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  #2191  
Old 07-19-2013, 05:35 AM
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Garry,
Thanks for that. I will replace that battery first thing in the morning before I do anymore test runs and measure the voltages on the primaries with the new battery installed.

Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 07-19-2013 at 05:47 AM.

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  #2192  
Old 07-19-2013, 12:56 PM
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No sweat with this ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
A motor and a couple batteries? Not too complex. The interactions? Maybe it IS simple, but we are looking at the wrong things. The opinion I was referring to was that of my own.

errfinder: EMF? ElectroMotive or ElectroMagnetic, they are used interchangeably, but they are not the same. I prefer to study the later's interaction. Sorry Duncan, I think you are on the right track, but with the wrong force.

Randy
I have no problem with that adjustment Randy. I have rather written the theory of ground (telluric) currents and the maths for “in house” just couldn't bring myself to make that quantum leap.
If I do then of course the whole situation changes .. the “bad battery” becomes series resonant w.r.t the rest of the circuit. (ish)
and that could well be true. Lets assume for a moment the force you propose which I described but cant quite fully accept is right and telluric current is what’s feeding this machine (and it could very well be ) because all said and done I’ve described the telluric system whilst portraying the maths of an “in house system” .. “neither fish nor fowl” . And the difference is as you point out .. opposite
so lets go with “Telluric ground waves” if that's true then the state of the bad battery as you see it in circuit would be “parallel resonant” and “everything’s reversed” just as you suggest.
In a round about way the logic for that is described by EPD about 1M40 into this
Part 3 of 6: Eric Dollard Tesla Longitudinal Wave Energy SBARC Ham Radio with Chris Carson - YouTube
an SWR of infinity !... but for transmission , we wish to receive , an opposite state
That’s resonance he's talking about … and ground cable … and huge ground current (just like is frying the terminals of your battery Randy) and
If I accept all that Randy then the condition of the “bad battery” alters totally to parallel resonant that is maximum voltage (over time) and minimum current as we view the circuit, to nail it a bit more it would be very useful to know if … in order to stay “in the zone” so to speak you slow down the motor or allow it to speed up …load it or release ? It is frequency I think of here XL being proportional to frequency and XC being inversely proportional I got the impression that loading the motor (lowering the frequency) was an asset with the little motor I ran, I would like a consensus though, .
your quite right Randy I have described one system and portrayed another I’ve just slapped my own wrist!
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  #2193  
Old 07-19-2013, 02:08 PM
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Modification

Guys,
I have made a slight modification to the 3rd battery configuration . I took two dead batteries (do not use good batteries for this), connect the +positive+ posts together. I used this for my 3rd battery. Yes, I had a -negative- post on each side to connect to my 3BGS as the 3rd battery component. This is our 0-point transducer. Dave, you won't have to fight the increased charge on this arrangement as you do the repairing 3rd single battery. I have had good luck with this arrangement. Voltages will move around in the dead batteries, but I have not had any repair take place after hours of experimenting. Thanks, a.king for the inspiration.

As I said earlier, do not use good batteries. They tend to be explosive and boil like mad.
Good Luck,
Randy
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Last edited by tachyoncatcher; 07-21-2013 at 02:04 AM. Reason: Correct polarity
  #2194  
Old 07-19-2013, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
Guys,
I have made a slight modification to the 3rd battery configuration . I took two dead batteries (do not use good batteries for this), connect the -negative- posts together. I used this for my 3rd battery. Yes, I had a +positive+ post on each side to connect to my 3BGS as the 3rd battery component. This is our 0-point transducer. Dave, you won't have to fight the increased charge on this arrangement as you do the repairing 3rd single battery. I have had good luck with this arrangement. Voltages will move around in the dead batteries, but I have not had any repair take place after hours of experimenting. Thanks, a.king for the inspiration.

As I said earlier, do not use good batteries. They tend to be explosive and boil like mad.
Good Luck,
Randy
Excellent! You are closer to indirectly replicating my work than anyone on this forum, and doing so with batteries...go figure..I still think you want the difference in potential between banks, 24v ++ and 48v --your inner connections are spot on in my opinion.. The weak link now is the motor...its not wound like it should for you to capitalize on this battery connection....when properly connected, your motor will become a magnetic self oscillating apparatus...this self oscillating feature functions as an accumulator and rectifier all in one....a system stabilizer, it also puts you the position to modulate the 0 that you just created.....

Positive to positive and negative to negative isn't bucking....look carefully....here is the birth place of the neutral center..... why...think about it....

Excellent work...keep it up...

Regards
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  #2195  
Old 07-19-2013, 03:53 PM
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Turion - Great videos - Thanks for running those. It was very interesting watching the test in progress. I have a charger that has an on-board fan that I run from a sealed 12v lead acid motorcycle (or hobby) battery to charge my LiPo RC heli (Blade 400). I notice that when charging and I also hook up my 12v charger to the battery, the voltage increases immediately (the fan speeds up) and will continue to increase as the lead acid battery charges and again when the LiPo batteries are full and the charger goes to standby. The amp meter on the 12v charger will continue to decrease to 0 as the lead acid battery continues to accumulate a charge. Your test reminded me of that as you tested the voltages while the batteries were connected to the system. Although voltage is an easy way to get an estimate of the charge, the voltages might be lower if tested after the wires are disconnected. I would be interested in the specific gravity of each cell in each of the 3 batteries in phase 1 (before the test) and phase 3 (after an optimum run to maximize the charges). This is because specific gravity is considered by some to be more accurate than simple voltage as a test for remaining capacity. When using voltage, other factors have to compensated for to get a good capacity reading. A good hands off way to test capacity (you may have tried this) is to connect an inverter, a filament style light bulb, and an old style plug in electric clock (available at your local garage sale ) to a battery (set the clock at 12:00 and see where it stops). That would also be a good before and after test for all 3 batteries before and after). I really would be thrilled to see an increase of energy in the system after the run.

What do you think?
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  #2196  
Old 07-19-2013, 04:00 PM
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Randy,
So two dead batteries in parallel in the third position? Or are are you connected to the two positives for the two connections to the bad battery? (one to the good battery and one to the motor...which is what it sounds like, but want to be sure) or do you connect one bad battery as usual and the negative of the other bad battery to it (neg to neg) and leave one positive hanging in the air. Not clear about this. Sorry.
What kind of batteries are you using AGM or SLA?
Are all four batteries the same kind?
Are all four batteries the same amp hours?
If so, how many amp hours are they?

I can run over to Batteries + and pick up some more dead batteries


Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 07-19-2013 at 04:26 PM.
  #2197  
Old 07-19-2013, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erfinder View Post
Excellent! You are closer to indirectly replicating my work than anyone on this forum... motor will become a magnetic self oscillating apparatusExcellent work...keep it up...

Regards
I never said I used a stock motor. Nor am I using the 3BGS pulse motor. One of my own design. But the comment above makes me think we are aligned in our thinking. Thanks for the compliment.
Randy
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  #2198  
Old 07-19-2013, 04:35 PM
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Skeptic,
What you are measuring when you use an inverter at all is the point at which less than 12 volts goes to the inverter, because at that point it shuts off, and so does anything connected to it. I have been down that road.

What I measured was how long the motor would run on 2 fully charged 12 volt batteries. It was 25 hours and 31 minutes. I will be running the 3BGS for several days of testing, no more than 20 minutes at a time, and at the end of that time, I will see if I can run it for 25 hours and 31 minutes without recharging. I already KNOW I can, because I have done it before, but I'm always willing to demonstrate this stuff to people who might be interested.

Dave
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  #2199  
Old 07-19-2013, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
I never said I used a stock motor. Nor am I using the 3BGS pulse motor. One of my own design. But the comment above makes me think we are aligned in our thinking. Thanks for the compliment.
Randy
Your own design....cool....care to give a few details....I can show you the self oscillation, square wave building phenomena if your interested....I would like to hear more about your rig....


Regards
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  #2200  
Old 07-19-2013, 05:16 PM
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Turion: Thank you for the explanation! I do not have experience with inverters. Motor run time will still be a good metric. Here's an interest page on voltage and battery charge state. Motorhome and Caravan Info Australia » Blog Archive » Why Battery Voltage Does NOT Indicate Battery Charge State
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Last edited by Skeptic; 07-19-2013 at 05:58 PM. Reason: Add Link
  #2201  
Old 07-19-2013, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Randy,
So two dead batteries in parallel in the third position? Or are are you connected to the two positives for the two connections to the bad battery? (one to the good battery and one to the motor...which is what it sounds like, but want to be sure) or do you connect one bad battery as usual and the negative of the other bad battery to it (neg to neg) and leave one positive hanging in the air. Not clear about this. Sorry.
What kind of batteries are you using AGM or SLA?
Are all four batteries the same kind?
Are all four batteries the same amp hours?
If so, how many amp hours are they?
I can run over to Batteries + and pick up some more dead batteries
Dave
The two open negative posts are used in place of the 3rd battery's + and - posts. I am currently using AGMs. I don't have the patients you do, I use 7Ah batteries. So my tests are quickly conclusive. A 5 amp drain on a 7 Ah battery will tell a story real quick. All batteries are identical. I think it only matters that the source batteries match and the transducer? batteries match. I will draw this up when I have more time.
Randy
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Last edited by tachyoncatcher; 07-20-2013 at 12:15 AM. Reason: Correct polarity
  #2202  
Old 07-19-2013, 07:00 PM
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Randy,
I've got a bunch of different sized AGM's and will throw that circuit together and watch it while I am doing my other testing today. Are you running any loads off of any of the batteries? If so, which ones. When you draw it up, please show where you are connecting loads and how much. I'd like to replicate as closely as possible. Batteries definitely WON'T be a problem. As for the motor you are using, is it a modified Razor Scooter motor, or have you gone to a different chassis for your motor design work?

This fits right in with what I was talking about last night, when I said I thought we needed to supply one end of battery three with power and then the other end of battery thee once it had swapped polarities. By putting TWO batteries in the third position with the positives facing out, the current can hit the "bad" battery from either direction with the exact same result. We don't HAVE to flip the battery around to get the result we want. Duhhh

Luther and I have talked AT LENGTH on the phone about the 3BGS...especially the performance of my original. If you believe as I do, that when you measure voltage across the bad battery you are measuring the difference between the two good batteries in series and what is in the bad battery, it makes sense that this voltage reading goes down from 24 volts as the bad battery begins charging up. Even though the voltage that is accumulating in the bad battery is a negative voltage (for lack of a better word.) This would explain WHY the motor shut off on my original. When the voltage in the bad battery becomes so high, it tries to force itself back through the motor against the flow of "positive" voltage from the source batteries.The motor reaches a point where those equalize from both sides and shuts off because there is no "flow". It is at the center, or the bloch wall position in a magnet. Of course, this is just my theory, but it is the only way I could explain the motor shutting off and immediately the bad battery jumped to 24 volts, because it didn't hold a charge. It would TAKE one, either positive or negative, but wouldn't hold it. The motor now sees a flow and begins to run, and the process is repeated. When loads were connected to battery 3, power was consumed that would have gone back toward the motor to fight what was coming from the primaries. The motor never reached that point where it was the center between pos and neg, so it never shut off, and continued to run.

What we have NOT found is a battery that immediately LOSES ALL CHARGE the moment the motor shuts off.

Babble, babble, babble. That's why I started this forum...so I could throw all these ideas out here and we can discuss them and figure this thing out. I know Duncan will have some fun with all of this.

Dave
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  #2203  
Old 07-19-2013, 07:08 PM
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AC Battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
The two open positive posts are used in place of the 3rd battery's + and - posts. I am currently using AGMs. I don't have the patients you do, I use 7Ah batteries. So my tests are quickly conclusive. A 5 amp drain on a 7 Ah battery will tell a story real quick. All batteries are identical. I think it only matters that the source batteries match and the transducer? batteries match. I will draw this up when I have more time.
Randy
Hi Randy,

You turned a DC battery into an AC battery. It can also begin to look a little like a center-tapped transformer...

Thanks for sharing this with the group.

Regards,

Luther
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  #2204  
Old 07-19-2013, 09:06 PM
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My Process so far

I use 5 batteries. All AGM 12v 7Ah. They are as follows:
  • 2 source batteries, full charge, radiant conditioned. Charged with a SSG.
  • 2 transducer batteries (3rd position), DEAD, no conditioning to start with. The ones I have been using with this setup have 0.1v and 6v. These charges have moved around about a volt during testing. Nothing significant.
  • 1 Buffer battery, drained charge (11.5v to 12v), radiant conditioned. This I use for my loads.

I always use a load. After all, if it can't stand up to that what use is it? This is my test setup. My load is usually a 2000w msw inverter with a resistive load. Light bulb, 40-200w incandescent. I follow Turion's schematic except for:
My motor is on the positive side of the source. My buffer battery is connected to the transducer(3rd batteries) as Turion shows a load, my inverter is connected in parallel with the buffer battery. No resistors or diodes. This is my setup today. It changes with the wind.

Good Luck,
Randy
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Last edited by tachyoncatcher; 07-24-2013 at 12:38 AM. Reason: 072313 Drawing update
  #2205  
Old 07-19-2013, 10:18 PM
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Randy,
Attached is what I interpret from what you are saying. Can you correct this when you get a chance?
Thanks

Test (setup and start voltages Skeptic Test 9 - YouTube
Test (end voltages) Skeptic Test 10 - YouTube

Dave

I have tried the setup I show here (Schematic I drew of what I THINK Randy means) with two different sets of bad batteries. So far, I haven't been able to get the motor to start up. Will keep working on it. Usually when I connect a load across battery 3 the motor starts, but not in this case for some reason.
DELETED SCHEMATIC...see Randy's post above.
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Last edited by Turion; 07-20-2013 at 01:26 AM.
  #2206  
Old 07-19-2013, 11:47 PM
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Runs

Dave,
You got it, except I was wrong about the polarity of my transducer batteries. The positives are connected (see drawing). Whoops, my bad. My buffer battery is usually drained. Not sure if that matters during startup, but I don't want energy from the buffer polluting my test results. I have enough power in that battery to run the inverter with a load for about a minute before the inverter shuts down and starts beeping. So, I connect my loads to the inverter. Turn on the inverter. Then quickly connect my motor. It starts immediately as the load is already on. If I futz around with the connections, the inverter will shut down. This has been my experience.
Good Luck,
Randy
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Last edited by tachyoncatcher; 07-20-2013 at 12:19 AM. Reason: polarity correction
  #2207  
Old 07-20-2013, 08:57 AM
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quite right David .. still digesting that

so we are getting very very close, boys and girls .. and yes your Right David Randy's disclosure takes a little thinking about and well done a.king if its grown from a seed you planted. Needs must I occupy myself with things in and around whilst I try to digest,Its how I roll so there's a few things and thoughts I'd like to bring your attention to first ... Here's Alex Jones covering energy (which he doesn't do very often), pick it up about one hour in. Whilst it doesn't point out what we should do, Its made very clear what we should not,
The Alex Jones Show - Sunday, July 07, 2013 (Full Show): Jim Marrs - YouTube
I have seen many times folks come on forum talking about “my system” what's the point of having a” my system” ? I wonder what people intend for “their system” I like to think the thrust of this thread is to contest the evil state of this world, an evil which seems to infest every fibre of the “free energy” movement... but a little more on that in a moment. As for 3BGS IMHO we need to..
Get it cheap,get it simple,get it easy to make get it reliable and more importantly get it out there.
And if we are lucky we might even get out alive ourself s .
As you have just heard and know very well (unless your a total nit wit) nothing else has been able to get the job done , and its clear that all the “my systems”
have been done over and over again, nothing new, nothing invented .. we are quite literally “exhuming the dead” the “my system” guys are simply part of the problem... Ghoul's feasting on the bodies of previous murdered developers .. So Gollum has his ring … enjoy it whilst you may,My precious … but Smeagol, I wouldn’t be inclined to hold onto it for to long.





It seems a very simple good and evil situation. I often think of the last energy conference I attended amongst the display items was the 3BGS genesis a working computer controlled Tesla switch.
So where is it? Patented? So called “development” ? Investment bankster's NDAs? Military classification? Who knows
Whatever, it is not out here in the big wide world is it ? another win for evil, and evil demons.
As Orion says reflect adapt and then march onwards, so called “free energy” has been experienced by nearly everybody on this thread, Never mind the $60,000 Alex Jones talked of for a hydrogen system … The potential is here to get the job done for $600 or much much less and a simple shed build too!
This system can drive an inverter and simply “take over”I'm sure the packs on the right scent even if one or two of the hounds get lost in the long grass now and then.
As you know I am a huge Fan of EPDs work even if I am in the deep end and need water wings ,
It was then with some annoyance I listened to this Interview

Eric Dollard Interview EXPOSING RAY SAVANT "Techzombie" - YouTube

There must be something backward in that country surly ? You have a huge national asset in that man, He's even tried to save the countries national assets himself … It looks like he's here again full circle about to be raped and pillaged, damaged and hurt, yet again.
As I commented earlier evil seems to ingress into all things “ free energy” we need to force our way though it , If not how are all our your grandchildren going to view us? Assuming they survive of course.
As for Eric surly there's some media tyke or baseball player with a lump of property that needs looking after ..and wouldn't mind a resident genius and his coyote in the 3 phase Garage.
All quite depressing. What about a Chicken supervisor Kerry? or a new building Plot “guard coyote”David?.... Mind I guess coyote's and chickens is a bad mix now I think about it.
Now lets see what's next to have a grump at
.
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  #2208  
Old 07-20-2013, 03:35 PM
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if a picture paints a thousand words ..

OK Randy that's cooked for a while … although perhaps not glazed yet … here's the way through at least a little bit of this maze I guess although we may view the “force” as different .. who cares ?
If it works .. This chapter is closed.
The ambition is surly to get this thing under control .. move the maths and science into this dimension so that we may have some perspective of it.
OK they say a picture paints a thousand words .. then can a few pictures paint a chapter?
Whilst giving this not to much consideration (lest I hurt myself) I come up with this...
Déjà vu ? This is the Wheatstone bridge.. an extremely sensitive piece of test equipment for accurately measuring resistance .. the maths and theory beyond doubt.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...stone_Bridge.s
R2 X Rx = R1 X R3 at balance nothing much more to be said about that ! Charles Wheatstone , Jolly good egg!
Of course we humans are never satisfied so that’s the DC resistance bridge ,, where's the AC and all its scribble involving impedance ?
Here it is boys and girls just as well inspected to the nth degree …

Electrical Theory: Understanding the AC Wheatstone Bridge - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

bit of a bonce ache … but you can do this! … Now lookee here ..
Here's an obscure circuit for an extremely wide band SWR meter (SWR= power factor = resonance ) all be it in Spanish but I'm sure if you take a little time you can see each element of “the bridge” applied here .. can you see ?

Wideband SWR Meter



I do hope you get the picture … the bridge is equally applicable to AC and very high frequencies
now lets muck about with Randy's drawing .. even though I have no permisso .. he's an
understanding sort of guy and all round “Jolly good egg” although I haven't quite grasped what intellectual property may be I must confess, I hope I don't trample on it as I mess with his drawing.
I also hope there's not to many loons here... about to rush off shouting “my system” what is it with these bangers? No spine? I don't know .. anyway go scribble with this and see what resolve there is
here is Randy's drawing because of course
“a thing of beauty is a joy forever”
John Keats



and here I fiddle with the masterpiece like giving Mona Lisa a wart … (the smile was probably wind anyway.)



so come all Ye scribblers get on the case … I have to be sober to mess with the J operator a state I don’t appreciate on Saturday ... and am certainly not in just at this moment in time. Give us direction ]
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Last edited by Duncan; 07-20-2013 at 11:59 PM.
  #2209  
Old 07-20-2013, 03:52 PM
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We CAN change the world. All it takes is some committed people (committed to our cause, not to an institution) and a heck of a lot of hard work. We will figure this out. And when we do, all the attention that is elsewhere will be focused right here on THIS group of people who are putting this puzzle together piece by piece. I don't for a second mean to take ANYTHING away from people like Eric, or John B. They have done amazing things, and have advanced the cause by light years, but I don't get to ride around in a Bedinimobile or a Dollardmobile. We need to bring a device to the public for FREE that can provide a source of free energy. And we need to do it NOW.

Dave
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  #2210  
Old 07-20-2013, 04:51 PM
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Randys New Setup

Two bits to add about two things:

1. Try a good Earth ground tied to the two positives between the transducer batteries.

2. If that doesn't help then move the motor to run across both source batteries (provided you can run 24 volts.

Just a thought....
Still trying to adjust to the viewpoint that the scalar is just a waste byproduct and isn't really needed here. That any motor works is proof of that.

I have no idea what we are looking for? parallel aetheric sympathetic resonance? We live in a strange dimension and universe, unbelievable actually.

I like your bridge analogy Duncan.... #2 above makes the circuit symmetrical like a bridge.

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  #2211  
Old 07-20-2013, 05:12 PM
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Smile Good Progress in here

Hi 3BGS Team!
May I join your lounge here ?
Turion, many thanks for deciding to make these interesting results public for everyone to see and "taste".

Recently I decided to make some experiments.
So, given the fact that I have collected quite a lot of motorcylce batteries I thought to give a go to the whole thing.
Please keep in mind that I have not read all pages in this thread. I`ve read from first to page 27~ and then "jumped" to page 69 and on till here we are now(page).
(Still trying to read from the rest of the posts, however)

The results of my experiments where interesting, even though not exactly as i.e Turion`s exact system or other folks` setups here.
My first experiment involved a few motorcycle batteries and a 36v dc brushed motor.
As one could expect, when conected the "dead" battery poles were reading 24v or so.
It started to get down to 18v and on the motor went.
I left like that for about 40mins or so and the dead battery had already woken up so to say from it`s dead state.
Puting a 10w 12v lamp on it showed it had taken some charge.
The good batteries eventually had also losen some charge, and letting them there a long
recovered some of that energy, but not all of it.
The good thing however is that my bad battery didn`t like to hold that charge even for at least resting overnight.
So I tried different motors litle ones and not so litle ones, like
12v cassette player motor,VHS loading motors, 6v 5a toy machine motor,
and a 12v car radiator motor, all of whom with different results.
But to this time I have yet to complete a "balanced" system so I can draw some more power from.
Side results:when these litle motors are used I get a slight difference of temp
on the bad battery poles, like Duncan has seen and reported but no ice on them not yet.
when a load is connected to the bad battery terminals it gives a different
type of sparking than that of the original sparks one gets from a battery when shorted etc.
I see there my setup is not yet balanced since I need more experimenting on this
and will do them when time permits.
Meanwhile, my bad battery hasn`t changed that much, so I see I can continue test on that battery.
When a converter is connected to the bad battery, it cannot maintain continuity
even if the motor (not the litle ones in this case) is stopped entirely by holding on it.

Nice to see that other guys have had more success with the 3BGS.
It means that I have work ahead of me to do to balance my setup.
This as well might be true for others who are getting around all of this.

A suggestion from me to the more succesfull replicators out there is that
when posting, please post as much details of your setup, so for helping others
speed up their crude setups.

Many thanks to contributors in this thread.
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  #2212  
Old 07-20-2013, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionLightShip View Post
Two bits to add about two things:

1. Try a good Earth ground tied to the two positives between the transducer batteries.
Exactly right! I mentioned it in an earlier post, but I did fail to add it to the drawing. I will correct it. This is a critical point. The ground in the wrong place will DRAIN, or rather draw off, what we are hoping to stimulate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionLightShip View Post
2. If that doesn't help then move the motor to run across both source batteries (provided you can run 24 volts.

Just a thought....
Still trying to adjust to the viewpoint that the scalar is just a waste byproduct and isn't really needed here. That any motor works is proof of that.

I have no idea what we are looking for? parallel aetheric sympathetic resonance? We live in a strange dimension and universe, unbelievable actually.
Magnetics, my friend. IMAO, we have been chasing the wrong force. I will give #2 a try. If it fails, it will help confirm my thinking.
--Edit:-- Yes! It failed. I got about 30 minutes out of it. All batteries drained.
In the run before this test, with the setup as drawn, I shut it down after 3 hours and went to bed. Batteries still charged. --Edit>--

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionLightShip View Post
I like your bridge analogy Duncan.... #2 above makes the circuit symmetrical like a bridge.

Duncan, anything I post here is open source and you can do what you please with it. But, in my distorted way of thinking, your drawing is not the same. Wrong force. In my tests, physical positioning can make a difference. Another reason I suggest wrong force. Instead of a bunch of electron balls with a charge traveling down a pipe, think of a sound wave that is forced to travel along the wire. A compression wave of sorts. Different dynamic. Not limited to the wire, but attracted to the material of it. A sticky wave, that drags other things along with it. !! Huh? !! Magnetics buddy! I think we've made this a lot harder than it has to be by looking at the wrong thing. Ok, I feel like a newborn baby laying on a table. Enough of that. Let the experiments show us the way!
Randy
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Last edited by tachyoncatcher; 07-20-2013 at 08:37 PM. Reason: Results of test
  #2213  
Old 07-20-2013, 07:37 PM
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Welcome

Peculiar,

Every motor is different, so balancing your setup is going to be the biggest challenge. You need a way to put a load on the motor and small loads to add to battery three. In my experience, you HAVE to have a load on the motor for some reason. Use one of your motors as your run motor and the other as a generator. Build or buy a full wave bridge and then you can run 12 volt loads on both sides of the setup to balance it. There are no tips or tricks other than what I put inthe first post, at least not that I know of. But any thing I can do to help, let me know. I want to see everyone who tries this get in some successful runs so they see what we are talking about.

Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 07-20-2013 at 09:18 PM.
  #2214  
Old 07-20-2013, 09:43 PM
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Thumbs up Thanks Turion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Peculiar,

Every motor is different, so balancing your setup is going to be the biggest challenge. You need a way to put a load on the motor and small loads to add to battery three. In my experience, you HAVE to have a load on the motor for some reason. Use one of your motors as your run motor and the other as a generator. Build or buy a full wave bridge and then you can run 12 volt loads on both sides of the setup to balance it. There are no tips or tricks other than what I put inthe first post, at least not that I know of. But any thing I can do to help, let me know. I want to see everyone who tries this get in some successful runs so they see what we are talking about.

Dave
Hi Turion.
Thanks again for the help you are giving to anyone here.
I`ve already tried out some minor loads like pc fan-motors etc.
I guess I need to charge the source batteries fully to make balancing tests with the small motors
even though I already did a axle-to-axle two identical motors, one as a gen and putting mini-loads to it.
Fortunatelly I have around enough burnt-out pc power supplies and spare parts to play with.
Also some good schottky diodes, high speed diodes.
I have no doubt that there are any hidden tips &tricks because everything is on the table and really very simple schematic.
Even folks with none electric/electronics knowledge can do this simple experiment and repeat the 3BGS.
Also there is the other thing I see here, from your responses that this system needs to be replicated by
as much people as possible, and as fast it can be, so to engineer out different aspect of the system so that it becomes a "serious power supply"
you know.. a very useful energy machine.
Me too, like to do as much as my time permits me to do experiments as much as possible to learn from this simple-looking setup,
but with great and promissing results.

So, keep up the good work guys & girls!
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  #2215  
Old 07-20-2013, 10:24 PM
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circuit different ? only in aspect.

It also crossed my mind Randy …. as you are having a deal of success earthing one side of the Battery .. but frying one side of the battery terminals …. an interesting take on it could well be earthing both sides of the thing with back to back Diodes A'la Avramenko plug

Exploring the Avramenko Plug - Heretical Builders

This could (perhaps) balance the current that’s frying one side of the battery. It would also bring the bridge into balance. …. Just a thought
Yeah the Bridge is novel isn’t it Kerry .. It focuses all of the mathematics, frequency,impedance phase relationship and so on right on this circuit …. It makes it engineer-able.
I'm not so sure about any motor … gotta be brushed that’s for sure . IMHO a total reversal of current in the fastest time .. at a frequency that will resonant with local telluric current is what's occurring (I think) but that's just me dipping my toe in the water.
As for the bridge drawing being different Randy … Its actually drawn wire for wire … its the same circuit just drawn a little differently. I did that simply to emphasise that you have wired a bridge circuit and the full weight of the maths and theory of which there's masses can be focused on that circuit (should you wish)
As for the magnetics There is really no dispute. Which is why I drew a wound toroid on ferrite much earlier. I believe it to be magnetic too, The question is .. from which dimension and quadrant .
Or rather to put that another way .. is it a longitudinal or transverse wave . As you say experiments will tell. I think it to be longitudinal ground wave .. but its only a guess
welcome perculian .. as I say above no one as far as I know has had any luck with anything other than a brushed motor. However when it happens in front of you .. and it surly will if you persist, you will know it instantly .. and you'll never forget it. Like the song “It takes your breath away”
good luck PS Randy .. I have dotted the AV plug I suggest . On the version of your schematic ... I drew dont draw schematics with your weekend end beer I'll correct it .. best wishes D
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Last edited by Duncan; 07-21-2013 at 11:42 AM.
  #2216  
Old 07-20-2013, 11:56 PM
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Perhaps like this ?



I have put remove there Randy but to be honest the AV plug is a bit of a mystery to me ... might be better left in place .. just wondering how to stop the batteries frying and keep the wheatstone bridge closer to balanced of course..
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Last edited by Duncan; 07-21-2013 at 01:08 AM.
  #2217  
Old 07-21-2013, 01:05 AM
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nor me ... but its a good hunt

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionLightShip View Post
Two bits to add about two things:

1. Try a good Earth ground tied to the two positives between the transducer batteries.

2. If that doesn't help then move the motor to run across both source batteries (provided you can run 24 volts.

Just a thought....
Still trying to adjust to the viewpoint that the scalar is just a waste byproduct and isn't really needed here. That any motor works is proof of that.

I have no idea what we are looking for? parallel aetheric sympathetic resonance? We live in a strange dimension and universe, unbelievable actually.

I like your bridge analogy Duncan.... #2 above makes the circuit symmetrical like a bridge.

Hi Kerry .. would have helped if I had drawn it right … from my own bits and pieces so far I get this sort of feeling … what you call a scalar is what ? As far as your scope goes a very sharp spike possibly 100s of volts . IMHO it is a total reversal of current in a very short time . Caused by a very rapid open circuit … commutator action … I suppose Scalar is really a size relationship In that the pulses are identical which I would think is a must for a resonant state. The resonant state you can get to by altering any of the arms of the AC Wheatstone bridge or frequency (motor speed)
does that scalar have to be huge or necessarily generated by a DC motor … I Don't think so,
I suspect an H bridge will do the same job. It can certainly hit resonance with the battery.
I have done that, but I didn't get COP+1.. perhaps because of battery state .. or perhaps because the motor is serving yet another purpose . The purpose I had sketched on that toroid, magnetic oscillation and conversion. But I don't know! like Randy says experiments will have to tease the answers out but I haven't seen an Electrical COP +1 circuit that doesn't involve a magnetic circuit some where in the mix.
So redundant ? I think perhaps not . We have a good idea what its sending out .. but no Idea what sort of electricity or current is coming back., or how the magnetics of the motor is interacting. Like Randy says experiments , luck and clue's should get us there.
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  #2218  
Old 07-21-2013, 01:12 AM
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Duncan, in your first iteration of Randy's drawing, you had the motor connected to both sides of one of the primary batteries, and it I noticed that right away. In the latest version the motor is between a primary and a transducer, which is where I believe it has to be.

I don't know if Randy has fried ANY batteries with this setup. I think it is something he has only come up with in the last couple days, but I will leave that question to him. I think it is previous schematics that fried batteries, but I could be wrong. I have had a version running since yesterday. Good results so far. Nothing fried, not even my inverter. (fingers and toes crossed)

I am in the process of clearing my 3BGS bench to do some long term testing of this setup. That way I have access to my light bank and can see what kinds of loads I can run with it. I have two scopes, so that's three channels, and I should be able to put one on each primary and one across the transducers, if I can figure out where the best placement is. When in doubt, I call Matt. He always bails me out when I get in over my head.

Stock, off the shelf, Razor Scooter motor. When I have a "presentable" setup, will shoot some video with scope shots. Should have time for that in the morning while the wife is catching up on some work from the office.
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  #2219  
Old 07-21-2013, 01:42 AM
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wind set fair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Duncan, in your first iteration of Randy's drawing, you had the motor connected to both sides of one of the primary batteries, and it I noticed that right away. In the latest version the motor is between a primary and a transducer, which is where I believe it has to be.

I don't know if Randy has fried ANY batteries with this setup. I think it is something he has only come up with in the last couple days, but I will leave that question to him. I think it is previous schematics that fried batteries, but I could be wrong. I have had a version running since yesterday. Good results so far. Nothing fried, not even my inverter. (fingers and toes crossed)

I am in the process of clearing my 3BGS bench to do some long term testing of this setup. That way I have access to my light bank and can see what kinds of loads I can run with it. I have two scopes, so that's three channels, and I should be able to put one on each primary and one across the transducers, if I can figure out where the best placement is. When in doubt, I call Matt. He always bails me out when I get in over my head.

Stock, off the shelf, Razor Scooter motor. When I have a "presentable" setup, will shoot some video with scope shots. Should have time for that in the morning while the wife is catching up on some work from the office.
there was copious beer involved with the first iteration David I had a sharp intake of breath when I looked again also .. I was thinking series and drew parallel
I'm sure transducers shouldn't be a trans-dressers either still I guess you got the salient point anyway .. the thing is a wheatstone bridge I seem to have family heading my way for a short while which puts me out of action very annoying I'd like to give this latest incarnation a run too
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Last edited by Duncan; 07-21-2013 at 02:02 AM.
  #2220  
Old 07-21-2013, 01:52 AM
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Fried

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I don't know if Randy has fried ANY batteries with this setup. I think it is something he has only come up with in the last couple days, but I will leave that question to him.
How do we learn with out failure? Yes, I fried a couple batteries. That is why I said ONLY use bad batteries as transducers. Good ones in that position will cook. Lol. I try everything I can think of. The first time I try something new, I cover the batteries and wear goggles. Makes my wife . Most times they just leak everywhere.

Dave, glad to hear you got it running. One of my transducer batts started to creep up in voltage after about 8 hours . The other is exactly the same. I'm going to try to match them up better. When I started with them one was at .1 volt and the other at 6v. I have a different one at 1v to replace the 6, now 9v batt.
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Last edited by tachyoncatcher; 07-21-2013 at 07:12 PM.
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