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  #1741  
Old 12-23-2012, 11:16 PM
shylo shylo is offline
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still trying

Hi Dave,
I've been building a new mag rotor ,I'm planning to attach to the primary motor, driven with the 3BGS
And as you know ,the more I load the dead battery , the faster the primary runs.
The problem I'm having is I'm using lead acid batteries.
Also the motor is not pulsed.
Are these 2 of the crucial factors??

When you can run over 300watts of draw,(and that doesn't include the primary) for ~6-8 hours and only lose hundreds of a volt on the charged batteries

Thanks for your efforts and sharing ,It's people like you that make this world worth saving.
shylo
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  #1742  
Old 12-24-2012, 12:12 AM
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Shylo,
My original setup used a standard motor and AGM batteries. I have had setups work with standard motors, but not for long... Only hours. The only long term setup I have been able to get to work without decreasing the voltage on the primaries has been with a pulsed motor and AGM batteries. You might try the one ohm coil across battery 3 and see what that does for you.

Dave
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  #1743  
Old 12-24-2012, 12:05 PM
harctan harctan is offline
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I found 2 bad batteries (the big ones in the first picture). One rested at 4v and the other at 7v but would go fast to zero when loaded. I only have a small 13.2V motor for now. It would start running immediately. I tried connecting the motor between the positives and between the negatives. I also left them shorted out overnight and tried again the next day but it was the same. Then I opened the plug of one battery and at first it looked like the cotton-looking stuff that Matt said would be in a AMG, but in the photo I took (second picture) it looks more like gell. From what I have understood so far I should probably not bother with those batteries and look for others. Maybe I'm missing something , like the motor is just too small to get an accurate indication or something else?
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File Type: jpg batt.jpg (196.6 KB, 26 views)
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  #1744  
Old 12-24-2012, 12:39 PM
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This forum is messed up here latly just double posted for no reason.
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Last edited by Matthew Jones; 12-24-2012 at 12:42 PM.
  #1745  
Old 12-24-2012, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harctan View Post
I found 2 bad batteries (the big ones in the first picture). One rested at 4v and the other at 7v but would go fast to zero when loaded. I only have a small 13.2V motor for now. It would start running immediately. I tried connecting the motor between the positives and between the negatives. I also left them shorted out overnight and tried again the next day but it was the same. Then I opened the plug of one battery and at first it looked like the cotton-looking stuff that Matt said would be in a AMG, but in the photo I took (second picture) it looks more like gell. From what I have understood so far I should probably not bother with those batteries and look for others. Maybe I'm missing something , like the motor is just too small to get an accurate indication or something else?
You can try the Gell we haven't tried a confirmed Gell it may work as well.

To get the motor start put a small 12 volt bulb or a 1 ohm coil or something across batt3 to get it running. Put the motor between the negatives for starters anyway.

Matt
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  #1746  
Old 12-24-2012, 03:38 PM
harctan harctan is offline
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Let me clarify a little more. The motor starts as soon as i connect it. I don't have to put any load to batt3 to get it started, although it has no problem starting this way also. On the very first post Dave said that if the motor starts immediately then the battery is not suitable. When I connect it the voltage jumps to 12-13V and slowly stabilizes to 8-9V, which is not the behaviour we are looking for, if I've understood correctly. Whether I put the motor between positives or negatives makes no difference on this.
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  #1747  
Old 12-24-2012, 04:07 PM
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harctan,
The only problem with the batteries you have is that the effect we are looking for probably won't last very long, if at ALL. The "dead-er" the battery, the longer the effect will last. When you connect up the setup and it DOESN'T start up, this means you have a "better" battery to see the effect before the 3rd battery starts getting charged and the effect goes away. Now that doesn't mean you WON"T see it, but I was trying to make SURE folks had a setup that would show them what I wanted them to see, because if they tried it and saw NOTHING, they would think I was full of crap and give up on it. I just want to make it clear to you that with the batteries you are using you may see NOTHING. But then if that's a gel cell, we have no idea WHAT you will see. I do know that by putting a one ohm coil across battery three you may have a better chance of it working for you, and we want you to be successful. So give it a try. NUT if you do runs of over 30 minutes, your primaries may NOT recover. It could take up to 24 hours for them to recover from a 30 minute run. It just depends on how "good" your bad battery is.

Dave
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  #1748  
Old 12-24-2012, 04:29 PM
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I had it running for 2 hours yesterday with a small load on the motor and on batt3. The primaries were drawn down ~0.3V each and after a day they didn't recover. Batt3 took a bit of charge which I drained. I will try to get my hands on more batteries and a bigger motor but until then I will try again with what I have. The 1 Ohm coil, is it just a piece of wire of 1 Ohm looped around and connected across the terminals of batt3 as a load? If it is discussed somewhere please just point me to the page more or less. I can also pulse the motor with a 555 timer. Any suggestions on the frequency and for how long to let it run?

Peter
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  #1749  
Old 12-24-2012, 04:50 PM
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For my one ohm coil that is working, I used 200 feet of #20 AWG wrapped around a 3/4 inch core of welding rods.

If you are going to pulse with a 555, try a 50% duty cycle to start. Decrease the off time from there.

With the battery 3 you have, I wouldn't run it more than 30-45 minutes, because chances are it WON"T recover with that battery. Also, if you have a meter, look at the spikes that are hitting your batteries and then switch the wires on your motor. USUALLY you will get MUCH higher spikes if your motor is running in a clockwise direction (with the shaft of the motor pointed straight at you) but you will definitely see a major difference when you switch the wires and you want the highest spikes you can get. I will get 18 volt spikes one direction and over a 1000 volts the other direction.

Dave
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  #1750  
Old 12-24-2012, 05:26 PM
harctan harctan is offline
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I don't have any #20 wire right now, but I have a couple of bifilar coils with smaller gauge wire at about 3 Ohms. I only have a small scope (DSO Nano v2 [TOL131B2P] - $89.00 : Seeed Studio Bazaar, Boost ideas, extend the reach) which I just got and I'm not sure if it would be able to show me any spikes. Also I'm reluctant to use it for HV spikes. I'm currently recharging the primaries so I'll do a 30min run tomorrow.
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  #1751  
Old 12-24-2012, 06:30 PM
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You don't need a scope to see the spikes. A digital volt meter will do it. An analogue meter will give you an average, but the spikes freak out the digital meter and you will see it jumping all over the place as those high voltage spikes go through it.

Dave
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  #1752  
Old 12-25-2012, 06:28 PM
harctan harctan is offline
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I did a 30min run today. I made a ~1ohm coil with #26 wire and 1/2 intch welding rods core which I had connected across batt3. The motor was connected between the negatives, was spinning clockwise and was pulsed by a 555 timer at about 125Hz and 60% duty cycle. Resting voltages for batteries 1,2,3 were 12.90V, 12.82V, 3.05V respectively. Batt3 was shorted out up to 45min before the test run and would probably go to more than 4V had I let it rest longer. During the run my digital multimeter did not show any rapid fluctuations in voltage. The primaries were steadily going down. I hooked my scope across the motor and could see spikes of 60-80V as in the picture below. After 30min voltages under load were 12.64V, 12.57V, 0.06V. It's been 4 hours now and the primaries are stable for a long time at 12.87V and 12.78V while batt3 has slowly climbed to 4.21V
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  #1753  
Old 12-26-2012, 02:49 AM
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Would the setup start without batt 3 being shorted by the coil? If it would, then batt 3 is probably not going to work for you, unfortunately. If you never did that test, you would need to short out batt 3 and let it set for a couple days before trying it.
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  #1754  
Old 12-26-2012, 09:28 AM
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a new era, a new view,

I would like to point out to all researchers and readers of this thread that its very near an world changing conclusion.... That’s my hope
I would like to draw your attention to what I suspect may be happening and being advanced here with a succession of COP>1 devices that work, Not very well because they are “not tuned”
loading a motor obviously alters speed and hence frequency. for in the zone read "tuned"
First consider these systems here's Ossie's of course knowing what we now know of batteries this becomes possible and viable.
http://www.fluxite.com/WorkingRadiantEnergy.pdf
Here's a radio Ham system used for charging batteries since the 1930s
http://www4.zetatalk.com/docs/Batter...arger_2006.pdf
Here's a modern version
Free electricity - YouTube
So not very much power available and so you all ignore the systems …. well you do don’t you?
Wrong move The powers available you haven't tuned the circuit or the antenna to it so you can't expect much really can you?
What might an antenna look like that receives free energy ? Well I guess anything can be tuned I've transmitted using a wire fence as an antenna before now . But here's Henry Morays antenna

here's Tesla's

http://www.google.co.uk/url?source=i...rjV0IRcqQfplvQ

Here's yours

So for an antenna to work any radio ham will tell you it needs to be resonant to a wave or part there of. Sooo Is it possible for a Lead Acid battery (Oops sorry what once was a lead acid battery) to be resonant ? Here I try to demonstrate that it is the case
The video Initially was never intended for open forum and so there isn’t much Hollywood about this whilst I slurp my Christmas wine still....
I'm actually doing this LC Resonance Oscilloscope Demo - YouTube but with only the battery in circuit . I'm sure you'll quickly get the gist of what I posit here and of course the significance.
3bs - YouTube of course what I am demonstrating here needs duplication and chemical explanation
There are conditions of that battery that are obviously key, At the moment I wait for the permission of a third party who has elected not to appear on this thread, before I can advance that area .
However I would think there's enough food for thought here already … isn’t there ?
We enter a new age .. Happy New era
Best wishes everybody
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  #1755  
Old 12-26-2012, 09:35 AM
harctan harctan is offline
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Yes, the motor would start immediately whether the battery was unloaded, slightly loaded or shorted with the coil. I had both batteries shorted for two nights in a row but the voltage would eventually go back to around 4.5V. I didn't expect them to work since they're probably gell cells but it was worth a try. Tomorrow I'll go searching for more batteries, maybe I'll get luckier.
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  #1756  
Old 12-26-2012, 10:27 AM
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The resonant battery

Internet research in support of Lead acid cells being resonant and hence a very strong candidate for antenna action
http://www.alton-moore.net/graphics/desulfator.pdf
Battery Desulfator (with resonant frequency detector and locker) - All About Circuits Forum

Its a pity this guy didn't continue with his circuit to follow the resonant curve of this battery it would have probably matched the antenna tuning I am suggesting. Still at least it does confirm that a sulphated Lead acid battery is /or can be ... resonant
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  #1757  
Old 12-26-2012, 03:49 PM
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Just got this in the mail from the same individual that posted the circuit some of you tried.:

I have been trying to figure out why my new circuits (many types) have been showing amazing results mentioned in my prior email. They are doing what I stated... but I am really wondering if it has more to do with the condition of the batteries than the circuit. I utilize the Bedini charger and have cycled them dozens of times. I really do believe that it does change how the battery "works."

If the negative resistor effect is at play... anything that triggers that pre-existing condition in the battery could self generate, as long as the circuit doesn't break down the formations that cause it to occur.

I am in the process of testing many different battery types... once that is complete, I should have an answer to the ongoing mystery.

The last three or four set ups that I have tested have "all" shown rising voltages in batteries as the motors continue to run (continuous for days).

There must be a reason why Bedini keeps making "lead acid" batteries part of his experimental set ups (most not all).


I confirmed with him that he has been using lead acid batteries, not AGM, and have asked if he had a chance to check that circuit he posted. As soon as I get a reply to that question I will post it.

Dave
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  #1758  
Old 12-26-2012, 07:52 PM
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Thanks for checking on this, Dave, and for all your hard work.
Quote:
"I confirmed with him that he has been using lead acid batteries, not AGM, and have asked if he had a chance to check that circuit he posted. As soon as I get a reply to that question I will post it.

Dave"
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  #1759  
Old 12-26-2012, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
Internet research in support of Lead acid cells being resonant and hence a very strong candidate for antenna action
...
It would seem that the antenna theory can be "easily" tested.

As soon as someone gets the 3bgs into the zone, put a Farraday cage around the system or B3 (e.g. a metal box, cardboard box covered in foil, etc).

If the B3 is acting as an antenna, a Farraday cage should stop the effect.

pt
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  #1760  
Old 12-26-2012, 08:48 PM
pault pault is offline
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meta suggestion

I can only visit this thread occassionally. It would be nice if there were a way to pick up where I left off reading.

It would be nice if a summary of the most recent "advances" / ckt could be updated in a known location (e.g. the first post on page 1). Forum software is OK for conversations, but doesn't work very well as a reference.

if I'm not using the forum features fully, please educate me.

thanks
pt
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  #1761  
Old 12-26-2012, 09:15 PM
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2 runs with universal motor

I've been characterizing a small universal motor. 120V, about the size of a power hand drill motor. No P.M. 12 poles, 2 stator windings. Thought I'd give it a shot in a 3bgs configuration before I chop it for another project.

B1 and B2 are identical 7Ah motorcycle SLA's. B3 is an old (approx 15yr) SLAB (I think) physically twice as big as B1. Can't be charged with a wall wart.

The motor doesn't run at 12VDC, but does resist being turned CW, and is easily turned in CCW. It does run CCW at 24VDC and 36VDC.

I've attached the readings.

The Dec. 24 readings look boring - B1 and B2 slowly discharge. The voltage acroos B3 is high at the beginning and drops slowly over a 9 hour run (i.e. it looks like B3 is desulfating). The voltage across the motor slowly climbed from 3.78V to 5.25V. The motor never started. B1 took a nose-dive to 9V and I stopped the run.

After recharging both B1 and B2 I did another run - Dec 26 (approx. 2am).

After starting out "boring", the voltage across the motor suddenly dropped to 0.000VDC (scope showed flatline) and the voltage across B3 dropped from 21.2VDC to 5.94VDC. Over the next half hour, B1 and B2 slowly rose (but did not attain the original resting voltage) and the voltage across B3 slowly dropped. I left it running overnight and in the morning it was back to "boring". The motor never started.

[Slowly rising voltages on B1 and B2 can be - possibly - explained by "removing the load", i.e. when you suck current from a battery, then reduce the current draw, the battery will "recover" slowly.]

The 2am run appears to violate Kirchoff - the voltages don't sum. B1+B2 are at approx 25V, B3 is at 5V (in the opposite direction), yet, there's 0V across the motor.

[Prof. Walter Lewin shows a demo where Kirchoff doesn't hold, starting at the 37 minute mark of MIT8.02 Lec 16, but I'm not sure it applies here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3eI4SVDyME ]

pt

ps. [if I understand correctly, some AM stations boost their power at night, so the interesting results at 2am might be consistent with the antenna theory...]
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File Type: pdf runs.pdf (18.1 KB, 20 views)
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Last edited by pault; 12-26-2012 at 09:30 PM. Reason: additonal thought
  #1762  
Old 12-26-2012, 10:00 PM
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Thanks for the idea but No

Quote:
Originally Posted by pault View Post
It would seem that the antenna theory can be "easily" tested.

As soon as someone gets the 3bgs into the zone, put a Farraday cage around the system or B3 (e.g. a metal box, cardboard box covered in foil, etc).

If the B3 is acting as an antenna, a Farraday cage should stop the effect.

pt
Hi Thanks for your observation and suggestion however it is quite useless I’m afraid you see I said it was a Stochastic resonant signal. That is of course a scalar wave as described in this lecture given to the IEEE the Faraday cage has no effect on the Scalar wave what so ever and as for the street lights wait till you get one running It'll run the street lights! nevermind an AM radio station 20110324185908 (3).mpg - YouTube
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Last edited by Duncan; 12-26-2012 at 10:25 PM.
  #1763  
Old 12-26-2012, 10:51 PM
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The scalars are generated by the motor. So a Faraday Cage will NOT block the signal.

Matt
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Last edited by Matthew Jones; 12-26-2012 at 10:52 PM. Reason: Forgot "NOT"
  #1764  
Old 12-27-2012, 01:42 AM
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Today I took a look at the bad batteries I had wired in series for the experiment I posted the other day where my primaries went up in voltage. Of the seven bad batteries I had in series, two went up in voltage and 5 went down in voltage. The two that went up were not on one end or the other, or even in the middle, so it was just random. Today I used the two that went down as my bad battery by connecting them in series. At the end of a 30 minute run my primaries were down and the voltage on both bad batteries was interesting. The second battery in the series, the one with its negative connected to the motor, switched polarity. It has since switched back, so I am going to do another run and film it and see if it does the same thing. This pretty much supports what Matt has been saying about the polarities flipping.

Dave
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  #1765  
Old 12-27-2012, 03:26 AM
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Pulse Motor Scoped

Here's a shot of my pulse motor in the 3BGS. I find it interesting the spike goes off the scale in both directions.
Randy
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  #1766  
Old 12-27-2012, 03:56 AM
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Thats a Scalar. Thats why when you see the meter jumping hundreds of volts at a time thats why. Your not going to find that in just any old motor from outer space mind you, just my slow little simple motor. Now tell us why that shows up?

Matt
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  #1767  
Old 12-27-2012, 04:32 AM
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Yes!

A scalar. We have seen them on the north/positive side of the Bedini tech. But, never on both sides of the scale like this. Matt, this motor is a wonder. I also find the ripples before the coil disconnect a curiosity. As if the coil is energized to the point of resonance.
Randy
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  #1768  
Old 12-27-2012, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
A scalar. We have seen them on the north/positive side of the Bedini tech. But, never on both sides of the scale like this. Matt, this motor is a wonder. I also find the ripples before the coil disconnect a curiosity. As if the coil is energized to the point of resonance.
Randy
The scalar is not the same as a transient. Transients are formed from particle compression around the magnetic field. So.. the mag field inflates out and around the coil. All the particles around that coil are attracted to the field and they compress each other into a dense mass. Both field expanding and the particle racing in. This mass then collapses following the field into the coil and cutting flux of coil, resulting in charge.

A scalar is caused from compression in iron not in the environment. Think about the motor. It has coils of the same polarity pointing in opposite direction. Every time any of the coils are fired you get an opposing force. The commutator runs out before anything can get released (unless you use the timing circuit). Now we have the energy stored in the iron. Once the commutator opens back up the power in the coils goes opposite. This pushes the stored energy in the iron out in every direction.

The energy coming out has no polarity. It has No time factor and what you are able to see on the scope has no current. It grows through resistance (Not a resistor though). And you cannot filter it in half. But caps love them.

So the trick is make as many as you can every second, and the apparatus that can handle the task. Then imagine what your scope trace looks like.

At 1 megahertz your looking at at or around 7k x more out than in. But you need a better scope to see it.

Oh ya... How much power is going into that motor and how much is in that little spike??

Matt
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Last edited by Matthew Jones; 12-27-2012 at 05:23 AM.
  #1769  
Old 12-27-2012, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
The scalars are generated by the motor. So a Faraday Cage will NOT block the signal.

Matt
I wonder If with respect I may be allowed to alter that to
"The scalars are impressed upon" ?
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  #1770  
Old 12-27-2012, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Shylo,
My original setup used a standard motor and AGM batteries. I have had setups work with standard motors, but not for long... Only hours. The only long term setup I have been able to get to work without decreasing the voltage on the primaries has been with a pulsed motor and AGM batteries. You might try the one ohm coil across battery 3 and see what that does for you.

Dave
Hi Turion I was following this thread and tried the experiment too. What do you mean a pulsed motor? A Bedini type or a normal motor driven by a PWM?
Thanks
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