagram I saw four years ago, and what got me started down this road. The difference here is that this circuit requires you to rotate the position of the batteries. I'm saying that IF you have the right setup, you don't have to do that. IF you have the right bad battery and IF you balance the load on battery three with the load on the motor, you get some really, really interesting results. I'm not claiming to have invented this circuit. I'm just saying that people need to put some bad batteries in the third position and see what they see.

Think about this. It has already been proven that when you pass voltage from a higher source through a load to the lower source, almost none of that voltage is used. That's the whole theory behind the Tesla switch in the first place. But if that load ALSO produces or adds power of its own to the system, NOW what do you have? That's what I believe we are doing here.
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Old 02-18-2012, 10:11 PM
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Hi folks, again, this looks very similar to magnacoasters first videos.
Where he had a bedini type rotor energizer feeding radiant pulses to a dead battery i believe, then he would hook a standard inverter to his car battery and would try to run medium loads like a power drill and the inverter shut off sounds and lights would kick in.
Then when he turned on his energizer and then tried to run the loads off the inverter connected to his large dead battery, it would run the drill and many other loads.
So something similar to this setup is happening inside the battery with this setup.
I don't think the 3 batteries are needed in all setups, there is an effect here inside the battery that needs to be figured out, I bet bedini knows all about it and I bet the Watson machine used a similar principle.
peace love light
tyson
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Old 02-19-2012, 06:27 AM
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Thanks Turion

Thanks Dave for replying with all the extra info. This definitely works. My good
batteries returned to their full charge after resting for a while. That last test I ran for well over half an hour. I want to try different possible configurations
now. I will try my first two bad batteries in parallel first, then go from there.
This does seem to be the Tesla switch principle working. Lets hope more
people start messing around with this so we can uncover the secret of the
"right bad battery". Thanks again for revealing this.

George
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Old 02-19-2012, 11:37 AM
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A few Observations what I got from bad Batteries.
When i charge them on a Bedini charger, my Rotor indicates if the Battery has less or more Resistance in it, with the noise what the Coils make.
Bad Gel Batteries have mostly less Resistance in herself. The measured Resistance is may different.
Once it happened to me, that one from the bad Gel-Batteries had little Resistance, and as I did start to charge it, it was like, the Current did break like through a Barrier and the Accu had less Resistance again, rised fast in Voltage and did not keep charge anymore.
At Lead Acid Batteries it looks like its the other Way around, once i damaged the Transformer inside a Charger, it did overhead because of the high Resistance from a LA Batterie, what was a few Years outside Summer and Winter.

But the Effect i see here seems like is, as if the 3rd Battery is kinda a Load, what change its Resistance with the State from its charge from low to higher, as more Current runs through,
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Old 02-19-2012, 04:17 PM
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Well I did not try the two batteries in parallel. Instead I tried the battery that worked after draining it. It worked for a while but then stopped and the voltage was at about 12.3v. Then I put it on a 2 amp charger and now it was taking a charge whereas before it did not. I think somehow it might be restored now. Then I tried a battery that had been in my car which I had replaced with a new one. After taking a while to start the motor, it worked for a while also but when it became charged it quit. Seems like you need a battery that will not take a full charge, but still has to be able to take some charge. Adding loads also helps
to keep the battery from taking too much charge. We need something that can mimick these qualities. Maybe a motor with a cap or caps, that can take a charge (at the right rate) and then send the rest into the load of the motor.
Maybe some kind of cap pulser like Bits and Bytes has.

George
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Old 02-19-2012, 06:13 PM
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Hello Everyone,

I've been playing with this setup for the last 3 weeks before I have had to charge the first 2 batteries. In this time, I've used a 12-volt CIM motor like those used in robotics, model FP801-005 and a Pacific Scientific motor rated at 2.5HP, 124-volts @ 18amps. The PacSci motor is from a treadmill - so it has a shaft that comes out of each end of the motor... With the differential of only 12 volts, I've used welding gloves and my hands to apply a load to the PacSci shaft and there is so much torque developed that it literally smokes the gloves...

I am more inclined to think there is something going on in the magnetic domain than just a charging effect from pulsing, though I don't have the equipment to see what the magnetic fields are doing. Maybe we can some up with some way to see? A Hall maybe? I think its interesting how there is a sudden "switch" and the motor jumps up in rpm. My first thought is that its a magnetic domain switching? I don't know enough about this to understand why the instant increase in RPM. I would think that if a battery is slowly gaining in charge, that the motor would slowly gain in rpm but that's not what happens here... it leaps up in rpm as you can see in the video...

Also, the increase in load on battery 3 seems to relieve the generated power in the motor which would normally be fighting the incoming power according to Peter Lindemann's DVD "Electric Motor Secrets"... The goal here is to pull as much of the generated power out of the motor as we can thereby lessening the motor's voltage requirement to run. Plus the faster the motor turns, the more it generates... you stairstep your way up... load on battery 3, more load on motor, more load on battery 3, more load on the motor... The motor load does NOT have to be mechanical. It can be a nose or belt coupled motor being used as a generator adding more load to it. That in turn will create the mechanical load on the first motor...

BTW, that's my video at Valerifon1 that David posted the link to. I shot this while out in the garage waiting for a load of clothes for work late at night.. I hadn't planned on sharing it with the "masses" else I might have been a little more clear about what was going on wth it... It was originally just meant for a couple of people but then decided to share it with the group... I really didn't want to post anything until I had it really and completely working... which I do not yet....

My initial thoughts about this circuit were that as the battery gains some charge, it gains enough that it can send something back across the motor to batteries 1 & 2. If you read Leedskalnin's book on magnets he explains that current, even in a DC circuit, flows both ways even if synchronously... In our discussions, David said he thought the voltage lowering on the meter was showing the difference between the 24-volt stack and the 12-volt battery. That may be the case - I'm not certain of that yet. There are several things we're not certain about - hence the thread here. Then, once the motor is turning, the voltage continues to drop...

Now, about this voltage drop. Since the battery is a bad battery that won't hold a charge, its apparent to me that there is some kind of shorting or bridging going on between the plates of one or more of the cells in the battery and the result is that the battery is discharging itself. What this means to me, is that there is a resistance between the positive and negative plates and this is not far off to seeing the positive pole as the plate in a vacuum tube, and the negative pole as the cathode. The resistance between them, allows each side to "see" just a bit of the other. This is like putting a resistance between the signal path and ground to increase gain in a vacuum tube circuit. At least, in my mind this is how I relate to this.

Since my 3rd battery kept wanting to recover, I put the dome light between the terminals to mimic what is happening inside the battery to some degree. It did help. Now I'm thinking of using a variable resistance across the terminals of battery 3 in an attempt to see if it can be tuned. (I will also try it in series with battery 3). Being that there is a little negative bias on the positive terminal and a little positive bias on the negative terminal of battery 3 due to the inner resistance bridging due to the material falling off the plates and shorting the cell, I then wondered if this little bit of negative bias (like the grid in a vacuum tube) is causing a polarity flip in the motor and I wonder if THIS is why the motor suddenly leaps upward in RPM?

My batteries took 2 days to get back to original voltage but they are now sitting at the voltage they were at when I started this run. In an earlier video I made of this setup running, they did not fully recover - but that run was done after playing with and running the setup with 2 different motors for almost 3 weeks...

So this is pretty much the bulk of where we are with this setup at this point. Other things I want to try, are putting a variable resistance across battery 3 to see if I can help tune-in what might be happening in David's original bad battery... and of course, trying other "bad" batteries in position 3. I have one more out in the garage that is sitting at 1.8 volts that might be a good candidate... this setup has the "bad" habit of fixing bad batteries...

It may be a resonant system that we retune by adjusting the load on the DC motor which in turn keeps the voltage in a range that can accomodate the inverter...

regards,

Luther
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Old 02-19-2012, 06:51 PM
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I built the following circuit to test a concept of Don Smith it is not the same as your motor as it drains the battery of any current such that it will not run anything yet it retains its voltage to a major extent.
it was designed to use the base collector as a diode rectifier to collect any reverse charge pulse from the oscillators and it has run for more than 38 days before i stopped it lighting a LED the whole time.
though it is not the same it may have some clues for someone here as a reverse action to what you are seeing so want to pass it along.

Flip-Flop Double Joule Thief - YouTube

Martin
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Old 02-19-2012, 08:20 PM
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Nice work Turion! I did some things similar about a year ago. Don't have time now to write more - just skimmed your info but will check back in later. I really think there is something good to this to further investigate.
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:29 PM
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Hey guys, Great thread!
I am poking through my batteries for a bad one that fits the description.
I have been testing one for a few days, attempting to charge it up with an SSG then draining it with a small load.
It is doing some odd stuff, like reading over 12V when on the charge side of the SSG, but immediately after you remove it, it drops to maybe 2V. When I put a joule thief on it as a load with 3 series LEDs, it will run the LEDs and the voltage drops to less than a volt.
is this what I am looking for, or should I move on to another one?
(almost forgot to mention) it is a 12V 4Ah battery, and my run batteries will be 12V 7.5Ah, if that makes some difference.
I am interested in giving this a shot, and might start with the AA version mentioned by Stealth.
Any advice is greatly appreciated!
Thanks
N8
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:27 AM
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Neight,
If that is a lead acid battery, I'd say it's an excellent candidate. I don't have any experience with having ANY success with other than lead acid batteries. There is just something about them that I don't think other batteries have, so I will stay away from anything else. That's my advice, but this is all about experimentation.

I got 10 batteries that were in the trash pile. Four of them I have restored to working usable condition using this setup. The others I am working my way through, trying to find a battery that will mimic my original setup. If you can find a battery that sits at low voltage and WILL NOT TAKE A CHARGE, you are probably Golden...at least for a while. I think eventually it might even restore a completely sulfated battery if there is any lead at all left in the plates.
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:46 PM
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Some random rhoughts on this 3 battery setup

First let me say I'm intrigued by this arrangement. I seem to remember that the load on the motor and the third battery needs to be closely matched for best results. I wonder if matching the motor and third battery in either capacitance or resistance would help.
As I was reading this thread I had another thought about using a generator instead of a motor. The generator I'm referring to was in use in US cars until about 1965. The ones where the headlights would dim at an idle and dependent on rpm to make current.
Turion thanks for posting this as it would seem to have potential if nothing else using regular LA batteries in a solar setup instead of the more expensive deep cycle. Exhaust those batteries and at "worse" recondition them. Speaking of deep cycle batteries would those make a difference as the first two batteries in this set up?
-Lyn
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:13 AM
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Lyn.
I have used deep cycle batteries. They recover as well or better than what we are using. The reason I have been using the smaller batteries is because I want to see rather quickly that they are being drawn down by my loads, so I know whether what I am trying is working or not. With the deep cell it takes a while to be able to tell, just because they are so many amp hours.

And I need to make a correction here. I have ben using the 18 AMP hour batteries since the very beginning, not the 7.5. I have some of those, as well as 3 amp hour batteries, but it is the 18's I have hooked up. In the third position I am trying a variety of batteries. Sorry about that. For some reason I had it in my head that those batteries were 7.5 and it was Luther that pointed out to me that they are not.

I never work on this stuff on the weekends, and this was a three day weekend for me, but will be back at it hard tomorrow, trying some new things and continuing to work on my energizer.

David
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Neight,
If that is a lead acid battery, I'd say it's an excellent candidate. I don't have any experience with having ANY success with other than lead acid batteries. There is just something about them that I don't think other batteries have, so I will stay away from anything else. That's my advice, but this is all about experimentation.

I got 10 batteries that were in the trash pile. Four of them I have restored to working usable condition using this setup. The others I am working my way through, trying to find a battery that will mimic my original setup. If you can find a battery that sits at low voltage and WILL NOT TAKE A CHARGE, you are probably Golden...at least for a while. I think eventually it might even restore a completely sulfated battery if there is any lead at all left in the plates.
Excellent, thank you Turion! It is a Lead Acid battery. I found it in my house when I moved in, it was in an old security system control panel that hadn't been in use for years. I have been trying to get it to take a charge with my SSG for quite some time with no luck. I need to pick up a 12DC motor somewhere to run this experiment, but short of that, I am eager to give this a try!
I will see what I can come up with, and will post my results!
I am pretty excited to see what comes out of this, and thanks for sharing!

N8
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:42 AM
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Neight,
All the motors that Luther and I have used so far have been wound rotor and wound stator 12 volt DC. No PM (permanent magnet) motors. They may work, but I don't know for sure.

David
Edit:
I think I'm getting senile. These ARE PM motors. The ones I have with wound rotors and stators were for the motor modification that Dr. Lindemann discussed in his thread. Sorry about that!! Don't know what I was thinking.
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Last edited by Turion; 02-21-2012 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:50 AM
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That is what I meant, I have made several brushless motors, but I don't have any on hand with wound rotor and brushes. I might try to hook something up through a simple brushless motor, but ultimately I want to stay true to the current tests, and that means I need to find a working motor somewhere.
would I need 24VDC motor, since I will be using two 12V batteries to power it?
I need to re-read your first post, but I do get the concept, and I am sure I can find a DC motor easy enough, though I might have to wait a bit, if I have to buy one.
Thanks for the heads up, I am not always great on details in my posts, but I did mean a brushed DC motor

N8
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:46 AM
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Motor

Here is the motor I have been using (video made by kcarring). I also use a smaller 12v fan as a load. I have retried the battery that seemed to get fixed
and it still works when drained. It did not get fixed completely, but is better than it was. Also tried another battery and the process worked for a while.

12volt DC motor - Bedini Mod? - YouTube


George
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRC View Post
Here is the motor I have been using (video made by kcarring). I also use a smaller 12v fan as a load. I have retried the battery that seemed to get fixed
and it still works when drained. It did not get fixed completely, but is better than it was. Also tried another battery and the process worked for a while.

12volt DC motor - Bedini Mod? - YouTube


George
I am glad you posted this! I completely forgot I have a few 12DC PC fans. They are brushless, but it gave me something to try tonight.
The bad battery that I am using wouldn't take any thing more than 3.5V on my SSG, and as soon as I connected any load at all to it, even a joule thief, it would drop down to 1.5V or less, and die in a hurry.
when it is on the SSG charging, it would read 11-12V charge.

I hooked everything up as per Turion's first post (fan connected to pos of battery 1 and 3, neg of 1 connected to pos of 2, and neg of 2 connected to neg of 3) and the fan started right away, which I understand may not be a good thing, but oddly enough the bad battery (bat 3) is reading 17V and climbing at the moment when it is under load. when I remove the fan, I now get 4V and dropping, instead of the 3.5V I had seen on it previously as a high mark. Not sure what to make of it yet, but I am looking to connect a load to bat 3 and see what happens next
The fan is running, though no where near full power yet, and it has some LED's in it, which will flash off every few minutes. the fan doesn't seem to change speed when it happens, though it is hard to tell. Not sure what that means either. I will leave the test running for a while, monitor all three bat voltages, and post what happens.
Thanks for making that post FRC, you got me started at least!

N8

I have connected a light bulb I pulled out of a drill press that stopped working to bat 3, to see what happens. With the bulb connected, The voltage on bat 3 drops to 14.5V and sort of stabilizes, though it does still show it climbing slowly. Batteries 1 and 2 don't seem to notice the extra load at all, and in fact, bat 1 gained a few mV after the bulb was connected. I do not get much light at all out of the bulb mind you, but it does glow ever so slightly...
Again, not sure if any of this even means anything, but I am trying to document it, in case it is helpful in any way
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:37 AM
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Neight,
I think you will find that battery one will hold its own. It is usually the second battery of the two in series (the one with the neg connected to the neg of battery 3) that tends to drop in voltage. You will get some charging of batt 3 and then it will level off. At this point the two batteries will hold level for a while and then #2 will begin to lose a little charge. This is when I will shut it down and allow my batteries one and two to recover. If you push it too far, they won't. The longest I have had to wait for full recovery is two days. But I have been running loads on battery three for "free" during the time it was running. My next attempt will be to switch my motor to between the two NEGATIVES at this point and see if I can flip the polarity of the batteries back the other way. Run it this way for a while, and then go back to splitting the positives again. Once that polarity has flipped and run that way for a little while, that's when we lose the ability of the system to generate power without USING power. Getting it to sustain the power production without using power requires a VERY SPECIAL battery in the third position. You need one that will still let current flow, but will NOT accept a charge AT ALL. Totally sulfated!!! This will be very hard to find. Possibly switching the motor to between the negatives and then back to between the positives will extend the power production window. I don't know. That's what I will be working on tomorrow, among other things.

You may find that this setup "fixes" your bad battery. I have 'fixed" several. LOL It really ticks me off!

David
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Last edited by Turion; 02-21-2012 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Neight,
I think you will find that battery one will hold its own. It is usually the second battery of the two in series (the one with the neg connected to the neg of battery 3) that tends to drop in voltage. You will get some charging of batt 3 and then it will level off. At this point the two batteries will hold level for a while and then #2 will begin to lose a little charge. This is when I will shut it down and allow my batteries one and two to recover. If you push it too far, they won't. The longest I have had to wait for full recovery is two days. But I have been running loads on battery three for "free" during the time it was running. My next attempt will be to switch my motor to between the two NEGATIVES at this point and see if I can flip the polarity of the batteries back the other way. Run it this way for a while, and then go back to splitting the positives again. Once that polarity has flipped and run that way for a little while, that's when we lose the ability of the system to generate power without USING power. Getting it to sustain the power production without using power requires a VERY SPECIAL battery in the third position. You need one that will still let current flow, but will NOT accept a charge AT ALL. Totally sulfated!!! This will be very hard to find. Possibly switching the motor to between the negatives and then back to between the positives will extend the power production window. I don't know. That's what I will be working on tomorrow, among other things.

You may find that this setup "fixes" your bad battery. I have 'fixed" several. LOL It really ticks me off!

David
So far, my results seem to be more or less fitting the profile here. Battery 3 did pretty well stabilize at around 12.5V and the other two batteries drained a tiny bit, bat 2 more than 1, so I removed power, and placed battery 3 under a load to drain. Battery 3 did drop back down to 4V again, and when I put a joule thief with a few LED's on it, it dropped down to 1V pretty quick, though it is still running the joule thief nicely. It's kind of funny seeing that big of a battery running a small joule thief with 3 series LED's and not getting full light out of them, but they are lit, and I will leave it go until bat's 1 and 2 are no longer going up, and until bat 3 is dead again. Might take some time to drain bat 3 with such a small load, but I will test again once it is done

I look forward to seeing what happens when you split the negatives, sounds like an interesting couple of tests you have in front of you
I will keep testing and updating as I have more info

N8
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:09 AM
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Neight

Glad that the post helped. I should start trying smaller loads on battery 3 also.
I have a lot of 12v computer fans and should be using leds also. The reason
for smaller loads is that I go from one 12v fan then try a 12v ceramic heater
and this usually kills the process very fast. Instead I should be trying to extend each run longer. I also have noticed that battery 2 has dropped a bit also. All
in all, we do have free energy happening here and it is very fascinating. Hope
more members try this so more information comes out with different variations,
as you have done Neight. That way we will all find out what works best.


George
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:34 PM
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FRC,
I think you will find that the more sulfated your battery is, the longer the runs you can get before you drop out of the power window. That has been my experience so far. My original battery ran mine for more than a month, and I was running HEAVY loads on an inverter.

In case you didn't catch my edit in one of the posts above...

These ARE PM motors we are using. The ones with the wound rotors and stators were for the motor modifications Dr. Lindemann was talking about in his thread. I don't know what I was thinking. I must be getting senile!
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Last edited by Turion; 02-21-2012 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Neight,
All the motors that Luther and I have used so far have been wound rotor and wound stator 12 volt DC. No PM (permanent magnet) motors. They may work, but I don't know for sure.

David
Hi Guys,

Actually, the CIM motor I'm using and the Pacific Scientific motor are both permanent magnet DC motors with brushes and commutator. My next test setup will be with 2 of these 2.5HP PacSci motors nose coupled together.

I'll drive lights off the second motor to create the mechanical load on the first motor... I may even try a dimmer switch of some kind to tweak the adjustment to keep battery 3 in range for the inverter... What would be really interesting is if we can route some of the generated power from the second motor back to batteries 1 & 2...

I also want to take a moment to thank John Bedini for this circuit and for generously releasing it on his pages. This is where I first became aware of this circuit and became reaquainted with it when David first appeared on Peswiki... This is an awesome circuit with many possibilities!

Great posts guys!

Luther
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