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  #2431  
Old 08-03-2013, 03:00 AM
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LutherG LutherG is offline
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Flooded Lead Acid

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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Thanks Carroll,

So nobody is running SLA's yet or FLA's that we know of and getting any good results?? Oops! Well, I will be giving it a go too. Hope I have better results than Matt did.

Dave
Dave,

My third battery is a flooded lead acid battery... The primaries are sealed lead acid... On my bigger setup I'll be using AGM batteries...

Cheers,

Luther
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  #2432  
Old 08-03-2013, 03:47 AM
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Luther,
I know that's what you were running with the original 3BGS, and it worked, but now we need to see if it works with the new schematic. Good Luck.

Dave
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  #2433  
Old 08-03-2013, 06:34 AM
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any one for the seesaw

Please believe me it is extremely difficult for me to write these exposure posts .particularly as I may be wrong, but I think not And also understand that this is a very basic battle between good and evil at the very base of existence, It is how Leon Haten viewed these very same forces and although I am not a particularly religious man myself I think I know the difference betwixt good and evil, What I advise you here is to be very careful with the knowledge I impart if you try to amplify it and then keep it “secret” it will do you and yours immeasurable harm for perhaps an eternity I know not the ways of the creator or comprehend the machinations of the universe I do know without doubt that it is at its heart benign to we frail humans and a great force of evil is trying to retain a god given benefit for profit and Evil purpose.
This benign state is however vengeful of whispering and secrecy, Only truth, honesty, and open communication will reveal each and every component and its operation. I believe I can see each and every component part of this function I cannot however engineer the last piece . I cannot comprehend the versa mathematics of EPD.(does anyone except EPD)? just fancy he hated computers with such a vengeance he would never even write an email .. now he's doing webinar's .. who would have thought it ? how Quaint.
I also seem at a total loss when It comes to trying to explain these things to you good people. Trust me its not for the lack of trying . The magnetic effect I showed , the electrostatic effect the bridge I have explained, the phase reversal harmonic and overtone relationship I have demonstrated … at each revaluation you seem quite determined to grasp the tiny part of the concept which I show you and then fly off in some obscure flight of fancy. I find it excruciating, even though I do it myself.
Even the things that are effectively done and dusted and long ago put to bed rear their ugly heads again .
As Tesla says you must view the whole circuit …. you all seem quite incapable of doing that simple thing .. It seems rather like watching headless chickens and wondering which can run fastest.
So perhaps Its my miserable scribble that lacks, … let me try yet again , bit by bit
Jean the PWM you mention has merit , and make no mistake the water fracture system works , It was founded on sound mathematical principles that of very pure sine waves interacting (heterodyne) at a x6 frequency separation it was and is exactly the inverse of what is being done here . A PWM or a function generator is of no use in this situation , It is a total and equal reversal of current in as short a time as possible that is required, it separates the harmonics and the overtones Its well known science .. Its in all quarts crystal theory … I've just demonstrated it .. not the splitting of them because I obviously can't do that with a function generator but the fact that they are so. This is very different to electricity in one dimension and four quadrants where Sine and Cosine rule the day.
Edward Leedskalnin tells us electricity is in two half's quarts crystal oscillators can be made to favour harmonic or overtone progression and prove it …. Its what is at the heart of this machine It is the motors job to create the overtone and harmonic separation, It is not perfect , but that’s what it does V= Eb – (Ia Ra) as Ra is tiny V and Eb are almost identical . So please remove from your thinking PWM sine wave or square wave generators function generators .. what is required is a total reversal of current in the fastest time possible … what some call mistakenly “a scalar” that they should all be the same size is taken as read.
The whole machine is working as a push pull oscillator . Which is why I kept stressing to balance the bridge at all costs .
I don’t know the engineering of the other side .. that is why , no body does in this day and age the science of the linear wave has been buried for over 130 years along with a lot of well meaning honest people we must walk respectfully among the graves of these good people .
Imagine for a moment your machine is an enclosed water turbine at the end of a pipe .. in order for the turbine to spin and deliver maximum power the inlet pipe must be the right size and unrestricted .
Resonant if you will ….. the outlet arrangement must also be able to convey the same volume of water away from the turbine .. that then is then also be resonant . This then is the two sides of the Bridge
if either is lacking the system fails .
It is perhaps not the best analogy because of course the 3BGS is actually akin to a pendulum system it sits in the centre, It transmits and receives but like the turbine a restriction on either end will compromise the whole system. It is pointless to simply put more weight on one side of a see saw.
Tesla famously drove his pierce Arrow around in the company of his Nephew, there is quite a good description of the event I'm sure most of you have read it, Knowing what we do now It would be outrageous to consider he was using anything but the same Telluric currents and plasma oscillation about the battery that we are.
The description tells us the Teslamobile had the wonderful accessory of a six foot pole sticking out of the back how nice …. why ? Of course he could receive telluric current but in order to do so he had to also transmit …. Its the other half of the bridge and unavoidable . Its six foot to match the wave length. He had a much faster oscillator than us.
You operate 3BGS some of you know to your cost … you blast a signal out all over the place, its untuned and crude but never the less it has to be there.
Antenna theory is quite complex in its own right , commercial equipment is made with an impedance match of 50 ohms , the impedance match to ground is then to all intense and purposes zero.
It has been engineered to be so in order to prevent Radio hams and engineers contemplating the balance we now consider ,give them a taste of free energy & they would give it chase just like we are doing, The 50 ohms is quite arbitrary … it is an engineering impedance matching operation.
The transmission side of the bridge is “relatively” easy to understand … we know the transverse wave … we know what happens when its tuned resonant into an antenna ( which happens to be bad batteries) It transmits …. well it certainly does that, Classic theory tells us the resonant harmonic wave propagates the electromagnetic wave with some small electrostatic content.
The thing is boys and girls you are also receiving the overtone … linear wave …. you do not have the 50 ohm limitation installed by RCA and David Sarnoff in order the obfuscate “free energy”
There are things I can suggest that will probably improve matters … one alas is dump the cherished motor I believe it is transmitting the transverse wave into the “bad batteries” putting two batteries there has produced a di-pole its improved things . I don't know anything like as much as I would like to about antenna theory, but in basic terms the higher the frequency the smaller the antenna needs to be . A wire antenna in the low Khz range as our motors are could be in the order of miles long.
So IMHO we need to get solid state or even thermionic in order to get into high frequencies.
The impedance match of a very simple transmitter needs altering away from stupid 50ohms
and then perhaps we can balance …. The transmitted transverse wave (which we know about) and the received telluric wave (which we know next to nothing about) both have an electrostatic and magnetic content …. by trial and error we may match one side of the pipe to the other but it would be so very much easier if we could engineer it so. We are of course trying to bring about a totally “open system” although it may not seem like it to you …. nature seems to work at a phenominal frequency.
She'll rush in the front door …. rattle your battery with her wand .. then rush out the back door
then she'll repeat the operation in reverse like a child happily at play obstruct either door and you will not have a visitor .
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  #2434  
Old 08-03-2013, 07:23 AM
CrystalDipoleMatrix CrystalDipoleMatrix is offline
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WoW man! What a post! I will forget about the PWM then and focus on the bad battery and the motor. As simple as that. Thanks duncan.
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  #2435  
Old 08-03-2013, 09:51 AM
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March ever onwards

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Originally Posted by CrystalDipoleMatrix View Post
WoW man! What a post! I will forget about the PWM then and focus on the bad battery and the motor. As simple as that. Thanks duncan.
Not necessary so Jean … a centre tapped transformer connected to a Function generator can supply “anti phase” so might an H bridge be considered , and I guess in that configuration the WFC circuit could do service … I did manage to fracture water for very little energy expenditure but had not the least idea how to use that peculiar gas as fuel . Never the less at its heart its a complex inversion of what we do here so let me explain as briefly as I may. It at least uses a lot more Known science . Start here Jean at this frequency chart

Definition of EMF, ELF, VHF, UHF, RF, electromagnetic field, frequency & wavelengths

you will see at EHF and frequencies above molecular spin occurs . Normally when you introduce frequencies into a substance like water they quickly interfere with each other in time and space, they bump into each other for want of a better description, they waste energy … they never reach High frequency … they become chaos . Of the work done on frequencies Fourier is the man most are aware of given two frequencies say F1 and F2 mixing them (heterodyne) would result in F1 and F2 and F1 + F2 and F1 - F2 and then of course the whole thing starts again with the resultants .. it obviously quickly becomes a total chaos … It is not possible to create an absolutely perfect sine wave never mind two, Its also difficult to make them track each other but if you do get very close and you introduce two frequencies that are X6 apart … something amazing happens … they can
heterodyne again and again and yet not invade each others time or space . It is the only frequency set I know of that will do that . The result is dislocation of water with minute amounts of energy .
To get nearer this perfect state is the ambition of the WFC guys .
That x6 on the other hand rather than being he start of our trip is the end .. its the tuned point we are using the overtones .. we are following Tesla's sequence cumulative on 6 that is 3. 5,6,7,9 or the majors … if people knew the magnificence of … 3 and 6 and 9 , Jean whilst I may have sounded a little curt Its probably more frustration with myself you see I have had an operation on my eyes and I can't see well enough to experiment and operate as I once could , Its not that I can't I must use aids and watchmakers glasses .. its all most frustrating . Still I really didn't mean to be so casual with batteries and motors they have shown many on this thread alone that huge amounts of free power is available . In that regard they have done and continue to do a huge all most incalculable job .. they have taken the mind block away … all these people have had the blinkers removed … there is no price I can put on that.
To try and make it better, more stable , that’s a different matter we all aspire .. of course concentrate on the motor and the bad batteries …. Its been done many times and the folks here will do all they can to make sure you see it happen …. when you have, and it leaves no room for doubt! then I'm sure you'll be trying to uncover all the other secrets … just as we are doing.
It seems I write one thing and preach another but it seems that you just can't operate properly until you know with out doubt the effect is true .. the easiest way to do that is to use the batteries and the motor, when you have seen that nothing will stop you anyway. These are not silly people Jean (except perhaps for myself) they know what they have seen … they know what an amp and a volt is
there are BSc and engineers here amongst our ranks … It really isn’t a case of does it or doesn’t it, it is can we make this better …. In the mean time more people going hands on seeing it and having the “mind block” removed .. well I don't know about the rest .. but if anything I find that if anything more exciting than clawing forward uncovering the theory. Look at a.king now obsessed … like a terrier that’s found a rabbit hole !
Its also easy to get disheartened Jean when It just doesn't work .. The history of this system shows David totally despaired of it himself at one time …. it stopped working whatever he did he could not re- produce the effect, eventually David convinced himself “perhaps it didn't really happen” the project was abandoned, some where however in a shed or garage months later some one else was reading about it , That some one who was trying it was Luther … Luther contacted David and said “David this contraption of yours is working” That of course inspired David to try yet again .. he eventually got another system working … others aware of David's system Matt myself and others tried it … found it works . The more who find it works the better .. The snow ball is getting bigger and gaining momentum, each and every one who tries this machine and is a little persistent sees the effect . Each person who sees the effect is a convert , each convert becomes a rabid campaigner
each campaigner tries to improve and understand the workings of the machine .. so we advance , I think we are very strong now … nothing to stop this snowball now soon the Avalanche ! Do you think the new converts like a.king are going to stop now ? .. I think not . What about we old campaigners ? I'm afraid not …. we are here for the duration .. you too I hope Jean
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  #2436  
Old 08-03-2013, 12:43 PM
erfinder erfinder is offline
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Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
Please believe me it is extremely difficult for me to write these exposure posts .particularly as I may be wrong, but I think not And also understand that this is a very basic battle between good and evil at the very base of existence, It is how Leon Haten viewed these very same forces and although I am not a particularly religious man myself I think I know the difference betwixt good and evil, What I advise you here is to be very careful with the knowledge I impart if you try to amplify it and then keep it “secret” it will do you and yours immeasurable harm for perhaps an eternity I know not the ways of the creator or comprehend the machinations of the universe I do know without doubt that it is at its heart benign to we frail humans and a great force of evil is trying to retain a god given benefit for profit and Evil purpose.
This benign state is however vengeful of whispering and secrecy, Only truth, honesty, and open communication will reveal each and every component and its operation. I believe I can see each and every component part of this function I cannot however engineer the last piece . I cannot comprehend the versa mathematics of EPD.(does anyone except EPD)? just fancy he hated computers with such a vengeance he would never even write an email .. now he's doing webinar's .. who would have thought it ? how Quaint.
I also seem at a total loss when It comes to trying to explain these things to you good people. Trust me its not for the lack of trying . The magnetic effect I showed , the electrostatic effect the bridge I have explained, the phase reversal harmonic and overtone relationship I have demonstrated … at each revaluation you seem quite determined to grasp the tiny part of the concept which I show you and then fly off in some obscure flight of fancy. I find it excruciating, even though I do it myself.
Even the things that are effectively done and dusted and long ago put to bed rear their ugly heads again .
As Tesla says you must view the whole circuit …. you all seem quite incapable of doing that simple thing .. It seems rather like watching headless chickens and wondering which can run fastest.
So perhaps Its my miserable scribble that lacks, … let me try yet again , bit by bit
Jean the PWM you mention has merit , and make no mistake the water fracture system works , It was founded on sound mathematical principles that of very pure sine waves interacting (heterodyne) at a x6 frequency separation it was and is exactly the inverse of what is being done here . A PWM or a function generator is of no use in this situation , It is a total and equal reversal of current in as short a time as possible that is required, it separates the harmonics and the overtones Its well known science .. Its in all quarts crystal theory … I've just demonstrated it .. not the splitting of them because I obviously can't do that with a function generator but the fact that they are so. This is very different to electricity in one dimension and four quadrants where Sine and Cosine rule the day.
Edward Leedskalnin tells us electricity is in two half's quarts crystal oscillators can be made to favour harmonic or overtone progression and prove it …. Its what is at the heart of this machine It is the motors job to create the overtone and harmonic separation, It is not perfect , but that’s what it does V= Eb – (Ia Ra) as Ra is tiny V and Eb are almost identical . So please remove from your thinking PWM sine wave or square wave generators function generators .. what is required is a total reversal of current in the fastest time possible … what some call mistakenly “a scalar” that they should all be the same size is taken as read.
The whole machine is working as a push pull oscillator . Which is why I kept stressing to balance the bridge at all costs .
I don’t know the engineering of the other side .. that is why , no body does in this day and age the science of the linear wave has been buried for over 130 years along with a lot of well meaning honest people we must walk respectfully among the graves of these good people .
Imagine for a moment your machine is an enclosed water turbine at the end of a pipe .. in order for the turbine to spin and deliver maximum power the inlet pipe must be the right size and unrestricted .
Resonant if you will ….. the outlet arrangement must also be able to convey the same volume of water away from the turbine .. that then is then also be resonant . This then is the two sides of the Bridge
if either is lacking the system fails .
It is perhaps not the best analogy because of course the 3BGS is actually akin to a pendulum system it sits in the centre, It transmits and receives but like the turbine a restriction on either end will compromise the whole system. It is pointless to simply put more weight on one side of a see saw.
Tesla famously drove his pierce Arrow around in the company of his Nephew, there is quite a good description of the event I'm sure most of you have read it, Knowing what we do now It would be outrageous to consider he was using anything but the same Telluric currents and plasma oscillation about the battery that we are.
The description tells us the Teslamobile had the wonderful accessory of a six foot pole sticking out of the back how nice …. why ? Of course he could receive telluric current but in order to do so he had to also transmit …. Its the other half of the bridge and unavoidable . Its six foot to match the wave length. He had a much faster oscillator than us.
You operate 3BGS some of you know to your cost … you blast a signal out all over the place, its untuned and crude but never the less it has to be there.
Antenna theory is quite complex in its own right , commercial equipment is made with an impedance match of 50 ohms , the impedance match to ground is then to all intense and purposes zero.
It has been engineered to be so in order to prevent Radio hams and engineers contemplating the balance we now consider ,give them a taste of free energy & they would give it chase just like we are doing, The 50 ohms is quite arbitrary … it is an engineering impedance matching operation.
The transmission side of the bridge is “relatively” easy to understand … we know the transverse wave … we know what happens when its tuned resonant into an antenna ( which happens to be bad batteries) It transmits …. well it certainly does that, Classic theory tells us the resonant harmonic wave propagates the electromagnetic wave with some small electrostatic content.
The thing is boys and girls you are also receiving the overtone … linear wave …. you do not have the 50 ohm limitation installed by RCA and David Sarnoff in order the obfuscate “free energy”
There are things I can suggest that will probably improve matters … one alas is dump the cherished motor I believe it is transmitting the transverse wave into the “bad batteries” putting two batteries there has produced a di-pole its improved things . I don't know anything like as much as I would like to about antenna theory, but in basic terms the higher the frequency the smaller the antenna needs to be . A wire antenna in the low Khz range as our motors are could be in the order of miles long.
So IMHO we need to get solid state or even thermionic in order to get into high frequencies.
The impedance match of a very simple transmitter needs altering away from stupid 50ohms
and then perhaps we can balance …. The transmitted transverse wave (which we know about) and the received telluric wave (which we know next to nothing about) both have an electrostatic and magnetic content …. by trial and error we may match one side of the pipe to the other but it would be so very much easier if we could engineer it so. We are of course trying to bring about a totally “open system” although it may not seem like it to you …. nature seems to work at a phenominal frequency.
She'll rush in the front door …. rattle your battery with her wand .. then rush out the back door
then she'll repeat the operation in reverse like a child happily at play obstruct either door and you will not have a visitor .
I find it very difficult to agree with you regarding resonance and other related topics, however, in the same light I'm not in the position to disagree with you either...with that being said...I have a question for you...

I have a machine which charges its supply back without any special circuitry...all that has to be done is I remove the hall sensor so that the device is no longer being driven as a motor...when this is done, the motor sends what appears to me to be a current pulse back towards the supply. The most spectacular results I have obtained thus far with this mechanism was once when I drove the setup with 100v. The device was connected to the supply and ran for roughly 30 seconds, at the end of this time frame the hall sensor was removed and the buffer capacitor (capacitor paralleled with the supply) shot up to 250v! Now according to my poor calculations....disregarding what the device needs to get it to the proper speed where the anomaly takes place, I start with 100v in a 4700uF capacitor, roughly 23.5 joules were required to charge that cap to that potential..... When I stop pulsing after 30 seconds, the capacitor resting voltage is instantly increased to 250v....to charge that cap up to that voltage one would need 143.8 joules...the difference between starting and ending joule values is heart and soul of my question.

My question.....where is this 123,3 joules which ends up in my supply capacitor coming from?

I am not asking for you to tell me how my device works, I know how it works, I am asking for your opinion regarding where you "think" the power for charging the cap is coming from... I have come to the conclusion that for this cap to charge like it does (instant voltage rise! a massive current has to be flowing!) I believe the capacity of the coil is being modified owing to how my device is configured....I believe the capacity is somehow transitioning from a few nano-farads to a few thousand micro-farads. Inductance can be varied in many different ways, however no one discusses how capacitance of an coil can be varied....it is assumed that the capacitance of a coil is limited to the turns between wires...this in my opinion is bull****! But I'm not a competent authority so all I can offer is speculation....your opinion would be much appreciated...

Regards
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  #2437  
Old 08-03-2013, 02:05 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Thanks Carroll,

So nobody is running SLA's yet or FLA's that we know of and getting any good results?? Oops! Well, I will be giving it a go too. Hope I have better results than Matt did.

Dave
SLA's are generally AGM batteries. Unless you shake them and hear the fluid sloshing I would assume they are AGM's anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
A dc brushed motor creates a kinda multi-frequency, one sided, sine wave(not sure of the terminology). A bouncy DC. Now add sparks and you get very small wave forms mixed in......ect
Good Luck,
Randy
No your not looking at it correct. There is no multi frequency in the motor. Just ripple.
You cannot see the 0 volt point in it and give the impression that 2 things are going on at one time. Really all you are seeing is the current start to flow out of the inductor, the voltage rise then being abruptly cut off while at the same time you are looking at the next inductor rising in voltage as the current starts to flow. Your just looking at multiple inductors being charged at separate times but overlapping overall.
Then you may get small noise from the brush's introduced over all of it.

Your just causing a ripple.

The point I am trying to get with you guys is what part of that ripple is doing to work on the power that is needed?

You gotta come up with something better than a motor, to start finding that.
Without looking a those "Thick Theories" are just babble on a bulletin board.

Testing leads to the answer.

I won't bring it up anymore.

Matt
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  #2438  
Old 08-03-2013, 04:28 PM
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OrionLightShip OrionLightShip is offline
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Corrections

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Originally Posted by erfinder View Post
I find it very difficult to agree with you regarding resonance and other related topics, however, in the same light I'm not in the position to disagree with you either...
I made the mistake being asleep when I chose to first watch duncan's video and I made the assumption that trace 2 was the current and that he had shifted the sine and cosine back into phase somehow because of the battery. My hopes for a var to va conversion were unfounded it would seem.

I know that Tesla said you could add capacitance by shorting or shunting the top of the coil. It's in his colorado springs notes somewhere.

Also, is it possible that under the right conditions, for the wire to momentarily adopt the property of isotropic capacitance?

Seems unlikely I know, but that is one serious anomaly you have there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
The magnetic effect I showed , the electrostatic effect the bridge I have explained, the phase reversal harmonic and overtone relationship I have demonstrated … at each revaluation you seem quite determined to grasp the tiny part of the concept which I show you and then fly off in some obscure flight of fancy. I find it excruciating, even though I do it myself.

As Tesla says you must view the whole circuit …. you all seem quite incapable of doing that simple thing .. It seems rather like watching headless chickens and wondering which can run fastest.
I'm sorry Duncan but try as I may, I am not qualified to understand the meaning of "phase reversal harmonic and overtone relationship."

Perhaps you mean a standing wave caused by the reflection from high impedance? For instance, the kind of thing that would happen with a shorted coax line?

In any case, all I can see now is two separate voltage/current pairs in phase. They are as separate as ac on dc from what I can see.

If I could throw high voltage on a faraday disk and combine them, the game is over, but it doesn't work like that.

I would be only too happy to come to an understanding and my Skype is always open to you.

<<<you all seem quite incapable of doing that simple thing>>>

It isn't always quite that "simple", and perhaps even if the least qualified of us, meaning me, can look at the whole......it doesn't help because there is no real understanding of what is happening underneath.

As far as David and Randy posting my theory, this is the last place I would post an unproven theory. Not because of who I am, but what others can be.

I should have used my words better!

I did say they could do what ever they wanted with it.

If it helps their system then it belongs to everyone. If not, then it just reverts to being my stupid theory.

It isn't meant to throw lightning bolts. It is meant for small signal injection into batteries as also seen in a LaserSaber video about the joule ringer crossover possible kapanadze effects.

There were also videos by dragon or lenz and woopy jump about a kacher coil system and a copper plate next to a battery if my memory serves.

Also, Randy is using an earth ground and a bifilar coil in proximity to the transducer batteries. My idea is a mere extension of what has already been done.

What I believe Tesla was doing is my belief. I'm not asking anyone to believe anything. It's all in the literature if you look for it with an open mind.
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Old 08-03-2013, 04:59 PM
erfinder erfinder is offline
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I made the mistake being asleep when I chose to first watch duncan's video and I made the assumption that trace 2 was the current and that he had shifted the sine and cosine back into phase somehow because of the battery. My hopes for a var to va conversion were unfounded it would seem.

I know that Tesla said you could add capacitance by shorting or shunting the top of the coil. It's in his colorado springs notes somewhere.

Also, is it possible that under the right conditions, for the wire to momentarily adopt the property of isotropic capacitance?

Seems unlikely I know, but that is one serious anomaly you have there.
Hello OrionLightShip,

I haven't watched any of Duncan's videos, I probably should...Duncan can you please provide a link to your channel...

The effect is amazing...I mention it here because I believe its related....I strongly believe that the capacitance of my motor windings are being modified in some heretofore unknown way! I believe the cap is being charged with displacement current...how that's possible I don't know and can only speculate...and I won't do that here..I will say that this massive charging current doesn't produce the Lenz induced drag, ergo, my assuming that I am dealing with displacement current and not electronic current...When my motors are operating in the anomaly zone they generate pure square waves! The wave of the motor literally changes from a sine like wave into a perfect square wave....the wave is so clean it appears as if it was being generated by a signal generator.

I truly believe that this is related to the motor, and positive and or negative splitting aspect of the 3BGS....that's my only reason for posting this here...

Splitting the positive and negative reveals the self oscillating nature of the current(s)....

Regards
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Old 08-03-2013, 05:14 PM
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oddities

certainly beyond any understanding I have but I did send a pm
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  #2441  
Old 08-03-2013, 05:52 PM
CrystalDipoleMatrix CrystalDipoleMatrix is offline
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Forming a crystal battery for bad battery position

Hello, just wanted to know if somebody here has trying to build their own ''bad battery''. Thanks, Jean.
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Old 08-03-2013, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by OrionLightShip View Post
Perhaps you mean a standing wave caused by the reflection from high impedance? For instance, the kind of thing that would happen with a shorted coax line?

In any case, all I can see now is two separate voltage/current pairs in phase. They are as separate as ac on dc from what I can see.
The above is good! We are inputting DC and getting a pseudo AC out of the motor. Also guys, do NOT take the motor and what is happening for granted! By focusing on no loads or very small loads, the best part of this system remains unseen. I had hoped to illustrate this with my "smoking glove" video but I guess I did a piss-poor job of it.

The motor is indeed generating at the same time that its running! When you first connect a dc motor to a battery what happens? The motor jumps! Why does this happen? It happens because in that first instant that you connect it, the rotor leaps because it has not yet begun generating in opposition to itself! As soon as it begins turning though, it is generating and it reaches an eqilibrium we know as its "idle speed"...

As you begin to draw its generated power out, the motor speeds up! Yet, its not pulling any more current! So the reason it speeds up, is not because its drawing more current as much as it is being relieved of some of its internal opposition... Its not just gaining speed - its gaining real power! You can now add more mechanical load! (How about a Genhead?) Doing that brings the voltage back up. Its NOT drawing down the primaries, and yet, the load has increased both mechanically and electrically! And this is from stuff you don't have to build! As the motor speeds up, it gains tremendous torque - way more torque than I've ever seen any pulse motor generate! The faster it spins, the more it generates! The more it generates, the more you can take from it. Because it is acting as both a motor and a generator, it has something akin to a feedback loop built-in, and the power available grows... The more you take, the more it develops... What motor have you ever seen do that?

Now, this is done with an off-the-shelf industrial motor and an off-the-shelf generator. As we begin to scale up, this is going to take on more meaning - what is happening in the motor with the torque - its amazing. I once told David that I think our biggest problem is going to be having enough load! In my first video (a practice video I never uploaded to youtube) at one point part of my load slips off and the motor abruptly stops because I have the belt pulled pretty tight. As soon as I reconnect the load, the motor takes off like a scalded cat and all my lights are lit nice and bright and the motor is humming right along...

This balancing-side of things (the motor and batteries) opens the door to a motor of moderate size being able to use the power given it, generate power while doing it that we use to our advantage, and allows us to spin a genhead (the "business side" of the equation) with little concern for the lenz effect in the genhead - in fact, that lenz is just the mechanical load we need to raise the voltage between the motor and batteries to keep the voltage node or standing-wave going keeping the voltage lifted across the batteries...

Now, thanks to Randy making an AC battery, we can see what we're getting out of the motor much better and significantly reduce the "fixing" of the "bad battery"... This was a significant move forward for us. We need to continue to observe this system and see what it is telling us about what it is and how its working. There's much more to learn with this simple system... We need to start scaling up and taking advantage of all the extra power available to us...

I believe that we can make this system work on a level where we can run a loaded 12KW genhead powering our home as long as we have enough load on our motor/battery combination to keep the system balanced... And have power to spare... The motor being the heart of the system... My 2 cents for what its worth...

Best regards to all,

Luther
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Old 08-04-2013, 12:20 AM
wsxian2 wsxian2 is offline
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adding second motor

I have added a second motor as per the attached PNG graphic.

When you first connect, both motors start turning quite fast then slow down, one eventually going faster than the other. This may be self balancing?

My system is using Lead Acid batteries from scooters as Bat 1 and Bat 1.

Both Ms are two scooter motors from two different scooters and they are not the same motor.
One motor is connected to a load which is the wheel of the disassembled scooter.
The other motor is just the motor with no load.

My load was a 60w regular light bulb connected directly to the plus and minus of the bad battery.
It got hot so I know it was pulling a load.

In the first two tries, using OK batteries (about 9-11 volts, both lead acid) as the bad battery I was able to run the system with the load off the bad battery without problem. None of the batteries seem to go down and the bad battery seemed to gain in voltage.

So this seems capable of duplication. Something to try anyway and it charges up batteries!

Just a reminder to wear safety glasses. You can get some very hot sparks off these batteries, especially when they have lots of cold cranking amps (car batteries).

I have yet to find a good “Bad” battery. They seem elusive as snipes....

A note from the Far West.
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Old 08-04-2013, 12:32 AM
a.king21 a.king21 is offline
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An important point

The simple fact is that we can be cop over 1 but the system will not show it.
Charging and Discharging Lead Acid Batteries
has some info on battery efficiency.
So we can run a load, charge and discharge the batteries but find that after a week the batteries are flat.
The system is OU but the battery charge/discharge cycle is something like 80% efficient. So this system is even better than we think it is.
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Old 08-04-2013, 12:38 AM
a.king21 a.king21 is offline
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wsxian2

Are you saying that all the battery voltages in your system went up?
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Old 08-04-2013, 01:01 AM
wsxian2 wsxian2 is offline
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More on 2nd motor

a.king21

It seems so.

To others regarding the 2nd motor setup:

I have hooked up a battery that won't run the motors and it reads zero volts. I am using this as the "Bad" Battery.

Yet I can run a load off of it and the source batteries don't seem to go down. But strange: It reads -19 volts and some times -2 volts.

When it reads -19 volts, the volts seems to go more negative (-19.1, -19.2, -19.3 etc.) and the lamp bulb gets hot.
When the voltage reads -2 volts the lamp bulb cools off and the voltage goes towards zero (more positive --2.0, -1.99, -1.98, etc.).

I think the volt meter is effecting (affecting?) the battery reading. As it changes almost every time I check it (going from -19 to -2).

Just keeping you posted. Strange.

As noted above by a.king21, this may all be related to the lead acid battery cycle - these batteries could be going flat and I don't see it yet due to my runs being short.

Again from the Far West.
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Old 08-04-2013, 01:06 AM
a.king21 a.king21 is offline
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wsxian2

You are confirming something I alerted everyone to: namely that the battery(ies) change polarity. That's the amazing technology we are trying to give birth to here.
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Old 08-04-2013, 03:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsxian2 View Post
a.king21

It seems so.

To others regarding the 2nd motor setup:

I have hooked up a battery that won't run the motors and it reads zero volts. I am using this as the "Bad" Battery.

Yet I can run a load off of it and the source batteries don't seem to go down. But strange: It reads -19 volts and some times -2 volts.

When it reads -19 volts, the volts seems to go more negative (-19.1, -19.2, -19.3 etc.) and the lamp bulb gets hot.
When the voltage reads -2 volts the lamp bulb cools off and the voltage goes towards zero (more positive --2.0, -1.99, -1.98, etc.).

I think the volt meter is effecting (affecting?) the battery reading. As it changes almost every time I check it (going from -19 to -2).

Just keeping you posted. Strange.

As noted above by a.king21, this may all be related to the lead acid battery cycle - these batteries could be going flat and I don't see it yet due to my runs being short.

Again from the Far West.
Very Nice wxsian2! You have found a "Good" bad battery. If you continue to test with it using the 3 battery setup, it WILL repair. Try to find a second bad battery that is the same size. Then connect the positives of the two batteries. This arrangement will then be your new "3rd battery". It resists repair. Most have better luck with this arrangement. You will find a drawing of this arrangement in my signature. Congratulations, and welcome to the "I saw it too" club.
Randy
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Old 08-04-2013, 03:05 AM
wsxian2 wsxian2 is offline
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more on more on 2nd motor

This battery is now sitting at -3.5 volts after a run. Not sure what to do with a negative voltage battery.

The motor between the negatives (no load) finally started running very slowly (with a slight turn from my hand). It would almost stop and then pick up speed then slow down and then speed up and so on.

The motor between the positives never ran - that's the one with the wheel.

On this last run the voltage was at -2.0 and so I decided to wack the battery and found a spot to hit where the voltage jumped to -19.0 so there is some sort of physical problem with this battery. Later, during the run I could hit the battery at another spot and the voltage would drop to -2.0, and then hit it at the spot and it would jump back to -19.0. So a strange battery.

I went for a walk with the dogs and came back when it became darkish. I could see that the 60w lamp bulb was orange and when felt, it was hot. This was with the battery cable off the bad battery, but with the lamp bulb hooked to the cable which of course was hooked to the primaries bat 1 and bat 2. Needless to say, that reading had gone down a bit. So just a reminder to unhook your load from the system completely when done with a run!

This also indicates to me that the bulb was probably running off the primaries and not off the bad battery while the system was running. So disregard what I had indicated earlier about running a load off the dead bad battery.

Again, from the Far West
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Old 08-04-2013, 03:41 AM
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Unusual results

Hi folks, I've been using Randy's set-up , but one of my primaries is very weak. When you hook the motor to it ,by it self ,it drops to 9.5 volts ~.
So I have 1 good primary that holds voltage ,and the other not so good.
The 3 other batteries are all dead , the 2 transducers , and the 1 that's hooked to the inverter.
I run my loads off the back end inducer , and the 1 that is supposed to run the inverter.
But I hook capacitors in parallel with those 2 ,you have to adjust ....
Still trying but getting runs that take no voltage from that one good battery I have.
I have Matts' motor running ,a stock motor running , my own motor running, and a taillight running , 2 hours later ,it doesn't change..
Definitely something here.
Sorry wish I could explain it better.
artv
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:31 AM
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reaction ...

lampooned … and from some unexpected quarters too . One of them alas I can say little about and that's the first erfinder.. from what I can make out … It seems you have made a machine .. what machine ? Schematics ? drawings? Link to its thread ?
It seems it has a hall effect sensor somewhere , I as far as I can understand it does something or the other with a capacitor, something you seem well aware of as you say “I Know” .. It then seems we are not privileged to this “great enlightenment” I'm invited to have a guess at what you have been doing …. erfinder this is a forum dedicated to alternative energy the inference is “for the benefit of all” It is not a game of Charades there are people here spending time and money pursuing an extraordinary effect, what I see and how I think it relates I do my very best to explain. To all . Regardless of if you understand the conception of resonance into a matched circuit or not many do. As for playing guessing games to your tune regarding some machine I know absolutely nothing about …. I have no time for that sort nonsense .. I’ve got the rest of my life to get on with.

Next of course comes Matts off the cuff kick back .. delivered in his usual magnanimous style … the fact that all you see is ripple is absolutely irrelevant If you guys have learnt only one thing here it should be … Instruments are useless with this stuff …. And my Theories may be “thick” but they are far better than no theories and they seem to hang together. Whilst the headless chicken experiment technique of Edison might be preferred by Matt it is certainly is not by me !

If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search... I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labour.
Nickola Tesla


Whilst I have met Matt and know him to be an Intelligent man, on an open forum a response of “no more to be said “ to a “Thick theory” is nothing more or less than "Pig ignorance" . Because what he writes is such an anathema to me I'll try and spell it out for every one else . You may use your oscilloscope and see only a ripple, however that ripple is an algebraic sum of what is occurring at any instant. Matt is IMHO absoluty and totally wrong.. it isn't the silly ripple or anything about it you should consider .. rather the opposite .. what isnt a ripple.
You can study and play with that ripple for ever and a day as Matt suggests and IMHO you'll discover nothing. But by all means .. be my guest … to find this needle a magnet or a little thought and calculation is a much better idea,
however in the mean time what pray is the resistance of your motor ? Go ahead and measure it,
Tiny isn't it ? And so if you put 24 volts across that resistance what would be the current flow?
“Massive is the answer” if ohms law was the only force at play you and your motor would be blown to kingdom come by an exploding battery in seconds. So what prevents that happening ? Back emf its called in DC motor parlance or Lenz law in other guises. This is really very basic Michael Faraday …. In other word you may see “a ripple” but there is a total opposition to the very essence and power of electricity itself occurring in that armature action …as you ask Kerry Its what I refer to in the absence of anything else as … anti phase .. It is opposite in all respects.
It is described in detail by Peter Linderman in his first video if anybody doesn't acknowledge or understand this very basic formula of Faraday V= Eb + (Ia Ra) … In effect for those with the nous to see this as such .. electricity is divided into two different types …. one in assistance of the motor …. one in opposition , My investigation and strong suspicion leads me to the conclusion that these two Forces divide along musical lines … harmonics and overtones, Of course those of you who are with the diligence of a bee (or Matt) are busy examining each straw must simply .. continue.
however all I suggest as you experiment is .. try anti phase first

And so to Orion's some what Jaundice view … how ever he has come to the conclusion that I was trying to demonstrate KVA or KVAr I can't possibly imagine … It is true that these effects are extremely pertinent but they are in the department of transmission and reception of transverse and linear waves …and not the type of electricity used to make those waves. So just to clarify I wasn't attempting to display any sort of phase shift in that video
nor is it anything “reflected” Its induced and opposite .. just like the armature action. There is a very good demonstration of this effect about half way through this clip … two roller race bearings on an Iron bar … Using the Matt ripple theory this dead short would simply blow everything to kingdom come. It is the opposite theory that prevents that happening .... can you explain it with present dogma ? No of course not .. then don't expect me to !
but I am using and engineering the effect.

Part 4 of 6: Eric Dollard & Chris Carson Tesla Longitudinal Wave Energy SBARC Ham Radio - YouTube

There was no resonance involved in that video I made. It was not what I was trying to demonstrate at all . That you find it difficult to grasp I can fully understand … It seems like madness to me at times .. All that aside it agree's with all Edward Leedskalnin tells us. It also fits to the miracle that is occurring in front of us, of course each and all have their own .. thoughts idea's and run their own experiments .. I simply post my own theories and present the video's and conclusions I have come to, If it provokes thought and direction and gives folks a few less straws to inspect .. then my job is done.
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Last edited by Duncan; 08-04-2013 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 08-04-2013, 09:39 AM
erfinder erfinder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
lampooned … and from some unexpected quarters too . One of them alas I can say little about and that's the first erfinder.. from what I can make out … It seems you have made a machine .. what machine ? Schematics ? drawings? Link to its thread ?
It seems it has a hall effect sensor somewhere , I as far as I can understand it does something or the other with a capacitor, something you seem well aware of as you say “I Know” .. It then seems we are not privileged to this “great enlightenment” I'm invited to have a guess at what you have been doing …. erfinder this is a forum dedicated to alternative energy the inference is “for the benefit of all” It is not a game of Charades there are people here spending time and money pursuing an extraordinary effect, what I see and how I think it relates I do my very best to explain. To all . Regardless of if you understand the conception of resonance into a matched circuit or not many do. As for playing guessing games to your tune regarding some machine I know absolutely nothing about …. I have no time for that sort nonsense .. I’ve got the rest of my life to get on with.

Next of course comes Matts off the cuff kick back .. delivered in his usual magnanimous style … the fact that all you see is ripple is absolutely irrelevant If you guys have learnt only one thing here it should be … Instruments are useless with this stuff …. And my Theories may be “thick” but they are far better than no theories and they seem to hang together. Whilst the headless chicken experiment technique of Edison might be preferred by Matt it is certainly is not by me !

If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search... I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labour.
Nickola Tesla


Whilst I have met Matt and know him to be an Intelligent man, on an open forum a response of “no more to be said “ to a “Thick theory” is nothing more or less than "Pig ignorance" . Because what he writes is such an anathema to me I'll try and spell it out for every one else . You may use your oscilloscope and see only a ripple, however that ripple is an algebraic sum of what is occurring at any instant. Matt is IMHO absoluty and totally wrong.. it isn't the silly ripple or anything about it you should consider .. rather the opposite .. what isnt a ripple.
You can study and play with that ripple for ever and a day as Matt suggests and IMHO you'll discover nothing. But by all means .. be my guest … to find this needle a magnet or a little thought and calculation is a much better idea,
however in the mean time what pray is the resistance of your motor ? Go ahead and measure it,
Tiny isn't it ? And so if you put 24 volts across that resistance what would be the current flow?
“Massive is the answer” if ohms law was the only force at play you and your motor would be blown to kingdom come by an exploding battery in seconds. So what prevents that happening ? Back emf its called in DC motor parlance or Lenz law in other guises. This is really very basic Michael Faraday …. In other word you may see “a ripple” but there is a total opposition to the very essence and power of electricity itself occurring in that armature action …as you ask Kerry Its what I refer to in the absence of anything else as … anti phase .. It is opposite in all respects.
It is described in detail by Peter Linderman in his first video if anybody doesn't acknowledge or understand this very basic formula of Faraday V= Eb + (Ia Ra) … In effect for those with the nous to see this as such .. electricity is divided into two different types …. one in assistance of the motor …. one in opposition , My investigation and strong suspicion leads me to the conclusion that these two Forces divide along musical lines … harmonics and overtones, Of course those of you who are with the diligence of a bee (or Matt) are busy examining each straw must simply .. continue.
however all I suggest as you experiment is .. try anti phase first

And so to Orion's some what Jaundice view … how ever he has come to the conclusion that I was trying to demonstrate KVA or KVAr I can't possibly imagine … It is true that these effects are extremely pertinent but they are in the department of transmission and reception of transverse and linear waves …and not the type of electricity used to make those waves. So just to clarify I wasn't attempting to display any sort of phase shift in that video
nor is it anything “reflected” Its induced and opposite .. just like the armature action. There is a very good demonstration of this effect about half way through this clip … two roller race bearings on an Iron bar … Using the Matt ripple theory this dead short would simply blow everything to kingdom come. It is the opposite theory that prevents that happening .... can you explain it with present dogma ? No of course not .. then don't expect me to !
but I am using and engineering the effect.

Part 4 of 6: Eric Dollard & Chris Carson Tesla Longitudinal Wave Energy SBARC Ham Radio - YouTube

There was no resonance involved in that video I made. It was not what I was trying to demonstrate at all . That you find it difficult to grasp I can fully understand … It seems like madness to me at times .. All that aside it agree's with all Edward Leedskalnin tells us. It also fits to the miracle that is occurring in front of us, of course each and all have their own .. thoughts idea's and run their own experiments .. I simply post my own theories and present the video's and conclusions I have come to, If it provokes thought and direction and gives folks a few less straws to inspect .. then my job is done.

Right...appreciate your assistance Duncan.....
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Old 08-04-2013, 10:09 AM
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about as much as I appreciate your hypothetical machine that you already have all the answers for anyway I dare say … any time erfinder Its been a real pleasure .. happy to have helped
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Old 08-04-2013, 10:27 AM
erfinder erfinder is offline
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about as much as I appreciate your hypothetical machine that you already have all the answers for anyway I dare say … any time erfinder Its been a real pleasure .. happy to have helped
Why do you keep saying hypothetical, the machine and associated effect are anything but....I didn't show a schematic.....you don't need to see one to understand my machine...a simple hall sensor triggered BJT or FET, with a recovery capacitor, and buffer capacitor across the supply is all that's needed...no PWM...circuit isn't the middle point...coil to coil interactions and inner connections are...I was asking your opinion....you have presented opinions here with less starting information....A video link was posted elsewhere...you might have watched it and got bored and blew it off...it happens...anyway....thanks for wasting your time....the pleasure was all mine...

Regards
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Old 08-04-2013, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
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lampooned … and from some unexpected quarters too .

And so to Orion's some what Jaundice view … how ever he has come to the conclusion that I was trying to demonstrate KVA or KVAr I can't possibly imagine


Sorry Duncan, I don't see anything I said that was lampooning you. Like I said, it was my fault for misinterpreting your video.

I also said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionLightShip View Post

I'm sorry Duncan but try as I may, I am not qualified to understand the meaning of "phase reversal harmonic and overtone relationship."
I talked to erfinder at length yesterday and found him to be quite friendly, open, extremely intelligent and hiding nothing. His motor might even have significance here, yet something tells me that he may never set foot in this thread again.

It is a shame that scientific debate and discussion should be taken so seriously as to degrade into a caustic puddle. Nothing is really worth that.

We break from our regularly scheduled broadcast for this important public service announcement.
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Old 08-04-2013, 03:18 PM
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OrionLightShip OrionLightShip is offline
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Splitting the Positive

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Hello OrionLightShip,


I truly believe that this is related to the motor, and positive and or negative splitting aspect of the 3BGS....that's my only reason for posting this here...

Splitting the positive and negative reveals the self oscillating nature of the current(s)....

Regards
Brilliant.

This is what I always tend to forget first. This all starts with what is happening between those two positive poles.....right? or am I wrong again?

It is convenient and apparently in vogue to shout throw out the motor, but you can't really do that until you have a replacement. The motor is not the effect but rather a causative agent or catalyst. If there is a naturally occurring electric or magnetic oscillation between the positive poles then it can be augmented and explored while running a working system. Just my personal observation and the path I am actually already on.

Randy's new design has reduced this to something easily replicated by anyone...even me. I already have a working pulse motor so why not...I'm going to have to source batteries and jump in with both feet.
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:36 PM
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3bgs

I think we are a bit distracted like these poor fellas:
Which way are we to go? -video-
This thread is about a motor and some batteries and the effect they have working together.
Happy Experimenting,
Randy
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:00 AM
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Hi all,

yesterday I run my setup with two 7Ah 12v primaries, two transducers and buffer battery, all 7Ah. My motor with same motor as generator shaft coupled was pulling about 4-4.5 A, so I put about 50W in light bulbs as a load on the buffer to balance the system.
The primaries were dropping all the time, even when balancing so that the buffer wouldn't charge or drop. After about 20 minutes the motor was so hot that its bearing melted the plastic encasing it...gone... This was a Johnson dc motor for 12V, 18000 rpm pulling 1.5 A unloaded.

The transducer batts were connected as per latest schematic, I didn't use the bifilar coil.
Don't know, maybe the load was to big for 7Ah batts. I think I'll have another run with a transformer, much easier to control with PWM.

@Matt: what do you do with the coil collapse of your pulse motors or transformers, do you recycle it or just let it collapse freely?

regards,
Mario
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:59 AM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Quote:
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.....
@Matt: what do you do with the coil collapse of your pulse motors or transformers, do you recycle it or just let it collapse freely?
regards,
Mario
You got options. One thing I was looking at was more less emulating what I see coming out of the motor. There is no collapse in that case and no load just capacitor to keep a resonant state up. You also have to use a toroid as they do not get to violent about saturations.
To pulse I would just use a reverse bypass diode around the switch which should be in front of the load and let everything happen freely. I haven't tried it that way yet. If heat were an issue I might use a P channel or change the position and type back to an N to drive after the load. In that case I would just diode around the inductor back to the source.

I just got some AGM's over the weekend.

I made 3 runs yesterday. 2 of them showed charging the third failed because one of the dead batteries started charging. So I gotta keep shorted out for a bit or find some more dead batteries.

Matt
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Old 08-06-2013, 01:22 AM
wsxian2 wsxian2 is offline
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ala duncan

See the attached png.

There is some quote that I can't find related to "it has the beauty of not being tried before."

Based on what Duncan has indicated (see page 83, post 2466) this is a Wheatstone bridge circuit.

Right now there are thunderstorms prowling my area and if you remember my workspace is outside so I was out of there! But prior to this closing of my workspace I tried the circuit and I was able to run a load off of Bat 3 (60w light bulb) and the primaries and Bat 3 all seem to be ok or even gaining voltage -on a 25 minute run. Only one of the motors turned (the one without load) and it turned every so slowly!

By the way, if you reverse the polarity on Bat 3, both motors run like crazy and Bat 3 immediately goes negative. Go figure.

Preliminary results and these could definitely change (my runs may be too short) but I won't be able to do any more tonight - keeping you posted with lots of thunder here in the Far West.
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