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  #1771  
Old 12-27-2012, 01:06 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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I don't know, what terminology to use. I just know how to make them so I say they are generated. Its an arrangement that makes them, like the arrangement in generator.

Matt
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  #1772  
Old 12-27-2012, 03:04 PM
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Guruji,

A couple pages back, and I think even before that, I showed a schematic of the way to wind a pulse motor that Matt designed for use with the Tesla Switch project that we have been using here. It is basically two coils, with off time. We actually put two commutators on the motor (one on each end) so we could run the supply voltage through brushes on one commutator to the brushes of the commutator on the other end and change on and off times. It is an MY1016 Razor scooter motor. I'm going to work on changing my "signature" here in a few minutes and put in relevant links to YouTube videos. I will make one of that schematic folks will be able to see.

Dave
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  #1773  
Old 12-27-2012, 05:03 PM
pault pault is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
...I'm going to work on changing my "signature" here in a few minutes and put in relevant links to YouTube videos. I will make one of that schematic folks will be able to see.
Great idea

[fyi "permalink" is the way to embed links to specific posts]

Thanks
pt
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  #1774  
Old 12-28-2012, 09:55 PM
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Here are two videos on taking apart an AGM to do some experimenting. I wore GLOVES and a breathing MASK and SAFETY GOGGLES to work on this stuff and would advise you to do the same.
3BGS AGM Battery - YouTube
3BGS AGM Battery 2 - YouTube

Neither of these worked out for me.
This next one did!!
3BGS AGM Battery 3 - YouTube
I will purchase some more just like it so that all 3 of my batteries are the same.

Now I can start the process of drying out the battery and seeing if I can "create" a bad battery.

Dave
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  #1775  
Old 12-28-2012, 11:01 PM
shylo shylo is offline
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the brushes

Hi All, I finally got around to trying a few different things with the brushes in the primary motor. I cut holes in the side of the motor so I could insert wires.
I had a meter connected to the battery to watch voltage and I conneted another meter to leads that I put in contact with the commutator.
As the motor ran you could see the voltage drop, slow but steady, but when I put the other wires in some spots show quick drain, some no change ,and the best of all was at certian location the battery voltage was going up
It was hard to keep the wire in the sweet spot (just holding them by hand).
I think this is where the spikes originate ,and the right dead battery collects them.
I was only using one battery and one motor in this but did see the battery voltage going up instead of down
@Dave do you still have your original motor from the original set-up, if so could you please give the spec's?
Thanks shylo
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  #1776  
Old 12-28-2012, 11:47 PM
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These are the markings on my first motor

CIM
First Robotics
FR801-001
12 Vdc
101104

It measured 4 1/2 inches by 2 1/2 inches

Hope that helps.

Dave
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  #1777  
Old 12-29-2012, 01:43 AM
GlenWV GlenWV is offline
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Finally found the thread....

Greetings all:

I've seen the 3BGS thread mentioned on the Yahoo Bedini groups and on the new forum, but could never find it. Didn't know what it was..... Go figure.

After seeing the back and forth with Mr. UFOPolitics, I finally found the thread here and read the first 26 pages, and the last few pages. I watched the videos referenced in the early pages.

Other than the circuit diagram on page three and another diagram a bit later -FET thing?? - I can't see any of the other diagrams spoken of.....(where do I get the magical decoder ring??)

The links to the videos embedded in Dave's signature work for me. (I have some questions about how that motor is wound, but that'll wait until I come up with a couple more motors and can do another dual commutator thing.)

I've several deep cycle batteries from 100AH to 670AH, and a couple of pretty sick ones (a 17AH & a 100AH) that should work for this project. Found a couple of DC motors, too.

So, if someone would be kind enough to send me links or drawings, I'll get to it. Else, I'll go as far as I can with what I have. (Cold outside, anyway.)

Thank'ee, and Happy New Year!

glen

Tip: Find out who in your local area maintains the radio tower sites. These all have battery backup systems in them. You may be able to get used deep cycle batteries from them for free. The North Star NSB 100 FT, 100AH, sealed LAB really stinks and should make a good 'dead' battery. (The NSBs are a rebuilt jobber.)

Another place to get decent deep cycle batteries is your local electric utility service center. Most substations have batteries for controls and backup. They give them away here in my part of West Virginia. Over in Ohio, they get paid for them, so you have to pay the scrap price. (Oooops, now you know where I live! Glad that I didn't say the Charleston area!!)

It'll take some digging, but both good and bad batteries can be had.

One more thing: While dumpster diving, I have scrounged several 48VDC chargers. Some were working when removed from service. I offer these free to anyone who wants to come get one, or a couple, or three. Or to anyone who wants to pay the shipping. (No, I haven't checked yet. Figure 12x12x20 at about 50 lbs for a ball park figure.) Primary voltage is 120/240 vAC.
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  #1778  
Old 12-29-2012, 01:56 AM
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Glen,
Connect pos of bat 1 to neg of bat 2. Pos of bat 2 to pos of bad bat. Neg of bad bat to one side of motor. Other side of motor to neg of bat one. That's the basic circuit. You may have to switch connections on motor to get highest spikes out of setup. Anything I can do to help, let me know, and thanks for the info on battery sources. I will be all over that!! It will work until the bad bat begins to charge. The goal is to somehow figure out how to keep batt 3 from gaining a charge.

And welcome!! Good to see somebody else giving this a shot.
Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 12-29-2012 at 02:43 AM.
  #1779  
Old 12-29-2012, 09:21 AM
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next time you run

I wonder if one of you guys running a machine COP>1 would be so kind as to try holding a small magnet in your hand near the battery and see if you can feel a slight vibration ? I'm not sure if its motor vibration playing tricks with my limited senses
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  #1780  
Old 12-29-2012, 10:44 AM
shylo shylo is offline
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What?

Hi Dave ,you have reversed the connections? Original is +Bat#1 to motor,-to the + of Bat#2, negative of 2 to negative of #3, and positive of #3 to the other side of the motor.
shylo
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  #1781  
Old 12-29-2012, 11:58 AM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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I tried to open a small motor but seems welded
Regarding winding Turion from up to down you wound the coil yes? on one side of the armature? If I began 101 turns on bottom to up still works?
Thanks
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  #1782  
Old 12-29-2012, 01:12 PM
GlenWV GlenWV is offline
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Thank you....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Glen,
Connect pos of bat 1 to neg of bat 2. Pos of bat 2 to pos of bad bat. Neg of bad bat to one side of motor. Other side of motor to neg of bat one. That's the basic circuit. You may have to switch connections on motor to get highest spikes out of setup. Anything I can do to help, let me know, and thanks for the info on battery sources. I will be all over that!! It will work until the bad bat begins to charge. The goal is to somehow figure out how to keep batt 3 from gaining a charge.

And welcome!! Good to see somebody else giving this a shot.
Dave
Thank you very much. I'll be wiring this up this morning.

Another tip: Large battery chargers, like the LaMarche float chargers, are a good source of transformers, capacitors, diodes, wire wound resistors, and so forth. Also, check with companies who have large IT departments. The UPS systems are a great source of FETs and stuff. You might get these for hauling them off. (I do.)

glen
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  #1783  
Old 12-29-2012, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruji View Post
I tried to open a small motor but seems welded
Regarding winding Turion from up to down you wound the coil yes? on one side of the armature? If I began 101 turns on bottom to up still works?
Thanks
Winding what motor? It's hard to follow your question... Here is the winding pattern.

https://www.matthewcjones.com/powerB...impleMotor.jpg

If your not using a Razor Scooter motor maybe some one will help you out but I don't see any benefit in changing motors.

Matt

PS Motor should turn Clockwise when you hook it up.
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Last edited by Matthew Jones; 12-29-2012 at 03:16 PM.
  #1784  
Old 12-29-2012, 04:32 PM
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The 3BGS Pulse Motor Exposed!

You will find a pdf, attached to this post that explains the building of the pulse motor that a few of us have built and had success with. This is a simple project that can be done for under $50 US (EBay). If you don't mind the scrap yard, you may find everything you need there. This is specific to the MY1016 Razor Scooter Motor. Any deviations from that and you are on your own. Please don't ask. We will be happy and delighted to answer any question regarding this specific construction. This motor is Matt's design and replicated by myself and a few others. We are getting some phenomenal results. Build it, put meters on it (try) and you will see what I mean.
Good Luck with your build.
Randy
Attached Files
File Type: pdf The MY1016 3BGS Pulse motor.pdf (657.2 KB, 336 views)
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Last edited by tachyoncatcher; 12-29-2012 at 05:11 PM.
  #1785  
Old 12-29-2012, 04:32 PM
GlenWV GlenWV is offline
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Lunch time update.....

Greetings all:

Thank ya'll again for letting me join the fun. I appreciate it.

I followed Dave's insturctions using 2 ea. 6 volt/200AH batteries seriesed for B1 and B2. A 12 volt/100AH North Star was used as the bad battery.

The North Star recovered to display an apparant voltage of 5.18 after being shorted with a piece of #2 welding cable. The original voltage was a shade over 7 vdc. B1 measured 11.71 vdc. B2 measured 11.35 vdc. B1 & B2 were measured after being used to test a big FET bank on a UFO coil. (Didn't play very well. Too much current into a 1 ohm coil. Did melt a bit of insulation, though.

The motor is permanent magnet type, 0.4 hp @ 90 vdc. It is from a treadmill and has a heavy belt-pulley/flywheel on the shaft. (Does this qualify as enough load??)

I hooked her up and off she went!! Surprised me! So I jumped up and looked all over the basement for something to use as a 12 volt load. Came up with one of those high candle power lights that you can hang on your vehicle. Placed that over the outputs on the bad battery and boy did she squeal. Sounded like rusty hinges in the dead of night. The light never got bright, only an orange glow which eased on and then eased off.

That thing would screach and the motor would speed up and slow down. The voltage was climbing a bit on the bad battery (B3), so I scrambeld and hooked up a Bedini wheel. That thing is 5 strands of 22 gauge wire @ 200 feet in length. That slowed the B3 charge a bit and is putting out 18 vdc to the charge bank.

'bout that time there was stomping up above, so I knew that it was time to go upstairs and explain the nasty, burnt rubber smell and maybe have some lunch.

Thanks again, this is pretty fun!!

glen
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  #1786  
Old 12-30-2012, 01:17 AM
GlenWV GlenWV is offline
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Evening update....

Greetings all:

Well, the motor is still running and turning the flywheel.

I've hung about everything except the kitchen sink on the bad battery and have gotten the voltage down from 5.18 to 2.14 vdc.

Attached to the bad battery is: a 1.5 hp 100vdc motor which is turning ever so slowly, the 5 strand Bedini SG which has raised a 3kAH battery bank 0,5 volts today, a 120 vac drill with the trigger locked, 1 big corn cob resistor, 2ea. 1 ohm field coils, 1 dual strand UFO coil, 2 ea. 1.5 ohm field coils, several 25 watt resistors of various sizes, and the big 117 strand, 80 pound Bedini SG coil.

When I grasp the flywheel to slow it down, the voltage on the bad battery goes up.

B1 bank voltage has dropped from 11.71 to 11.4, while B2 bank has dropped from 11.35 to 11.17.

It looks like the system likes inductance rather than resistance to lower the voltage on the bad battery. I'm wondering if this thing will power a UFO coil pulsing the output into a battery bank. We'll see.

There's a 50 amp, 3 phase transformer sitting on the bench, so I may hook that rascal up and see what happens.... I may grab the other dc motor and make another setup.

These are my observations to date. I hope they prove helpful. Please feel free to suggest anything that I may try that would assist the efforts of the group.

glen
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  #1787  
Old 12-30-2012, 02:11 AM
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Glen,
If your runs are too long, your primaries will never recover. Also. If the motor started right away on the initial setup, you probably won't have any recovery anyway because batt 3 was not a good "bad battery" for this setup.

No time for more comments now, but will get back to you tomorrow.

Dave
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  #1788  
Old 12-30-2012, 08:56 AM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Winding what motor? It's hard to follow your question... Here is the winding pattern.

https://www.matthewcjones.com/powerB...impleMotor.jpg

If your not using a Razor Scooter motor maybe some one will help you out but I don't see any benefit in changing motors.

Matt

PS Motor should turn Clockwise when you hook it up.
So any motor will charge you're saying? even without modification? I tried with a small motor with no success; maybe my primaries were not charged cause motor was turning slow.
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  #1789  
Old 12-30-2012, 10:56 AM
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Any motor should work but we have had better luck with the modified motor.

Matt
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  #1790  
Old 12-30-2012, 04:47 PM
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Matt's right, any motor will work but the modified motor works better!
BUT REMEMBER, direction of rotation of the motor makes a HUGE difference, so see which direction of rotation produces the best (highest voltage) spikes for you.

Dave

P.S. Saw this on Netflix and couldn't resist posting it here:

Breakout 1998 PG rating 120 minutes
This family adventure stars Robert Carradine as Zack, an inventor who's come up with an alternative energy solution -- an environmentally friendly super-battery capable of powering a car. But a major oil company, determined to sabotage Zack's project, sends thugs to kidnap Zack's son Joe (J. Evan Bonifant) and his two pals -- unaware that Joe is also a technical whiz and the leader in a trio of feisty karate kids. James Hong costars.


Those Hollywood guys sure have an imagination. Where do they come UP with this stuff!
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Last edited by Turion; 12-30-2012 at 05:07 PM.
  #1791  
Old 12-30-2012, 06:35 PM
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Glen,
I know I've talked about this in the past, but let me stress the importance of two things again, because I WANT you to be successful.

1. If the motor starts up when you first connect your circuit, your third battery won't work in this setup. You will NEVER see the primaries increase in voltage while running a load. Never. At least NOT with the basic circuit I have shown here. You might come up with some addition that makes that happen and if you do, PLEASE share! LOL

2.When you find a battery that will allow the motor to come on after a few minutes of just sitting there not running while the voltage on that battery drops from 24 (with 2 primaries) to about 18, you MUST have a load on the motor of some kind. Then you add SMALL LOADS to battery 3 to balance it with the load on the motor and get "IN THE ZONE." If you are not "in the zone" your primaries are going to go down, and they will go down until you DO get 'in the zone. Unless you are 'in the zone" the primaries will not increase in voltage (if you are one of the few lucky ones to see this because besides being in the zone, you were also able to keep batt 3 from charging)

3. How to get in the zone
When it starts to run, put a load of some kind on the motor. When you add a small load to battery 3 the motor will speed up. Wait about five minutes. If the motor speeds up A SECOND TIME you are in the zone. If it does not speed up a second time, continue to add small loads to battery 3 using this "add and wait" process until you get the two balanced (the motor speeds up that second time after adding a load to battery 3). Now, if you are very lucky, the voltage on batt 3 won't go up. If you observe it going up, (which means primary batteries are still discharging) you are going to have to add more load to the motor and start the balancing process all over again. And here's the rub. The second load you add to the motor may not be BIG enough to put the two out of balance, so it may still be IN BALANCE and you have no way of KNOWING this, so you add a small load to batt three which takes it OUT of balance IN THE WRONG DIRECTION, and now, no mater how many small loads you add to battery 3, you can never get the motor to speed up that second time.

Meanwhile your primaries are dropping like rocks because you are running the system with an unbalanced load.

To balance this thing and see charging on the primaries takes a lot of time and effort, and a whole lot of patience. Not very many people have seen it through persistence. Most have just stumbled across it by luck. And until you DO see it you may never believe this thing is for real. But once you HAVE seen it, well...it's pretty hard to forget.

I don't know if I have ever explained this part in this much detail, but i went through these basic steps in post #1. They are there for a reason. I want folks to be successful at this.

My thoughts on this...It would seem to me that in order to keep battery 3 from charging the load you end up with connected to it MUST be more than what is supplied to it by the two primary batteries. So even if you have the load balanced with the motor, if it is lower than what is supplied to battery 3 by the primaries, batt 3 will begin to charge and the system won't work. So we have to keep adding loads to the motor and balancing and at SOME POINT we will have a load that is balanced with the motor that is high enough in energy draw to prevent batt 3 from charging, and it MIGHT be a sustainable system. I hadn't tought of this until just now, but I don't know why that wouldn't work.

Very best of luck.

Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 12-30-2012 at 06:48 PM.
  #1792  
Old 12-30-2012, 09:02 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Matt's right, any motor will work but the modified motor works better!
BUT REMEMBER, direction of rotation of the motor makes a HUGE difference, so see which direction of rotation produces the best (highest voltage) spikes for you.

Dave

P.S. Saw this on Netflix and couldn't resist posting it here:

Breakout 1998 PG rating 120 minutes
This family adventure stars Robert Carradine as Zack, an inventor who's come up with an alternative energy solution -- an environmentally friendly super-battery capable of powering a car. But a major oil company, determined to sabotage Zack's project, sends thugs to kidnap Zack's son Joe (J. Evan Bonifant) and his two pals -- unaware that Joe is also a technical whiz and the leader in a trio of feisty karate kids. James Hong costars.


Those Hollywood guys sure have an imagination. Where do they come UP with this stuff!
Ok thanks Turion for those who don't have scope is there a way to know for best spikes regarding motor rotation? Maybe makes bigger sound?
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  #1793  
Old 12-30-2012, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Duncan,
Got that setup up and running right now. Will let it go for thirty minutes and check voltages on primaries. I'm running a second motor as a generator as load on the motor. Total voltage on my bank of bad batteries (added at rest) is around 12 volts and 36 volts in the primary stack. I did have to short across the series of bad batteries (continuous short) to get the motor to run, so who knows what will happen. Will keep you posted.

EDIT:
After a 30 minute run and some rest time my primaries are up .05 above where they started. I ran no loads on anything except the second motor as a load.

Dave
Dave, on your bank of bad batteries wired in series, is there some sort of break between the bad bank and the good/primary bank wired in series? I suppose the break is that the bad bank is wired backwards to the good bank, right?

Kinda confusing...

good batteries: -+-+-+ (motor)
bad batteries: +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
and you take the leading +of the bad and hook it to the motor, and the neg from the bad and the good connect, right?

Ok, now go back to the simple method of just 3 batteries. The good batteries (1 and 2) are wired in series, to make a bank, and then that bank is wired in parallel with B3, with a motor in between. Is that correct?

Without the motor, do the batteries equalize (assuming that B1 and B2 act as one battery of 2X voltage)?

I just got in from Christmas vacation, and I discovered a low battery on my truck (woo hoo!), so I'm hoping to play with some things this week once the weather gets better. I have a whole lot of weak 12 V SLAs aroud here, and a few good ones. I think I counted at least 8 that won't charge, so maybe I can find at least one out of the 8 that will work as batt 3. If not, I will wire them as a bank of bad ones like you did.
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  #1794  
Old 12-30-2012, 10:41 PM
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velacreations,

If you have a bank of good batteries wired in series, you always end up with one "+" and one "-" end. If you have one bad battery (or a bunch in series to use as one bad battery) you end up with one "+" and one "-" end. Connect the motor between the two "-" ends and connect the two "+" ends together.
This is splitting the negatives (with the motor)

You can ALSO (alternately) split the positives (with the motor) and connect the two "-" ends together. That is the way my ORIGINAL setup was wired. We haven't seen that it makes any difference whether you split the positives or the negatives.

My setup now is splitting the negatives.
I have noticed that when my motor is connected the way that produces higher spikes it rotates a little faster. with the shaft sticking out of the motor pointed directly at me, it is rotating clockwise. I have noticed that it appears to be the same with every motor I have tried, but is VERY easy to tell with the rewired razor scooter motor in a three battery setup. Hope that helps.

You don't need a scope to see the higher spikes. If you buy a cheap $4.00 meter from harbor freight and connect it to the batteries, you will see it with that.

Dave
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  #1795  
Old 12-30-2012, 11:00 PM
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velacreations,

If you have a bank of good batteries wired in series, you always end up with one "+" and one "-" end. If you have one bad battery (or a bunch in series to use as one bad battery) you end up with one "+" and one "-" end. Connect the motor between the two "-" ends and connect the two "+" ends together.
This is splitting the negatives (with the motor)

You can ALSO (alternately) split the positives (with the motor) and connect the two "-" ends together. That is the way my ORIGINAL setup was wired. We haven't seen that it makes any difference whether you split the positives or the negatives.

My setup now is splitting the negatives.
I have noticed that when my motor is connected the way that produces higher spikes it rotates a little faster. with the shaft sticking out of the motor pointed directly at me, it is rotating clockwise. I have noticed that it appears to be the same with every motor I have tried, but is VERY easy to tell with the rewired razor scooter motor in a three battery setup. Hope that helps.

You don't need a scope to see the higher spikes. If you buy a cheap $4.00 meter from harbor freight and connect it to the batteries, you will see it with that.

Check out a device running on waves out of the air...no power required
How to Make a Foxhole Radio - YouTube
Dave
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  #1796  
Old 12-30-2012, 11:04 PM
velacreations velacreations is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
velacreations,

If you have a bank of good batteries wired in series, you always end up with one "+" and one "-" end. If you have one bad battery (or a bunch in series to use as one bad battery) you end up with one "+" and one "-" end. Connect the motor between the two "-" ends and connect the two "+" ends together.
This is splitting the negatives (with the motor)

You can ALSO (alternately) split the positives (with the motor) and connect the two "-" ends together. That is the way my ORIGINAL setup was wired. We haven't seen that it makes any difference whether you split the positives or the negatives.

My setup now is splitting the negatives.
I have noticed that when my motor is connected the way that produces higher spikes it rotates a little faster. with the shaft sticking out of the motor pointed directly at me, it is rotating clockwise. I have noticed that it appears to be the same with every motor I have tried, but is VERY easy to tell with the rewired razor scooter motor in a three battery setup. Hope that helps.

You don't need a scope to see the higher spikes. If you buy a cheap $4.00 meter from harbor freight and connect it to the batteries, you will see it with that.

Dave
ok, yeah, that is how I pictured it in my mind. So, there is a bank of good batts wired in series and then a bad batt (or a bank of bads) wired in parallel with the good bank. The motor goes in between the parallel line (either + or -).

Ok, got it!

I've actually had a similar setup before with a bank of batteries in a solar system. The individual batteries or cells are wired in series (usually 2 x 6 volt batts to make a 12 volt), then the series pairs wired in parallel (to increase amp hour capacity).

When a cell or battery goes bad, it drains the voltage of the whole parallel bank. Trying to isolate the bad one can be tricky, because of the wiring setup. I've seen it where a series pair has one battery at over 6 volts, like 8 volts, and another at 4 or less to give the impression that the pair is at 12 volts. One is overcharged, the other is not receiving a charge.

This isn't really valuable information to the topic, but it shows where a primary good wired with a bad will show the voltage of the good go up, even beyond the 6 volts full charge. This doesn't mean that good battery is actually charged at that level (when you disconnect and let it rest, it drops down to 6). I wonder if it is a similar effect as what we are seeing here with the 3GBS?
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  #1797  
Old 12-30-2012, 11:19 PM
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Turion Turion is online now
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I measure my batteries at rest and under load before I start. Then I measure them at rest and under load after resting for 24 hours after a run. My primaries have gone up as much as 1.5 volts while running loads and running the motor. I know Matt has never seen his primaries go up, but he has seen them recover to starting voltage after resting. So have Carroll, Luthor, and several others. Only a few lucky suckers have seen the increases.

Before even starting this post I ran my setup for several weeks, only 30 minutes at a time, with an hour off for rest in between, and at the end of that time my primaries were above where they started. I also discharged my battery down to 12.2 volts using a 1 amp load to make sure it still held the proper amount of power (not just voltage) and had not sacraficed that during the experiment. That's when I decided it was worth starting this whole thing up again and going through having folks tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

I hope you get to see what we've seen, because you will be hooked.

Dave
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  #1798  
Old 12-30-2012, 11:27 PM
velacreations velacreations is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Check out a device running on waves out of the air...no power required
How to Make a Foxhole Radio - YouTube
Dave
yeah, really low power requirement...
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  #1799  
Old 12-31-2012, 12:02 AM
GlenWV GlenWV is offline
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Thank you....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Glen,
I know I've talked about this in the past, but let me stress the importance of two things again, because I WANT you to be successful.

1. If the motor starts up when you first connect your circuit, your third battery won't work in this setup. You will NEVER see the primaries increase in voltage while running a load. Never. At least NOT with the basic circuit I have shown here. You might come up with some addition that makes that happen and if you do, PLEASE share! LOL

2.When you find a battery that will allow the motor to come on after a few minutes of just sitting there not running while the voltage on that battery drops from 24 (with 2 primaries) to about 18, you MUST have a load on the motor of some kind. Then you add SMALL LOADS to battery 3 to balance it with the load on the motor and get "IN THE ZONE." If you are not "in the zone" your primaries are going to go down, and they will go down until you DO get 'in the zone. Unless you are 'in the zone" the primaries will not increase in voltage (if you are one of the few lucky ones to see this because besides being in the zone, you were also able to keep batt 3 from charging)

3. How to get in the zone
When it starts to run, put a load of some kind on the motor. When you add a small load to battery 3 the motor will speed up. Wait about five minutes. If the motor speeds up A SECOND TIME you are in the zone. If it does not speed up a second time, continue to add small loads to battery 3 using this "add and wait" process until you get the two balanced (the motor speeds up that second time after adding a load to battery 3). Now, if you are very lucky, the voltage on batt 3 won't go up. If you observe it going up, (which means primary batteries are still discharging) you are going to have to add more load to the motor and start the balancing process all over again. And here's the rub. The second load you add to the motor may not be BIG enough to put the two out of balance, so it may still be IN BALANCE and you have no way of KNOWING this, so you add a small load to batt three which takes it OUT of balance IN THE WRONG DIRECTION, and now, no mater how many small loads you add to battery 3, you can never get the motor to speed up that second time.

Meanwhile your primaries are dropping like rocks because you are running the system with an unbalanced load.

To balance this thing and see charging on the primaries takes a lot of time and effort, and a whole lot of patience. Not very many people have seen it through persistence. Most have just stumbled across it by luck. And until you DO see it you may never believe this thing is for real. But once you HAVE seen it, well...it's pretty hard to forget.

I don't know if I have ever explained this part in this much detail, but i went through these basic steps in post #1. They are there for a reason. I want folks to be successful at this.

My thoughts on this...It would seem to me that in order to keep battery 3 from charging the load you end up with connected to it MUST be more than what is supplied to it by the two primary batteries. So even if you have the load balanced with the motor, if it is lower than what is supplied to battery 3 by the primaries, batt 3 will begin to charge and the system won't work. So we have to keep adding loads to the motor and balancing and at SOME POINT we will have a load that is balanced with the motor that is high enough in energy draw to prevent batt 3 from charging, and it MIGHT be a sustainable system. I hadn't tought of this until just now, but I don't know why that wouldn't work.

Very best of luck.

Dave

Greetings Dave:

Thank you for taking the time to respond and giving directions. I appreciate it.

I did read your first post and that's pretty much what caught me. I'll go back and print it off tomorrow, along with your last post.

Today, I removed the North Star battery from the circuit and replaced it with a bad 17AH LAB. It has been connected for about 3 hours and hasn't started to run. Reckon I'd best go back down stairs and unhook the source batteries and the motor.

The motor has a heavy flywheel on it for the drive belt on a treadmill. I'm hoping that's enough load. Else, I'll have to come up with some friction.

The other motor, 1.5hp @ 100 vdc, may be a better candidate for this process. We'll make another setup tomorrow or Tuesday and see how she plays.

At some point, I'll get this thing to play and will share anything that I come up with. (Tain't smart, but am peristant.)

Will wind a motor MJ style, too.

Have a great evening forks!!

glen
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  #1800  
Old 12-31-2012, 01:16 AM
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GlenWV,
I would hang on to that one that never let your motor start. It's what we've been looking for to use in the battery modification experiments we've got going. AND, you could just leave it connected for as long as you can stand to do so. Eventually the motor might come on. It might take overnight though.

Dave
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