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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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  #1531  
Old 12-06-2012, 07:23 AM
penno64 penno64 is offline
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Hi Dave,

Nice to see you having a more consistant result.

I had the bright idea the other day to pull apart an UPS that had been
sitting here for the past ten years. ( I'm a hoarder, just can't help myself).

The two 12v 7Ah batteries seem to be good candidates for the bad battery.

They hold around 0.5v unloaded but loaded, drop directly to 0.

Using two other 12v 7Ah primary batteries, along with the MY016, my setup
shows primary battery voltage across the dead battey and will not startup
the motor.

Placeing a 5 watt lamp across the battery 3, we read around 17v at battery 3
and the spins. Removing the lamp, the motor stops and battery 3 voltage
rises to primary voltage.

I have tried an inductor is series but get no difference.

Wish I could get the primary bouncing voltage like you have.

Persist and hopefully the effect can be made to maintain.

p.s. Ampmeters in series show 0mA till the 5w lamp is connected. this
then rises to 400mA.

Penno
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  #1532  
Old 12-06-2012, 07:52 AM
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Turion Turion is online now
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penno,
That still sounds like it might be a good candidate as a bad battery. There are a couple things you can try.
1. The easiest is just hook it up and walk away. It might take 24 hours and then suddenly the motor will start. Or maybe not. If the battery is bad enough it could take days.....or never.
2. First, figure out which direction the motor wants to turn by using your light bulb connected to battery 3. Then spin the motor by hand without the light connected and see if that does it. Or if you have an electric drill with a hand chuck for quick release, put that on the motor shaft and use the drill to rotate it in the correct direction. If it starts to run on its own, grab the quick release, and the turning of the motor will release the shaft IF YOU HAVE THE MOTOR RUNNING IN THE CORRECT DIRECTION. (Which I believe is clockwise when the shaft of the motor is pointed directly at you) Be sure to check on that and reverse the wires if you need to.
3. Last resort,leave the light bulb connected FOR A WHILE to get it running. Put a load on the motor of some kind. A rubber belt around the shaft or anything that causes friction. If you have another motor you can connect shaft to shaft, that would be even better. Alternate between putting loads on the motor and loads on the shaft. The whole system works better when there is a load on the motor.

Pulsing the motor will give you better results. Matt posted a pulse circuit a while back and it works well.

Hope that helps.
Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 12-06-2012 at 07:58 AM.
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  #1533  
Old 12-06-2012, 08:09 AM
penno64 penno64 is offline
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Shot vid -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNK-iDpMtQY


Penno
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  #1534  
Old 12-06-2012, 11:44 AM
gene gene gene gene is offline
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Hi penno,

I tried your YT link, but it says the video is private.

Gene
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  #1535  
Old 12-06-2012, 12:39 PM
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Duncan Duncan is offline
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yeh Its real

Hi David a very small quite fast brushed motor arrived
12v DC Brushed Motor | eBay
as you know I am investigating a slightly different avenue. Which I wont go into here. I did have some extremely flat gel cells in the garage from a battery bike, I tried to bring these cells back to life with a Bedini SSG without any success a year or so ago. They have now been thrown in the corner of my garage for over 2 years.
I put your original circuit together and tried it David, Nothing I decided to pulse what was virtually a short across the “dud” battery. Within a minute Much to my surprise the motor started to turn.(beginners luck perhaps).very slowley but faster and faster
As you have already noted the system restores batteries at an alarming rate. Its worth throwing together for that alone! I couldn't lay my hands on a decent camera but here's a few shots taken with kiddies one I found in the drawer. So far this system of yours David has been running for 22 hours . As you know David I am rather more interested in the hows and whys. I've no doubt that all the observations on this thread are correct .. I’ve seen It myself now
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6...2/Photo002.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-e...2/Photo001.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-W...2/Photo004.jpg
my scope or the silly camera is not doing justice to to the spikes . I have to say David Its very difficult to believe this until you’ve see It with your own eye's
I now have it in mind to build a few bits of test gear to try and gain some control. Anyway I'm simply posting to infrom anyone sitting on the fence …. this is a viable system . All that Dave and Matt Luther and all the other guys are telling you actually is. Incidently david I then connected the two motors together I've tried to get a shot of the "dud" battery with this crap camera however beleive it or not thats frost starting to form on the battery case! I've heard of cold electricity but I've never seen such a clear example
https://picasaweb.google.com/1024132...05118461481474
The world needs this thing so how about doing a little bit of practical stuff to give Daves project a push? Both Matt and David have been very open and apart from giving the operation away totally could not give out more
Best wishes all
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  #1536  
Old 12-06-2012, 01:29 PM
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
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Hi Guy's, More people might get behind this and do replications if there was a
more clear description of what the claims are for the system.

What exactly is it that you guys are seeing as the main benefit of this system ?
If it is something the world needs then there must be something significant.

Are you guys interested in alternate explanations ? If a person was to replicate
the device, see the same thing happen but had a different explanation of the
cause, which did not involve free energy, would you at least be willing to accept
that that is the persons opinion without a big argument ? Some argument is
good, I accept that.

After all no one would want to spend the time to go to the trouble of
replicating something and give their explanation/opinion only to be ignored or
maybe worse.

Seems the replication is dead easy if there is a dead battery on hand.

I think I have a dead battery that has been sitting drained in a quad bike for
two years or so, if there is a clear claim, or list of claims I will do a replication
if the battery is suitable.

Cheers
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  #1537  
Old 12-06-2012, 02:11 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Right now the main thing is the motor can run (If everything is working) for indefinite period of time, because the primary batteries CHARGE instead of discharging.
So the goal is to make it stable and find that thing in the dead battery that can be replicated every time.
Here is Davids last video: 3BGS - YouTube

Of course new theories are welcome, but when its functioning it very clear what is happening. You can watch it all on a scope. If you can follow what you are seeing and know how to track the flow of power its plain as day the dead battery is reversing the polarity of the current coming into it, and discharging it back to the primaries, hence maintaining the dipole. Some where we are getting a small amount of extra energy to compensate loss.

You cannot use just any dead battery, it needs to be an AGM. The primary batteries seem to function better as well when they are AGM but its not as needed to see results. As far as we can tall the motor does better when pulsed.

Short of that it is dead easy.

Matt
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  #1538  
Old 12-06-2012, 02:14 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
Hi David a very small quite fast brushed motor arrived
12v DC Brushed Motor | eBay
as you know I am investigating a slightly different avenue. Which I wont go into here. I did have some extremely flat gel cells in the garage from a battery bike, I tried to bring these cells back to life with a Bedini SSG without any success a year or so ago. They have now been thrown in the corner of my garage for over 2 years.
I put your original circuit together and tried it David, Nothing I decided to pulse what was virtually a short across the “dud” battery. Within a minute Much to my surprise the motor started to turn.(beginners luck perhaps).very slowley but faster and faster
As you have already noted the system restores batteries at an alarming rate. Its worth throwing together for that alone! I couldn't lay my hands on a decent camera but here's a few shots taken with kiddies one I found in the drawer. So far this system of yours David has been running for 22 hours . As you know David I am rather more interested in the hows and whys. I've no doubt that all the observations on this thread are correct .. I’ve seen It myself now
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6...2/Photo002.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-e...2/Photo001.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-W...2/Photo004.jpg
my scope or the silly camera is not doing justice to to the spikes . I have to say David Its very difficult to believe this until you’ve see It with your own eye's
I now have it in mind to build a few bits of test gear to try and gain some control. Anyway I'm simply posting to infrom anyone sitting on the fence …. this is a viable system . All that Dave and Matt Luther and all the other guys are telling you actually is. Incidently david I then connected the two motors together I've tried to get a shot of the "dud" battery with this crap camera however beleive it or not thats frost starting to form on the battery case! I've heard of cold electricity but I've never seen such a clear example
https://picasaweb.google.com/1024132...05118461481474
The world needs this thing so how about doing a little bit of practical stuff to give Daves project a push? Both Matt and David have been very open and apart from giving the operation away totally could not give out more
Best wishes all
One thing no one has mentioned although they have mentioned many times rejuvenating factor of this setup, is the fact that you are running 24 volt into a 12 volt cell.
Have you ever used a 24 volt monopole, SSG to charge or fix a 12 volt battery.
If you haven't your missing out.

Matt
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  #1539  
Old 12-06-2012, 02:32 PM
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Turion Turion is online now
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penno,
Tried to watch the video, but it says it is private and asks for a login.
Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 12-06-2012 at 05:24 PM.
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  #1540  
Old 12-06-2012, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmhand View Post
Hi Guy's, More people might get behind this and do replications if there was a
more clear description of what the claims are for the system.

What exactly is it that you guys are seeing as the main benefit of this system ?
If it is something the world needs then there must be something significant.

Are you guys interested in alternate explanations ? If a person was to replicate
the device, see the same thing happen but had a different explanation of the
cause, which did not involve free energy, would you at least be willing to accept
that that is the persons opinion without a big argument ? Some argument is
good, I accept that.

After all no one would want to spend the time to go to the trouble of
replicating something and give their explanation/opinion only to be ignored or
maybe worse.

Seems the replication is dead easy if there is a dead battery on hand.

I think I have a dead battery that has been sitting drained in a quad bike for
two years or so, if there is a clear claim, or list of claims I will do a replication
if the battery is suitable.

Cheers
if it restores batteries (and it does) on that count alone ... Its huge
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  #1541  
Old 12-06-2012, 03:54 PM
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Turion Turion is online now
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Guys,
I am not the sharpest pencil in the box when it comes to electrical circuits and understanding them, but one thing about me is I build, and build, and build, and read and read and read.

I came across an old video I am going to post the link to here. It discusses waves, the bounce back that occurs with waves, and how they are affected by impedance, load, etc. I can't help but feel like the answer to what we are searching for has to do with pulsing a circuit and controlling the impedance and the load at the instant of that pulse and directly after. I feel like the answer is in this video somewhere. Pay particular attention to the segment that begins around the 16 minute mark, because that begins a section which ends with the formula for "unity." If there is a formula for unity, then there is a formula for OVER unity. And maybe the answer lies in this video. Some of you who are much sharper than me may be able to see it. I am going to watch this thing over and over until I understand how to get there from here.

I hope this helps. If nothing else, it helped me to understand a whole lot about waves and the associated math. And math was definitely my worst subject. I never got beyond algebra.

AT&T Archives: Similiarities of Wave Behavior (Bonus Edition) - YouTube

Dave
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  #1542  
Old 12-06-2012, 04:20 PM
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Farmhand,
In my very first post on this site I said I didn't want to make claims, because if I had told people what this system did without them trying it for themselves and seeing SOMETHING, they would think I was a big fraud, and it was important to me that folks tried this for themselves. I still won't make any claims, but I can sure give you some examples.

I ran my initial system for over several weeks, using the same two batteries and the same dead battery, without EVER recharging my primaries. They remained charged until the day I took the setup apart to go to California to show it to a patent attorney, and after that it didn't work.

During that time I ran the setup a minimum of 14 hours a day, running loads off an inverter connected to battery 3, including a shop vac, lights, an electric drill, a radio, a television, my small refrigerator, etc. As long as I did not exceed the output of the inverter, all went well. In order to run the inverter, I had to BALANCE the system with a load on the motor. I used a mechanical friction load, which means that 50% of the potential power generated by this setup was wasted as friction just to have a load on the motor to balance against the load on the inverter. Had I hooked the motor to a generator, the same goal would have been accomplished and I would have had much more power to show for it. You can keep increasing the load on battery three as long as you balance it with the load on the motor, until you reach the LIMIT of your motor, but then you have to watch out because batteries 1 and 2 start charging through the roof. I also hooked it to the 18 battery bank my dad has connected to his solar setup. Those batteries were hooked to battery 3 in parallel. They had been discharged the previous afternoon and evening and were in need of a charge, so first thing in the morning we hooked them up. I don't know and did not record the voltages on the individual batteries, but they were too low to power the 12 volt inverter connected to his system that provides power to his house. In less than an hour all 18 batteries were at full charge and this blew my dad's mind.

I have restored countless batteries that have been turned in at the local auto parts store and at the local Batteries+ because they were tested as "dead," even when my monopole 5 was unable to restore them. As Matt said, this may have been a function of using 24 volts on this setup as opposed to the 12 volts of the monopole 5, but my assumption was that the spikes were what accomplished the restoration, and I didn't realize they would be different just because of the voltage.

This is a MUCH simpler battery restoration system than the monopole. Almost anyone can do it. Matt is correct that AWG work best.

So what am I claiming? I guess I am claiming that we have no idea of the upper potential of this setup.
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Last edited by Turion; 12-06-2012 at 05:00 PM.
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  #1543  
Old 12-06-2012, 04:24 PM
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I just love farmhand gettring involved (the fireman)let the game start
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  #1544  
Old 12-06-2012, 04:52 PM
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Detractors, once converted, make the best converts.

Farmhand, Matt explains everything that happens in the system in terms of known electrical theory, and just on the basis of known electrical theory it is a viable setup. But I truly believe I have seen this setup put out far more power than is possible from just two good batteries. In the order of several magnitudes more. Where that power comes from I have no idea, but I believe it is there none the less. But even if I was hallucinating, let us say no extraordinary power is produced, but you get to run your motor for free without drawing down on the primaries. Is that enough for you? Hook that motor to a generator and balance this with a load on battery three, and what have you got? The answer, that's what.

Edit: I keep editing these posts as I think of things I want to communicate.
Thee is a direct relationship between the voltage on batt 3 and the load on the motor. Increase the load on the motor and the voltage on batt 3 goes up. Increase the load on batt 3 and the motor speeds up. This happens WITHOUT affecting the voltages on the primaries when the setup is working correctly!!!!!

I used to think of it as a freaking black hole of energy with two opposite doors and whatever energy you pulled out one side was allowed out the other side. I know that isn't scientific and makes no sense, but that energy comes from somewhere. If you have a seup running, try increasing the load on the motor and see what happens to batt 3 voltage. Then increase the load on batt three and see what happens to the motor. Then observe your primaries. If the voltage isn't coming from THEM, where is it coming from.

Dave
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  #1545  
Old 12-06-2012, 06:21 PM
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
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Well I just mainly was asking what the main benefit was, looks like the claim is
the primary batteries are charging. So the dead battery must be an AGM ?

See this is what I was dubious about you'll find people very reluctant to get
involved if you say you already know exactly what is going on.

So there is no want of any replications ? Because for that there needs to be
some kind of basic circuit.

So I'll just go ahead and do my own thing, my dead battery is a flooded cell.

I already have a theory of what is going on but it just a theory and I need
evidence to justify it.

Is there a basic circuit or is it still changing with development ? It's fair
enough if it is.

Anyway I'll do my experiments and see what happens, if I'm not wanted to
post my findings and theory to explain them here so be it I can do it elsewhere.

Duncan you are full of wise cracks aren't you, I am offering to do experiments
and provide data and from what I can deduce from your comment you are of
the opinion that I have an agenda to hose down the thread or something. I
have no such intention, my agenda is to investigate OU claims in case any
actually are, then I can promote them as such. I won't be promoting anyone
elses claims of OU until such time as I see it on my bench exhibiting over
100% efficiency. In my opinion no one should unless they can do it.

You're entitled to your opinion, so why not get it all off your chest now,
this is exactly why you won't get anyone to replicate except "yes men"
because if the wrong opinion or finding is given the experimenter is accused of
being a oil company shill or some thing. From Duncan it starts immediately.

I don't expect him to change and I do not wish to get into an argument with
such a petty person. So I may as well forget about trying to contribute here.

I'll post the results to "my" experiment elsewhere with no mention of "The"
"Three Battery Generating System", But it will be a three battery system.

Seems to me with three batteries in a system even if two were charging a bit
it need not be OU.

As I have said before Duncan I don't reject the idea of extra energy entering
a system to make it over 100% efficient, that is an assumption I think you
made, and being so I don't think it would be prudent to not investigate some
claims. If my findings don't agree with other peoples findings then so be it.

I'm offering to do the experiment and offer my opinion on what is happening.
All I need to do that is a basic circuit and an indication of the effects people
are seeing. If that is not wanted then fair enough, it's David's thread.

I wish you all the best of luck in your experiments including Duncan, even
though he may think I am evil incarnate.

Cheers
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Last edited by Farmhand; 12-06-2012 at 06:23 PM.
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  #1546  
Old 12-06-2012, 07:13 PM
penno64 penno64 is offline
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Sorry guys,

3BGS - YouTube

I will eventually learn how to use youtube correctly.

Penno
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  #1547  
Old 12-06-2012, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmhand View Post
Well I just mainly was asking what the main benefit was, looks like the claim is
the primary batteries are charging. So the dead battery must be an AGM ?

See this is what I was dubious about you'll find people very reluctant to get
involved if you say you already know exactly what is going on.

So there is no want of any replications ? Because for that there needs to be
some kind of basic circuit.

So I'll just go ahead and do my own thing, my dead battery is a flooded cell.

I already have a theory of what is going on but it just a theory and I need
evidence to justify it.

Is there a basic circuit or is it still changing with development ? It's fair
enough if it is.

Anyway I'll do my experiments and see what happens, if I'm not wanted to
post my findings and theory to explain them here so be it I can do it elsewhere.

Duncan you are full of wise cracks aren't you, I am offering to do experiments
and provide data and from what I can deduce from your comment you are of
the opinion that I have an agenda to hose down the thread or something. I
have no such intention, my agenda is to investigate OU claims in case any
actually are, then I can promote them as such. I won't be promoting anyone
elses claims of OU until such time as I see it on my bench exhibiting over
100% efficiency. In my opinion no one should unless they can do it.

You're entitled to your opinion, so why not get it all off your chest now,
this is exactly why you won't get anyone to replicate except "yes men"
because if the wrong opinion or finding is given the experimenter is accused of
being a oil company shill or some thing. From Duncan it starts immediately.

I don't expect him to change and I do not wish to get into an argument with
such a petty person. So I may as well forget about trying to contribute here.

I'll post the results to "my" experiment elsewhere with no mention of "The"
"Three Battery Generating System", But it will be a three battery system.

Seems to me with three batteries in a system even if two were charging a bit
it need not be OU.

As I have said before Duncan I don't reject the idea of extra energy entering
a system to make it over 100% efficient, that is an assumption I think you
made, and being so I don't think it would be prudent to not investigate some
claims. If my findings don't agree with other peoples findings then so be it.

I'm offering to do the experiment and offer my opinion on what is happening.
All I need to do that is a basic circuit and an indication of the effects people
are seeing. If that is not wanted then fair enough, it's David's thread.

I wish you all the best of luck in your experiments including Duncan, even
though he may think I am evil incarnate.

Cheers
evil incarnate? no just a nit wit!--- do the stuff
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  #1548  
Old 12-06-2012, 07:40 PM
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Hi Farmhand,

I want to encourage you to give it a try. If you can find the right "dead" battery I am sure you will be surprised at the results. I have been working with Matt and Dave on this from the beginning of this thread. Not all bad batteries will give you the results we are trying to get. I did have one that gave me great results for a while. I was able to run the scooter motor driving a 90 volt dc motor as a generator which was lighting a 6 watt 120 volt bulb. This was my primary motor. In addition I had an inverter connected to my "dead" battery driving a 120 volt 100 watt bulb. This ran for several hours and the primary battery voltage only dropped a few hundredths of a volt. Not several tenths of a volt like it should have. I was using the small lawn and garden tractor type batteries. I think they are called a U1 size. Then when my "dead" battery started to take a charge and act normal the "magic" was gone and the primary batteries started to lose charge as they normally would under this kind of load.

Please read Dave's first post very carefully as he describes how to tell if you have a good candidate for the "dead" battery and also pay close attention to how to get your system adjusted into the "zone" as Dave calls it. Both of these requirements are a must if you hope to see anything special about this setup. I went through several "dead" batteries before I found one that gave me the proper response.

Later,
Carroll
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  #1549  
Old 12-06-2012, 08:06 PM
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Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
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OK secound chance!

You can either replace the third battery with a salt bridge or connect the salt bridge in series with the third battery, all depends on what you want to do.

Making a salt bridge:- place acetic acid "vinigar" in a jar and add sodium hydroxide to it a little at a time untill no more dissolves (heat will be generated).
Once you have done this place two stainless plates in the salt and connect them like you would the third battery or in series as I have said before.

Now see what happens "sorry no gas produced here".

You will find your motor runs and if you have put the third battery in series this will charge, BUT by dilluting the salt bridge you can control the charge

good experimenting

Mike

P.S. read about cells on my web site, link in my Centraflow thread.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:50 PM
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Farmhand,
The circuit and process is outlined in the first post. Try to follow the steps as closely as possible. I set it up so you could SEE some of the things we are seeing if you do it correctly. Once you have it up and running, how long the charging of the primaries will occur depends entirely on your bad battery. Keep a small load on it to keep it from charging too fast.

Since then we have tried a VARIETY of things, but no circuit that is better than the original...at least that has been disclosed here. We are in the process of testing something right now that looks incredibly promising, and I have had run after successful run with it. Only sometimes my results were a little off from what I was expecting. This morning I found a short in my pulse motor I built, so that explains my goofy results and made me VERY happy. I just tore it completely apart and am rewinding it. If you pulse your standard motor you will get better results. If you build a pulse motor you will get better results.

Other than that, try to keep batt 3 from charging. MJN has just suggested a method for that I will have to try this evening if I can run down some sodium hydroxide!!
Edit: Had to order some. Got 8 lbs for $12.00. Like I said, I will spend the money to try and make this happen. This stuff is poison, so buyer beware.

Michael John Nunnerley
Thanks for the info. I will give that a try and report on the results. Had to order it so it may be a while before I report in.


Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 12-06-2012 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:20 PM
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Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
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Farmhand,
The circuit and process is outlined in the first post. Try to follow the steps as closely as possible. I set it up so you could SEE some of the things we are seeing if you do it correctly. Once you have it up and running, how long the charging of the primaries will occur depends entirely on your bad battery. Keep a small load on it to keep it from charging too fast.

Since then we have tried a VARIETY of things, but no circuit that is better than the original...at least that has been disclosed here. We are in the process of testing something right now that looks incredibly promising, and I have had run after successful run with it. Only sometimes my results were a little off from what I was expecting. This morning I found a short in my pulse motor I built, so that explains my goofy results and made me VERY happy. I just tore it completely apart and am rewinding it. If you pulse your standard motor you will get better results. If you build a pulse motor you will get better results.

Other than that, try to keep batt 3 from charging. MJN has just suggested a method for that I will have to try this evening if I can run down some sodium hydroxide!!
Edit: Had to order some. Got 8 lbs for $12.00. Like I said, I will spend the money to try and make this happen. This stuff is poison, so buyer beware.

Dave
When mixed it becomes neutral salt, alkaline and acid mixed, but yes sodium hydroxide on its own is nasty. You can use potasium hydroxide also.

What you will be making is a salt bridge, a type of home made battery, I say type as it works like a battery being charged but never charges.

I have tried this before I posted, if used on its own without battery three then it will show around 1v when running. I have set up here with just one primary battery 12v LA and nicads to the value of 4.8v, with the salt bridge I can keep the nicads at around there full charge without going over, run the motor, a capstan drive motor, and the LA 12v charging, 12.48v resting and 12.61v after 1hr running and 15min resting.

I need to put the scope on it and also check amp draw. What it seems and I think it is, is all in physical difference in chemistry of what happens to electrons, and the difference at the cathodes between charging and discharging "think about it", oxidation and reduction, electrons move in different directions. You also have the motor effect as well and that is why I need to scope it when I have time.

Mike
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:46 PM
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I forgot to say, I do a similar thing with electrolysis, I use the electrons more than once before they are lost, that is why I think I know what is happening

Mike
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:30 AM
shylo shylo is offline
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Hi All ,I do alot of different exp. ,nothing worth reporting,but I am now looking into the brushes of the dc motor.
They will stay the same for awhile, but with continued use they change..
I have my homemade commuter ,still testing ,but with different adjustments I can get more voltage
,at a certian rpm Normally you get a specific amount of voltage,
I believe it has to do with the arcing in the brushes??
Perhaps it opens up a way for the universal energy to come through(most people here call it riadant)
shylo
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:42 AM
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You can either replace the third battery with a salt bridge or connect the salt bridge in series with the third battery, all depends on what you want to do.

Making a salt bridge:- place acetic acid "vinigar" in a jar and add sodium hydroxide to it a little at a time untill no more dissolves (heat will be generated).
Once you have done this place two stainless plates in the salt and connect them like you would the third battery or in series as I have said before.

Now see what happens "sorry no gas produced here".

You will find your motor runs and if you have put the third battery in series this will charge, BUT by dilluting the salt bridge you can control the charge

good experimenting

Mike

P.S. read about cells on my web site, link in my Centraflow thread.
That kind makes sense. I'll give it try.

Aren't most salt bridges made from AGAR or Gelatin or something like that. I used to have recipe for them.

I made a battery once with a piece of copper pipe a zinc coated pipe and salt bridge located between the 2. Filled the pipes up with water. It was good for 2 volt at or about 200 ma until the zinc was gone on the pipe. The iron with out the zinc gave .7 volt.

Anyway I got Stainless I'll give it a shot. The scope will tell me if it works or not.

Matt
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:32 AM
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
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I won't be participating in a thread where name calling is ok, Simple as that, I
have to much dignity to be called names and allow it to happen without
responding. I'll be posting in Carroll's thread for open discussions. Unless I get an
apology from Duncan and an assurance he will desist with the childish name
calling. No skin off my nose.

I've already done some experimenting in this area and I have a provisional theory.

Good luck.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:18 AM
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fair enough Farmhand sorry bud ... yeh please give it a shot and see what you get
This seems to be the circuit that started it all

and its the one I used. there's different things going on but thats the starting point
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:00 PM
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boguslaw boguslaw is online now
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Duncan


Nice schematic. Here you can easily see what is going on... If two source batteries should be constantly charged or keep in phase of balance , meaning that after disconnection from load they can recharge themselves to the same voltage as original, then bad battery must be keep on "charged" state of higher voltage then those two in series. Now the problem is there has to be closed path to maintain motor running .... and bad battery is the problem to get it running smoothly. Remember one tip : AMPS. Sorry, I do not want more for somebody to get provisional patent, because it still slightly overlap on my current work (even if I hate mechanical devices and work on pure solid state, mechanical is sometimes the only way to get things running )
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:47 PM
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fair enough Farmhand sorry bud ... yeh please give it a shot and see what you get
This seems to be the circuit that started it all

and its the one I used. there's different things going on but thats the starting point
If you are currently running that system you should be able to see an effect we talked about a while back.
Turn that Switch On then off and watch the voltage in your primaries. The balancing load will have to have some resistance.
Mine usually POPS, or come up over the current voltage in the primary.

See if it happens for ya, and give me your take on it if you do not mind.

Matt
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Last edited by Matthew Jones; 12-07-2012 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:54 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
Duncan


Nice schematic. Here you can easily see what is going on... If two source batteries should be constantly charged or keep in phase of balance , meaning that after disconnection from load they can recharge themselves to the same voltage as original, then bad battery must be keep on "charged" state of higher voltage then those two in series. Now the problem is there has to be closed path to maintain motor running .... and bad battery is the problem to get it running smoothly. Remember one tip : AMPS. Sorry, I do not want more for somebody to get provisional patent, because it still slightly overlap on my current work (even if I hate mechanical devices and work on pure solid state, mechanical is sometimes the only way to get things running )

HUH??? You lost me.... Your not giving advice because David was may get a provisional patent someday if this thing ever functions.
Then why even throw confusing statements into the mix???

Matt
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:39 PM
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Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
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salt brige can be any chemical salt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
That kind makes sense. I'll give it try.

Aren't most salt bridges made from AGAR or Gelatin or something like that. I used to have recipe for them.

I made a battery once with a piece of copper pipe a zinc coated pipe and salt bridge located between the 2. Filled the pipes up with water. It was good for 2 volt at or about 200 ma until the zinc was gone on the pipe. The iron with out the zinc gave .7 volt.

Anyway I got Stainless I'll give it a shot. The scope will tell me if it works or not.

Matt
Here you do not want to make a battery "it will charge ". What is needed as requested by Turion, is a sudo battery which does not charge but acts like a battery on charge. A salt bridge in this situation "not all situations" will do just that, both plates are NEARLY negative cathodes but there is an ionic conduction through the salt bridge and there WILL be a potencial difference albeit small 1-2v, this is your control so as not to over charge the battery 3. In my case using nicads 4.8v, they would reach over 7v in secounds and heat up fast, but with the control I can keep them at 4.8-5v and cool. It is mostly in battery chemistry I think, as you see nicads can be used as well, not just LA's.

As you control the voltage in bat 3 you can see the motor change speed, and by loading the motor your bat 3 will rise in voltage. The important thing is to maintain a wide potencial difference between your drive battery and bat 3.

Measure the voltage accross the salt bridge when running and vary the load on the motor, you will see the voltage on the salt bridge change, going up with more load. What is needed is at the same time to measure current from drive battery to motor and salt bridge to drive battery. Now remember the salt bridge is a ghost battery and as so becomes an integral part of the drive battery "ALL GOOD STUFF THIS FOR NOW AND FUTURE EXPERIMENTING", you now will be measuring what is happening inside the drive battery "wow!". This is a little unorthodox "it is my invention" but works .

If you require more info, just ask.

Mike
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