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  #2641  
Old 08-09-2013, 10:23 PM
shylo shylo is offline
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Hi Dave , my batteries are just regular car type ,they have removable caps that allow you to top them up, I always use bottled water.
I try all schematics that are here ,and some of my own.
All show the same thing ,charging at some points ,and dis-charging at others.
I've wound motors ,some work better than others.
The best run I've had was with collector brushes feeding the load.
Brushes are the key ,the on off situation, when the meter spikes is what we need to catch, I have had some success with transformers. But what you collect is less than what is put out , so far.
If I ever come up with something you will All be the first to know.
artv
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  #2642  
Old 08-09-2013, 11:02 PM
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Turion Turion is offline
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shylo,
Thanks for that information. That's another strike against lead acid batteries. I am running tests with regular lead acid batteries right now, and am NOT seeing the same results I am seeing in a side-by-side run with AGM's. On both setups I have a stock off the shelf Razor scooter motor running a second razor scooter motor as a generator. On the lead acid batteries I get some good runs, but then begin to lose slowly on the primaries. On the AGM batteries the primaries drop a tiny bit, hold level, but then bounce back when I let the system rest and actually show a gain in voltage. So I am beginning to believe the AGM batteries DO make a significant difference. I would say more testing needs to be done, and I will continue to do runs.

Probably the first of next week I will start runs with AGM's in place of the transducers to see if the primaries can be lead acid. And finally will run AGM's as the primaries with lead acid as the transducers. I want results from all the possible combinations. But we need other people trying the SAME THING to see what results they are getting.

What we need is a standard bench setup that everyone is running where we can ALL substitute a variable and see what effect it has on our output. Right now everyone is all over the map....different motors, different batteries, different loads and on and on. We don't have a systematic scientific investigation here, we have a bunch of crap data we are throwing at the wall and hoping some of it sticks where we want it to in order to support our theory of the day. When it doesn't, we change theories like underwear. We need solid consistent data from a whole bunch of people. That was the purpose in bringing this out in the open in the first place. I already knew Matt and Carroll and Duncan and Luther. The five of us could have kept this all to ourselves and worked on it in silence. We didn't. We put it out there in hopes that we could get a BUNCH of folks trying this with the SAME equipment,the SAME schematic, and reporting the results.

But it doesn't look like that is ever going to happen. And when folks DO report in, we don't know anything about what kind of motor they are using or what kind or size of batteries. I have been trying to keep some kind of a record of what people are experiencing, but everyone is all over the map and it's crazy.

But that isn't going to stop me from trying.

Dave
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  #2643  
Old 08-09-2013, 11:31 PM
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Careful

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
shylo,
Probably the first of next week I will start runs with AGM's in place of the transducers to see if the primaries can be lead acid.
Dave
Dave,
I did this early on with the modified 3BGS. Let me further define that. I used good AGM as transducers with the positives connected. I had the tops cut open to try and get wave forms off individual cells in the transducers. The battery/tranducer closest to the motor boiled like crazy spitting acid all over. The battery was ruined after the run. I would guess that had the top not been open, the caps would have blown off or worse.

All my runs are now with AGMs. I have never seen anything special with the FLABs. They can be used in the buffer position with success as long as the others are AGM. That has been my results.
Good Luck,
Randy
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  #2644  
Old 08-09-2013, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
Dave,
I used good AGM as transducers with the positives connected.
Do you mean you used FLA's as the Transducers and had that problem and NOW only use AGM'S????? I am a little confused.

My usual state.

Dave
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  #2645  
Old 08-10-2013, 12:05 AM
CrystalDipoleMatrix CrystalDipoleMatrix is offline
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AGM battery

We need to further explore the chemistery involving AGM batteries. They have a boron-silicate fiber sheet mixed with diluted sulfuric acid between the electrodes. Something is happening in there because they last longer and are toughter than the others SLA's. We know that almost every metals and some elements reacts with sulfuric acid. When they sulfate and with very high heat involved in the abusive charging, maybe there is a chemical diode formation inside the battery. Too complicated for me but really interesting. I think they can be radiant conditionned better than the other types of lab's. I'm sure bedini and callanan used AGM's without knowing what's really happened in the battery chemistery or did'nt they? Very, Very interesting discovery guy's. Really.
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  #2646  
Old 08-10-2013, 02:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Do you mean you used FLA's as the Transducers and had that problem and NOW only use AGM'S????? I am a little confused.

My usual state.

Dave
No Dave, I used good, non-sulfated AGMs for the transducers to see if just having the positives connected was enough to get charging on the primaries. It was not and ruined one of the AGM batteries. I have also tried various experiments with FLABs in the primary position and bad battery position and did not get charging on the primaries. I have never tried 2 bad FLABs as transducers. I was just saying I have given up on the FLABs and use AGMs only, for my experimentation with the exception of using a FLAB I have for the buffer position with good luck. Sorry I wasn't clear. I get in a hurry sometimes.
Randy
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  #2647  
Old 08-10-2013, 04:01 AM
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Randy,
No problem. I am just being picky because I want as much data as possible.

Since Matt has figured out how to make a "bad" battery, I am thinking about taking one of my bad AGM's (which is sitting at .07 volts) and pulsing it with a power supply for a long period of time, say a few days or a week, to see what the long term effects might be on the battery when you hit the pos with neg and the neg with pos.

Dave
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  #2648  
Old 08-10-2013, 12:49 PM
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Dave,

I agree that we have to be scientific and precise about specifying what we use and how we use it, else it's like finding the famous needle....

I would like to know something. When you recharge your primaries do you do it with inductive or capacitive pulses?
When you start a run on the 3BGS do you start with fully charged batteries? What voltage, loaded or unloaded?
When you start the voltage drops and then pretty much stays constant (in the good runs), or even goes up, correct?

We should also specify the size of our batts and how many watts power we run from the system.

Mario
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Last edited by Mario; 08-10-2013 at 12:56 PM.
  #2649  
Old 08-10-2013, 06:32 PM
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Mario,
Things have changed with the introduction of this new circuit by Randy, so I will divide my answer into two parts to make sure I am clear.

Original 3BGS
I woud use a standard battery charger which I am pretty sure is a pulse charger. It is up at my property right now which is two hours away, so I won't be able to look for a couple weeks until I go up there, but I am pretty sure it is a capacitive pulse charger.

I would charge the batteries until the charger shut off, so the charged voltage varied based on the condition of the batteries. Usually it was somewhere between 12.5 -13.2 volts. I would begin my runs with a load of some kind on the motor, usually just running another motor as a generator shaft coupled together. I would always have a 7 watt bulb on the inverter attached to battery 3.

Depending on the bad battery, there are different things that happen during a "good" run.
1. The primaries drop just a little and hold steady during the run. When the run is over they return to where you started or a couple 100ths above where you started.
2. In some instances I have had the primaries begin to instantly climb in voltage as much as four or five volts, which I ended by increasing loads on battery 3 to level it out.
3. I have also had the primaries just hold at whatever voltage they were at when I started through the entire run.

In ALL these cases I was using 18.5 amp hour AGM batteries.

As far as output power from the system, that has been varied, and you are correct in that we need to accurately measure what is produced. I have all my notes, but my suggestion is that since the original 3BGS is a hit or miss proposition as to whether you can get it running and KEEP it running, we need to start over with the new modified circuit that WORKS consistently.

Modified 3BGS with five batteries

I charge my batteries with a capacitive pulse charger prior to runs. Again, the voltage on the batteries depends on the condition of the batteries. Mine are old, so they are usually between 12.5- 13.2 volts

I ALWAYS have a load on the motor...usually running a second motor as generator shaft coupled.

I always have a 7 watt bulb on the inverter attached to battery 3 to begin with.

I have not been measuring how long the bulbs run or how much power is used. I have a Kilowatt meter I can do that with.

As I said before...it is time to get scientific, so I am putting together a spread sheet of all the information I want to collect on each run, and will post it here in case others are interested in getting scientific also.

Dave
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  #2650  
Old 08-10-2013, 06:42 PM
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Hi Dave,

thanks for the info. I didn't mean that we need to know the exact power drawn down to the milliwatt, although it helps being specific. I meant more like how much power is drawn with respect to the primary batteries size, so that one knows more or less if he's in the ball park or not and what loads to start with depending on his battery size.

Mario
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  #2651  
Old 08-10-2013, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
.it is time to get scientific, so I am putting together a spread sheet of all the information I want to collect on each run, and will post it here in case others are interested in getting scientific also.

Dave
Now your talking
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  #2652  
Old 08-10-2013, 10:57 PM
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Mario,
In order to get my system to tune with a 25 watt 12 volt bulb connected to the output of the 12 volt motor through a full wave bridge, I have been running 18 1/2 watts worth of bulbs off the inverter as a load. It has been my experience that if you increase the load on the motor you MUST increase the load on the inverter in order to maintain the voltage in the buffer battery. If you aren't in balance that voltage in the buffer battery will either rise or fall, and neither one is good. You want it to maintain level. But as long as you DO maintain that balance, you can increase the loads to the LIMIT of the motor OR the inverter. The more you put on one, the more you MUST put on the other to maintain a balance. That balance is ESSENTIAL or the buffer battery voltage will climb too high or drop too low and the primaries will start to discharge. And the longer it takes to get the system INTO balance, the more one of your transducers is going to start climbing in voltage and when IT gets too high, the thing quits working. So start with small loads, record what you need to balance, and then the next run you do, you can START from there and work your way up until you can put on a big load and instantly balance it because you know what load is needed to balance the system. Then you are ready to do some long runs under heavy load.

Yes, this means lot of runs where you get the system in balance, recored the data, and then waste the rest of your day recharging the primaries and draining and reversing polarity in the two transducer batteries, which is a BIG pain in the butt, but there are really NO shortcuts here.

Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 08-11-2013 at 12:52 AM.
  #2653  
Old 08-11-2013, 01:00 AM
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What he said

I would add; Whatever electric load you have on your buffer battery is running through your motor. This is why it is important to use a motor that can take the current. We have used the 24v, Scooter motor with good success. The windings and brushes can take the added loads of our tests.
Good Luck,
Randy
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  #2654  
Old 08-11-2013, 01:37 AM
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So it just kinda popped into my head and I may try it tomorrow. Has anybody just skipped the motor...

Just hook the system up minus the motor and use the inverter to keep the buffer battery from going up or down.

It can't be hard. The impedance of the transducer batts and the buffer battery is going to limit the current. So you could put an amp meter in there and at that point you should be able to see what the amp draw would be. That would give you a reasonable idea of what the inverter load should be to keep the balance. It might be 2 times the amp reading but it ought to scale at some point.

Just though if anybody had I would like to here the results.

I am going to try it. I am setting everything up this evening in the house to I can work in room temperature.

Cheers
Matt
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  #2655  
Old 08-11-2013, 03:00 AM
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Haven't tried that. Never even thought of it. Always assumed I had to have the motor, but since the inverter is pulling a load, you have current draw.

Dave
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  #2656  
Old 08-11-2013, 11:11 AM
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Matt,

but if you skip the motor it's like putting 24V directly on the inverter on the inverter... which should blow pretty quickly!? And even if you put such huge load to keep the inverter at 12V it's like trying to force the primaries to stay at 12 instead of 24V, that kind of current draw should ruin them quite fast as well.
Maybe I misunderstood what you mean. Or did you mean just pulse with a fet at a low duty cycle to limit current instead of a motor?

Mario
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  #2657  
Old 08-11-2013, 11:17 AM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Nope no switch.

The current is only going to flow so fast. the buffer is 12 volt+. My inverter just shuts down at higher that 15.8. Its even got kickout relay to keep from blowing.

We'll see

Matt
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  #2658  
Old 08-11-2013, 11:40 AM
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Matt, I'm a bit skeptical on this one but I'm also open wish you luck

Mario
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  #2659  
Old 08-11-2013, 12:00 PM
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Hey Matt,

I have to agree with Mario on this. I think at the very least you will boil the buffer battery and drain the primaries quickly. There is nothing to prevent a very large current flow from the primaries to the buffer battery except the impedance of the buffer battery and the internal resistance of the primary batteries. I think you said you were moving everything inside to work where it is cooler. I hope you try this outside first.

Later, Carroll
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  #2660  
Old 08-11-2013, 01:16 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Ya'll are right. I couldn't get a big enough load on the inverter.

Thats alright we'll add some switching see what happens.


Matt
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  #2661  
Old 08-11-2013, 07:43 PM
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Igor ... nearly looped

You recall I asked Igor to look at this system, see if he could balance at higher power … regarding what I wrote regarding “wave shaped” inverters in my last post and the importance of what's “under the arc” he has obviously come to the same conclusion … it must be true sine … so he hasn't looped it yet but very close for your consideration

IT (induction transformer) - "synchronizer" II - YouTube

of course no one will really believe until he's looped,balanced, and run two or three times the A/Hr..rating of the battery, but it looks like he's on his way. Although we only see a very short run time. He's just showing progress
I am meanwhile trying various heterodyne combinations … which is what Igor will effectively be doing with a harmonically operating inverter.
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  #2662  
Old 08-12-2013, 11:13 PM
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Some disinfo for ya...

So I really didn't wanna follow up after Mr. Accusation. But what the hell can't keep it to myself forever and alot of people out there are at least reading even if they are not testing.

I have noticed a trend while making some simple runs with the motor and the last circuit posted. The word right now in BALANCE. Balance the Buffer battery so it is not charging or discharging. And that worked a little.
What I have been doing is putting the battery into charge state. I load the motor down so the buffer battery is at or slightly above 14.2.
This so far has keeped the buffer battery charged real well. Resting at 13.4 now.
Also I have seen small gains in the primaries .05v +-. All the while pulling load of between 7 - 13 watt from the inverter for the entire run.

What usually happens is I load the motor down and watch the buffer rise and I make sure it does not go over 14.5. It usually finds a resting point and I leave it there.

I am going to switch up soon here to the inductors and scrap the motor. I am going to run the "SQUARE WAVE" pulse that emulates the motor and see if all is well with the above pattern.

If that the case It would lead to a completely different theory that any of the long pages of theory you have read before.

But we'll get to that at another time.

So if anybody is geared up out there please give it run. At minimum shoot me a PM and let me know if you have experienced results. OR POST.

We need to hear from people.

Cheers
Matt
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  #2663  
Old 08-13-2013, 12:13 AM
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Forgot To Ask

When we talked about this on the phone today, I forgot to ask what is going on with the voltages on your transducers during this setup? Thought I would ask here so you don't have to keep repeating yourself! LOL

I will get on this first thing in the morning and make some runs, even if my transducers have not been negatively pulsed as well as they should since I am going to be doing it manually. (Neither of my STAMPS will work) and my Audrino hasn't arrived yet.

More than anything I want to do an extended run so we can prove once and for all that we are pulling more out of this dang thing than is possible with those two primary batteries.

I am meeting with "the Electrical Engineer" on the 23rd to show him what we have, and I really don't want to look like an idiot. Well....at least not any MORE of an idiot.

Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 08-13-2013 at 04:52 AM.
  #2664  
Old 08-13-2013, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
When we talked about this on the phone today, I forgot to ask what is going on with the voltages on your transducers during this setup? Thought I would ask here so you don't have to keep repeating yourself! LOL...............

Dave
They are just hanging around 0. Maybe up to 150 millivolt. The charging backward seems to have knocked the tendency for them to recharge right out of them so if anything they may be good to go.

But like I said I am not sure they are even needed at this point. Thats another day though. Testing will tell us.

@ Randy can you try the above test and see what you get out of it. Loading the buffer battery.

Thanks
Matt
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  #2665  
Old 08-13-2013, 01:20 AM
CrystalDipoleMatrix CrystalDipoleMatrix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
So I really didn't wanna follow up after Mr. Accusation. But what the hell can't keep it to myself forever and alot of people out there are at least reading even if they are not testing.

I have noticed a trend while making some simple runs with the motor and the last circuit posted. The word right now in BALANCE. Balance the Buffer battery so it is not charging or discharging. And that worked a little.
What I have been doing is putting the battery into charge state. I load the motor down so the buffer battery is at or slightly above 14.2.
This so far has keeped the buffer battery charged real well. Resting at 13.4 now.
Also I have seen small gains in the primaries .05v +-. All the while pulling load of between 7 - 13 watt from the inverter for the entire run.

What usually happens is I load the motor down and watch the buffer rise and I make sure it does not go over 14.5. It usually finds a resting point and I leave it there.

I am going to switch up soon here to the inductors and scrap the motor. I am going to run the "SQUARE WAVE" pulse that emulates the motor and see if all is well with the above pattern.

If that the case It would lead to a completely different theory that any of the long pages of theory you have read before.

But we'll get to that at another time.

So if anybody is geared up out there please give it run. At minimum shoot me a PM and let me know if you have experienced results. OR POST.

We need to hear from people.

Cheers
Matt
So do you consider the use of a PWM then? Cause you can play with frequency and pulse width. The inductors will creates the desired harmonics I guess. The transducers are very, very important. The more in series the better if used with a PWM setup. I think Stanley water fuel cell, but with dead batt instead of the water capacitor and a big load in parallel instead of hydrogen generation.
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  #2666  
Old 08-13-2013, 01:53 AM
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As politely as I can...
That would be nice to believe if you had the results to prove it. But unless you have tested it how do you know? Stories?

Not me. If it does or doesn't work that way then you know one way or the other if you try.

Matt
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  #2667  
Old 08-13-2013, 02:57 AM
CrystalDipoleMatrix CrystalDipoleMatrix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
As politely as I can...
That would be nice to believe if you had the results to prove it. But unless you have tested it how do you know? Stories?

Not me. If it does or doesn't work that way then you know one way or the other if you try.

Matt
I've built the ravi's water fuel cell back in 2009. I've done the conditioning process. I saw the formation of bigger bubbles and more production over time. No heat with 12v, 1 amp square pulsed. Yes, the bifilar cores do produce more gas output. I saw it. But my main problem was my stainless tubes. Too much space between the electrodes and I was using 304 instead of 316L grade stainless. I used tap water only. Hey buddy! I just asked you a simple question. No need to be arrogant with me. I came here to see things that I can replicate. Things that WORKS. I'm a follower. Currently, I have no money to built things so I just try to help here. I have no need to prove anything. I believe in you guys. You can do it. John Bedini have always said that the PWM was the key. Energy from the vacuum episode 5. I will add that without a doubt I will tell you that your ''dead battery'' system act like a crystal battery in a ''dry state''. Marcus Reid crystal converter. To open up the void into the crystal matrix, all you need is a trigger signal with high voltage, low amps and low frequency at the right space and time. All the TRUE suppressed inventors had this little magic trick in common: Batteries. You change the battery, it does'nt work anymore. Why? Creating a resonnance effect (LC circuit) with a motor is a ''hit or miss'' thing. I think that with a PWM, it will work every time. It's very cheap to built and you can control all kind of things. And last thing: Why bothering with one or two dead (crystal) batteries?? You want an asymetrical system. Low voltage imput, high voltage output. Crystal batteries in series on the output side of the system. That way, they will never take a charge but creating a better dipole effect. I just don't know what to say after this. THIS IS THE REAL **** ! Just a theory ? Fiction ? I don't think so. Only time will tell. Happy experimenting. ------All you saw in your successful experiments was in FACT: God. The light. ------ Do you believe in god? If you don't, stop experimenting with free energy. It's all him. Amen.
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  #2668  
Old 08-13-2013, 03:40 AM
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You guys asked and answered my questions before I could even post, so I'll shut up

Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 08-13-2013 at 03:42 AM.
  #2669  
Old 08-13-2013, 04:14 AM
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Well, I actually posted, but by the time I did my questions had been asked and answered, so I would have deleted the post, but you can't, so I just edited my questions out and posted the minimum. I was just asking if you were making your statements because you had built the circuit with the batteries and seen it work, but Matt basically asked the same thing and you explained yourself to him. So my question and answer were already there while I was still typing my question. I'm just really slow.

Dave
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  #2670  
Old 08-13-2013, 07:16 AM
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And god would say, love one another unconditionally, as that is the solution to all perceived problems.
peace love light
tyson
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